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Lexmana
992
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Posted - 2013.06.10 11:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
We all know T3 cruisers are up for rebalancing and many think it has to be a nerf. Maybe not. T3 cruisers were meant to excel in versatility and not over shine any specialised ship (HAC, RECON, commad ship etc) in their specific role. But many fear that the flexibility they provide today (switching subs in a station) would not be enough of an advantage to motivate their cost if these ships performance is brought down below T2 ships in a specific role.
This creates a lot of difficulty in the up-coming rebalancing.
But what if T3 ships could refit subsystems in space?
That would give them an unique advantage that could lead to some new interesting tactics for both PvE and PvP and such unique advantage can more easily be balanced by reducing their capabilities in any specialised role. This could also be a template for new T3 ships of other classes too (e.g. frigs and even battleships).
So do you think it would float? And what would you like do do with a shapeshifter in EVE? |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
98
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
What about no.
How about they revamp T2 ships first to warrant the trillion of skill points invested there. |
Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ummm, no.......
How about just making T3s flexible ships as CCP currently have planned. No one has been asking for transformers in space. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
200
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:What about no.
How about they revamp T2 ships first to warrant the trillion of skill points invested there.
Good point, well made, not totally on subject but I fully support this request
Tiber Ibis wrote:Ummm, no.......
How about just making T3s flexible ships as CCP currently have planned. No one has been asking for transformers in space.
Untrue, I have |
ngaly
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2013.06.10 12:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think this is a great idea. Currently each possible t3 configuration is either better or worse than the respective t2 ship instead of being actually different. No normal rebalancing will change that. However, if CCP turns t3 ships into transformer-like ships they would become actually different ships. They would provide a new option instead of providing a better or worse version of the same old options. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
200
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Posted - 2013.06.10 13:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
ngaly wrote:I think this is a great idea. Currently each possible t3 configuration is either better or worse than the respective t2 ship instead of being actually different. No normal rebalancing will change that. However, if CCP turns t3 ships into transformer-like ships they would become actually different ships. They would provide a new option instead of providing a better or worse version of the same old options.
I guess t3 ships should not only be able to refit subsystems in space but also modules and maybe even rigs.
Not rigs, I actually feel t3s shouldn't have rigs, that should be covered by the subsystems. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
473
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Posted - 2013.06.10 13:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ugh... That would be the most hard thing out there to balance, although maybe it's not the most terrible idea out there. Introduce a temporary shut down procedure for that and it's not even that broken... Maybe...
Still, good/bad thing that this menace won't be threatening us anytime soon as EVE still can't "remake" ships in space. For now I'm happy that CCP at least finally decided to sidestep the problem (see PoS "resubbing"). |
OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
54
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Posted - 2013.06.10 13:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:We all know T3 cruisers are up for rebalancing and many think it has to be a nerf. Maybe not. T3 cruisers were meant to excel in versatility and not over shine any specialised ship (HAC, RECON, commad ship etc) in their specific role. But many fear that the flexibility they provide today (switching subs in a station) would not be enough of an advantage to motivate their cost if these ships performance is brought down below T2 ships in a specific role.
This creates a lot of difficulty in the up-coming rebalancing.
But what if T3 ships could refit subsystems in space?
That would give them an unique advantage on the field that could lead to some new interesting tactics for both PvE and PvP and such unique advantage can more easily be balanced by reducing their capabilities in any specialised role. This could also be a template for new T3 ships of other classes too (e.g. frigs and even battleships).
So do you think it would float? And what would you like do do with a shapeshifter in EVE? This would allow you to defend yourself. CCP will never allow it.
|
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
149
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Posted - 2013.06.10 13:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:We all know T3 cruisers are up for rebalancing and many think it has to be a nerf. Maybe not. T3 cruisers were meant to excel in versatility and not over shine any specialised ship (HAC, RECON, commad ship etc) in their specific role. But many fear that the flexibility they provide today (switching subs in a station) would not be enough of an advantage to motivate their cost if these ships performance is brought down below T2 ships in a specific role.
This creates a lot of difficulty in the up-coming rebalancing.
But what if T3 ships could refit subsystems in space?
That would give them an unique advantage on the field that could lead to some new interesting tactics for both PvE and PvP and such unique advantage can more easily be balanced by reducing their capabilities in any specialised role. This could also be a template for new T3 ships of other classes too (e.g. frigs and even battleships).
So do you think it would float? And what would you like do do with a shapeshifter in EVE?
I'd like that. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
iskflakes
505
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Posted - 2013.06.10 13:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Here's what will actually happen:
EHP will get reduced by 50%, DPS reduced by 50%, the interdiction nullifier will not work while cloaked and skillpoint loss will be increased. You will have to choose between either tank or DPS, but not both. If you choose high DPS you should obviously receive a tracking penalty to make sure you can't hit frigates that are tackling you, and if you choose to be able to hit frigates you should not have the mobility to escape from battleships.
These changes will clearly help tackle T3s proliferation as it will lead to more of them exploding. People will continue to use T3s after they become useless for reasons so obvious I won't even think about them. - |
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Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
246
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Posted - 2013.06.10 13:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's a neat idea, but my first thought is with such versatility, fleet commanders wouldn't be sure how to counter an enemy that can change its doctrine on the fly and eventually all fleets would be t3 ships because of this. |
Lexmana
996
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Posted - 2013.06.10 14:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:It's a neat idea, but my first thought is with such versatility, fleet commanders wouldn't be sure how to counter an enemy that can change its doctrine on the fly and eventually all fleets would be t3 ships because of this. I can see how it could become too powerful but the ability to switch in space can be restricted. It could be restricted to only two different fits only maybe also only to certain subs so that, for example, the choice of fitting interdiction nullifier has to be done in station.
Possibilities are almost endless if they chose this path for T3s. |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
169
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 14:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
They already are, or do posess shapeshifting magical properties to one degree or another.
Legion - Legion are a group of demons referred to in the Christian Bible. The New Testament outlines an encounter where Jesus healed a man from Gadarenes possessed by demons while traveling, known as Exorcising the Gerasenes demonic.
Tengu - Tengu (sñ¬tïù?, "heavenly dog") are a type of legendary creature found in Japanese folk religion and are also considered a type of Shinto god (kami) or y+ìkai (supernatural beings)). Although they take their name from a dog-like Chinese demon (Tiangou), the tengu were originally thought to take the forms of birds of prey, and they are traditionally depicted with both human and avian characteristics. The earliest tengu were pictured with beaks, but this feature has often been humanized as an unnaturally long nose, which today is widely considered the tengu's defining characteristic in the popular imagination. Buddhism long held that the tengu were disruptive demons and harbingers of war. Their image gradually softened, however, into one of protective, if still dangerous, spirits of the mountains and forests. Tengu are associated with the ascetic practice known as Shugend+ì, and they are usually depicted in the distinctive garb of its followers, the yamabushi.
Proteus - Protean is a Discipline that gives vampires the ability to change form, from growing feral claws to evaporating into a cloud of mist. Protean is the signature Discipline of the Gangrel and many of its powers are geared towards surviving in the wild or evoking the strengths of natural predators.
Loki - In Norse mythology, Loki, Loptr, or Hve+¦rungr is a god or j+¦tunn (or both). Loki is the son of F+írbauti and Laufey, and the brother of Helblindi and B++leistr. By the j+¦tunn Angrbo+¦a, Loki is the father of Hel, the wolf Fenrir, and the world serpent J+¦rmungandr. By his wife Sigyn, Loki is the father of Narfi and/or Nari. And by the stallion Sva+¦ilfari, Loki is the motherGÇögiving birth in the form of a mareGÇöto the eight-legged horse Sleipnir. In addition, Loki is referred to as the father of V+íli in the Prose Edda. "You are even dumber than everyone says." - Kristopher Rocancourt
Tell The Others |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
149
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Posted - 2013.06.10 14:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:It's a neat idea, but my first thought is with such versatility, fleet commanders wouldn't be sure how to counter an enemy that can change its doctrine on the fly and eventually all fleets would be t3 ships because of this.
And That's exactly why we should.. no MUST have shapeshifting T3's it'll be awesome! :) There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Wodensun
ZeroSec
110
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Posted - 2013.06.10 14:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm pretty sure they werent thinking of vampires when they named the proteus...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus
Do not give me likes them 101 likes arent a accident... |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
169
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pretty sure they were
On Saturday, 11 November 2006, White Wolf and CCP Games, the Icelandic MMO development company responsible for EVE Online, announced a merger between the two companies during the keynote address at the EVE Online Fanfest 2006. It was also revealed that a World of Darkness MMORPG was already in the planning stages. "You are even dumber than everyone says." - Kristopher Rocancourt
Tell The Others |
Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Have you people lost your marbles here? People are actually discussing having shape shifting ships in eve..... That is, ships which can transform and and change shape whilst flying in space....... lol How exactly would that be explained whilst keeping a straight face. I'm sorry, it isn't going to happen unless we discover some unknown new mystery technology which allows T4 ships. |
Kijo Rikki
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
246
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Kijo Rikki wrote:It's a neat idea, but my first thought is with such versatility, fleet commanders wouldn't be sure how to counter an enemy that can change its doctrine on the fly and eventually all fleets would be t3 ships because of this. I can see how it could become too powerful but the ability to switch in space can be restricted. It could be restricted to only two different fits only maybe also only to certain subs so that, for example, the choice of fitting interdiction nullifier has to be done in station. Possibilities are almost endless if they chose this path for T3s.
It would require some thought on how to accomplish it. Even allowing two setup changes allows for an FC to bring a setup and the counter to the counter of his setup. Enemy FC's would either need to bring two seperate fleets of t1/t2 variants to deal with the original and the counter-counter setup, or they would need to bring their own t3 counter/counter to the counter-counter setup. I just fear that it would pigeon-hole commanders into always bringing t3's, less manpower/more efficient to do so.
Limiting it via subsystems may be a viable option, though I've never flown a t3 so I don't know what changing one subsystem can do for a ship. If it can convert it from a close range to sniper, shield to armor tank, speed/sig fits etc. Perhaps changing subs could be like a siege cycle or something and has to be changed out of combat (no one targeting you). Then at least it's more likely to be used as a limited dual-versatility platform that's a better option than docking and re-shipping. |
Ken 1138
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
48
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
I want a T3 battleship. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2114
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
OP, yes I too would love a cloaky interdiction nullified ship that instantly transformed into a gank-mobile once in the correct system, and then changed back to escape the gatecamps.
That would be totally reasonable.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
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Lexmana
997
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tiber Ibis wrote:Have you people lost your marbles here? People are actually discussing having shape shifting ships in eve..... That is, ships which can transform and and change shape whilst flying in space....... lol How exactly would that be explained whilst keeping a straight face. I'm sorry, it isn't going to happen unless we discover some unknown new mystery technology which allows T4 ships. Well, they already shapeshift inside station so it is not such a far stretch .... And the original idea was not to make it possible to shift during active flight or combat, rather it should be a vulnerable state only possible sitting stil, with full cap and no aggro. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
149
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tiber Ibis wrote:Have you people lost your marbles here? People are actually discussing having shape shifting ships in eve..... That is, ships which can transform and and change shape whilst flying in space....... lol How exactly would that be explained whilst keeping a straight face. I'm sorry, it isn't going to happen unless we discover some unknown new mystery technology which allows T4 ships.
We're not talking about the actual shape but about changing the roles / fittings a ship uses, on the fly. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Lexmana
997
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Posted - 2013.06.10 15:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:OP, yes I too would love a cloaky interdiction nullified ship that instantly transformed into a gank-mobile once in the correct system, and then changed back to escape the gatecamps.
That would be totally reasonable. It is even more reasonable to balance such powerful ability with certain restrictions (see updated OP) like having to decide propuslion sub in station. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1425
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Posted - 2013.06.10 16:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tiber Ibis wrote: How about just making T3s flexible ships as CCP currently have planned. No one has been asking for transformers in space.
Yeah no, a fair few of us actually have. It's the only way the "flexible" role of the T3s can actually be feasibly achieved for the pricetag. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1425
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 16:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Pretty sure they were
On Saturday, 11 November 2006, White Wolf and CCP Games, the Icelandic MMO development company responsible for EVE Online, announced a merger between the two companies during the keynote address at the EVE Online Fanfest 2006. It was also revealed that a World of Darkness MMORPG was already in the planning stages.
pro-+te-+an /-êpr+ìt-ô+Ön/ Adjective Tending or able to change frequently or easily. Able to do many different things; versatile. Synonyms changeable - inconstant - fickle
Just referring to the liquid nature of the ability to change your subsystems. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Prince Kobol
791
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Posted - 2013.06.10 16:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
How about making my T3 look like a flying *****..
hang on... |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard
171
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Posted - 2013.06.10 16:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote: BORING WORDS
Y u try to rationalise this thread?!
"You are even dumber than everyone says." - Kristopher Rocancourt
Tell The Others |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
212
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Posted - 2013.06.10 16:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
As long as it is only out of combat and combined with sufficient drawbacks, yeah why not. You could have some kind of nanite-cloud around the ship while it is rearranging its subsystems and modules.
And as long as the spare subsystems/modules properly drop when the T3 is destroyed ... |
Hessian Arcturus
S.W.O.R.D. Navy
125
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Posted - 2013.06.10 16:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm suprised Doc hasn't commented in here with his one line troll post... It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
201
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Posted - 2013.06.10 16:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hessian Arcturus wrote:I'm suprised Doc hasn't commented in here with his one line troll post...
Sometimes you have to wait for the things you love |
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