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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
394
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Posted - 2013.07.31 18:58:00 -
[1051] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Harvey James wrote:Kais Fiddler wrote:It's too bad that CCP probably won't deign to fix the Deimos. The vagabond gets the velocity bonus baked in but the deimos won't get the cap bonus? Ridiculous. I was hoping to actually fly one after it got buffed. I was hoping to fly an blaster eagle but alas .... Will probably survive longer than Diemost to catch reps and can also spew blaster ammo at almost double optimal Deimos range.
well maybe ... but being slower and doing diddly squat damage won't be worth the bother either way. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1029
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:00:00 -
[1052] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Vagabond I'm not happy with the Shield Boost Bonus, BUT, there is a way to make it workable. Give it more powergrid. With more powergrid (5-10% more) It will be able to fit 425s (making it a better kiter with added range so that way it can compete with the Cynabal, but not make it outright better and therefore continuing the arms race) OR fit 220s and an ASB without an ancillary rig (because honestly, nobody fits 180s for a reason) More PG, then ill be happy
Drop a low for a mid would help too. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1029
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:04:00 -
[1053] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: So its terrible DPS will be replaced with Mediocre DPS and it will lose tracking and a Medium neut as a result.
Oh that makes me so happy.
I'm sure the Vaga is the second most used HAC in the game atm because of it's terrible dps.
It might be more of a comment about the other hacs than it is about the vagabond.
BTW: where do you get that statistic? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
76
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:10:00 -
[1054] - Quote
Cearain wrote:BTW: where do you get that statistic? It's from CCP Rise in this exact thread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3414487#post3414487 |
Blastil
The Reblier Alliance
93
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:15:00 -
[1055] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: So its terrible DPS will be replaced with Mediocre DPS and it will lose tracking and a Medium neut as a result.
Oh that makes me so happy.
I'm sure the Vaga is the second most used HAC in the game atm because of it's terrible dps. It might be more of a comment about the other hacs than it is about the vagabond. BTW: where do you get that statistic?
Rise just quoted it somewhere in here. Use dev post finder.
the vaga is fine with these changes. minmatar ships have the best damage projection of any ship in the game. The reality is that teh vaga applies its dps almost perfectly, compared to a missile or blaster boat, which might do MORE damage on paper, but less actual damage. |
Sigras
Conglomo
472
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:16:00 -
[1056] - Quote
What HACs need is a differentiation from battlecruisers; thats the problem. They overlap in several areas: they do similar DPS, they have similar EHP, (in the case of the new ABCs) they have similar speed
What HACs do have over battlecruisers: smaller sig radius slightly faster slightly tougher (even though they have similar EHP they tend to have better resists because theyre T2)
all for a 4X cost increase.
If it were up to me, I would have HACs focus on survivability, and have faction cruisers focus on speed or damage mitigation.
This would set them apart from the battlecruisers in a meaningful way.
Historically battle cruisers have been up-gunned cruisers doing more damage from a lighter hull, so why dont we keep with that and have HACs focus on the "heavy" part making them tanky damage platforms. |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1029
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:28:00 -
[1057] - Quote
Thanks. That posts suggests that the vaga is used about as much as the omen in pvp. I knew the vaga wasn't used often but I didn't think it was that bad. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Fewell
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:31:00 -
[1058] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Fewell wrote: The shield boosting bonus isn't a bad bonus, but it doesn't fit with the way most Vagas get flown. Another falloff bonus would allow a Vaga pilot to take advantage of selectable damage ammo at point range. Right now you have to load barrage.
Sooo... Loading long range ammo to be able to do damage at the longest unbonused point range is a bad thing? I want my Thorax to do 300 dps at 25km with Antimatter then. The Thorax isn't a HAC getting a new bonus now. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
349
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:40:00 -
[1059] - Quote
Sigras wrote:What HACs need is a differentiation from battlecruisers; thats the problem. They overlap in several areas: they do similar DPS, they have similar EHP, (in the case of the new ABCs) they have similar speed
What HACs do have over battlecruisers: smaller sig radius slightly faster slightly tougher (even though they have similar EHP they tend to have better resists because theyre T2)
all for a 4X cost increase.
If it were up to me, I would have HACs focus on survivability, and have faction cruisers focus on speed or damage mitigation.
This would set them apart from the battlecruisers in a meaningful way.
Historically battle cruisers have been up-gunned cruisers doing more damage from a lighter hull, so why dont we keep with that and have HACs focus on the "heavy" part making them tanky damage platforms. Your problem is that you consider ABC and CBC as one single ship. HAC have double the ehp of ABC, or a lot more speed than CBC, but CBC are still a lot slower than HAC, and ABC are still a lot less resilient than HAC (and a lot more vulnerable to frigates in general).
That being said, now compare AF to destroyers : they have similar firepower and tank, and more speed, on top of more resistances and less signature, and of course this MWD sig bonus.
You see : it's the same. HAC relate to BC in the same way AF relate to destroyers. The difference might only lie in the meta : BS are a lot less common than cruisers, hence destroyers are a lot more endangered by their natural predators (cruisers) than BC are endangered (only common predator of BC is blob). The second thing is the price barrier : price of an AF is fairly cheap for most standard whereas price of HAC is rather high for most. Yet, if you look at the graph CCP Rise showed, the MWD bonus will make them a lot more resistant to ABC, potentialy allowing HAC to counter ABC.
I don't see many predators to these HAC in fact, exactly like AF.
And the problem I forgot : T3 cruisers which actually render them redundant despite the price difference. Good news though : they are tackled by the nerfbat. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
640
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:42:00 -
[1060] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Thanks. That posts suggests that the vaga is used about as much as the omen in pvp. I knew the vaga wasn't used often but I didn't think it was that bad. You underestimate the usage of those ships. The Omen is incredible |
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
349
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:47:00 -
[1061] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Always wanting to have the largest guns and full tank without using fitting mods. Makes no sense for anyone to buy a car and once you get it you just figure out you can't do more than15 miles with, so you buy and extra tank and fix it at the baggage place, that's it but now you can't go anywhere your fuel tank aloud you because you can't take any baggage. That's pretty much the CCP balance god mode here. That's not the good comparison : your are asking your car to be able to sustain tank fire, to fire back and to still be as fast and cheap as she already is. When it's possible, it's illegal. |
Cearain
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1029
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:49:00 -
[1062] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Cearain wrote:Thanks. That posts suggests that the vaga is used about as much as the omen in pvp. I knew the vaga wasn't used often but I didn't think it was that bad. You underestimate the usage of those ships. The Omen is incredible
I haven't seen an omen in a pvp setting since the changes so I couldn't really over or underestimate it.
Where is everyone flying omens in pvp these days? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1381
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Posted - 2013.07.31 19:54:00 -
[1063] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Harvey James wrote:Kais Fiddler wrote:It's too bad that CCP probably won't deign to fix the Deimos. The vagabond gets the velocity bonus baked in but the deimos won't get the cap bonus? Ridiculous. I was hoping to actually fly one after it got buffed. I was hoping to fly an blaster eagle but alas .... Will probably survive longer than Diemost to catch reps and can also spew blaster ammo at almost double optimal Deimos range. well maybe ... but being slower and doing diddly squat damage won't be worth the bother either way. The damage is inline with the range, but the Deimos fall off bonus kinda makes the range on bonus on the Eagle kinda underwhelming. If the falloff bonus on the Deimos was changed to a tracking bonus they would both be very useful as both blaster or rail platforms. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
396
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:03:00 -
[1064] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Harvey James wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Harvey James wrote:Kais Fiddler wrote:It's too bad that CCP probably won't deign to fix the Deimos. The vagabond gets the velocity bonus baked in but the deimos won't get the cap bonus? Ridiculous. I was hoping to actually fly one after it got buffed. I was hoping to fly an blaster eagle but alas .... Will probably survive longer than Diemost to catch reps and can also spew blaster ammo at almost double optimal Deimos range. well maybe ... but being slower and doing diddly squat damage won't be worth the bother either way. The damage is inline with the range, but the Deimos fall off bonus kinda makes the range on bonus on the Eagle kinda underwhelming. If the falloff bonus on the Deimos was changed to a tracking bonus they would both be very useful as both blaster or rail platforms.
The lack of low slots also hurt the eagle...3/4 is mags just too get 370 dps at 20km with null at lv5 HAC i might add doing about 1600m/s with a massive sig and only 1 slot left for a choice of either nano/TE or damage control... for 200mil i mean come on its taking the **** when a Talos can do 900dps at 15km and what 1700m/s for a overall shorter training time and and half the price..
Again with the tracking bonus on Deimos is pointless as the thorax or brutix navy issue can do the exact same thing at least as a mini durable talos that can armour tank or shield tank well and is much more mobile than the talos it has a useful role and some uniqueness rather than a T2 thorax Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
J A Aloysiusz
Precision Strike Brigade Angeli Mortis
20
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:24:00 -
[1065] - Quote
Diemost needs PWG buff.
It's silly that it can't fit its guns with a 1600 plate and its *bonused* MWD. Let alone trying to fit rails on that thing. Not that you would, since rails already track like a drunk chick looking for the toilet, and they're about to be made worse, in that respect. |
glepp
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
92
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:26:00 -
[1066] - Quote
The Deimos, which I love so much, needs to have the MWD bonus baked into it's cap and replaced with a tracking bonus if you're going to pidgeonhole it into a rail boat like you are atm. Removing the HPs on the HAC with the biggest sig really makes it a tough sell as a close range brawler.
So three options, one of which would imo would bring it on par:
1. Remove gun slot, increase damage to compensate granting a utility high. 2. Replace cap bonus with tracking bonus (needed for both blasters at close range and rails) and increase innate cap. 3. Give it back it's freaking HP, dude. It needs it since it can't sigtank like the Zealot.
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Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
826
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:28:00 -
[1067] - Quote
Vagabad needs PWG buff.
I want to use arties/425mm on it. |
Sigras
Conglomo
473
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:30:00 -
[1068] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: With the exception of the Rook, all the Combat recons are amazing and are completely worth the cost.
i do admit they are used. but as heavy tackle not as e-war platforms. might aswell just get rid of the e-war aspect and make them heavy interceptors then. WTB non useless Lachesis fit . . . |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
641
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:33:00 -
[1069] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Vagabad needs PWG buff.
I want to use arties/425mm on it. The Deimos needs 13.000 pwg and 800 CPU. I want to use Large guns and double XL ASB. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1189
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:41:00 -
[1070] - Quote
Sigras wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote: With the exception of the Rook, all the Combat recons are amazing and are completely worth the cost.
i do admit they are used. but as heavy tackle not as e-war platforms. might aswell just get rid of the e-war aspect and make them heavy interceptors then. WTB non useless Lachesis fit . . .
For roaming its not bad You slap on a mwd a long point a scram and shield tank.
Then nano the lows and add a dcu ii
Shield extender rigs and fit some missiles/nuets There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |
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Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
827
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:48:00 -
[1071] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Vagabad needs PWG buff.
I want to use arties/425mm on it. The Deimos needs 13.000 pwg and 800 CPU. I want to use Large guns and double XL ASB.
Talos already exists. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
642
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Posted - 2013.07.31 20:56:00 -
[1072] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Vagabad needs PWG buff.
I want to use arties/425mm on it. The Deimos needs 13.000 pwg and 800 CPU. I want to use Large guns and double XL ASB. Talos already exists. So does Tornado |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
827
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 21:02:00 -
[1073] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote:Diesel47 wrote:Vagabad needs PWG buff.
I want to use arties/425mm on it. The Deimos needs 13.000 pwg and 800 CPU. I want to use Large guns and double XL ASB. Talos already exists. So does Tornado
Nobody fits 425mm and medium arties to tornado. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
450
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Posted - 2013.07.31 21:13:00 -
[1074] - Quote
hmm
these ships should be good for roaming and smaller gatecamps right?
so make them able to keep pace with cynabal the current fotm roaming ship --> better align time pls , and maybe if i could go to sniper range and back to gate with my eagle quickly that would help a lot too
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Leskit
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
37
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Posted - 2013.07.31 21:33:00 -
[1075] - Quote
Still underwhelmed with the Sacrelige and especially Eagle. Sac still needs that 6th low slot, and so does the ishtar. They're both armor ships, right? right? (well, passive ishtar too).
Eagle is probably going to still be useless.
Why take away soooo much hp from the deimos? Did it kill you too many times to let it have some hp left? |
AstraPardus
THE INSURGENCY The Unthinkables
274
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Posted - 2013.07.31 21:36:00 -
[1076] - Quote
Amarr: That's nice, capacitor recharge is nice for most Amarr ships, but IMO is too much on a missile boat.
Caldari: That's nice. Blaster Eagle should be more interesting...
Gallente: Semi-buff on the Deimos, me likey. I might fly this again. Ishtar, however...yes...yes!! One of the things that I like most about drone boats is the versatility of the arment. By giving different bonuses to Heavy and Sentry drones, makes this a very compelling new and improved Ishtar!
Minmatar: The Vaga is now that much harder to kill...thanks. -__- Muninn, that's nice.
Overall: Handshakes and stiff drinks are in order. Every time I post is Pardy time! :3 |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
450
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Posted - 2013.07.31 21:51:00 -
[1077] - Quote
btw ishtar gets lame double bonuses why other ships cant get those? like 7.5% optimal and tracking for med hybrids instead of 10% optimal /lvl for the eagle?
oh any other bonuses gets implemented into the ship hull then why cant the 4%/lvl resist bonus put directly into the eagle hull and give it another bonus? |
Kais Fiddler
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2013.07.31 22:08:00 -
[1078] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:btw ishtar gets lame double bonuses why other ships cant get those? like 7.5% optimal and tracking for med hybrids instead of 10% optimal /lvl for the eagle?
oh any other bonuses gets implemented into the ship hull then why cant the 4%/lvl resist bonus put directly into the eagle hull and give it another bonus? The resist bonus is far more powerful than the speed or cap recharge bonus. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
450
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Posted - 2013.07.31 22:26:00 -
[1079] - Quote
Kais Fiddler wrote:Naomi Knight wrote:btw ishtar gets lame double bonuses why other ships cant get those? like 7.5% optimal and tracking for med hybrids instead of 10% optimal /lvl for the eagle?
oh any other bonuses gets implemented into the ship hull then why cant the 4%/lvl resist bonus put directly into the eagle hull and give it another bonus? The resist bonus is far more powerful than the speed or cap recharge bonus. not at all , i would take that speed bonus over resist anytime for a roaming sniper ship
btw speed bonus if better ,if you sig tank anyway , not only it lowers the chance you being hit/missile dmg, it allows you to control range which is probably the most important part of pvp in eve |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
241
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Posted - 2013.07.31 22:32:00 -
[1080] - Quote
Blastil wrote: the vaga is fine with these changes. minmatar ships have the best damage projection of any ship in the game. The reality is that teh vaga applies its dps almost perfectly, compared to a missile or blaster boat, which might do MORE damage on paper, but less actual damage.
You forget that Projectiles lose DPS over range, unlike missiles. At 20-30k half of the Vaga's DPS is lost to range, before tracking comes into play. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
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