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Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2011.10.26 19:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Not convinced on the blaster changes - #1 : Since when has fitting been the primary issue?.
As far as #2 goes, the 20% tracking buff, to put it into context you have to recall the 400% change that occured with QR in 2008 and the way the tracking formula works up close. Once you do that, you see it really doesn't change much at all...
*sad face*
+1 even the lesser people do deserve more(j/k I love people that willingly come to my tackle range, I really do)
I did a write up on the new BCs in the feedback official thread.
Overall the blaster changes are not really impressive on gallente hulls and is still somewhat useless on caldari hulls, the Oneiros change is pretty subpar and should focus a lot more and capacitor, speed, fitting and drones(a lot more like 75m or even 125m drone bandwide). |
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 19:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Not convinced on the blaster changes - #1 : Since when has fitting been the primary issue?.
As far as #2 goes, the 20% tracking buff, to put it into context you have to recall the 400% change that occured with QR in 2008 and the way the tracking formula works up close. Once you do that, you see it really doesn't change much at all...
*sad face*
It'd be pretty hilarious if the speed and agility increases on hybrid ships outweighed the increase to blaster tracking, making blasters even worse than they are now. And this is NOT some far-fetched theory once MWDs are in play.... |
Brynhilda
Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis
60
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Posted - 2011.10.26 20:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Zoe Alarhun wrote:I love this:
Destroyers receive increased HP and capacitor, and significantly decreased sig radius Destroyers no longer have a rate of fire penalty The easier fittings for rails and blasters will make the Caldari and Gallente destroyers worth a revisit.
Now if we could only buff the Coercer... How may I drug you with drugs? |
Dessau
5
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Posted - 2011.10.26 20:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Interesting proposals. Better still, the commentary here.
Too soon to dust off all those Tristans I've amassed, but Destroyers V looks like a worthy goal. |
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
38
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Posted - 2011.10.26 20:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
uh - why wouldn't you fly a tristan even as is ? That little thing is crazy insane at friggin killing stuff. I should know, it's my mainstay ship. |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 21:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:
PS: haven't seen blasters T2 ammo get rid of tracking penalty? -T2 missiles, crystals and projectiles yes...
Tiny correction....
One shortrange ammo was changed, hail.
It was the longrange gun ammo that was changed, except for that.
IE. Conflag/scorch/null/void/barrage unchanged, though I am sure they are working hard to buff barrage as we speak.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
197
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Posted - 2011.10.26 22:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
You people are overlooking the best part of this: T2 remote hull repair.
Hull tanking spider fleet of DOOOOOOOM. |
Carmen Martino
Wormhole Exploration Crew Transmission Lost
0
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Posted - 2011.10.26 23:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Not convinced on the blaster changes - #1 : Since when has fitting been the primary issue?.
As far as #2 goes, the 20% tracking buff, to put it into context you have to recall the 400% change that occured with QR in 2008 and the way the tracking formula works up close. Once you do that, you see it really doesn't change much at all...
*sad face*
Have you ever flown ANYTHING that uses hybrids? My guess is no. |
Dro Nee
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 00:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
T2 ganglinks....
So a BoosterLoki now gives a 49% increase to tackle range? Hopefully my math is off. Otherwise: WTB Booster Alt |
Cunane Jeran
17
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Posted - 2011.10.27 01:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Looking forward to the hybrid changes in there, should open up some interesting new PvE and PvP fits for Gallente.
Happy they went with a damage increase and the fitting reduction on Rails instead of tracking increase
Also all the Gallente getting a speed and Agil boost, very tasty.
Though I suspect this is all very subject to change. |
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Zarnak Wulf
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2011.10.27 03:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
The Caldari rail platforms all got a serious boost. The eagle and ferox look like they can fit the largest set of rails and a LSE tank as well - with only one fitting mod.
A 150mm Rail II fit Cormorant with faction antimatter looks like it can get within 13 DPS of a 280II Arty thrasher with double the optimal.
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2011.10.27 03:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:The Caldari rail platforms all got a serious boost. The eagle and ferox look like they can fit the largest set of rails and a LSE tank as well - with only one fitting mod. A 150mm Rail II fit Cormorant with faction antimatter looks like it can get within 13 DPS of a 280II Arty thrasher with double the optimal.
It's the volley, not dps...
Yeah, rails still suck |
Tefries Lurgoyf
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 03:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: Where does the simple fact of having more pg and better tank makes you think sutch silly things? sriously?
PS: haven't seen blasters T2 ammo get rid of tracking penalty? -T2 missiles, crystals and projectiles yes...
Its a worse ship with those changes thats why. The PG is nice, the slot change blows.
Here is the only good oneiros fit currently, pre changes.
[Oneiros] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
10MN Afterburner II Phased Muon ECCM Caster I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I ECCM - Magnetometric II ECCM - Magnetometric II
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
It helps two guards and gets cap from one of them, and is actually pretty useful to field this setup. You get 3 logistics pretty much immune to ECM.
Now show me a Oneiros fit that would have a place in a organized fleet that isnt inferior to the gaurd. You said you wanted to fly a oneiros without being told to get into a guard... Show me a new fit that people would be happy to see in fleet instead of a guard for any reason.
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2011.10.27 03:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tefries Lurgoyf wrote:Tanya Powers wrote: Where does the simple fact of having more pg and better tank makes you think sutch silly things? sriously?
PS: haven't seen blasters T2 ammo get rid of tracking penalty? -T2 missiles, crystals and projectiles yes...
Its a worse ship with those changes thats why. The PG is nice, the slot change blows. Here is the only good oneiros fit currently, pre changes. [Oneiros] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 10MN Afterburner II Phased Muon ECCM Caster I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I ECCM - Magnetometric II ECCM - Magnetometric II Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 It helps two guards and gets cap from one of them, and is actually pretty useful to field this setup. You get 3 logistics pretty much immune to ECM. Now show me a Oneiros fit that would have a place in a organized fleet that isnt inferior to the gaurd. You said you wanted to fly a oneiros without being told to get into a guard... Show me a new fit that people would be happy to see in fleet instead of a guard for any reason.
What's with all that eccms? Dude, your onerios fails. |
Demon Azrakel
Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck
44
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Posted - 2011.10.27 03:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tefries Lurgoyf wrote:Tanya Powers wrote: Where does the simple fact of having more pg and better tank makes you think sutch silly things? sriously?
PS: haven't seen blasters T2 ammo get rid of tracking penalty? -T2 missiles, crystals and projectiles yes...
Its a worse ship with those changes thats why. The PG is nice, the slot change blows. Here is the only good oneiros fit currently, pre changes. [Oneiros] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 10MN Afterburner II Phased Muon ECCM Caster I Phased Muon ECCM Caster I ECCM - Magnetometric II ECCM - Magnetometric II Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 It helps two guards and gets cap from one of them, and is actually pretty useful to field this setup. You get 3 logistics pretty much immune to ECM. Now show me a Oneiros fit that would have a place in a organized fleet that isnt inferior to the gaurd. You said you wanted to fly a oneiros without being told to get into a guard... Show me a new fit that people would be happy to see in fleet instead of a guard for any reason.
Lol, I got bashed hard for linking what is pretty much the same fit (lazy low slots for multiboxing, prob actually would have used faction or c-type eanms given the t2 rigs I used for 4x rr) in the Onieros vs the world thread ... |
Tefries Lurgoyf
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.10.27 03:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:What's with all that eccms? Dude, your onerios fails.
2 are projected eccms.
You can post a better oneiros fit too :) gohead dont be shy man. |
Auria McGlennen
Saberick Interest and Development FreiTek Heavy Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 04:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Really upset that they didn't touch the Keres and Hyena. Compared to the Amarr and Caldari versions of Electronic Attack Ships these two are pretty scattered bonus wise. A focused bonus for the two mentioned would have been easy, and nice. |
Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 05:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
people, the gallente arent getting agility buffs, theyre getting agility nerfs. minor speed buffs.
hybrids look like they might work. blasters are still not nearly as competitive as pulses and AC's. hope to see more changes soon. |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.10.27 09:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think it's buffs, actually. |
Deerin
Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
6
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Posted - 2011.10.27 10:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tefries Lurgoyf wrote:Goose99 wrote:What's with all that eccms? Dude, your onerios fails. 2 are projected eccms. You can post a better oneiros fit too :) gohead dont be shy man.
For small armor gangs with mandatory MWD, the "Lonely Medic" Oneiros
[Oneiros, Solo Logi Oneiros] Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
For larger armor fleets, the "Free of Chains" Oneiros
[Oneiros, Free of Chains] Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
10MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
I'm not claiming that it is better than Guardian. But it is a viable alternative that although lacking in ECCM it makes up for it by being independent of chains, thus being able to disengage without endangering logistics energy chain core.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries Dark Phoenix Rising.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.27 12:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Not going to start freaking out and posting CCP hate tirades quite yet as all info is subject to change. However I do have to say that the prelim stats on the BC are beyond broken... They have the speed and sig of a large Cruiser however each has 8 turrets/launchers (wtf) and enough range to obsolete many of the current hacs and BC gangs....
Sorry CCP but if you want these ships to be at all balanced they are going to need the speed and sig of a BC, not a cruiser.... As well as 6-7 turrets max. We don't need 1400+ dps ships that fly at 2k/s and cost sub 50mill... Oh yeah, one other tid bit. Why the **** is it easier for a BC to fit a full rack of Highest tier guns when compared to a BS?
As far as the changes to hybrids... Not a bad start. The fitting req changes and increased dmg to rails and tracking to basters should most certainly make a notable difference. I'd still opt for a small increase in either blaster range or damage but these changes are a good start.
Now about the changes to Gallente ships. Speed increase is nice but nothing significant however the nerf to agility is just a ******* slap in the face... I demand an answer CCP... why are these ships being nerfed in such a ridiculous manner? |
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
42
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Posted - 2011.10.27 12:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better. Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings). Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.
so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries Dark Phoenix Rising.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.27 12:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Zoe Alarhun wrote:The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better. Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings). Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.
so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath.
LSE buffer tanks are easy enough to fit on these leaked ships... If anything the increased range, speed, and reduced sig will allow these ships to have greater survivability than many of the current BCs while getting close to 50% more dps...
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Bull Eramix
Mimidae Risk Solutions
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 12:47:00 -
[54] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode |
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
42
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Posted - 2011.10.27 12:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lets use the gallente ship as a example - with LSE buffer it has about 24K EHp - that's almost the same as some T1 cruisers. Hardly the equal of a drake or hurricane. If you make the ship tankier than it has about the same HP as a brutix with slightly higher damage (marginally).
Hardly 50% more dps with same tank and greater speed. So please stop fear mongering.
EDIT: Bull Eramix I can't see any of your posts - error parsing BBC code. |
Bull Eramix
Mimidae Risk Solutions
0
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Posted - 2011.10.27 12:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
Zoe Alarhun wrote:The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better. Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings). Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.
so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath.
Are you sure?
From: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Acceleration
"There are two attributes which determine how quickly a ship accelerates; mass and an Inertial Modifiers, both of which can be helped using an Inertia Stabilizer on your ship. The product of mass and the inertia stabilizer values gives the ship's agility which determines how quickly the ship accelerates (and thus how quickly it turns); lower values imply better acceleration and turning speed."
Tech II Inertia Stab from: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Inertia_Stabilizers_II
-20% to Inertia modifier
Within a class you can compare as ships have closer masses. Between classes IM is a 'fudge factor' adjusting the ships mass' to the desired agilities. |
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
42
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Posted - 2011.10.27 12:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
Compare a thorax to a stabber - thorax has higher IM. but the stabber is more agile - It's due to the increase in mass over stabber. If you look at all the high speed frigates they have IM stats over 4.
EDIT - I realize that fitting I stabs in game brings the modifier down. I 'm looking at it from the info dump perspective where high value = better. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries Dark Phoenix Rising.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.27 13:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Hardly 50% more dps with same tank and greater speed.
You're the one who said this, not me champ. Never did I say that a Tier 3 is going to have the "same" tank as a lesser tier BC. I said that they will probably have MORE survivability than the lesser tier BC due to significant range, speed, and sig advantages...
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Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
42
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Posted - 2011.10.27 13:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Zoe Alarhun wrote:The agility isn't getting nerfed. The stat called agility in the dump refers to inertia modifier - higher IM the better. Also new BC's have way less tank by the looks of it (half or third as much depending on ship and fittings). Also no drones to help defend against smaller ships.
so put down the keyboard and step away from the computer and take a deep breath. LSE buffer tanks are easy enough to fit on these leaked ships... If anything the increased range, speed, and reduced sig will allow these ships to have greater survivability than many of the current BCs while getting close to 50% more dps...
You are the one mentioning LSE buffer. You are the one mentioning 50% greater dps.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Shadow Legion Industries Dark Phoenix Rising.
9
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Posted - 2011.10.27 13:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
You are the one mentioning LSE buffer. You are the one mentioning 50% greater dps.
Thanks for letting me know what i posted bro. Honestly done with responding to this drivel. If you're unwilling to use more than an ounce of that brain stew you got upstairs then this debate is done. GL running the numbers and eating your foot.
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