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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Baren
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I me and another guy were both in cruisers in highsec... we decided to duel so I sent him a duel request, he accepted and the duel began... 30 seconds later and ishtar and mega warping and start shooting me. concord did nothing and they were showing in my limited engagement counter. I never accepted a duel with these people nor do i have kill rights... can some explain how this is possible.... and does this me that eve the duels are safe as 1v1's |
Nagamor
Los Diablos Blancos Zion Innovations
5
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
i've only read the rules for Duels as noted in the patch notes when it released but this sounds like an exploit perhaps of fleeted members taking advantage of the duel like when you have engagement rights vs a suspect.
I would review the rules of Dueling and probably submit a bug report.
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
414
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Posted - 2013.06.07 04:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Did they spam you with duel requests and you just clicked through them to concentrate on the pew?
I've never used the duel system so just a guess.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Othran
Route One
540
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Posted - 2013.06.07 07:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
They're in the same corp as the guy in the Navy Omen. I don't bother with duelling crap myself but that's probably the reason. |
Vaihto Ehto
18
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Posted - 2013.06.07 10:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your mistake was trying to PVP in hisec. Why would you not use an alt to post on the forums? |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
465
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Posted - 2013.06.07 12:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Here is the killmail: http://zkillboard.com/detail/30990257/ ______
Look at your logs. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Baren
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.06.07 15:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Did they spam you with duel requests and you just clicked through them to concentrate on the pew?
I've never used the duel system so just a guess.
Naw I was the one who sent the dueling request.. and I didnt accept any others.
Yes I saw the killmail.....but that doesnt help me figure out how the other two were able to engage me |
Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
75
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Posted - 2013.06.07 15:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Could they have gotten a killright from somebody that you pod-killed? They could have locked you, and then repped their friend with drones making them suspect, then if you shoot them it creates a limited engagement I think? |
Baren
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.06.07 16:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Berluth Luthian wrote:Could they have gotten a killright from somebody that you pod-killed? They could have locked you, and then repped their friend with drones making them suspect, then if you shoot them it creates a limited engagement I think?
Naw,I didnt have any kill rights as I havent podded anyone for a very long time. Like I said I didnt have my autolocking on so i was only shooting him. I sent a petition to find out what happened. Its just frustrating, that something that was a very good idea like Dueling hasnt been made clear enough to people on how the mechanics work.
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Nagamor
Los Diablos Blancos Zion Innovations
5
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Posted - 2013.06.07 20:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Baren wrote:Berluth Luthian wrote:Could they have gotten a killright from somebody that you pod-killed? They could have locked you, and then repped their friend with drones making them suspect, then if you shoot them it creates a limited engagement I think? Naw,I didnt have any kill rights as I havent podded anyone for a very long time. Like I said I didnt have my autolocking on so i was only shooting him. I sent a petition to find out what happened. Its just frustrating, that something that was a very good idea like Dueling hasnt been made clear enough to people on how the mechanics work.
On the contrary. I think the mechanics were made perfectly clear, I think like everyone else is suggesting, you inadvertently flagged yourself to the other aggressors. |
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Baren
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.06.07 20:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nagamor wrote:Baren wrote:Berluth Luthian wrote:Could they have gotten a killright from somebody that you pod-killed? They could have locked you, and then repped their friend with drones making them suspect, then if you shoot them it creates a limited engagement I think? Naw,I didnt have any kill rights as I havent podded anyone for a very long time. Like I said I didnt have my autolocking on so i was only shooting him. I sent a petition to find out what happened. Its just frustrating, that something that was a very good idea like Dueling hasnt been made clear enough to people on how the mechanics work. On the contrary. I think the mechanics were made perfectly clear, I think like everyone else is suggesting, you inadvertently flagged yourself to the other aggressors. and how would I have done this
I know I did not accept a duel with them, nor did i target or activate a module |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
970
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Posted - 2013.06.07 21:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think under the new rules you would have had to do something to both pilots who came in late.
I don't really know the rules but I don't think any rights to shoot are tied to you being in the same corp or fleet anymore.
The only way you could have attacked one of them without being concorded would be if they were suspect. Attacking a suspect I do not think allows the suspects corpmates to attack you.
Could your drones have attacked them due to being set to aggressive? (I'm honestly not sure if navy augor has drones.) Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Baren
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.06.07 22:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I think under the new rules you would have had to do something to both pilots who came in late.
I don't really know the rules but I don't think any rights to shoot are tied to you being in the same corp or fleet anymore.
The only way you could have attacked one of them without being concorded would be if they were suspect. Attacking a suspect I do not think allows the suspects corpmates to attack you.
Could your drones have attacked them due to being set to aggressive? (I'm honestly not sure if navy augor has drones.)
Thank you, for putting in actuall thought into your response.
but lets say i did at them, and for some reason I was not concorded. That would still me they were suspect. But like you said being suspect does not allow the suspects corpmates to attack you and it also doesnt make you suspect.
That means i would have needed to previously attacked both his corp mates when they were suspect.
as for my drones. they were set to passive..
they both warped in and attacked at the same time.
my drones would have needed time to fly and at each of them first. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
970
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Posted - 2013.06.07 23:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Baren wrote:Cearain wrote:I think under the new rules you would have had to do something to both pilots who came in late.
I don't really know the rules but I don't think any rights to shoot are tied to you being in the same corp or fleet anymore.
The only way you could have attacked one of them without being concorded would be if they were suspect. Attacking a suspect I do not think allows the suspects corpmates to attack you.
Could your drones have attacked them due to being set to aggressive? (I'm honestly not sure if navy augor has drones.) Thank you, for putting in actuall thought into your response. but lets say i did at them, and for some reason I was not concorded. That would still me they were suspect. But like you said being suspect does not allow the suspects corpmates to attack you and it also doesnt make you suspect. That means i would have needed to previously attacked both his corp mates when they were suspect. as for my drones. they were set to passive.. they both warped in and attacked at the same time. my drones would have needed time to fly and at each of them first.
I am not expert at high sec rules by any stretch and what follows is me half saying what I think the rules are and half wondering if I am getting them right myself.
If they were repping him they would be suspect to you which would allow you to attack them without concord. But you would need to attack both of them for them both to attack you without concord. I am not sure if they would show up as a red box to you if they were just repping your target. If you then attacked them they could attack back.
But if you didn't attack them then the only thing that makes sense is if you were suspect. Like if you took from a can in the last 15 minutes or something. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
250
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Posted - 2013.06.08 08:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Did you fit an EM and Therm hardener on that specifically because he was flying an ONI? Tsk tsk, no honour in these duels anymore. It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |
Baren
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.06.08 14:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
feihcsiM wrote:Did you fit an EM and Therm hardener on that specifically because he was flying an ONI? Tsk tsk, no honour in these duels anymore.
actuall we both docked up and new what the other was flyinf ofcourse im going to change my hardeners
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UKBigWolf
34
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Posted - 2013.06.08 19:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you wasn't suspect, or you never attacked them first, nor did you accept any further duals... then, off the top of my head, I can't think of any way they should of legally attacked you under the current rules without being under a war-dec |
Maru Sha
The Department of Justice
4
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Posted - 2013.06.09 08:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
What is happening if
pilot A duels pilot B
and
pilot B then duels pilot C
?
Will pilot A be able to attack pilot C ? Or is it even possible to duel several people at the same time? Maybe the answer to your question is somewhere along this line. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
517
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Posted - 2013.06.09 10:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
hard to say anything before you can study combat log, usually you can find clues from there. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1325
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Posted - 2013.06.10 04:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maru Sha wrote:What is happening if
pilot A duels pilot B
and
pilot B then duels pilot C
?
Will pilot A be able to attack pilot C ? Or is it even possible to duel several people at the same time? Maybe the answer to your question is somewhere along this line. All accepting a duel request does is create a limited engagement between the person that sent it and the person that accepted it.
None of these engagements interact with each other in any way that is relevant here. |
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Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt
3
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Posted - 2013.06.10 19:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Not having had access to the combat log, it's impossible to say for certain, but I have a guess that what happened was that you targeted the other party, challenged him to a duel, he accepted, and in the fraction of a second before your limited engagement timer went active with him, you managed to activate a module like a warp scrambler that would put a suspect timer on you.
Having a limited engagement with one corp member doesn't grant others nearby the right to shoot you, normally. |
Baren
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
9
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Posted - 2013.06.10 20:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
still it was two more people that came in after.. that would mean i would have needed to do that to both of the 2 new players.
I sent a petition last week to find out what happened. Still no response but I deff gunna post what had actually happened on the forums so that maybe people in the future know what to do and not to |
Lucretia DeWinter
Somali Coast Guard BootCamp
8
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Posted - 2013.06.10 22:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thinking aloud...
You send duel request. Target tells you he accepts (sounds like a mutual chat went on here) Target gets himself a suspect flag. You shoot at him, thinking the duel is go. You get limited engagement between you - and his corp.
Noticed this a few times shooting at suspect ships, the limited engagement that comes up shows the pilot and their corp as free to engage.
maybe that's what it was? A variation on suspect baiting incorporating fake duels? |
Baren
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
9
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Posted - 2013.06.10 22:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:Thinking aloud...
You send duel request. Target tells you he accepts (sounds like a mutual chat went on here) Target gets himself a suspect flag. You shoot at him, thinking the duel is go. You get limited engagement between you - and his corp.
Noticed this a few times shooting at suspect ships, the limited engagement that comes up shows the pilot and their corp as free to engage.
maybe that's what it was? A variation on suspect baiting incorporating fake duels?
no no... I dont even start targeting someone until the accept the actual duel request thing.. |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
61
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Posted - 2013.06.11 01:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Were you in Green or Yellow mode? But if you didn't omit any facts it reeks of exploit. |
Texty
State War Academy Caldari State
70
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Posted - 2013.06.11 10:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:Thinking aloud...
You get limited engagement between you - and his corp.
I'm not quite sure if I understand the system well enough, but I don't think there is a "limited engagement between a player and a corp." The point of LEs is that they are always between two characters. If you shoot a suspect, you get yourself in an LE with him, but his corp should have nothing to do with the fight.
From EVElopedia... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Crimewatch#Limited_Engagements
EVElopedia wrote:(Limited Engagements) only exist between players (not corporations, alliances etc), and allow each party the right to attack the other without legal penalty. |
Ahmed Ibn Rustah
Breathe.
7
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Posted - 2013.06.11 10:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Just going out on a limb here but, have you tried asking them how it was done? |
Soban Kitara
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.06.11 11:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
If everything went exactly how it you said it did, there has to be some kind of exploit. I'm not ruling out the possibility that there was a mechanic that you could have missed, but like others have said, checking your logs couldn't hurt. |
Lucretia DeWinter
Somali Coast Guard BootCamp
11
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Posted - 2013.06.12 09:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Texty wrote:Lucretia DeWinter wrote:Thinking aloud...
You get limited engagement between you - and his corp.
I'm not quite sure if I understand the system well enough, but I don't think there is a "limited engagement between a player and a corp." The point of LEs is that they are always between two characters. If you shoot a suspect, you get yourself in an LE with him, but his corp should have nothing to do with the fight. From EVElopedia... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Crimewatch#Limited_EngagementsEVElopedia wrote:(Limited Engagements) only exist between players (not corporations, alliances etc), and allow each party the right to attack the other without legal penalty.
Whilst flying about, I've shot at suspects. Usually, there's just a limited engagement between pilots.
However, I have noticed on two occasions where the Limited Engagement icon pops up a little number 2 and the hover over info shows LE with the Pilot and Their Corporation.
I'm not sure myself how this comes about and what is different that triggers a corp LE, hence why I mentioned it here.
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PNXR
The Phoenix Rising
0
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Posted - 2013.06.13 19:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Only way those two could have been in engagement is if they repped the guy you were fighting making them global suspect meaning you can shoot them. If you did not shoot them they can only rep their mate. If you engage them they can then shoot back at you with their own limited engagement. This assumes a few things...maybe you could clarify more? |
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