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Adrastos Volos
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:55:00 -
[1]
Ok...Right now I just got a BC, Cyclone. Thus far am loving it.
I am trying to think down the road, what I want, and I looked at the Vagabond, Stabber class Heavy Assault Ship. It has really nice resistances, but lacks the shield capacity and armor of the Cyclone. 6 guns to the Cyclone's 8. It just seems like a lesser of a ship. It IS a lot faster though, which is what interested me in it.
Do the resistances and speed make the Vagabond better than the cyclone? Or am I better of sticking with the Cyclone and not worrying about going for Hvy AS?
Thanks guys. |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:57:00 -
[2]
depends on ur wallet
hacs are better, but cost more
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:14:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists depends on ur wallet
hacs are better, but cost more
QFT.
Vaga has more speed (302.5 with cruiser bonus vs 165), less mass (which means higher speed with AB/MWD), better agility, much better shield resists, lower sig (115 vs 240). It has rof + damage bonus where cyclone has only rof, and has same amounts of turrets but 2 less missiles (but, well, who really cares, there's no bonus for them). In the end, vaga has 25% more firepower from turrets, which the 2 more launchers on the cyclone won't match. Less base shield HP and no shield boost bonus though, but it's really an incredible ship.
So in the end Vaga has less shield / s than cyclone, but its higher res, higher speed, and lower speed makes greatly for it, and it has more firepower. It costs 5 times as much as a cyclone (2.5 times as much if you want to wait 150 days at NAGA ), and you'll get nothing from insurance though. And it requires more skills too. With the skills and the wallet, I'd go for a vaga without a doubt.
Originally by: Oveur I am not interested in "the lottery sucks" or "more tech 2 blueprints" since that is pretty much stating the obvious
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Adrastos Volos
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:20:00 -
[4]
kewl...thanks for pointing all that out, very helpful. :-)
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Grut
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:50:00 -
[5]
HACs are more fun, bcs give you *ALOT* more bang for your isk
Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2006.01.06 02:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Grut HACs are more fun, bcs give you *ALOT* more bang for your isk
I dont agree. HAC are far and away superior to BC. I paid 2x the cost of my Cyclone for my Muninn and I think its worth twice a HAC. Of course I live in Amarr space so Shield tanking sucks out here... ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Amerame
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Posted - 2006.01.06 03:50:00 -
[7]
130-150M for most HAC at the moment it seems, at this price they are not worth flying imo, unless you really have too much money. HAC are toys, not something you want to use on a daily basis.
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2006.01.06 07:57:00 -
[8]
HACs are awesome but so expensive nowadays I don't even bother with them. BC's give you a lot of bang for your buck. Prophecy is an awesome beast. Brutix tanks well and does awesome DPS. And Cyclone, well it just got hooked up immensely. Only drawback to them is their speed and agility. HAC's are better but not good enough i feel to justify their current prices.
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.01.06 08:41:00 -
[9]
Edited by: SengH on 06/01/2006 08:42:08 go for the slepnir 7x720IIs 4tw... you'll prolly instahull most hacs with that.
Edit: 7x425IIs/220IIs with a good warpin and you'll toast anything ingame.
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Mruah Ktah
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Posted - 2006.01.06 11:38:00 -
[10]
Production costs for Vagabond are ~40mil isk. You need to be good terms with T2 production corps thou (the best way to make friends with them is to secure their freighters and mining ops time to time - look like a nice chap all through out and over)
High: 5 x 425mm AC II, Assault Launcher II Low: 3 Gyrostabilizer II-s in low 5 light ECM drones
Common setup when hunting: Med: AB II, scrambler, webber, large shield extender II Low: ladar backup array II, Internal Force Field Array I (till damage control II hits the market)
Some changes what have paid off against various BS-s: Med: warp scrambler, 3 x racial jammers Low: 2 cap power relay, ladar backup array II, 2 gyro II
It really depends how much intel you got about your oponent.
But about fighting BC-s You should pop them in 5 sec, as for cost vs power - 1 HAC vs 3 BC is a nice even fight i guess - don't recall having such fight thou :)
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Sheerin
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Posted - 2006.01.06 12:02:00 -
[11]
i think 3 vs 1 is a little optimistic, as is the 5 seconds :)
you wont get most HACs for the price of 3 BC, probably more like 4 (or maybe more, depending on different things offcourse)
as for the 5 seconds, you need alot of skills for a HAC, but if you take a BC with a pilot that has those same skills you probably wont pop it in 5 seconds :)
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Mruah Ktah
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Posted - 2006.01.06 12:08:00 -
[12]
Youre right but people with same skills seldom fly BC-s... However people who ask those questions - which is better - they dont want to hear 5.844 sec / its different every time / sometimes you get badly pwnt - they need good faith and hyper-reality to move on with their EVE lives.
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Alex Kynes
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Posted - 2006.01.06 12:37:00 -
[13]
Well. Battlecruisers are underdogs, IMO. Mainly because they are mostly flown by rookie pilots on their way to a battleship in their first month in game. Which is a bloody joke!
And most people who fly battleships can't be bothered to take a battlecruiser for a spin.
Now, in a proper pilot's hands battlecruisers make awsome ships, I imagine. In my eyes they are the poor man's HAC. They just take some of that is called "dedication".
My two ISK, anyways.
/AK
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2006.01.06 13:22:00 -
[14]
BC vs HAS is always a good topic for debate, and if you read the descriptions for Battlecruisers you'll get an indication of what they were designed for.
HAS are also role specific and fit their roles well, if used as designed.
I fly a Brutix and Ferox (Cyclone if I want since I have the skill), and I also fly an Ishtar and Cerberus.
If you want value for money, then there is no comparison, get a Cyclone or any other BC you like to try. You'll also get a full insurance payout if you loose one, and that CAN happen to a BC and an HAS. Only difference is that the insurane payout for a HAS is errm, well non existant.
For sheer thrills then HAS are superior since with their increased resistances they can do lvl 4 missions solo where a BC will struggle nor will it be able to break the tanks on some of the BS rats.
So given this it would seem that HAS >> BC, but all battles depend upon fitting, and I fit my Ishtar differently for a lvl 4 mission than i do for a lvl 3 mission, and I'm sure I would do the same if I did pvp.
DO NOT underestimate BC vs HAS in the hands of a competent pilot with the right skills. The Butix with 7 guns will give the Deimos a run for its money in term of sheer DPS, and I'm quite sure that the same is true of a Cyclone vs a Munin or Vagabond.
In the end, the guy who replied 1st got it right: It all depends on your wallet, and ultimately your skills.
Get the Cyclone first then train the skills necessary for a Vagabond, and then go back to your Cyclone. You'll see how all the HAS skills really improve all your ships performances.
Enjoy
Justice
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Greyshadow
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Posted - 2006.01.06 14:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alex Kynes And most people who fly battleships can't be bothered to take a battlecruiser for a spin.
I've just stepped back to a BC as I have the skills to fly it well now and the difference from when I first flew one back in the day is amazing. As a example some guy last night wanted help doing a mission, he was also flying a BC (same one as me) on his was to getting a BS and he ended up having to warp out after falling into structure, he then message saying you still in there I laughed and said yeah as my tank was easily holding, so just like the guys above said the skills make all the difference.
I'm guessing also it might be very well getting a HAC but if you don't have the skills to use it right a decent BC pilot could/would give you some cause for concern.
Obviously though if you have the skills then HAC 4tw.
"Now you see me, now you don't!" |
Alex Kynes
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Posted - 2006.01.06 14:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Greyshadow Obviously though if you have the skills then HAC 4tw.
And ISKies!
/AK
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Cmdr Patrick
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Posted - 2006.01.06 14:20:00 -
[17]
Unless you know what your doin in your heavy assult a well fitted battle cruiser will own you....if you knwo what your doing in the hac you will pwn the battle crusier...
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Greyshadow
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Posted - 2006.01.06 14:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Alex Kynes
Originally by: Greyshadow Obviously though if you have the skills then HAC 4tw.
And ISKies!
/AK
Beg, borrow, sell your grannie if you have to....
"Now you see me, now you don't!" |
MWEI
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:34:00 -
[19]
Field command ships FTW
With BC skill at lv5 and the higher base resistance on field command ships, you have an overal resistance close to an HAC, and add the damage bonus to them and gang support bouns they seem to be better than HACs
No insurance payout though, hella expensive, takes twice as long to train for, but worth the money i suppose?
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Alex Kynes
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Greyshadow
Originally by: Alex Kynes
Originally by: Greyshadow Obviously though if you have the skills then HAC 4tw.
And ISKies!
/AK
Beg, borrow, sell your grannie if you have to....
I "borrow" and sell grannies all the time. Still short, tho.
/AK
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Filan
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:42:00 -
[21]
im thinking of getting a Ferox in the future(just stepped into a Caracal) im figuring while im making the money for a BC i can be training up my medium turret skills(all my missle stuff is at level 3 and headed to 5)
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Greyshadow
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Filan im thinking of getting a Ferox in the future(just stepped into a Caracal) im figuring while im making the money for a BC i can be training up my medium turret skills(all my missle stuff is at level 3 and headed to 5)
Don't rush for it, I thought I was unbeatable in mine when I first got it then I lost it as I had poor skills.
Its one thing being able to pilot it, and a completely different thing using it!!
Stick with the caracal work with it and get some decent skills to use it as a decent cruiser pilot will beat a noob in his ferox.
(Sorry for the jack)
grannies 4tw!
"Now you see me, now you don't!" |
Ashwa
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:54:00 -
[23]
what would taek the longes time to train then=? assault ships 4 then HAS 5, and medium turrets 5
vs BS 5 and large turrets 5? including all the other skill reqs for these skills.
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qztknmqmz
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Filan im thinking of getting a Ferox in the future(just stepped into a Caracal) im figuring while im making the money for a BC i can be training up my medium turret skills(all my missle stuff is at level 3 and headed to 5)
I suggest you instead continue training your heavies and train small energy weapons instead. Ignore the medium bonus on the Ferox and go for a tank instead. With a cheap config you can sit inside a cloud of NPCs without effort.
A cheap setup will be: 2 x invulv 1's, 3 x large shield extenders, and 4 x PDU 1's.
Once you get your BC skill to 4 then train for invuln 2's, then LSE II's, then consider swapping one or more PDUs for shield power relays and/ or BCS depending.
Small lasers will take out frigs without much effort with microwave for distance and multispec for the "boo" factor.
If - after all that - you then get bored and have the time, train for the rails anyway and see what you think. You'll find it harder to run an uber tank though.
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Voltron
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:57:00 -
[25]
Brutix > Hacs
Volt
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Filan
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Posted - 2006.01.06 16:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: qztknmqmz Edited by: qztknmqmz on 06/01/2006 15:58:11
Originally by: Filan im thinking of getting a Ferox in the future(just stepped into a Caracal) im figuring while im making the money for a BC i can be training up my medium turret skills(all my missle stuff is at level 3 and headed to 5)
I suggest you instead continue training your heavies and train small energy weapons instead. Ignore the medium bonus on the Ferox and go for a tank instead. With a cheap config you can sit inside a cloud of NPCs without effort.
A cheap setup will be: 2 x invulv 1's, 3 x large shield extenders, and 4 x PDU 1's.
Once you get your BC skill to 4 then train for invuln 2's, then LSE II's, then consider swapping one or more PDUs for shield power relays and/ or BCS depending.
Small lasers will take out frigs without much effort with microwave for distance and multifreq for the "boo" factor.
If - after all that - you then get bored and have the time, train for the rails anyway and see what you think. You'll find it harder to run an uber tank though.
guess im off to a good start then, i fly a Coercer for my destroyer and as such im at small energy turret 3.
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