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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:06:00 -
[1381] - Quote
The GM's need to stop giving us their "interpretations" of the rules. They shouldn't be "clarifying" or "interpreting" anything at this point. I said it a few pages back, but senior Developers and CCP's legal team need to look at this. The CSM can help craft the language.
Probably the most idiotic is the "you cannot impersonate an NPC entity". That is probably one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in an MMO.
As many much smarter and more eloquent that an I have said in this thread, the game already gives a LOT of tools to verify someone's identity.
CCP, stop screwing around and address this.
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Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:08:00 -
[1382] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Wow so it's actually making scams harder? I mean, I'm not pro-scamming but...hell it's a part of Eve. Espionage, under handed tactics etc...
Did that EA talking head tell you people to do this, CCP? Cause yeah, you might get more subscribers in the short run...who will quickly get bored. Oh but the vets wi-no they won't. They'll be long gone.
Dude, seriously.
Wat.
Exactly. I too would like this matter escalated higher up the chain. I have to re-up my 3 month sub soon. Normally, I'm patient and wait for the dust to settle, but when it's my money on the line, I want to make sure it's worth spending. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1515
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:12:00 -
[1383] - Quote
Anslo wrote:OK can someone explain to me why all the mad? The ToS always had that bit about impersonation. I think they only care about Dev Actors for live events or GM/CCP xxxx whatever. Why would they randomly start banning someone named 'Teh Mitanni' for using the name to scam people?...
Yes this is probably a stupid question, but I want to see if I can get a concise, non-mad answer.
Can you at least pretend to have read the TOS or, say, a post or two in this thread? I think the issue has been well defined about a TOS and clarifications that have not.
Don't ban me, bro! |
arabella blood
I Swear She Looked 18
148
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:12:00 -
[1384] - Quote
Must be CCP SheVa fault...sigh...EA style is taking over :/ Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2724
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:13:00 -
[1385] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Anslo wrote:OK can someone explain to me why all the mad? The ToS always had that bit about impersonation. I think they only care about Dev Actors for live events or GM/CCP xxxx whatever. Why would they randomly start banning someone named 'Teh Mitanni' for using the name to scam people?...
Yes this is probably a stupid question, but I want to see if I can get a concise, non-mad answer. Can you at least pretend to have read the TOS or, say, a post or two in this thread? I think the issue has been well defined about a TOS and clarifications that have not.
Or read my above post m8.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
840
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:13:00 -
[1386] - Quote
Interestingly, mostly due to the poor handling and sheer hamfistedness (it's a word now, suckers!) of the ruling, this is really turning into a PR nightmare for CCP. Just from my 2 hours or so this morning, this is being talked about in every trade hub, everywhere you go, someone is trying to bait you into violating it. People are already looking to abuse the vague wording for their own gain or amusement.
It's already a complete debacle.
We're not at the "full on player rebellion" point yet, but I can certainly see the possibility. Especially since they've eaten a good amount of player backlash this year already from other (totally avoidable) PR problems. Were it me, I'd tread carefully. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
270
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:14:00 -
[1387] - Quote
What did you do CCP, now you will have to work on those petitions day and night, was it worth it? New CQ prototype |
Cierra Royce
Ganque's Squad
7
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:18:00 -
[1388] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:What did you do CCP, now you will have to work on those petitions day and night, was it worth it?
Hmmmm...
Cui Bono?
We've heard suggestions it's to protect newbs, and accusations of protection for large powerblocks, did we stop to consider that maybe layoffs were on the way for GMs or possibly a juicy new overtime agreement? :tinfoil: |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
57
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:19:00 -
[1389] - Quote
"You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the login name or character name of anyone else."
This sentence confuses me also. I may not obtain ....the character name of anyone else?
now, I'm not a native english speaker. But to me it seems as if I should not know any character name other than those of my characters?
you should delete character names in the forums, or am I wrong? |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
383
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:20:00 -
[1390] - Quote
If I have a carefully crafted reputation as a scammer and someone starts impersonating me in order to complete legitimate business transactions is that against the rules too?
If the new rules are actually intended to protect any reputation I might have why can't I either implicitly or explicitly give people permission to scam using my name or my player group's name either in advance or afterwards? |
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Draleth
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
10
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:20:00 -
[1391] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:Yes, with Phil the actual statement of him being an alt is true, but the actual act of the character using the name of Abdiel Kavash does not differ in any capacity at all. Milton Middleson wrote:What if Abdiel Kavash directly confirms that Phill McScammer (his alt) is in fact his alt (e.g. starting a private conversation with the mark using his main and saying "Phill McScammer is my alt")? Does that still qualify as impersonation? Why would you even bother with the alt in that situation? You can just do whatever you need to do with Abdiel Kavash then. The character Phil technically still impersonates Abdiel.
I don't even. Do you even EVE? The only impression anyone can take away from your last paragraph is that no, in fact, you don't, and are willfully blind to current gaming mechanics.
Here's an example of how they're different: my main, Draleth, is in the Brave Newbies Inc. [SB00N] corporation, headline corporation of the Brave Collective [BRAVE]. I participate in the majority of my play (internet spaceships, spreadsheets, and interpersonal contact) in my main. However, for rather obvious security reasons the alliance uses a sparesely-populated holding corp as executor. Thus, if I, as alliance director of diplomatic relations, need to modify contact standings I need to re-log as my alliance director alt. But it's still me. However, under the new/old/rarely-enforced rules if I'm invited back to a diplomatic convo by one of my secondaries and I claim to be Draleth while sitting in my alt, I can be petitioned by those I am convoing. Not that they would, but hey, some corporations have ***** (plural short form of Richard) for diplos.
So no, I can't do whatever I need to do with my main. No, it's not impersonation if you actually are the same person. In the real world there's this thing called pseudonyms. People are allowed to use them. You don't get charged with fraudulent impersonation if someone ******* (female dogs) about what you do under the pseudonym. You can still get charged with fraud. So what the GMs have unrolled here isn't anti-impersonation, it's anti-fraud. Call it what it is, and this isn't the EVE I signed up for. Fraud, as many others have mentioned including CCP themselves in ads is a core mechanic of gameplay. If you're stupid, you get bit. These people are called "marks" in the biz. And it is a business, both financially and politically through the spy metagame.
You mentioned not wanting to expose information. Well, as has been enforced:
Scammer pretending to be Guudguy scams Idiot. Idiot petitions. Nothing happens.
Alt Of Guudguy scams Idiot claiming to be an alt of Guudguy. Idiot petitions. Nothing happens.
There, solved it for you, and it'd be consistent with perceived implementation from the last decade! And do you know why he's an Idiot in those scenarios? Because he didn't check. Due diligence is your responsibility, the current phrasing makes it nobody's.
Edited to add: if you make it explicit that only the person being impersonated can successfully petition, then all is well. In the two scenarios I outline above the first would get the scammer petitioned and transactions rolled back. The second would result in an idiot becoming somewhat wiser, and knowing who to hate. |
Lexmana
1030
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:21:00 -
[1392] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Lexmana wrote:Since I have been away for some time can anyone tell me if this has anything to do with Soundwave leaving CCP? If he caught wind of it beforehand, it certainly wouldn't have encouraged him to stay. I am sure he did, i.e., if this is a 'new' direction in EVE and not just a stupid mistake by the GM team. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
430
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:22:00 -
[1393] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Interestingly, mostly due to the poor handling and sheer hamfistedness (it's a word now, suckers!) of the ruling, this is really turning into a PR nightmare for CCP. Just from my 2 hours or so this morning, this is being talked about in every trade hub, everywhere you go, someone is trying to bait you into violating it. People are already looking to abuse the vague wording for their own gain or amusement.
It's already a complete debacle.
We're not at the "full on player rebellion" point yet, but I can certainly see the possibility. Especially since they've eaten a good amount of player backlash this year already from other (totally avoidable) PR problems. Were it me, I'd tread carefully. +1. I can't see why CCP would want to implant lead in their own feet, but time and time again, they do. I'm not to the point where I think they're out to ruin their own game (Since DUST probably isn't turning profit yet, oWoDO is miles away, and they can't all work at RIOT), but at this point it's because I don't trust them enough to accept that their convictions and actions coincide. I don't think they intentionally want to cause PR excrement-storms, but it's hard to explain it otherwise.
And of course they only make it better by sending GMs to make it worse by "clarifying" that they meant it worse than what was before the least charitable interpretation. |
Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:23:00 -
[1394] - Quote
Yeep wrote:If I have a carefully crafted reputation as a scammer and someone starts impersonating me in order to complete legitimate business transactions is that against the rules too?
If the new rules are actually intended to protect any reputation I might have why can't I either implicitly or explicitly give people permission to scam using my name or my player group's name either in advance or afterwards?
By that same logic, if I have a reputation of a dirty scammer, is it now against the rules to try to become a more honest resident of New Eden. Is the new Johan misrepresenting the old Johan and therefore subject to ban? |
arabella blood
I Swear She Looked 18
148
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:24:00 -
[1395] - Quote
If i sign a "Power of attorney" document with someone...can he scam on my behalf??? Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
waferzankko
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
28
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:25:00 -
[1396] - Quote
after reading this post i now feel as i was mauled by a monkey in florida. |
Boris Borison
Evolution Rising
3
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:26:00 -
[1397] - Quote
Impersonating someone, by using an deliberately similar name, has been (quite rightly) against the rules for as long as I remember.
Misrepresenting yourself, by claiming to be someone's alt or claiming to represent another entity, has until now been a normal part of Eve.
If someone claims to be an alt of Chribba, then I'd check with Chribba or check Chribba's bio. If someone claimed to represent Goons and that they could move my stuff into null, then I'd assume it was a scam anyway, especially if they were a member of the swarm.
Misrepresentation is part of Eve, Carbon as a Charon, Ravens as Navy Ravens, awoxing dishonest scumbags as honest reliable pilots, boys as girls, girls as boys.....
Editing the official wiki to pull off a scam was a clever move and I applaud the players ingenuity, but the wiki does need to be factually correct, so plug that loophole and leave us to lie to each other in game and on these forums. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1111
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:27:00 -
[1398] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: It could be the case that they want to avoid any act which allows for the potential identification of alts from their actions. Going back to the example where actually being an alt is treated differently:
The scammed player petitions Joe - Gets reimbursed. Does business Abdiel as normal. the scammed player petitions Phill - No reimbursement > Scamee knows Phill = Abdiel thus both are labelled as scammers > Abdiel burns 2 characters since he was effectively outed by GM actions
Which demonstrates why the overreaching use, rather than simply naming, seems like a bad rule.
Bingo. That is one of the other reasons that both situations are handled identically.
In order to protect my account's identity, you are compelled to ban the account.
:CCP: |
arabella blood
I Swear She Looked 18
149
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:27:00 -
[1399] - Quote
You actually look like that as well :P Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Echo Echoplex
77
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:28:00 -
[1400] - Quote
@1:10
http://youtu.be/WINDtlPXmmE
...Final word or not, the longer this goes without an official return to these concerns, the more it's beginning to feel like a snubbing by CCP of a very loyal playerbase. This can't be reading well in the blogs and media outlets coming as it does on the heels of some well known devs jumping ship.
CCP, aren't you concerned at all with damage control? Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. Gen. George S. Patton |
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
431
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:29:00 -
[1401] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:GM Karidor wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: It could be the case that they want to avoid any act which allows for the potential identification of alts from their actions. Going back to the example where actually being an alt is treated differently:
The scammed player petitions Joe - Gets reimbursed. Does business Abdiel as normal. the scammed player petitions Phill - No reimbursement > Scamee knows Phill = Abdiel thus both are labelled as scammers > Abdiel burns 2 characters since he was effectively outed by GM actions
Which demonstrates why the overreaching use, rather than simply naming, seems like a bad rule.
Bingo. That is one of the other reasons that both situations are handled identically. In order to protect my account's identity, you are compelled to ban the account. :CCP: It works if you interpret the account as your bank account. And identity as a surplus compared to last month. And the banned account as your EVE related expenses. |
Ammzi
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1455
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:31:00 -
[1402] - Quote
http://evewho.com/pilot/Legit
Noone can claim to be legit. Impersonation. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
289
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:32:00 -
[1403] - Quote
A very recent article showcasing yet another high-profile heist/scam/etc. that is now bannable under ToS changes.
Want to know how I found this article? CCP's twitter feed. |
Lexmana
1030
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:33:00 -
[1404] - Quote
Echo Echoplex wrote:CCP, aren't you concerned at all with damage control?
It usually comes in the form of a letter by Hilmar to the comunity. But not before their bottom line takes a hit (and a lot of rage). |
Isis Dea
Combat Cruise Control
40
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:33:00 -
[1405] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:The GM interpretations I have seen thus far are appalling. Please, we want this escalated to someone more senior to reconsider this.
The change to not being able to impersonate groups or NPCs is a new change, and will only lead to abuse.
+1
This.
Who are these people and do they even know what game they're managing?
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Potentate Palladin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:37:00 -
[1406] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote: In order to protect my account's identity, you are compelled to ban the account.
:CCP:
I'm only five minutes old and innit ironic that I already have to worry that I'm impersonating a member of your group? Oh, the irony. |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3391
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:39:00 -
[1407] - Quote
Out of all the autistic neckbeard spacenerds on barricades -threads, this one is by far the most autistic.
You guys would be funny if you weren't actually serious about this whining.
Come on, raise your skinny fists to the heavens and demand justice!11onenenee
. |
Kheeria
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
19
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:44:00 -
[1408] - Quote
Roime wrote:Out of all the autistic neckbeard spacenerds on barricades -threads, this one is by far the most autistic.
You guys would be funny if you weren't actually serious about this whining.
Come on, raise your skinny fists to the heavens and demand justice!11onenenee
Please go biomass. |
Viscis Breeze
TriFlexure Void-Legion
17
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:46:00 -
[1409] - Quote
This is just CCP Mad wielding the power stick for too long right?
Also how about this:
I roll a second account and a second character and impersonate myself to steal from someone who trusts my main. CCP knows that I own both accounts and that therefore I wasn't lying. Does my main then get banned and punished for something that my alt did? |
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
28
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Posted - 2013.09.13 15:47:00 -
[1410] - Quote
Johan March wrote:Probably the most idiotic is the "you cannot impersonate an NPC entity". That is probably one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in an MMO.
Not really. I remember someone naming their ship "CONCORD Salvager" and then salvaging mission wrecks of random guys. One guy even got confused and started asking in local when did CCP introduce Salvaging NPCs.
Guess that kind of ingenuity would be banned now =P |
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