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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11311
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Posted - 2013.08.21 20:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Well, I'm getting a copy of it on CD in what I assume is a 144Kbps format. Is there any chance of maybe getting an imprint in Vinyl done from the original recording? I'm guessing there's more than a few audiophiles willing to check if Eve has sound or not? Simple question, Dev answers get double chocolate chip cookies
Because of your thread I youtubed the whole thing and listened to it all over again.
Thank you.
1 Kings 12:11
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Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
222
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Posted - 2013.08.21 20:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.
Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.
vs.
The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference". |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38391
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 21:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.
Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.
vs.
The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference".
I guess my 7 years of musical training tricks me into what I'm hearing.
Oh brother. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11313
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Posted - 2013.08.21 21:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
John 18:38
1 Kings 12:11
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3320
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Posted - 2013.08.21 21:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.
Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.
vs.
The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference". I guess my 7 years of musical training tricks me into what I'm hearing.
Was that "music" training specifically working as a studio and/or audio engineer?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
32153
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Posted - 2013.08.21 21:43:00 -
[66] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kirjava wrote:Well, I'm getting a copy of it on CD in what I assume is a 144Kbps format. Is there any chance of maybe getting an imprint in Vinyl done from the original recording? I'm guessing there's more than a few audiophiles willing to check if Eve has sound or not? Simple question, Dev answers get double chocolate chip cookies Because of your thread I youtubed the whole thing and listened to it all over again. Thank you. Your welcome.
Don't supposse a CSM member might be interested in raising the possibility of a limited run of Vinyl should the original recordings exist?
Be willing to pay a premium for it, say $100 if it gets it done. Maybe Kickstarter?
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Whitehound
1895
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Posted - 2013.08.21 21:50:00 -
[67] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.
Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.
vs.
The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference". No, just you are wrong. It is not science versus religion, but science versus nature. It always has been.
It is not the difference, but a difference these people are hearing. When you talk about the difference, then you are talking about what has been lost in the digital conversion. It is this one difference, which science proves cannot be heard by most people and it is also what science only cares about.
There is however more than one difference here and you do not get that. Hearing a difference does not mean people are lying about the difference, but they say that they actually hear a difference and one science does not care about.
When sound is being converted from analogue into digital does this not happen through a divine event, but it passes through electronic equipment and each equipment posses a sound characteristic. Anything, from microphones to speakers, posses a sound characteristic. This includes A/D and D/A converters, too.
The way an A/D converter works requires it to hold the signal for a certain time until it has been digitized. There are many implementations for A/D converters, but a popular one is a successive approximation of the input signal by using a comparator and to compare the input to the output of a D/A converter until all bits have been matched. In order to achieve this is the input signal stored in a capacitor. The method is nothing short of brutal to anyone familiar with analogue electronics. Even capacitors have a characteristic.
If one gets to hear music, which is being played through the same equipment chain from which the A/D converter receives it, then it already posses a characteristic before it is being digitized. This makes it rather difficult to hear a difference, because there is not any.
For audiophile people is it all about finding the right analogue components and to match them so that it produces the best sound. There is certainly a difference that one can hear. Just find the nearest pro hifi store, find their demo room and listen to various combinations of equipment. You can hear it, too. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12210
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Posted - 2013.08.21 21:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are the result of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38396
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Posted - 2013.08.21 22:09:00 -
[69] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: Was that "musical" training specifically working as a studio and/or audio engineer?
1 year of that in addition to 7 years of actual music studies and performing. Concurrent actually.
I know how to 'hear a room' quite well thank you. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38396
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Posted - 2013.08.21 22:11:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc)
The Trolls are just going to deny your real life experience.
It's the Way of the Interweb.
edit:
God GÇÅ@TheTweetOfGod
"Aren't I allowed to have an opinion?" is what people say when they have a stupid opinion. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12211
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Posted - 2013.08.21 22:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc) The Trolls are just going to deny your real life experience. It's the Way of the Interweb. edit: God GÇÅ@TheTweetOfGod "Aren't I allowed to have an opinion?" is what people say when they have a stupid opinion.
Heh 15 years of working to get a good sound into an extremely musically hostile environment has made me a bit of an audio snob, quality gear and a decent recording make all the difference.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3320
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Posted - 2013.08.21 22:19:00 -
[72] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc)
Except that analog recordings have frequency response limitations that exist *within* the range of human hearing. That warmth and clarity you perceive is being generated by the playback equipment and not the recording. The original sound engineers involved in the mastering also have a bit to do with it.
That's why tube preamps are so darn awesome in any home audio setup, because they bring that analog "feeling" to the party whether the original source material is analog or digital.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3320
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:25:00 -
[73] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Doc Fury wrote: Was that "musical" training specifically working as a studio and/or audio engineer?
1 year of that in addition to 7 years of actual music studies and performing. Concurrent actually.
O.K. so you you are a musician and not a audio or studio engineer, check.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Whitehound
1895
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Except that analog recordings have frequency response limitations that exist *within* the range of human hearing. That warmth and clarity you perceive is being generated by the playback equipment and not the recording. Nonsense. Echoes, hall, vibrations, distortions, dampening and other effects all take place at any frequency. Even when you measure the frequency range of a component do you use a measuring device, which in itself posses characteristics that you cannot deny. You still do not get that these all play a role in what we hear in the end. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Whitehound
1897
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:O.K. so you you are a musician and not a audio or studio engineer, check. Most studio engineers can play an instrument and musicians know about their instruments and have a good hearing.
Trolls on the other hand do not need intelligence and in fact troll better without. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38396
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
1 year of that in addition to 7 years of actual music studies and performing. Concurrent actually.
O.K. so you you are a musician and not a audio or studio engineer, check.
I feel sorry for you and your sad, bored life.
So much determination and gumption, going to waste on Interwebz Forumz.
edit: Actually....denying professional experience which is indeed applicable to this situation is approaching the area of personal attack.
I'm reading your stuff REAL closely now. I'd tread lightly if I were you. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12212
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc) Except that analog recordings have frequency response limitations that exist *within* the range of human hearing. Those limitations depend on the recording media used. That warmth and clarity you perceive is being generated by the playback equipment and not the recording. The original sound engineers involved in the mastering also have a bit to do with it. That's why tube preamps are so darn awesome in any home audio setup, because they bring that analog "feeling" to the party whether the original source material is analog or digital. I partially agree, some of the warmth is from the components used to produce the sound, a decent amp and speakers can make the world of difference to an otherwise lacklustre recording.
If however you compare the same piece of music, one of which was recorded digitally and the other analogue, there is a difference in the way each sounds, even when played back on the same equipment. It's one of the reasons some prefer vinyl over CD, FLAC over MP3 etc, they just sound better because there is no artificial "clipping" of the frequencies, in short they're not so clinical.
Tube preamps are awesome, they're well worth the investment if you can afford them.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38397
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bah! Give it up Jonah. It's just feeding him at this point.
He's the kind who would argue that "2001" is a terrible science fiction film because it doesn't have any lazerz pew-pew. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12213
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Bah! Give it up Jonah. It's just feeding him at this point.
He's the kind who would argue that "2001" is a terrible science fiction film because it doesn't have any lazerz pew-pew. On that note Arthur C Clarke should sue Apple for "copyright infringementGäó", I saw an iPad/ tablet prototype in 2001.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3321
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:54:00 -
[80] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Except that analog recordings have frequency response limitations that exist *within* the range of human hearing. That warmth and clarity you perceive is being generated by the playback equipment and not the recording. Nonsense. Echoes, hall, vibrations, distortions, dampening and other effects all take place at any frequency. Even when you measure the frequency range of a component do you use a measuring device, which in itself posses characteristics that you cannot deny. You still do not get that these all play a role in what we hear in the end.
If the tape being used to record has an upper frequency limit of 18Khz, any vibrations or distortions that occur at 19Khz or above (for instance) are not recorded. That's all I am saying, there are limits to what gets captured/recorded. I am not arguing the equipment in the chain has no affect on the final product because they definitely do, and is one of the reasons DOLBY noise reduction was created.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3321
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Posted - 2013.08.21 23:00:00 -
[81] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Bah! Give it up Jonah. It's just feeding him at this point.
He's the kind who would argue that "2001" is a terrible science fiction film because it doesn't have any lazerz pew-pew.
[citation needed]
2001 was an awesome movie. I even have it on laser disk if you want to get into that discussion.
Thou dost assume to much about Doc methinks. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38398
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 23:17:00 -
[82] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:
2001 was an awesome movie. I even have it on laser disk if you want to get into that discussion.
Thou dost assume to much about Doc methinks.
Your otherwise stubborn determination to be "absolutely correct and king and guardian of all Correct Knowledge" is not only unbecoming and immature, it's the same problem that has been affecting the American political system for the past 5 years.
Without compromise, nobody gets anywhere.
It's the 21st Century mental plague.
Too bad nobody has really discussed the beautiful music involved in Kirjava's OP Topic.
We should all be banned for off topic posting tbh. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3321
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 23:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
2001 was an awesome movie. I even have it on laser disk if you want to get into that discussion.
Thou dost assume to much about Doc methinks.
Your otherwise stubborn determination to be "absolutely correct and king and guardian of all Correct Knowledge" is not only unbecoming and immature, it's the same problem that has been affecting the American political system for the past 5 years.
So, now this is a politics thread?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38398
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 23:34:00 -
[84] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:
So, now this is a politics thread?
Not anymore than it's a Stanley Kubrick Thread. |
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
32154
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Posted - 2013.08.21 23:53:00 -
[85] - Quote
Am I the only person surprised this isn't in OOPE given its turned into a debate on audio engineering, yet everything else gets sent there without much reason?
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12221
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 00:04:00 -
[86] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Am I the only person surprised this isn't in OOPE given its turned into a debate on audio engineering, yet everything else gets sent there without much reason? I wish the mods were a little more selective about what they send there, some of the threads they've forwarded to OOPE are so bad they would make 4chan cringe.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38404
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 00:10:00 -
[87] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Am I the only person surprised this isn't in OOPE given its turned into a debate on audio engineering, yet everything else gets sent there without much reason?
IKNOWRITE ? |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
225
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 14:54:00 -
[88] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.
Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.
vs.
The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference". I guess my 7 years of musical training tricks me into what I'm hearing. Oh brother.
No, your brain tricks you. My 20 years of musical training has nothing to do with it, I assure you.
But hey why would you argue facts when there are beliefs to be bandied about?
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Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2091
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Posted - 2013.08.24 16:41:00 -
[89] - Quote
I'd let it go, Eram. Literally hundreds of studies have been done which show the same thing, but the audiophile will still claim he is special and can hear the difference.
Worse, he/she will claim the difference is "stark", "Night and day", "palpable", "definitely there", "obvious", or will generally act smug, superior, or just do the whole 'fake pity' thing where they feel 'sorry' that you can't hear what they're able to hear the moment they put on a vinyl.
Of course, the second you start testing whether they can hear these "night and day" differences, they suddenly can't. It's a guess. A coin flip. They have no idea which is which. Oh, they will claim right here they can, not understanding the need for the type of double-blind test that proves they can't, and why they're only hearing the difference because they're telling themselves they can hear it.
The audiophile will always believe that every single fact and piece of evidence to the contrary of what they believe is wrong for some reason, despite the very same scientific methods they claim are so faulty being the basis of such things as modern medicine and virtually our entire understanding of how the universe works, including (ironically) the technology they listen to the music on.
It's like me claiming my T-shirt is better than yours because it lets me fly, but I can't show you because when someone watches it doesn't work. Is it childish? No, it's bizarre, but the audiophile delusion isn't the only one our brains let us believe against all available evidence. We're very illogical creatures when we get down to it. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
39465
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 16:45:00 -
[90] - Quote
All I know is, I have turntable and cd player.
I can play my 30th Anniversary vinyl press of Pink Floyd DSoM, and then play the cd.
There is a vast difference. Whether on is 'better' than the other, is a subtle matter of preference.
Both are excellent. the CD sound is definitely crisper and clearer.
I prefer the vinyl sound. The 'crispness' of the CD just feels wrong to me. Repeat: to me.
That's about all anyone can really say. |
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