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Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2013.06.26 00:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:The answer is armor fleet incursions. It is the ship of choice to the point where you will see entire fleets of them with only other ship being logi.
Legion gangs where phased out as armor incision fleet doctrine last year after the VG changes...
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
331
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Posted - 2013.06.26 01:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote:What is its next best function? Even if there are better ships for the task what else do people use the legion for? I ask because its gonna take me a while to train for the legion and t3s are gonna be rebalanced so im predicting that my training into the legion will prove to be worthwhile
I have a legion for WH, which is pimped to **** and can do C1 - C3 easily, and a warpy/cloaky Legion for doing null sec anoms up to 7/10. To be honest I haven't had an 8/10 to try it out in, but it does 7/10 easily against EM/Therm rats (provided you use your brain, usually in the last room).
I was going to get one as a gang booster, but looking at the available stats and fits, I'm thinking I'll train up for a Damnation instead. |
Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly
162
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Posted - 2013.06.26 02:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
destiny2 wrote:Hakaimono wrote:Caleidascope wrote:No ammo in wh. This basically. Even though Blood Raiders and Sansha are weak to EM, the neuts and TD makes the Tengu preferable for some since neither affects missiles. cough ham legion cough Doh! Forgot about that |
Froggy Storm
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
52
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Posted - 2013.06.26 09:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
Op, firstly I have to agree with the aesthetics of the Lego. I flew it pretty much dedicated for a while and love it. If you are strictly looking PvP wise however the Lego just doesn't fit very well in the current meta of the game.
As a laser ahac for example, the utility and extra tank just are not enough to make up for the cost difference on the zealot.
For fast SIG tank gangs the T1 cruiser rebalance was the nail in the coffin for all the T3s
The place I have seen legion really shine is in support fleets to super cap engagements. The neut power + heavy tank and low sig make it attractive for meeting out blap dreds and keeping them that way.
But of your hoping to see legion fleets the way you see tengu fleets where cost is no issue, the shield/speed meta just doesn't support it.
Personally when profession sites had rats I found the legion outstanding in serp and blood space as an all in one fit. But since that isn't applicable your out of luck. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
902
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Posted - 2013.06.26 11:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Cyberin wrote:Name one thing, other than not using much ammo...and another t3 can do it better. Armor boosting. Somewhat niche, but it definitely does it better than any other T3.
And a dam bulky active tank HAM version very effective, not everywhere and not in all gang types but it's a very good legion version to fly. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Cyberin
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.06.26 12:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Onomerous wrote:Cyberin wrote:I fly pretty much all Amarr at the moment...and fitting a legion makes me sad.
The people saying that it doesn't use ammo actually is probably one of it's strongest points sadly...it is the worst out of all the t3 ships at everything. Name one thing, other than not using much ammo...and another t3 can do it better.
Makes me sad :(
(this isn't saying that it sucks...it can do pretty good dps, or a godly tank if fit correctly...but still, both of those can be outdone by other t3s) Keep reading this on these forums... our Legion pilots remind me not to listen to the posts on here. There are at least 3 viable fits we use on every PVP op we run. I would say the Legion is second only to the Proteus (might even be equal) in our fleets. PVE... completely different beast. Loki and Tengu all the way (C5/6 sites).
I didn't say that the ship isn't viable, I said that the other T3s simply do everything a little bit better.
What type of fits are they? (purpose). If it's DPS...it can be beat, tanking (except maybe armor would be a tie) it can be beat, cloaky...can be beat, etc...
Don't get me wrong, I love my Legion, it's a sexy ship and does well...but it's still the worst t3 there is when you look at everything it can do...it's more of a jack-of-all trades ship, when t3's are meant to be specialized (in my opinion). |
Xequecal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.06.26 13:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ciyrine wrote:Ive gotten that legion is worse at every task than some other ship out there. Im doing market speculation if u will. Im gambling that legion will get buffed when t3s get balanced. Since its going to take me months to get into the legion. By the time i can fly it it will probably be pretty good.
So if we ignore how ship 'x' can do it better. What is the legion supposed to do well? What build almost doesnt suck?
There's one good thing about the Legion, and that's an immense amount of powergrid with the Power Core Multiplier. With just faction items, no deadspace, in PvP you have enough grid to fit a 100mn AB and a 1600mm plate, or a 10mn MWD and two 1600mm plates, without grid mods.
The first option gives 750 DPS, 130,000 EHP, and 2,000 m/sec speed before gang mods/implants with the sig radius of a cruiser. The second gives 646 DPS, 200,000 EHP, and 1,800 m/sec speed before gang mods/implants. None of these fits need any kind of cap mods/booster so you have 3 mids to play with. You can fit web/scram/ECCM and be almost impossible to jam, or just fit dual web to really lock stuff down.
Tengu can't get anywhere close to this because of the gimped fitting stats, you can't fit 6 launchers and a MWD on a Tengu without running out of PG, let alone any shield extenders. |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
68
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Posted - 2013.06.26 13:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:curse or pilgrim does it better.
LOL no, it's pretty easy to permarun 6 medium neuts in a Legion, while actually having enough EHP no not be swatted in the first seconds of a fight.
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Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
158
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Posted - 2013.06.26 14:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Caius Sivaris wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:curse or pilgrim does it better. LOL no, it's pretty easy to permarun 6 medium neuts in a Legion, while actually having enough EHP no not be swatted in the first seconds of a fight. Ciyrine wrote:Ive gotten that legion is worse at every task than some other ship out there. You just got a taste of the awfulness of those forums (people that know what they are talking about tend to do it elsewhere, and many of them are banned here anyway). Legions are the backbone of some of the most successful fleet format (e.g. Verge of Collapse).
+1 |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
180
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Posted - 2013.06.26 16:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
What can the legion do? Battleshipish EHP with Battlecruiser DPS and application and cruiser signature while zooming around at 1500m/s with an 100mn AB and switching to maneuverable 10mn AB once closed in.
Then again, why would anyone ever want to have something like this? Can't wait to stop being a lazy dude and actually make the ISK to fly these things in a PvP environment.
To all you 'Legion is so bad' people: No. The Legion is fine, only the Covert Subsystem is really weak. Giving it 25mbit of drones + 75m-¦ bay as well/or launcher hardpoints would make it... already kind of good! And the other Tech 3s are probably going to brought in-line with the legion once the balancepass hits them rather than vice-versa. |
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chris elliot
EG CORP Mass Overload
193
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Posted - 2013.06.26 17:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
Shereza wrote:That's just it, even after all the T2/T3 ships get rebalanced the legion shouldn't be the best ship in any role. T3 ships are supposed to be "jack of all, master of none" when it comes to ship design. It should be a good HAM boat, but not better than the sacrilege. It should be a good disruption boat, but not better than the curse or pilgrim. It should be a good laser boat, but not better than the zealot. It should do good work with gang links, but not be better than the damnation.
To be fair. A caracal is a better ham boat than a sacrilege.
It is a much better neut boat up close than a pilgrim and it can cloak. It is an amazing cloaky logistics boat along with the proteus, though it lacks a bonus to range like the Guardian. It's a really good HAM brawler as well who's guns cane be shut off by neuts. It can even do some nano silliness like the zealot for some of the truly weird out there. And of course you can always turn it into a boring heavy tank clone of a zealot if you want to.
However, if you fit a nullifier on it and it is not a boosting ship you can kiss both your tank, and damage goodbye. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
3752
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Posted - 2013.06.26 17:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
chris elliot wrote:It can even do some nano silliness like the zealot for some of the truly weird out there.
Hi!!!!
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
903
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Posted - 2013.06.26 19:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Ciyrine wrote:Ive gotten that legion is worse at every task than some other ship out there. Im doing market speculation if u will. Im gambling that legion will get buffed when t3s get balanced. Since its going to take me months to get into the legion. By the time i can fly it it will probably be pretty good.
So if we ignore how ship 'x' can do it better. What is the legion supposed to do well? What build almost doesnt suck? There's one good thing about the Legion, and that's an immense amount of powergrid with the Power Core Multiplier. With just faction items, no deadspace, in PvP you have enough grid to fit a 100mn AB and a 1600mm plate, or a 10mn MWD and two 1600mm plates, without grid mods. The first option gives 750 DPS, 130,000 EHP, and 2,000 m/sec speed before gang mods/implants with the sig radius of a cruiser. The second gives 646 DPS, 200,000 EHP, and 1,800 m/sec speed before gang mods/implants. None of these fits need any kind of cap mods/booster so you have 3 mids to play with. You can fit web/scram/ECCM and be almost impossible to jam, or just fit dual web to really lock stuff down. Tengu can't get anywhere close to this because of the gimped fitting stats, you can't fit 6 launchers and a MWD on a Tengu without running out of PG, let alone any shield extenders. In PvE, nothing beats shield tanked ships, but that's not a problem with the Legion or Tengu, it's a problem with the absurdly overpowered nature of the Gist line of shield boosters. A Gistum A-type MSB and Pith X-type SBA on a Tengu results in an almost 10:1 ratio of shield boost:cap spent. No armor tanked ship can beat a 4:1 ratio on armor repaired:cap spent no matter how much isk you spend on them. I have no idea whatsoever why they made the Gist boosters so good compared to every other shield booster and every armor repairer. The best faction MAR has a base of 360 repair for 180 cap. The best faction MSB has a base of 90 shield boosted for 60 cap. The best deadspace MAR has a base of 468 repaired for 180 cap. The best deadspace MSB has a base of 170 shield boosted for 38 cap. Going from a faction to a deadspace armor tank is a 30% increase in efficiency, going from a faction to a deadspace shield tank is a 298% increase in efficiency.....
Very much what this guys says here, yet some nerds fit Tengus full of extenders/invulns shield extender rigs no web no point and tell you it's op, yet they don't undock with in null for several jumps and pvp with or stay in groups in wh's because someone else is point ing stuff for them to hit F1.
Legion is an awesome ship to fly/have require huge amounts of skills and elite core certs to get the best out of it and on top looks really really great, the best looking of all.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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