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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2011.10.30 04:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Justin Credulent wrote:Quote:The trade system can be exploited and used to scam players, the GM's know about it and do nothing. The GMs are lazy, and they use the excuse "EVE is meant to be a harsh and unforgiving Universe" as a front for said laziness. But just scam CCP out of some cash and you'll quickly see that they don't condone scamming after all... Quote:Nowadays trades where you are offered normal ship renamed as faction ship instead of faction ship, should be easy to spot -- just check for that green faction-mark at top left corner of ship icon. If that mark is not there, it is not faction ship. Something every newbie knows, since the tutorial covers it.... Quote:You try and help this guy and this is the response i get for my trouble really now what a ******* he is
From: Reese Tek'al Sent: 2011.10.30 02:57 To: QQ,
If you met me IRL I'd thump that **** poor attitude right out of you little goblin.
I'm jettisoning my stuff into space ;-) Since the fact in EVE is this: if you've been victimized it's your fault; then one could only conclude, since this person is saying something mean to you - that it is in response to some trollish or antagonistic behavior on your part. In the future if you don't want people saying such mean things to you then the advise to you is to have a little more respect and courtesy towards other players.
Ohh aint you a smart little one
And we all know what happens to vocal smart little ones dont we
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Zillam Reynardine
Red Soul Black Dream
9
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Posted - 2011.10.30 12:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
Reese Tek'al wrote:Yeah, so what does that say about the game in general? Welcome to EVE, where it's a crime to be a victim. As in real life the majority of users on the forums are perennial vampires, trolls, and uncaring assholes who's only purpose in life is to 'collect tears' etc. What a joke, and what a let down to all of us that this small group of people is being trained by a ****** game to be even more apathetic. It's a crime to ***** on the forums about an aspect of the game that the playerbase has, for a very long time, come to accept as "the way of things".
From what I can tell about EVE, when things don't go your way, there are, essentially, two paths you can take:
1. You can get mad. You can ***** and whine at EVE's unfairness to anyone who will give you even a moment of attention (and, more often, to those who won't), and wallow in your pathetic sadness, or
2. You can get even. Get scammed? Scam the scammer. Get ganked? Go gank the ganker. No player in EVE is invincible (except maybe Chribba).
Sure, getting even won't be easy, but no one said it was. And if you don't want to spend the time and effort it takes to get even... well then, admit defeat. You got scammed/ganked/owned/rolled/whatever, and you're too soft/lazy to do anything constructive about it. Suck it up or GTFO.
tl;dr: HTFU. |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
349
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Posted - 2011.10.30 13:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
I have edited the thread title as it is both misleading and discussing exploits would be against the forum rules. CCP Navigator - Lead Community Representative |
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Justin Credulent
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.30 18:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
Quote:As everyone else here is saying , you fell to a simple game mechanic and you were so greedy that you didn't even take the time to make sure that the items you were buying were as described. These scams only work if the player allows greed to overtake common sense.
lol"greedy". Isn't the person running the scam is really the greedy one?
Not a lot of critical thinking in this thread...
Quote:Ohh aint you a smart little one
And we all know what happens to vocal smart little ones dont we
Yes. They are frequently on the receiving end of empty threats.
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Justin Credulent
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.30 19:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quote:You got scammed because you thought you were taking advantage of another player who didn't know enough to offer a reasonable price. Given that your attempt to take advantage of someone else led to you being rooked in turn, it's difficult to understand why you think we should sympathise with you.
Nice try but no. I have to call "troll" on this because I can't honestly believe that you're that idiotic.
Quote:The big kicker ? The person that gets "scammed" this way CAN ACTUALLY SCAM THE SCAMMER BACK, all within the exact same system.
Yes, because we all know scammers are susceptible to the very same scams they utilize... not.
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Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
106
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Posted - 2011.10.30 22:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
I got scammed like that as well (in my defense, I was intoxicated) and all I can say to you is: if someone is advertising items below the average order on the market it's a scam, if the item name is Republic Fleet Stabber but the ship looks like a normal one it's a scam, if you get a mail that's sent to you and many others with the same starting letter in your name it's also a scam.
Deal with it nerd etc |
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
106
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Posted - 2011.10.30 22:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Justin Credulent wrote:Quote:You got scammed because you thought you were taking advantage of another player who didn't know enough to offer a reasonable price. Given that your attempt to take advantage of someone else led to you being rooked in turn, it's difficult to understand why you think we should sympathise with you. Nice try but no. I have to call "troll" on this because I can't honestly believe that you're that idiotic. Quote:The big kicker ? The person that gets "scammed" this way CAN ACTUALLY SCAM THE SCAMMER BACK, all within the exact same system. Yes, because we all know scammers are susceptible to the very same scams they utilize... not. It's totally not greedy to want to buy stuff under market to relist them guys. That is, unless that guy wanted to fly faction stabbers because he pvps a lot right
Also yeah you can scam them back, works out sometimes, put 40k in the offer and get a cheap stabber v0v |
Cerisia
Lone Star enterprises
266
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Posted - 2011.10.30 23:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Justin Credulent wrote:Quote:As everyone else here is saying , you fell to a simple game mechanic and you were so greedy that you didn't even take the time to make sure that the items you were buying were as described. These scams only work if the player allows greed to overtake common sense. lol"greedy". Isn't the person running the scam is really the greedy one? Not a lot of critical thinking in this thread...
Actually the person running the scam has probably sat there for hours linking the same contract over and over. Even if it took him an hour I can probably earn more doing level 4 missions , or ransoming someone.
So no , I wouldn't say the scammer was greedy at all.
Patient., tenacious maybe but not greedy.
In the OP's case, he was offered some cheap Navy Stabbers (how cheap? We don't know) But one would assume that they were cheap enough for him to think he could make a good profit from them. (For most of us that's where the alarm bells would have started ringing)
However powered by his desire (or greed) for them he went to the station.
The scammer told him that he could only trade them (again , most of us would balk at this or indeed wonder why the scammer was refusing to put them into a private contract)
But his desire for them (or greed) was too strong and blinded him.
The items were presented in the trade window, all the OP had to do was check the info on them (or look for the coloured corner on the icon) but the OP was in such a rush to make the deal (because he was driven by his desire - or greed to make the deal as fast as possible, before the scammer had a chance to back out) that he traded without checking.
In all scams, both ingame and in real life - the one thing a scammer uses to his advantage in his chosen mark , is the marks greed - without that the scammer is unlikely to pull the scam off.
Free Lyris Nairn, goodposter extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar. |
Justin Credulent
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 00:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
Quote:Actually the person running the scam has probably sat there for hours linking the same contract over and over. Even if it took him an hour I can probably earn more doing level 4 missions , or ransoming someone.
So no , I wouldn't say the scammer was greedy at all.
No sorry, that's not gonna work, either.
Quote:In the OP's case, he was offered some cheap Navy Stabbers (how cheap? We don't know) But one would assume that they were cheap enough for him to think he could make a good profit from them. (For most of us that's where the alarm bells would have started ringing)
Says you. But do we really know how many the OP purchased or what he intended them for? No. For all we know the OP only purchased 1 to run missions with.
Sorry, again nice try but no cigar.
Quote:The scammer told him that he could only trade them (again , most of us would balk at this or indeed wonder why the scammer was refusing to put them into a private contract)
But his desire for them (or greed) was too strong and blinded him.
The items were presented in the trade window, all the OP had to do was check the info on them (or look for the coloured corner on the icon) but the OP was in such a rush to make the deal (because he was driven by his desire - or greed to make the deal as fast as possible, before the scammer had a chance to back out) that he traded without checking.
Sounds more like a naive newbie or casual than some nefarious, greed ridden fiend.
I give you credit for the effort, but you've failed trying to pain the victim as the bad guy. Sorry again.
Quote:In all scams, both ingame and in real life - the one thing a scammer uses to his advantage in his chosen mark , is the mark's greed - without that the scammer is unlikely to pull the scam off.
Another failed attempt at projecting the scammer's guilt onto the person who got scammed.
What's the matter? You sound like a scammer yourself, trying to alleviate your own conscience and to persuade your victims to "accept" their "punishment" for being "greedy". You sound a bit like you have a personality disorder.
Maybe seek therapy?
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Cerisia
Lone Star enterprises
267
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Posted - 2011.10.31 00:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
Justin Credulent wrote:". You sound a bit like you have a personality disorder.
Maybe seek therapy?
Post reported for the personal attack on me. Free Lyris Nairn, goodposter extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar. |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
235
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Posted - 2011.10.31 00:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reese Tek'al wrote:Yeah, so what does that say about the game in general?
If the scam you are speaking of is the one where someone offers you e.g.: a "Raven Navy Issue" via trade window, then once you've handed over your 300M ISK you find that what you have is a Raven that has been named "Raven Navy Issue", I'd suggest that what this says about the game in general is that EVE Online is an excellent training ground for people to be aware of contract law in general.
Scams like this happen all the time in real life, and they're perfectly legal because the paperwork describes exactly what you're buying. There are some consumer protection arrangements in place, but generally you'll find that it's impossible to get a refund from a company that no longer exists.
So here is what you can learn from this: read the fine print. Examine the details of the transaction and make sure that you are in fact getting what you paid for. Even going to the supermarket, make sure that the price marked on the shelf is what was advertised in the brochure, and is the price that rings up on the till when you're paying for it. Insist on only paying the lowest of the three prices. When signing a contract to buy a new house, make sure the company has been in business for a few years, and check that the principals have not had a history of running businesses which then declare bankruptcy.
Welcome to EVE Online, oft referred to as "Capitalism 101" and designed as a cruel harsh world where you can learn some valuable life lessons in safety.
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Justin Credulent
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 01:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cerisia wrote:Justin Credulent wrote:". You sound a bit like you have a personality disorder.
Maybe seek therapy? Post reported for the personal attack on me.
lol |
Justin Credulent
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 01:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
Quote:Scams like this happen all the time in real life
Yeah man. Like this one time I went to Mikey Mark's Ford Dealership, and I thought i was buying a new Ford F-350, but really what I got was a used Ford Focus!
I was pissed, but the reality is, scams like this happen all the time in real life...
Oh wait, stuff like that doesn't really happen in real life, and in real life there's this thing called "law enforcement" which will try to rectify the situations.
PS: Also just because something "happens all the time", doesn't make it correct. Please check your fallacies at the door. **** happens all the time - does that mean we should just turn a blind eye and tell those poor women that they "should have read the fine print"?
Quote:Welcome to EVE Online, oft referred to as "Capitalism 101" and designed as a cruel harsh world where you can learn some valuable life lessons in safety.
lol Are you kidding?
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Keno Skir
27
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Posted - 2011.10.31 03:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Justin Credulent wrote:Yeah man. Like this one time I went to Mikey Mark's Ford Dealership, and I thought i was buying a new Ford F-350, but really what I got was a used Ford Focus!
I was pissed, but the reality is, scams like this happen all the time in real life...
Christ your slow dude.
If you looked at the Ford Focus car and thought it was an F-350 then you are as much of an idiot as you sound and you deserve to go home with jack.
FACT 1 - He could SEE that the ships shown were in fact not the ships he wanted by the icon shown in the trade window.
FACT 2 - If he did not aquip himself with the relevent knowledge to do the business he was doing then it's HIS FAULT, and while he can maybe be excused for being new to the game it is not a good enough reason to come stumbling onto the forums saying the game stitched him up. He should laugh about it and remember he's playing a massive game of pirates and good-guys in space, not buying a car in real life.
I'v never once been scammed and on the one occasion i was robbed blind it was MY FAULT. One time i was offered a cheap navy issue megathron in trade, i clicked on it and went to show info and it showed me a standard megathron, so i didn't buy it (see what i did there?).
There are many scammers in EVE but most of us are imune to them because we check things out before running in, do the same and you shall survive too.
The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
15
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Posted - 2011.10.31 12:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Please be mindful that not everyone joins this game fully familiar with the unique way it handles scams and other con artist tricks within the game world, particularly on this forum.
Just to bring a few points to the table.
- Scamming and betraying trust is not considered to be against the EULA or Terms of Service of EVE Online. Due to the nature of the living economy of the game world, customer support can not assist you should you lost valuable assets in this manner. We can only assist you with tips on how to identify and avoid scams in the future.
- There is currently no exploit known with station trades. Scams involving these fall under the point above.
Then there is always the debate whether or not there should be more information available during station trades, in lieu of having to manually check each item traded. Customer support receives a few concerns in regards to this every day. As is our duty we voice these concerns to our development teams, but currently there are not any plans to visit the station trade system that customer support is aware of.
Should our erstwhile forum posters have an opinion on whether or not the station trade system should be revisited and then how, then that will most undoubtedly be appreciated.
Reese Tek'al, I am sorry to hear that you got snubbed on what appeared to be a good deal. I would go so far as to advice you never to accept station trades with anyone that you do not trust explicitly, such as a corpmate (not even guaranteed then) or a real life friend. I hope you take the chance to learn from this unfortunate event and stay with us wiser and stronger as a result. Experience is one of the most valuable commodities in EVE. Senior Game Master | EVE Online Customer Support Team | Info Group | CCP Games
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
26
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Posted - 2011.10.31 13:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote: ...
Then there is always the debate whether or not there should be more information available during station trades, in lieu of having to manually check each item traded. Customer support receives a few concerns in regards to this every day. As is our duty we voice these concerns to our development teams, but currently there are not any plans to visit the station trade system that customer support is aware of.
Should our erstwhile forum posters have an opinion on whether or not the station trade system should be revisited and then how, then that will most undoubtedly be appreciated. ... I know it can be devastating to loose money, but I honestly hope that the 'I-hold-your-hand' mentality of other MMOs does not (further) swap into EVE.
EVE is a mature game. If people don't bother to read or not even click on Show Info, when they find a 'phantastic' bargain, then it's their own fault. |
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GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
17
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Posted - 2011.10.31 13:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lutz Major wrote:I know it can be devastating to loose money, but I honestly hope that the 'I-hold-your-hand' mentality of other MMOs does not (further) swap into EVE.
[quote=Lutz Major]EVE is a mature game. If people don't bother to read or not even click on Show Info, when they find a 'phantastic' bargain, then it's their own fault.
There is always going to be some level of that mentality around, particularly for the newest players. It is not a question of whether or not it should be there, but rather how to adapt it to the EVE mentality.
Anyways, carry on. Senior Game Master | EVE Online Customer Support Team | Info Group | CCP Games
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
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Cerisia
Lone Star enterprises
268
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Posted - 2011.10.31 14:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Also worth having a look at this thread;
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13649&find=unread
Scammers in Eve (why isn't this a sticky guys?) Free Lyris Nairn, goodposter extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
101
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Posted - 2011.10.31 19:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
Reese Tek'al wrote:I just rejoined the game. I got an email advertising some cheap Republic Fleet Stabbers at the Rens VI Moon 8 station. I went there, traded for them, and soon after found out I'd been scammed, by CCP and the GMs.
The player who scammed me, Lady Pol0 - has gotten away with this because the GM's know the trade system is broken and will do nothing to fix it.
The trade system can be exploited and used to scam players, the GM's know about it and do nothing.
I am posting this in the New Players Q&A forum so that new players will see it and know that this game is broken, full of trolls, and a waste of time that is not very fun. Also the support sucks.
It seems to me the simplicity of this scam is so apparent that to not acknowledge and fix it is the same as condoning the use of it, which the GM's and CCP most certainly do.
My question is - Why do GM's and by proxy CCP in general knowingly allow systems that are key to core gameplay (ie: trade system) to be set up in a way that allows players to change the names of items before selling them, thus scamming players out of hard earned isk?
Man that is just heartbreaking... it really is... I can't believe they would do this to you. Know what? It just so happens I just came into some Navy Ravens that I'm willing to part with for 300 mil a pop. Meet me in Jita and I'll hook you up All GëíGêçGëí Ships | Many Odd GëíGêçGëí Items (+Drones) | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |
gfldex
23
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Posted - 2011.10.31 19:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
So some random stranger stopped you on the street to sell you a golden Rolex with 35 karat. It was surprisingly like but who cares for that price? And now you find out that it's all just plastics.
I have a couple things I don't need anymore. Would you mind joining me in my corner shop in the back alley? |
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Jovan Geldon
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
138
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Reese Tek'al wrote:designed with scammers in mind
Reese Tek'al wrote:unacceptable
Pick one
It's a cold, harsh, and unforgiving universe. Get used to it, or learn where the "Cancel Subscription" button is. |
Dante KamiyaX
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.11.01 02:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Working as intended! |
Alayne Burton
Demolision Specialists
0
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Posted - 2011.11.02 19:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
I have seen the same and almost felt for it it,
Pay 350m Get 1 PLEX
You will also pay: 1 PLEX
You will also pay was in red. When dealing with contract just take a second look.
Besides if you keep track off the market you may wonder why someone asks 350m for it while prices are up to 380m. |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.11.02 20:46:00 -
[54] - Quote
Contracts are easy to read. Those guys advertising PLEX for 450M isk, when you look at the contract it's 450 THOUSAND.
I wasn't aware that it was an exploit (it's not) to prey on the unsuspecting, unwitting and naive. SHOW INFO.
Face it, this is a game OF sociopaths, FOR sociopaths, designed BY sociopaths.
Once you accept this simple fact, your life will become much simpler.
Everyone has an angle. Everyone is a mark.
Adapt or quit. It's simple.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
flakeys
The Great cornholio's Paper Tiger Coalition
34
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Posted - 2011.11.03 14:11:00 -
[55] - Quote
Reese Tek'al wrote:It seems to me the simplicity of this scam is so apparent
Then enlighten me why you even fell for it.
IT is not broken and does not need fixing , this is eve where you have to think for yourself not let the GM and CCP do it FOR you as you appearantly want it to be.
For new players it is simple: ALLWAYS check the pricing of an item , avoid direct window trade when buying/selling something but use the contract system.Once the contract is up LOOK CLOSELY if it is as agreed.Allways check the market history graph wich you can click on when looking at an item on the market.
IF too good to be true it is in eve.
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Padma Daq
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 15:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
I can only hope a lot of new players read this thread, hopefully during their trial and before they buy the game.
There's not a single supportive post towards the issue the OP is raising. Most go as far to tell him it's his own fault and it "serves him right". Remember: the OP was the VICTIM.
So to all new players who read this thread: That's the community that you are joining. Some people call it "dark and cold" or "mature", I better don't post what I call it (not gonna risk a ban over it). Oh, and there's more or less no swearing, name caling etc. in this topic. So it's even the nicer part of the comunity you have experienced here.
If you are prepared to play with people who will do and justify EVERYTHING to make your life miserable, then stay. Else I'd urge you to reconsider your choice of this game. |
Cerisia
Lone Star enterprises
274
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Posted - 2011.11.03 15:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Padma Daq wrote:
If you are prepared to play with people who will do and justify EVERYTHING to make your life miserable, then stay a victim. Else I'd urge you to reconsider your choice of path in this game.
FIFY Free Lyris Nairn, goodposter extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar. |
Keno Skir
30
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Posted - 2011.11.03 16:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
Padma Daq wrote:I can only hope a lot of new players read this thread, hopefully during their trial and before they buy the game.
There's not a single supportive post towards the issue the OP is raising. Most go as far to tell him it's his own fault and it "serves him right". Remember: the OP was the VICTIM.
So to all new players who read this thread: That's the community that you are joining. Some people call it "dark and cold" or "mature", I better don't post what I call it (not gonna risk a ban over it). Oh, and there's more or less no swearing, name caling etc. in this topic. So it's even the nicer part of the comunity you have experienced here.
If you are prepared to play with people who will do and justify EVERYTHING to make your life miserable, then stay. Else I'd urge you to reconsider your choice of this game.
Someones bitter today..
People with questions tend to get their answers (at least from me) as long as they don't come with an attitude about how "broken" or "designed only for the scammers" EvE is. This community was always good to me when i started and has remained so. After a while you just start to know who's posts to read :)
If you want a decent answer from the forums just be a bit humble and don't assume that when something isn't quite working out for you it's because the game is screwed, maybe you just need some advice to enjoy it as much as everyone else. The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Padma Daq
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 16:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
@Cerisia: I would prefer if you explicitly mark it when you quote me and change my words. Thank you.
@Keno Skir: I am not exceptional bitter today. It's simply that my opinion about the EVE community is extremly low. And it's been that for a long time now. I am not claiming that you should/must share my opinion on the topic. I'd just like new players to read an opposing view sometimes, hence posting here once in a while to make _my_ point clear. |
Cerisia
Lone Star enterprises
274
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Posted - 2011.11.03 16:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
Padma Daq wrote:@Cerisia:
I would prefer if you explicitly mark it when you quote me and change my words. Thank you.
Done (for all those who don't know what FIFY means..) Free Lyris Nairn, goodposter extraordinaire and Spacebook Superstar. |
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