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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
2740
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello internet spaceships pilots,
Today we have a new blog for you from Team SuperFriends!
CCP SoniClover is here to tell you all about the new scanning and probing system that's coming with EVE Online: Odyssey.
You can read all about it in his new devblog here. CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5219
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:You launch all probes in your launcher at once, regardless of how many you currently have loaded. You can have a maximum of 8 probes in space at the same time. All players can use 8 probes now by default as the Astrometrics skill no longer limits the number. This is a bad mechanic.
Quote:There are two pre-set formations coming in Odyssey for players to use GÇô Spread (probes aligned to cover a large area) and Pinpoint (probes aligned to focus on one point). These are not intended to be the absolute best possible formations, but rather a solid starting point for budding explorers. This is a good mechanic.
Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined. This is a bad mechanic.
Quote:The default method for moving probes is a single handle for all probes you have out. Holding Shift will give you an individual handle for each probe, same as the current default. Holding Alt allows you to move your probes closer together. Probes will also resize together by default, holding Shift allows for individual resizing. Note that this is the opposite of the previous system. Resizing probes keeps them centered. WeGÇÖve also made the celestial brackets be less in the way when moving/resizing probes. These mechanics are fine.
Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space! I was ready to say this was a bad mechanic, but with the caveat that the previous position and formation is restored on deployment this mechanic is fine.
And removing DSP and any indication of signal strength on the scan overlay and in the window is an absolutely awful, awful mechanic that requires much better justification than what we were given. Justification (and mention) strangely absent in your devblog. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
957
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nice, but is there any chance of slipping in the ability to "tag" signatures with our own text? Using the default codes is a pain and it would be really nice to be able to right click -> rename to say "Taken site" or "Wormhole to ABC".
Could still show the native IDs along side it. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5219
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
And I'll just quote this here:
Domanique Altares wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:CCP Soundwaves' response was along the lines of, "we probably broke some playstyle that you were used to but we don't care."
This seems to have been the Dev attitude from the get-go with these changes. There was apparently little to no actual player input solicited before CCP hurriedly moved forward with what they thought was best for the playerbase, and when the feedback threads didn't go their way, they started enacting bug fixes and requested changes with the digital equivalent of a middle finger in the air. You want to be able to save formations? Sure. Have two that we chose for you, since we didn't ask what any of you were using beforehand, and you can't actually save your own. Want to use 8 probes? Sure. Now you can launch all 8 at one time instead of all 7. Want to launch only one probe for some reason? Sure. Just load only one probe in the launcher, and you can launch just one. Want to use less than our proscribed number of probes? Sure, just launch them all and recall/offline the ones you don't need. Want to deliberately leave your probes behind for some reason? No. That's just silly. And think of the children. Every single change to probing thus far stinks of being a rush job. CCP had stuff on the whiteboard, and made it go as quickly and with as little effort as possible. Perhaps if they had spent the time between Retribution and now actually working with the playerbase on the probing systems, instead of eyecandy windshield wipers and mobile phone minigames, we would have the widely featured, robust scanning system that could have been possible. We might have had a system that makes it easier for those that are new or casual, yet had the ability to unlock advanced functionality for others who want to be able to do things beyond the simple, without stepping on the toes of either group. Having a sandbox with multiple choices doesn't mean that everything has to be difficult. It means that if you're ready for the training wheels to come off, you shouldn't find that they're welded to the bicycle. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Monistat Seven
BlackRoseMafia
2
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
I look forward to these changes. |
Vakasho Umi Kenshar
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space! I was ready to say this was a bad mechanic, but with the caveat that the previous position and formation is restored on deployment this mechanic is fine.
Nah, this is a bad mechanic. It will impact the probe market for no needed reason. The warning message when leaving probes out was already there for wormholes to remind people of their probes.
I don't see the point at all. This will not help new players in any way, unless the same mechanic is applied to everything we deploy. CCP, I want my drones automatically recalled when I jump or dock, thank you very much for implementing this ASAP. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3472
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vakasho Umi Kenshar wrote:CCP, I want my drones automatically recalled when I jump or dock, thank you very much for implementing this ASAP.
I want my drones automatically recalled when I warp, use an acceleration gate, or when they get shot at.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote: Deep Space Probes (DSP) are being removed. With the overall changes to scanning (not just probe scanning, but also the addition of the Sensor Overlay), players are getting a fairly good overview of non-ship objects in a system. Combat probes exist to track down ships and are intended to become the new main avenue of scanning down ships. The other changes and additions coming in Odyssey speed up scanning down ships and removing the DSP counters this a bit. This means that on the whole, scanning down ships is going to take approximately the same as before, but with greater variations depending on circumstances. Existing DSPs will be changed into their corresponding combat versions.
please consider expanding the range of combat probes to at least 128 to compensate for the removal of dsp... |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
881
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined
This is okay for signature scanning but extremely bad for combat scanning (in fleet fights) We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1899
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Faction POS structure BPCs will drop... does that include towers? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Castor II
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
"Scorpion Ishukone"
WHAT? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5222
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined This is okay for signature scanning but extremely bad for combat scanning (in fleet fights) Yes. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
So basically what you are saying is that mining Ore sites in any place other than high-sec is going to become a lot more dangerous since covert ops ships can warp right in without the need of using probes to find you? You had shown concern for the DSP probes causing the system to be overpowered but what are you going to do for the exploration miners to give them some kind of chance or was that the entire point of making the Ore sites easy to find without the use of probes? |
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CCP Paradox
863
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Posted - 2013.05.28 15:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Faction POS structure BPCs will drop... does that include towers?
Yes, the towers are included. CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5101
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined.
Why? Why don't the probes just appear in the solarsystem map where your ship is located in the predifined formation? If I deploy probes in a hurry, I expect them to be ready to probe the place I just dropped them. Does this change mean, that they will stop doing that and will instead fly off to probe some CCP predetermined location, because that would suck. |
Seth Asthereun
Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zorok wrote:Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them. So basically what you are saying is that mining Ore sites in any place other than high-sec is going to become a lot more dangerous since covert ops ships can warp right in without the need of using probes to find you? You had shown concern for the DSP probes causing the system to be overpowered but what are you going to do for the exploration miners to give them some kind of chance or was that the entire point of making the Ore sites easy to find without the use of probes?
Better buff high sec |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5222
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Does this change mean, that they will stop doing that and will instead fly off to probe some CCP predetermined location, because that would suck. Yes. They fly off to the sun. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
157
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
I would really like to see the 'auto-recall' a feature that the player can toggle by himself and being set to recall by default. There's a lot of possible applications in leaving behind your probes in a solar system.
Also, i'm slightly sad about the skill changes applied towards Astrometrics and the specialisations. If you are currently a dedicated prober, you make a huge investment in time to get Rangefinding to V - after all, it's a Rank 8 skill that provides a significant bonus. After the change, it will still be a rank 8 skill that however is by far less important to max out, especially with new scan-strength modules. I'm not asking for a reimbursement of SP here, however, maybe you should consider the 'nerf' of this skill and reevaluate. A solution to this might be, for example, tweaking down the efficiency of the modules that grant scan strength, and have rangefindiung to provide a 7.5% bonus for example, so that the skill-time investment allows you to reach equivalent scanstrength with less mods. Or whatever you feel like. But investing (and have invested) ~1.7m skillpoints (what is this? 40 days?) for such a small bonus that can be circumvent with new fitting possibilities just doesn't feel right.
Also, with the ability to launch several probes at once, it would also be very enjoyable to remove the reload-time of the module completely, just like lasers have none.
Rest looks fine to me |
Graygor
1kB Realty 1kB Galactic
35632
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Faction POS structure BPCs will drop... does that include towers? Yes, the towers are included.
My babies... have them! "I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commisar Kate |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3473
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Deep Space Probes were very useful for filtering out signatures that we weren't interested in paying further attention to. Most of the functionality of DSP is now lost: the system scanner display only shows the presence of "stuff", the signal strength having been removed from that display. The DSP was previously useful for saving time, and was in itself a decent reason to train Astrometrics 5 (the other very good reason being that more probes in space means better quality probing, faster pinpointing, and bragging rights).
The automatic recall of probes means that there is less chance of people being stranded in unknown space and having to find their way out by contacting locals, asking for help on the forums, or suiciding their way home. You are actively removing consequences. Sure, you have lots of new players complaining that the consequences are too severe: this is a reflection on their unreadiness to face loss, rather than loss in the game being a bad thing.
So with each little hand-holding exercise you undertake, you are going to remove the opportunities that players have to learn about loss and failure, meaning that their first PvP loss is going to be all the more traumatic.
EVE needs the little niggles to help people cope and learn to stand on their own two feet: everything from leaving that distribution mission cargo 6 jumps away, losing probes when jumping through wormholes, through to forgetting to insure their combat ship before heading out to look for a fight.
If filtering out signals using a DSP wasn't an intended mechanic, a better solution would be to randomise the signal strength of the signatures present in space, and to review the signal strengths of signatures that explorers have tabulated over the years. If you notice that there are only 12 categories of signature, perhaps that's an indication that you need to smear the possible signature strengths over a larger potential signal strength range.
Deep Space Probes were also useful for quickly narrowing down groups of signatures in very large systems (anything larger than 30AU radius). This functionality is partially replaced by the system scanner overview, so I'll hold my judgement.
Ultimately though, I feel your attempts to "simplify" content and make it "more accessible" are going to end up dumbing the game down, removing the consequences of failure, and turning EVE Online into "WoW in space."
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2966
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
There's so much **** in these changes that the few good usability improvements don't even feel nice.
Disappointing tbh.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
158
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Castor II wrote:"Scorpion Ishukone" WHAT?
It's linkable for ages now because officially someone ****** up at copying some things to somewhere else, it's unobtainable and probably only here to blow the minds of all those not-knowing. |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
The faction probe market is going to take a pretty big hit. The only time people are going to lose probes is when they get blown up, rather than due to being forgetful or ignoring popups.
Also agree with what was said regards leaving probes out being a tactical decision in some cases (e.g. where there might have only been a small window of opportunity to launch them without being noticed) |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Castor II wrote:"Scorpion Ishukone" WHAT? It's linkable for ages now because officially someone ****** up at copying some things to somewhere else, it's unobtainable and probably only here to blow the minds of all those not-knowing. It's a reward for participants in the FanFest PvP tournament. And some RP guy who I forget the name of who already has one. |
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Roime wrote:There's so much **** in these changes that the few good usability improvements don't even feel nice.
Disappointing tbh.
I hear ya man.... This is the first time I have considered truly giving up Eve...The monocle-gate scandal is nothing compared to their haphazard approach to these game-breaking changes they are making. I don't understand why they are trying to ruin certain aspects of the game...I agree that they should remove the regular asteroid belts and make them anomalies since that will take a bite out of botters but for them to simply make grav sites also anomalies makes no sense. I'm very disappointed with you CCP. |
Cetrata
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:I would really like to see the 'auto-recall' a feature that the player can toggle by himself and being set to recall by default. There's a lot of possible applications in leaving behind your probes in a solar system.
Also, i'm slightly sad about the skill changes applied towards Astrometrics and the specialisations. If you are currently a dedicated prober, you make a huge investment in time to get Rangefinding to V - after all, it's a Rank 8 skill that provides a significant bonus. After the change, it will still be a rank 8 skill that however is by far less important to max out, especially with new scan-strength modules. I'm not asking for a reimbursement of SP here, however, maybe you should consider the 'nerf' of this skill and reevaluate. A solution to this might be, for example, tweaking down the efficiency of the modules that grant scan strength, and have rangefindiung to provide a 7.5% bonus for example, so that the skill-time investment allows you to reach equivalent scanstrength with less mods. Or whatever you feel like. But investing (and have invested) ~1.7m skillpoints (what is this? 40 days?) for such a small bonus that can be circumvent with new fitting possibilities just doesn't feel right.
Getting the additional probe skills to 5 allows you to use the T2 variants of the mid slot scan modules. The modules have twice the bonus of T1. |
Seth Asthereun
Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Zorok wrote:Roime wrote:There's so much **** in these changes that the few good usability improvements don't even feel nice.
Disappointing tbh.
I hear ya man.... This is the first time I have considered truly giving up Eve...The monocle-gate scandal is nothing compared to their haphazard approach to these game-breaking changes they are making. I don't understand why they are trying to ruin certain aspects of the game...I agree that they should remove the regular asteroid belts and make them anomalies since that will take a bite out of botters but for them to simply make grav sites also anomalies makes no sense. I'm very disappointed with you CCP. i think because most of them are no longer players |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
194
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:WeGÇÖve removed Salvaging as a thing of its own in exploration sites. No salvaging sites will be distributed post-Odyssey and there are no special salvaging containers. What about the Talocan ships in certain WH sites?
And I am no fan of the instant recall of probes as it sometimes is used as a tactic to leave some combat probes behind as deterrent in 'our' WH system when scouting in another. Upon return the get reconnected again etc. Please leave that option open to us. Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
208
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 15:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Another change is that Astrometrics is now a starting skill for new players, same as Mining for instance. Will this skill be added (with sp) for existing players who have not trained Astrometrics at Odyssey's launch on the 4th? |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1230
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Exploration expansion \o/ |
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Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
158
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cetrata wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:I would really like to see the 'auto-recall' a feature that the player can toggle by himself and being set to recall by default. There's a lot of possible applications in leaving behind your probes in a solar system.
Also, i'm slightly sad about the skill changes applied towards Astrometrics and the specialisations. If you are currently a dedicated prober, you make a huge investment in time to get Rangefinding to V - after all, it's a Rank 8 skill that provides a significant bonus. After the change, it will still be a rank 8 skill that however is by far less important to max out, especially with new scan-strength modules. I'm not asking for a reimbursement of SP here, however, maybe you should consider the 'nerf' of this skill and reevaluate. A solution to this might be, for example, tweaking down the efficiency of the modules that grant scan strength, and have rangefindiung to provide a 7.5% bonus for example, so that the skill-time investment allows you to reach equivalent scanstrength with less mods. Or whatever you feel like. But investing (and have invested) ~1.7m skillpoints (what is this? 40 days?) for such a small bonus that can be circumvent with new fitting possibilities just doesn't feel right.
Getting the additional probe skills to 5 allows you to use the T2 variants of the mid slot scan modules. The modules have twice the bonus of T1.
This definately is interesting, however there might be cases in which a current pilot will have less scanstrength without new fitting mods than he has now: Astrometrics not at V, but rangefinding at V will drop you 5% base scanstrength after Odyssey hits. For me this is not the case and i weill certainly benefit from this change via pinpointing & aquisition, but still, it's just not fair ESPECIALLY for the rangefinding skill who costs a lot of time just to be reduced to a skill you might want to have, but don't necessarily need for being good @ probing and reaching top scan-strengths.
Also, i welcome the addition of scanstrength affecting modules other than launchers, as this will make lg virtues not necessary anymore to find some very special snowflakes. Which is also bad. But good. ... confusing, isn't it? |
BraiZure Harloon
A-31
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Extinction Level Event.
471
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Good work!
But how about the POS revamp!? !? !? CCP will never do it? we dont need new faction POS sticks...(although it is a good adition to balance the fuel, and ICE fix) New players will keep saying "WTF" everytime they see or try to use a POS for the fist time... Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
184
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
LOL.
Devblog sez: This is no easy task, as this has to be accomplished while at the same time retaining the functionality of the scan probing as a whole for other users of the system, such as veteran explorers, wormhole dwellers and scouts. While the focus this time around was on accessibility and basic mechanics, we feel this is only the tip of the iceberg and the changes weGÇÖre making now give us an opportunity to expand the exploration mechanic at the higher end, adding more depth of gameplay, in the future.
Translation: Being in charge of changing an entire system is hard work when you don't know how to use it to its fullest, nor what it is truly capable of, and don't bother to make serious inquiries of people who do. Also, we don't care about the exploration mechanic at the 'higher end,' and 'just the tip' would be a more clever analogy where 'veterans' are concerned. (Analogy. You see what I did there. Also, no need to whitewash; this system is pretty much finished for the foreseeable future. You know it, and we know it.)
Devblog sez: There are two pre-set formations coming in Odyssey for players to use GÇô Spread (probes aligned to cover a large area) and Pinpoint (probes aligned to focus on one point). These are not intended to be the absolute best possible formations, but rather a solid starting point for budding explorers.
Translation: We don't actually know what 'the best' formations are, since we don't actually use this system on a regular basis. (I herd u liek DSP formations and running mixed probe sets. Here, have a lolli and shut up.)
Devblog sez: The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined.
Translation: This is kind of a silly graphical disconnect, but since datamining of feedback threads has determined that EVE players can't read the overview, they'll never notice that the probes still spawn right next to the ship, regardless of where we show them on the system map, so we better tell them. (Srs jab at folks who have been crying about this the whole time without noticing that the probes never spawned at the sun.)
Devblog sez: The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space![/quote]
Translation: We don't use the probe system, and therefore have no earthly idea why someone would want to deliberately leave probes in space. Also, a pox on your probe market.
Devblog sez: The scan result list is seeing the biggest amount of changes. The progress towards getting a warpable signature has been made much more visually clear, as well as indicating the difference between your current and last scan results. This allows players to get a better sense of how well theyGÇÖre progressing towards the signature theyGÇÖre focusing on.
Translation: Numbers are hard, yo. Intense data mining has revealed that the playerbase is largely illiterate and mathematically challenged, and cannot discern the difference between 10% and 80%, we have partnered with Crayola to bring you colored bars. We herd u liek colored barz, now here they arez. (Seriously, this is nice and all, but your phrasing makes it sound like people can't even read.)
Devblog sez: There are a few things that we want to get in, but arenGÇÖt able to in Odyssey. We aim to get these things in for a point release, but canGÇÖt promise it.
Translation: Good luck ever seeing these scraps of functionality.
Devblog sez: Custom formations GÇô Odyssey will only have a very basic formation setup. We want to expand this and allow players to save their own formations and support formations with variable number of probes in them.
Translation: Probably the single biggest thing that anyone who probes asked for, and we can't deliver it. Instead, you will have Pres Butan, Vomit Probes.
Devblog sez: ThatGÇÖs it for Team Super Friends, we hope you enjoy these changes and have a great summer!
Translation: Let them eat cake. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2967
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Exploration expansion \o/
Where?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1231
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Anyone care to confirm or deny whether new ship restrictions on combat sites are going live? |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
511
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
It's a good start, and if you do get the hoped-for point-release features out promptly then it may be a good new system.
+1 for improving (if not fixing) the absolute #1 most frustrating part of the tutorial. For the rest, I'll wait for the incremental improvements to come in before passing judgment.
I feel most dubious about probes automatically positioning themselves at the sun. First, I'm not sure that it's behavior that will be clear to utter newbies ("but my probes are on my overview, and I'm scanning right outside the station on planet 6 because I'm an adorable newbie!"). Second, if you want your probes by your ship, for combat scanning, it's extra hassle.
And while I'll miss my DSPs, I can't disagree with their removal. They did tend to make "large" systems in "unknown" space become small and perfectly surveyed with the click of a button. Their removal will make space seem larger. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
233
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
What happened to the plan to be able to access all POS structures from anywhere within the POS shields? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
William Sedgwick Vyvorant
Why Mine
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Durzel wrote:The faction probe market is going to take a pretty big hit. The only time people are going to lose probes is when they get blown up, rather than due to being forgetful or ignoring popups.
My thoughts exactly, as someone who's spent a lot of their available playing time getting good standings for SoE to run level 4's I'm more than a little annoyed that in one fell swoop CCP can destroy the market I used to make a nice chunk of ISK from, guess I'll need to find something else to do. |
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
240
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together.
DScan is not going anywhere. |
|
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
240
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:What happened to the plan to be able to access all POS structures from anywhere within the POS shields?
Not sure why that would be in this dev blog about probes. |
Lightley
Bronlonius Fan Club
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
i dont like the new exploration for dummies approach either: in these sites we're gonna find lots of ore. lets call it ore sites |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2967
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
DScan is not going anywhere.
Nor is it's interface getting any love. I mean, it's only one of the primary methods players use to interact with New Eden and incredibly poorly designed from usability perspective.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
IceGuerilla
Poseidon's Wingmen Perihelion Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
Easy mode: engaged |
Logix42
HELLSINKER
128
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Scan probes recalling on jump / dock is ridiculous.
1) You are not keeping true to the core of EVE Online. Actions have consequences If someone leaves probes behind and gets stuck in a wormhole, or has to fly 10 jumps to buy more probes, that is good. Auto-recalling is bad hand holding and fundamentally flawed. Just don't.
2) There are several reasons more experienced pilots may want to leave probes out when they jump. They can act as a decoy to make people think someone is in system. Or you can jump back in and scan again in the exact same position. And I'm sure there are more that I don't regularly use/know about. Operation Write Down All the Things!! G-Doc list at http://bit.ly/wdatt or the Eve-áforum post at http://bit.ly/I56ebm |
Cassie Martin
Salty Nut Attack Squirrels
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:27:00 -
[46] - Quote
I've been messing around with the new scanner setup on Singularity and I LOVE it. So much easier to use than the current. Good work boys. |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear Limitless Inc.
123
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
I Love it all. . .
1) PLEASE make it so that probes start centered around your ships current position.
2) PLEASE consider a possible refund of the points we put into the Level 8 Probing skills that are now - not really worth the clone cost! I have an 18M SP toon that doesn't really have anything more than Probing related skills :)
Cheers |
|
CCP Paradox
863
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:What happened to the plan to be able to access all POS structures from anywhere within the POS shields? Not sure why that would be in this dev blog about probes.
That is on Team Five O, another team in EVE Development. The POS features in this dev blog are just the ones Super Friends has done.
And being able to access any POS structures inside the shield is implemented for Odyssey (by aforementioned Team Five O). CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
|
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
158
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere.
Mining in a Wormhole now:
Watch out for dem probes!
Mining in a wormhole with Odyssey:
You're never going to know what hits you until it bump-decloaks right into you. |
poppeteer
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:34:00 -
[50] - Quote
So much promise. Such failed finishing. |
|
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
446
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere. Mining in a Wormhole now: Watch out for dem probes! Mining in a wormhole with Odyssey: You're never going to know what hits you until it bump-decloaks right into you. Can't you collapse the statics and then scan for new sigs while mining?
I'm not a wh dude, but that is what i have heard. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere.
I know, RITE? Who needs to worry about seeing someone scanning you down when you can see their ship.
Now, if only there were some functionality that I could use, that would allow me to hide from d-scan... Perhaps like some sort of cloaking device?
Maybe we could even put it on a ship that can warp while cloaked!
That would be so cash, I can't wait to see something like that go live. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Extinction Level Event.
472
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:What happened to the plan to be able to access all POS structures from anywhere within the POS shields? Not sure why that would be in this dev blog about probes. That is on Team Five O, another team in EVE Development. The POS features in this dev blog are just the ones Super Friends has done. And being able to access any POS structures inside the shield is implemented for Odyssey (by aforementioned Team Five O).
So, most of the POS works were spread?... I hope that the next expansion get some focus on it... Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
Logix42
HELLSINKER
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Can't you collapse the statics and then scan for new sigs while mining?
I'm not a wh dude, but that is what i have heard. As soon as you close statics new ones open. Operation Write Down All the Things!! G-Doc list at http://bit.ly/wdatt or the Eve-áforum post at http://bit.ly/I56ebm |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
101
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:41:00 -
[55] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Quote:You launch all probes in your launcher at once, regardless of how many you currently have loaded. You can have a maximum of 8 probes in space at the same time. All players can use 8 probes now by default as the Astrometrics skill no longer limits the number. This is a bad mechanic. Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined. This is a bad mechanic. Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space! I was ready to say this was a bad mechanic, but with the caveat that the previous position and formation is restored on deployment this mechanic is fine. And removing DSP and any indication of signal strength on the scan overlay and in the window is an absolutely awful, awful mechanic that requires much better justification than what we were given. Justification (and mention) strangely absent in your devblog.
What this guy said (took out the quotes for good as there is a quote limit). Say you've d-scanned your target down and you're right "next" to him, you just want your probes right where you are so you can find your new neighbour. Or you're roaming through wormholes, launching probes and cloaking as quick as can be without needing to reload each transition. Now...well, now you have to reload every time you launch probes, unless you mistyped and really meant "all probes up to the maximum, which is 8". Even drones aren't instantaneous, nor should they, or the probes, be. There should be a penalty for forgetting your probes. What position is remembered? Relative to what? Per system (since systems all have different sizes and layouts)?
WTF are you people thinking? There is no good reason for any of the above mentioned negatives. Overall I like the changes, but it's almost as if you're making changes just to make changes, without actually thinking of the changes. Change! |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
447
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:*snip*
The automatic recall of probes means that there is less chance of people being stranded in unknown space and having to find their way out by contacting locals, asking for help on the forums, or suicide their way home. You are actively removing consequences. Sure, you have lots of new players complaining that the consequences are too severe: this is a reflection on their unreadiness to face loss, rather than loss in the game being a bad thing. This. Removing consequences appears to be the exact opposite of past CCP / EVE design themes -- and the base reason why many folks subscribe to the EVE-O entertainment service. Boggles the mind....
William Sedgwick Vyvorant wrote:Durzel wrote:The faction probe market is going to take a pretty big hit. The only time people are going to lose probes is when they get blown up, rather than due to being forgetful or ignoring popups. My thoughts exactly, as someone who's spent a lot of their available playing time getting good standings for SoE to run level 4's I'm more than a little annoyed that in one fell swoop CCP can destroy the market I used to make a nice chunk of ISK from, guess I'll need to find something else to do. Yes, well, CCP has a clear history of obliterating the value gained from training up a profession or set of skills. Look at research skills and how badly CCP shafted those who had a mess of research agents set up. We have also seen this behavior from CCP in the PvP realm with countless nerfs associated with lengthy skill trains. +++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark GÇ£SeleeneGÇ¥ Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith. |
Warcalibre
FDA Shipwrights Tri-Star Galactic Industries
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
Shocked. As others have pointed out, many of these design decisions have consequences CCP either does not realize or does not care about. Also, the addition of new modules will effectively put an end to combat ships running both combat and non-combat sites. Have the loot drops or sig spawn rates been scaled to reflect this fact? I am guessing not. So now I can run combat OR non-combat sites for less isk overall?
Also, please remove the loot pinata. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
Logix42 wrote:Scan probes recalling on jump / dock is ridiculous.
1) You are not keeping true to the core of EVE Online. Actions have consequences If someone leaves probes behind and gets stuck in a wormhole, or has to fly 10 jumps to buy more probes, that is good. Auto-recalling is bad hand holding and fundamentally flawed. Just don't.
2) There are several reasons more experienced pilots may want to leave probes out when they jump. They can act as a decoy to make people think someone is in system. Or you can jump back in and scan again in the exact same position. And I'm sure there are more that I don't regularly use/know about.
This^
Why can't drones be auto-recalled when I jump out of system? Why can't they auto-recall when someone is shooting at them? Why do I have to buy ammo for my guns in the first place?? They should come preloaded with infinite ammo!
The fact that no matter what I do I can't loose any probes is utterly ridiculous. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1900
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere. Mining in a Wormhole now: Watch out for dem probes! Mining in a wormhole with Odyssey: You're never going to know what hits you until it bump-decloaks right into you. Can't you collapse the statics and then scan for new sigs while mining? I'm not a wh dude, but that is what i have heard. Collapsing statics is a long, dangerous process for a solo miner. Its not really feasible in this case. The best a solo W Space miner can do is mined aligned, at speed, and when someone pops up next to you hope you can click warp faster than they can click lock. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Brother Rometheus
GoD SwarM
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
Liking the sound of all the new changes Personally i have always found scanning to be more fidly/frustrating than it needed be ! Especially when loosing my probes because i didn't recall them . This should open up a very exciting sounding part of the game for me and newer players alike .
Good job |
|
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
335
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 16:56:00 -
[61] - Quote
Why haven't you done anything with the Astrometric Acquitision skill?
Exploration scanning is so fast that it's pretty pointless to train that skill very high, just so save a silly fraction of a second. I routinely train almost everything to 5, but this particular skill I've chosen to leave at 4, because it simply isn't worth 19 days to save 0.5 seconds.
Please improve the game, so as to give me a good reason to tain Astro. Acquisition to 5! |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
449
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:Logix42 wrote:Scan probes recalling on jump / dock is ridiculous.
1) You are not keeping true to the core of EVE Online. Actions have consequences If someone leaves probes behind and gets stuck in a wormhole, or has to fly 10 jumps to buy more probes, that is good. Auto-recalling is bad hand holding and fundamentally flawed. Just don't.
2) There are several reasons more experienced pilots may want to leave probes out when they jump. They can act as a decoy to make people think someone is in system. Or you can jump back in and scan again in the exact same position. And I'm sure there are more that I don't regularly use/know about. This^ Why can't drones be auto-recalled when I jump out of system? Why can't they auto-recall when someone is shooting at them? Why do I have to buy ammo for my guns in the first place?? They should come preloaded with infinite ammo! The fact that no matter what I do I can't loose any probes is utterly ridiculous. Let me expand, you are loosing the sense of danger you had in wormholes.The sense of venturing into the unknown, a place where you don't know if you are going to be able to get out (even if no one is there). Now WH space is safe. You can't get stuck. This is what is lost with this mechanic change.You made an expedition into the amazonian rainforest look like a trip to Disneyland... Liked and quoted for truth.
+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark GÇ£SeleeneGÇ¥ Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith. |
Nica Demus
Sonoran Shadow
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:03:00 -
[63] - Quote
First off, WH mining just became so ridiculously dangerous that I'm surprised WH mining sites aren't being accompanied by an enormous buff. It's always been hard to catch miners who are on their toes because they were attentive to dscan, but now -- in a WH system that is bigger than dscan range -- I don't see how they stay safe without someone constantly counting signatures. Please consider keeping WH mining sites as something that needs to be scanned down. The risk / reward is out of balance.
I would like to see the auto-probe recall be an option since as many people have mentioned, there are practical uses for leaving probes behind.
The DSP and the ability to use mixed probes was an integral part of high-level scanning. Identifying signatures by their signature strength just became harder to do and more time consuming. While the pre-set formations and launching multiple probes is handy, it seems as though all of the high-level probing techniques are being removed, and scanning will no longer be based as much on player skill.
Can i ask for a more detailed explanation on why removing the DSP balances scanning? I really don't understand. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
677
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
Dumbing down the game. Not cool. R Tape Loading Error |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3486
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:10:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP SoniClover, overall my congratulations to Team Five O for an excellent feature set: I'm looking forward to most of the expansion content that your team has been working on (with obvious exceptions, see the previous 6 pages of this thread, LOL, and my concerns regarding loot spew).
One change I would like to suggest is to use the word "constellation" when referring to groupings of scanner probes, since "formations" is already associated with fleets of space ships. At some future point in time when CCP wishes to implement fleet formations, it might become confusing if you also use "formations" to describe the arrangement of scanner probes in space.
Thank you, and good luck!
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:11:00 -
[66] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Why haven't you done anything with the Astrometric Acquitision skill?
Exploration scanning is so fast that it's pretty pointless to train that skill very high, just so save a silly fraction of a second. I routinely train almost everything to 5, but this particular skill I've chosen to leave at 4, because it simply isn't worth 19 days to save 0.5 seconds.
Please improve the game, so as to give me a good reason to tain Astro. Acquisition to 5!
how about if you take this skill to 5, then your probes (both core and combats) will expand to 256 au? this would be a decent replacement for DSP removal. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
949
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Changing grav sites to anoms is still a horrible idea. If you want to make scanning easier and more fun for new players, then make grav sites part of this. For instance, the new ice belt system will necessitate the profession, not remove it. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:Salpad wrote:Why haven't you done anything with the Astrometric Acquitision skill?
Exploration scanning is so fast that it's pretty pointless to train that skill very high, just so save a silly fraction of a second. I routinely train almost everything to 5, but this particular skill I've chosen to leave at 4, because it simply isn't worth 19 days to save 0.5 seconds.
Please improve the game, so as to give me a good reason to tain Astro. Acquisition to 5! how about if you take this skill to 5, then your probes (both core and combats) will expand to 256 au? this would be a decent replacement for DSP removal.
Careful what you wish for. You're likely to have probes that are permanently stuck at 256AU, and if you want a smaller size, you'll need to launch a different set. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3486
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:16:00 -
[69] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Why haven't you done anything with the Astrometric Acquitision skill?
Exploration scanning is so fast that it's pretty pointless to train that skill very high, just so save a silly fraction of a second. I routinely train almost everything to 5, but this particular skill I've chosen to leave at 4, because it simply isn't worth 19 days to save 0.5 seconds.
Please improve the game, so as to give me a good reason to tain Astro. Acquisition to 5!
I'll second this sentiment. The speed of getting 100% hits in scanning is too damn high!
If scanning started out at, say, 30 seconds (just lke the system scanner used to for a non-probe scan for anomalies), and Astrometric Acquisition would reduce it by, say, 4 seconds per attempt, we'd be back to 10 seconds for highly skilled probers, 5 seconds if they have the appropriate implants and modules. This would also mean that fleets looking to hunt down ships in space would want to bring a specialist prober in order to quickly find that target.
Having a long initial scan time with a larger decrement per skill level will also add a significant feeling of progress as the player's character becomes better trained and equipped for the role.
Having a minimum scan time of 10 seconds for a prober without the best gear and implants would also increase the window during which d-scan spam must be performed, thus reducing load on the server somewhat, no?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
950
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
I also agree with no auto recall. But if you insist, then why not just make that an option? Default is on....you choose to turn it off. Everyone is happy.
Why does it seem like every change you want to make to the game is all or nothing? One thing that is great about eve is your actions have consequence, good or bad. Why not let us make more decisions not less? Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
513
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:18:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:One change I would like to suggest is to use the word "constellation" when referring to groupings of scanner probes, since "formations" is already associated with fleets of space ships. At some future point in time when CCP wishes to implement fleet formations, it might become confusing if you also use "formations" to describe the arrangement of scanner probes in space.
I have to disagree here. There are already constellations, and they do not resemble probe configurations in the slightest. I'd prefer configurations (heh), patterns or formations: after all, even if the latter is eventually used for ship formations, at least the analogy is directly accurate. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
210
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:21:00 -
[72] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:Logix42 wrote:Scan probes recalling on jump / dock is ridiculous.
1) You are not keeping true to the core of EVE Online. Actions have consequences If someone leaves probes behind and gets stuck in a wormhole, or has to fly 10 jumps to buy more probes, that is good. Auto-recalling is bad hand holding and fundamentally flawed. Just don't.
2) There are several reasons more experienced pilots may want to leave probes out when they jump. They can act as a decoy to make people think someone is in system. Or you can jump back in and scan again in the exact same position. And I'm sure there are more that I don't regularly use/know about. This^ Why can't drones be auto-recalled when I jump out of system? Why can't they auto-recall when someone is shooting at them? Why do I have to buy ammo for my guns in the first place?? They should come preloaded with infinite ammo! The fact that no matter what I do I can't loose any probes is utterly ridiculous. Let me expand, you are loosing the sense of danger you had in wormholes.The sense of venturing into the unknown, a place where you don't know if you are going to be able to get out (even if no one is there). Now WH space is safe. You can't get stuck. This is what is lost with this mechanic change.You made an expedition into the amazonian rainforest look like a trip to Disneyland... Gonna have to quote both of these posters. They speak the truth and CCP ought to take notice.
Auto-recalling probes is a stupid change. You already alert noobs with a popup that says "hey, stupid, you're leaving your probes behind!" That's not good enough? Is reading no longer a required skill in Eve? There's no reason to have probes auto recall, magically and instantly--they shouldn't auto recall at all! It's not a "new player problem" if somebody doesn't read. That's the fault of any player, and it's not your job to make sure people are reading, or since they aren't, hold their hand for them.
If probes can auto recall, then I agree that drones should as well. Or maybe ships could auto-target broadcasted targets, since, you know, new players may not know how to target a broadcast. Hell, the FC should be able to jump for everyone, too, since maybe they didn't get the command to jump.
Just stop with the handholding. Launching all the probes, probe formations? Ok. It was a hassle to click launch probe 8 times. Or to carefully move them into your desired orientation. But recalling them already has a warning. Leave it at that. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3486
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:22:00 -
[73] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:how about if you take this skill to 5, then your probes (both core and combats) will expand to 256 au? this would be a decent replacement for DSP removal.
The tradeoff that DSP made for their 256AU scan range was a signal strength of 5. Contrast this to a Core Scanner Probe with base strength of 40 or a Combat Scanner Probe with base strength of 20. Thus DSPs are good at picking up far-away signals, but very bad at picking details out. It's difficult to get a 100% hit with DSPs: you would typically only use DSPs for finding a local region of space in which to deploy a tight constellation of core or combat scanner probes.
So there's another way that DSPs could have been nerfed in order to reduce their efficacy as pre-scan filters: increase their signal strength to 20, meaning that there is more variation in cosmic signature signal returns.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
8435
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:25:00 -
[74] - Quote
It's getting closer...
|
|
Azia Burgi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:27:00 -
[75] - Quote
Overall I think these changes are going to spice up exploration. It is certainly going to make it more difficult to find uncontested sites, I guess we will all have to travel even further to get the goodies without finding a damn Tengu already there.
I am concerned about the probe expiry changes, doesn't this effectively kill the build market for probes? To be honest I have thought this mechanic has been broken for some time, it is just more evident now. Once buying your first set of probes there is no incentive to purchase more as the original set will never expire or get used up (unless of course you get blown up).
Probes, even the faction ones, are like T1 laser crystals. They never ever run out. This is surely an oversight?
To fix this I propose you make probes single use by removing the recall button. This will mean you will need to carry a supply of probes on all exploration expeditions.
I personally haven't needed to buy or make any probes for about 3 years.
Azia |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3487
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:28:00 -
[76] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:EVE needs the little niggles to help people cope and learn to stand on their own two feet and/or establish friendships with people who complement their skill sets: everything from leaving that distribution mission cargo 6 jumps away, losing probes when jumping through wormholes, through to forgetting to insure their combat ship before heading out to look for a fight.
And, in some cases, having their preferred style of game play changed into something they don't like. I'm out of this fight for now.
I'll focus on supporting CCP in the parts of this expansion that I expect to enjoy.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
iskflakes
471
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
DSP should not be removed - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2974
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:29:00 -
[78] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote: Just stop with the handholding. Launching all the probes, probe formations? Ok. It was a hassle to click launch probe 8 times. Or to carefully move them into your desired orientation. But recalling them already has a warning. Leave it at that.
Other modules have a setting for auto-repeat. Enabling this functionality would have solved the keypress repetition issue (which wasn't a major issue) while keeping the side effects of launching one probe at a time (your ship and probes are visible on dscan for longer time than Odyssey)
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Startled Staffer
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:31:00 -
[79] - Quote
***reserved*** |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1901
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:31:00 -
[80] - Quote
Auto probe recall is not handholding, its part of the war on http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3488
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:32:00 -
[81] - Quote
Azia Burgi wrote:I am concerned about the probe expiry changes, doesn't this effectively kill the build market for probes? To be honest I have thought this mechanic has been broken for some time, it is just more evident now. Once buying your first set of probes there is no incentive to purchase more as the original set will never expire or get used up (unless of course you get blown up).
But think of all the poor newbies who get lost in Unknown space without probes. Think of the GM time that will be saved not having to clean up after the poor newbies' messes! If CCP can trim the number of GMs, there's more money to spend on flying in space.
Perhaps CCP might remove BPOs for probes and just sell them through the FW LP stores. There's no market for them anyway.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3488
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:34:00 -
[82] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:One change I would like to suggest is to use the word "constellation" when referring to groupings of scanner probes, since "formations" is already associated with fleets of space ships. At some future point in time when CCP wishes to implement fleet formations, it might become confusing if you also use "formations" to describe the arrangement of scanner probes in space. I have to disagree here. There are already constellations, and they do not resemble probe configurations in the slightest. I'd prefer configurations (heh), patterns or formations: after all, even if the latter is eventually used for ship formations, at least the analogy is directly accurate.
OH derp. Yes, we have constellations of systems in the map.
Yes, perhaps pattern would be more suitable.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Warwick Bentley
Indulgent Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space!
If there was one thing I had placed great hope in for this release it was the exploration and probing changes. Unfortunately, the announced changes so far have been either cosmetic or unhelpful, addressing issues that were not problems by substantially changing the functionality of the probing system.
It seems to me that the automatic recall when leaving a system was necessitated by the implementation of automatic recall when the probe flight timer runs out. If you were able to leave a system with probes out and they tried to automatically recall when they expired, what would happen if you weren't there to receive them? Presto chango! CCP implements a new 'feature' of recalling probes automatically when docking or leaving system.
In other words, to fix the trivial problem of probe loss by timer expiration required a change that became advertised as a feature. That it affects very useful and non-exploitative probe functionality doesn't seem to be an obstacle.
I second the previous posters who have observed that these changes seem poorly thought out. Marketing fiddling as a significant change leads to players being disappointed when they see the results. I understand its hard to fix these kind of systems, but I think there were options available that take into account how players use them. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3488
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:41:00 -
[84] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Can't you collapse the statics and then scan for new sigs while mining?
I'm not a wh dude, but that is what i have heard.
That used to be done with DSPs. Without DSPs, you'd only have a list of signatures with variable signal strengths. Of course you could be really clueless and probe to 100% and warp to each wormhole signature. This is a huge mistake made by noob w-space people (like I myself was one day) because that turns the other end from a 0.05% signature which most people won't bother with because they know it's just a wormhole, into a 0.27% signature which every PvPer is looking for because a K162 means HEY! THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE and if there are people in a wormhole, it usually means they're filthy rich and have lots of juicy loot to plunder.
So what happens when you collapse the static is that it will at some point respawn (that's why it's called a static). At that point you will have your static wormhole in w-space, and a corresponding wormhole elsewhere (in hisec, lowsec, nullsec, other wspace). So seeing that new signature tells you nothing.
To replicate the old behaviour with DPS, you'd just have to keep probing and watch for that new signature increasing significantly in signal strength (because it's turned from a 0.05% N110 wormhole into a 0.27% K162), and you'll need more probers because you can no longer cover the whole system with 8 core scanner probes. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
211
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:45:00 -
[85] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Auto probe recall is not hand holding, its part of the war on clicks. Drop probes scan, recall, over and over. More often than most other actions when you are exploring. Click click click. Well, now there is one less.
Is there still an "abandon probes" option? And if you do, will "reconnect" get them back? Ok, then let's remove the click to launch probes too! I mean, seriously, Vincent, 1 click to launch probes and 1 click to retrieve. It's not that hard.
|
Dmitri Ronuken
ReStore of Reset The Superpowers
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:46:00 -
[86] - Quote
Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
Well... crap. Functionally, all "hidden" belts are identical to regular belts now.
No one but the largest most well-defended of mining fleets would mine the regular lowsec belts. It certainly wasn't for lack of ore content (Hedbergite and Hemorphite in the .02 or lower sec systems is worth more than all but Arkonor and Mercoxit mining), but because the utter lack of safety for a solo/small group to mine in. PvPers or ratters could warp to a belt without using any probes (and thus without giving miners any warning) and even if they had been looking to just take on the belt rats that spawn, a defenseless 30+ mil barge that only shoots back with drones is a much easier and rewarding target.
And you can just forget about anyone but the most ignorant player attempting mining daytrips into wormholes. Mining areas are now one of two areas (the other being the combat anomalies) anyone can warp right to without the use of probes. While in lowsec, small group mining may resort to completely warping away the second someone appears in local at all, wormhole space doesn't even have a local and miners will only find out that they are not alone when a cloaked t3 decloaks 2 km away from them. Only the larger wormhole corps that can defend their entire system will be wormhole mining now, and even then they might still consider it too risky if they have a static to another high-class wormhole.
None of this is fun for miners, and it removes ore as a prize for learning exploration. Why would mining-focused players even want to get into exploration now? Small group mining will effectively be a suicide mission outside of highsec with these changes, and if CCP thought these changes would bring together miners and PvPers to do mining ops... just, no. Miners don't like getting ganked with no warning and thus no chance of escape, and PvPers don't like mining, and even the ones that do won't go on a mining op only to not mine themselves. I'm pretty sure the cost of losing an entire mining fleet or paying a merc corp for escort duty far outweighs the higher-cost ore that could be mined in lowsec vs highsec. |
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
241
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:49:00 -
[87] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere. I know, RITE? Who needs to worry about seeing someone scanning you down when you can see their ship. Now, if only there were some functionality that I could use, that would allow me to hide from d-scan... Perhaps like some sort of cloaking device? Maybe we could even put it on a ship that can warp while cloaked! That would be so cash, I can't wait to see something like that go live.
hee hee I lol'd. good work. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2976
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:49:00 -
[88] - Quote
Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3489
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:50:00 -
[89] - Quote
Warwick Bentley wrote:In other words, to fix the trivial problem of probe loss by timer expiration required a change that became advertised as a feature. That it affects very useful and non-exploitative probe functionality doesn't seem to be an obstacle.
I think the entire idea of recalling probes automatically was to address the loss of probes by people who don't know what they are doing.
Those of us who have been long term subscribers are part of a niche of players who like hard games. So EVE now has a population of people who like hard games: all 300 thousand of us who live on the planet. To expand out of this niche, EVE has to cater to people who like the single-shard science fiction universe, but don't like hard games.
The next stage of course is to remove probes as items in the game and just have the probe launcher always launch 8 probes. Then there's no need to recall probes to the ship for fear of losing them and stranding the player in unknown space.
It's unfair to new players to cause them to feel loss. It's especially unfair to have regions of space which are easily accessible but very easy to get lost in. I wonder how many potential subscribers have been scared off because EVE was such a harsh universe to play in?
We need to drop this fascination with EVE being a harsh, cold universe. We need to take better care of new players, and perhaps consider treating them with kid gloves from time to time, and picking up their toys for them when they forget to clean up after themselves.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Savira Terrant
N0IR.
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
You know, I really try to keep a positive view of CCPs attitude when changing stuff. And I am not saying changing stuff is bad.
But CCP please tell your marketing guys not to lie to us, when you don't even listen to the feedback of those who actually tested the stuff you change and constuctivly participated when you asked for feedback on the testserver forums (as you do ask us to give it a chance before condamning stuff quite a lot - showing that you actually have quite the hard time to listen to your long standing customers in the first place) .
Don't tell us we are EVE and this is our game, when in reality it is your ego playground and you do what you wanted in the first place anyway. I am fine with the latter. Just don't tell us lies to make yourself feel better. In the end we are all free to do what we want and live with the consequences. And this is no personal attack on this particular team, it's something CCP as a whole has to grow out of (who forces you developers to waste time on the feedback forums anyway, if the same instance is not making sure to make their marketing agenda something that really happens and are not shallow and biased words to make us hold out a bit longer? - Not that I'll stop playing anyway, it still makes me mad.
I don't even care to elaborate here of what all this feedback was all about, the testserver feedback thread is full of it, but let me say this: your super long list of "awesome" new changes plus the picture of the scanning window just make me furious and is only topped off by using the scanning overlay as the lame excuse that it is.
I have to make myself stop, otherwise I'll be at it for hours. o/
And repair the goddam forums, I never wrote a post and actually were able to just click post. Copying all my text, click post, repaste and click post is something I have never experienced on any other forum. Drafts are bullshit. . |
|
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
241
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:54:00 -
[91] - Quote
Nica Demus wrote:First off, WH mining just became so ridiculously dangerous that I'm surprised WH mining sites aren't being accompanied by an enormous buff. It's always been hard to catch miners who are on their toes because they were attentive to dscan, but now -- in a WH system that is bigger than dscan range -- I don't see how they stay safe without someone constantly counting signatures. Please consider keeping WH mining sites as something that needs to be scanned down. The risk / reward is out of balance.
You're doing it wrong mining solo?
When my corp had a wh we mined sites with the system entrances watched and bubbled with other security on standby, and everyone shared the profits.
Teamwork is the best counter to this change in other words and for those already doing teamwork it doesn't really change anything. |
Lirinas
B.C.C.O.F Investments
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:56:00 -
[92] - Quote
As a long-time explorer that's run through every iteration of the scanning system, this is the first time I feel the system has taken a step backwards. Some of the changes are logical and should have been implemented a long time ago. Renaming the old Gravimetric/Ladar/etc sites to more logical names is smart. However most of the other changes are less than stellar.
Why remove the Deep Space Probes? I used those extensively as a quick system-wide scan since they were the only probe that was guaranteed to be able to scan even the largest solar systems. With the size of some systems, even a full 8 probes can't fully scan the system the same way a single DSP could scan it.
Why remove Ore sites completely from the exploration system? I can see a viable reason for making some Ore sites as Anomalies now (especially if they ever fully remove static Asteroid Belts like they are Ice belts) , but why not leave smaller, more-valuable Ore sites as Signatures? I see no logical reason for this move.
I agree with others about the skill changes too. As a Rank 8 skill, Astrometric Rangefinding gives a very small benefit in comparison to it's skill training time. Maybe the Tech 2 modules will make up for that, although I really don't see the need for those modules in general.
Speaking of the new modules. What's the point in them? Combat ships will rarely use them because, well, they're combat ships. Specialized scanning ships won't need them because, well, they can already do their job pretty good. I would have rather seen some new probes types and functionality introduced (I've seen some pretty cool ideas too).
I can't comment too much on Probe formations since I've not seen that on SiSi yet. Sounds like a neat idea, but also an unfinished idea.
I'm not too fond of the "fire all probes at once" idea. Launching 4 at a time, with a faster probe reload speed would have been much preferable. Oh, maybe change Astrometric Acquisition to something more useful, like reducing probe reload speeds greatly? |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
97
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 17:58:00 -
[93] - Quote
Launching of probes is also a hamfisted solution. If I want to launch just one I have to:
1. unload all the probes 2. load just one (if they are all in one pile I have to open cargo hold, drag-drop the pile on the cargo hold to separate just one) 3. load the lone probe 4. launch the probe
...or the other way:
1. launch all the probes 2. shift click 7 of them 3. recall the ones I just highligthed
Similar mechanic if you want any number other than... say, the maximum the launcher can hold.
I can't believe this is the best you could come up with. So much for improving the UI experience.
Why not leave it as before, but add a "launch all probes" button in the scanning window next to the recall button...or the other way around, leave it as it is (in vomit mode) and add a button next to the recall one that launches probes one by one (ala pre-oddysey).
Or add the options to the nifty radial scanner menu?
Or add a new radial menu to the actual module?
Or add it to the right click menu for that module?
|
Steijn
Quay Industries CAStabouts
303
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:03:00 -
[94] - Quote
1 - Auto-recall needs to be done away with, or at the very least, optional via a checkbox.
2 - when probes are released they should be released AT the position my ship releases them, not some obscure focal point of your designation. |
Steffi Glitterfluff
Viziam Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:09:00 -
[95] - Quote
Havent download latest sisi yet , but What happens with POS rework where we can open any labs/array from any distance within pos shield ? is still being release with odessy ? |
Steffi Glitterfluff
Viziam Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:09:00 -
[96] - Quote
sorry doublepost |
Nar Tha
Neural-Boost.com
116
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:12:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hi.
In the devblog it says DSPs are changing into combat probes. In this post it says they are changing into core probes. Which one is correct? |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Roime wrote:Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?
yes. we have entered the realm of magic now.
apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming.
we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks. |
Savira Terrant
N0IR.
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:12:00 -
[99] - Quote
Well, don't waste your time here everyone. They won't pull back on something they've put full 7 sprints on (actually to call it sprints is quite applicable here, since they just sprinted through production without even looking back and think "Hey what the hell have we done here? Now the system is totally broken!"). The cosmetic stuff looks juicy, but that's about it. . |
|
CCP Paradox
869
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:14:00 -
[100] - Quote
Nar Tha wrote:Hi. In the devblog it says DSPs are changing into combat probes. In this post it says they are changing into core probes. Which one is correct?
We initially decided upon Core probes, but this is incorrect. Combat probes will be exchanged for the Deep Space Probe removal. Changing DSP into Core didn't seem right, as Combat probes could still locate ships/structures etc the same as a DSP could. CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
|
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
71
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:14:00 -
[101] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:Roime wrote:Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?
yes. we have entered the realm of magic now. apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming. we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks.
but let a probe scan at 256au? hell no. that's not scientifically feasible... |
Startled Staffer
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:19:00 -
[102] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:Logix42 wrote:Scan probes recalling on jump / dock is ridiculous.
1) You are not keeping true to the core of EVE Online. Actions have consequences If someone leaves probes behind and gets stuck in a wormhole, or has to fly 10 jumps to buy more probes, that is good. Auto-recalling is bad hand holding and fundamentally flawed. Just don't.
2) There are several reasons more experienced pilots may want to leave probes out when they jump. They can act as a decoy to make people think someone is in system. Or you can jump back in and scan again in the exact same position. And I'm sure there are more that I don't regularly use/know about. This^ Why can't drones be auto-recalled when I jump out of system? Why can't they auto-recall when someone is shooting at them? Why do I have to buy ammo for my guns in the first place?? They should come preloaded with infinite ammo! The fact that no matter what I do I can't loose any probes is utterly ridiculous. Let me expand, you are loosing the sense of danger you had in wormholes.The sense of venturing into the unknown, a place where you don't know if you are going to be able to get out (even if no one is there). Now WH space is safe. You can't get stuck. This is what is lost with this mechanic change.You made an expedition into the amazonian rainforest look like a trip to Disneyland...
Quoted for Truth |
Startled Staffer
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:21:00 -
[103] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere. Mining in a Wormhole now: Watch out for dem probes! Mining in a wormhole with Odyssey: You're never going to know what hits you until it bump-decloaks right into you. Can't you collapse the statics and then scan for new sigs while mining? I'm not a wh dude, but that is what i have heard. Collapsing statics is a long, dangerous process for a solo miner. Its not really feasible in this case. The best a solo W Space miner can do is mined aligned, at speed, and when someone pops up next to you hope you can click warp faster than they can click lock.
And you can, at best, only do that 50% of the time. If you mine aligned and at speed, then you will constantly be leaving mining range, and be forced to backtrack your entire path just so you can turn around and make another run at full speed. Then repeat.... |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2978
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:28:00 -
[104] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:Roime wrote:Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?
yes. we have entered the realm of magic now. apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming. we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks.
Well there goes another aspect of probes and dscan intel.
How do they return to the formation after relaunch, same magic?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
212
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:32:00 -
[105] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:Roime wrote:Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?
yes. we have entered the realm of magic now. apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming. we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks. This change...hit me...right in the immersion.
|
Lorna Sicling
Helix Pulse Brothers of Tangra
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:37:00 -
[106] - Quote
Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore.
Bizzarely It's going to be safer to mine in the belts as at least the ganker will have to actually think and use their directional scanner - which is an art many have probably not even learnt since they instead had to practice and perfect the quick use of probes to locate their prey. Now they jump and click on the "warp to" button for the grav site.
You should have just left it at the also dumbed down mechanic of click to instantly launch all probes in a good scanning formation. Before, when a cloaky ship wanted to launch probes they had to stay uncloaked for a number of seconds while they launched probes, which was often enough time for the defender to get intel on the attacker and then decide how / if to reship and respond. You've even taken that away from the defender.
Way to dumb down Eve.
This is a seriously anti-industrialist, pro-PvP expansion. I'm not against pro-PvP, but New Eden needs balance, and I'm afraid this isn't it. Industrialist - currently renting in null sec.
Writer of the blog "A Scientist's Life in Eve" - proud member of the Eve Blog Pack |
Vakasho Umi Kenshar
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:37:00 -
[107] - Quote
Oh, almost forgot to tell people who haven't tried the scanning changes on Sisi yet: As a few have already mentioned in this thread, astrometric skills have been altered and yield less effect, but there are now modules to compensate, or even give better results.
What is not mentioned, is that those are only med slots modules, like the analyzers you'll probably have to use if you want to run profession sites. So, now, you'll have to choose a ship with enough meds too if you want to remain competitive. |
Azia Burgi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:38:00 -
[108] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Perhaps CCP might remove BPOs for probes and just sell them through the FW LP stores. There's no market for them anyway. There isn't a market for them because they never expire. If you make them expire people will need to buy them and you have suddenly created a market.
Never-ending probes with magic teleport abilities are pointless. You might as well do away with the whole probe system and merge the functionality with the d-scan.
Azia |
Azia Burgi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:42:00 -
[109] - Quote
Vakasho Umi Kenshar wrote:Oh, almost forgot to tell people who haven't tried the scanning changes on Sisi yet: As a few have already mentioned in this thread, astrometric skills have been altered and yield less effect, but there are now modules to compensate, or even give better results.
What is not mentioned, is that those are only med slots modules, like the analyzers you'll probably have to use if you want to run profession sites. So, now, you'll have to choose a ship with enough meds too if you want to remain competitive. This favours the Tengu yet again. I am forever locating exploration sites that have just been completed by a T3.
Azia |
Savira Terrant
N0IR.
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:43:00 -
[110] - Quote
Btw. the mechanics changes done have nothing to do with accessablility. Those are just purely to dumb the game down in order to attract the masses... it's a shareholder company after all. Figuring out a good probe formation? Nvm the game does that for you now. Thus dumbing down. Accessability would have been achieved by having a class for dummies (I very much needed it back in the days) in-game (Hail the Wiki - NOT). Something which will turn away many of the people from the start, when they have to leave the game in order to be taught how the mechanic works. Is that solved now at least? . |
|
Alundil
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
200
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:50:00 -
[111] - Quote
As a player who has spent the majority of my EVE time in w-space I have this to say:
Likes: * Exploration changes (not solely related to w-space) - enhancements * LOVE faction tower and mod BPCs becoming available once again through exploration * 3D Overlay of scanning results * Ability to drop probes all at once and the formation "possibilities" (I say possibilities as I hope that the the mentioned iterations on this happen and soon) * Graphical enhancement to the scanning window (fluff perhaps - but a nice update) * Personal Hangar Arrays (hopefully managing these is not a CF like the rest of the POS management functions * Defaulting the probe movement to all probes instead of single probe * Mods that improve scanning attributes
Dislikes: * Auto-recall of probes - this is bad for many reasons and all reasons. * 8 probes launched instead of 7 - why? * Can't launch single probe (or fewer than 8).....WHY? * Removal of DSP - these offered a great deal of usefulness in terms of narrowing signatures ([u]miiiight[/i] be mitigated by the 3D overlay but no idea yet * Probes should show on Solar System map at the location they are dropped at...PERIOD. * Grav (ORE) Sites becoming anomalies instead of signatures......terrible terrible idea - this will further de-incentivize miners from risking anything other than a throw-away hull in w-space Grav (ORE) sites. Seeing the sites on the 3D overlay is fine but removing the need to probe any of these sites down is too far in the wrong direction.
As a follow-on to the last point: removal of belts (ice/ore) to sigs that would have to be scanned down was hailed as a bold move in terms of, both, further immersion to a profession sadly lacking as well as a strike against mining bots as they would no longer be able to simple warp to a spot and activate F*. With this change, you've removed the potential burden (having to scan down new mining sites) that botters might have faced and simply made them have to look for scanning results as opposed to celestial markers on the overview. Not good. Not good at all.
Hopefully there's still time to address some of these prior to the launch. If not, then the iterations on these items needs to be firmly committed to otherwise we'll see a net loss in the exploration/scanning professions as it relates to combat scanning and cloaky/scanner tactical gameplay. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
448
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
Logix42 wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:Can't you collapse the statics and then scan for new sigs while mining?
I'm not a wh dude, but that is what i have heard. As soon as you close statics new ones open. Don't warp to it. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
darius mclever
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:56:00 -
[113] - Quote
capital rigs? did i miss a dev blog for those? |
Merouk Baas
657
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 18:58:00 -
[114] - Quote
So you're going from:
Contents of container: 5 T1 missiles and 7 Burned Circuit salvage. Sorry better luck next time.
To:
Contents of containers you have managed to click on: T1 missile, T1 missile, 2 T1 missile, T1 missile, 4 salvage, 2 salvage, 1 salvage. 6 containers you didn't catch, that's where your 80 million ISK loot probably went, sorry.
And you think, from a psychology point of view, that we will like the second option more than the first, as far as reward systems go?
That's like playing slots at a casino, only instead of the machine in front of you being YOURS, a casino employee picks up a rather large jar of something from it before letting you look at the coin hopper to see if you got anything. |
Khoharis Asanari
Praetorian Guard of Honour Praetorian Directorate
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:02:00 -
[115] - Quote
What's exactly the point of probes when they can't be lost at all? Either remove them and roll their functionality into the probe launchers or rethink that magical teleportation thing. |
Caldari Citizen 20120308
State War Academy Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:07:00 -
[116] - Quote
" The main reason for this change is that the Radar/Ladar/etc. terminology is already in use elsewhere in the game and having the same term for two different things can only lead to confusion. WeGÇÖre also changing the name of the hacking and archaeology modules: - Codebreaker becomes Data Analyzer - Analyzer becomes Relic Analyzer "
Thanks for bringing some common sense to the changes in the new expansion.
|
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
536
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:10:00 -
[117] - Quote
First... Oh wait :)
While I am happy about the Overlay and Scanning changes in general there are some details left to sort out after the Expansion hits..
I will try to work with CCP to resolve all possible issues connected to above mentioned features.
If you any of you feel that changes are bad in some way please hit me up with eve mail with reasons and how would you like this or that mechanic to be implemented and I will make sure the information is available to CCP in constructive manner. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
|
Savira Terrant
N0IR.
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:16:00 -
[118] - Quote
Hey Chitsa,
thanks for showing up. Are you aware of the first few pages of the testserver feedback thread? That is a very good point to start. Basicly all what is being said here, has already been during the production phase. But without all the anger management issues and in a more constructive way, because people still had hopes. . |
PartyVaN
Beyond The Rift
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:21:00 -
[119] - Quote
If we're changing probing, can we get some different frigate skill level bonuses on the Cov-Ops ships (Buzzard/Helios/Anathema/Cheetah)? They currently all have weapon bonuses, which I'd imagine are rarely used on these ships. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3498
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:34:00 -
[120] - Quote
PartyVaN wrote:If we're changing probing, can we get some different frigate skill level bonuses on the Cov-Ops ships (Buzzard/Helios/Anathema/Cheetah)? They currently all have weapon bonuses, which I'd imagine are rarely used on these ships.
The Battle Helios pilots aren't going to like you saying such nasty things about their little baby.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
|
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
790
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:41:00 -
[121] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:If you any of you feel that changes are bad in some way please hit me up with eve mail with reasons and how would you like this or that mechanic to be implemented and I will make sure the information is available to CCP in constructive manner.
C'mon Chitsa, I know that Eve players are illiterate math challenged morons that need color bars instead of numbers but devs should be able to read what people are pointing out as bad moves at least in this thread. But take a look where dev's badge is here and it will be clear that they don't care about anybody's but their own point of view.
It started when CCP Betik saw something in metrics that justified eviscerating lowsec pvp with removal of static DEDs, with Odyssey it seems those mythical metrics show much more about how people play Eve and apparently all devs are looking at them. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Carol Krabit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:46:00 -
[122] - Quote
brb unsubbing |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
536
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:53:00 -
[123] - Quote
Savira Terrant wrote:Hey Chitsa,
thanks for showing up. Are you aware of the first few pages of the testserver feedback thread? That is a very good point to start. Basicly all what is being said here, has already been during the production phase. But without all the anger management issues and in a more constructive way, because people still had hopes.
Yes I have read the thread and posted my feedback to to CCP. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
|
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
538
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 19:59:00 -
[124] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:If you any of you feel that changes are bad in some way please hit me up with eve mail with reasons and how would you like this or that mechanic to be implemented and I will make sure the information is available to CCP in constructive manner. C'mon Chitsa, I know that Eve players are illiterate math challenged morons that need color bars instead of numbers but devs should be able to read what people are pointing out as bad moves at least in this thread. But take a look where dev's badge is here and it will be clear that they don't care about anybody's but their own point of view. It started when CCP Betik saw something in metrics that justified eviscerating lowsec pvp with removal of static DEDs, with Odyssey it seems those mythical metrics show much more about how people play Eve and apparently all devs are looking at them.
My job as CSM is to make sure player feedback is listened to. We are player representatives and I will try my best to do my job.
Antagonizing CCP will not fix issues we players want to get fixed. What is needed is constructive feedback CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
|
Steijn
Quay Industries CAStabouts
304
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:07:00 -
[125] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:If you any of you feel that changes are bad in some way please hit me up with eve mail with reasons and how would you like this or that mechanic to be implemented and I will make sure the information is available to CCP in constructive manner. C'mon Chitsa, I know that Eve players are illiterate math challenged morons that need color bars instead of numbers but devs should be able to read what people are pointing out as bad moves at least in this thread. But take a look where dev's badge is here and it will be clear that they don't care about anybody's but their own point of view. It started when CCP Betik saw something in metrics that justified eviscerating lowsec pvp with removal of static DEDs, with Odyssey it seems those mythical metrics show much more about how people play Eve and apparently all devs are looking at them. My job as CSM is to make sure player feedback is listened to. We are player representatives and I will try my best to do my job. Antagonizing CCP will not fix issues we players want to get fixed. What is needed is constructive feedback
with respect, CCP have proved in the past that constructive feedback does absolutely nothing. Most of the things they have planned in the past have eventually been changed because of the sh*tstorm that the change created, not because of us been constructive. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
790
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:08:00 -
[126] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:My job as CSM is to make sure player feedback is listened to. We are player representatives and I will try my best to do my job.
Antagonizing CCP will not fix issues we players want to get fixed. What is needed is constructive feedback
That's very nice of you and I don't say you shouldn't do that. But you have to admit there are some disturbances in the force on line what was promised, what feedback we are asked for and what is delivered.
I have an impression that only dev who actually listened to feedback in his threads and reacted on what really was pointed out as bad move is CCP Rise and his BS tiercide stickies in F&I. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:12:00 -
[127] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:If you any of you feel that changes are bad in some way please hit me up with eve mail with reasons and how would you like this or that mechanic to be implemented and I will make sure the information is available to CCP in constructive manner. C'mon Chitsa, I know that Eve players are illiterate math challenged morons that need color bars instead of numbers but devs should be able to read what people are pointing out as bad moves at least in this thread. But take a look where dev's badge is here and it will be clear that they don't care about anybody's but their own point of view. It started when CCP Betik saw something in metrics that justified eviscerating lowsec pvp with removal of static DEDs, with Odyssey it seems those mythical metrics show much more about how people play Eve and apparently all devs are looking at them. My job as CSM is to make sure player feedback is listened to. We are player representatives and I will try my best to do my job. Antagonizing CCP will not fix issues we players want to get fixed. What is needed is constructive feedback I'm not sure how involved the CSM was in the iteration of probing for the Odyssey release, but if you guys signed on to some of these changes, I'd really have to wonder if being a CSM has made you forget the very mechanics that probers use on a daily basis. And what's more, I'd love to know the CSM's feedback on such hand-holding things like automatic and magical instant recall of probes on a jump. How could that have slipped through the cracks? It's bad enough that the delay time between dropping probes and cloaking is cut, on average, by 85% post-Odyssey with the 1-click launch-all. Now, the magic and instant teleportation of probes not only removes any responsibility from a careless scanner, it is totally unrealistic in a game with consequences and immersion.
|
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
539
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:12:00 -
[128] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:If you any of you feel that changes are bad in some way please hit me up with eve mail with reasons and how would you like this or that mechanic to be implemented and I will make sure the information is available to CCP in constructive manner. C'mon Chitsa, I know that Eve players are illiterate math challenged morons that need color bars instead of numbers but devs should be able to read what people are pointing out as bad moves at least in this thread. But take a look where dev's badge is here and it will be clear that they don't care about anybody's but their own point of view. It started when CCP Betik saw something in metrics that justified eviscerating lowsec pvp with removal of static DEDs, with Odyssey it seems those mythical metrics show much more about how people play Eve and apparently all devs are looking at them. My job as CSM is to make sure player feedback is listened to. We are player representatives and I will try my best to do my job. Antagonizing CCP will not fix issues we players want to get fixed. What is needed is constructive feedback with respect, CCP have proved in the past that constructive feedback does absolutely nothing. Most of the things they have planned in the past have eventually been changed because of the sh*tstorm that the change created, not because of us been constructive.
I would disagree but I think we are going off topic here. If you can post about it in appropriate thread or mail me and we can talk about it.
CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
|
Lirinas
B.C.C.O.F Investments
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:12:00 -
[129] - Quote
The impression I'm getting, with the lack of any insightful Dev comments is that we're getting these changes whether we like them or not.
I do hope you can get their attention Chitsa, and make them aware of the general dissatisfaction we have for these ideas. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2983
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:16:00 -
[130] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:My job as CSM is to make sure player feedback is listened to. We are player representatives and I will try my best to do my job.
Antagonizing CCP will not fix issues we players want to get fixed. What is needed is constructive feedback That's very nice of you and I don't say you shouldn't do that. But you have to admit there are some disturbances in the force on line what was promised, what feedback we are asked for and what is delivered. I have an impression that only dev who actually listened to feedback in his threads and reacted on what really was pointed out as bad move is CCP Rise and his BS tiercide stickies in F&I.
There are massive differences in how devs and teams react to feedback. I find most of them very responsive, the teams handling the Launcher and Scanner development do not represent CCP majority in this aspect.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
|
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
539
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:16:00 -
[131] - Quote
Lirinas wrote:The impression I'm getting, with the lack of any insightful Dev comments is that we're getting these changes whether we like them or not.
I do hope you can get their attention Chitsa, and make them aware of the general dissatisfaction we have for these ideas.
As I mentioned I will do my best. The more feedback I gather through various information mediums the better.
So if you do not like something or like something in these changes please post your ideas here or mail me. Being constructive would help my job a lot. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
|
Vacille
Vac Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:17:00 -
[132] - Quote
I understand CCP wanting to lower the barrier of entry to exploration and I actually thought they had done that in Apocrypha, but don't they relies that as you continue to dilute the entry knowledge of certain professions you also lower the overall enjoyment and self-gratification a player acquires from getting into that profession.
I joined in 07 and took up probing not long after and that was of course with the old probing system and that was as far as you could get from a user friendly system but that was exactly why I loved it, they're weren't any tutorials to read in game, if you wanted to learn it you'd have to use some initiative and actually go and do some trial and error or search and learn from other people. It was a super niche skill for exactly them reasons, it was an actual profession in game that took a lot of time to master. I understand it needed to change for the inclusion of WH and it was super dumbed down for it, so why exactly is it being even more dumbed down again?
Just to add, this is NOT an exploration expansion unless there is some huge feature you've yet to announce, this is more of a Crucible type expansion for exploration related things. Apocrypha was an exploration expansion. They're nothing new to explore coming with Odyssey. |
Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
308
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:24:00 -
[133] - Quote
I want to scan wrecks please, been finding abandonded faction wrecks on dscan on some systems when people run away, that I would love to scan to get the shinies. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
791
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:27:00 -
[134] - Quote
Roime wrote:There are massive differences in how devs and teams react to feedback. I find most of them very responsive, the teams handling the Launcher and Scanner development do not represent CCP majority in this aspect.
Yeah but launcher derp preventing huge amount of people from logging in and those magical aspects of how probes behave are few orders of magnitude apart. Here we are pointing out how changes are cutting on consequences side of players mistakes rather than on probes not working at all which would be an equivalent of launcher initial fiasco.
I still hope that all this is - as previous poster wrote - just Crucible of exploration system, hard changes needed to move all universe forward and next expansion will be built upon those changes and full of ossum they promised. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Equimanthorn
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:32:00 -
[135] - Quote
I have been scanning since scanning was an option in EVE. Mara hit the nail on the head. Please quit changing this system. Not everyone is supposed to do everything in EvE. There are tonnes of crap I suck at in this game and that's just the way it is, but I am great at scanning. I was great at the old system and the system before that.
Christ I'll adapt but EvE is interesting because it is hard.
Mara Rinn wrote:Deep Space Probes were very useful for filtering out signatures that we weren't interested in paying further attention to. Most of the functionality of DSP is now lost: the system scanner display only shows the presence of "stuff", the signal strength having been removed from that display. The DSP was previously useful for saving time, and was in itself a decent reason to train Astrometrics 5 (the other very good reason being that more probes in space means better quality probing, faster pinpointing, and bragging rights).
The automatic recall of probes means that there is less chance of people being stranded in unknown space and having to find their way out by contacting locals, asking for help on the forums, or suiciding their way home. You are actively removing consequences. Sure, you have lots of new players complaining that the consequences are too severe: this is a reflection on their unreadiness to face loss, rather than loss in the game being a bad thing.
So with each little hand-holding exercise you undertake, you are going to remove the opportunities that players have to learn about loss and failure, meaning that their first PvP loss is going to be all the more traumatic.
EVE needs the little niggles to help people cope and learn to stand on their own two feet and/or establish friendships with people who complement their skill sets: everything from leaving that distribution mission cargo 6 jumps away, losing probes when jumping through wormholes, through to forgetting to insure their combat ship before heading out to look for a fight.
If filtering out signals using a DSP wasn't an intended mechanic, a better solution would be to randomise the signal strength of the signatures present in space, and to review the signal strengths of signatures that explorers have tabulated over the years. If you notice that there are only 12 categories of signature, perhaps that's an indication that you need to smear the possible signature strengths over a larger potential signal strength range.
Deep Space Probes were also useful for quickly narrowing down groups of signatures in very large systems (anything larger than 30AU radius). This functionality is partially replaced by the system scanner overview, so I'll hold my judgement.
Ultimately though, I feel your attempts to "simplify" content and make it "more accessible" are going to end up dumbing the game down, removing the consequences of failure, and turning EVE Online into "WoW in space."
|
Carol Krabit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:33:00 -
[136] - Quote
Yet another change to steer away from the harsh uniqueness into the mirage of a demographic that is not appealed by complexity. Other games got it covered, CCP. Let it go. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2983
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:33:00 -
[137] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Roime wrote:There are massive differences in how devs and teams react to feedback. I find most of them very responsive, the teams handling the Launcher and Scanner development do not represent CCP majority in this aspect. Yeah but launcher derp preventing huge amount of people from logging in and those magical aspects of how probes behave are few orders of magnitude apart. Here we are pointing out how changes are cutting on consequences side of players mistakes rather than on probes not working at all which would be an equivalent of launcher initial fiasco. I still hope that all this is - as previous poster wrote - just Crucible of exploration system, hard changes needed to move all universe forward and next expansion will be built upon those changes and full of ossum they promised.
Well we haven't seen the new scanner on TQ yet :D
I do share your optimism about the future, tho. Irrational, I know.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
791
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:37:00 -
[138] - Quote
Roime wrote:I do share your optimism about the future, tho. Irrational, I know.
I definitely share that dream you have in your sig :)
Soon, my precious, soon... I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:43:00 -
[139] - Quote
yeah I was excited when I first heard they were going to work on exploration. So many things they could do. And still, somehow, not one feature in this list excites me. That truly takes talent.
Allocate resources to POS improvement |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
302
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:50:00 -
[140] - Quote
in before the Threadnaught - because, let's face it, some of those changes are just terrible. |
|
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services Existential Anxiety
191
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:56:00 -
[141] - Quote
Automatically recalling probes? Can we toggle this off? There are applications for dropping probes in a system, leaving, coming back and reconnecting intentionally that I'd like to not lose please. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:58:00 -
[142] - Quote
Carol Krabit wrote:Yet another change to steer away from the harsh uniqueness into the mirage of a demographic that is not appealed by complexity. Other games got it covered, CCP. Let it go. The real problem with catering to the casual crowd--and that's not to say that the casual crowd shouldn't be welcomed in Eve--is that casual players just don't stick around for long with any game.
Unfortunately, there will be consequences if CCP begins to cater to this crowd. Sure, there will be a short term bump for the casual playerbase in Eve, but they'll move on. Casual players by definition don't invest the time and effort to play games, much less to master them. In the end, the only thing that'll have resulted from changing the game to attract casuals is that casual players will have moved on as they were going to anyway and hardcore players will be turned off by the dumbing down of their game, causing them to likely move on as well.
I'm not writing a doom-and-gloom post to be dramatic. I'm merely pointing out that other games--MMOs--who statistically have catered to a casual playerbase to draw in more players (WoW, for example), have consistently gotten burned by the casuals moving on to other games and the hardcore being left unfulfilled and moving on as well.
What hurts new players from talking to other players in local about scanning tips? What harm is there for us to direct new players to Corps that welcome newbies and show them the ropes? All that does is build strong relationships in game, and in return, make it more fun and engaging. Eve is a social game. The fact that it's difficult spurs conversation and builds friendships.
|
Acks
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:58:00 -
[143] - Quote
Equimanthorn wrote:I have been scanning since scanning was an option in EVE. Mara hit the nail on the head. Please quit changing this system. Not everyone is supposed to do everything in EvE. There are tonnes of crap I suck at in this game and that's just the way it is, but I am great at scanning. I was great at the old system and the system before that. Christ I'll adapt but EvE is interesting because it is hard. Mara Rinn wrote:Deep Space Probes were very useful for filtering out signatures that we weren't interested in paying further attention to. Most of the functionality of DSP is now lost: the system scanner display only shows the presence of "stuff", the signal strength having been removed from that display. The DSP was previously useful for saving time, and was in itself a decent reason to train Astrometrics 5 (the other very good reason being that more probes in space means better quality probing, faster pinpointing, and bragging rights).
The automatic recall of probes means that there is less chance of people being stranded in unknown space and having to find their way out by contacting locals, asking for help on the forums, or suiciding their way home. You are actively removing consequences. Sure, you have lots of new players complaining that the consequences are too severe: this is a reflection on their unreadiness to face loss, rather than loss in the game being a bad thing.
So with each little hand-holding exercise you undertake, you are going to remove the opportunities that players have to learn about loss and failure, meaning that their first PvP loss is going to be all the more traumatic.
EVE needs the little niggles to help people cope and learn to stand on their own two feet and/or establish friendships with people who complement their skill sets: everything from leaving that distribution mission cargo 6 jumps away, losing probes when jumping through wormholes, through to forgetting to insure their combat ship before heading out to look for a fight.
If filtering out signals using a DSP wasn't an intended mechanic, a better solution would be to randomise the signal strength of the signatures present in space, and to review the signal strengths of signatures that explorers have tabulated over the years. If you notice that there are only 12 categories of signature, perhaps that's an indication that you need to smear the possible signature strengths over a larger potential signal strength range.
Deep Space Probes were also useful for quickly narrowing down groups of signatures in very large systems (anything larger than 30AU radius). This functionality is partially replaced by the system scanner overview, so I'll hold my judgement.
Ultimately though, I feel your attempts to "simplify" content and make it "more accessible" are going to end up dumbing the game down, removing the consequences of failure, and turning EVE Online into "WoW in space."
This ^^^^ A thousand times this. Stop shaving all the corners off everything to make it NUB SAFEGäó. Other than climbing into a Titan, there are very few advantages to being a truly grizzled, bitter old vet. Every patch / "expansion" you Nerf the ever living hell out of EVE to make it safe for all the troglodyte Xbox button mashers out there with 5 min attention spans.
You come out with these "focus themes" like "Exploration". You have all these pie in the sky perfect world ideas, and charge down the road. In that process great ideas get worn down to good ideas that get worn down to meh ideas. Changes are made to the existing system to facilitate the New ShinyGäó. inevitably you run out of time or resources and tie off your work. There is always the intention to come back after the current release and expand / expound on the stuff that was not finsihed or fully implemented as intended. The reality though is that the next release will have a different theme and todays New ShinyGäó is forgotten or abandoned for the sake of the next New ShinyGäó.
- YOU NEED TO DEVELOP IDEAS.
- GET FEEDBACK.
- LISTEN TO FEEDBACK.
- MAKE A PROTOTYPE ON YOUR TEST SERVER.
- GET FEEDBACK.
- LISTEN TO FEEDBACK.
- ITERATE
- REPEAT 5-7 UNTIL IT IS RIGHT
- RELEASE A FINISHED, FULLY DEVELOPED, FULLY TESTED, PLAYER REQUESTED, PLAYER APPROVED FEATURE THAT DOES NOT NERF EVE INTO A COMA
If you take nothing else away from this post please just take these two things: GET FEEDBACK. LISTEN TO FEEDBACk |
Steijn
Quay Industries CAStabouts
305
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:59:00 -
[144] - Quote
Komen wrote:Automatically recalling probes? Can we toggle this off? There are applications for dropping probes in a system, leaving, coming back and reconnecting intentionally that I'd like to not lose please.
Thats what happens when people who dont play the game are left to change things. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
791
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 20:59:00 -
[145] - Quote
Heh, today I saw response from Greyscale posted somewhere, maybe at Testing subforum - that they want to limit or not extend number of options from client so I wouldn't count on anything being customizable :) I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Lirinas
B.C.C.O.F Investments
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 21:08:00 -
[146] - Quote
Back on Page 5, post #92 I have a more-detailed list of my feelings with the proposed changes. The only thing I didn't list there was that I also don't like the idea of auto-returning of probes. Even I would occasionally will leave probes out after jumping/docking to mark a place on the map.
I was hoping to see the system expanded, not overly simplified. I remember reading some good ideas on the old forums shortly after Apocrypha was released. Sadly I can't find that old link, and the only idea I remember was a disposable type of proximity probe).
Chitsa Jason wrote:Lirinas wrote:The impression I'm getting, with the lack of any insightful Dev comments is that we're getting these changes whether we like them or not.
I do hope you can get their attention Chitsa, and make them aware of the general dissatisfaction we have for these ideas. As I mentioned I will do my best. The more feedback I gather through various information mediums the better. So if you do not like something or like something in these changes please post your ideas here or mail me. Being constructive would help my job a lot.
|
Enthropic
Enthropic Enterprises
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 21:30:00 -
[147] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Dumbing down the game. Not cool.
|
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 21:33:00 -
[148] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:As I mentioned I will do my best. The more feedback I gather through various information mediums the better.
So if you do not like something or like something in these changes please post your ideas here or mail me. Being constructive would help my job a lot.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=233600
This thread is 20 days old. It is 69 pages. Is that not enough feedback for you? Why do we have to repost our criticism again in this thread? Unless of course you didn't read that thread completely, or never noticed it, or heard about these changes just now. In which case, wtf are you doing on the CSM! |
Patrick Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 21:34:00 -
[149] - Quote
no auto recall, it makes no sense for probes that are out of time to return to your cargo hold, it makes even less sense that the auto recall wouldn't hold you up on gates and holes, cause that is a thing that would make sense. let us launch probes one at a time, and let them expire, otherwise no-one will buy probes anymore, and there goes sisters missions. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3503
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 21:43:00 -
[150] - Quote
As far as auto-returning probes leading to fewer sales: I wonder how many probes are lost by timeouts & left-behinds versus the probe-carrying ship being blown up?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
|
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 21:50:00 -
[151] - Quote
Zorok wrote:Roime wrote:There's so much **** in these changes that the few good usability improvements don't even feel nice.
Disappointing tbh.
I hear ya man.... This is the first time I have considered truly giving up Eve...The monocle-gate scandal is nothing compared to their haphazard approach to these game-breaking changes they are making. I don't understand why they are trying to ruin certain aspects of the game...I agree that they should remove the regular asteroid belts and make them anomalies since that will take a bite out of botters but for them to simply make grav sites also anomalies makes no sense. I'm very disappointed with you CCP. Gravimetric (Ore) Sites and the others (Radar/Magnetometric/Ladar) should never become accessible without probes. Why did I train probes in the first place? Gravimetric cosmic signatures are one of the few relatively safe areas for nul mining. After the patch, what will probes be able to find that d-scan won't? From the sounds of it, all the probe skills should be reimbursed.
Probes are a poor choice for nerf CCP. While you are at it, nerf sanctums down to let frigates make 50 mil isk per tick, remove training requirements for doing Planetary Interaction or just remove PI and moon goo from game altogether, add a cloaking sensor probe for finding cloaked ships, and make the cloaked ships show up on scanner once they have been in system for 20 minutes. Add all that to Odyssey too.
Ya know... if you want to make it easier for pvp/ships blown up, reduce the maximum corp/alliance members. That would force a lot of people out of current alliances/corps to make new corps/alliances, and split up the pie into moar pieces. AFAIK, accessibility to nul desirable space is only enforceable with huge alliances with large numbers of corporations and/or blue alliances. Limit the size of corp/alliance members, limit the number of blue alliances, and you force people to pick sides.
Just thinking out loud, but since CCP seems to be doing the same thing and not really thinking things through I thought I would do the same. |
Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 21:54:00 -
[152] - Quote
The lure of exploration got me interested in playing EVE after the Apocrypha expansion was released ~4 years ago. I trained the skills on and off for a couple of years, eventually reaching the Holy Grail of Astrometrics 5 when I could finally use 8 probes and the Deep Space Probes. Along the way I explored wormholes that made me lots of ISK, and found my services valuable to PVPers who needed ships scanned down or POSes found and scouted.
The upcoming changes in Odyssey dumb down exploration to the level where a child can do it, and there is very little to be gained by improving your skills or technique. If everyone can launch 8 probes on Day 1 of their EVE life, why have 8 at all? Why not just 1 probe? And if you can no longer forget your probes and leave them behind, or forget to recall them before they expire... why have probes at all? Why not make it a ship built-in function? Use the new modules to make scanning easier and get rid of the Probe Launcher completely.
Do. Not. Want. But going to get this sh*t sammich rammed down my throat anyway. Another solution in search of a problem. |
Athena Maldoran
Tok'Ra. State Section 9
2270
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 22:16:00 -
[153] - Quote
Oddyssey will be awsome, can't wait for launch. I've been on the testserver and doing some practising. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2984
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 22:17:00 -
[154] - Quote
Ok, turns out Paradox failed to highlight the best damn feature of the new scanner, and hid the gem inside this controversial chapter and left out the juicy details:
Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space!
The system remembers your last probe setup actually means that the system remembers the last used setup no matter how you recall them. Essentially providing the same functionality as custom presets.
One-click cube ftw, probably the top request got fullfilled!
The auto-recall is still pure crap
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 22:28:00 -
[155] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: ... bragging rights... actively removing consequences Many people don't really understand what "dumb down" means, but this is EXACTLY what it means! Remove the incentive to get better while at the same time making it so even an idiot can't screw it up.
The fabled EVE learning curve (cliff) no longer applies to probe scanning. It's now a grassy plain with nothing but straightaways and flat terrain as far as the eye can see. Mission accomplished? Eliminate the learning "cliff" completely? Is that where we're headed? |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
77
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 22:35:00 -
[156] - Quote
Roime wrote:Ok, turns out Paradox failed to highlight the best damn feature of the new scanner, and hid the gem inside this controversial chapter and left out the juicy details: Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space! The system remembers your last probe setup actually means that the system remembers the last used setup no matter how you recall them. Essentially providing the same functionality as custom presets. One-click cube ftw, probably the top request got fullfilled! The auto-recall is still pure crap
So i can save my pattern by setting it up and then always launching by clicking on the mod only, all well and good.
BUT, if for some reason I decide to try and launch my probes with one of the given default patterns and start probing, now my custom pattern is blown away. it needs to be take a step further so that the custom pattern is static and saved somehow. |
Alex Logan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 22:42:00 -
[157] - Quote
So how the h... Are we supposed to fit the new modules on covops ships? These have a limited slot layout and we cant possibly dedicate slots towards additional scanning modules. Nanos and od's cant be removed from covops. |
Tion Barton
Order of the Phoenix Gentlemen's Agreement
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:01:00 -
[158] - Quote
Congratulations on altering a feature set in a way that can bring the community together.
Hating all of your ideas and changes is probably the one thing that most Eve players can agree on. I guess that is what happens when you don't care what your customer base wants.
You made a good run of giving lip service to caring about what we want, but I guess you can't be assed to even pretend now. |
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:02:00 -
[159] - Quote
updating this this from: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2935774#post2935774
Removing grav sites in hi-sec removes the incentive for miners to expend their skills into Exploration-¦. Also removes the compromise that gankers need either a scan ship in their gang or fitted probe launcher. (and necessary skills)
I would note that grav sites are highly competed for in hi-sec as they are. These are easily located following downtime. Will there be a corresponding change here? A common practice for many hi-sec mining crews is to remove the high end ores and leave remaining low-end ores. The site does not de-spawn to generate anew elsewhere. Would it not be possible to have the site timeout when there no activity within after an hour or so?
And since it will be asked anyway. Removing grav sites from probing, will there lead the option for skill re-allocation from astrometric investment?
-¦ making something easier is not an incentive
Removing one quarter of the functionality with probes (ie gravs) is not retaining "the whole" that you mention in your blog.
I guess it's also time to dump Sister LP and probes, since their market value is about plummet. |
Balint Vazsonyi
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:10:00 -
[160] - Quote
What will be required to scan down ships that were 'unscannable' (ish).
Previously, I believe any sensor strength/sig radius < 1.08 required max skills and implants to scan down.
Will this still be the case? If not, is there a ratio where max skills/modules/implants will be required?
Overall I'm all aboard making the game better for new players, I understand that without them we all lose. Experienced players will figure out how to win regardless. |
|
Mstr Wu
Ice Consortium
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:11:00 -
[161] - Quote
Where can I go tell Team Five-0 how stupid it is to put grav sites in anoms instead of putting the new ice belts into sigs?
You're trying to actually SHOWCASE your new idiot-proof scanning system, why not, I don't know, generate a skillpoint sink and make more people actually scan.
Also, wtf, seriously. So now any ******* with with a couple of weeks training time can start cloaky camping grav sites without even being bothered to go through the trouble of scanning it down?
Do you guys actually play this game or do you just read about it? |
kyofu
Praetorian Black Guard Frater Adhuc Excessum
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:13:00 -
[162] - Quote
*Sigh*
The response we got in the feedback thread in Test was that some of our concerns would be addressed in this blog. This Blog is depressing, as it seems the many many valid concerns people voiced were mostly ignored and are now just being repeated here.
Issues with this "exploration" expansion (I am tempted to call it a nerf) are as follows, in no particular order:
1) Auto-recalling probes. No for so many reasons including: Ruining our suspended disbelief, keeping consequences for stupidity/inattention, economy, legitimate reasons to leave probes out.
2) Loot pinatas. My wrists hate them, they are psychologically discouraging, the interface is poorly designed for the mechanic. We are used to RNGs, we have a long standing love hate relationship. Leave the dynamic invisible so we can continue cursing at / praying to our RNG god instead of watching our shiny loot dissapear before our eyes.
3) Changing grav sites to anomolies. The multiple reasons have all been listed many times over, and it's just another ill-conceived change. Just seems like a backwards change, and it's especially depressing because the ice belts being anoms seems like a lost opportunity to increase the importance of exploration. Making them sigs would have been a very interesting change.
4) Blocking Tengus out of 4/10s. While I do not disagree with the intent behind this change, it is a faulty approach. First off 4/10s are in lowsec, Tengus should not be locked out of lowsec sites. Second, it makes no sense to block T3s but to allow a plethora of much larger ships into the same site. Third, it will not fix the problem I assume you are trying to address in hisec as people will simply switch to ships that are similarly capable. The removal of DSPs removes the necessity of an expanded probe launcher so Tengus have already lost one of their primary advantages for this application making this transition even easier.
5) DSPs, but it has already been made quite obvious that no action or arguement from your player base will under any circumstances affect your resolve to remove them.
You know what a great approach would have been?
If you want to remove DSP filtering, just either normalize or randomize all signature strengths (Which you seem to have done anyway). WH residents still would have freaked out at you, but if you normalize them you could leave WH sigs as is and everyone is happy.
If you want to stop Tengu's from farming 4/10s in hisec, remove 4/10s from hisec. Removing DSP filtering also would have affected this.
I think the worst part though is just the dissapinted feeling after waiting so long for exploration to get new content. (Most) explorers were looking for some minor interface tweaks and a new feature or two and everyone would have been overjoyed.I believe exploration is the system/profession with the most untapped potential in eve, but instead of adding content, mixing up the difficulty of sites, mixing up the distribution of sites or acting on any of the many many great ideas that have been proposed and discussed. Instead we get a system revamp that few if any wanted, and are left to feel we were better off if everything was just left alone.
That is a very depressing thought, as it feels as though there is nothing to look forward to in exploration. |
Mstr Wu
Ice Consortium
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:13:00 -
[163] - Quote
GetSirrus wrote:updating this this from: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2935774#post2935774Removing grav sites in hi-sec removes the incentive for miners to expend their skills into Exploration-¦. Also removes the compromise that gankers need either a scan ship in their gang or fitted probe launcher. (and necessary skills) I would note that grav sites are highly competed for in hi-sec as they are. These are easily located following downtime. Will there be a corresponding change here? A common practice for many hi-sec mining crews is to remove the high end ores and leave remaining low-end ores. The site does not de-spawn to generate anew elsewhere. Would it not be possible to have the site timeout when there no activity within after an hour or so? And since it will be asked anyway. Removing grav sites from probing, will there lead the option for skill re-allocation from astrometric investment? -¦ making something easier is not an incentive Removing one quarter of the functionality with probes (ie gravs) is not retaining "the whole" that you mention in your blog. I guess it's also time to dump Sister LP and probes, since their market value is about plummet.
Your questions and insight are predicated on the false assumption that the dev teams involved with these changes actually care what you think or want. |
Vakasho Umi Kenshar
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:16:00 -
[164] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:So i can save my pattern by setting it up and then always launching by clicking on the mod only, all well and good.
BUT, if for some reason I decide to try and launch my probes with one of the given default patterns and start probing, now my custom pattern is blown away. it needs to be take a step further so that the custom pattern is static and saved somehow.
As it is currently on Sisi: it retains your pattern only after a session change (and probably expiration, but I haven't tested this one). If you just recall your probes while staying in system, and launch them again, your configuration is lost. It works if you manually recall AND jump/dock though, so it looks like it's still being worked on.
But at least, now, activating the launcher after a manual recall of the probes will drop them one on top of another, as it currently works on TQ, if none of the preset formations has been selected prior to that. I don't know if this will stay like this however. |
Mstr Wu
Ice Consortium
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:17:00 -
[165] - Quote
kyofu wrote:I think the worst part though is just the dissapinted feeling after waiting so long for exploration to get new content. (Most) explorers were looking for some minor interface tweaks and a new feature or two and everyone would have been overjoyed.I believe exploration is the system/profession with the most untapped potential in eve, but instead of adding content, mixing up the difficulty of sites, mixing up the distribution of sites or acting on any of the many many great ideas that have been proposed and discussed. Instead we get a system revamp that few if any wanted, and are left to feel we were better off if everything was just left alone.
That is a very depressing thought, as it feels as though there is nothing to look forward to in exploration.
All this expansion has done for me is made me want them to finish INCARNA so they stop ******* with things that do not need to be ****** with, just for the sake of "HEY WE UPDATED THIS JUST LIKE YOU WANTED".
Because really, nobody wants these changes.
|
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
339
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:18:00 -
[166] - Quote
Probes getting in the cargo automatically if jumping, docking or expiring sucks tbh. It is dumbing down EVE. The function of DSP was not replaced by anything. Why? BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Cup1dStunt
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:26:00 -
[167] - Quote
Roime wrote:St Mio wrote:Exploration expansion \o/ Where?
The expansion where former explorers get to explore other parts of the game (or other games)
|
Mstr Wu
Ice Consortium
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:28:00 -
[168] - Quote
Since the developers obviously don't care perhaps we can just flood @HilmarVeigar on twitter. |
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
112
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:37:00 -
[169] - Quote
The auto recall of probes is a bad idea and needs to removed .
1. breaks current combat probing strategies used to probe multiple systems.
2. is against the underlying principals of the eve economy.
i know you guys are trying to make it more accessible but at least give those who use probing in a more advanced fashion, a option to turn off auto recall .
Also deep space probes need to be discussed to many good points have been brought up in light of their removal .
at the very least consider including their functionality in some form, into the new system .
And last , please let us scan down wrecks !!
|
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:37:00 -
[170] - Quote
Mstr Wu wrote:All this expansion has done for me is made me want them to finish INCARNA so they stop ******* with things that do not need to be ****** with, just for the sake of "HEY WE UPDATED THIS JUST LIKE YOU WANTED".
Because really, nobody wants these changes.
Agreed, move all the devs on Incarna and as far away from eve mechanics as possible. At least that way if they screw up we won't have to cry ourselves to sleep. |
|
Mstr Wu
Ice Consortium
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:45:00 -
[171] - Quote
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun wrote:Mstr Wu wrote:All this expansion has done for me is made me want them to finish INCARNA so they stop ******* with things that do not need to be ****** with, just for the sake of "HEY WE UPDATED THIS JUST LIKE YOU WANTED".
Because really, nobody wants these changes.
Agreed, move all the devs on Incarna and as far away from eve mechanics as possible. At least that way when they screw up we won't have to cry ourselves to sleep.
fixed. |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
165
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 23:55:00 -
[172] - Quote
IceGuerilla wrote:Easy mode: engaged
I'll just leave this herre...
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3umbmc/
I'm rather dissapointed by the gutting of the scanning profession. It is currently something that anyone can do, most people can do well, and few people excel in.
I.....do well when I scan.
Yes, it's a mind-numbing task, but so is mining, grinding missions, or gate camping for 5 hours and getting 4 activations in that time.
Don't really have much to add to this discussion. Just the Picard gif
Quote: Probes, even the faction ones, are like T1 laser crystals. They never ever run out. This is surely an oversight?
To fix this I propose you make probes single use by removing the recall button. This will mean you will need to carry a supply of probes on all exploration expeditions.
I personally haven't needed to buy or make any probes for about 3 years.
Oooh....I support this feature and/or service from page 4. |
Dino Boff
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 00:13:00 -
[173] - Quote
Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? |
Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew
242
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 00:17:00 -
[174] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Auto probe recall is not hand holding, its part of the war on clicks.
They just created a mini game that requires dozens upon dozens of clicks.
They next created canisters that must be chased by clicking and picked up by clicking.
I am not sure what war you think they have entered. Tilde soaked words from something kinda like a pirate. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
298
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 00:20:00 -
[175] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and let some a lot of edgecases stay.
Please people, keep it constructive, on topic and above all civil!
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
22. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
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CCP Orion
C C P C C P Alliance
123
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 00:21:00 -
[176] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged.
Senior Programmer - Team Pony Express EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Nar Tha
Neural-Boost.com
119
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:06:00 -
[177] - Quote
I don't know if it's the right place to ask this but maybe you can answer it anyways.
Are there still gas sites with hacking containers in them? (the pirate facility sites) |
Belshazzar Babylon
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:10:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP what are you doing?????? Why not just put Grav sites on the overview now. If someone can't be bothered to scan a site why should they be able to get the better ore? You are going to completely kill mining in WH's and Low Sec. How can a couple of miners in a WH with no local possibly catch a cloaky coming in that can warp right to them?
Did nobody think about this or did CCP think miners should not have a chance? |
Sarmatiko
1157
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:18:00 -
[179] - Quote
For Odyssey CCP tweaked some exploration modules such as Purloined Sansha Codebreaker, making it most effective codebreaker in the game.
Is there any plans to make Echelon actually flyable by adding at least 1 utility high slot for probe launcher or turning it into T1 exploration frigate? -¥ |
Dominatus01
State War Academy Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:18:00 -
[180] - Quote
A lot of players, myself included, have tested out this new system on the Test server and also provided extensive feedback. The feedback thread on the scanning system was quite immense.
Personally, I can only speak for myself, when I say that I am hugely disappointed that the vast majority of that feedback seems to have been completely ignored.
Again, my own personal opinion, having used both scanning systems is that the "new Odyssey" system seems to more of an original prototype varsion, and the "current" DSP method seems to be more like a refined "updated"version.
The Odyssey system has been dumbed down to such an extent that it no longer makes exploring the fun passtime that it is now. It has become something that involves little to no challenge, and therefore it becomes very boring very quickly. This type of sentiment and the reasoning behind it was voiced and explained many many times in the SiSi feedback thread, yet it seems to have been ignored.
Personally, I'm at a little bit of a loss as to why there was any testing & feedback in the first place now. Not enough time was allocated for player feedback to be taken into consideration and actioned, prior to Odyssey launch, so why engage in that activity?
I think that the team behind these changes have lost sight of one important fact, and that is why people partake in Exploration in the first place. It's much the same as many other activities in EvE, we indulge in them because of the challenge / risk / reward. Principle amongst those reasons, I feel, is the challenge. The new scanning system takes away the challenge. By attempting to fix something that wasn't broken, I feel that they have in actual fact largely removed Exploration as a viable passtime from the game itself. There's no real challenge or learning curve to this new system. There's no eagerly waiting to train up skills to make it more efficient.
Above all else, there's no need to practice scanning for hours on end to become better at it and get the resultant feeling of exhilaration and joy as you become faster at scanning things down.
There may well be some "back-slapping" going on in offices somewhere at the moment at a job well done, but I fear that feeling may well turn to egg on faces once this goes live. I predict a huge downturn in the amount of people scanning and enjoying exploration from the current levels after this new system has been live a few months. |
|
Galphii
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
139
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:21:00 -
[181] - Quote
Just fyi, turning ore sites into anomalies makes them worse, not better. Highsec sites will be swarmed over by the huge numbers of miners (I'd hardly call that exploration) lowsec and w-space sites will be giant 'target me' signs, and in nullsec they'll be 'just another belt' with nothing in there not already available in regular belts (except in shallow nullsec - which is just as bad as lowsec).
Bad change. X |
Zane Ziebold
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:23:00 -
[182] - Quote
Quote: As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
I still want to know why you are doing this it seams my post on the test server did not get an answer. I still think this is going to hurt more than it helps. PLEASE change this back to the way it was, or at least tell us why this is happening. If scanning is going to be easier then they should be able to find then. |
Acks
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:24:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP Orion wrote:Dino Boff wrote:Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged.
I love how devs will almost exclusively respond to the happy fluffy "atta boy" comments and not respond to any of the myriad of others. They will respond to questions that do not express an opinion for or against. But if you are clearly in the against camp... don't hold your breath waiting for a response.
We are on page 9 and at least half of these posts address the same 3-4 issues / concerns. Do they respond to any of these or god forbid add an original response saying "We see 147 people up to this point have expressed concern about X. Here are our thoughts / explanations / plans". No.
If it is not a happy fluffy CCP is the greatest... or at a minimum a carefully neutral question, you are unlikely to get a response.
WTF do we even bother.... |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
78
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:30:00 -
[184] - Quote
Why do you fix things that are not broken?
Holding shift allows us to move all the probes at once, and hitting alt allows them to move them closer together. Why are we changing something that already works? |
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
242
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 01:40:00 -
[185] - Quote
Lorna Sicling wrote:Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them. So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore.
On the plus side, as a nullsec miner you don't need to scan down the sites and then reship to a barge or exhumer. And back again after the current set is depleted.
And.. aren't you docking up when you see Neuts in system on Local or your corp/alliance Intel channel? |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
78
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 02:01:00 -
[186] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Lorna Sicling wrote:Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them. So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore. On the plus side, as a nullsec miner you don't need to scan down the sites and then reship to a barge or exhumer. And back again after the current set is depleted. And.. aren't you docking up when you see Neuts in system on Local or your corp/alliance Intel channel?
Except in WH space we dont have the luxory of Local Chat alerting us when there is an intruder. We'll just get killed right away.
So much for paying attention to that minor detail CCP.
|
Kuetlzelcoatl
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 02:10:00 -
[187] - Quote
I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes. Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."
Change, change is good. The best Eve players are the ones who adapt to change the quickest. Just as in life.
|
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
951
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 02:40:00 -
[188] - Quote
When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.
Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.
But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.
So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE? Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Acks
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 02:57:00 -
[189] - Quote
Ok ...
Because I am just that fed up and becasue everyone who plays eve loves numbers, I went through and tabulated the sentiment / tone from the first 180 posts of this thread. I realize this is somewhat subjective. I rated posts in three categories:
- Positive feedback on these specific changes
- Negative feedback on these specific changes
- Neutral feedback / questions on these specific changes or off topic comments / questions
A total of 100 points were allocated to each post. Clearly negative / positive responses got 100% respectively. Mixed responses got a % for good, bad, neutral based on the points made. Snarky comments got a mixed negative / neutral value based on intensity and topics covered.
Finally of the first 180 posts, 11 were Dev, CSM, or ISD responses which I filtered out. This means that there were a total of 16,900 total points available. Rounding results to the nearest % we get the following:
- Good = 7%
- Bad = 51%
- Neutral / Off Topic= 42%
Draw your own conclusions.
Oh and before the CCP fanboys cry "Only angry people respond", There have been times where CCP does stuff we actually want and like that is well thought out. Those threads are almost exclusively positive. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
249
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 03:26:00 -
[190] - Quote
Ehh....... I was truly excited about the coming changes, but I feel like you went too far. It seems to me that in an effort of making scanning and exploration more "accessible" (nothing wrong with that) you overshot a bit and made it way too easy. Where's the challenge of exploration and scanning? Seems to me that it will become almost as boring as mining and missioning.
Oh well, we'll see when it comes out for real. |
|
Popsikle
Hard Knocks Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 03:28:00 -
[191] - Quote
CCP Orion wrote:Dino Boff wrote:Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged.
So you pick one of the three posts in the 10 pages of comments that like the idea to respond to? How about responding to the rest of us who thing these changes SUCK?
You are killing markets that people are heavily invested into.
You are killing skills that people are heavily invested into.
You are killing wh mining completely..
Just to mention three of the major issues, not to mention having to micro manage how many probes are in our launchers....
But go ahead, respond to the one positive post instead of actually listening to your playbase. Have you guys not learned ANYTHING over the last 10 years?!?!? |
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services Existential Anxiety
195
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 03:56:00 -
[192] - Quote
Popsikle wrote:CCP Orion wrote:Dino Boff wrote:Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged. So you pick one of the three posts in the 10 pages of comments that like the idea to respond to? How about responding to the rest of us who thing these changes SUCK? You are killing markets that people are heavily invested into. You are killing skills that people are heavily invested into. You are killing wh mining completely.. Just to mention three of the major issues, not to mention having to micro manage how many probes are in our launchers.... But go ahead, respond to the one positive post instead of actually listening to your playbase. Have you guys not learned ANYTHING over the last 10 years?!?!? They are heavily invested in believing this shiny new thing is good. They have worked hard, and to a degree I like what I see. I also don't like what I see.
As an example of dumbing down, and how it is NOT crying wolf: Sandbox elements which could result in a failure state (for instance, running out of probes and getting stuck in a wormhole with no way to scan back to known space) are being removed. Part of the danger of Eve is that your own stupidity, ignorance, or inattention can get you stuck in a bad place with bad people doing bad things to you. Automatic recall of probes means this particular instance of failure state is now nigh impossible, unless someone accidentally jettisons all of their probes and loses the jetcan.
CCP, please consider that in a sandbox game, you need to have failure states for activities. It makes succeeding more rewarding. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
644
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 04:09:00 -
[193] - Quote
+1 for the appropriate use of the word "grok".
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Goosius Tal
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 04:26:00 -
[194] - Quote
While having the formation probes thing is kind of handy the whole auto return/reconnect side is a bit far. I remember when WH's first came out that there where many people who took the initiative to scanning out stranded people and helping them return home for a fee...the quick way or long way in different cases but it was a sense of consequence to mess up. With the ability for cov ops to instantly launch all probes at once they will be even closer to impossible to find and kill.
If people say "oh noes" I forgot my probes now I am lost to bad. Let them deal with it by asking for help in chat channels or leaving their ship behind and podding themselves would be really nice for some one who eventually finds a nice new toy. It is the same thing as if they forgot to bookmark their exits, I hope CCP doesn't turn around and have an auto BM feature for WH's because it is to much trouble for players to save it themselves.
I never had a problem with scanning down grav sites using probes. Others have pointed out that it will be a problem for mining security reasons which I agree with. If people are to lazy to use probes then they should miss out on the rewards that probe scanning brings to the true explorers.
The new Hacking and archeology sites look like they will be interesting on the plus side. Please do not dumb down EVE to the point where there is no challenge or sense of accomplishment. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5255
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 05:48:00 -
[195] - Quote
Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes. Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."
Automatically recalling probes whenever docking or jumping isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to launch all probes in the launcher up to a maximum of 8 even if we just wanted to launch one isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to start in one of two preset configurations isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing the initial position of the probes (on the map) at the sun isn't dumbing the game down (and doesn't represent a huge nerf to combat probing)? -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Euthanasia Anneto
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 05:49:00 -
[196] - Quote
I want a new module: XL Secure Trashcan. To throw away all my scanning skills and experience for other fools to use for just being there.
This will be the first time I petition for finding a exit. |
Quinn Corvez
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 05:53:00 -
[197] - Quote
Why would they make it so people don't lose probes anymore? I don't thing waiting for your probes to return or losing them in space was that big of an issue.
|
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
451
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 05:57:00 -
[198] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes. Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."
Automatically recalling probes whenever docking or jumping isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to launch all probes in the launcher up to a maximum of 8 even if we just wanted to launch one isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to start in one of two preset configurations isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing the initial position of the probes (on the map) at the sun isn't dumbing the game down (and doesn't represent a huge nerf to combat probing)?
The barrier for entering gets lower, being good at it still takes the same skill. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2995
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:07:00 -
[199] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote: The barrier for entering gets lower, being good at it still takes the same skill.
Lol no. Barrier for entry remains exactly the same, being good was made easier.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc. Surely You're Joking
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:15:00 -
[200] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:Why would they make it so people don't lose probes anymore? I don't thing waiting for your probes to return or losing them in space was that big of an issue.
LOL never been in W-space huh? Empire, Hi, Lo & Null are NOT all of EvE. A huge risk, and a ton of fun are to be had in holes when either you forget to load a launcher, or screw the pooch and let your probes expire... Adventures in Holes can be a very interesting time for all involved... But, you wouldn't know anything about that now would you? LOL TurAmarth ElRandir HBHI VP & Salvage Operations Director Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/ |
|
AbsoluteHavoc
Hybrids of Steel
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:26:00 -
[201] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Warwick Bentley wrote:In other words, to fix the trivial problem of probe loss by timer expiration required a change that became advertised as a feature. That it affects very useful and non-exploitative probe functionality doesn't seem to be an obstacle. I think the entire idea of recalling probes automatically was to address the loss of probes by people who don't know what they are doing. Those of us who have been long term subscribers are part of a niche of players who like hard games. So EVE now has a population of people who like hard games: all 300 thousand of us who live on the planet. To expand out of this niche, EVE has to cater to people who like the single-shard science fiction universe, but don't like hard games. The next stage of course is to remove probes as items in the game and just have the probe launcher always launch 8 probes. Then there's no need to recall probes to the ship for fear of losing them and stranding the player in unknown space. It's unfair to new players to cause them to feel loss. It's especially unfair to have regions of space which are easily accessible but very easy to get lost in. I wonder how many potential subscribers have been scared off because EVE was such a harsh universe to play in? We need to drop this fascination with EVE being a harsh, cold universe. We need to take better care of new players, and perhaps consider treating them with kid gloves from time to time, and picking up their toys for them when they forget to clean up after themselves.
GTFO |
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc. Surely You're Joking
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:34:00 -
[202] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.
Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.
But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.
So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE?
This, this and THIS! So much win... TurAmarth ElRandir HBHI VP & Salvage Operations Director Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/ |
Simon Severasse
Los Marginales
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 06:46:00 -
[203] - Quote
-+Can we get some information on exact changes made to wormhole space? |
Securis Unus
Public Intoxication Public Indecency
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:03:00 -
[204] - Quote
Please allow us to save our own probe configuration.
Please fix it so the columns Distance, ID, Scan Group, Group, and Type can be adjusted in width instead of scaling with the whole scanner window. |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:04:00 -
[205] - Quote
Keep "Unknown"
It makes finding wormholes much cooler. Though I guess by now technology will have advanced to recognize a trillion ISK industry |
AbsoluteHavoc
Hybrids of Steel
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:12:00 -
[206] - Quote
Athena Maldoran wrote:Oddyssey will be awsome, can't wait for launch. I've been on the testserver and doing some practising.
Think you meant to say practicing. Swirly red lines under a word mean you misspelled it, just letting ya know.
And what are you practicing for ? Even a child can do it. Even the current system isn't very complicated to use it's just a damn mini game that requires minimal intelligence to use and average to perfect/develop a custom technique that works best for you.
Thank you CCP for dumbing down the last bit of PVE ( and even PVP if combat probing is concerned) that required a bit of technique and encouraged you to find your way of doing things. How can you possibly take a system that works so well and has so many subtle nuances and just take a dump on it ? How can you ? Have you consulted a single player while deciding what to change ? As usual, course not.
Leave probes behind ? Now why would anyone ever do that... Be exposed for more/less time in a combat scanning situation based on how many probes you decide to launch ? Risk losing a faction probe launcher when your little pointy frig gets popped cause u wanted to have a bit more scan strength/deploy probes faster ? Have to be fast (if taking a freaking hour can even be called that) or you might lose your probes cause they don't last foreveeeer ? Have reasons to train skills ? No let's just give everybody everything at lvl 1. Could go on and on but you don't give a f&^* so I won't bother. The CSM was there and you didn't even bother to consult em.
Maybe you still can't get this through your heads but CASUAL OR EVEN AVERAGE GAMERS WILL NEVER PLAY EVE ! Doesn't matter how much you simplify things, they won't do it. Stop making everything for everybody EVE's good because it's not about that... A training system that has you wait ? A game that's a lil' bit about having fun and more about commitment, working hard and taking changes to the point where so people take it as seriously as they would matters IRL ? Having to read tutorials ???? ( and then go on to read guides for 50+ hours honestly/get external apps)
I just don't get you guys. Do you not realize most ppl can't be arsed to even read an entire line of tutorial text ? Just go and search "let's play" on Youtube and watch ppl go at it in some random games. Talking for 20 minutes about the subtleties between the Ice Comet that does 150dps for 3 seconds and Ice Blast that does 250 damage upfront and another 40dps for 4 seconds after that but has a half a sec delay. You already have a players base. One of the most committed and long lasting. How about you actually cater to them and continue to slowly expand the game/the playerbase as you have in the past? Hmm ?
Oh and just to end this mostly pointless post that serves no real purpose but to alleviate my frustration here's what is actually broken about probing. It's a bit too fiddly (mainly because it sometimes selects celestials when you're simply trying to move probes about) and the destroy probes button needs to be moved by a few pixels to the right/have an even bigger red ball on it. And if I were to nitpick make the minimum window size a bit smaller. Everything else works fine. F%*@s sake... |
Gwenywell Shumuku
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:15:00 -
[207] - Quote
As many already stated i DISLIKE the "never lose your probes" and "removed DSP's". You are removing consequences and an aditional layer of gameplay (knowing how to use DSPs, and training for them as advanced probing).
It's like only PvEers did this changes and NO PvPer looked at this stuff....(pointing at the CSM....). I can't beleive you didn't see these problems during developement. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
973
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:24:00 -
[208] - Quote
So we already have indestructible cloths, now we get (unwanted) probes that auto-return themselves. What's next you may ask? How about ships that respawn in your hangar after they've exploded?
Looks like the old meme that goons are about to destroy EVE is true after all, one expansion at the time. Good job Soundwave & co. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
451
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:28:00 -
[209] - Quote
Roime wrote:l0rd carlos wrote: The barrier for entering gets lower, being good at it still takes the same skill.
Lol no. Barrier for entry remains exactly the same, being good was made easier. The skill changes + scanning modules + default probing layout makes is easier for a new player to learn how to probe. I would say that this qualifies for a lower barrier.
For specific other things i still want to use my other probe layout. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5108
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:34:00 -
[210] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:So we already have indestructible cloths, now we get (unwanted) probes that auto-return themselves. What's next you may ask? How about ships that respawn in your hangar after they've exploded? Looks like the old meme that goons are about to destroy EVE is true after all, one expansion at the time. Good job Soundwave & co. Infinitely respawning free ships are already in the game and have propably been here since day 1. They even give you a free mineral as a bonus, so surely it is the reason EVE has been slowly dying since lauch. |
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
973
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:34:00 -
[211] - Quote
AbsoluteHavoc wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Warwick Bentley wrote:In other words, to fix the trivial problem of probe loss by timer expiration required a change that became advertised as a feature. That it affects very useful and non-exploitative probe functionality doesn't seem to be an obstacle. I think the entire idea of recalling probes automatically was to address the loss of probes by people who don't know what they are doing. Those of us who have been long term subscribers are part of a niche of players who like hard games. So EVE now has a population of people who like hard games: all 300 thousand of us who live on the planet. To expand out of this niche, EVE has to cater to people who like the single-shard science fiction universe, but don't like hard games. The next stage of course is to remove probes as items in the game and just have the probe launcher always launch 8 probes. Then there's no need to recall probes to the ship for fear of losing them and stranding the player in unknown space. It's unfair to new players to cause them to feel loss. It's especially unfair to have regions of space which are easily accessible but very easy to get lost in. I wonder how many potential subscribers have been scared off because EVE was such a harsh universe to play in? We need to drop this fascination with EVE being a harsh, cold universe. We need to take better care of new players, and perhaps consider treating them with kid gloves from time to time, and picking up their toys for them when they forget to clean up after themselves. GTFO
AbsoluteHavoc, Mara Rinn's post was 102% sarcasm. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
973
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:41:00 -
[212] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:So we already have indestructible cloths, now we get (unwanted) probes that auto-return themselves. What's next you may ask? How about ships that respawn in your hangar after they've exploded? Looks like the old meme that goons are about to destroy EVE is true after all, one expansion at the time. Good job Soundwave & co. Infinitely respawning free ships are already in the game and have propably been here since day 1. They even give you a free mineral as a bonus, so surely it is the reason EVE has been slowly dying since lauch.
Come on, you know what I mean, not rookie ships. /o\
I just cannot get my head around why in a largely player driven economy they suddenly interferer with it like this. Probes are meant to be lost & replaced. Consequence of not using your head. Now there's non, ccp babysits you your way through probing.
Hurray!
|
Space Wanderer
76
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:43:00 -
[213] - Quote
Here are a couple of points that have not been adrressed in either the SISI feedback threads nor the dev blog, and about which I am worried about:
1) Scanning modules.
They seem to be rather overpowered, compared to the current mechanics, despite the introduction of the stacking penalty. While you took care of the acquisition module by allowing only one, we still have pinpointing modules that when stacked can allow to find almost any site/ship in two scan cycles, and rangefinding modules that when stacked allow to find "unscannable" ships without need of virtue implants. Both situations imply a rather severe change in the gameplay. Reading the dev blog it seems that those changes seem to have been overlooked. Any comments?
I also question the choice of making them passive modules. It stands to reason that if you really want to introduce such powerful modules they should at least be used only when you are uncloaked, thus adding an element of risk to the reward they give.
Finally, the fact that those modules are all for midslots probably means that anathema and cheetah are going to become almost useless. Do you plan to rebalance those two ships?
2) Lack of customizable formations.
While I don't mind the introduction of noob probe formations, what I really don't understand is why there is no way to save your own formations, and what is worse, why do you make even harder than it was before to deploy your own formations. There is really no reason to punish advanced explorers like that. I read that you have some vague plans to introduce it, but I urge you to put this very high in your priority list.
Additional observation
Honestly, the autorecovery of probes seems a real dumb-down of the game without any reason to exist, and is affecting lots of emerging gameplay. Seriously, why? For anything else, you have explained your reasons, and while I could not agree with all of them I can at least understand. But this? There is no sesnsible reason that I could see to kill gameplay that is already existing... At least allow to turn off the safeties. |
Space Wanderer
76
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:43:00 -
[214] - Quote
Stupid double post |
gawrshmapooo
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:57:00 -
[215] - Quote
My 0.02 ISK:
Was the pre-Odyssey scanning system un-intuitive? Yes. Was it broken? No it was not.
The system works, all the framework needed was already there, it just needed improvement and optimization. Not a complete simplifying rebuild.
It was a solid mechanic that operated in a realistic and variable way. The new changes feel very gimmicky and arcade-like.
On top of rebuilding most of the scanning interface as it is now, you are straight up denying the people who pay for this game emergent gameplay, which is the point of the entire game. It is literally taking the point out of eve.
Not literally as in destroying the game as a whole, but it blatantly contradicts the player driven nature of the game.
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Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
712
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:09:00 -
[216] - Quote
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:Quinn Corvez wrote:Why would they make it so people don't lose probes anymore? I don't thing waiting for your probes to return or losing them in space was that big of an issue.
LOL never been in W-space huh? Empire, Hi, Lo & Null are NOT all of EvE. A huge risk, and a ton of fun are to be had in holes when either you forget to load a launcher, or screw the pooch and let your probes expire... Adventures in Holes can be a very interesting time for all involved... But, you wouldn't know anything about that now would you? LOL
Wait, you do know Polarized. is one of the biggest wormhole alliances out there right?
Are you saying that you are that much of a idiot that you can't remember to recall your probes before jumping through a wormhole? Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4135
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:13:00 -
[217] - Quote
From the devblog:
Quote: The old decryptors had thematically strong, but very random names
This is what CCP is doing to EvE in the last years in a nutshell.
They could improve the game, they could add new content and even "newbie friendly content" (no, torturing new players with level 1 no reward missions is not "newbie friendly").
But no, the chosen path is to dumb EvE down to WoWtard levels.
When are we going to see EvE for Facebook, some now Korean owned cheap and boring title once owned by an Icelandic company?
"Ah, yes, but we tripled our revenue!". Ah, sure, so you just switched from the 10 years+ steady growth model to the crappy, basic MMO "big flash for 2 years then slowly die model".
Yes EvE was thematically strong.
One day they'll change "EvE" name to "E" because typing the whole name was too hard.
Awaiting for the promising time when the shiny new launcher will embed a Facebook page with the whole EvE (now reduced to a 20 lines script) fumbling inside. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Ptah of Thebes
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Villore Accords
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:20:00 -
[218] - Quote
I find it hilarious that some people are complaining about Eve not being Sci-Fi and this update ruining their immersion. This is obviously because Eve already contains Newtonian physics, right? And projectile (to include Hybrids as well) weapons systems that travel up to hundreds of kilometers in an instant, barring of course missiles. Super-light speed is also scientifically possible.
In other words, you already suspend your disbelief for core aspects of the game. Please shut up about your "immersion" being the excuse for a change and give feedback based on game theory, player experience, balance, or something equally as valuable. |
Karig'Ano Keikira
Tax Cheaters
59
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:34:00 -
[219] - Quote
my 2c: - new modules: well... neutral on this one, I am slightly worried it will make probing difficult sigs too easy, therefore devaluating training of probing skills, but it might be fine. It gives us option of heavily specializing ship for probing what is both good and bad - good because extra options are good, bad because it gives even more incentive for using dedicated scanning alts and devalues all-in one ships (such as exploration tech 3s); while EVE is about more ships > all-in-one ship, I am not sure that "moar alts" is good approach to things
- skill changes: neutral on this one; slightly worried that training these skills to V will be even more pointless howeever - they take forever to train, so some use of them might be nice, currently they are just pointless time sing and will be even more pointless after expansion
- auto-launch and formations: don't like: sure, it is tedious to deploy them one by one, but it has its uses - do I want them out fast and cloak asap? Then I launch 4 or 5; do I want more scanning strength? I launch 7 or 8. Also it makes catching scanning ships even more difficult (not good); I get it that idea was to make scanning easier, but it was never hard in the first place. Simplifying it makes it more and more redundant mechanic, and these simplifications make probing borderline unneeded mechanic. Imo if anything, it should be made more difficult and tricky (though not necessary tedious): - for example: you have random spots in system that screw with probes. You have special probes that discover these and special probes that can nullify them if you put them right on top. Alternatively, you can just compensate for it yourself by checking signatures, phantom signatures and similar.
- dsp removal: neutral: if removal is due to dps not working as intended and therefore bordered as 'exploit', I support removal; I can understand devs don't want us to judge all sigs in system with one scan; however if it is made to simplify probing and make it 'more accessible', then I am heavily against it - while not perfect, mechanic has its place, has its use and is far from being mandatory - I just recently started using them and while really good in wh space, they are not nearly as game-breaking as some people claim - sure they make your life easier if you have 20 sigs in system, but if you have few (and know you will have few sigs only), I am better off just launching normal probes to save time
- auto return probes: big don't like: - what if I want to leave combat probes in 'hostile' wh to annoy people who dwell inside and let them wonder if I sit cloaked and scan? It is perfectly good tactical option and this change is removing it. - losing probes is annoying, but it is more complicated thing then just pushing 'return probes' - what if I come under attack at wh with my probes out? Will I sit there and get pounded before they return or jump through? What if I don't have reserve probes and therefore risk getting stranded in wh space? Also don't count on everyone remembering to return his probes when **** hits the fan; getting stranded in wh space should be real risk and this significantly reduces it
Final notes: - more convenient is not necessary good: look at what WoW has become; put too much 'quality of life' improvements and you go to point where you break basic concepts of the game. While EVE is still holding its own against this effect, I am starting to smell changes in that direction - not good. - simplifying EVE won't attract new players just as simplifying scanning won't attract more people to low-sec, 0.0 and wh exploration |
Han Aruto
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:40:00 -
[220] - Quote
Whats the point of having a hidden belt you can warp to with NO effort put in finding it? Isnt that why we have Asteroid belts? You want ore and u cant/ wount train to find the Hidden( Gravimetric sites) jump in a badge and warp to an asteroid belt.
Low and null sec mining should be dangerous but c'mon CCP, the risk of mining in low security space is ridiculous. If the system i am mining in is bigger than D-Scan range i wount even know whats going on untill i am dead( but may be i am just a n00b).
So to be safe as miner, just dock up or pos up if a red gets in your system so if you are not in big mining corp or alliance just stay in hisec right?
What have you guys done |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4135
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:42:00 -
[221] - Quote
Han Aruto wrote:So to be safe as miner, just dock up or pos up if a red gets in your system so if you are not in big mining corp or alliance just stay in hisec right? What have you guys done
It's called "Goonification", that is the act of catering only to zergs and blobs, screw everybody else. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Eru GoEller
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:47:00 -
[222] - Quote
With rats removed from profession sites bar w-space and COSMOS sites and i'm not going to do the minigame, what is there left for me to do in this "Exploration expansion". Here's what i think i do, fit a ship ( Recon or a cloaky T3 ) with the new scanning modules and scrambler fitted, no problem there since i'm not fitting any analyzer tools. Then i just enter any profession site i scan out, and have a go at the loot spewing out from someone who actually does the minigame. In COSMOS sites a tanking ship will be enough to zip around and get what's spewing out from a successfull hack. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
494
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:52:00 -
[223] - Quote
Sorry, not hugely impressed.
It appears you have spendt a lot of resources on reinventing the wheel and have come up with a lesser product than the origional. I do not understand who could authorize you to spend so much effort on a system that was already working fine before, while we have systems like PI who could seriously have needed the attention instead.
It also appears you have aimed this new design towards people who do not play Eve (yet). Why do you people never learn that attempting to bring in new customers is wasted if you **** off your existing in the process? Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Minadaar Kariu
Krineria
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:52:00 -
[224] - Quote
Logix42 wrote:Scan probes recalling on jump / dock is ridiculous.
1) You are not keeping true to the core of EVE Online. Actions have consequences If someone leaves probes behind and gets stuck in a wormhole, or has to fly 10 jumps to buy more probes, that is good. Auto-recalling is bad hand holding and fundamentally flawed. Just don't.
2) There are several reasons more experienced pilots may want to leave probes out when they jump. They can act as a decoy to make people think someone is in system. Or you can jump back in and scan again in the exact same position. And I'm sure there are more that I don't regularly use/know about.
Quote for truth |
Ankari Lytaken
Inept Astronomics
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 08:53:00 -
[225] - Quote
I am sure this has been mentioned before, and I cannot be arsed to go through this entire thread, but I just wanted to voice my opinion (as what I would consider to be a casual solo player) that I dislike the probes being automagically returned to your ship when you jump. Not so much because of immersion or whatever, but because it seems to remove some aspects of gameplay that I have come to appreciate about this game and yet does not really add anything.
I have gotten lost in wormholes before due to a panic inspired loss of probes, and I was forced to (gasp) communicate with other players, something I would not have done under normal circumstances. It cost me a few ISK, but in the end it was a pleasant experience (mostly because it was far less ISK than the cost of my ship + implants, but still).
So yeah, maybe think about it once or twice before you go through with this specific change. Besides, what about the poor probe manufacturers? |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 09:02:00 -
[226] - Quote
Can't say I approve of all the hand holding going on in this release. ccp has been invaded by hello kitty developers.
What have you done with the real eve developers you fiends ?
|
Adam Reed
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 09:39:00 -
[227] - Quote
I sense the business with the cans shooting off in all directions is going to be desperately frustrating.
Generally it feels as though those of us who do exploration in its current state are losing out at the expense of new players. Sometimes it happens I suppose but we don't have to feel happy about it. If CCP could make clear how experienced explorers can retain an edge over new players perhaps we'll be less inclined to moan about the changes. I don't know, maybe maxed-out exploring skills make the cans hurtle off a little slower so we've a chance to grab more of them before they vanish, something like that.
And I have to join in the chorus of disapproval at the automatically recalled probes, it just doesn't feel like the game I've been playing for years, makes it feel a little less real if that makes any sense. |
Dierdra Vaal
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
255
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 09:44:00 -
[228] - Quote
Two questions:
* Will the new probe/scanner window have the 'disable probe' toggle that the current window has? This toggle made it very easy to toggle groups of probes on/off. I use this a lot when using 2 groups of 4 probes to scan down 2 sites at the same time, where I disable one group to collectively move/resize the other without affecting the first group.
* The drug manufacturing sites that were essentially combat sites with a bunch of hacking containers that held booster BPCs and materials, what type will these fall under? Gas, Combat or Data?
Veto #205 * * * Director Emeritus at EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman |
Dmitri Ronuken
ReStore of Reset The Superpowers
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 09:49:00 -
[229] - Quote
Adam Reed wrote:I sense the business with the cans shooting off in all directions is going to be desperately frustrating.
I need to try this out on the test server. I play EVE on a laptop convertible with a stylus, and I'm wondering if I'll have a wondrous advantage by being able to tap each and every piece of loot with my pen onscreen vs. everyone else that is hurriedly dragging their mouse around trying to click on loot as it moves. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
306
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 09:50:00 -
[230] - Quote
Bolds (numbered) from blog, responses by yours trully:
1. The goal was to try to make exploration as easily accessible in the early stages as those two, as exploration allows players to experience better the unique flair of EVE than mining or missioning does.
And in doing so, you actually made it more annoying for those using different scanning techniques. What's worse, you've removed some mystery from space, as the overview scanner now instantly tells you if there are sites in the system.
2. You launch all probes in your launcher at once, regardless of how many you currently have loaded. You can have a maximum of 8 probes in space at the same time. All players can use 8 probes now by default as the Astrometrics skill no longer limits the number.
The mechanic for this is... let's just say it could be better. Let's assume I only want to launch two probes. In order to do so, the fastest way is to launch all of them, however many I have loaded and then recall the unneeded ones. That's just messy. What's worse, let's say I want a classical 4+4 spread (most WH people will know the formation). It's a planar spread, without Z-axis variation, however both preset launches have probes that are offset, meaning I'll need to spend extra time fixing this. It's not much work for a trained explorer, but it's no better than the previous system. There is no way at all to launch all probes in a planar spread. There's no way at all to launch probes stacked up. There's no way at all to launch all probes as the explorer wants it. In other words, you are shoving your choices down our throats whether we like it or not - and the forums should be indicative enough on what people think about it.
3. There are two pre-set formations coming in Odyssey for players to use GÇô Spread (probes aligned to cover a large area) and Pinpoint (probes aligned to focus on one point). These are not intended to be the absolute best possible formations, but rather a solid starting point for budding explorers.
You're trying to be good to starting players, I understand that. However, imo, you should only make it a very basic setup, then allow players to save their own formations. There should be room for growth and you shouldn't be punished for making things in your own way.
4. The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined.
Completely unintuitive. Unless you READ about it in this very blog, there's no way at all for a new player to know this. When I first saw it, I automatically assumed that is where the probes are. It wasn't until I saw them in space next to me that I realized that's not the case.
5. The default method for moving probes is a single handle for all probes you have out. Holding Shift will give you an individual handle for each probe, same as the current default. Holding Alt allows you to move your probes closer together.
Probes will also resize together by default, holding Shift allows for individual resizing. Note that this is the opposite of the previous system. Resizing probes keeps them centered. WeGÇÖve also made the celestial brackets be less in the way when moving/resizing probes.
Default grouping is fine, it's the natural way anyway. It would be great if resizing happened in relative rather than absolute sizes.
6. The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead.
Worst change of them all. I could have swallowed the rest of the changes, but this one alone kills your whole work for me. This is a HUGE no-no, which should never have happened in EVE, a game where your actions (or inactions) supposedly have consequences.
7. The system remembers your last probe setup before they were automatically recalled so they can be quickly deployed again in the same pattern (by activating the launcher). No more forsaken probes in space!
This mechanic should be part of the manual, rather than automatic recall, as it "remembers" player's setup.
8. Deep Space Probes (DSP) are being removed.
Don't like it, but I'll live.
9. WeGÇÖre changing the terminology of a few things
Needless, it takes away from the immersion. Just because something is a radar doesn't mean it's a radar on a plane, does it?
Overall: BOOOO - which you should have known by now if you had bothered to read the test server feedback thread. These changes are actually bad enough that at least this part of the expansion should get delayed, because all you'll be doing by releasing it in current shape is pissing explorers off. |
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Eru GoEller
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 10:04:00 -
[231] - Quote
Dierdra Vaal wrote:Two questions:
......................
* The drug manufacturing sites that were essentially combat sites with a bunch of hacking containers that held booster BPCs and materials, what type will these fall under? Gas, Combat or Data?
They belong to Null COSMOS and as such they are now regarded as Relic sites.
|
Abigail Sagan
Active Fusion Cold Fusion.
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 10:16:00 -
[232] - Quote
CCP, the changes in the blog are mostly 'okay' even though some of them are questionable or even outright wrong. However, I feel like there is something missing from this coming this expansion, namely the exploration expansion itself. You have now told us about the changes, next lets get to your big secret the main dish of the expansion! CCP, please tell us about the new stuff soon, we explorers are eagerly awaiting for the good news from your Team Big Secret! We are sure you won't let us down!
Just one of the explorers PS: The worst wrong change imo is Grav/Ore sites becoming anomalies, and doing heavy damage to many of the wormhole (and to lesser extent to null sec) miners.
|
William Sedgwick Vyvorant
Why Mine
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 10:51:00 -
[233] - Quote
Ptah of Thebes wrote:I find it hilarious that some people are complaining about Eve not being Sci-Fi and this update ruining their immersion. This is obviously because Eve already contains Newtonian physics, right? And projectile (to include Hybrids as well) weapons systems that travel up to hundreds of kilometers in an instant, barring of course missiles. Super-light speed is also scientifically possible.
In other words, you already suspend your disbelief for core aspects of the game. Please shut up about your "immersion" being the excuse for a change and give feedback based on game theory, player experience, balance, or something equally as valuable.
The thing with Sci-Fi and the suspension of disbelief is that a consistency within a universe is key. For probes auto recalling my issue would be that if my probes can instantly appear in my cargo hold when I jump a gate 100AU from where the probes were dropped why don't my probes move everywhere instantly, why is there a a transit time before they start scanning? It doesn't make sense and is needless hand holding, at the moment if you lose your probes you learn to remember to recall them, now there's going to be no consequence to someone forgetting. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
712
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 11:02:00 -
[234] - Quote
You launch all probes in your launcher at once, regardless of how many you currently have loaded. You can have a maximum of 8 probes in space at the same time. All players can use 8 probes now by default as the Astrometrics skill no longer limits the number.
I'm assuming you are not going to let us reload the probe launcher while cloaked and that we are still going to have to wait 10 seconds for the probes to reload? Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
712
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 11:06:00 -
[235] - Quote
Abigail Sagan wrote:CCP, the changes in the blog are mostly 'okay' even though some of them are questionable or even outright wrong. However, I feel like there is something missing from this coming this expansion, namely the exploration expansion itself. You have now told us about the changes, next lets get to your big secret the main dish of the expansion! CCP, please tell us about the new stuff soon, we explorers are eagerly awaiting for the good news from your Team Big Secret! We are sure you won't let us down!
As an explorer, why would you want to be told exactly what's out there to find? Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
Antibac
Maul Corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 11:14:00 -
[236] - Quote
Pretty much all of this has already been mentioned by others, but I wanted to add my voice:
Auto-recalling probes on session change:
- This removes the mechanic of making a choice to wait on a WH/gate/station to get your Sister's probes back, or running off and leaving them because you're under fire.
- Also, as people have stated, it's preventing people from making a flying mistake (leaving their probes behind somewhere) and suffering the consequences (losing money, or at worst, getting stranded in a WH).
- Also you will no longer be able to leave probes out in system to confuse/scare your enemies in WH space. I regularly use T1 probes as WH squid-ink.
Launching all loaded probes at once:
- This makes probing somewhat safer in hostile space as you don't have to stay uncloaked for 7 times as long in order to drop 7 probes. For slower ships, where you can't move off your decloak point very fast once you recloak, this could be a pretty big buff.
- Also it means you can't launch a single probe and then recloak more than once. You will *always* have to reload the launcher to launch a second probe, which means sitting uncloaked for 10 seconds.
I also don't understand why you've gone for the UX nightmare of swapping around pre-existing probe movement controls that players have got used to, but at least that's something I can just re-learn eventually, it doesn't really impact the game at all.
Finally the change to make asteroid belts into anomalies instead of signatures seems to be making life much harder for miners who are not in hisec. With this change, I can now drop into system in a cloaking ship, d-scan to see if there's barges out, system scan to find the mining sites, and warp right on top of them without them ever seeing me.
In wormhole space, this will make the mining sites even more unattractive as you won't even have local to alert you that some cloaker is about to land on you at zero. Right now a WH miner has the slight safety net that someone either needs to scan out the signature you are in (so you can see the probes and get to safety), or have made the effort to scan it out before you were there, and lie in wait for you (in which case maybe they deserve your loot for all their hard work).
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3003
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 11:49:00 -
[237] - Quote
These changes make scanning a trivial, mundane task that has no room for player or character skills, so it's just an annoyance before you can warp to the sig you see right away when you jump in a system.
When something becomes too simple, you need start thinking of the value the feature itself has. Is it interesting? Does it improve immersion? Player interaction? Satisfaction?
What value does the scanner bring in comparison with just warping to any sig directly?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
712
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 11:53:00 -
[238] - Quote
^ Was clicking a button really that interesting? Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
Space Wanderer
78
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 11:58:00 -
[239] - Quote
Roime wrote:These changes make scanning a trivial, mundane task that has no room for player or character skills, so it's just an annoyance before you can warp to the sig you see right away when you jump in a system.
When something becomes too simple, you need start thinking of the value the feature itself has. Is it interesting? Does it improve immersion? Player interaction? Satisfaction?
What value does the scanner bring in comparison with just warping to any sig directly?
I have to agree with this. While I understand what was the aim of the devs, i think that they went after it in a horrible way. Acqtually the opposite way. Instead of giving you a tool to identify your target (the DSP used to do that) and then requiring you to hunt for it in a complex and engaging way, they removed all the tools to identify your target, and then require you to hunt every possible target in a imple and mechanic way.
This is getting more and more towards grinding and less and less from exploration. i am afraid that they are moving farther from the vision they proposed, instead than towards it... |
Frank Pannon
Scorpius Federation Heart 0f Darkness
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 12:09:00 -
[240] - Quote
A lot of good arguments can be read in this thread why these probing changes are not beneficial, and take away player-made choices, offering a blanket solution instead.
When I started playing 3 years ago, I was drawn to this great universe by the graphics, the sheer endlessness of space, the freedom provided by the sandbox, and the dark and unforgiving environment that was provided by game mechanics and the EVE community itself.
A few month into my gaming I saw the Causailty trailer (watch it, it is great), let me quote from it: GÇPYou have entered a universe where the path to glory is paved by one's choices. Those choices do not come without consequence, and every action taken can carry one closer to their highest goals or drag them down to unimaginable depths. EVE Online's Summer 2010 trailer, "Causality," presents a scenario where each participant's decisions lead them to their respective destinations, for better or for worse.GÇ¥ Also a famous quote I read a lot back than from a CCP developer was: "EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." / CCP Wrangler.
While my analogy might be far fetched, and I can not pinpoint exactly why, but I feel like this dark, harsh universe is fading away. Now I read people complaining that it is unfair towards newer players that some parts of the universe are closed off to them from day one. EVE is a fantastic sandbox, and there is NOTHING remotely fair in a sandbox. The bigger kids beat up the smaller ones. But once the small kid figures out a way to make the bully cry, you can not wipe the smile from his face.
Learning probing and the geometry behind it was a nice personal achievement, which I feel like is now being taken away from newbros. I once got stuck in a WH with my Orca trying to close a hole. Luckily got stranded with my prober on the same side. With Lady Luck helping and a lot of caution I managed to get back to hisec in about a week through multiple wormholes. This is not about me being pro, but about EXCITEMENT, the MISTERY, the CONSEQUENCES, and the REWARDS of succeeding. The day I got back to hisec I was THE proudest guy in EVE.
I completely understand CCPGÇÖs standpoint, they need to grow the playerbase, and make EVE more appealing to new players. I also want EVE to strive and gain more people, since I want to play for years to come. Hell, I just extended for another year! I just fear that in their eagerness they crack the fundametals of this great game.
P.s. RIP WH mining. |
|
Abigail Sagan
Active Fusion Cold Fusion.
32
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 12:14:00 -
[241] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:As an explorer, why would you want to be told exactly what's out there to find?
Eh, I don't want to know "exactly" what new there 'will be'. Instead I would love to know for sure that there is an expansion, not just these changes. I would be very happy if CCP told us that there will be a new site or maybe even two per faction for example. However, since CCP has not told us there will be those, I am starting to lose the hope of seeing "new stuff" with this exploration expansion.
Also rationally CCP would be wise to advertise the New Stuff, because that would bring in more customers. Now that they are quiet about 'new stuff', it simply tells us that there is no new stuff. Only these tweaks, eyecandy, clickfest with pinata at end and new limitation or two. In my opinion these changes aren't worth the title "exploration expansion".
Well, I admit, I probably expected too much when I heard Odyssey would be about exploration:
Odyssey Web Page wrote: EVE Online's nineteenth free expansion, Odyssey, offers new tools for exploring the stars, challenges you to breach the unknown for adventure and rewards, and to face what lies on the other side.
My above post was just my bitter vet reaction to admitting I expected too much from CCP - again. Maybe I learn one of these days? Or will CCP actually surprise me positively with their live streams today and tomorrow? Unfortunately I find the likelyhood of that to be .. tiny. |
Paula Uta
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 12:14:00 -
[242] - Quote
1. The goal was to try to make exploration as easily accessible in the early stages as those two, as exploration allows players to experience better the unique flair of EVE than mining or missioning does.
So exploration is quite cool , mission and mining are shallow and boring .
So you want more people into exploration since it give more emergent gameplay so you are making it as shallow nad boring as missions !! Congratulations on your mastery of logic. |
Dino Boff
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 12:20:00 -
[243] - Quote
Have you thought of disallowing scanning mods on ships with scanning bonus. They would allow normal ships to be good at scanning at the expense of mid slots but wouldn't make probing so easy on covop and exploration t1 frigate? |
BeanBagKing
Aperture Harmonics K162
231
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 12:33:00 -
[244] - Quote
Three immediate concerns with this new system. Appologies if these have been answered, I'm on my phone which makes it much harder to read through the entire thread.
1) with regards to not being able to leave your probes behind. While handy, there are some instances where I want to leave my probes behind, like creeping out wormhole neighbors. Will I still be able to manually abandon them?
2) with regards to DSP, I'm rather upset about this, not because I've ever used them, but because I think its another indication that things are being limited to the area around planets on the solar plane. Its just dissapointing that there isnt anything way put there to find with deep space probes.
3) I have no love for miners and will enjoy being able to hunt them easier, but I do feel like the current soverenty system rewards (whatever you call it) is stacked unfairly towards ratters and not miners. I.e. its easy to get a system to lv5 mil index and keep it there. It seems much harder to do the same for industry. Will this index be tweeked to allow more nullsec alliances to take advantage of local minerals and attract more miners to nullsec? |
Dino Boff
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 12:43:00 -
[245] - Quote
Paula Uta wrote: So you want more people into exploration since it give more emergent gameplay so you are making it as shallow nad boring as missions !! Congratulations on your mastery of logic.
How so?
They removed the tedious mechanics of probing like putting probes in formation one probe at a time. They are replacing the predictable waves of NPC to kill for puzzle games.
I don't see how it makes exploring shallow and boring.
The scanning mods might be OP and the automatic recall of probes might be unnecessary. I don't think it's a bead deal; it makes scanning easier but certainly not shallow or boring.
I understand why miner would be butthurt about their gravs... But explorers should rejoice. |
Eru GoEller
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:03:00 -
[246] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:Paula Uta wrote: So you want more people into exploration since it give more emergent gameplay so you are making it as shallow nad boring as missions !! Congratulations on your mastery of logic.
How so? They removed the tedious mechanics of probing like putting probes in formation one probe at a time. They are replacing the predictable waves of NPC to kill for puzzle games. I don't see how it makes exploring shallow and boring. The scanning mods might be OP and the automatic recall of probes might be unnecessary. I don't think it's a bead deal; it makes scanning easier but certainly not shallow or boring. I understand why miner would be butthurt about their gravs... But explorers should rejoice. As an explorer I certainly do, i'm not going to fit any hacking modules, i just fit scanning modules and ninja whatever i can get hold after you successfully hacked a can in a profession site and i'm in the same system. |
Frank Pannon
Scorpius Federation Heart 0f Darkness
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:11:00 -
[247] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:Paula Uta wrote: So you want more people into exploration since it give more emergent gameplay so you are making it as shallow nad boring as missions !! Congratulations on your mastery of logic.
How so? They removed the tedious mechanics of probing like putting probes in formation one probe at a time. They are replacing the predictable waves of NPC to kill for puzzle games. I don't see how it makes exploring shallow and boring. The scanning mods might be OP and the automatic recall of probes might be unnecessary. I don't think it's a bead deal; it makes scanning easier but certainly not shallow or boring. I understand why miner would be butthurt about their gravs... But explorers should rejoice.
That puzzle game feels like a very underwhelming Minesweeper. You click around aimlessly, than you click on core and you are done. Like children at birthday parties that have been whacking a pinata that hangs from the tree, you try and grab as many candies as possible before they melt. So you click around in space cursing your mouse. This seems to me like a major source of frustration, and not an enhancement. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
799
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:13:00 -
[248] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:I understand why miner would be butthurt about their gravs... But explorers should rejoice.
Ah, so probably that is true meaning of "exploration" expansion: frakking anybody who uses combat probes. Explobears rejoice!
I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
322
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:20:00 -
[249] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes. Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."
Automatically recalling probes whenever docking or jumping isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to launch all probes in the launcher up to a maximum of 8 even if we just wanted to launch one isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to start in one of two preset configurations isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing the initial position of the probes (on the map) at the sun isn't dumbing the game down (and doesn't represent a huge nerf to combat probing)?
Woah... wait... what? Probes are being forced to the sun on deployment? This is crazy... Standard procedure for coming through a new WH is to drop 1 probe and cloak up.... This new "stuff" will force me to manualy reposition the probe to my current map location to do a simple scan... |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
207
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:20:00 -
[250] - Quote
Since people have been addressing the mechanics changes quite well, I'll tackle the reasoning behind the changes to begin with.
Devblog wrote:Exploration is something that appeals to a lot of players, but because it is so obscure it was rarely something that newer players entered early. Instead, newer players tend to go for easily accessible systems like missioning or mining as their first careers.The goal was to try to make exploration as easily accessible in the early stages as those two, as exploration allows players to experience better the unique flair of EVE than mining or missioning does. I remember my new player days; after multiple false starts, I subscribed to EVE after Apocrypha and after wormhole exploration was introduced.
I started out running exploration sites and even jumping into wormholes to farm some of the easier anoms/mags/radars in there, not knowing how stupid I was behaving :)
The issue isn't that exploration is hard and missions/mining is easy (to translate the above market-speek). Well, for the kind of player who won't bother playing EVE past the trial this may be the case, but in general it is not. The scanning tutorial is great, and very clearly explains probing and the various types of sites that can be found. I didn't know about the tutorial video until much later, but if the game tutorial isn't working for you, the video answers any question you might have.
The main issue is the lack of consistent income. Everything in EVE is driving you toward having a solid income, whether to purchase the next skill upgrade (for new players), or to buy that new ship, or to buy that new ship again after you lost it in PvP, etc. Missions at any level provide a solid, predictable income that people can depend on without requiring huge investments of time and people power to see profits.
A second issue is competition. Competition exists to some degree with mining, but the resources vastly outnumber the harvesters. With exploration, when you do finally find that Radar site and warp to it (since, honestly, Mags are worthless), you see it full of wrecks and someone hacking the last can. Or if you make it in first and start clearing the rats, while you are shooting someone else comes in, hacks the cans while you finish shooting, takes whatever mediocre loot is in them, and leaves.
Mining and Missioning are more successful because it's easier for the new player who may not know anyone else to earn a steady, predictable income without losing potential revenue because someone was faster, more skilled, better equipped, etc. Missioning is also popular because of other games, which have little or no exploration beyond hunting for crafting resources, and you'll never take that out of the minds of new players trying EVE for the first time.
"Lowering the barrier of entry" (ie: making it easier) means newer players can access the content easier. But it also makes it easier for the experienced player to steamroll the noobs that much faster. And now, the "opportunist" can just sit in a site cloaked watching a noob hack the new-can and just grab everything as it pops out. At least with the previous system, if you hacked the can you had a better than average chance of grabbing any loot inside.
In what ways have you, or will you, be addressing the lack of consistent income for exploration sites, and the sometimes-fierce competition found when hunting them down which places new players at an immediate disadvantage? When you tackle those two things, you suddenly make exploration a true profession. (Note: the skills overhaul and "making them easier to scan" is not a correct answer; it just makes it that much easier for the veteran to stomp the noob).
|
|
Claire Raynor
NovaGear Limitless Inc.
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:23:00 -
[251] - Quote
Initial reaction was good - didn't like probes not starting near me - didn't like the expensive probing skills being devalued. Since considering the stuff people have posted my concerns are growing.
People are saying that CCP are saying Odyessy is supposed to be "the" Exploration expansion.
Well based upon the stuff going on in features and ideas - clone costs - modules - ohh and ship balancing - along with corp quit timers and stuff like that. Exploration hasn't had anything added - except Grav sites were removed and we now have a minigame to play whilst hacking and doing archaeology. It seems to be the patch of awesome ship balance! Anyway:
CCP Rise wrote:A small comment on EVE philosophy from me related to some of the conversation in here: No one here at CCP wants to reduce consequences in EVE as a whole. The fact that your actions have real consequences is obviously one of the most central parts of EVE design, and I promise that we don't want to move away from that as an over all design philosophy. The thing we are looking at with clones, is that currently the consequences are attached to something arbitrary (account age) which is potentially causing people to actually engage in less risky behavior overall. There's a lot of directions the clone system COULD go, and I can't say anything specific about that right now. The important thing here is that we A: don't want to make a style of game-play, which we like, inaccessible via an arbitrary tax, and B: generally, consequences aren't going anywhere, so don't worry.
1) But this feature really does "dumb" down probes. No consequence for not recalling probes. 1 Less probe type to choose from. 1 less signature to scan for. Knowing everything before you even scan them down a bit. No need to drag probes to set formations. No need to train skills to even launch your probes, (not like before!). No need to even launch probes after the first one - because they all go in a oner. No way to lose probes unless intentionally abandoning them? Site names make sense but we lose flavour again for the sake of new player approachability.
2) Knowing everything that is there to be found before you start scanning - well you aren't "Explorining" anymore. There will be no sense of discovery in an exploration system that tells you before hand what is there to be found - it just leaves you with a maths/locus puzzle to do - before you warp. I didn't know that you'd just see everything in system that is to be found BEFORE you even drop a probe! That is what this new overlay does, no? Posts on here seem to indicate it will. Imagine if I was about to go on Holiday and suddenly I know everything that will happen already - or I went to the cinema and suddenly I know all the main plot points? it isn't exploration.
3) Wiping out the old system has removed some emergent gameplay that isn't being replaced. Was it intentional that a fleet prober can't anymore just drop probes and hit scan to get a warp to when trying to close range? Will this make long range and Alpha doctrines even stronger?
4) There is an imbalance with wormhole miners - this has to be fixed. With all the ore belts now removed and only a limited number of these grav sites that don't need to be scanned - If I see a miner - I know almost exactly where he is going to be and therefore I don't need to scan him. But he has the benefit of local - no he doesn't - and I'm cloaked and in a Loki - He won't even see my scan probes - because I don't need them - and he's pointed. This is broken. [An easy and quick fix would be to spawn minable stuff in the few remaining signatures that we do still need to scan].
5) The inability to lose probes will hurt the markets - and anyone doing SOE faction missions for LP.
I'd hold fire on this part of the update. People have got soo much to get used to already. What about all the people who don't read the blogs. You've massivly changed a lot of ships - even Iconic ones. For example - in regard of the RF Typhoon - it used to be an armour based cruise missile platform - it's now a sheild biased AC platform.
Just please prehaps rethink this - I'm going to try and get on SiSi to make a fuller evaluation of this - but if the above is all correct - this isn't great. |
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth R.E.P.O.
101
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:25:00 -
[252] - Quote
Red some criticism here that i dont really understand.
Someone pointed out that removing the indication of scan results strength is a bag thing. It is absolutely a good thing in my eyes. It makes the player's scanning skill and experience count more than the skill in reading numbers of a spreadsheet that tells you which signature is what site/wormhole.
I actually never noticed that there is no scan result strength numbers anymore until pointed to it. Anyway this is a very good change if it comes true.
The whole scanning system as i tested it a week ago on SISI is a very very welcome change from my point of view. Of course it needs some more love and i hope it will get that love during the coming months.
Regards Gal
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
322
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:36:00 -
[253] - Quote
Securis Unus wrote:Please allow us to save our own probe configuration.
Please fix it so the columns Distance, ID, Scan Group, Group, and Type can be adjusted in width instead of scaling with the whole scanner window.
woah... are you telling me that the columns scale with the window size? This is farking ********... That MUST be fixed... |
Sul Glass
Iron Crown The Order of Pandora
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:45:00 -
[254] - Quote
God I will miss my DSP. DSP=isk fountain.
Mostly (because I am a dark hearted, paranoid son of a *****) I think CCP hate solo explorers.
As far as I can tell it is the only way to make a **** ton of isk and not have to bother with other pilots. But we all have to get along and play in a team and support each other and give each other hugs.................................. God, I weep.
Please let us sad, introverted saddos who like our own company and eschew others the joy of systems of emptiness and a decent ship to scan them in.
On the other hand I thought the last expansion screwed me and after I had figured it out my isk income doubled so WTF do I know?
GIVE ME MY DSP BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Plus, I am going to KILL any noob exploring in my range STONE FECKING DEAD. I will make them cry and leave low sec and exploring for ever. I will give them a pavlovian response of wetting ther pants when the even look at a core probe. That should make it easy for them.
And I only use 5 probes, customisable options now plz |
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth R.E.P.O.
101
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 14:04:00 -
[255] - Quote
Dear Team Super Friends,
i think almost all of these changes are spot on really while of course some feature needs more love during the next months.
Most of that whining here like "dumbing down scanning" is just rubbish really.
I just can't see where significantly improving an interface is "dumbing down" an activity for which it is used. It rather makes that activity less tedious and more fun. Thumbs up for that.
Removing the scan result strength indicator of the scan window is premium if it really is true. Just red that in some whiner post here. Finally exploration is becoming exploration again instead of dropping a probe and ready numbers from a spreadsheet telling you which result is what type of signature. Now these folks will hopefully have to do exploration again instead of just talking about it while benefiting of the exploits around it.
Looking forward to the Odyssey expension big time.
Cheers Gal |
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 14:07:00 -
[256] - Quote
Hey CCP, is this the second thread where feedback regarding this awful scanning system will be completely ignored?
Current system works great and the only useful feature you could add is "custom probe formations". Instead we're getting a lot of changes which break core sandbox principles (for details READ the feedback in both threads). And we're not even getting that only useful feature.
Probably you'll attract some new players to what you call "exploration", but you'll definitely distract a lot of veteran probers.
This feature must not get to Odyssey and I'll try to reach more competent developers that will understand all the issues this changes introduce.
P.S. This is a rage post, constructive post with all the details coming later. |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
156
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 14:28:00 -
[257] - Quote
Regarding personal hangers...is the 50K amount a set in stone figure? I mean they are useful if you are just storing modules or equipment in; however, for corps that use wh space, that is where the most space is taken up via PI and Ore. Yeah yeah yeah, I know EvE is about trust and keeping or breaking that trust. However, the entire purpose behind the personal hanger concept is to provide hanger space in towers without the need to give you members roles for stuff.
I think another 0 might help that, increase to 500K, this number is still 1/3 of a corp hanger, but gives a bit more space for accounting ore and PI. WH space has null sec ores which can take up quite a bit of space. Anyway, that's really the only issue I have with this blog. |
Mstr Wu
Ice Consortium
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 14:31:00 -
[258] - Quote
Popsikle wrote:CCP Orion wrote:Dino Boff wrote:Nice changes. I've always been sad too few newbies started eve by running exploration. I hope it will bring more players to it.
I just hope w-space mag and radar won't be too messed up.
Also, can you still copy/paste the signature list? yes, copy to clipboard is unchanged. So you pick one of the three posts in the 10 pages of comments that like the idea to respond to? How about responding to the rest of us who thing these changes SUCK? You are killing markets that people are heavily invested into. You are killing skills that people are heavily invested into. You are killing wh mining completely.. Just to mention three of the major issues, not to mention having to micro manage how many probes are in our launchers.... But go ahead, respond to the one positive post instead of actually listening to your playbase. Have you guys not learned ANYTHING over the last 10 years?!?!?
I was going to make fun of them for this. you beat me to it :(
|
Mstr Wu
Ice Consortium
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 14:42:00 -
[259] - Quote
This morning I was scanning down some grav sites and remembering how terrible at it I use to be. Reflecting on how long it took me when I first started, laughing at my early attempts and feeling a sense of accomplishment at how good at the task I have become.
Thank you CCP for removing this experience for not only me, but any person who might in some future sense feel a similar sense of accomplishment for becoming better at something. Thank you for your rabid compulsion to dumb down the game so that it appeals to the ADD generation who have no impulse to better themselves at anything. Thank you for completely ignoring the fan base who enjoy a challenge, the people who have made your game a success. After you have driven us away you'll soon find out at the people with the attention span of a fruit fly don't stick with any game very long, ever.
Excellent feature set. |
DigDoug
Order of the Phoenix Gentlemen's Agreement
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 14:57:00 -
[260] - Quote
A LETTER TO THE DEVELOPERS OF EVE
Lets take a walk down memory lane, o forgetful developers of Eve. BEHOLD!
A LETTER TO THE FOLLOWERS OF EVE 05.10.2011 17:29 By CCP Hellmar
Dear Followers of EVE Online,
The past few months have been very humbling for me. IGÇÖve done much soul searching, and what follows is my sincere effort to clear the air with all of you. Please bear with me as I find my way through.
The estrangement from CCP that many of you have been feeling of late is my fault, and for that I am truly sorry. There are many contributing factors, but in the end it is I who must shoulder the responsibility for much of what has happened. In short, my zeal for pushing EVE to her true potential made me lose sight of doing the simple things right. I was impatient when I should have been cautious, defiant when I should have been conciliatory and arrogant when I should have been humble....
..... Somewhere along the way, I began taking success for granted. As hubris set in, I became less inclined to listen to pleas for caution. Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans. Mistakes, even when they were acknowledged, often went unanalyzed, leaving the door open for them to be repeated.
You have spoken, loudly and clearly, with your words and with your actions. And there were definitely moments in recent history when I wish I would have listened more and taken a different path.
I was wrong and I admit it.
In the interest of time I'll just cut that off right there, because if you're capable of getting the point it'll be enough.
Stop ignoring us. Address the many repeated concerns voiced in not only this thread but since this feature set was added to the test server.
Don't pick out the one or two positive posts that you made with your alts just to generate the appearance that this is some kind of dynamic exchange of information.
We pay you for this game. We deserve to be treated like we matter. You need to respond to the CRITICISM of this feature set, you need to do it now and you need to LISTEN to us before you put these changes into effect on the live server. |
|
GeeShizzle MacCloud
327
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:04:00 -
[261] - Quote
my issues with these changes:
Quote:There are two pre-set formations coming in Odyssey for players to use GÇô Spread (probes aligned to cover a large area) and Pinpoint (probes aligned to focus on one point). These are not intended to be the absolute best possible formations, but rather a solid starting point for budding explorers.
The point formation is one used by many but the spread formation i have never used and would never use, its negative aspects faaar outweigh its positives (there are obvious areas of no coverage where sigs can hide in) It seems to be a formation placed there by someone who hasnt probed much at all.
Quote:The probes launch into space next to your ship, but the formation view in the solar system map is centered around the sun and is not indicating the current position of the probes until you hit scan and they warp to the positions you've determined.
This change seems to be confusing unless uve used it in game, the formations are a set position for your probes and when u click it it moves your intended probe position to that default location. If you DO NOT hit a custom probe formation your probes stay where theyve been launched when u open up the system view display. i HATE hearing rage about a UI element that people obviously havent tried out in game and just use the forum/dev blog language to formulate their responses - yes that does mean u James Amril-Kesh, u relentless troll!
...plus this has been changed in the latest build on sisi, so that when clicking the set formations they set their formations where you launched the probes, NOT their position to the centre of the system.
Quote:The recall and expire options have been changed a bit GÇô recall is now instantaneous and happens automatically on system jump or dock. Probes still have a timer, but instead of being lost when the timer is out, they automatically recall instead.
an auto recall mechanic for probes that expire is a dangerous train of thinking for a game developer. The effects of this change will be a complete crash in the probes market. By extension, if this train of thought was applied to other areas of the game, similar effects on other areas of the market would occur, severely affecting the game. i am surprised that Dr. Gu+¦mundsson isnt shouting at you about this. Probe expiration is a big part of the depletion of probes in that area of the commodities market. This change will reduce the number of probes people buy (why have more than 8 probes when u'll never loose them unless u loose your ship?), which in turn reduces the necessity to buy new ones meaning saturation levels decrease. Add to this the fact many people probably sit on stockpiles of probes so they have reserves when they deplete or forget to recall them, this will manifest as an extreme oversupply of probes that will crash prices. Sisters probes will be the only combat/exploration probes people use for anything, so this change will make all other probes in this area obsolete.
Quote:Deep Space Probes (DSP) are being removed. With the overall changes to scanning (not just probe scanning, but also the addition of the Sensor Overlay)
From what i can remember i believed the removal of the DSP and the general system scanner window was to break and otherwise hinder bots running combat sites, and its a worthy goal to achieve, however the removal of the system scanner window showing whats in space in favour for the overlay that shows approximate locations is a severe reduction in quality-of-life. a simple removal of the right click menu on items in the system scanner window that havent been probed would be the best course of action. It'd hinder bots using the menu for warping to combat sites, but still retain the catalogued info we pilots greatly prefer to the overlay. (not saying the overlay isnt awesome, but from a pure usability standpoint it gets irritating to use very quickly when making much needed isk in nullsec.)
There are things however in these changes that i love!
Quote:You launch all probes in your launcher at once, regardless of how many you currently have loaded.
The default method for moving probes is a single handle for all probes you have out.
Probes will also resize together by default
The progress towards getting a warpable signature has been made much more visually clear.
WeGÇÖre adding new modules that affect scan probing.
WeGÇÖre changing the terminology of a few things (woop!)
We added Personal Hangar Array; We adjusted the arrows and camera when positioning POS modules.
Tech II (Capital) BPCs you get from exploration sites or through invention.
Future Stuff... In regard to Scan Probe History, if i could show u a UI example that would work well for this itd be this: http://youtu.be/9GFqMy2vjGM?t=1m32s where the condensed multiple takes are hidden with whats referred to as a "disclosure triangle". that could work well for giving access to a scan history of an object in space that has been scanned multiple times, whilst keeping the UI clear by default.
Also with the better visual scan cues its be awesome to have a representation of your current probe signal strength vs maximum in order to better ascertain if you have the required scan strength to successfully probe a signal by having the full length of the row from the start of "scan group" column to the end of the "type" column being absolute signal strength (with max skills). Then when scanning a signal the colour indicates signal strength (with green being a warpable scan) and the length of the bar increasing to a maximum depending on the signatures strength.
So something thats easy to scan will have a small coloured bar that goes green early. Something thats hard to scan has a large bar indicating a high probe scan strength being required.
(& maybe a scale above the results but below the column names that indicate ur probe strength vs max) |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
323
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:05:00 -
[262] - Quote
CCP, Please delay this expansion a few months. It needs to be revised. |
Roisin Connor
Born Imperialism Defiant Legacy
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:21:00 -
[263] - Quote
Er... is that it?
You have tweaked the scanning system and changed the way it works slightly and are selling this as an expansion.
I feel the same way after each supposed expansion - utterly dejected and depressed with the progress this game is making. When are CCP going to actually move the game on a bit ie open that station cabin door for our avatar.
There was a brilliant post about a prototype exploration game made in Unity engine that CCP had been protyping. You actually got out of your ship and explored the site, other players could come and hunt you. It was FPS love in space. Where is that? We get a few changes to exploration and call it an expansion.
Oh and you add some new system travel animation.
Man this is the only game that is worth playing at the moment but you guys really need to grow a pair and release something more than tweaks.
Please hurry the **** up CCP. |
Darskika
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:23:00 -
[264] - Quote
Really dont like the fact that you guys are not getting to custom probe configurations with the expansion. Training wheels on... |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
85
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:29:00 -
[265] - Quote
the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back.
all we want:
- user defined launch pattern(s)
- bring back Deep Space Probes
- remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
- keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
- do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
- do not magically recall probes
- allow the launch of one probe
|
Draconus Lofwyr
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:30:00 -
[266] - Quote
all grav and belts are now going to be anoms? welcome to easy mode for gankers and gangs. CCP, this was the wrong action to take. I am all for removing the static overview belts to combat bot miners, but not anoms. If you really want to do right and encourage mining, then 3 changes are needed
1. make all systems have anom based belts that only have highsec ores and ices, even in the deepest 0.0 systems
2. lowsec and nullsec higher and high end ores are still probe out only. so if you want the mex, and ABC ores, you still have to go find them.
3. remove system develop indices from the star map and add sovereignty challenge actions ( sbu's in system) currently the starmap will point the way to where people are ratting and mining like a lighthouse beacon for roaming gangs, AKA, easy mode.
These changes will make roaming gangs have to actually hunt for targets, like the miners have to do for their minerals and the ratters have to do for their rats. |
iThirdAge Stetille
Order of the Phoenix Gentlemen's Agreement
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:31:00 -
[267] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back. all we want:
- user defined launch pattern(s)
- bring back Deep Space Probes
- remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
- keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
- do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
- do not magically recall probes
- allow the launch of one probe
Leave grav sites in signatures, not moving them to anoms. Put the new ice sites in signatures as well. |
iThirdAge Stetille
Order of the Phoenix Gentlemen's Agreement
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:32:00 -
[268] - Quote
DigDoug wrote:A LETTER TO THE DEVELOPERS OF EVE
Lets take a walk down memory lane, o forgetful developers of Eve. BEHOLD!
A LETTER TO THE FOLLOWERS OF EVE 05.10.2011 17:29 By CCP Hellmar
Dear Followers of EVE Online,
The past few months have been very humbling for me. IGÇÖve done much soul searching, and what follows is my sincere effort to clear the air with all of you. Please bear with me as I find my way through.
The estrangement from CCP that many of you have been feeling of late is my fault, and for that I am truly sorry. There are many contributing factors, but in the end it is I who must shoulder the responsibility for much of what has happened. In short, my zeal for pushing EVE to her true potential made me lose sight of doing the simple things right. I was impatient when I should have been cautious, defiant when I should have been conciliatory and arrogant when I should have been humble....
..... Somewhere along the way, I began taking success for granted. As hubris set in, I became less inclined to listen to pleas for caution. Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans. Mistakes, even when they were acknowledged, often went unanalyzed, leaving the door open for them to be repeated.
You have spoken, loudly and clearly, with your words and with your actions. And there were definitely moments in recent history when I wish I would have listened more and taken a different path.
I was wrong and I admit it.
In the interest of time I'll just cut that off right there, because if you're capable of getting the point it'll be enough.
Stop ignoring us. Address the many repeated concerns voiced in not only this thread but since this feature set was added to the test server.
Don't pick out the one or two positive posts that you made with your alts just to generate the appearance that this is some kind of dynamic exchange of information.
We pay you for this game. We deserve to be treated like we matter. You need to respond to the CRITICISM of this feature set, you need to do it now and you need to LISTEN to us before you put these changes into effect on the live server.
Quoting because this should be on every new page of the thread until CCP listens.
|
Andy Landen
Air Initiative Mercenaries
125
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:37:00 -
[269] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back. all we want:
- user defined launch pattern(s)
- bring back Deep Space Probes
- remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
- keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
- do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
- do not magically recall probes
- allow the launch of one probe
By we, you mean "you."
I do NOT want the release postponed. I do NOT want DSPs. The patterns will come soon enough. The defaults that they give us are fine until then. The overlay is great and immersive. eh, no sense continuing. I think CCP is going the right direction on all the points that seem to bother you.
I would ask CCP, though, to give us an auto-center formation on scan result function. And a function to keep the best result from every scan for each signature and ignore worse results. "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein-á |
Strom Crendraven
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:46:00 -
[270] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:First... Oh wait :)
While I am happy about the Overlay and Scanning changes in general there are some details left to sort out after the Expansion hits..
I will try to work with CCP to resolve all possible issues connected to above mentioned features.
If you any of you feel that changes are bad in some way please hit me up with eve mail with reasons and how would you like this or that mechanic to be implemented and I will make sure the information is available to CCP in constructive manner.
Read the 116 posts before yours you moron. |
|
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 15:50:00 -
[271] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote: By we, you mean "you."
I do NOT want the release postponed. I do NOT want DSPs. The patterns will come soon enough. The defaults that they give us are fine until then. The overlay is great and immersive. eh, no sense continuing. I think CCP is going the right direction on all the points that seem to bother you.
I would ask CCP, though, to give us an auto-center formation on scan result function. And a function to keep the best result from every scan for each signature and ignore worse results.
I think that you are outnumbered here by the number of folks who do not like the changes. I think it's safe to say that most of us here have qualms with some aspect of the exploration system. It is very apparent that CCP did not solicit opinions from the player base and I'm even starting to suspect that they ignored the CSM as well.
No....this update is not on par with the previous updates. The mechanics that CCP is implementing have not been given due consideration. I am all for the great gate effects and some of the other nice touches that they have added. DSPs are quite helpful in the game though- I use them to get a list of all signatures in a system before I even start to probe down sites. I build a check list and then I hunt down each signature based on my list. I'm not so sure that this new system is really adding anything to the game. It's basically changing something that doesn't need to be change. I do like the the quick probe configs but I agree with others that this should be customizable.
Unlike you, I do not see how making grav sites able to be accessed by any ship without the use of probes is such a great idea. Mission running already is the defacto money maker in Eve- I guess this is CCPs way of telling the miners to just move on to something else that doesn't have a skewed risk-to-reward ratio.
I understand that you want to just see something new and shiny come out- I get that... I believe however that patience is key here and I definitely think that CCP needs to hold back on some of these ideas until they can hammer out some proper balance to the game mechanics.
|
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
87
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 16:09:00 -
[272] - Quote
iThirdAge Stetille wrote:DigDoug wrote:A LETTER TO THE DEVELOPERS OF EVE
Lets take a walk down memory lane, o forgetful developers of Eve. BEHOLD!
A LETTER TO THE FOLLOWERS OF EVE 05.10.2011 17:29 By CCP Hellmar
Dear Followers of EVE Online,
The past few months have been very humbling for me. IGÇÖve done much soul searching, and what follows is my sincere effort to clear the air with all of you. Please bear with me as I find my way through.
The estrangement from CCP that many of you have been feeling of late is my fault, and for that I am truly sorry. There are many contributing factors, but in the end it is I who must shoulder the responsibility for much of what has happened. In short, my zeal for pushing EVE to her true potential made me lose sight of doing the simple things right. I was impatient when I should have been cautious, defiant when I should have been conciliatory and arrogant when I should have been humble....
..... Somewhere along the way, I began taking success for granted. As hubris set in, I became less inclined to listen to pleas for caution. Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans. Mistakes, even when they were acknowledged, often went unanalyzed, leaving the door open for them to be repeated.
You have spoken, loudly and clearly, with your words and with your actions. And there were definitely moments in recent history when I wish I would have listened more and taken a different path.
I was wrong and I admit it.
In the interest of time I'll just cut that off right there, because if you're capable of getting the point it'll be enough.
Stop ignoring us. Address the many repeated concerns voiced in not only this thread but since this feature set was added to the test server.
Don't pick out the one or two positive posts that you made with your alts just to generate the appearance that this is some kind of dynamic exchange of information.
We pay you for this game. We deserve to be treated like we matter. You need to respond to the CRITICISM of this feature set, you need to do it now and you need to LISTEN to us before you put these changes into effect on the live server. Quoting because this should be on every new page of the thread until CCP listens.
sadly i think the only way to really get CCP to listen is through a mass un-sub protest. i am willing. but who else is?
|
Dmitri Ronuken
ReStore of Reset The Superpowers
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 16:28:00 -
[273] - Quote
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:all grav and belts are now going to be anoms? welcome to easy mode for gankers and gangs. CCP, this was the wrong action to take. I am all for removing the static overview belts to combat bot miners, but not anoms. If you really want to do right and encourage mining, then 3 changes are needed
1. make all systems have anom based belts that only have highsec ores and ices, even in the deepest 0.0 systems
2. lowsec and nullsec higher and high end ores are still probe out only. so if you want the mex, and ABC ores, you still have to go find them.
3. remove system develop indices from the star map and add sovereignty challenge actions ( sbu's in system) currently the starmap will point the way to where people are ratting and mining like a lighthouse beacon for roaming gangs, AKA, easy mode.
These changes will make roaming gangs have to actually hunt for targets, like the miners have to do for their minerals and the ratters have to do for their rats.
That would actually be a really great, I think. Scordite and Veldspar in the static belts. The four 0.5<0.9 ores in anomalies. The Zydrine-producing ores (Jaspet, Hemorphite, Hedbergite) in signatures in high sec and megacyte-producing ones in lowsec/nullsec.
It gives new players who jump into mining right away baby steps of incentive to get into exploration. Tritanium and pyerite is practically given away, isogen and mexallon gets people into hitting their onboard scanner at least, and zydrine and megacyte requires one further step into probing. Suddenly astrometrics is very valuable to miners, you've got exploration as a career in high demand by industrial/mining corps, but at the same time if miners don't want to go down that road, they don't have to. Scordite is one of the highest price ores by volume of the six high sec ore types, so unless prices change they still make a "living" even if they aren't going for omber/plagioclase/pyroxeres/kernite. |
Logix42
HELLSINKER
150
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 16:29:00 -
[274] - Quote
As an update CCP has posted in the test server feedback thread about the auto-recall
CCP Paradox wrote:We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.
- Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)
We're still reading up and discussing other points however. Source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3106300#post3106300 Operation Write Down All the Things!! G-Doc list at http://bit.ly/wdatt or the Eve-áforum post at http://bit.ly/I56ebm |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
909
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 16:33:00 -
[275] - Quote
CCP as usual, taking the Ham-fisted approach of "MY WAY BECAUSE WE KNOW BETTER" .
Nightmares of past horrors are coming back.
As a weekend prober and explorer, these changes are simply cosmetic, thrown out haphazardly and OBVIOUSLY made by people that don-¦t know their game, don-¦t play it or believe all we need to do here is PVP FOR THE LULZ.
Many much much better vet probers here have already stated, as well as in the test threads why all of these changes are BAD and WRONG.
I for one join the stance of seeing these changes as utterly antagonizing to niche proffesions and ways of play.
It is as if CCP wanted to conglomerate ALL players into a single amorphous blob of a play style.
Only thing I don-¦t quite understand, and thats why I voted for Chitsa, is that WH/Exploration mechanics needed to be looked at , not dumbed down and made prettier, so my hopes, even if slim go to him/her/it in delivering the message as a token of at least.
If I wanted to play a "pretty" game I wouldn-¦t be here and if I wanted to feel in a Star Wars battle full of blazing action, I wouldnt be here either.
ugh, just posting my displeasure, I dont care if they read this or not. I vented most of my anger a couple years ago in the forums, it-¦s useless.
Even the CSM rep will be heard and replied with a "Good points, we will look into them" as the CCP staff just goes back to whatever great plans they have in mind in a game they seem to no longer play. CCP is still stuck in 2005 and Null as the endgame of everything, and all i can do is watch Hisec as I shake my head.
/rant off Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
156
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 16:37:00 -
[276] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back. all we want:
- user defined launch pattern(s)
- bring back Deep Space Probes
- remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
- keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
- do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
- do not magically recall probes
- allow the launch of one probe
- keep Grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space
Sooo essentially you want to just say **** all the changes lets keep the game how it is till December?
[list] User defined launch patterns? Yeah lets do that bring back Deep Space Probes? To be honest I never really use them so I dont really care. remove the new probe mods? No, its nice to give scanning ships a place holder for those midslots keep your overlay in but do not force us? As I recall, you are not FORCED to use the damn thing, it cycles one freaking time, oh my save me from this one cycle CCP >.> do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it? Again, its a one cycle brief look...this doesnt keep them there so to be honest id rather see it stay. do not magically recall probes? I agree with you here, that should be removed. Allow the launch of one probe? This is already in effect. You need to split your stack of probes to whatever you normally use 1-8 and drag and drop it into the launcher. You can launch as few as 1 or as many as 8, it isn't very efficient but its a temp fix. Keep grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space? Hell no, why should miners in one area be safer then those not there? Why should person A be in a grav site and have marginal safety while person B in the same system in a standard belt have no safety? This is NOT balanced, im glad they are removing them from sigs to anoms. I would add to that last statement though that if you wanted to give wh miners a fighting chance at least, the proper solution would be to wait to do the first system scan after you enter the system. You could restrict the scan from doing its intial scan until the ship decloaks. That way at least they show on dscan first before they can find you. If you are out of dscan range...well you should be using a scout alt anyway. You have nothing else to do while mining, so may as well hit dscan on two different characters.
Odyssey is in a 200% better shape then it was when first deployed on sisi. There are some kinks to iron out but for all intents and purposes, it is at least functional. They can then do a major patch or second deployment in like Aug/Sept to fix any minor tweaks and major changes. it doesnt need to be pushed back months because 100+ players decide its bad. Keeping in mind 100 out of 60,000 is still not enough to warrant a major roll back. Besides, of that 60K only about 10% ever come onto the forums. So really the only way to confirm it is to put it live and see the reaction. It takes time to adjust. |
Vakasho Umi Kenshar
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 16:55:00 -
[277] - Quote
Logix42 wrote:As an update CCP has posted in the test server feedback thread about the auto-recall CCP Paradox wrote:We have been discussing the point so far, and we are making one change.
- Deactivating probes will not cause them to auto-recall. (When jumping, or logging off etc)
We're still reading up and discussing other points however. Source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3106300#post3106300
A step in the right direction. Not enough, but a step nonetheless.
I wouldn't mind seeing the auto-recall kept just in case of logging off, as an edge case (sucks to be stranded because ISP failed/WiFi down/PC died/neighbour cut the cable while gardening...), but people should have a spare set of probes in their cargo anyway.
|
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:11:00 -
[278] - Quote
Octoven wrote:
Keep grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space? Hell no, why should miners in one area be safer then those not there? Why should person A be in a grav site and have marginal safety while person B in the same system in a standard belt have no safety? This is NOT balanced, im glad they are removing them from sigs to anoms.
It's currently balanced because ALL warp-able asteroid belts exist within K-space and you can see who is in local also, if you ever noticed, you won't find many mining barges mining the regular belts in low-sec- there's a good reason for this. At any rate, explorers who put in the time to locate grav sites using probes SHOULD be rewarded with being able to find a site that can't easily be accessible without the use of probes. I'm guessing you don't do much mining yourself. If you are concerned you won't get an easy gank, just watch some videos of advanced combat scanning and you will learn how, with practice, you can jump in on anyone but the most cautious of mining ships. |
Wyrm Drake
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:13:00 -
[279] - Quote
I'm getting tired of all this noob simplification. I want a game where if you die, that's it! You start over from square 1. New character etc. Then, when you see someone with, say, over 50mil SPs, you know they have achieved something and they are not to be messed with. |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
88
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 17:39:00 -
[280] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Kitanga wrote:the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back. all we want:
- user defined launch pattern(s)
- bring back Deep Space Probes
- remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
- keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
- do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
- do not magically recall probes
- allow the launch of one probe
- keep Grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space
Sooo essentially you want to just say **** all the changes lets keep the game how it is till December? [list] User defined launch patterns? Yeah lets do that bring back Deep Space Probes? To be honest I never really use them so I dont really care. remove the new probe mods? No, its nice to give scanning ships a place holder for those midslots keep your overlay in but do not force us? As I recall, you are not FORCED to use the damn thing, it cycles one freaking time, oh my save me from this one cycle CCP >.> do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it? Again, its a one cycle brief look...this doesnt keep them there so to be honest id rather see it stay. do not magically recall probes? I agree with you here, that should be removed. Allow the launch of one probe? This is already in effect. You need to split your stack of probes to whatever you normally use 1-8 and drag and drop it into the launcher. You can launch as few as 1 or as many as 8, it isn't very efficient but its a temp fix. Keep grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space? Hell no, why should miners in one area be safer then those not there? Why should person A be in a grav site and have marginal safety while person B in the same system in a standard belt have no safety? This is NOT balanced, im glad they are removing them from sigs to anoms. I would add to that last statement though that if you wanted to give wh miners a fighting chance at least, the proper solution would be to wait to do the first system scan after you enter the system. You could restrict the scan from doing its intial scan until the ship decloaks. That way at least they show on dscan first before they can find you. If you are out of dscan range...well you should be using a scout alt anyway. You have nothing else to do while mining, so may as well hit dscan on two different characters. Odyssey is in a 200% better shape then it was when first deployed on sisi. There are some kinks to iron out but for all intents and purposes, it is at least functional. They can then do a major patch or second deployment in like Aug/Sept to fix any minor tweaks and major changes. it doesnt need to be pushed back months because 100+ players decide its bad. Keeping in mind 100 out of 60,000 is still not enough to warrant a major roll back. Besides, of that 60K only about 10% ever come onto the forums. So really the only way to confirm it is to put it live and see the reaction. It takes time to adjust.
seems like you agree with me on all points except the last. and you are wrong there, if the miner takes the time to probe out the site then he should be rewarded with a slight margin of safety. and this is coming from a pirate who kills any miner i see. i prefer a challenge in hunting with probes instead of just turning on the overlay... i just don't get how CCP does not see it this way... this grav site change of theirs should be for highsec only. |
|
Eric Darmazaf
Magnum Research Insidious Consequences
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:02:00 -
[281] - Quote
Just as I switched off CQ when it was released I will be switching of scanning (well not doing any) once Odyssey hits the server. I will find something better to do with my time in EVE. |
Galileo Ohaya
Tortuga Coalition 102
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:10:00 -
[282] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back. all we want:
- user defined launch pattern(s)
- bring back Deep Space Probes
- remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
- keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
- do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
- do not magically recall probes
- allow the launch of one probe
- keep Grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space
I agree with everything here. Why did I bother to train up scanning skills to use DSP or more probes just to have those skills given away through the "easy button"?
Grav sites as anoms is a truly horrible idea . |
Equimanthorn
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:25:00 -
[283] - Quote
This!!
DigDoug wrote:A LETTER TO THE DEVELOPERS OF EVE
Lets take a walk down memory lane, o forgetful developers of Eve. BEHOLD!
A LETTER TO THE FOLLOWERS OF EVE 05.10.2011 17:29 By CCP Hellmar
Dear Followers of EVE Online,
The past few months have been very humbling for me. IGÇÖve done much soul searching, and what follows is my sincere effort to clear the air with all of you. Please bear with me as I find my way through.
The estrangement from CCP that many of you have been feeling of late is my fault, and for that I am truly sorry. There are many contributing factors, but in the end it is I who must shoulder the responsibility for much of what has happened. In short, my zeal for pushing EVE to her true potential made me lose sight of doing the simple things right. I was impatient when I should have been cautious, defiant when I should have been conciliatory and arrogant when I should have been humble....
..... Somewhere along the way, I began taking success for granted. As hubris set in, I became less inclined to listen to pleas for caution. Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans. Mistakes, even when they were acknowledged, often went unanalyzed, leaving the door open for them to be repeated.
You have spoken, loudly and clearly, with your words and with your actions. And there were definitely moments in recent history when I wish I would have listened more and taken a different path.
I was wrong and I admit it.
In the interest of time I'll just cut that off right there, because if you're capable of getting the point it'll be enough.
Stop ignoring us. Address the many repeated concerns voiced in not only this thread but since this feature set was added to the test server.
Don't pick out the one or two positive posts that you made with your alts just to generate the appearance that this is some kind of dynamic exchange of information.
We pay you for this game. We deserve to be treated like we matter. You need to respond to the CRITICISM of this feature set, you need to do it now and you need to LISTEN to us before you put these changes into effect on the live server.
|
Galileo Ohaya
Tortuga Coalition 102
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:36:00 -
[284] - Quote
Zorok wrote:Octoven wrote:
Keep grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space? Hell no, why should miners in one area be safer then those not there? Why should person A be in a grav site and have marginal safety while person B in the same system in a standard belt have no safety? This is NOT balanced, im glad they are removing them from sigs to anoms. It's currently balanced because ALL warp-able asteroid belts exist within K-space and you can see who is in local also, if you ever noticed, you won't find many mining barges mining the regular belts in low-sec- there's a good reason for this. At any rate, explorers who put in the time to locate grav sites using probes SHOULD be rewarded with being able to find a site that can't easily be accessible without the use of probes. I'm guessing you don't do much mining yourself. If you are concerned you won't get an easy gank, just watch some videos of advanced combat scanning and you will learn how, with practice, you can jump in on anyone but the most cautious of mining ships.
Exactly! This proposed change kills wh mining completely. I'm guessing that is CCPs intention. There are plenty of hisec asteroid belts available, the occasional Grav site is a reward for miners who put in the time to scan them down. No longer.
If CCP plans on getting rid of all static asteroid belts, much as they are doing with ice belts, then they should just come clean and admit it. |
Dullmeyr Prodomo
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 18:57:00 -
[285] - Quote
Most disappointing devblog i have read in a long time. CCP should seriously consider to postpone the implementation of this ill-conceived Probe Scanning System.
|
Wyrm Drake
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 19:10:00 -
[286] - Quote
Greed kills niche markets. Sad. |
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 19:25:00 -
[287] - Quote
William Sedgwick Vyvorant wrote:Ptah of Thebes wrote:I find it hilarious that some people are complaining about Eve not being Sci-Fi and this update ruining their immersion. This is obviously because Eve already contains Newtonian physics, right? And projectile (to include Hybrids as well) weapons systems that travel up to hundreds of kilometers in an instant, barring of course missiles. Super-light speed is also scientifically possible.
In other words, you already suspend your disbelief for core aspects of the game. Please shut up about your "immersion" being the excuse for a change and give feedback based on game theory, player experience, balance, or something equally as valuable. The thing with Sci-Fi and the suspension of disbelief is that a consistency within a universe is key. For probes auto recalling my issue would be that if my probes can instantly appear in my cargo hold when I jump a gate 100AU from where the probes were dropped why don't my probes move everywhere instantly, why is there a a transit time before they start scanning? It doesn't make sense and is needless hand holding, at the moment if you lose your probes you learn to remember to recall them, now there's going to be no consequence to someone forgetting. Maybe CCP meant to make these changes to drones but selected probes.
|
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
220
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 19:37:00 -
[288] - Quote
BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together.
You are supposed to make enough profit by mining to hire support fleet. After they kill all the bots, you probably will. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
220
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 19:44:00 -
[289] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back. all we want:
- user defined launch pattern(s)
- bring back Deep Space Probes
- remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
- keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
- do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
- do not magically recall probes
- allow the launch of one probe
- keep Grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space
As a member of the player base I feel obligated to point out that I am very happy with these changes, and CCP should listen to ME instead of YOU. |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 19:44:00 -
[290] - Quote
Chribba wrote:It's getting closer...
What?!? That Touborg is out of a job? Or?
|
|
Wyrm Drake
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 19:58:00 -
[291] - Quote
Sissy Fuzz wrote:Chribba wrote:It's getting closer... What?!? That Touborg is out of a job? Or?
.. until Chribba quits Eve? |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:03:00 -
[292] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Kitanga wrote:the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back. all we want:
- user defined launch pattern(s)
- bring back Deep Space Probes
- remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
- keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
- do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
- do not magically recall probes
- allow the launch of one probe
- keep Grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space
As a member of the player base I feel obligated to point out that I am very happy with these changes, and CCP should listen to ME instead of YOU.
you and maybe a dozen others. but don't worry, i have no doubt that you will get all you want. |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
86
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:06:00 -
[293] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.
Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.
But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.
So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE?
Except with this change, I can jump into a WH, remain cloaked, hit the scan button, locate all the Anoms and Grav Sites and warp to each site.
There is no warning, there is no heads up, its just an instant loss. Please explain how that is fair or balanced? |
Eru GoEller
State War Academy Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:12:00 -
[294] - Quote
Galileo Ohaya wrote:Zorok wrote:Octoven wrote:
Keep grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space? Hell no, why should miners in one area be safer then those not there? Why should person A be in a grav site and have marginal safety while person B in the same system in a standard belt have no safety? This is NOT balanced, im glad they are removing them from sigs to anoms. It's currently balanced because ALL warp-able asteroid belts exist within K-space and you can see who is in local also, if you ever noticed, you won't find many mining barges mining the regular belts in low-sec- there's a good reason for this. At any rate, explorers who put in the time to locate grav sites using probes SHOULD be rewarded with being able to find a site that can't easily be accessible without the use of probes. I'm guessing you don't do much mining yourself. If you are concerned you won't get an easy gank, just watch some videos of advanced combat scanning and you will learn how, with practice, you can jump in on anyone but the most cautious of mining ships. Exactly! This proposed change kills wh mining completely. I'm guessing that is CCPs intention. There are plenty of hisec asteroid belts available, the occasional Grav site is a reward for miners who put in the time to scan them down. No longer. If CCP plans on getting rid of all static asteroid belts, much as they are doing with ice belts, then they should just come clean and admit it. Some times ago there was this talk that there was to much ABC mining going on in w-space and it should be removed. Guess we have the answer now, why it wasn't removed at that time. |
Zyrbalax III
Core World Imperium
83
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:12:00 -
[295] - Quote
Hey CCP
RESPOND goddammit, we are reading your silence as a very large "FU playerbase we don't give a sh!t about your opinions."
I feel there's a monument in Jita in need of some serious (and unfriendly) atention.
Anyone care to join me? |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
86
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:18:00 -
[296] - Quote
CCP is the new SOE. (Check SWG and see where "making things easier" got them).
Scanning and the mining changes are complete crap. There is no balance when I can jump into a WH system, scan down the anoms without launching a prob while cloaked and grab an unsuspecting miner without warning.
Null Sec has Local Chat alerting the locals the minute someone comes into the system.
Scanning should be challenging - that is the idea. The sites you are scanning down are worth more than typical sites. |
Blackfin Arbosa
Omni Galactic Resource Excavation Inc. Tri-Star Galactic Industries
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:20:00 -
[297] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere.
Cloaked ships don't show on DScan, but combat scanner probes do. Now there is no need, just use new system scan and harvest miner tears |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew R.E.P.O.
86
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 20:29:00 -
[298] - Quote
Blackfin Arbosa wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere. Cloaked ships don't show on DScan, but combat scanner probes do. Now there is no need, just use new system scan and harvest miner tears
This is what I have been talking about - any cloaked ships can come harvest miners without the slightest warning. There is no risk vs reward there. It's just plain suicide. I can just bounce around in my stealth and pop miners in every system I enter.
|
Blackfin Arbosa
Omni Galactic Resource Excavation Inc. Tri-Star Galactic Industries
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:01:00 -
[299] - Quote
Kitanga wrote:Roime wrote:Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?
yes. we have entered the realm of magic now. apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming. we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks.
This is very disappointing. I don't like magic mixed with my science. |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:05:00 -
[300] - Quote
"The team took part in the theme-conception work overseen by CCP Seagull earlier in the year."
So it is a theme park? Not a sandbox. I guess most of us knew by now.
Yes. Another dumb dumbing down of EVE. Seemingly to cater to those large numbers of people who ragequit after losing probes - or the retards who can not (be arsed to) read or do simple calculation. The false underlying notion being that new players are also not very intelligent players.
Maximising revenue InstaSuccess is the new value proposition - gaming designed for a new generation of players who are unable to deal with obstacles of any kind? Who ragequit and go play WoT if anything is not instant and easy. Is that it? All the while Mr. ****-Yeah-We-Have-250000-People-With-Bounties-On-Them-In-EVE Touborg spots "interesting" social dynamics amongst the players pitted in his little private anthropology project that EVE has become.
This is serious folks, EVE is going down. It is becoming more and more like podge with every 'expansion'. Because nothing is really expanding - things are just being messed up.
On the contrary, the latitude for brains and problem solving, for true achievement by coping and making an actual effort is being rooted out bit by bit as what seems to be the perceived obstacle for a higher subscriber growth rate/retention ratio.
EVE is getting easy and pretty. Like a Hong Kong hooker. |
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Apolune Yassavi
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:06:00 -
[301] - Quote
Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
So typical of CCP. Pro-PVP and Anti Industrialist.
WeGÇÖll this is what will probably happen. Miners will stop mining or will keep dying and eventually quit. Mineral Prices will go up resulting in ships and mods to be more expensive and then because of this PVP'ers will stop playing because of the increasing costs.
I thought the idea was to bring mineral prices down not increase them.
Good Job CCP |
Patrick Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:16:00 -
[302] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
As a member of the player base I feel obligated to point out that I am very happy with these changes, and CCP should listen to ME instead of YOU.
why?, i say that the devs listen to those who have valid points and present an arguement, rather than your all is good, listen to me not anyone else. |
Logit Probit
Tristar Interstellar Trading Services Tri-Star Galactic Industries
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:35:00 -
[303] - Quote
Very disappointed in the expansion.....
Mini-game in hacking....why not just copy EQ and have a version of Tetris have all our attention.
Grav Sites now anamolies.....whatever buffs you gave to null sec ores....forget them, this effectively cut their throats of them, dragged them over razorblades, saut+¬ them in rubbing alcohol, lit them on fire, put out the flames with acid, hacked them into pieces, and buried the ashes in manure. In null sec you don't mine in the belts because that little red guy cloaked up could be there...now sometimes he could have a probe launcher fit and find you anyways, but at least he had to work at it. If you really want to do this, then at least add in some way to scan down cloaky campers....your taking away DSP, why not change them into that...probes that can scan down cloaked ships....oh but make them undetectable too....cause you know....probes don't do any damage...just like afk cloaky guys. At least now to combat them the only real counter is a bubble hung at the beacon point with a lot of drones or cans around it......which has been deemed by CCP as an exploit.
The scanning changes I have mixed feelings on....I like the option to launch all probes at once, but not the requirement. The removal of DSP I don't like, nor do I like the termination of the probe market. The auto-reclaim of probes after expired, hate it. The probes starting out at the sun as an initial scan spot....hate it.
I really think a lot of these changes were rushed. I would rather see a well thought out expansion put out then....oh lets change everything and see how it works, then when we realize its busted and shelf the fixes for years. There are a lot of things currently in game right now that we have been screaming for CCP to fix that fall on deaf ears....are these changes going to be something else we add to the list?
Design the changes.....Test it yourselves.....Rework it....Test it again.....Put it on the Test server.....let the players test it.....get the feedback....fix the problems.....put it back on test server.....if it works....then move it to the Main Server. Its a long process, but it works.
|
Blackfin Arbosa
Omni Galactic Resource Excavation Inc. Tri-Star Galactic Industries
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:44:00 -
[304] - Quote
Belshazzar Babylon wrote:CCP what are you doing?????? Why not just put Grav sites on the overview now. If someone can't be bothered to scan a site why should they be able to get the better ore? You are going to completely kill mining in WH's and Low Sec. How can a couple of miners in a WH with no local possibly catch a cloaky coming in that can warp right to them?
Did nobody think about this or did CCP think miners should not have a chance?
Its pretty evident that CCP hates miners. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
105
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:45:00 -
[305] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:Paula Uta wrote: So you want more people into exploration since it give more emergent gameplay so you are making it as shallow nad boring as missions !! Congratulations on your mastery of logic.
How so? They removed the tedious mechanics of probing like putting probes in formation one probe at a time. They are replacing the predictable waves of NPC to kill for puzzle games. I don't see how it makes exploring shallow and boring. The scanning mods might be OP and the automatic recall of probes might be unnecessary. I don't think it's a bead deal; it makes scanning easier but certainly not shallow or boring. I understand why miner would be butthurt about their gravs... But explorers should rejoice.
No, you still need to put your probes in formation one at-a-time, just like now. You get two mostly useless pre-made formations and you will always launch a set number of probes, regardless of how many you actually want for your formation. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
105
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:46:00 -
[306] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kuetlzelcoatl wrote:I'm amazed how often the "dumbing down Eve" card is pulled when people don't like changes. Its becoming as bad as "crying wolf."
Automatically recalling probes whenever docking or jumping isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to launch all probes in the launcher up to a maximum of 8 even if we just wanted to launch one isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing us to start in one of two preset configurations isn't dumbing the game down? Forcing the initial position of the probes (on the map) at the sun isn't dumbing the game down (and doesn't represent a huge nerf to combat probing)?
Woah... wait... what? Probes are being forced to the sun on deployment? This is crazy... Standard procedure for coming through a new WH is to drop 1 probe and cloak up.... This new "stuff" will force me to manualy reposition the probe to my current map location to do a simple scan...
It will also mess up strategic placement of probes, such as launching them out of d-scan range of other players to give you time to use your d-scan to find their general area, then move your probes and in one scan pinpoint them for warping.
WTF CCP, do you not know how exploration works in this game? |
Blackfin Arbosa
Omni Galactic Resource Excavation Inc. Tri-Star Galactic Industries
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:49:00 -
[307] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Lorna Sicling wrote:Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them. So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore. On the plus side, as a nullsec miner you don't need to scan down the sites and then reship to a barge or exhumer. And back again after the current set is depleted. And.. aren't you docking up when you see Neuts in system on Local or your corp/alliance Intel channel?
Not having to scan them, then why make them anoms just make them regular belts. |
Draconus Lofwyr
EntroPrelatial Industria EntroPraetorian Aegis
57
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:49:00 -
[308] - Quote
Logit Probit wrote:Very disappointed in the expansion.....
Design the changes.....Test it yourselves.....Rework it....Test it again.....Put it on the Test server.....let the players test it.....get the feedback....fix the problems.....put it back on test server.....if it works....then move it to the Main Server. Its a long process, but it works.
unfortunetlly, this ideal went out the door with the advent of scrumm/agile development. now its "crunch, crunch. is it ready yet? no, ship it anyway, we may patch it later. release date is more important than functional features anyway, at least now we can get a press release out and the creditors will be happy"
SISI is now more of a limited press release, that became obvious when the rules changed because "they didnt have the time to deal with SISI" in other words, here, look nice shiny. while we do the real work. we know better than you so just send us money and do as your told.
its all getting to the point of churn, as long as the gain more new users and dusties spend more than we loose per quarter, the banks and creditors are happy. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
516
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:51:00 -
[309] - Quote
Lolmer wrote:It will also mess up strategic placement of probes, such as launching them out of d-scan range of other players to give you time to use your d-scan to find their general area, then move your probes and in one scan pinpoint them for warping.
WTF CCP, do you not know how exploration works in this game?
Actually it won't, because the placement at sun is exactly the same as if you'd dragged them there yourself: they don't actually warp there until you hit the scan button. When you launch the probes, they're still right by your ship.
The only issues I can see with this are, that "your probes aren't really there--yet" might be a confusing bit of information for the new players that this feature is supposed to cater to, and, that the need to drag the probes back to where your ship is will be an additional PITA for combat scanners. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 21:54:00 -
[310] - Quote
Quote:So a number of CSM8 members talked this issue out this week trying to decide who was going to do what. For myself, I'm never going to be much of an EVE-O forum guy. Fortunately, Malcanis is and he's more than happy to be our primary EVE-O forums guy. He and other people on CSM8 that are good at the EVE-O forums are pointing the rest of us at particularly good threads and posts. -- http://jestertrek.blogspot.ru/2013/05/csm8-status-report-week-three.html
Hm, these people that are "good" with the EVE-O forums seem to be missing from this discussion. CSM8 a great success!1!
Quote:Actually it won't, because the placement at sun is exactly the same as if you'd dragged them there yourself: they don't actually warp there until you hit the scan button. When you launch the probes, they're still right by your ship.
Sounds an awfully lot like a bug that they couldn't fix and decided to leave in =P |
|
Galileo Ohaya
Tortuga Coalition 102
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 22:00:00 -
[311] - Quote
Sassums wrote:CCP is the new SOE. (Check SWG and see where "making things easier" got them).
Scanning and the mining changes are complete crap. There is no balance when I can jump into a WH system, scan down the anoms without launching a prob while cloaked and grab an unsuspecting miner without warning.
Null Sec has Local Chat alerting the locals the minute someone comes into the system.
Scanning should be challenging - that is the idea. The sites you are scanning down are worth more than typical sites.
I mine in our WH when we have a decent grav site. It is a risky proposition unless you spam ds every 5 seconds (which I do). It is a risk I'm willing to take for the rewards of mining large rocks that can't be found in hisec.
However, I'll be moving my exhumers out of the wh as soon as odyssey goes live. Someone jumps into the wh, instantly sees a grav site in system and a mining barge and then the mining barge it toast. I'd enjoy running around in my SB doing just that, but for the fact that there won't be any other miners in WHs either.
Stupid move on CCPs part unless they are trying to drive all miners out of wh's.
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
357
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 22:03:00 -
[312] - Quote
Galileo Ohaya wrote:Sassums wrote:CCP is the new SOE. (Check SWG and see where "making things easier" got them).
Scanning and the mining changes are complete crap. There is no balance when I can jump into a WH system, scan down the anoms without launching a prob while cloaked and grab an unsuspecting miner without warning.
Null Sec has Local Chat alerting the locals the minute someone comes into the system.
Scanning should be challenging - that is the idea. The sites you are scanning down are worth more than typical sites. I mine in our WH when we have a decent grav site. It is a risky proposition unless you spam ds every 5 seconds (which I do). It is a risk I'm willing to take for the rewards of mining large rocks that can't be found in hisec. However, I'll be moving my exhumers out of the wh as soon as odyssey goes live. Someone jumps into the wh, instantly sees a grav site in system and a mining barge and then the mining barge it toast. I'd enjoy running around in my SB doing just that, but for the fact that there won't be any other miners in WHs either. Stupid move on CCPs part unless they are trying to drive all miners out of wh's.
I just moved my exhumers out of our hole today. Only cheap expendable barges are left. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group The Periphery
133
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 22:14:00 -
[313] - Quote
I can not believe how badly you have fubared this, I just opened this dev blog with such optimism only to leave feeling like we are back at Incarna as far as the devs understanding what the current players want.
If you need a decent game designer, I work cheap and am willing to relocate.
How could you not understand why we might leave probes in space? How could you not understand why we might accidentally leave probes in space? How HOW how could you not understand what a bad idea moving grav sites in to anomalies is?
You have taken a large part of the flavor out of wormholes by making people unable to get lost, its pretty short sighted.
I'm done with this thread, I see you are only responding to the most inane of questions and ignoring any critisizim, also GG on getting your CSM pet in here to try and help whitewash this mess, its cute.
|
Zane Ziebold
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 22:31:00 -
[314] - Quote
Zane Ziebold wrote:Quote: As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
I still want to know why you are doing this it seams my post on the test server did not get an answer. I still think this is going to hurt more than it helps. PLEASE change this back to the way it was, or at least tell us why this is happening. If scanning is going to be easier then they should be able to find then.
I still want to know why. |
Dmitri Ronuken
ReStore of Reset The Superpowers
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 22:57:00 -
[315] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:Galileo Ohaya wrote:Sassums wrote:CCP is the new SOE. (Check SWG and see where "making things easier" got them).
Scanning and the mining changes are complete crap. There is no balance when I can jump into a WH system, scan down the anoms without launching a prob while cloaked and grab an unsuspecting miner without warning.
Null Sec has Local Chat alerting the locals the minute someone comes into the system.
Scanning should be challenging - that is the idea. The sites you are scanning down are worth more than typical sites. I mine in our WH when we have a decent grav site. It is a risky proposition unless you spam ds every 5 seconds (which I do). It is a risk I'm willing to take for the rewards of mining large rocks that can't be found in hisec. However, I'll be moving my exhumers out of the wh as soon as odyssey goes live. Someone jumps into the wh, instantly sees a grav site in system and a mining barge and then the mining barge it toast. I'd enjoy running around in my SB doing just that, but for the fact that there won't be any other miners in WHs either. Stupid move on CCPs part unless they are trying to drive all miners out of wh's. I just moved my exhumers out of our hole today. Only cheap expendable barges are left.
I did an experiment last night. Previously, I've gone mining in lowsec for Gneiss and Spodumain/Crokite signatures. The result is about 200k m3, a number of close calls with probes from miner hunters, even met a few other miners and shared our fits for best survival chances, all while a half dozen people were coming in and out of local. Then last night, I tried mining the regular belts in the same system. There was only one person in local, and the second person to enter warped to me within seconds of entering. It appears they warped to the belt entrance instead of me, and that combined with my own paranoia pressing 'warp' when they entered local was probably the only reason I got out. I only got 4000 m3 of ore, in a system with only one other player.
So, I see two options now.
1) "Clandestine" mining (hope they don't find you, and flee when they do) in lowsec will only be possible in completely empty systems, and in wormholes only if the entrance wormholes can be monitored through whatever method. Either way, it means mining can only happen in very tiny bits of time, with long stretches of waiting for the system to clear or find another place to mine.
2) Defended mining (either having other PvP players provide escort standing by, or have a combat ship docked that you warp your barge to and switch ships) will be the only way to *keep* mining, but it too will still be mining in tiny time chunks with large and frequent periods of combat or waiting. And being actively defended will only provide a deterrent to their current ship, and greater incentive to bring back bigger and more ships.
Either way, no matter how much they buff lowsec/wh ores, highsec mining becomes much more profitable per hour because that's the only place outside of a completely empty system where miners will have enough time mining vs. fleeing/fighting to get an income, regardless of risk. |
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 23:46:00 -
[316] - Quote
Could it be the exploration changes are meant to enrage enough players, thus cause Odyssey release delay for adding exploration fixes [read as "break" so CCP can be hero when they fix what they broke], as well as allow extra time to jam more changes in the release of Odyssey? i.e. ccp will say of Odyssey "Planned exploration changes had to be redesigned at the last minute due to player feedback, so in order to not lose any more player-base we pushed back Odyssey release to meet their demands."
This situation is avoidable and almost laughable. Make the game how players want it, or they will leave. Another option is making the game how CCP wants but lacking players since they all got fed up with CCP's bulls*** and lies.
I played wow for years, but I left after Blizzard's pandering and changing too many things about the game that had drawn me to play in the first place. I enjoyed the challenge of eve, but new content seems to be lacking for exploration and mining. Re-wrapping/re-gifting is all that is happening here. Could it be CCP has emptied the idea box for new eve content? |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
92
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 00:13:00 -
[317] - Quote
2 bugs i found: 1- concerning the 'user defined' launch pattern that you can setup, and then see reformed after you relaunch from clicking the mod; well, if you log out and then back in the 'user defined' launch pattern you defined the last time you were logged in is not remembered. 2- if you launch probes and then recall without scanning, they never finish recalling.
so i did my QA work for the day. now in return, please listen to the constructive feed back in this thread and restore all that is currently on TQ with some simple and smart enhancements (all already laid out many times over). |
Pashino
Venice Academy
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 01:01:00 -
[318] - Quote
If the goal is, as stated, to make exploration as easy to get started in as mining and mission running; then the listed changes to scanning are not consistent. If probes will now automatically jump back into your bay when you scurry away, then why not mining/combat drones in mining and missions? Lack of consistency in behavior, not to mention a huge whack to the 'realism' of the game(as well as a nerf to the market). If you feel you *must* safeguard newbies from the horrors of forgetting their probes, limit the safeguarding to a pop-up message alerting the operator they are about to warp away w/o their probes and give them a chance to collect them before warping. Same for drones , for consistency in the Eve universe.
As for having transient ore belts being found w/o the need for probes, that is beyond stupid, and a game changer that will likely alter the game dynamics in ways even your economists cannot project. |
Mofo Keikira
Crushed Ambitions
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 01:43:00 -
[319] - Quote
This needs more thought and longer period for input from users. |
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 02:27:00 -
[320] - Quote
OK CCP, now to details. Please explain how should the following make sense to an intelligent player.
Launching all probes at once. Currently when I need to launch 1 probe I launch one probe. What you offer is "launch 8 probes then select 7 of them in the window, press right mouse button and recover them". Or I need to limit somehow the number of probes in the launcher, but of course there is no option "load X probes to the launcher". How does it make sense to you?
Pre-set formations You're trying to convince us that they are created for new players and experienced players can get advantage by using their own formations. In reality you force everyone to use your formations because in most cases rearranging all the probes will take much more time than you win while scanning down even 10 signatures. Storing the last used formation doesn't cut it because you can't use one for everything.
Recall and expire options You're not only taking out a touching part of gameplay when somebody forgets his probes + market influence of this. Also you're removing possibility to leave probes in some definite position in the system and get tactical advantage by reconnecting to them on re-entering.
Scan result list While making it more shiny you failed to preserve very important usability feature - column resizing. Also rows are higher now. In total it makes this list useless in a small window and I don't have much more space for it on my small screen.
Skill changes Why don't you half all the bonuses on gunnery support skills and add them to Gunnery skill instead? Doesn't make sense you say? Also reminding that Astrometric Rangefinding is rank 8 skill that's going to give 5% bonus per level. In scanning that's negligible.
New modules Short story: don't add them. Why would anyone buy a Virtue set or train Astrometric Rangefinding to level 5 after you introduce them? Just fit 4 T1 scan strength amplifiers on your buzzard and you can scan everything without investing months in skill training and billions in implants.
Deep Space Probes In PvE they are mostly used to get an overview of signatures in the system and filter uninteresting ones. This is essential because people are usually interested in some specific content not in all the loads of useless things you've put in space. But instead of improving the content or making it easier to find what I like you're making the process much more tedious.
Maybe I would change my opinion if you provided some reasoning behind this changes. But you give none and looks like the only reason is "we need to push something to new release because we're paid for it and nobody in CCP cares about quality". |
|
Olari Vanderfall
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
99
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 04:03:00 -
[321] - Quote
CCP sure is good at creating drama.
I raged in the other thread, so I'll offer what I think now.
Likes:
Ability to set my own formation and it remembers it
When you drop probes not in one of the preset formations all 8 are on top of each other so they are easier to setup You can leave probes behind if you choose
Ability to drag entire group with 1 box Ability to resize by dragging and probes move to center Green dots for anoms (yes! I can finally see)
Dislikes: Inability to separate 2 probe groups to move independently Not able to save multiple formations No green or yellow dots for sigs (hate the hard to see triangles) If you have different probe sizes, when you rescale to the smallest probe size, the larger becomes equal to the smallest (Ie: 4/4 probe arrangement at 1.0/0.25 go to 0.25/0.25 if you drag to the minimum size) This breaks the arrangement.
Unsure: Don't know how the cosmic signatures will display on screen/ in scanner (this seems to be a work in progress) With the current build the red spheres displayed give a general idea of where the sig is located.
Cool possibilities: Radial menu on the warp to button in scanner allowing you to choose your warp to distance Allow sigs you scan down @ 100% to be warpable to everyone in fleet
Things have come a long way from the original implementation so keep up the good work. |
Strom Crendraven
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 04:46:00 -
[322] - Quote
Sissy Fuzz wrote:"The team took part in the theme-conception work overseen by CCP Seagull earlier in the year." So it is a theme park? Not a sandbox. I guess most of us knew by now. Yes. Another dumb dumbing down of EVE. Seemingly to cater to those large numbers of people who ragequit after losing probes - or the retards who can not (be arsed to) read or do simple calculation. The false underlying notion being that new players are also not very intelligent players. Maximising revenue InstaSuccess is the new value proposition - gaming designed for a new generation of players who are unable to deal with obstacles of any kind? Who ragequit and go play WoT if anything is not instant and easy. Is that it? All the while Mr. ****-Yeah-We-Have-250000-People-With-Bounties-On-Them-In-EVE Touborg spots "interesting" social dynamics amongst the players pitted in his little private anthropology project that EVE has become. This is serious folks, EVE is going down. It is becoming more and more like podge with every 'expansion'. Because nothing is really expanding - things are just being messed up. On the contrary, the latitude for brains and problem solving, for true achievement by coping and making an actual effort is being rooted out bit by bit as what seems to be the perceived obstacle for a higher subscriber growth rate/retention ratio. EVE is getting easy and pretty. Like a Hong Kong hooker.
Funny thing is that CCP obviously hasn't done the market research to know that this new player base of 13 year olds with A.D.D. they are trying to bring in and pander too has a very short attention span. Sure, make eve as easy as some facebook game and your initial subscription base will rise but as soon as the new Battlefield 8 or World of Tanks 12 comes out they will be gone. That is why free to play games are so damn poular, the "instant gratification" crowd gets bored very quickly and looks for new ways to get their excitement fix. The reason I kept playing Eve after I first tried it is that it is hard and takes some intelligence and effort just to survive, let alone the time and planning that must be done to be successful. I spent countless hours searching the internet (even after the tutorials) to learn every aspect of Eve I use and it was time consuming and difficult just as it should be. This isnt just some space FPS, its a game designed on an alternate universe where just as in RL people should have to work hard, learn, fail, learn, fail some more, learn some more, and eventually through a lot of hard work and dedication be able to look down and say "I am better than you because I worked at it, that's why I can do more and fly better ships". It SHOULD NOT be work hard, CCP fozzie f***s over what you worked hard to get, work harder, CCP fozzie f***s over what you worked harder to get and so on. If the instant gratification crowd (all too indicative of todays society where everybody wants everything handed to them with little or no actual effort) cant handle it, let them leave. Why should the people who have put in the time, blood, sweat and tears to get good at this game and actually learn it be the ones who get screwed with every "expansion" at the expense of making it easier for new players. Tell you what CCP one or two more "easy mode" features and I might just have to go start playing Yo-ville for a challenge. Enough for my rant, i was gonna stay out of this forum post except to call that CCP lackey Chitsa a moron as i did in an earlier post but my rage finally got the best of me, i know CCP wont bother to read or consider any of our opinions so its all just a waste of time. One thing I will say is that based on this expansion as a whole I can already no longer afford to fuel my POS that I worked so hard and long to get into and the changes to scanning, mining sites, ice belts, hacking sites not to mention the endless nerfing and weapons type changes of the ships i worked hard to fly have broken the camels back. If the changes in this expansion go through as planned (hope by some crazy chance CCP actually reads this) I will unsub 2 of my three accounts (and yes CCP I actually pay for them not PLEX them) and take down my POS. I know there are plenty of CCP fanboys who aren't smart enough or determined enough to play Eve as it is and I hope you all enjoy WoW in space because that's the way its headed, enjoy your useless bobbles and trinkets CCP gives you in one hand while knifing you in the back with the other. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
250
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 05:30:00 -
[323] - Quote
I re-read the blog and I honestly don't understand. Why even have expiration timers now? If probes don't get destroyed (boooooo) and they return to your cargo automatically, AND if you relaunch them they go back to their previous position automatically..... then...... uhmmm ???? Yeah. Whats the point of even having them expire or have a skill affect that timer? So you have to press the "F1" or whatever launcher key every 60 mins instead of 40 or whatever? Why not remove it? Not enough time?
P.S. Not saying you should remove the timer, I think the probes should be destroyed when timer expires but if you're going along this path, then I fail to see the logic of keeping the timer at all. |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
157
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 07:47:00 -
[324] - Quote
Strom Crendraven wrote:Sissy Fuzz wrote:"The team took part in the theme-conception work overseen by CCP Seagull earlier in the year." So it is a theme park? Not a sandbox. I guess most of us knew by now. Yes. Another dumb dumbing down of EVE. Seemingly to cater to those large numbers of people who ragequit after losing probes - or the retards who can not (be arsed to) read or do simple calculation. The false underlying notion being that new players are also not very intelligent players. Maximising revenue InstaSuccess is the new value proposition - gaming designed for a new generation of players who are unable to deal with obstacles of any kind? Who ragequit and go play WoT if anything is not instant and easy. Is that it? All the while Mr. ****-Yeah-We-Have-250000-People-With-Bounties-On-Them-In-EVE Touborg spots "interesting" social dynamics amongst the players pitted in his little private anthropology project that EVE has become. This is serious folks, EVE is going down. It is becoming more and more like podge with every 'expansion'. Because nothing is really expanding - things are just being messed up. On the contrary, the latitude for brains and problem solving, for true achievement by coping and making an actual effort is being rooted out bit by bit as what seems to be the perceived obstacle for a higher subscriber growth rate/retention ratio. EVE is getting easy and pretty. Like a Hong Kong hooker. Funny thing is that CCP obviously hasn't done the market research to know that this new player base of 13 year olds with A.D.D. they are trying to bring in and pander too has a very short attention span. Sure, make eve as easy as some facebook game and your initial subscription base will rise but as soon as the new Battlefield 8 or World of Tanks 12 comes out they will be gone. That is why free to play games are so damn poular, the "instant gratification" crowd gets bored very quickly and looks for new ways to get their excitement fix. The reason I kept playing Eve after I first tried it is that it is hard and takes some intelligence and effort just to survive, let alone the time and planning that must be done to be successful. I spent countless hours searching the internet (even after the tutorials) to learn every aspect of Eve I use and it was time consuming and difficult just as it should be. This isnt just some space FPS, its a game designed on an alternate universe where just as in RL people should have to work hard, learn, fail, learn, fail some more, learn some more, and eventually through a lot of hard work and dedication be able to look down and say "I am better than you because I worked at it, that's why I can do more and fly better ships". It SHOULD NOT be work hard, CCP fozzie f***s over what you worked hard to get, work harder, CCP fozzie f***s over what you worked harder to get and so on. If the instant gratification crowd (all too indicative of todays society where everybody wants everything handed to them with little or no actual effort) cant handle it, let them leave. Why should the people who have put in the time, blood, sweat and tears to get good at this game and actually learn it be the ones who get screwed with every "expansion" at the expense of making it easier for new players. Tell you what CCP one or two more "easy mode" features and I might just have to go start playing Yo-ville for a challenge. Enough for my rant, i was gonna stay out of this forum post except to call that CCP lackey Chitsa a moron as i did in an earlier post but my rage finally got the best of me, i know CCP wont bother to read or consider any of our opinions so its all just a waste of time. One thing I will say is that based on this expansion as a whole I can already no longer afford to fuel my POS that I worked so hard and long to get into and the changes to scanning, mining sites, ice belts, hacking sites not to mention the endless nerfing and weapons type changes of the ships i worked hard to fly have broken the camels back. If the changes in this expansion go through as planned (hope by some crazy chance CCP actually reads this) I will unsub 2 of my three accounts (and yes CCP I actually pay for them not PLEX them) and take down my POS. I know there are plenty of CCP fanboys who aren't smart enough or determined enough to play Eve as it is and I hope you all enjoy WoW in space because that's the way its headed, enjoy your useless bobbles and trinkets CCP gives you in one hand while knifing you in the back with the other.
A. This post will probably be cleaned up later for ranting, and B. In the future, could you please break your post into paragraphed points...no one likes reading a wall of text >.> |
Fromil
Austudy 10110001100111101000
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:31:00 -
[325] - Quote
Our corporation lives in a WH. We have several casual players who prefer to mine roids than partake in the more lucrative aspects of WH life. That has always been fine with us, as we're more a social entity rather than a hardcore corp - so we take all comers who fit into our eclectic culture. This change to grav sites to regular anoms is going to make WH mining untenable as we do not have local to alert people mining to a possible threat - cloaky t3s (the mainstay of WH exploration) will be able to warp in and gank our miners without any realistic chance of detection. We will lose members and any chance of the industrial benefits they bring.
Yes, we can focus more on our WH specific operations, but losing the members we have counted amongst our friends is not something I can let pass without comment. It seems to me that in an effort to hurt mining botters you are also hurting the most hardcore, risk-taking miners in the game - this is a nerf to the high-end caliber miners and needs to be reconsidered.
Please reconsider making WH grav sites into anoms. |
Strom Crendraven
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:17:00 -
[326] - Quote
Octoven wrote: A. This post will probably be cleaned up later for ranting, and B. In the future, could you please break your post into paragraphed points...no one likes reading a wall of text >.>
Fixed, happy? I have no problem reading a wall of text, its a forum not a college thesis. Then again i don't need text pauses to let my brain rest in between the words. You?
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
367
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:19:00 -
[327] - Quote
Strom Crendraven wrote:Octoven wrote: A. This post will probably be cleaned up later for ranting, and B. In the future, could you please break your post into paragraphed points...no one likes reading a wall of text >.> Fixed, happy? I have no problem reading a wall of text, its a forum not a college thesis. Then again i don't need text pauses to let my brain rest in between the words. You?
I don't need an automobile, a roof over my head, or delicious food either... but they sure are nice |
Strom Crendraven
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:32:00 -
[328] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:Strom Crendraven wrote:Octoven wrote: A. This post will probably be cleaned up later for ranting, and B. In the future, could you please break your post into paragraphed points...no one likes reading a wall of text >.> Fixed, happy? I have no problem reading a wall of text, its a forum not a college thesis. Then again i don't need text pauses to let my brain rest in between the words. You? I don't need an automobile, a roof over my head, or delicious food either... but they sure are nice
lol, good point sir I stand corrected. |
Lexmana
962
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:53:00 -
[329] - Quote
Alexander the Great wrote: Currently when I need to launch 1 probe I launch one probe. What you offer is "launch 8 probes then select 7 of them in the window, press right mouse button and recover them". Or I need to limit somehow the number of probes in the launcher, but of course there is no option "load X probes to the launcher". How does it make sense to you?
This one should be easy. Just unload the probes from your launcher and jettison all but one probe. Then reload the launcher and launch the single probe. And don't forget to loot the loot the can ... |
|
CCP Orion
C C P C C P Alliance
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 13:07:00 -
[330] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Alexander the Great wrote: Currently when I need to launch 1 probe I launch one probe. What you offer is "launch 8 probes then select 7 of them in the window, press right mouse button and recover them". Or I need to limit somehow the number of probes in the launcher, but of course there is no option "load X probes to the launcher". How does it make sense to you?
This one should be easy. Just unload the probes from your launcher and jettison all but one probe. Then reload the launcher and launch the single probe. And don't forget to loot the loot the can ... or you could shift drag one on the launcher... might be less wasteful. Senior Programmer - Team Super Friends EVE Online, CCP Games |
|
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
368
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 13:14:00 -
[331] - Quote
CCP Orion wrote:Lexmana wrote:Alexander the Great wrote: Currently when I need to launch 1 probe I launch one probe. What you offer is "launch 8 probes then select 7 of them in the window, press right mouse button and recover them". Or I need to limit somehow the number of probes in the launcher, but of course there is no option "load X probes to the launcher". How does it make sense to you?
This one should be easy. Just unload the probes from your launcher and jettison all but one probe. Then reload the launcher and launch the single probe. And don't forget to loot the loot the can ... or you could shift drag one on the launcher... might be less wasteful.
The problem with this is that you need to decloak to load/unload the launcher... |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
99
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 13:27:00 -
[332] - Quote
CCP Orion wrote: or you could shift drag one on the launcher... might be less wasteful.
i think we are looking for a programmatic solution, not a current implementation workaround..
how about adding a right click (on the mod) option with a choice to launch 1? or ctrl+mod click launches 1? something like that... |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 13:33:00 -
[333] - Quote
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun wrote:Quote:Actually it won't, because the placement at sun is exactly the same as if you'd dragged them there yourself: they don't actually warp there until you hit the scan button. When you launch the probes, they're still right by your ship. Sounds an awfully lot like a bug that they couldn't fix and decided to leave in =P Nah, sounds much more like catering to the Hisec guys who enter a system, drop a DSP, move it to the sun to scan, and warp off to the next system when they find nothing. Those guys have almost nothing in their daily experience that resembles the life of the WH dweller aside from dropping a probe and pushing scan.
[ Dear CCP, I whole heartedly recommend, even beg, that you have a couple of your guys look through the killboards, or your own stats, to find a few of the top PvP wormhole corps, the ones who lead the game in numbers of kills in wormhole space. Apply to and join those corps with unknown characters, and spend some time walking in our shoes. If you like hunting and stalking your prey, I think we would blow your minds. ]
If they really want to go through with the Probes-at-sun default placement, they should make a toggle. This is really trying to please two completely different sets of people, which is when you should introduce these kind of selectable options.
By default, let the toggle be "initial probe formation at sun" if you like. Let us then change that to "initial probe formation at ship". This should be a brain-dead easy option to implement, and will make a lot of people happy.
|
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
213
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 14:02:00 -
[334] - Quote
Fromil wrote:Our corporation lives in a WH. We have several casual players who prefer to mine roids than partake in the more lucrative aspects of WH life. That has always been fine with us, as we're more a social entity rather than a hardcore corp - so we take all comers who fit into our eclectic culture. This change to grav sites to regular anoms is going to make WH mining untenable as we do not have local to alert people mining to a possible threat - cloaky t3s (the mainstay of WH exploration) will be able to warp in and gank our miners without any realistic chance of detection. We will lose members and any chance of the industrial benefits they bring.
Yes, we can focus more on our WH specific operations, but losing the members we have counted amongst our friends is not something I can let pass without comment. It seems to me that in an effort to hurt mining botters you are also hurting the most hardcore, risk-taking miners in the game - this is a nerf to the high-end caliber miners and needs to be reconsidered.
Please reconsider making WH grav sites into anoms. Taking this further, I would suggest/request that all non-Hisec Grav sites remain as cosmic signatures, and that only the Hisec Grav sites become cosmic anomalies. Even in Hisec, I still think Grav signatures would be useful for the rarer varieties: occasionally it is possible to find a lowsec-ore Grav site in Hisec. These should remain as cosmic signatures and be more difficult to locate.
I would even further suggest/request that more ice anomalies be added, but make all of them spawn in random systems, instead of restricting them to certain locations. A statement saying that this is the ultimate goal would suffice as well. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3026
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 14:12:00 -
[335] - Quote
According to the test server thread, the reason for probe formations being initially placed at the sun is to prevent on-grid combat probing from becoming too fast.
Which is a case of poor design leading to workaround solutions.
I really wonder if the consequences of launching all probes immediately were considered. It reduces the exposure time of covert ops probers, making them even harder to detect or catch.
If the problem with probe launching was the need for repeated keypresses, why not simply make the module behave like every other module, and have a setting for auto-repeat? One keypress would then cycle until the launcher is empty, but without any side effects, and everyone would have the choice to launch individual probes.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
99
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 14:29:00 -
[336] - Quote
Roime wrote:According to the test server thread, the reason for probe formations being initially placed at the sun is to prevent on-grid combat probing from becoming too fast.
Which is a case of poor design leading to workaround solutions.
I really wonder if the consequences of launching all probes immediately were considered. It reduces the exposure time of covert ops probers, making them even harder to detect or catch.
If the problem with probe launching was the need for repeated keypresses, why not simply make the module behave like every other module, and have a setting for auto-repeat? One keypress would then cycle until the launcher is empty, but without any side effects, and everyone would have the choice to launch individual probes.
the approach to drop 8 probes at once should not have been coded, if it is deemed as game breaking due to the increased speed at launching probes in a combat situation (the cloaky ship isn't decloaked long enough).
so your workaround to the problem is to default to the sun. the problem is that this is not a decent/acceptable workaround.
as an alternative why not allow the launcher to still launch one at a time(as it is on TQ), but launch each probe in a defined direction leading to the formation of a chosen pattern, so that the end result is the same, you have your pattern, but the time to launch is unchanged from what is on TQ today..
|
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 14:48:00 -
[337] - Quote
Roime wrote:According to the test server thread, the reason for probe formations being initially placed at the sun is to prevent on-grid combat probing from becoming too fast.
Current time to launch 5 probes needed to scan on-grid ship: 10 seconds + another 5 sec to position probes on grid + another 5 sec to scan (w/ level 5 acquisition) ~ =20 seconds
Odysey time to launch 5 probes: 0 seconds + another ~5 to move probes to grid + another 5 sec to scan (or less if you equipt the new med slot module) ~ <10 seconds
gg ccp |
Maxwell Albritten
Prime Numbers
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 15:43:00 -
[338] - Quote
Probes need to expire. Pilots need to be responsible for their stuff. I was on board with the changes until this step towards "Eve is Very Easy".
Nope. |
Vince Snetterton
282
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 16:00:00 -
[339] - Quote
Fromil wrote:Our corporation lives in a WH. We have several casual players who prefer to mine roids than partake in the more lucrative aspects of WH life. That has always been fine with us, as we're more a social entity rather than a hardcore corp - so we take all comers who fit into our eclectic culture. This change to grav sites to regular anoms is going to make WH mining untenable as we do not have local to alert people mining to a possible threat - cloaky t3s (the mainstay of WH exploration) will be able to warp in and gank our miners without any realistic chance of detection. We will lose members and any chance of the industrial benefits they bring.
Yes, we can focus more on our WH specific operations, but losing the members we have counted amongst our friends is not something I can let pass without comment. It seems to me that in an effort to hurt mining botters you are also hurting the most hardcore, risk-taking miners in the game - this is a nerf to the high-end caliber miners and needs to be reconsidered.
Please reconsider making WH grav sites into anoms.
I don't think you have read or followed many of the actions of CCP in the past. They hate the fact that players set up shop in wh's, and care not one whit about any changes that affect wh players.
CCP's attitude is "Eve is a sandbox, you can play this game anyway you like, as long as it is null sec inside a large alliance." |
None ofthe Above
620
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 16:38:00 -
[340] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
Edit: also, is anyone else worried that the reintroduction of faction towers means that the POS revamp is going to be delayed even further?
It was delayed indefinitely before the last CSM summit. How much more delayed can it be?
But you are right in a way, the more they do with the current POS the less likely they will actually be in a hurry to bear down and do the hard work of the POS revamp.
But given the trameframes talked about I don't know what else they can do. They need to find a way to make this work, develop it in tandem with maintain the current system.
IMHO, we need to keep up the feedback letting them know this revamped modular POS is something we want, and not fight the short term fixes for the existing POSes. Don't make me hand you a wizard hat. |
|
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
217
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 17:27:00 -
[341] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Rek Seven wrote:
Edit: also, is anyone else worried that the reintroduction of faction towers means that the POS revamp is going to be delayed even further?
It was delayed indefinitely before the last CSM summit. How much more delayed can it be? But you are right in a way, the more they do with the current POS the less likely they will actually be in a hurry to bear down and do the hard work of the POS revamp. But given the trameframes talked about I don't know what else they can do. They need to find a way to make this work, develop it in tandem with maintain the current system. IMHO, we need to keep up the feedback letting them know this revamped modular POS is something we want, and not fight the short term fixes for the existing POSes. Also realize that they can begin laying the foundation for the new-POS while implementing the short-term extras. The objects in space are superficial; it doesn't matter what is there. Getting the code for personal storage, anywhere-access, real access controls, etc. is all vital, can be done in small pieces, and can be done using individual modules that might otherwise appear to be added hack-jobs. And it all builds on top of everything else. For example, when they get the personal storage stuff right, that enables the possibility for a market hub module that can be anchored at the system's primary tower, adding a market window and related interactions to that system.
Probably most of everything needed can be implemented now, and then a grand announcement of an update that looks like it ties together what was already tied together can be unveiled with the newly redesigned in-space object.
Personally, I would rather they delay the POS revamp to do it right and get the individual pieces working first, so we don't have another Unified Inventory or (now) Scanning frustration that takes months to get settled. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
520
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 17:32:00 -
[342] - Quote
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun wrote:Roime wrote:According to the test server thread, the reason for probe formations being initially placed at the sun is to prevent on-grid combat probing from becoming too fast. Current time to launch 5 probes needed to scan on-grid ship: 10 seconds + another 5 sec to position probes on grid + another 5 sec to scan (w/ level 5 acquisition) ~ =20 seconds Odysey time to launch 5 probes: 0 seconds + another ~5 to move probes to grid + another 5 sec to scan (or less if you equipt the new med slot module) ~ <10 seconds gg ccp
I think they meant "too fast given the other changes we're making." So placing probes ready to warp to the sun means that on-grid probing takes 10 seconds instead of 5.
I suppose it was easier than recoding the auto-repeat to add a configurable "repeat n times" option, but it's still a hack. With an auto-repeat-n-times approach, there would still be a tradeoff between the number of probes you launch and the amount of time that you're uncloaked.
Then allow us to split probes into separate groups, the way we can with drones (but please please please not with the same interface) and you have something that's nearly ideal. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services Existential Anxiety
201
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 20:48:00 -
[343] - Quote
CCP Orion wrote:Lexmana wrote:Alexander the Great wrote: Currently when I need to launch 1 probe I launch one probe. What you offer is "launch 8 probes then select 7 of them in the window, press right mouse button and recover them". Or I need to limit somehow the number of probes in the launcher, but of course there is no option "load X probes to the launcher". How does it make sense to you?
This one should be easy. Just unload the probes from your launcher and jettison all but one probe. Then reload the launcher and launch the single probe. And don't forget to loot the loot the can ... or you could shift drag one on the launcher... might be less wasteful.
Or you guys could program a proper UI that asks how many probes we want to launch. Have a row of buttons labeled 1 through 8, and above it have a prompt like 'Select number of probes for deployment', and each button launches that many probes. Have this work with probes already in space, so if I drop one, and want to add 6, I can do that. And THEN have the total number of probes be able to snap into a formation, even though they're at different points in space.
****, I am a probe UI god. Hire me, jerks. |
Zapa Cheenie
Ab Initio Ad Astra
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 22:31:00 -
[344] - Quote
Well there goes any chance of mining Gravmetric sites in secrecy.... Being a miner just got hella more dangerous. |
Andre Coeurl
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 01:51:00 -
[345] - Quote
As a Wh space dweller, I see some interesting changes (the preset formations, better scan result interface, more sensible names for sites and modules), some wrong mechanics (for example as some pointed out already the default positioning of probes around the sun is a no-go in combat scanning, plus making ore sites anomalies is just sadistic) but most of all lots of plainly exaggerated DUMBING down of scanning and scouting.
There are two reasons why this is wrong: - there are players who invested skilling time (the secondary scanning skills which are going to be nerfed are long to train) and real ingame playtime (even more valuable time) to become good scouts and explorers, going through frustration and losses and deep-space agoraphobia, and the proposed changes will level down their painfully acquired abilities - making exploration too easy and nearly without risk makes it into a very dumb profession, not on the same level with the rest of the game, and this is a very bad omen to the direction CCP may want to take. WoW in space will never get as many players as WoW anyway (there's too much abstraction involved in a spaceship game for the average casual MMO player), but could very well alienate the existing playerbase.
Anyway making it so easy to scout and explore will render covops even less vulnerable, leading to swarms of them getting into WH space so hopefully some unprepared combat pilots will follow them and die horribly |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 02:56:00 -
[346] - Quote
Meytal wrote: Taking this further, I would suggest/request that all non-Hisec Grav sites remain as cosmic signatures, and that only the Hisec Grav sites become cosmic anomalies. Even in Hisec, I still think Grav signatures would be useful for the rarer varieties: occasionally it is possible to find a lowsec-ore Grav site in Hisec. These should remain as cosmic signatures and be more difficult to locate.
Just leave all grav sites as sigs. Hisec mining certainly doesn't need any help and with the Easy Button being applied to scanning, the grav sites will be easy enough to find for the miners that want to bother.
Now , if CCP's ultimate goal is to get rid of all the static asteroid belts, it would be nice for them to let us know now before we devote more training time and resources into deadend endeavors.
|
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 03:00:00 -
[347] - Quote
Maxwell Albritten wrote:Probes need to expire. Pilots need to be responsible for their stuff. I was on board with the changes until this step towards "Eve is Very Easy".
Nope.
I agree. I hate it when I forget and let probes expire. However it does mean that I have to be responsible for my equipment and pay attention. There should be consequences for when I fail.
|
AutumnWind1983
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 03:21:00 -
[348] - Quote
CCP Orion wrote:Lexmana wrote:Alexander the Great wrote: Currently when I need to launch 1 probe I launch one probe. What you offer is "launch 8 probes then select 7 of them in the window, press right mouse button and recover them". Or I need to limit somehow the number of probes in the launcher, but of course there is no option "load X probes to the launcher". How does it make sense to you?
This one should be easy. Just unload the probes from your launcher and jettison all but one probe. Then reload the launcher and launch the single probe. And don't forget to loot the loot the can ... or you could shift drag one on the launcher... might be less wasteful.
Or you could just give us the ability to select how many probes we launch. . . James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org |
Cup1dStunt
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 04:24:00 -
[349] - Quote
Acks wrote:... Oh and before the CCP fanboys cry "Only angry people respond", There have been times where CCP does stuff we actually want and like that is well thought out. Those threads are almost exclusively positive. ...
Compare this thread to the one for the UI changes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=241613
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
373
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 04:34:00 -
[350] - Quote
Cup1dStunt wrote:Acks wrote:... Oh and before the CCP fanboys cry "Only angry people respond", There have been times where CCP does stuff we actually want and like that is well thought out. Those threads are almost exclusively positive. ... Compare this thread to the one for the UI changes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=241613
Yuuup.... I have been off and on the boards for the last 10 years, and this has not changed much... I can only go from my own personal experience, but I suspect CCP will backtrack many of these changes, just like they have before, after being warned over and over again, just like now. |
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Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision Brothers of Apocrypha.
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 05:48:00 -
[351] - Quote
Deep Space Probes are fairly expensive.
I hope that at least means each one is being converted into say 50 regular Combat Probes. Or for probes loaded in ship, a Sisters Combat Probe or a regular Combat Probe and the difference in average value as ISK.
A straight conversion of Deep Space probes to standard Combat Probe would suck as an ISK value asset loss. |
Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision Brothers of Apocrypha.
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 05:52:00 -
[352] - Quote
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:Maxwell Albritten wrote:Probes need to expire. Pilots need to be responsible for their stuff. I was on board with the changes until this step towards "Eve is Very Easy".
Nope. I agree. I hate it when I forget and let probes expire. However it does mean that I have to be responsible for my equipment and pay attention. There should be consequences for when I fail.
IDK
Might not be as big a "give me" as it sounds. After all CCP gave the same "give me" to drones. Now how often does that actually work - and how often are your drones still left behind? |
Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision Brothers of Apocrypha.
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 06:13:00 -
[353] - Quote
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:Meytal wrote: Taking this further, I would suggest/request that all non-Hisec Grav sites remain as cosmic signatures, and that only the Hisec Grav sites become cosmic anomalies. Even in Hisec, I still think Grav signatures would be useful for the rarer varieties: occasionally it is possible to find a lowsec-ore Grav site in Hisec. These should remain as cosmic signatures and be more difficult to locate.
Just leave all grav sites as sigs. Hisec mining certainly doesn't need any help and with the Easy Button being applied to scanning, the grav sites will be easy enough to find for the miners that want to bother. Now , if CCP's ultimate goal is to get rid of all the static asteroid belts, it would be nice for them to let us know now before we devote more training time and resources into deadend endeavors.
I think the move with ice belts finally gets things to where CCP should have started. A little harder to bot farm (though that seems like mostly urban legend to me -- vast multibox sure). Distributed throughout day so big mining fleets can't hog it all before 80% of EVE users even logon.
So I would support standard belts to anomalies.
But it seems that probed grav sites with rare ore or larger roids should still exist. Or perhaps be fused with probed combat sites.
Yeah combat sites are both anomalies (more frequent) and probed sites (better prize possibilities)...why not all types of sites including ore/grav sites? And yes drop the regular belts.
Plus in high sec some anomalies ought to be gated for noobs and smaller mining ships. Or maybe taxed fee according to ship mining/hauling potential at gate to represent the idea that NPC megacorps have hi sec sewn up/in their pocket. Thus you can learn in hi sec and even make some ISK...but lo sec, null orwh being preferable ASAP. |
Telur Curie
Dominion of Inter-Celestial Kings Tribal Band
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 06:21:00 -
[354] - Quote
some neat changes don't know if this has been answered but ore sites under the other new changes are going to be scan able with out probes so does this mean there are still going to be ore sites that need to be probed and if so whats the difference between them |
Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision Brothers of Apocrypha.
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 06:29:00 -
[355] - Quote
Telur Curie wrote:some neat changes don't know if this has been answered but ore sites under the other new changes are going to be scan able with out probes so does this mean there are still going to be ore sites that need to be probed and if so whats the difference between them
all the radar (data), ladar (gas), magnetic (archeology) and combat sites we have now...but updated and revised.
Note the mineable gas is still probe site. Not very consistent CCP. Why not make at least some lesser gas into anomalies to "get folk into it" by making it more accessible? |
Zorok
The Guardian Knights
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 08:03:00 -
[356] - Quote
I thought I would post the following comment here from another thread because I noticed that the devs were not responding to the question on this thread regarding the grav sites being moved to anomalies.
CCP Fozzie wrote:We'd rather have the challenge provided by other players than by us.
Here is a link to the comment : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3024501#post3024501
So my question in all of this is "What kind of challenge will the mining ship provide to the PvPer?" and here's a second very good question..."Why shouldn't I abandon mining and just run missions like my other pals who already make more isk per hour than I do and for less risk?" When I saw this flippant response, I become quite livid.... I'm cancelling my subscription for now since this is the attitude that you have toward miners. Luckily for you my sub doesn't run out for a year but after that, if you haven't provided us miners some kind of balance in the game, you can consider me gone for good. |
Hulasikali Walla
Never Mind the Bollocks
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 09:18:00 -
[357] - Quote
New extension ODYSSEY
Quote:...Odyssey, offers new tools for exploring the stars...challenges you to breach the unknown...A re-imagined scanning system, intuitive navigation ... "Exploration and probing" by CCP One click and jump what a magnificent chalenge Keep on the good work |
Roan Pico
I- T I E -I 24eme Legion Etrangere
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 11:52:00 -
[358] - Quote
Quote:As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.
Gratz, you just killed lowsec mining.
For the rest of this Blog -> \O/ |
Mulani Askiras
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 11:52:00 -
[359] - Quote
CCP - taking 1 step forward, and 12 steps back since release. |
Adaahh Gee
Rock jockeyz
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:01:00 -
[360] - Quote
This is all seems very familiar to the Unified Inventory fracas, 1. Feedback on test server is ignored, 2. Released to TQ, 3. CCP spends 2 weeks patching and fixing, 4. Changes are made that should have been done earlier using the test server feedback.
Result: Angry users, Stressed developers and tension built between the two. (plus some bad press too)
Either play the game yourselves (so you realise how it is actually played) OR Value the input and advice of the people who play 12 hours a day, every day (in case you are wondering, that'd be us, the players)
CCP, when will you learn?
|
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nomad Raholan
1st Steps Academy Fidelas Constans
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:29:00 -
[361] - Quote
Cetrata wrote:Syrias Bizniz wrote:I would really like to see the 'auto-recall' a feature that the player can toggle by himself and being set to recall by default. There's a lot of possible applications in leaving behind your probes in a solar system.
Also, i'm slightly sad about the skill changes applied towards Astrometrics and the specialisations. If you are currently a dedicated prober, you make a huge investment in time to get Rangefinding to V - after all, it's a Rank 8 skill that provides a significant bonus. After the change, it will still be a rank 8 skill that however is by far less important to max out, especially with new scan-strength modules. I'm not asking for a reimbursement of SP here, however, maybe you should consider the 'nerf' of this skill and reevaluate. A solution to this might be, for example, tweaking down the efficiency of the modules that grant scan strength, and have rangefindiung to provide a 7.5% bonus for example, so that the skill-time investment allows you to reach equivalent scanstrength with less mods. Or whatever you feel like. But investing (and have invested) ~1.7m skillpoints (what is this? 40 days?) for such a small bonus that can be circumvent with new fitting possibilities just doesn't feel right.
Getting the additional probe skills to 5 allows you to use the T2 variants of the mid slot scan modules. The modules have twice the bonus of T1. On the lines of the new modules, need to fit 3 new modules where before you needed none.. Are dedicated scanning ships to be given 3 extra slots to fit these or are dedicated scanning ships to be fazed out due to their inability to fit the new modules. My preferred scanning / hacking ship is the cheetah, with the coming changes it will become useless.
With the new ability to only launch 8 probes, do those who choose to use less then have to do things the old way? Launch 1 at a time set position and size then scan.. Nice unless you play this sandbox the way the devs say you are penalised. .,.,.,Disagree with me if you feel the need.,.,., .,.,.,Right or Wrong.,.,.,.-á .,.,.,My opinion is free and mine to own.,.,.,. |
Breathing
The Edge Institute
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:34:00 -
[362] - Quote
Really hope the devs recognise this as something with big impact that is not straight forward and really needs more discussion and thought before it gets dropped on tq.
For me, even just the idea of probes returning instantly... Seriously? That is not Eve. Thats a different game. |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
150
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 13:15:00 -
[363] - Quote
AutumnWind1983 wrote:CCP Orion wrote:Lexmana wrote:Alexander the Great wrote: Currently when I need to launch 1 probe I launch one probe. What you offer is "launch 8 probes then select 7 of them in the window, press right mouse button and recover them". Or I need to limit somehow the number of probes in the launcher, but of course there is no option "load X probes to the launcher". How does it make sense to you?
This one should be easy. Just unload the probes from your launcher and jettison all but one probe. Then reload the launcher and launch the single probe. And don't forget to loot the loot the can ... or you could shift drag one on the launcher... might be less wasteful. Or you could just give us the ability to select how many probes we launch. . . The probe launcher could've even had a radial menu that let you choose between 1 and 8 probes to launch.
CCP's new radial menu system even has up to 8 menu options available, it's the perfect use case for it. Or, you could have radial menu options for 1 probe, 4 probes, 8 probes and the rest of the options being recall, reload, etc. |
Adaahh Gee
Rock jockeyz
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 14:25:00 -
[364] - Quote
Durzel wrote:AutumnWind1983 wrote:CCP Orion wrote:Lexmana wrote:Alexander the Great wrote: Currently when I need to launch 1 probe I launch one probe. What you offer is "launch 8 probes then select 7 of them in the window, press right mouse button and recover them". Or I need to limit somehow the number of probes in the launcher, but of course there is no option "load X probes to the launcher". How does it make sense to you?
This one should be easy. Just unload the probes from your launcher and jettison all but one probe. Then reload the launcher and launch the single probe. And don't forget to loot the loot the can ... or you could shift drag one on the launcher... might be less wasteful. Or you could just give us the ability to select how many probes we launch. . . The probe launcher could've even had a radial menu that let you choose between 1 and 8 probes to launch. CCP's new radial menu system even has up to 8 menu options available, it's the perfect use case for it. Or, you could have radial menu options for 1 probe, 4 probes, 8 probes and the rest of the options being recall, reload, etc.
1, 5 or 8 would be good. I generally probe with 5 unless it is a tough sig, then I launch the other 3.
Also combat scanning is seriously affected as you cannot probe on grid anymore & in a large system, your probes zipping to the sun could give your presence away via d scan to the person you are hunting.
The auto recall is BS also, totally ruins immersion as your probes return instantly even if they are 160au away. Is this some sort of magic or witchcraft? |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
150
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 14:45:00 -
[365] - Quote
The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. |
Draco Zhuangli
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 14:50:00 -
[366] - Quote
When they announced the changes for exploration at the Fanfest they said they wanted to bring a better sense of exploration to the profession of exploring. I was excited to hear this. I anticipated a sense of adventure that using probes and exploring new corners of space would create. Now that I have read what the actual changes are, I am very disappointed.
Where is the adventure? Where is the greater sense of exploring? All we get is a Change in how exploration is performed, "Exploration for Dummies" and not an Expansion. Oh wait, we also get some mini-game and loot spew.
Why the only profession with a mini-game? Why not adapt Minecraft as a mini-game for the miners when they activate their modules? As for the loot spew, if I were a professional and realized that valuable materials would be released into space when I successfully hacked it, I would eventually develop a net of some kind to assemble before I performed the hacking.
All of these changes have turned me off for exploration and negated any sense of adventure. The only way I will consider this a profession in the future is if the payout is similar or better than others. It is merely becoming an evaluation of where do I get the most isk/hr rather than what is fun to do.
Things I do approve include the removal of salvaging, and the removal of gravimetric sites. The salvaging sites were worthless anyway and a waste of your time. It makes sense to change the grav sites the way they are, except that it makes the risk much higher. I hope they adjust the rewards (higher end ore) for the added risk. The archeology sites (except for the sleeper ones in WH) were largely worthless as well. The loot value was minimal so maybe this new system will change that. Ladar sites or Gas sites are only valuable to certain gas harvesters. The low grade gas is very low in value and hardly worth the time to harvest, ship, and market. Maybe what you need is a way to sell the location of these sites? Oh wait, everyone will easily be able to find them now. The high grade gas is rare and worth the time...oops sorry, going negative again.
I also approve of the probe formations and the launching of all probes at once. This makes it easier and saves me a slight amount of repetition.
In my humble opinion, if you want to give exploration a sense of adventure change the mini-game to something that actually requires exploration, discovery, and investigation. Put clues in the containers that lead the explorer on a path to find more clues in other parts of space. The explorer must use intelligence to research history, find agents to discuss artifacts, and discover new places. Hey, some explorers go to places just to see them. Examples: Grand Canyon, Mt. Everest, Amazon River, why not add places like these in space that are beautiful to see. Capsuleers will want to find these places just to get a picture of themselves in front of it. Another option, (since this will require a lot of activity from CCP) allow capsuleers to create their own exploration sites. They could put a note in a bottle (canister), clues to other canisters, leading to a final destination for a prize or a trap.
There are so many ways to make exploration adventurous, and you have done none of them.
|
Pantson Head
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 16:04:00 -
[367] - Quote
So I made my first billion doing Catch and Stain mag sites for intact armor plates in a rifter. This was possible for two reasons: I made on grid bookmarks with my covops ship before bringing my rifter and none of the BS rats needed to be killed in order to access the cans so an AB rifter could orbit a can all day without serious damage. Doing nullsec Mag and Radar sites in a t1 frig may not be what devs intended, but it was fun to use the game mechanics to my advantage and accomplish the 'impossible.' So how does it work now? If you mess up the hacking and ships pop out, do you have to eliminate them or just tank them? Can i still send fresh pilots into nullsec with a covops and t1 frig with naught but a few tales of 200 million isk jackpots from mag sites (yeah I know intact plates are cheap now) and a dream of adventure? To progress from high-low-null-WH exploration do you need more skills now in better ships as well as access to the space? I figure this fits here because it's exploration. I've actually been looking for this on features and ideas for a while now as I expected months in which to indignantly shout my rage at overworked devs. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
381
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 19:19:00 -
[368] - Quote
Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there.
I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable.
Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
107
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 19:24:00 -
[369] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare.
What he said. Having the probe placement where you put them is not only useful, but makes sense. Why would my probes appear to be positioned not where they are positioned? Where is the logic in that, Spock? |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
381
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 19:32:00 -
[370] - Quote
Lolmer wrote:Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare. What he said. Having the probe placement where you put them is not only useful, but makes sense. Why would my probes appear to be positioned not where they are positioned? Where is the logic in that, Spock?
I would not be so mad if I could just ignore scanning and go do something else while they fix it. But I am forced to rely on scanning for my very survival. It effects everything I do in our WH system, and I am going to be forced to deal with their broken "improvement" if I want to continue being a WH pilot in the game of Eve.... |
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Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:50:00 -
[371] - Quote
Lolmer wrote:Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare. What he said. Having the probe placement where you put them is not only useful, but makes sense. Why would my probes appear to be positioned not where they are positioned? Where is the logic in that, Spock?
Okay, I've been reading this same comment multiple times and today you're the lucky winner. The reason they appear where they aren't is because the spheres represent where the probes will be when you click analyze. They don't actually move until you hit analyze in any scenario. Why would it be different here. I don't want there to be a special exception.
It would be nice to tell it to do the position around myself instead of the sun, but that's what is really being asked for. It has nothing to do with where the little spheres go on the solar system map. It *has always been* this way.
Thank you for your time. |
Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:52:00 -
[372] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare.
Why can you not simply drop a set of probes and scan down the bookmarks from the solar system map each day? It seems faster than warping around. This is a real question... is there some reason that this would be slower? |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
975
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 21:36:00 -
[373] - Quote
After doing some testing on Sisi, I'm still of the opinion that the scanning system really doesn't need to be changed much. I like the new probe pre-set ups and the modules, but the auto recall and loss of single probe launching, etc is a bit too far. But what people don't like about the system has been repeated enough that I don't need to do it again.
HOWEVER, assuming that we can still suggest changes that might be implemented, because I want to be constructive, AND taking into account the new input from CCP devs on your intent for this patch, I have an idea that might not be easy to do but seems like it would be the best of both worlds.
Assuming your intent is to make scanning easier for new players, then the issue really comes up when you are forcing the new system on old players who like the challenging gameplay of the current system. Additionally, there are many risk/reward parts of the current system that make good sense to keep.
Suggestion:
Add a new probe launcher for new players that is free/low cost and will use the new scanning system and allow the current system to be largely untouched (other than the new skill updates, modules, and UI updates in the scanning). Additionally, very low skill sites could be added with large signatures so this new module can pick up but can't pick up the current sigs. The sigs would be limited to rookie ships and frigs perhaps.
The pros of this system would be: 1 - New players would get the benefits of the new system you have created and want to move to, 2 - when they master the simple scanning system, they have something to look froward to. The challenge of the new system exists and there is a learning curve as well. Oh and there is anticipation! The thought of exploring more stuff you don't have access to keeps players engaged and excited with the thought of exploration! 3 - the current system is largely intact and the complexity and variety of that system (which is VERY GOOD) can remain intact.
The cons of this system:1 - CCP would have to code it, which might be hard to do. 2 - they might not make the deadline for Odyssey.
Anyway, the CSM was suggesting to be constructive and this is the best I think I can come up with over just trashing all the stuff I don't like with the new system. Most of the complaints are really the same and I think this idea at least attempts to find a middle ground instead of saying Yes to all or No to all. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
107
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 22:30:00 -
[374] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Lolmer wrote:Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare. What he said. Having the probe placement where you put them is not only useful, but makes sense. Why would my probes appear to be positioned not where they are positioned? Where is the logic in that, Spock? Okay, I've been reading this same comment multiple times and today you're the lucky winner. The reason they appear where they aren't is because the spheres represent where the probes will be when you click analyze. They don't actually move until you hit analyze in any scenario. Why would it be different here. I don't want there to be a special exception. It would be nice to tell it to do the position around myself instead of the sun, but that's what is really being asked for. It has nothing to do with where the little spheres go on the solar system map. It *has always been* this way. Thank you for your time.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, that's exactly what we're saying. The current pre-Oddyssey functionality is the probes are clustered around where you launch them, so hitting Analyze *right then* will scan *where you are at*. Besides the lack of sense with the displayed location of probes not matching where they currently are there is also a functional change here which is senseless.
All we are asking is that the former, perfectly sensible and working, functionality be preserved. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
381
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 22:33:00 -
[375] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare. Why can you not simply drop a set of probes and scan down the bookmarks from the solar system map each day? It seems faster than warping around. This is a real question... is there some reason that this would be slower?
Because there are multiple ladar and gravi signatures.... I am just trying to update my bookmarks with the new ID of everything that is still around. a few minutes of gathering updated ID's in my notepad by dropping probes 1 at a time, then update the bookmarks... If I scanned the entire system lightly, I would not know which ladar is which, and which bookmark gets which new ID... Scanning down the entire system to 100% would obviously take a lot longer than this. When I am done, I need to only scan the signatures that are not on my list, which is usually just 1 or 2. We are not talking about a few signatures here... Sometimes it can be 20 signatures that need updating...
tldr: I hit them 1 by 1 so I know exactly which bookmark gets which new ID, quickly
Or I can put it another way. What would take you longer to get a bookmark with an up to date ID? Scanning down a signature to 100%, or warping to it, popping a probe, and hitting scan? That is why I don't scan the entire system every day. because it takes too long and I don't need to when i already have every bookmark from the previous day. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
381
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 22:41:00 -
[376] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Lolmer wrote:Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare. What he said. Having the probe placement where you put them is not only useful, but makes sense. Why would my probes appear to be positioned not where they are positioned? Where is the logic in that, Spock? Okay, I've been reading this same comment multiple times and today you're the lucky winner. The reason they appear where they aren't is because the spheres represent where the probes will be when you click analyze. They don't actually move until you hit analyze in any scenario. Why would it be different here. I don't want there to be a special exception. It would be nice to tell it to do the position around myself instead of the sun, but that's what is really being asked for. It has nothing to do with where the little spheres go on the solar system map. It *has always been* this way.Thank you for your time.
I don't understand what you are saying here... Right now the probes are where I deploy them, immediately... and they will continue to be there after I hit scan....
The new method deploys probe "decoys?" next to me, and then forces me into map mode if I don't want to scan the sun really really well... If I am in error, then so is almost everyone else in here, and CCP has not explained things very well. |
Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
68
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 01:09:00 -
[377] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:I don't understand what you are saying here... Right now the probes are where I deploy them, immediately... and they will continue to be there after I hit scan....
The new method deploys probe "decoys?" next to me, and then forces me into map mode if I don't want to scan the sun really really well... If I am in error, then so is almost everyone else in here, and CCP has not explained things very well.
I'm saying that when you click analyze the probes move to the position indicated by the spheres and begin their scan. The probes do not move as you move the spheres. So when you launch them now, they launch next to you and the spheres move to the pattern location, not the actual probes. So you can adjust them is need be before you hit analyze.
You can think of the launch probe button as launching a bunch of probes and positioning the spheres for the first analyze. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the code actually does.
I can understand why you would want to analyze right around your own ship, but the probes are working internally consistently, just not apparently the way you were expecting. |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
252
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 04:26:00 -
[378] - Quote
Well the name changes are at least good. I don't know what to think about the functionality changes yet. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 07:13:00 -
[379] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Maul555 wrote:I don't understand what you are saying here... Right now the probes are where I deploy them, immediately... and they will continue to be there after I hit scan....
The new method deploys probe "decoys?" next to me, and then forces me into map mode if I don't want to scan the sun really really well... If I am in error, then so is almost everyone else in here, and CCP has not explained things very well. I'm saying that when you click analyze the probes move to the position indicated by the spheres and begin their scan. The probes do not move as you move the spheres. So when you launch them now, they launch next to you and the spheres move to the pattern location, not the actual probes. So you can adjust them is need be before you hit analyze. You can think of the launch probe button as launching a bunch of probes and positioning the spheres for the first analyze. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the code actually does. I can understand why you would want to analyze right around your own ship, but the probes are working internally consistently, just not apparently the way you were expecting.
Not the way anyone is expecting, nor in a way consistent with what normal people would expect, nor even consistent with current behavior. Not all change is good change. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
107
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 07:15:00 -
[380] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:Quintessen wrote:Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare. Why can you not simply drop a set of probes and scan down the bookmarks from the solar system map each day? It seems faster than warping around. This is a real question... is there some reason that this would be slower? Because there are multiple ladar and gravi signatures.... I am just trying to update my bookmarks with the new ID of everything that is still around. a few minutes of gathering updated ID's in my notepad by dropping probes 1 at a time, then update the bookmarks... If I scanned the entire system lightly, I would not know which ladar is which, and which bookmark gets which new ID... Scanning down the entire system to 100% would obviously take a lot longer than this. When I am done, I need to only scan the signatures that are not on my list, which is usually just 1 or 2. We are not talking about a few signatures here... Sometimes it can be 20 signatures that need updating... tldr: I hit them 1 by 1 so I know exactly which bookmark gets which new ID, quickly Or I can put it another way. What would take you longer to get a bookmark with an up to date ID? Scanning down a signature to 100%, or warping to it, popping a probe, and hitting scan? That is why I don't scan the entire system every day. because it takes too long and I don't need to when i already have every bookmark from the previous day.
You can just move your probes over each bookmark in the Solar System view @ 0.5 AU and get the new sig, or emptiness if the sig is gone, no need to warp to each bookmark to see if the site exists. Saves a lot of warping time. :) You can also see if it exists by initiating warp and then cancelling, you'll get the pop-up if it exists and if no pop-up, delete the bookmark.
|
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
382
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 10:51:00 -
[381] - Quote
Lolmer wrote:Maul555 wrote:Quintessen wrote:Maul555 wrote:Durzel wrote:The probes don't move to the sun until you click analyze. I'm genuinely surprised so many "pro" scanners seem to think that this is the case. It just defaults to being placed over the sun for system coverage. You can even see the probes you dropped next to your ship!
This is absolutely no different to moving your probes off scan and then positioning them over a target for a quick scan. They don't move (and they don't see them) until you click analyze and they start actually warping there. I want to be able to drop a probe, cloak up, and hit scan. That is all... They are making this into a fubard process... In the new system I have to enter map mode and drag the probe(s) to my current location even though I see them deployed right next to me. This is completely unacceptable. Do you know how I update our WH signatures daily? I warp to the old signatures, drop 1 probe, cloak up, and hit scan. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN... It gets me the new sig ID's quickly without having to scan down the entire system all over again. This new system will turn this process into a nightmare. a literal fracking nightmare. Why can you not simply drop a set of probes and scan down the bookmarks from the solar system map each day? It seems faster than warping around. This is a real question... is there some reason that this would be slower? Because there are multiple ladar and gravi signatures.... I am just trying to update my bookmarks with the new ID of everything that is still around. a few minutes of gathering updated ID's in my notepad by dropping probes 1 at a time, then update the bookmarks... If I scanned the entire system lightly, I would not know which ladar is which, and which bookmark gets which new ID... Scanning down the entire system to 100% would obviously take a lot longer than this. When I am done, I need to only scan the signatures that are not on my list, which is usually just 1 or 2. We are not talking about a few signatures here... Sometimes it can be 20 signatures that need updating... tldr: I hit them 1 by 1 so I know exactly which bookmark gets which new ID, quickly Or I can put it another way. What would take you longer to get a bookmark with an up to date ID? Scanning down a signature to 100%, or warping to it, popping a probe, and hitting scan? That is why I don't scan the entire system every day. because it takes too long and I don't need to when i already have every bookmark from the previous day. You can just move your probes over each bookmark in the Solar System view @ 0.5 AU and get the new sig, or emptiness if the sig is gone, no need to warp to each bookmark to see if the site exists. Saves a lot of warping time. :) You can also see if it exists by initiating warp and then cancelling, you'll get the pop-up if it exists and if no pop-up, delete the bookmark.
I do that too... I hit warp, if no popup dialog comes up, I cancel and delete the bookmark. |
Quintessen
Orion's Belt Mining and Pharmaceuticals
68
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 15:44:00 -
[382] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:I do that too... I hit warp, if no popup dialog comes up, I cancel and delete the bookmark. Also scanning is a bit of a pain in the ass, so I generally don't go into map mode unless I have to. You can imagine how I feel about being forced to go into map mode for every use of probes soon...
Honestly if that's the primary means of doing it, it kind of feels like an exploit. You shouldn't be receiving messages or information about the site before you warp there. And even though I do exploration and really enjoy it now, if that's the way it's done it's very immersion breaking and exploit-like and would support the message being moved to when you arrive. |
Lyza Kimbo
Cat Scratch Fever
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 17:35:00 -
[383] - Quote
You refer in passing to a new Sensor Overlay, but you don't explain what it is, or even give us a link to where we can read more. It seems to me that's rather vitally relevant to Exploration. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
382
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 17:44:00 -
[384] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Maul555 wrote:I do that too... I hit warp, if no popup dialog comes up, I cancel and delete the bookmark. Also scanning is a bit of a pain in the ass, so I generally don't go into map mode unless I have to. You can imagine how I feel about being forced to go into map mode for every use of probes soon... Honestly if that's the primary means of doing it, it kind of feels like an exploit. You shouldn't be receiving messages or information about the site before you warp there. And even though I do exploration and really enjoy it now, if that's the way it's done it's very immersion breaking and exploit-like and would support the message being moved to when you arrive.
The dialog boxes are there precisely for the purpose of giving you information about the site before you arrive. It has always been that way. Although I am probably using the information in a different way than was expected and completely ignoring the actual content of the dialog box. |
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 18:23:00 -
[385] - Quote
[quote=Maul555
The dialog boxes are there precisely for the purpose of giving you information about the site before you arrive. It has always been that way. I don't think it was ever considered to be close to an exploit because you can only receive the dialog box if you can warp to it, and if you can warp to it, you already have some information about it. Although I am probably using the information in a different way than was expected by completely ignoring the actual content of the dialog box.[/quote]
I'm reasonably good at maintaining wh bookmarks, but that is a new idea to me. Makes perfect sense, I just never thought of it before. Thank you.
Don't recall who it was that was warping to each BMW and dropping a probe but that is a slow way to do it and a great way to lose your ship. As others have mentioned , just go to your safe, and put a probe at .50 AU over each of your bm's and hit scan. You immediately find out if the sig is still there and get the new I'd at the same time.
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
383
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 18:44:00 -
[386] - Quote
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:[quote=Maul555
The dialog boxes are there precisely for the purpose of giving you information about the site before you arrive. It has always been that way. I don't think it was ever considered to be close to an exploit because you can only receive the dialog box if you can warp to it, and if you can warp to it, you already have some information about it. Although I am probably using the information in a different way than was expected by completely ignoring the actual content of the dialog box.
I'm reasonably good at maintaining wh bookmarks, but that is a new idea to me. Makes perfect sense, I just never thought of it before. Thank you.
Don't recall who it was that was warping to each BMW and dropping a probe but that is a slow way to do it and a great way to lose your ship. As others have mentioned , just go to your safe, and put a probe at .50 AU over each of your bm's and hit scan. You immediately find out if the sig is still there and get the new I'd at the same time.
[/quote]
It was me, and like I said, I don't like going into map mode, so I don't when I don't need to. I am hitting warp anyways, it doesn't take long and I have never lost a ship doing it.
Also This method is used when crossing into a new hole for the 1st time. I pop out, Check Dscan, look up some information about the system, decloak, drop 1 probe, cloak back up, and get the ID of the WH, so if I want to scan, i already have it, and can shove it to ignore right away. All without ever having to view the map.
I am pretty sure CCP wants us to play the game our own way, but they are restricting my options with new "improvements" in the name of making (some) things easier. I think a lot of their programmers, while being very good programmers, do not understand all the different ways that players use the game. Th is new "improvement" is obviously aimed at making it easier for 1 style of probing, and screwing the rest... I really think CCP did not even know that there where many other ways of using the scanning system. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
454
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 20:57:00 -
[387] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:*snip*
On a side note: CCP, I know that Eve is listed under games, but you are not, and have never been making a game. Eve is supposed to be a universe, a real world. Design us a better world, and better ways of interacting with it, so we can do anything our heart desires. Right now you guys are acting like you are making a fracking game. STOP IT! I don't send you $45 per month so I can play a game. I send you $45 per month to have access to another universe. Eve is Real... or at least it is supposed to act like it is... Pay attention to your own slogans sometimes, PLEASE. Liked and quoted.
'Crowd Control Productions' is exactly how I perceive this change. Figure out a way to make things easier or to improve upon current systems, but please stop limiting what your subscribers can do with existing (and working!) systems. +++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark GÇ£SeleeneGÇ¥ Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith. |
Ylariana
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 13:24:00 -
[388] - Quote
I honestly hadnt considered the applications of scanning this deeply, so was perfectly happy with the new Bubbles on Sun proposal. However, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes.
If the probes are at point A, why is the screen showing their location as point B if thats not me setting up a Move to Point B instruction ?
Moving the probes to where I want to scan doesnt take that long, certainly less time than I imagine coding this new Start at Sun concept has taken. It seems like a good idea from a newbie scanner point of view, but long term it is actually very limiting and completely counter -intuitive.
If it were my decision I would have to remove this change and leave Honest Probe Locations as the default.
Also, has anyone considered what happens if the Post-Scan Probe Location code goes wrong and you end up defaulting to Start Location after each scan ? Dunno if it would happen, but just imagine ....... |
Space Wanderer
88
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 18:43:00 -
[389] - Quote
Some more feedback.
1) After the last changes on SISI, the scanning penalty on rangefinding modules and their intensity have been changed so much that it is not possible to scan down an "unscannable" ship without virtue implants. Tested both mathematically and on SISI.
2) It is still fairly possible, with a good amount of pinpointing modules to drop the probes range from 8AU to 0.25AU and STILL keep a fix on a signature. THIS is not good. All hail our two-scan-cycles overlords... |
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 19:10:00 -
[390] - Quote
Heh, people still write constructive feedback as if somebody would read it. |
|
Ang Min
CPD Adventures Pte. Ltd.
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 19:23:00 -
[391] - Quote
Vacille wrote:I understand CCP wanting to lower the barrier of entry to exploration and I actually thought they had done that in Apocrypha, but don't they relies that as you continue to dilute the entry knowledge of certain professions you also lower the overall enjoyment and self-gratification a player acquires from getting into that profession.
I joined in 07 and took up probing not long after and that was of course with the old probing system and that was as far as you could get from a user friendly system but that was exactly why I loved it, they're weren't any tutorials to read in game, if you wanted to learn it you'd have to use some initiative and actually go and do some trial and error or search and learn from other people. It was a super niche skill for exactly them reasons, it was an actual profession in game that took a lot of time to master. I understand it needed to change for the inclusion of WH and it was super dumbed down for it, so why exactly is it being even more dumbed down again?
Just to add, this is NOT an exploration expansion unless there is some huge feature you've yet to announce, this is more of a Crucible type expansion for exploration related things. Apocrypha was an exploration expansion. They're nothing new to explore coming with Odyssey.
My sentiments exactly (I also was one of the old school pre-Apoc explorers).
...which reminds me, why on earth is the Destroy Active Probes button still there?? That hasn't had any use in over four years, since before Apoc when probes could not be recalled, and we would destroy them when finished scanning to cover our trail. And why is it so close to the other buttons, such that you can easily click it accidentally? :-)
|
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 20:08:00 -
[392] - Quote
Poor CSM doesn't have anything to do. Before an Expansion release! :)
If only there were some highly questionable changes in this Expansion which would attract the attention of the CSM and provide them with stuff to do... |
Space Wanderer
93
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 21:15:00 -
[393] - Quote
Alexander the Great wrote:Heh, people still write constructive feedback as if somebody would read it.
What can I tell you, I still write it in case it helps. At least nobody will be able to tell me that I didn't try... |
Vorpaladin
Diplomacy Has Failed Heart 0f Darkness
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 01:20:00 -
[394] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Ultimately though, I feel your attempts to "simplify" content and make it "more accessible" are going to end up dumbing the game down, removing the consequences of failure, and turning EVE Online into "WoW in space."
^^ This! |
blueskydragonFX
Emerald Inc. Sapphire Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 12:01:00 -
[395] - Quote
T3's banned from 3/10 4/10.
Oh well....
Tengu. You've been my best friend for 9 months but now its time we split our paths. Without you I never had a collection of faction modules that big. But now I have to say goodbye my Tengu.
"Trades in his Tengu for an Ishtar" |
Quicksilver Proteus
Trans Galactic Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 12:56:00 -
[396] - Quote
Thank you CCP, this is just what we needed. Another dumbed down profession that makes veteran players regret that they chose the profession because it wasn't easy to learn so there wouldn't be throngs of people doing the same thing. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1938
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 12:58:00 -
[397] - Quote
Why can't you ignore anoms from scan results??? Very annoying... |
Angeliq
Soimii Patriei Nulli Secunda
174
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:11:00 -
[398] - Quote
Make a timer delay (10 seconds) before signature anomalies are automatically shown, otherwise ratting in null sec is gone. Velator vs Tornado (EVErything is possible) https://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/1019-velator-vs-tornado-everything-is-possible |
Angeliq
Soimii Patriei Nulli Secunda
174
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:13:00 -
[399] - Quote
Vorpaladin wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Ultimately though, I feel your attempts to "simplify" content and make it "more accessible" are going to end up dumbing the game down, removing the consequences of failure, and turning EVE Online into "WoW in space." ^^ This! ^^THIS^^ Velator vs Tornado (EVErything is possible) https://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/1019-velator-vs-tornado-everything-is-possible |
Angeliq
Soimii Patriei Nulli Secunda
174
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:30:00 -
[400] - Quote
Can anyone explain pls wtf is going on with command ships. Pre Oddisey I was able to fly any T2 BC with only minimal Leadership requirements. Now i can still board them, but in description it says I still have to train 41 days for it. Also, I was able to fly Rorqual pre Oddisey, but now it says I have to train one more day for it. What is going on? Velator vs Tornado (EVErything is possible) https://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/1019-velator-vs-tornado-everything-is-possible |
|
Metalick
Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 20:56:00 -
[401] - Quote
aAaaarH... I hate this inversed scanning system... oh wait.. I guess its a feature
I could scan well with just 4 probes for most sites,,,, now I have to have 8 launch every time.. and I cannot ignore sites ... combat sites still show even though my fitler shows unchecked
Please... give me the option to limit the number of probes and revert the shift and alt to original settings
Please... CCP please... dont be so... |
Pflepsen
Conquering Darkness
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:13:00 -
[402] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Vakasho Umi Kenshar wrote:CCP, I want my drones automatically recalled when I jump or dock, thank you very much for implementing this ASAP. I want my drones automatically recalled when I warp, use an acceleration gate, or when they get shot at. I want my probes to stay right where i leave them, i space, in pattern! multi probe sets in multi systems so i can go between systems and have my probes deployed, reconnect and scan! |
Strom Crendraven
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION ORPHANS OF EVE
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:52:00 -
[403] - Quote
Space Wanderer wrote:Alexander the Great wrote:Heh, people still write constructive feedback as if somebody would read it. What can I tell you, I still write it in case it helps. At least nobody will be able to tell me that I didn't try...
Wallet feedback = two accounts unsubscribed 4 June 2013. I'll go buy some Steam games where add on content doesn't mean taking away items/skills/weapons/resources that you have bought or earned and adding broken mechanics that replace unbroken ones. |
jack morrigan
red vine industrial services
16
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 07:59:00 -
[404] - Quote
hello team superfriends would you mind telling me just who's friends you are, because your no friends to us long time players. You have stabbed us in the back yet again |
Ley Lee
FLIGHT SCHOOL RED.Union
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 08:12:00 -
[405] - Quote
Hey!
Remove automated signature system scan - keep only anomalies than all be fine
People must do somethind to get results - fit probe launcher with probes and push the button in each system at least! |
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 18:49:00 -
[406] - Quote
Another example where new system is a hit for advanced scanning.
Suppose you're a fleet combat prober and you need to control two different spots in the system at the same time. It's possible because you need only 4 probes for each spot.
With previous system you drop 4 probes at one spot then warp to second spot and drop 4 probes there. Then form 2 pyramids.
With new system probes aren't simply placed where your ship is. So you'll need to drag all the probes all over the system separately to those spots then zoom in and form the damn pyramids.
Looks like nobody who worked on this changes has any idea of scanning except casual cases. |
arria Auscent
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
101
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 22:16:00 -
[407] - Quote
we could use an option to turn off probes formation i prefer to place my 5 probes my own way, the new way is a mess be ok if the formations changed when reducing size but they dont |
Wodanaz
Capital Storm. WHY so Seri0Us
11
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 00:15:00 -
[408] - Quote
ccp have a real problem of forcing there own ideas of how things should be on the player base however they should be listening to feedback and than making the changes not the other way round, Iam getting real tired of the lack of care going into this game and the lack of developers who listen to the player base at the end of the day us players should get listened to instead of being ingnored wrong step ccp. |
Space Wanderer
95
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 07:15:00 -
[409] - Quote
Alexander the Great wrote:Looks like nobody who worked on this changes has any idea of scanning except casual cases.
This is very much true. I am very sorry to say this, but can someone at CCP honestly affirm that the design changes to scanning have been depply thought out, beyond the vision phase? Because from my standpoint it certainly looks like they weren't... While I do appreciate CCP's decent reaction to feedback, there are certain design points that a good design phase should have never considered in the first place, feedback or not feedback (7 probes comes to mind, how could you even conceive that??).
CCP, please HTFU, admit that you dropped the ball on this and please, please, please, iterate on the scanning system like you did on the unified inventory. I am not asking you to renounce to your vision, but just fix the clearly horrible things that you have introduced (autorecall of probes or lack of custom formations, for example). |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard Amarr 7th Fleet
267
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 11:35:00 -
[410] - Quote
CCP has removed exploration as a profession and turned it into a sideline.
You should not be able to see the cosmic sigs unless you drop a probe first, they are making those patient souls who went around scanning whole constelations redundant, now anyone and everyone can see if there is something there with no effort on there own part to activly go looking for them, yet another way they are dumbing down EVE to pander to the instant gratification mob. |
|
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
108
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 16:16:00 -
[411] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote: CCP has removed exploration as a profession and turned it into a sideline.
You should not be able to see the cosmic sigs unless you drop a probe first, they are making those patient souls who went around scanning whole constelations redundant, now anyone and everyone can see if there is something there with no effort on there own part to activly go looking for them, yet another way they are dumbing down EVE to pander to the instant gratification mob.
I like that you get to see there is *something* there to explore, but not the great detail (exact number of signatures; anomalies are fine since they're "free" anyways) nor that Gravimetric/Ore Sites are not "free" and don't need to be explored. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:55:00 -
[412] - Quote
i am soo glad i moved out of my wh before you completely ****** up scanning.
When can I => customize the scan probe deployment? => have probes launch and warp to a standard of my choosing? => configure which buttons do what? => resize the columns on the scan window? => get the scan timer back? => get the shift key to do what it did originally? => see all my probes by default? => get rid of your stupid color bar? => have the deployment buttons scale to the range that i have set?
I wonder how many patches you will have to do to fix this stuff. that you broke. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
126
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 23:02:00 -
[413] - Quote
How do we get these new scan modules without the market? "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein-á |
catallin
Bite Me inc Bitten.
19
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 07:25:00 -
[414] - Quote
Old functions (or in CCP's view - flaws) that existed in the old system should be reintegrated: - having the option to launch less probes, not your full charge - having the option to leave the probes out - seeing which probe is which (number-wise) and centering on one of them without having to press extra buttons - opening the scanner window with one click instead of 2 (seriously, i can open the d-scanner myself, thank you very much) - random other stuff that has been mentioned so far edit: - jeez, the probes are launched near your ship; why in the name of batman should i see them near the sun?! |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group The Periphery
135
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 07:46:00 -
[415] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:i am soo glad i moved out of my wh before you completely ****** up scanning.
When can I => customize the scan probe deployment? => have probes launch and warp to a standard of my choosing? => configure which buttons do what? => resize the columns on the scan window? => get the scan timer back? => get the shift key to do what it did originally? => see all my probes by default? => get rid of your stupid color bar? => have the deployment buttons scale to the range that i have set?
I wonder how many patches you will have to do to fix this stuff. that you broke.
I just tried this stuff out, and am pretty amused that they took out the ability to resize the columns. No one thought it might be a good idea to shorten "Cosmic Anomaly" and "Cosmic Signature" to just Anomaly and Signature? Also the new controls for moving probes are ridiculous, as is the idea that they would not include a way to toggle to the new reverse group move controls.
In an poorly thought out and under implemented change, ccp has caused for me what they are attempting to shield new scanners from, I have to learn it over again. The default formations range from useless to all but useless, so I'm attempting to learn to manually position the probes in this trainwreck. |
Pete Pollitt
BB12 inc
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 11:21:00 -
[416] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote: CCP has removed exploration as a profession and turned it into a sideline.
You should not be able to see the cosmic sigs unless you drop a probe first, they are making those patient souls who went around scanning whole constelations redundant, now anyone and everyone can see if there is something there with no effort on there own part to activly go looking for them, yet another way they are dumbing down EVE to pander to the instant gratification mob.
i totally agree with this. it has gone from good healthy competition to a race because everyone can see whats out there. hopefully it will return to normal once the novelty has worn off.
But that said still keep up the hard work CCP |
Rhapsodae
Bedlam Escapees Silent Requiem
13
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 13:24:00 -
[417] - Quote
Scannings totally screwed.
Give is something to do ourselves.
Keep Anomalies in systemscan, make us work word complexes! Training for all the scanning skills over a starter skill should give us some ruddy benefit just like before the patch. Now everybody uses 7 probes wtf. Some still like 6!
And give me back my deepspace scanner probes!!! Jitters 4-4: Eve Online Comic. |
Jabbawok
Griff-Co
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 14:32:00 -
[418] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:i am soo glad i moved out of my wh before you completely ****** up scanning.
When can I => customize the scan probe deployment? => have probes launch and warp to a standard of my choosing? => configure which buttons do what? => resize the columns on the scan window? => get the scan timer back? => get the shift key to do what it did originally? => see all my probes by default? => get rid of your stupid color bar? => have the deployment buttons scale to the range that i have set?
I wonder how many patches you will have to do to fix this stuff. that you broke. I just tried this stuff out, and am pretty amused that they took out the ability to resize the columns. No one thought it might be a good idea to shorten "Cosmic Anomaly" and "Cosmic Signature" to just Anomaly and Signature? Also the new controls for moving probes are ridiculous, as is the idea that they would not include a way to toggle to the new reverse group move controls. In an poorly thought out and under implemented change, ccp has caused for me what they are attempting to shield new scanners from, I have to learn it over again. The default formations range from useless to all but useless, so I'm attempting to learn to manually position the probes in this trainwreck.
|
Anti-social Tendencies
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 17:52:00 -
[419] - Quote
These threads are getting a bit long to find.
Right now the system scanner doesn't refresh automatically. That is fine, but unlike d scan, hitting the scan button doesn't work. I get a message that it can't connect with probes .
Before DSPs were removed. We would launch a probe and use it to scan for the presence of new sigs or new ships. Now we don't have those available . The system scanner will give new sigs but the only way I can find to scan for new sigs is to close and reopen the scanner . Anyone know if this is a bug? How can we get the functionality if the DSPs, at least in part?
"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7976
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 06:57:00 -
[420] - Quote
I read the Dev Blog as well as every single reply in this thread, gave most of them +1 like
I agree with the majority of players posting in this thread about this so-called exploration expansion. In fact, CCP should be calling this a contraction.
This expansion actually benefits PvP gankers, plain and simple. There' so much more I'd like to say but that would simply be too easy.
DMC |
|
Fon SaiHoc
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 15:39:00 -
[421] - Quote
Quoting what i posted on the Odissey Feedback thread:
I am going to give my feedback.
Compared to many and possibly most of the players who come here i am probably a noob, but i play EVE for 2 years and a half and i consider that quite some time. My main activity is Exploration. I have three accounts and i have invested much time ( and lets face it, money ) in this game and community because i truely enjoyed it... untill now.
What do i think of this patch? I have no words. I am seriously considering dropping my subscriptions. Its not a rage quit, its simply not enjoying the game anymore. And i will explain why.
There are many things that can be done in EVE, the way we are will influence the path we choose in EVE.
Only a small group chooses exploration and there is a reason for that.
This patch takes all the reasons away. The miners and ratters and mission runners will become "explorers" and the real explorers will find another way to enjoy the game... or quit.
Seriously, you should not change exploration so much without consulting explorers... but i guess you went to consult who is not an explorer... So now you have a semi-automatic system to scan.... i hate it... I have my own techniques... in a bit over two years i have over 400 units of overseer personal effects from 3/10 complexes and over 300 from 4/10 complexes. I am an explorer or was untill now.
I have my own techniques, and those techniques i developed with experience and effort, those give me an advantage. I enter a system and i dont know if there is anything good in it. I start probing, its a hit and miss, the thrill of finding or not. the run to find it before others come in and find it as well.
Now? Now you enter the system and see everything, you even see where the signature is located within the system before launching one probe. awesome!!! thats how easy it gets now! What about the probes? Semi-automatic, press launch, they all go out and get linked! awesome!!!
so what makes the difference now? just skills, just put some days on the side to train some skills and you are good to go.
Now mission runners can do exploration afkish as they do with the missions...
It never ocurred to you that real explorers actually like to move the probes manually? that they actually enjoy the fact that its hard? and feel more rewarded from finding something that its hard to find? Did you ask any explorer who has ran over 700 scanned complexes in two years if he wanted the probes to be released that way? and to be linked? and everythign else?
For me, the game is ruined, but i guess thats alright, i only have three accounts... those can be replaced with three new players...
For the record, i am not one of those guys who always come here complain, quite the opposite, i have never complained about any patch. If there is a bug i report and thats it.
Now?... now i hardly log into EVE... i have a few more days untill my subscriptions expire but really... i find no reasons to log.
Best wishes to everyone.
Fon
PS - I will add something:
All my three accounts were built around the joy of exploration. I would never consider training a miner pilot if lowsec ore would be so easely found in highsec without scanning, it was good the way it was!!!
I would never consider training an orca pilot - freighter pilot if lowsec ore would be so easely found in highsec without scanning as it is now - it was good the way it was!!!
I am not a gamer, i dont play and didnt play other games, EVE its the only game for me and what made me want to stay for 2 years and a half already, was exploration.
Now there is no exploration, you have taken exploration out and transformed it into a new way to play afkish, good for afkish mission runners and afkish miners.
If exploration was what made me stay, not having exploration, i have no reasons to stay.
This is not a threat about unsubbing, its simply so.
One of my accounts have alreayd expired and i didnt renew it, and the other two will expire soon and i wont renew it as well because i have no reasons to. Since i tried the new "exploration scanning whatever" i docked and i had no motivation to undock, because there is nothing anymore for me in the game.
If i would try EVE today, i would not play longer than a couple of days. When i joined back in 2010, i had not finished the tutorials and i knew already i was going to stay and i knew already i wanted to be an explorer.
Two years and a half later i have over 300 8th tier overseer personal effects from DED rated 4/10 complexes. An explorer knows that means probably around 1.000 4/10 level ship restrictions complexes ran,because the unrated spawn more than the others.
Two years and a half later i have over 400 7th tier overseer personal effects from DED rated 3/10 complexes. An explorer knows that means probably twice that number if counting the unrated complexes in which you can take only up to a cruiser size ship.
Adding the 2/10s, i've ran over 2.000 combat complexes in less than two years and a half.
Add to that radar sites, magnometric sites, gravimetric sites for which i created a second miner account and a third orca pilot account.
Fon SaiHoc was an explorer.
Peace everyone.
o7
|
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
327
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 00:09:00 -
[422] - Quote
I would like the option to have the probe default be :
That the probes are visible and moveable like they were before. Shift selects all probes like it was before. Probe formations are centered around one distinct probe which is labeled or colored differently then other probes. Center probe is an actual probe and not just arrows in space.
The scanner remembers that there are other signatures that are not currently covered by the scan probes when probes are being used to find signatures.
The scanner retains an active scan button even when there are no probes out.
I am not sure why its desireable to lose functionality but that is where you have gone.
CCP has yet to release a video of how the Unified inventory (first implementation) improved workflow. CCP has yet to demonstrate how the new scanning is better then the last one. Im not holding my breath either. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
|
Space Wanderer
105
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 09:23:00 -
[423] - Quote
The silence of CCP in this thread is deafening...
It seems clear to me that CCP has not yet a clear idea on how to get out of the mess they did with exploration, so they hope that not mentioning it will somehow let it slide, even though it seems clear that overall they have not achieved what they set out to do.
So, in an optic of being constructive, I'll try to give some suggestions on how to straighten out this mess, if CCP ever decides to iterate on the system (which, byt the look of it they probably will not...). Of course this is only my opinion, but I think that many people will find the suggestions here at least an improvement on the currrent situation.
1) The Scanning Overlay
There is so much potential in this idea, and so little has been realized...
First of all, get rid of the "enter system, get bacon" thing. The scanning overlay is nice, and even the autoscan does not really hurt, but the fact that its range is infinite is mind-boggling. One important modification that should be done is to restrict the range of that scanner to 4AU, being basically a graphical and automatic version of the old onboard scanner. Also you might want to restrict the type of signatures that you can detect (for instance, you might be able to detect only signatures whose base signature size is above a certain level).
Then add skills and modules that allow to increase the range and the type of signatures detectable, so that the "infinite" range can be hit only by those who actually work towards exploration. And if you want to make happy those who feel the lack of DSPs, introduce some module that also informs you on the base signature size (with possibly a degree of approximation). This setup still meets CCP vision, because noobs will still be able to immediately see that there is stuff out there, and will be able to get to SOME of it, but it also rewards dedicated explorers for skill and equipment investment.
2) The scanning interface
Not much that you haven't been told by lots of people already.
First of all introduce at least one custom formation. That was the only thing that many people were asking to implement, and you not implementing it after all the work that nobody asked for, is some sort of slap in the face on your playerbase of which you should be ashamed. This would be one way in which you communicate to your playerbase that you care also for current explorers instead of being willing to throw them away in order to get noobs onboard.
Obviously also fixing some stupid things that you have removed from the previous interface might help. For instance: a) the fact that you cannot resize the columns of the scan reports... this should be fixed. b) the fact that your probes are always centered on the sun instead of being centered where you throw them... this should be fixed.
3) Probes launch and retrieval
There is nothing wrong in simplifying the probe launching mechanism, but immediate launch of all the probes is, as most of your changes, detracting from the variability of gameplay. The time needed to launch the probes, and the fact that they may prevent you to cloak in a hurry may open windows of opportunity for an attacker or a defender. If you wanted to enable a one-click to launch all, why not simply enabling autorepeat on the launcher, instead of changing everything?
As for instant probe retrieval, while I promised myself that in this post I would not ask you to rollback anything, I think you should simply rollback this single thing. While I appreciate that you at least enabled people to willingly leave probes in a system, instant recall was simply uncalled for, and against everything that EVE stands for (actions have consequences, ability and foresighting are rewarded, stuff gets blown up, etc...). Mind you, I don't really mind autorecall, but I am seriously against instant recall. If you want to autorecall probes you should not be able to gate out or dock until they have returned.
4) Grav sites in anomalies
Now this does not have much of an effect in highsec and nullsec, but it makes very hard to ninja-mine in lowsec and impossible to mine in wh. Mind you, I don't mind moving the BELTS in anomalies, as it has been done with ice, but the grav sites? They were supposed to be one of the bonuses of taking up exploration. By moving it into the anomalies you have effectively removed them from being exploration rewards, and also made them almost useless in whs and only marginally useful in lowsec. I would suggest to move all the belts in anomalies, which also makes them harder to bot, and putting grav sites back in signatures where they belong.
Just my 2c. |
Angeliq
Soimii Patriei Nulli Secunda
181
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 13:31:00 -
[424] - Quote
As one of the oldest players in EVE and at the same time one of the oldest explorers and ship probers, all I can say is: WHAT THE...? I understand the need to make things more intuitive and accessible, to polish and make it shiny, but what CCP did with exploration, d.scan and ship probing is just dumbing the game down by a huge amount. Seriously CCP, stop making this game appeal to ALL down syndrome kids. There are a few oft hem playing, but don't make things this easy for them, give them a sense of accomplishment, make them work a little, don't just hand them everything.
Here's how I would see all these new "features" working:
1: Keep the new preset formation buttons for probes layout (formation), but make them customizable. Make it so the player has to arrange the probes in space himself and give him the option to SAVE the formation and preset it to the corresponding button (system covering formation or pinpoint signature formation). This way the player still has to do some work on his own, and every explorer/prober will use whatever formation fits him best or the best formation he is capable of thinking of. 2: Make Cosmic Signatures visible only for ships that have scan probe launcher fitted. 3: Display Cosmic Anomalies 10 seconds AFTER jumping into a system, undocking or changing ship. It is roughly the same amount of time a player needed to get Cosmic Anomaly results preOdissey by using the old system scanner function. 4: Allow the player to launch how many probes he wants and do not automatically place them on the sun, leave the probes launched near the ship so the player moves them around wherever he wants. 5: Do not autorecall probes when leaving system or docking. 6: Bring back the Scan Now button for system scanner and make the auto system scanning optional, but keep the new (grid) scanning effect. 7: Make an option to Clear other results, just like the option to Ignore other results AND make those options functional. If a signature/anomaly is ignored and cleared do not display it EVER AGAIN unless I clear the filter. This way it will prevent signatures/anomalies from showing back up in my results if I dock/undock, change ship, leave and reenter system, scan the system again, etc. 8: Do not display newly spawned anomalies on my screen if the overlay is disabled. Display them only is Scan window, maybe make them flash a couple of times to draw attention. 9: Get rid of the filling green bar effect for signatures, display only a green bar if you must, but I find the number display in % to be quite enough. 10: Make column size customizable in scan window results.
Best regards, Ang Velator vs Tornado (EVErything is possible) https://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/1019-velator-vs-tornado-everything-is-possible |
Erhard Blaatand
Warp Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 21:26:00 -
[425] - Quote
.. -.. --- .-.. .. -.- . .... --- .-- . .- ... -.-- .. - .. ... - --- -- --- ...- . - .... . .--. .-. --- -... . ... -. --- .-- -... ..- - .. - .. ... --- ...- . .-. .- .-.. .-.. .-- .- -.-- - --- . .- ... -.-- - --- ... -.-. .- -. -. --- .-- .-.-.- .. ..-. .. -. -.. -- --- .-. . .-- .. - .... -- -.-- -- .. -. .. -. --. -... .- .-. --. . - .... . -. .. -.. .. -.. -... . ..-. --- .-. . .-- .. - .... -- -.-- ... -.-. .- -. -. . .-. .-.-.- -... .- -.. .-.-.- .-.-.- |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
234
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 00:34:00 -
[426] - Quote
Erhard Blaatand wrote:.. -.. --- .-.. .. -.- . .... --- .-- . .- ... -.-- .. - .. ... - --- -- --- ...- . - .... . .--. .-. --- -... . ... -. --- .-- -... ..- - .. - .. ... --- ...- . .-. .- .-.. .-.. .-- .- -.-- - --- . .- ... -.-- - --- ... -.-. .- -. -. --- .-- .-.-.- .. ..-. .. -. -.. -- --- .-. . .-- .. - .... -- -.-- -- .. -. .. -. --. -... .- .-. --. . - .... . -. .. -.. .. -.. -... . ..-. --- .-. . .-- .. - .... -- -.-- ... -.-. .- -. -. . .-. .-.-.- -... .- -.. .-.-.- .-.-.- Slightly marred by the spelling mistakes, but they didn't prevent it from being a nice little challenge. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8225
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 08:03:00 -
[427] - Quote
Erhard Blaatand wrote:.. -.. --- .-.. .. -.- . .... --- .-- . .- ... -.-- .. - .. ... - --- -- --- ...- . - .... . .--. .-. --- -... . ... -. --- .-- -... ..- - .. - .. ... --- ...- . .-. .- .-.. .-.. .-- .- -.-- - --- . .- ... -.-- - --- ... -.-. .- -. -. --- .-- .-.-.- .. ..-. .. -. -.. -- --- .-. . .-- .. - .... -- -.-- -- .. -. .. -. --. -... .- .-. --. . - .... . -. .. -.. .. -.. -... . ..-. --- .-. . .-- .. - .... -- -.-- ... -.-. .- -. -. . .-. .-.-.- -... .- -.. .-.-.- .-.-.- Ahhh, excellent, Morse Code. http://morsecode.scphillips.com/jtranslator.html
Translation =
Quote:I DO LIKE HOW EASY IT IS TO MOVE THE PROBES NOW BUT IT IS OVERALL WAY TO EASY TO SCAN NOW. I FIND MORE WITH MY MINING BARGE THEN I DID BEFORE WITH MY SCANNER. BAD..
DMC |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
238
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 08:17:00 -
[428] - Quote
I'm amazed - I never realised there was such a thing as an online morse code translator. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8230
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 08:50:00 -
[429] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:I'm amazed - I never realised there was such a thing as an online morse code translator. Yeah, there's a few different types of Code translators available.
Since this is a Sy-Fy game, CCP likes to use Binary Code, especially for Drones.
http://www.roubaixinteractive.com/PlayGround/Binary_Conversion/Binary_to_Text.asp
|
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:02:00 -
[430] - Quote
Angeliq wrote: 7: Make an option to Clear other results, just like the option to Ignore other results AND make those options functional. If a signature/anomaly is ignored and cleared do not display it EVER AGAIN unless I clear the filter. This way it will prevent signatures/anomalies from showing back up in my results if I dock/undock, change ship, leave and reenter system, scan the system again, etc.
If CCP has to choose one gripe to patch, this is the one. This is a huge annoyance for me personally, and since others have complained about it, I don't think I'm alone. |
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Ion Blacknight
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:20:00 -
[431] - Quote
This is my first post. I just have to say how disappointed I am with the changes to exploration. The system scan I don't mind, and the pre-set probe formation is good. But the 'mini game' is tedious and the scatter can idea is just horrible and after you have been through all that what do you get? Garbage. Even if you scan the cans and you know there is something valuable, you mostly end up with data sheets or some other garbage. These changes were supposed to revitalize and popularize exploration and to me they simply kill exploration. The answer 'bring a few buddies' to collect the cans is redundant. Exploration is a solo activity. No one wants to hang around while someone else is hacking, especially to divide up garbage data sheets between 3 people. So disappointing CCP. |
Rhapsodae
Bedlam Escapees Silent Requiem
22
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 03:52:00 -
[432] - Quote
TL:DR
Will CCP realize now that the lure of EVE being Challenge that they change the Scanning back a few notches fomo "stupid" to "challenging" again? I'm really done with getting a babified version of a game i used to love.
Can't wait for an official response Jitters 4-4: Eve Online Comic. |
Space Wanderer
109
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 07:25:00 -
[433] - Quote
Rhapsodae wrote:Can't wait for an official response
I can't too, but I am not holding my breath either.... |
Fon SaiHoc
University of Caille Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 16:19:00 -
[434] - Quote
Rhapsodae wrote:TL:DR
Will CCP realize now that the lure of EVE being Challenge that they change the Scanning back a few notches from "stupid" to "challenging" again? I'm really done with getting a babified version of a game i used to love.
Can't wait for an official response
There will be no response, exploration is not going to go back to challenging. So they wont respond.
Exploration was the side of EVE that woudl reward the ones with a nack, the ones that dont like it easy, the ones that persevere.
I never minded how easy and stupid missions are, you are told to go to this place, to this and get this reward. I dont mind it, i simply dont like it, so i am not a mission runner. It never bothered me if someone would be running lvl 4s AFK ( and i know soooo many ) with a PST ishtar, for example... But the fact that we could get what they couldnt with our effort, always caused an "itch".
CCP decided to take exploration from us to give it to the ones less willing to develop effort.
Maybe they could have considered creating a "kids-level-pretending-to-be-exploration" while keeping real exploration for the real explorers... but they didnt. After all we explorers are so few... if you have any doubts, my fellow capsuleer, check the feedbacks.
Folks find this an "exploration-revamp"... they find its good that its so easy now, semi-automatic, and then complain about bothering things... like a place where a button is... I remember mission runners complaining about the distance the mission objective is from the point where they land after warp... even in missions with no rats to kill, in which they only have to burn to the container... even that its already annoyingly effortful.
The CCP team and everyone involved in this change of exploration failed to understanding one thing, we are not explorers because of the reward, we are explorers because of the thrill of exploration. What you implemented is not exploration, you took the thrill away and replaced it with some semi-automatic system to get a reward so that "the others" could do it. Dont call it exploration, call it something else, there is no more exploration in EVE Online.
Ideally a community, a society will be base on the principles of Meritocracy. That is the reason why the United States, although being such a new country, became the most important country in the world, because it was built on those principles.
Taking from the ones with more merit to give to the ones less willing to develop effort its the opposite of that.
Any society or community in which an individual is prized for not doing effort its doomed.
Might appear as a smart move from CCP to take exploration from the relatively few explorers to give some extra semi-afk reward to the majority of the PVE players, but that is only aparent.
EVE online only remains in existance today ( and growing ) after so many years because some stayed during all those years, some created the player base which makes EVE today attractive to everyone ( including WOW players). Its the "folclore" these players create ingame and offgame as a community that brings new players. Its not new ships paintjobs, its not a new button, or a new round target, or whatever... its the player base that makes it attractive. The ones that stayed during all those years were the ones with a nack, the ones who persevere, the ones who seek challenges. Pushing away the explorers of today from the game, its pushing away the future player base of EVE Online. The ones who persevere, who like challenges, who develop effort, are the player base of EVE Online 10 years from now.
The afk mission runners will remain afk mission runners, what part of EVE will you take in the future ( after taking exploration ) to give some close-to-no-effort reward to those players? Are you going to end PVP in the future and re-think all highsec -> nullsec concept? And after that? After that EVE will be dead because your player base exists no more and the mission runners have found themselves some other quick-fix. And btw, are you aware of the fact that most mission runners after they get to a lvl in which they can pay PLEX with isk, dont pay subscription?
I, from my part and after over two years and a half playing this game with much joy, independently of being more or less rewarded, have less than 48 hours still on my two accounts ( third has already expired ) and since i tried the new "exploration-revamp", i docked and never logged in again.
o7 Fon |
Mercedes Chance
GDC Enterprises
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 17:52:00 -
[435] - Quote
Fon SaiHoc wrote:
I, from my part and after over two years and a half playing this game with much joy, independently of being more or less rewarded, have less than 48 hours still on my two accounts ( third has already expired ) and since i tried the new "exploration-revamp", i docked and never logged in again.
o7 Fon
I would ask for your stuff but I would need partners to capture your loot scatter. |
Fon SaiHoc
University of Caille Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 17:54:00 -
[436] - Quote
Mercedes Chance wrote:Fon SaiHoc wrote:
I, from my part and after over two years and a half playing this game with much joy, independently of being more or less rewarded, have less than 48 hours still on my two accounts ( third has already expired ) and since i tried the new "exploration-revamp", i docked and never logged in again.
o7 Fon
I would ask for your stuff but I would need partners to capture your loot scatter.
But i would not give, just in overseer personal effects i might have around 1.5B worth |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
334
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 23:00:00 -
[437] - Quote
We would have to sit at your station and wait as one of us played some stupid forum game for you to give up your loot and then wed all have to wildy click in space as you tossed your things into the void. five seconds later it would either be in our cargos or lost to space. despite its low speed ejection.
Its too bad we would all be watching the supermassive dscan window and miss the first few second of spew. or have half of it float magically back into the station where we cant reach it because of invisible barriers. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
347
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 00:59:00 -
[438] - Quote
Mercedes Chance wrote:Fon SaiHoc wrote:
I, from my part and after over two years and a half playing this game with much joy, independently of being more or less rewarded, have less than 48 hours still on my two accounts ( third has already expired ) and since i tried the new "exploration-revamp", i docked and never logged in again.
o7 Fon
I would ask for your stuff but I would need partners to capture your loot scatter. There is no emoticon to express how I feel about scatter loot.
That and the insta-warp to Grav sites, I mean Anomalies.
Exploration took some skill before. You had to figure out how to deal with rtaz and still be able to hack containers, etc. Hybrid all-in-one ship designs popped up and/or dual account strategies. Now, there ain't no stinking ratz. You can warp in with a cheetah armed to the teeth with analyzers and have at it.
I don't know guys. Guess I'll still explore out in Lo sec, but no more Grav sites - I have been kicking around in a Venture and cherry picking choice rocks, so that seems to be a workable solution. But no probes on Dscan as a prelude to gankage - very very disconcerting. |
Rhapsodae
Bedlam Escapees Silent Requiem
25
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 05:36:00 -
[439] - Quote
If CCP really going to stick with scanning as it is, im going to wonder out loud where it ends. I love this game so much for its challenging sides. I ve trained for month to be good in scanning and became quite good. Not many times did you see deepspace scanner probes and once you did you knew you had serious company.
We all had to learn, and even had to do some research. No ruddy excuse to simplify it. All you needed to do CCP, was to make it more appealing, add more loot, more escalations DIFFERENT escalations. Some of these are still broken as feck.
All in all:
REMOVE THE DAMN 0% sites from system scan. and BRING BACK DEEP SPACE SCANNER PROBES
that way we're all a little happier. Jitters 4-4: Eve Online Comic. |
Fon SaiHoc
University of Caille Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 10:29:00 -
[440] - Quote
Thumbs up for the Rhapsodae and Urgg Boolean.
Thats really the thing. What exploration needed most of all was more variety, different 3/10s, different 4/10s, different 2/10s, different radar sites, why not radar sites with an easy 3/10 attached? or a 2/10? that was the way to go with exploration. Not taking the effort, the dedication, the thrill of trying to find something we dont know its out there...
Why not make the missions scanned site instead? You get a mission and you need to scan it in a 10 systems radius to be able to warp to it? Why not? it would be the same thing, missions would become more appealing to us explorers. That would mean of course taking from the mission runners what they enjoy.
You did that the other way around, you took from explorers what they enjoy to handle to mission runners and afk miners a semi-automatic way to get reward...
I am surprised with the fact that CCP did nothing to justify the changes... either they had no idea of what they were doing or they knew exactly what they were doing... If they dont clear that out, we will decide for ourselves what appears more likely to have happened.
And if the reason was the second i mentioned, then that means they have no respect for the players who have been paying a subscription ( or more than one ) for years. Maybe they think you are so addicted to the game they dont need to care about you at all, your needs and expectations as player, you will continue playing no matter what.
Like a drug addicted who goes buy it from someone who beats him in the head every time he goes there. He doesnt like the beating, but he needs his dose so he goes anyway. Thats how CCP is treating the players who have stayed in EVE ( some for years ) due to the thrill of exploration.
We beat you in the head because we know you will continue coming here everyday, because you are addicted. We dont respect you and we dont need to.
thats two cents and a half
o7 Fon
|
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Ion Blacknight
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 03:59:00 -
[441] - Quote
Eve Online: Odyssey - Start your journey
This is the name and the slogan of the latest expansion. It brings to mind the travels of Odysseus. It brings to mind a journey that is very long and very difficult to do. A challenge that only the strongest, only the most persevering and skillful can hope to meet.
Is this what we find in the expansion? No.
Some suggestions.
Keep this 'baby steps' exploration system as it now stands, but create a new level of exploration. The real deal. Bring back deep space probes, and create deep space exploration. Long distances, dedicated vessels, advanced modules, triangulation from several sources to get the hardest sites, and so on, you know what I mean.
Next make the sites a gold mine of salvageable materials but difficult to collect alone and without the right tools. Make salvaging a team activity, a corporate activity. Make discovered hulls themselves salvageable with the right equipment, dedicated salvaging freighters, hulks and so on. Make it so that you can build ships from the parts you collect. Do this and perhaps exploration could rival mining as a go to activity and a corporate activity. Explorers with good skills and good ships would find their niche and be well rewarded.
Something like this would be an Odyssey. This would be a journey worth starting.
I'm a new player, surely you old exploration hands can flesh out this rough idea with a hundred things that don't occur to me.
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Titan Ace
United Nomadic Navy Consortium Collective
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 05:32:00 -
[442] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together. DScan is not going anywhere. I think you missed the point. Pre Odyssey, if you were in a WH grav you had the chance of seeing probes on Dscan (gravs had to be scanned out to warp to them), giving you time (if fast enough) to warp off to the relative safety of a pos. Post Odyssey, gravs show as ANOMS upon entry to the system, no need to scan = no warning for those mining of possible incoming danger = dead mining barge/exhumer.
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Space Wanderer
110
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 08:32:00 -
[443] - Quote
Ion Blacknight wrote:Eve Online: Odyssey - Start your journey
This is the name and the slogan of the latest expansion. It brings to mind the travels of Odysseus. It brings to mind a journey that is very long and very difficult to do. A challenge that only the strongest, only the most persevering and skillful can hope to meet.
Is this what we find in the expansion? No.
While I disagree with many of the suggested solutions presented in this post, I think that the words above perfectly nail down the main issue that most explorers have with this contraction, sorry, "expansion". Willingly or not, you marketed this patch as something that would add depth and challenge to exploration, and then you went on your merry way to do the opposite. Honestly, I was thinking that you were going to revamp the scanning system to make it much more challenging, instead of turning it into just another way to get missions.
Perhaps you have some deeper plans, which require some dumbing down of traditional exploration as a first step to be implemented... perhaps. But if that is the case it is probably a good idea to share them with your playerbase before the confidence level goes too low; besides, judging from the questionable "design" decisions you have taken (quotes inspired by the impression that there has been almost no design at all involved in some of the changes), you have probably tons of good feedback to gain from experienced explorers even if that were the case.
On the other hand, if you really had nothing in store beyond what you have done... ...I just would have no words to express my disappointement.
Hope you manage to fix things, I really do. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
2014
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 23:00:00 -
[444] - Quote
You look to have removed the 2 dot result from 3 probes. Now you only get one dot and it's the incorrect one. Is this a bug? I hope so, it's very frustrating. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
114
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 03:22:00 -
[445] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:You look to have removed the 2 dot result from 3 probes. Now you only get one dot and it's the incorrect one. Is this a bug? I hope so, it's very frustrating.
You're doing it wrong; you should use eight probes like a real explorer. </;sarcasm> |
Space Wanderer
117
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 06:58:00 -
[446] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:You look to have removed the 2 dot result from 3 probes. Now you only get one dot and it's the incorrect one. Is this a bug? I hope so, it's very frustrating.
Well, about time somebody else noticed. Actually the dot you get is not always the incorrect one (might be the correct one), but given the scanning mechanic it really does not make sense to have only one dot. I found that issue during beta time on SISI, and submitted bug report #157705, as well as mentioning it in the proper feedback thread. Considering that the bug report has been attached to a defect, but not closed, I assume that it is a bug, although an unfixed one. |
Rhapsodae
Bedlam Escapees Silent Requiem
36
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 22:12:00 -
[447] - Quote
And still no sign of CCP comments. im gobsmacked. Why the hell to they post it as dev blogs if they make a dayjob of ignoring this?
Jitters 4-4: Eve Online Comic. |
Space Wanderer
121
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 11:45:00 -
[448] - Quote
Rhapsodae wrote:And still no sign of CCP comments. im gobsmacked. Why the hell to they post it as dev blogs if they make a dayjob of ignoring this?
Well, they post them for their own benefit, not ours. Even if they don't reply that still allows them to gauge how well the blog is received. On the other hand, if they ignore negative feedback too much they are probably going to give the impression that they don't give a damn... |
Rhapsodae
Bedlam Escapees Silent Requiem
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 14:06:00 -
[449] - Quote
Hopefully this gets the attention of the the CSM and the use their "Balls-Vice" combo. Jitters 4-4: Eve Online Comic. |
Rhapsodae
Bedlam Escapees Silent Requiem
40
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 05:09:00 -
[450] - Quote
slightly infuriating
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/exploration-sites-statistics/
assholes Jitters 4-4: Eve Online Comic. |
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Hulasikali Walla
Never Mind the Bollocks
29
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 19:49:00 -
[451] - Quote
Quote:Exploration in Eve something tells us you like it We've been using all sorts of voodoo like "usage data" and "math" to see how the new exploration features of Odyssey have been received by the community. So far, it seems like exploration is a thing GÇô a good thing. CCP Bayesian shares some of the high-level data with you in Exploration Sites in Odyssey GÇô It's Graph Time! If you haven't checked out the new expansion yet; log in, patch up and get exploring! Info on what's new in the latest expansion can be found on the Odyssey Feature Site.
LOL
Must be a Jully fool's day joke |
Space Wanderer
121
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 08:04:00 -
[452] - Quote
Hulasikali Walla wrote:Must be a July fool's day joke
Don't get me started... |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 23:17:00 -
[453] - Quote
Sissy Fuzz wrote:Chribba wrote:It's getting closer... What?!? That Touborg is out of a job? Or?
I am a profet. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11594
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 03:50:00 -
[454] - Quote
Gonna post my 2 ISK worth of opinion here as well.
I believe the Odyssey expansion has dumbed down and nerfed exploration all the way back to the stone age.
CCP Dev's need to create a newb character and play this game before trying to make it better.
DMC |
Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
50
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 07:25:00 -
[455] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Gonna post my 2 ISK worth of opinion here as well.
I believe the Odyssey expansion has dumbed down and nerfed exploration all the way back to the stone age.
CCP Dev's need to create a newb character and play this game before trying to make it better.
DMC
100 % agree
There is no more excitement, no mystery, no way to excel. I knew people before last expansion that were very good at scanning, these guys were pro and reputation in eve is also something you know. If you good at something and someone is taking it from you....... V |
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