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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 53 post(s) |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:03:00 -
[151] - Quote
Sharing with you the awesome abomination that i used to run null sec sites last night:
http://i.imgur.com/zzsBLLI.jpg
That's the future of exploration right there. A new ship for a new generation. |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
106
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:09:00 -
[152] - Quote
One of the ideas I had for Archaeology was a new skill, 'Iconography', used for studying cultural objects you discovered.
I'm thinking it (or something similar) could be repurposed for the hacking game. Allowing you to decipher markings and obscure languages on the hulls of hacking and relic objects, as I imagine spaceships and stations have labels for access panels and data terminals, indicating their function. Increasing levels of the skill could provide hints to possible locations of defences, cores and utilities found during hacking. Each level adds a one node radius to detection of active nodes but not what type it is...
This could add that layer of strategy some people have wanted. I choose to believe what I was PROGRAMMED to believe! |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
106
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:11:00 -
[153] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:Sharing with you the awesome abomination that i used to run null sec sites last night: http://i.imgur.com/zzsBLLI.jpgThat's the future of exploration right there. A new ship for a new generation.
How'd you get a Covert-Op cloak on a Noctis? Aren't they limited to covert ships?
I choose to believe what I was PROGRAMMED to believe! |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:13:00 -
[154] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote: How'd you get a Covert-Op cloak on a Noctis? Aren't they limited to covert ships?
It's a Tengu. That's just the name of the fit |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
106
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:16:00 -
[155] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:Naomi Hale wrote: How'd you get a Covert-Op cloak on a Noctis? Aren't they limited to covert ships?
It's a Tengu. That's just the name of the fit
Ah, I see it now... oops
I choose to believe what I was PROGRAMMED to believe! |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
14
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:30:00 -
[156] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:Sharing with you the awesome abomination that i used to run null sec sites last night: http://i.imgur.com/zzsBLLI.jpgThat's the future of exploration right there. A new ship for a new generation.
The fit whispered to me last night: ''Kill me, it hurts to liiiiiive''
Honestly, if you have to use a T3 for this, have CCP give us a T2 Noctis with an AoE vacuum tractor.
Kudos for making it work, though. I'm running a similar fit on a Stabber, but now my ''low'' hacking skills cause me to give up on nullsec sites. |
Tryaha
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:31:00 -
[157] - Quote
Kahns wrote:Sure...
- It's really unresponsive. There's no feedback for when you've got one locked up and it will tractor, when it ends, when you've failed because the item is out of range. And it's all very slow, from the tractoring, to getting to groups of cans in even a fast ship, etc. I feel like when I wind up not tractoring a can I have no idea why it's not working or what I need to do to fix the situation. Again, feedback.
- We do not have direct control of our ships, so don't expect it from us! Moving towards floating cans that you can't select in the overview highlights some of the worst parts of how Eve's ship control mechanics work. It was already frustrating to nimbly move our ships around in Eve, we just typically didn't have to do it. As you know, we don't have direct control of our ships, but in this case you're basically asking us to pretend we do.
- This ties into the first two points, but 9/10 times I don't feel like I lost loot because of something I did... I lost loot because I got stuck on something, the interface broke in some weird way, or my cargo was full because I picked up something massive and now I don't get to pick up anything more until it all disappears.
- It's completely inconsistent with the metaphors you've used elsewhere in the game. Clicking on something doesn't bring something towards you anywhere but in this one single little mini-game. Worse yet, you've got the metaphor of tractoring using a module elsewhere in the game and it works completely differently. It's just bad design!
- I'm still encountering situations where the loot shoots into a structure and I can't get it, or spews the opposite of where I am and if I double click on the loot I just... navigate into the wall. It sucks.
Again, if you simply removed having to move your ship around and made the items disappear after a certain amount of time, so it was really just grabbing as much loot as you could whack a mole style, it would still be whole-ly inconsistent and out of some Facebook game, but at least it wouldn't seem broken and frusterating and it would far more be in line with what you advertised at Fanfest.
Please listen to this man.
I like the hacking minigame, why not just keep the sites as they are on TQ atm (with rats!) and just "secure" the cans with the hacking minigame, there should be no reason to put the loot pinata in.
If you want the loot pinata, just put it on the cans as punishment for a failed attempt (and make them fly out faster)
If it goes live as it currently is, i'm sure there will be alot of unhappy explorers and knowing CCP, things won't get fixed that quick.
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Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
14
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:38:00 -
[158] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:One of the ideas I had for Archaeology was a new skill, 'Iconography', used for studying cultural objects you discovered.
I'm thinking it (or something similar) could be repurposed for the hacking game. Allowing you to decipher markings and obscure languages on the hulls of hacking and relic objects, as I imagine spaceships and stations have labels for access panels and data terminals, indicating their function. Increasing levels of the skill could provide hints to possible locations of defences, cores and utilities found during hacking. Each level adds a one node radius to detection of active nodes but not what type it is...
This could add that layer of strategy some people have wanted.
I was thinking of a minesweeper-like warning system, but that seems fun.
Have them be random symbols but have an arrow point towards the system core or the nearest bonus if you successfully use a relevant analyzer-derived clue chip. (have them be of varying accuracy, like a Sansha guest pass (highsec) point you towards the nearest bad node, a Sansha password (lowsec) point you towards the nearest bonus and a Sansha root password (nullsec) point you to the system core. Now you have the option of using those or harvesting and selling them. Would also force people to traffic between high low and nullsec wih their exploration.
EDIT: In hindsight, have the clues be generated through archeology and change the arch mechanics acoordingly. Would be fun having the two professions interact without literally sharing a minigame as it stands now. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:48:00 -
[159] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote: The fit whispered to me last night: ''Kill me, it hurts to liiiiiive''
Pretty much what all the new fits that i come up with scream. Anything that helps with survivability is gonna compromise the hacking and loot amount. The containers being directly at or close to warp in point doesn't help either. You're pretty much a fly waiting to get squashed. So might as well go full on risk and hope the higher loot amount sets of the unavoidable losses.
Not gonna fly this 400m piece of art into nullsec on TQ tho if the loots stays as poor as it is. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
187
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Posted - 2013.05.29 13:52:00 -
[160] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:Castelo Selva wrote:For the love of Gods, please apply to work for CCP! And please post it on the features & Ideas. I will direct everyone that I know to support it!
Forward this to all CSM members! Let-¦s start the revolution!!!
F&I Re-postLike I said, it's how I'd like it to be in an ideal world, but I think feasibility and practicality stop something like it being made. I'm also unsure the idea could be justified over already present features needing attention. Fleshing out the likes of PI, Epic Missions, EVE Lore, Incarna and the new hacking feature would however lead to something like my idea being more realistic. So we need to be patient. I'm not an expert on the system, but I think a scrum based development model stops some of the more widespread features and ideas from being added or made in EVE as the small teams are tightly focused on their goals (not a bad thing). That said, CCP Seagull did give the impression of a more cross team communication and collaboration of goals and a more epic scope for EVE's future, so it's looking good.
I absolutely love your proposal there - it's close to what I was hoping for when I took up exploring.
What I do know for now is that I won't be training Hacking or Archaeology to V as I had intended as, regardless of how much fun the mini-game is, I stand no chance of collecting anything worth a damn from the cans (I'm developing arthritis and I usually play EVE on an 11" laptop, yes I have a good graphics card and a decent gaming mouse) given my test runs on SiSi.
Current results - data sites take a little longer to complete than TQ radar sites (so slightly higher exposure risk) with vastly reduced income.
No, I will not be configuring my ship to optimise its can-grabbing as swapping ships for a data site will likely mean someone else will have taken it by the time I get there. |
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CCP Prime
C C P C C P Alliance
36
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Posted - 2013.05.29 14:16:00 -
[161] - Quote
So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at. It'll make chasing them almost unneeded. Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot. The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.
Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.
We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release. Programmer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce
502
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Posted - 2013.05.29 14:29:00 -
[162] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at. It'll make chasing them almost unneeded. Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot. The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.
Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.
We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release. Looks better. Great job. |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
53
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Posted - 2013.05.29 14:39:00 -
[163] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at. It'll make chasing them almost unneeded. Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot. The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.
Is this live on Sisi right now?
I asked in the old feedback thread but got no answer, so i'll ask here again: Is it on purpose that you lose a can if you are clicking on the next one too early? And is it tied to this sound which is played when the can is in scoop-to-cargo-range after you tractor-beamed them there? Can you fix the sound, so i can have feedback when to click the next can? right now the sound plays too early and my cans get lost because i am clicking the next one too early. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
112
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Posted - 2013.05.29 14:46:00 -
[164] - Quote
I finally hacked a few times yesterday. To be honest the whole thing feels...random. And I am not talking about the loot pinata at the end.
The hacking games itself lacks strategy and purpose. There seems to be no actual strategy to all the clicking. You just click on all the nodes until you hit the core. There is no reason I would click this node or that node, They all look the same and they all feel the same. From that perspective I just have to keep clicking nodes, it doesn't matter the order or sequence or position they are in. Ther eis no thought process or desicion making I have to do when choosing this node over that node when clicking.
Please correct me if i'm wrong , but I don't see the "gameplay" in the minigame. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
886
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Posted - 2013.05.29 14:55:00 -
[165] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:I finally hacked a few times yesterday. To be honest the whole thing feels...random. And I am not talking about the loot pinata at the end.
The hacking games itself lacks strategy and purpose. There seems to be no actual strategy to all the clicking. You just click on all the nodes until you hit the core. There is no reason I would click this node or that node, They all look the same and they all feel the same. From that perspective I just have to keep clicking nodes, it doesn't matter the order or sequence or position they are in. Ther eis no thought process or desicion making I have to do when choosing this node over that node when clicking.
Please correct me if i'm wrong , but I don't see the "gameplay" in the minigame.
you can click around a firewall if you actually can, but that's it for now.
i really hope to see some more depth in this in a future release We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
167
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:01:00 -
[166] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:I finally hacked a few times yesterday. To be honest the whole thing feels...random. And I am not talking about the loot pinata at the end.
The hacking games itself lacks strategy and purpose. There seems to be no actual strategy to all the clicking. You just click on all the nodes until you hit the core. There is no reason I would click this node or that node, They all look the same and they all feel the same. From that perspective I just have to keep clicking nodes, it doesn't matter the order or sequence or position they are in. Ther eis no thought process or desicion making I have to do when choosing this node over that node when clicking.
Please correct me if i'm wrong , but I don't see the "gameplay" in the minigame. Yeah it is pretty limited, but there is a miniscule amount of strategy involved in building your lines out in order to minimize the impact of Firewalls etc. It's mostly common sense, but yeah, other than that it's just "click everything'. They say it will be "iterated on Soon(tm)".
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Sheena Tzash
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:11:00 -
[167] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at. It'll make chasing them almost unneeded. Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot. The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.
Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.
We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release.
1) If the speed is much slower now is it actually possible to get 100% of the ejected loot? 2) If the cans are now named will they show on the overview or will you have to spend time mousing over each can to find out whats in it before you click it?
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Nicola Arman
Saiph Industries Upholders
23
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:19:00 -
[168] - Quote
Is Loot really the only difference between the new Relic and Data sites?
Both are the same minigame?? |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
14
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:36:00 -
[169] - Quote
Salpun wrote:CCP Prime wrote:So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at. It'll make chasing them almost unneeded. Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot. The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.
Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.
We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release. Looks better. Great job.
CCP LISTENING to the forums?
CCP Prime is now my Developer Jesus. |
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CCP Prime
C C P C C P Alliance
37
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:44:00 -
[170] - Quote
Sheena Tzash wrote:CCP Prime wrote:So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at. It'll make chasing them almost unneeded. Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot. The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.
Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.
We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release. 1) If the speed is much slower now is it actually possible to get 100% of the ejected loot? 2) If the cans are now named will they show on the overview or will you have to spend time mousing over each can to find out whats in it before you click it?
1) No. By design a one player is never meant to be able to catch all cans. Hence the constant take time and the expiring of stuff. 2) They still will not show on the overview. We want players to actually use our space view. It is a challenge in 3D based decision making and for CCP it is a challenge to improve whatever needs improving when you have to deal with things directly in space. Programmer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
316
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:48:00 -
[171] - Quote
Nubchucker wrote:I was pretty excited when I first read about the changes.
Finally I can do hacking/arch/exploration in an all in one ship \o/.
Imagine my disappointment to find T1 ships have a bonus to virus strength and T2 doesn't.
Basically due to the new hacking rigs etc I STILL need 2 ships.. A covert ops to scan the sites down and a T1 to run the site.
Seems stupid to me
Yeah, imagine that, CCP not actually testing something. Never happens though...ever...
Also, on a side note...don't those same T1 hulls have a drone bay, to...i don't know....defend themselves...whereas, the T2 hulls...ummm...don't??!?!?!
Again with the boneheaded 'designing while in a very small single minded box' ideas that somehow escape reason.
Also, planing on doing anything about the sites uber-stacked objects melting video cards? If it ships as its current form, i know a few ppl whose GFX cards WILL get damaged by heat if they attempt to do one of these new shiney great idea sites. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
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CCP Bayesian
813
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:49:00 -
[172] - Quote
With respect to the Hacking strategy itself there are definite strategies that are not entirely obvious that allow you to be much more successful as it currently stands. Clicking randomly is provably less successful than applying some thought. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1074
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:50:00 -
[173] - Quote
How will you Handle loot distribution in the scattered cans? As of right now they is a lot junk and only a few with treasure, a cargo scanner on the hacking container reveals what is in there and how much stuff is in there, this confirms that only a few cans will be worth grabbing. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1913
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Posted - 2013.05.29 15:52:00 -
[174] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Sheena Tzash wrote:CCP Prime wrote:So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at. It'll make chasing them almost unneeded. Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot. The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.
Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.
We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release. 1) If the speed is much slower now is it actually possible to get 100% of the ejected loot? 2) If the cans are now named will they show on the overview or will you have to spend time mousing over each can to find out whats in it before you click it? 1) No. By design a one player is never meant to be able to catch all cans. Hence the constant take time and the expiring of stuff. 2) They still will not show on the overview. We want players to actually use our space view. It is a challenge in 3D based decision making and for CCP it is a challenge to improve whatever needs improving when you have to deal with things directly in space. Maybe we need "sticky mice". That is the pointer starts following things I set it on. Sort of like sticky aiming in Dust. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Sheena Tzash
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:00:00 -
[175] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:With respect to the Hacking strategy itself there are definite strategies that are not entirely obvious that allow you to be much more successful as it currently stands. Clicking randomly is provably less successful than applying some thought.
What thought can really be applied? What feedback do we get from the mini game that says any combination of nodes or lines is better than any other?
YOU know that its better because you've been involved in the development of the mini game, but we don't and without any feedback to tell us "that was good, keep doing it" or "this is a bad idea, try something else" the only thought we have left is "click nodes randomly"
My approach is generally keep clicking down a line until I hit a firewall and then try another path - but again I don't have a clear objective or node to activate to know HOW to win the mini game - so any prospect of thought or strategy is pretty much redundant when the success conditions are random and unknown. |
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CCP Prime
C C P C C P Alliance
37
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:05:00 -
[176] - Quote
Quote:Maybe we need "sticky mice". That is the pointer starts following things I set it on. Sort of like sticky aiming in Dust.
Indeed, we've already (not out on SiSi though) changed it so that the command to take happens when the mouse button goes down as opposed to up.
If we get to iterate, ideas like a magnetic mouse, bracket selection prediction etc are on the table because they would improve the eve experience not only for this feature, but for the game in general.
Programmer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
886
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:08:00 -
[177] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Quote:Maybe we need "sticky mice". That is the pointer starts following things I set it on. Sort of like sticky aiming in Dust. Indeed, we've already (not out on SiSi though) changed it so that the command to take happens when the mouse button goes down as opposed to up. If we get to iterate, ideas like a magnetic mouse, bracket selection prediction etc are on the table because they would improve the eve experience not only for this feature, but for the game in general.
any chance for a "freeze brackets" button ? much like STRG did with the overview some time ago We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
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Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
74
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:15:00 -
[178] - Quote
The loot spewing out slower doesn't that make one problem worse while improving on another? Personaly i have a problem especially right in the beginning when all cans are close to each other to pick the right can that i want or not by accident clicking on something else like the containers or whatever else stuff is floating around there. It would have been better to tweak the range and the speed of the tractor instead. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
112
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:18:00 -
[179] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:With respect to the Hacking strategy itself there are definite strategies that are not entirely obvious that allow you to be much more successful as it currently stands. Clicking randomly is provably less successful than applying some thought.
That being the case, there's still no feedback to the player that tells him if he is doing something better than the last time or not.
- Do you mean that the number and location of firewalls is not predefined when the graphs is initially presented?
- Do you mean that by clicking the nodes in a different sequence I will find more or less firewalls in different spots?
- Do you mean the strength of those firewalls changes depending on the sequence and location of nodes I click?
Even if this is the case and no feedback is still not presented to the player, it will be good to know. As it stands now it seems to me that we are only uncovering nodes that have already been preset and configured when the graph is built in the first place.
If the layout is truly dynamic and get built and decided as the player goes along, it would be nice to have some kind of overall indicator on our performance,. It could be a simple "system integrity" indicator in green-yellow-red that tells us how well we are doing or if we are digging ourselves in a hole. |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1075
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:20:00 -
[180] - Quote
Got an easy one ( kinda off topic though), did the mirror every happen? Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
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