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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:15:00 -
[241] - Quote
Steve4c wrote: stop trying to compensate gallente ships and address the real issue here.
Blasters optimal & falloff is riddiculously weak!
This is the point. |
TL Castiel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:16:00 -
[242] - Quote
Xenial Jesse Taalo wrote:Not much of a hybrids buff really when they go and buff T2 rockets, missiles and Hail at the same time.
Ohh my God.. At the beginning there was Hail with tracking penalty and range penalty... You wanna do that 900 DPS in your Hurricane? Sure get in the face of the other as if you had blasters but guess what! Make hurricanes and AC plantforms better compared to everything else: remove tracking penalty at first and then remove range penalty!
Boost hybrid while boosting AC-s so that hybrid boost will not worth xxxx |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
10
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:17:00 -
[243] - Quote
Insane Randomness wrote:So people seem to be missreading this, so I'll elaborate. This is the boost to JUST the weapons and ammo. They decided t start giving us the buff's to these GUNS first, not the ships. Stay tuned for hybrid starship balancing, as well, hopefully.
Considering this buff is 3-4 years in the making, don't blame people for not believing a ship change will follow if not anounced.
Quote:Too those whom say "The speed boost isn't enough" let me elaborate on this as well. The Gallente are friends wityh the matari, and as such, their ships tend to have a decent speed next to amarrian or caldari ships. This is for a reason. A +10 m/s boost too speed translates to an extra 25 m/s with decent skills in afterburner, and an extra 250m/s with an MWD. Those whom say that there should have not been a boost too speed because of tracking are daft. Since when, in pvp, do you leave your MWD on all the time? I was under the impression that you use an afterburner all the time, at which point your new guns will certainly be able to track, or plus your mwd to get within range and then pound the **** out of them.
no, you run the MWD on a kiting fleet all the time. In a BC/BS your sig radius is already huge and you're focusing on optimal and alpha. This applies to skirmishes also, and even vaga gangs.
Quote:Finally, too the dude whom said the eagle is useless because at long range it's DPS is low. No dip sherlock, at long range, every weapons DPS is going to be low, except for cruise missiles, whom I could get off three volleies and warp out before it hits me. The railgun has the second longest range in game, next too cruise missiles, and as such, will have one of the lowest DPS at range. Try useing shorter range, 160km is a bit too much. 100km will do you good, and if you focus on your skills and fittings I'll bet you could double your firepower. If not you could at least hit 350. and if you wanted to go short range, with an eagle I'll bet 30km and 450 DPS is possible now.
ok, you take your fleet of eagles at 100km to my fleet of canes. let's see how much damage you do before I burn 15km-20km and start taking you out one by one. I'll give you a clue- it will take seconds.
Quote:I believe that this is good for the hybrid turret ships whom were fine the way they are, if not for the lack of power inthe guns, IE Megathron, Dominix, Brutix, Thorax, Incursus.
hybrids were fine? really?
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Madner Kami
Durendal Ascending Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
9
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:18:00 -
[244] - Quote
Archetype 66 wrote:Archetype 66 wrote:All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier
How does it work ? I'm not comfortable with turret formulas and how bonus works (Turret + Skills + Ship Bonus+ Riggs + Implants etc...)* But does a +10% to Damage modifier means mandatory +10% DPS...I'm not sure about that and I feel that it can be more...
* I had read an excelent post about how bonus work and how they apply (Skills > Riggs with penality or not etc..) but I can't find it anymore. Anyone can link it or PM it to me. Tvm ! Re bump...
In a nutshell: It's a straight +10% to the damage modifier of a weapon (each volley will do 10% more damage per shot).
DPS = Damage per Time (here: in seconds) Time = Refire Time of the weapon (including skills or ship bonuses) Damage = Damage value of the used ammo multiplied with the Damage Modifier of the Weapon Damage of the used Ammo = combined damage listed on a slug's stats Damage Modifier of the Weapon = Mutliplier listed in a weapon's stats (including skills and ship bonuses)
DPS = Damage (ammo stat) * Damage Multipler (weapon stat) / Refire Time (weapon stat) |
Tashanaka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
4
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:24:00 -
[245] - Quote
Insane Randomness wrote:So people seem to be missreading this, so I'll elaborate. This is the boost to JUST the weapons and ammo. They decided t start giving us the buff's to these GUNS first, not the ships. Stay tuned for hybrid starship balancing, as well, hopefully....
Stay tuned?! It only took CCP how many years to get around to it.
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Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:25:00 -
[246] - Quote
Can I ask how you came to the figure of 20% for the tracking boost?
I ask as, in the context of the web changes you refer to (90% --> 60%, representing a 400% change to potential target speeds under webbing), the proposed boost seems a bit 'meh'.
Also one thing that is mentioned a lot is damage; have you ever considered something such as boosting the 'overload' damage for blasters - i.e. you might not make it into the fight, but if you by some miracle get within optimal, you can shunt everything into the guns for a brief period to overwhelm a target.
War-Machine |
Illectroculus Defined
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:25:00 -
[247] - Quote
Glad to see hybrids getting some love, before I really understood the game I trained them, and then when I got in a Rokh I loved that ship so much I just needed to get T2 rails on it, because flying a cool looking ship makes up for the better weapons systems on other, uglier ships.
Anyway the Rokh is still disadvantaged in a more general way, it still gets limited by the 250km hard limit on locking range, sure nobody build snipers for PVP, but this hard 250km range is another place where we bump up against random arbitrary limits on the sandbox. Is it ever going to be possible to remove this limit for this and every other ship? |
KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
32
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:26:00 -
[248] - Quote
I love all the armchair video game designers in this thread. You don't know exactly how the changes will play out, and you're already calling for more buffs.
All we have is numbers. When we try these numbers out for real (and once metagame settles), THEN we'll know if anything else needs changing. Not until.
+1 for what looks like a solid set of changes CCP. Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade SLAPD Director |
Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
21
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:30:00 -
[249] - Quote
Interesting.
Have you considered removing the 249 km lock range limit. Assuming removing it won't do anything silly, like breaking research slots in NPC stations, or turning all text on the forum green, I can't really see any reason for keeping the range. |
FlameGlow
Avalon Guards Gypsy Band
14
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:31:00 -
[250] - Quote
-12% PG is still not enough for medium rails to fit well
Also Hail ammo boost WTF???? It already had less penalties than void and conflagration(25% capacitor use for 5% tracking penalty) and plan is to lift the only penalty that matters - falloff?
Illwill Bill wrote:Interesting.
Have you considered removing the 249 km lock range limit. Assuming removing it won't do anything silly, like breaking research slots in NPC stations, or turning all text on the forum green, I can't really see any reason for keeping the range.
With scan being so easy it won't help anything |
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Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:33:00 -
[251] - Quote
Blaster need more changes for better working.
At least +50% optimal (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 4.5km optimal with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills) and at least +25% faloff (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 13km faloff with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills)
After this changes would be 6.75km optimal, with 16.25km falloff. (antimatter)
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Schwester Minotaur
Tobruk Heavy Industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:34:00 -
[252] - Quote
Hi, i am from Germany, so please do not focus on my language :).
I also love the Rokh, but the bonus or better changes here - does not recognize that ship.
The Caldari built the Rokh to have a even Hybrid Platform against the gallente. And as the caldari are militants, they focused on sniper range - to get their additional bonus. So the Rokh have the +optimal Range bonus.
So why - it is hardcaped by 250km, even the Rokh is able to sniper on 320km+ ?.
You really should remove this hardcap, or gain the hardcap for that ship to make it even.
Greetings
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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
32
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:36:00 -
[253] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:Blaster need more changes for better working.
At least +50% optimal (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 4.5km optimal with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills) and at least +25% faloff (mega with t2 neutron guns have now 13km faloff with antimatter ammo and lvl5 skills)
After this changes would be 6.75km optimal, with 16.25km falloff. (antimatter)
Stop trying to make blasters like autocannons. They're -NOT- autocannons.
Autocannons = Assault Rifles. Blasters = Shotguns. Huge damage at zero range. Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade SLAPD Director |
David Xavier
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:38:00 -
[254] - Quote
Wu Phat wrote:The Dominix will still not benefit from the buff as its limp **** power grid holds it back from being an awesome cheap solo or buffer gank/tank ship. Was hoping to fit a full rack of large neutron II's with buffer fit or large electron II's and double rep, double cap injection with this expansion, but thatGÇÖs not going to happen.
Actually I would love to see the Dominix get it's 6th high slot turned into an utility high slot, and get some extra PG in exchange, but I am afraid that is a pipe dream.
Back to topic, some update if any of the ideas posted in this thread are being considered or not. |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:38:00 -
[255] - Quote
While you are fixing things everybody said you would never fix, how about you fix the tech 3 subsystems for the Proteus.
The drone subsystem should be able to fit Heavy Drones and the bonus to drone damage should be larger otherwise nobody is going to use it.
The Hybrid propulsion armature should get buffed too because that is the one I use for missions and even with my skills capped I find it's damage lacking. Maybe give it an extra turret slot, The art on the ship already reflects the capability to use the maximum of 8 turrets. Why not make the game play reflect that as well?
Hybrid Blasters are the Sawed Off Shotguns of eve online. They are Designed to be HIGH DAMAGE low range. I do think that the damage could be tweaked a bit.
Consider the following... You have a pilot with all skills at 5
A single tech 2 medium drone with ship bonuses does more damage in 1 hit Than A single tech 2 medium Hybrid Blaster with ship bonuses and tech 2 ammo
Should something like a drone be doing more damage then a single blaster?
tl:dr Good job CCP now just fix subsystems and hybrid damage needs a buff.
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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
32
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:40:00 -
[256] - Quote
Wu Phat wrote:The Dominix will still not benefit from the buff as its limp **** power grid holds it back from being an awesome cheap solo or buffer gank/tank ship. Was hoping to fit a full rack of large neutron II's with buffer fit or large electron II's and double rep, double cap injection with this expansion, but thatGÇÖs not going to happen.
What? The Dominix is a fantastically versatile ship, in Solo and as a Gank/Tank with sentries. Why don't you try flying the ship? Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade SLAPD Director |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
11
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:40:00 -
[257] - Quote
Schwester Minotaur wrote:Hi, i am from Germany, so please do not focus on my language :).
I also love the Rokh, but the bonus or better changes here - does not recognize that ship.
The Caldari built the Rokh to have a even Hybrid Platform against the gallente. And as the caldari are militants, they focused on sniper range - to get their additional bonus. So the Rokh have the +optimal Range bonus.
So why - it is hardcaped by 250km, even the Rokh is able to sniper on 320km+ ?.
You really should remove this hardcap, or gain the hardcap for that ship to make it even.
Greetings
It doesn't matter. Anything over 150km and an on-grid prober will give an opponent a warpin at optimal. Sniping is dead in skirmish/fleet warfare right now.
Sure, you can sit 240km at a gate, have tackle on the gate, and snipe small groups but you might as well have a cane, mael, or tempest at closer range for more DPS.
The problem isn't that the Rokh (or Eagle) is a bad ship, it's just that for what it does, every other ship does its job BETTER. |
Naso Gomez
Astral Edge
3
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:41:00 -
[258] - Quote
I currently fly Gallente with Large Hybrid 5, and I will still be making the switch to Minmatar Projectiles with these proposed changes.
There's just no point of using a ship/weapon system that is clearly inferior to another. |
Alex Harumichi
Gradient Electus Matari
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:43:00 -
[259] - Quote
KFenn wrote: Stop trying to make blasters like autocannons. They're -NOT- autocannons.
Autocannons = Assault Rifles. Blasters = Shotguns. Huge damage at zero range.
Agree on this. Problem is, when talking about medium and large blasters:
1) The ships need to be fast and nimble enough to be able to apply that zero range damage effectively. They aren't.
2) The damage that blasters do when in their optimal needs to be large enough to compensate for their tiny operational envelope. It isn't.
ACs are strictly better than blasters in almost all situations (talking about actual pvp here, not laboratory conditions), even more so considering the hulls that use them are also significantly faster than blaster hulls. This buff, unfortunately, does not change that equation (especially since it also contains a huge AC buff, which I see no reason for). |
adopt
We Need A Home
93
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:44:00 -
[260] - Quote
All blaster turrets: +10% to Tracking speed All blaster turrets: +20% to Falloff
All railgun turrets: +10% to Damage modifier All railgun turrets: +10% to Tracking speed
Suddenly my Hurricane can have a real 1v1 vs a Brutix Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled. |
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
4
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:48:00 -
[261] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Can I ask how you came to the figure of 20% for the tracking boost?
I ask as, in the context of the web changes you refer to (90% --> 60%, representing a 400% change to potential target speeds under webbing), the proposed boost seems a bit 'meh'.
Also one thing that is mentioned a lot is damage; have you ever considered something such as boosting the 'overload' damage for blasters - i.e. you might not make it into the fight, but if you by some miracle get within optimal, you can shunt everything into the guns for a brief period to overwhelm a target.
I like this variation as well.
Like I stated previously, IMHO the stated boost in OP is in the right direction, but at least the blaster boost is too little.
So, either do
A) 10-20% straight damage boost to blasters in addition to the tracking boost
or
B) 5-10% straight damage boost and 20-30% overload damage boost
Numbers might obviously need tweaking but that would indeed make the game so much more exciting to play!
That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to a *Slight* falloff boost to blasters either, though I'd still prefer for them to retain their unique identity as close range face melting instead of just being cap using ACs... (if they have the DPS for the job that is) |
Kumq uat
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
27
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:50:00 -
[262] - Quote
This is not bad but I believe Blasters still need some raw dps boost. There were numbers floating around somewhere but the basics were with blasters you only had a few percentage points different in damage between AC and blasters with not near the range or the ability to select damage type. They need to be boosted back into face melters so they are worth going in at 2km and frying people. |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:50:00 -
[263] - Quote
KFenn wrote:I love all the armchair video game designers in this thread. You don't know exactly how the changes will play out, and you're already calling for more buffs.
Let me anaologize for you: Say rails are a car with square wheels and projectiles are a car with round wheels. The engineers come to you heralding their vision for the former car: A new spoiler, carbon-fiber hood, and superior exhaust system. You stare blankly at the square wheels, wondering how that fundamental flaw could be overlooked.
KFenn wrote: All we have is numbers. When we try these numbers out for real (and once metagame settles), THEN we'll know if anything else needs changing. Not until.
I think we've been over the "lay back and take it," defense. They want out feedback, not submission.
KFenn wrote: +1 for what looks like a solid set of changes CCP.
I agree, they're on the right track, but if you're going to shout down anyone saying "this isn't enough," you're clearly out of touch with the obvious flaws hybrids have dealt with for years. |
Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
5
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:51:00 -
[264] - Quote
TL Castiel wrote:Hybrid will still suck! Hybrid might be a little bit better for PVP but not because of the hybrid boost but because of the hybrid platform boosts (ships). I have created a little image here to demonstrate what I mean: Currently the DPS output on the Marauders are as follows for PvE: http://i43.tinypic.com/s4xwmb.jpgKronos: Green Vargur: Red Paladin: Blue Golem: Light blue
Your Kronos fit needs improving, imo.
Heres mine
Still... Im hoping for CCP to look at the T1 hybrid charges. Boost Hybrids by giving them a reason to reload other than antimatter charges too
Edit. Forgot to add that theres no point comparing Marauders. Others can use short range weapons, and Paladin has tier4 long range guns, so Kronos will always seem to be bit underpowered. But it does perform rather nicely with good fit. |
Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:51:00 -
[265] - Quote
KFenn wrote:I love all the armchair video game designers in this thread. You don't know exactly how the changes will play out, and you're already calling for more buffs.
All we have is numbers. When we try these numbers out for real (and once metagame settles), THEN we'll know if anything else needs changing. Not until.
+1 for what looks like a solid set of changes CCP.
Even with the speed buff you will still take 2 minutes or more to even get in blaster range while pulse rapes you. Then, when you maybe do finally get in range you don't have a huge dps advantage to make up for the shortcoming of blasters **** range.-á
The auto cannon boats can still kite you.-á
There is no mystery. It is a start but it is all going to leave hybrid boats being ****.-á |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
4
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:53:00 -
[266] - Quote
Valarie Rikeen wrote: We can see that DPS is not too far apart, (768 dps vs 592 dps), yet the speed of a hurricane is 1434 m/s vs the Brutix's 1112 m/s (before the change). Tank is only different by 4k EHP.
thats not really "close" brutix has 25% more damage. also, remember you are comparing a tier 1 BC with a tier 2
Just needed to correct this, read my later post, the real 3 damage mod gank fit overload DPS figures are 965 for Brutix and 905 for Hurricane, sans implants.
Also, the tier system is ******** anyway so it's not a good justification, and in the Gallente case, Brutix is the gank BC anyway Myrm. gank DPS vs Cane is even worse, Myrm ganks for only 868 so fix Hybrids AND Drones, eh? |
Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
23
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:56:00 -
[267] - Quote
CCp Tallest, may I make a small suggestion: Increase minimum warp range to 200km. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
26
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:57:00 -
[268] - Quote
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:I think the better question is: Will those caldari hybid ship pilots be any more or less a waste of space after replacing their AC's with Blasters or Rails. The answer is quite obivously, "no." Good point, that might actually be the better question. Without considering drones or missiles (advantage Rupture if included):
Moa (after buff) 200mm rails (three mfs), spike: 73km+13km = 86km, 157 dps, 422 alpha Rupture 650mm Arties (two tracking enhancers, two gyros), tremor, 57km + 36 km = 93 km, 150 dps, 838 alpha Rupture 650mm Arties (one tracking enhancer, three gyros), tremor, 50km + 28 km = 78 km, 168 dps, 886 alpha
As far as I can tell, the results are similar with other ammo types.
What compelling reason is there to fly a Moa over a Rupture? What is its niche? Shouldn't Moa dps be significantly higher at the same long ranges as a Rupture, since the Rupture alpha is 2 times as great? Rupture still has same or better dps.
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Vedje
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:57:00 -
[269] - Quote
From what i see, it's pretty simple, no need to complicate things even further
Idk what the general idea was when blasters were conceived, but CCP need to tare the old blaster scheme down and start a new.
Either A) Less damage, but better optimal, less falloff, among with better tracking making blasters more like AC. I can see why many disapprove this, indeed it will take that special something blasters had, however then again not many people are fascinated with that special something blasters have now.
or B) Continue with current strategy, namely blasters being some sort of space shotgun. However, if that does come in pass it will mean that gallente ships, due to seriously low range will need some other bonuses. Such as speed bonuses. It would be normal that the weapon with lowest range moves at fastest speed if it was to compete with other systems.
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.10.31 18:57:00 -
[270] - Quote
This is like putting new leather seats in a Ford Pinto. Sure it will be a more comfortable fit and the lighter metals will slighty bump up your acceleration, but you'll be too slow still, unable stretch out your reach and tend to explode before you arrive. |
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