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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 18:45:00 -
[1]
A couple of weeks ago, the Ushra'khan went on a campaign to try and tear down as many enemy POS as we could in a week. A number of times we put a POS into reinforced mode. On several occasions the Timer would display a certain length of time, we would arrive with a sizeable fleet at the correct time and watch the timer disapear only to find the POS still in reinforced mode.
We petitioned this and were told that
a) the GM could not pull it from reinforced mode
b) the gm could not tell us an accurate time as to when it would come out of reinforced mode.
Yesterday, at approximatly 08:30, our pos was put into reinforced mode by two dreadnaughts at a time where we have very few pilots online. The POS had 1 day and 7 hours worth of stronthium in it. Yet the timer only showed 24 hours.
Roughly 24 hours later, the two CVA dreadnaughts turn up. The timer is gone, but the POS is still in reinforced mode. They petition, and roughly 45mins later they have it taken out of reinforced mode by a GM. Even though theres probably 6 hours worth of fuel left in it.
Now, I'm not especially bothered about the loss of the POS, as it was only a small one and we had nothing stored there. What botheres me is the discrepancy between how we were treated and how the CVA on this occasion were.
Which GM was correct?
Now recruiting
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.10 20:18:00 -
[2]
Well, assuming you really mean the GM told you he *could not* pull it out of reinforced mode, he's clearly wrong, because a GM did exactly that.
Doesn't mean he was supposed to, though. I wouldn't know either way.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Maggot
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Posted - 2005.11.11 01:45:00 -
[3]
Has anyone else experienced this kind of issue/bug and inconsistency?
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Pers
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Posted - 2005.11.11 02:06:00 -
[4]
What was the exact amount of strontium in the tower?
This is my guess at what happened.
You had sovereignty in the system before the attack so I assume 1 day 7 hours (31 hours) is 31*50*0.75 = 1162.5 strontium
We put a POS in the same system as we were attacking so you lost sovereignty the following downtime. Since the POS consumes 50 strontium without sovereignty then the rate 1162.5 strontium will be consumed will be 23.25 hours.
I not exactly sure how the rounding of numbers work in EVE.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.11.11 03:26:00 -
[5]
The countdown timer for reinforced mode is definitely a bit bugged. GM's can definitely take a pos out of reinforced mode, or put it into reinforced mode. But lots of GM's lie about their powers so that they don't have to explain to people why they don't want to change the situation.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.11.11 10:49:00 -
[6]
What the problem is, is the discrepancy in the GM's actions in the two similar cases, and the response received.
Circumstances like this are the reason why people lose faith in the GM's.
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Just a simple warrior.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.11 12:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Pers
What was the exact amount of strontium in the tower?
This is my guess at what happened.
You had sovereignty in the system before the attack so I assume 1 day 7 hours (31 hours) is 31*50*0.75 = 1162.5 strontium
We put a POS in the same system as we were attacking so you lost sovereignty the following downtime. Since the POS consumes 50 strontium without sovereignty then the rate 1162.5 strontium will be consumed will be 23.25 hours.
That cannot be right, because the strontium WASN'T consumed. The tower was still in reinforced mode.
all that's apparently happened is that a GM has seen the timer expired but the tower still in reinforced, and taken it out.
On the other hand, a GM has seen the timer expired but the tower still in reinforced, and refused to intervene.
Go figure.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2005.11.11 20:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 11/11/2005 20:40:08
The GMs need to be more consistant.
Complaints like this just shouldnt happen. Bugs I can handle, but on a bug like this the GMs need to have a set policy one way or the other that can be upheld the same way every time. Otherwise **** like this happens.
End of story.
God is with us. |
Janssen
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Posted - 2005.11.11 22:25:00 -
[9]
This is a well known bug in the POS reinforced mode timer. It will only show 24hrs and no more, no matter how much strontium you have loaded. The forcefield will continue to operate after the 24hrs has expired, until all the stontium is consumed. (as it should)
IMHO, the GM that intervened and took the tower out of reinforced mode was wrong to do so.
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SerpentBlade
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Posted - 2005.11.11 23:56:00 -
[10]
Without giving out the GM's name in question (although he did excercise correct judgement) here is the exact response from them:
Quote:
The tower should no longer be Reinforced, as it has run out of Strontium. Please take another look and see if its still Reinforced.
The calculations and explanation by Pers are both correct. In the difference in cases, I'd wager a bet that yours indeed was out of stront so they could remove the reinforced mode. In the other case, them not being able to tell you how much is left and how much time is left is because there was indeed time and strontium remaining.
So the GM's action were indeed correct, and there was no power exercised on their part that screams "unacceptable".
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I don't have a signature. |
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Maggot
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Posted - 2005.11.12 08:03:00 -
[11]
The unacceptable part of this is the completely different treatment Ushra'khan got when trying to deal with a similar issue (i.e. turning up at exactly the right time and not being able to attack the POS.)
The bug and its remediation (i.e through a GM) should be well publicised and a sticky made on this forum, along with all GMs being instructed.
We got screwed over due to this issue in our week of providence POS attacks and were none the wiser.
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Dloan
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Posted - 2005.11.12 08:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: SerpentBlade
In the other case, them not being able to tell you how much is left and how much time is left is because there was indeed time and strontium remaining.
Which is quite clearly an incorrect action given that there is suppose to be an *accurate* timer which shows you when the POS is due to come out of reinforced mode. What happens if the POS is suffering from the same bug as you petitioned? They would never know if noone will tell them how much time should be remaining.
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.11.12 10:18:00 -
[13]
It should be pointed out that it is (or was) possible to put MORE stront into a tower (while in reinforced mode) to make it go back into reinforced mode. We have had this happen on at least one occasion but we had someone watching the tower over the 3 hours it was in reinforced mode (actually to run some of the guns out of ammo) and saw this exploit occur.
As soon as it dropped out of reinforced mode, then straight back in, we petitioned stating what had happened and all the pertinant info, and the GM pulled the tower out of reinforced mode.
I notice you say Quote:
Even though theres probably 6 hours worth of fuel left in it.
Did you know it had fuel in it by checking physically, or is the probably a guess as to the amount?
If you are questioning a GM's actions I would suggest you take it up via petition and ask to be forwarded to senior GM's rather than bring their actions to the forums. Discussing the reinforced mode timers is one thing, the GM's actions regarding it, another.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Maggot
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Posted - 2005.11.12 11:15:00 -
[14]
Trooper, you are right about submitting to a senior GM and we have done so. However I think it is fair to ask about others experiences regarding these POS bugs, the different circumstances and different reactions from GMs.
Everyone should be clear about what the bugs are and what the "correct" GM response should be. These are issues that can waste days of effort from large groups of players, and we need to know.
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.11.12 14:58:00 -
[15]
I worry that there is no standard method of dealing with it and we got a lazy GM who didn't want to do the work to check and deal with it. Either that or there is no standard response and he thought that it should remain as it is, aflicted by a bug. (Which I am sure GM's are supposed to be here for, so bugs don't interfere with game play, am I right?)
If it is a known bug/issue that is not working the way it is meant to, then surely the GM's job is to manually override it arent they? Kind of like filing a petition when your agent fails to give you what you need for a delivery mission, and they either spawn it for you or delete/complete the mission for you. But if they just left it and you lost standings/collateral for the mission, a player would be rather annoyed because of a lack of standard criteria.
CCP/Senior GMs, Response? Is there a set system they are supposed to work to in this situation and what is it so that players know if a GM is not doing it right?
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Shakor Clan Information Portal
Pain is meant to be felt. It is meant to exist. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.11.13 09:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Darius Shakor
CCP/Senior GMs, Response? Is there a set system they are supposed to work to in this situation and what is it so that players know if a GM is not doing it right?
Whether the answer be yea or nay, they won't tell you here. You may think they should; but they won't. They never do.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2005.11.14 06:31:00 -
[17]
Since we cannot subscribe to any threads here, I would like to just chime in asking if this is indeed a problem?
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.11.14 11:32:00 -
[18]
From our own experiences in Geminate with the rather large number of POS we took down there while on contract over two weeks, only ONCE did the tower jump back into reinforced mode and as I said above, that was due to a exploit - putting more stront in his tower while it was still reinforced.
Sounds weird what the GM said, but it could be taken afew ways reading it and of course the origonal text might read differently from the abridged version as well. Just curious, but the way your own petition was worded might have had a different effect as well.
Anyho! Good luck in getting a complete answer to you questions and what happened if possible. 
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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