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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 53 post(s) |
Galatea Galilei
Profoundly Inquisitive Exploration
30
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Posted - 2013.06.04 10:34:00 -
[541] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Kel hound, I'll quote myself from the previous page: Quote:Adding things to the overview, this is really an option of last resort that I think fixes things which are usability defects. It's the "easy way out" as it's the workaround in EVE to dealing with the problems that exist interacting with things in the scene. I don't think we're dead set against it but would prefer to make the space interaction work.
The only way space interaction will work here is if the objects don't move. I can't click on a moving icon to save my life. If these things are moving and not appearing on the overview... that effectively ends my career in EVE. Loot from exploration will be simply irretrievable... |
Tsubutai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
209
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 10:41:00 -
[542] - Quote
Final trip report before this goes live. Ran a Ruined Sansha Temple Site (relic) in my tengu with 120/40 coherence/strength. The minigame puzzles seemed a little tougher than they were in the previous version, although that may just have been down to the RNG rather than a real change. Regardless, was able to access all of the cans. Site took 18 minutes to complete and yielded 330m of T2 salvage; the only potentially valuable drop I missed was a stack of Spatial Attunement Units.
I'm a little concerned about the disttribution of loot within the hacking cans and the effects this might have on site completion. Here's a screenshot for reference, showing the scanned contents of three unhacked cans: http://i.imgur.com/KEVOjvn.png
The loot in the leftmost can is completely worthless (<1m ISK), the center can is worth a few million, and the rightmost can is worth well over 100m. If this occurred on TQ, I'd expect most people to prioritize the rightmost can, then do the central one, and completely ignore the leftmost one. However, if the leftmost can isn't hacked to complete the site, it won't despawn, so you may end up with a bunch of partially-completed sites that have been stripped of all the good loot but can't despawn because they still have a few unhacked cans that contain only junk. That'd be pretty frustrating for anyone who came through the region to do exploration afterwards, especially since uncompleted sites persist for several days. Ideally, every hacking container would have enough loot to warrant hacking so as to prevent this. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
573
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 11:20:00 -
[543] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:What wasn't on scan that you got? so, checked the vids. its Carbon, Data Sheets and Hydrogen Batteries which werent in scan result but dropped from cans.
And a completely different matter CCP, why do you put T1 salvage crap into loot tables? Seriously, noone cares about T1 salvage since the introduction of the Noctis it has become totally worthless. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 12:21:00 -
[544] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:I specifically said it was a crude measure; the point is that the high end 0.0 hacking sites are now quite lucrative, to the point that they are at least competitive with the high end combat sites. As such, they should require a similar investment to run, and farming them should entail similar levels of risk. You'd be lucky to get multiple billions for your two hours given that there will be a few minutes of moving from system to system and probing in between running sites, but I'd be surprised if you didn't get a few hundred million assuming you have appropriate skills, are reasonably good at the hacking minigame, and are in blue space or a quiet backwater.
You had intact armor plates and a good bpc in the site that you use as a measure. That's a jackpot, not the norm. In the weeks of testing i didn't luck into a nullsec site that yielded me over 100m. So your math is quite off from my perspective. You assume all sites are as great as your jackpot when they really arn't. In the dev blog it was said the faction pos bpc drop is very very rare so i doubt it can be compared with the rate of good drops from combat sites.
Granted i have not much experience with nullsec exploration on TQ. Will start doing it this week, see if its worth it. Don't think its worth doing the profession sites in hisec and low sec as a main profession, except for new players. To my knowledge the sites in nullsec are tied to the industry index so in your "quiet backwater" ther's probably a whole lot of nothing. People who have done nullsec profession sites in the past say you have to be lucky to find one in the wastelands. So i have to look for them in populated areas, which i assume makes it not idiot proof farming for a neutral. For people surrounded by blues that's a different story but should have no bearing on how its like for neutrals. If it's too easy for them then CCP should perhaps look into randomizing the spawns all over null. That would make more sense anyway as long as the profession is called exploration and an actual incentive to go out into the deeper regions to find riches.
Quote:However, if the leftmost can isn't hacked to complete the site, it won't despawn, so you may end up with a bunch of partially-completed sites that have been stripped of all the good loot but can't despawn because they still have a few unhacked cans that contain only junk.
Profession sites despawn when you warp out no matter if completed or not. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
196
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 14:51:00 -
[545] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:Tsubutai wrote:However, if the leftmost can isn't hacked to complete the site, it won't despawn, so you may end up with a bunch of partially-completed sites that have been stripped of all the good loot but can't despawn because they still have a few unhacked cans that contain only junk. Profession sites despawn when you warp out no matter if completed or not.
Are we absolutely sure that is still the case now on TQ as that doesn't appear to be how it's been on SiSi? |
Tyco Iinuit
Grey Dawn Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 16:11:00 -
[546] - Quote
I think the minigame is fun and adds a lot of depth to the exploration mechanics, but the loot scattering is very annoying and frustating. You can get ridiculous loots of like 2000 isk when at the older system never happened this. The rewarding cerebral circuit is not rewarded at all with this mechanic!!! We play at the end of day for our neurotransmisor dose n and this mechanic is not FUN at all, you always end with the sensation of having lose not won. Exploration was mean to be a lonely profession, and it was ok, for lonewolfs. yes to minigame no to loot ejecting. |
Radgette
New Eden Renegades
16
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Posted - 2013.06.04 16:12:00 -
[547] - Quote
Ok so i tried some of these on TQ today and ran into a small problem.
In my cov ops frigs if i try to collect the cans while moving the minin tractor beam slingshots the can past my ship and it takes twice as long to loot meaning i miss a whole bunch of stuff in the site that despawns as i'm chasing this can about.
Perhaps increase the speed of the mini tractor beam so if your in a fast ship your not penalised for clicking on the items.
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Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
196
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 16:16:00 -
[548] - Quote
Radgette wrote:Ok so i tried some of these on TQ today and ran into a small problem.
In my cov ops frigs if i try to collect the cans while moving the minin tractor beam slingshots the can past my ship and it takes twice as long to loot meaning i miss a whole bunch of stuff in the site that despawns as i'm chasing this can about.
Perhaps increase the speed of the mini tractor beam so if your in a fast ship your not penalised for clicking on the items.
Or you could set your max speed down a lot |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 16:50:00 -
[549] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Are we absolutely sure that is still the case now on TQ as that doesn't appear to be how it's been on SiSi?
Been like that for me on Sisi. Someone said it always was like that. So i assume its still the case unless the've changed it in one of the recent updates. |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
196
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 17:23:00 -
[550] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Are we absolutely sure that is still the case now on TQ as that doesn't appear to be how it's been on SiSi? Been like that for me on Sisi. Someone said it always was like that. So i assume its still the case unless the've changed it in one of the recent updates.
I had a couple of sites that I could warp to after failing. |
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Schluffi Schluffelsen
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 19:39:00 -
[551] - Quote
TLDR:
+ scanning down the sites is way more comfortable
negative:
- mini-game doesn't add variety, it gets monotone like just letting a mod run a cycle - long-term motivation/fun meh - scattering...? why? let's make it simple, survey how many sites will be done by a team of explorers - my guess, you can count them on one hand in the whole community - a clear distinction between the different kind of cans and what they contain would be more useful - completed cans only show up "touched" (darkened) on overview not on the actual HUD - 50 km between cans, why? - the sites look horrible and make me want to kill myself due to eye cancer
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Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
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Posted - 2013.06.04 20:15:00 -
[552] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:I had a couple of sites that I could warp to after failing.
On TQ i warped out of a site with two cans not completed today and the site immediately despawned. |
Aldo Hanso
The Red Circle Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:26:00 -
[553] - Quote
TL;DR - Love the hacking minigame, no complaints!
Just did my first hacking site today in nullsec, and I really liked it. I have seen a lot of critical responses to the "lootsplosion," but I saw it as part of the new game that didn't exist yesterday. Sure, I didn't get every can (I was solo), but I didn't care, 'cause to me it was part of the experience of feeling like I'm actually living in space. It was also very cool to be able to go to a nullsec site, not worry about combat at all, and really get into hacking. I didn't bother to learn much about it prior, and instead decided to just learn by doing. Totally worth it, as I pulled in some decent loot, exploded other cans, and was genuinely perplexed by the defensive nodes. It was actually challenging to try to do the math and keep eyes on local/overview at the same time. I can't believe I didn't get ganked.
Also, as a wormhole resident, I cannot express enough how great the new scanning mechanics are. It was so much more efficient. I do admit, it was almost too easy, but you better not change it. You had me at "pinpoint formation."
Well done, CCP.
Aldo Hanso |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
81
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:55:00 -
[554] - Quote
First impressions from TQ:
Did a bunch of sites in nullsec today. Loot average around 100m per site. That's better then i ever managed on Sisi. Had luck with two stacks of intact armor plates tho. They make like 60% of my todays loot value. Data sites were a bit meh in comparison to the Relic sites. But overall i can't complain.
Strangly the minigame i found a bit more annoying then the loot spew today. I think that is because i never found multiple nullsec sites on Sisi. When doing multiple sites in a row the clicking is a bit extreme. But i think that can be fixed with a smaller grid where instead more time is spent thinking about strategic moves instead of just clicking, clicking, clicking. Some of the minigames were a bit nuts in regard to difficulty but i didnt lose too many containers. I lost more containers by dodging locals.
One site despawned out of nowhere. Someone jumped into the system and started scanning, i cloaked up and tried to get a bit of distance between me and the containers. I really wasn't far out only like 30-40km and suddenly the despawn triggered. Maybe that trigger area could be made a bit bigger.
In summary the nullsec sites felt well balanced to me in regard to difficulty and loot but ther's plenty room to make them more enjoyable. All in all i feel a bit more positive about it after trying it on TQ. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
164
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 01:56:00 -
[555] - Quote
Still a terrible new mechanism. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
573
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 02:13:00 -
[556] - Quote
after doing a sh*tload of hackings now after 2 evenings I believe its a big waste of time doing them as profession. You might complete 2-3 of them and get lucky with drop, then wasting next 20 hours for almost nothing. Not worth the effort IMO. |
Lephardo Gruntexia
Chaos Level 5 Elemental Tide
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 09:45:00 -
[557] - Quote
Pretty hard to get the cans if you ask me. And if i reach them many times i have just got bad scraps and data sheets -.-" And to make the whole system harder, bonus globes can turn into virus and raise it strength by other virus systems. The system isnt good in my opinion.
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Ametyste Aek
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 13:26:00 -
[558] - Quote
Ran a few of them yesterday and today.
So far the paybback is terrible i'd be better just ratting. The game is repetitive as **** id rather cycle my salvager and go watch youtube. Yea sure it's fun the 2 frist time then it get old. If there was a way to improve loot or anything by performing well maybe it would be more intresting but as it is right now it's just plain dull after a few game, and also completely random with my 4/4 skills, a bad spawn of maluses and you're toasted.
The loots fairy has been terrible to me as usual, did like 15 sites, got 60 m out of it. Don't bother with that imho. |
Galatea Galilei
Profoundly Inquisitive Exploration
30
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 19:55:00 -
[559] - Quote
One more note: I was really hopeful when I read you were adding labels to the cans so you can get an idea what's in them before going after them, but alas I apparently misinterpreted that. The cans spew forth with no labels, and you have to go after them first. Only when you successfully catch one with your mouse, as the pointing is hovering over it, do you see the label. As such, they're entirely useless. They give you no indication what cans to go after, you have to go after them first to get an indication of whether they're worth going after! At that point, your choice is to click it and at least get something during the next several seconds it will take you to go after another can, or not and get absolutely nothing while chasing down another can. The only thing the label does give you that moment of taunting, "Ha ha! You just wasted your last five seconds trying to click on a scrap container! Enjoy your booby prize!"
I'm sure there are many people enjoying this loot-scatter arcade mini-game, but there's a reason why I could never get past the third wave of Missile Command. Sure, when the missiles are coming down one at a time and take a minute to reach the ground, it's easy to precisely place an explosion in its path, but when you have a dozen inbounds and less than a minute to stop them, well, let's just say living in my virtual cities was not a good experience for the poor simulated citizens...
That was fine, I just played other games... it's just... EVE was always a game that never required that kind of arcade gaming skill before. This mechanic is so utterly out of place in what has prior to this been much more a thinking game than a high hand-eye coordination game. It used to be enjoyable by the kinds of people who weren't good at Missile Command... now you cannot be a successful explorer without it. The hacking mini-game is fun, but the only reward an extraordinarily frustrating experience and three cans of scrap... it ruins the whole experience, and insures there's no real profit in it compared to the time involved. |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
440
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 21:32:00 -
[560] - Quote
The Cosmos sites seem to have been messed up Specifically they drop less of the supplies from last time A run around the Lai Dai refinery Gurista Spy station used to net 30+ armor blocks 5 gravity focuser 3 light weapons consoles and a medium weapons consoles
Now I am the king of hydrogen batteries and reports. and get 10 armor blocks 2 light weapons and a gravity focuser.
The minigame is fine though for them |
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Achaiah7
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
14
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Posted - 2013.06.06 01:36:00 -
[561] - Quote
Sorry if it's already been posted elsewhere but what about the electronics rigs that used to make hacking faster? Do they add any bonuses to the game or have they just been overlooked for now?
Thanks. |
Yur Ko
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 10:29:00 -
[562] - Quote
Achaiah7 wrote:Sorry if it's already been posted elsewhere but what about the electronics rigs that used to make hacking faster? Do they add any bonuses to the game or have they just been overlooked for now?
Thanks.
They do add Virus Coherence Bonus and also have a Access Difficulty Bonus Modifier (which probably should make those minigames easier)
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Tyco Iinuit
Grey Dawn Initiative
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 11:31:00 -
[563] - Quote
Ok. some post behind this one I said that I didn-Št like the mechanics of the scattering and some of the changes. Well, to be honest, after running 12 or so sites and traveling trough EVE I can only say that I changed my mind. I really started to enjoy the new minigame and even the loot scattering. Maybe it was only time and adaptation what I needed and feel nostalgic for the old system.
On a foot note I think cargo scanning should be eliminated from exploration relic and data sites cause it negates the scattering making you able to gather only what you want. |
Yur Ko
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 11:46:00 -
[564] - Quote
After 3 day of doing mainly exploration the feelings about this new system are mixed at best.
The best thing of the changes is obviously the new scanning overlay which makes it so much faster. Thanks for that. Yet it's not without a minor drawback -- most people would be just happy to disable it while they fly in fleet.
The hacking mini-game was interesting only during the first few sites. But as soon as you learn all the possibilities - which is soon - it definitely becomes boring. And the worst thing for me that it feels like playing poker - that is you very much dependent on luck - like in this attempt: http://imgur.com/J2vt0n9 No matter what are your skills you won't pass 4 virus suppressors + at least one restoration node (bye-bye 12 Intact Armor Plates ). Yet I feel that there is a room for improvement. If we could make an informed decisions where to move (more like in chess) it would feel much much better. And when it becomes less luck dependent you can make fewer cans to crack but with more complicated game to hack and more rewarding loot.
And here it comes to "lootsplosion"... As it is it's absolutely crappy click-fest. Of course you can bring an alt (or a friend) and catch almost all that matters but it feels so alien to Eve - even in combat you don't have to be champion of clicking to be successful. While here all you need is being able to hit minuscule rapid crap and do it fast... For now I solved this problem by bringing an alt along but IMHO it would be better to scrap it altogether, or (if you feel like keeping it) make the time before containers disappear reasonably long - like 1min - so that you can gather all you want, yet it'll leave a window for all those ninja-looters |
Yur Ko
The Sith Syndicate REFORD
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 12:37:00 -
[565] - Quote
And a new idea just hit my mind - you can keep lootsplosion (probably with even faster speed or shorter duration) for the occasion when you loose the mini-game. But if you win - you get it all conveniently laying on its place.
or
(personally I don't _really_ like it but it sounds fun) you can allow shooting at the containers to blow 'em up for those who feel like running after debris is ok, or if they're low on hacking skills or just don't feel like playing stupid games
or both for the win |
Mipe Kamach
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 12:39:00 -
[566] - Quote
Scanning I can deal with. It's a matter of patience with potential for great rewards.
Hacking I can deal with. It is the process of acquiring the reward.
Loot spewing? Now that I cannot deal with. It is like being taken away the lollipop you worked so hard for. It is a psychological thing - very undesirable one a that. You have to invest so much time, patience and effort to get to the reward only for it to slip between fingers.
TL;DR: Loot spewing is fail. You can blow frigates up with cruise missiles and even torpedoes, but the entire loot remains intact. You hack into those data/relic containers (SUCCESSFULLY, may I add) an the thing spews the hard-earned reward all over the space?
The time limit on these can is an added insult to the injury.
Take this however you will. |
Kalithia11
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.06.06 19:05:00 -
[567] - Quote
Loot spewing is my only "problem" with the entire game at this point.
I actually really enjoy the probe and hacking changes since I sank significant skills into exploration and gear. The mini-game is fun and adds an element of fear/danger having to watch your own back more than you already do.
BUT. to have your hard earned loot just vanish before your eyes is incredibly tough and brutal. I even had a friend graciously help me out and we still were hard pressed to clean up all container contents. We tried several methods, all with low speeds set and "sides" picked out so we don't try to gather the same thing. When this doesn't work, there is a major problem.
I believe CCP officially stated isk per hour would remain unchanged vs. the old system. I have hacked the same few systems for years and based on the last 2 days I'm making significantly less and working a lot harder for it.
Please listen to the community.
Suggestions:
-Failed or partial successful hacks should result in a low quality loot spew or none at all, with the current timer enabled on the items.
-Successful hacks should have no timer or a much longer timer so solo players can grab all of their hard earned contents. Abolishing loot spew for successful hacks would be a dream come true.
Please reconsider what you've done, you took something that needed a low amount of effort and doubled its difficulty while adding risk of reward loss, its completely awful.
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Rhubarb Kishunuba
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:21:00 -
[568] - Quote
This has been the most enjoyable expansion for me so far. When I first heard about it I felt like it was made just for me. Exploration has been my favorite part of the game, but it always felt limited and incomplete. Odyssy actually realizes much of the potential of exploration. The hacking minigame makes breaking into containers actually fun and interesting. Removing the monsters from sites allows me to actually explore in low sec and wormholes by myself without removing the sense of danger because I still have to hide from potential gankers(it's good that one can scan while cloaked now). The new ui for probe scanning is much better looking and intuitive to use. I love 99 percent of what you did with Odyssy. Great work.
However, I agree with many other people that the whole "pinata" mechanic just does not feel right. locating sites and unlocking their containers is slow,methodical work that I find enjoyable. Having to frantically fight with the camera while trying to pick up tiny icons with my mouse pointer while watching my hard earned loot vanish is frustrating and kills the whole experience. Imagine working overtime to complete a project at your job and having your boss say, "OK, I have your weeks worth of pay here in a stack of dollar bills and I'm going to throw them into the wind. Good luck." I think exploration should be more like mining, in that a player locates a desired object(asteroid/ice/whatever), takes his/her ship over to it,collects the desired item from it,then moves on.
My suggestion for this would be to change it so that the containers work in a way similar to how they did before. Previously, containers would be in a "locked" state by default. Using a codebreaker or analyzer would "unlock" them so they could be opened by anyone. You could make it so that once someone successfully completed the hacking minigame the container would "unlock". The containers locked/unlocked status could be conveyed to everybody nearby by having a status light change from red to green in the overview or even on the object itself. That way, the player(s) who unlocked the container would be able to take all that they earned. This solution would also be conductive to pvp. Players looking to gank and steal could stalk explorers and pounce on them when the containers they were working on went green.
On another note, I do like the idea of cooperative exploration. Maybe some containers could be labeled something like "super secure data bank" and have in their description "this device has such a secure data network that it can only be defeated by x hackers working together". To get the container opened more than one player would have to use a data/relic analyzer on it at once. Then each player would have to conquer their own portion of the game board.
Another possibility for the future might be to give hacking some kind of role outside of just exploration. PVP ewar might be one possibility. Imagine if a skilled hacker in a fleet could hack an opposing ship to disable its engines, temporarily take control of it, or produce some other negative effect.
One final thought on exploration sites: Why not sometimes have the large structures found in sites be the actual objects to be hacked instead of only used as decorations? I have always wanted to have meaningful interaction with the the big rocks, destroyed ships, abandoned stations,etc I found in sites. It would be way cooler than always working on the same things. Maybe some day in the future the large objects could even be involved with simple puzzles presented in their description |
Tabane Shinonono
Namu Corporation Factory
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 09:09:00 -
[569] - Quote
After getting a cargo scanner and knowing what kind of spew container to go for, I realised that a solo player can grab almost everything s/he is aiming for (ie, BPC/Decryptors/not so sure about t2 salvage though) without much effort.
TBH my loot that I want per container has doubled/tripled and I have not missed out on a single piece of Decryptor/BPC/Skillbook that could be dropped. Perhaps CCP could randomize or obfuscate what each spew container contains instead of like making it so easy with its parts/equipment/data/scrap containers.
Else , Decryptors might be going for 1m per pc soon at the rate we are picking them up like pebbles on the beach.
Hacking Minigame Loot Distribution : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=243898&find=unread |
Galatea Galilei
Profoundly Inquisitive Exploration
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.07 09:27:00 -
[570] - Quote
Tabane Shinonono wrote:After getting a cargo scanner and knowing what kind of spew container to go for, I realised that a solo player can grab almost everything s/he is aiming for (ie, BPC/Decryptors/not so sure about t2 salvage though) without much effort. A solo player with good dexterity, yes. Alas, for someone like me, who has great difficulty using the tiny icons in space even for stationary targets, exploration has simply become impossible, at least until the little containers show up on the overview, or we get some system like the tab-targeting in other games where you can cycle through and interact with objects in the scene using the keyboard.
Clicking on things on the overview is okay, the lines are wide enough that you only have to worry about one axis of movement (you need to get up/down right, how sideways the mouse moves while you're doing it doesn't matter), and you don't have to move very far to go from item to item, so I can do that accurately. But those tiny, tiny hitboxes for objects in space are very difficult to use on even stationary objects, and it takes me several seconds get the mouse properly over one so that I can click on it. That makes it flat-out impossible for moving objects. The only way I can get any loot at all is to just click rapidly in the general area and hope I hit something. Selecting what kind of container to grab is simply not an option. In the end, I get three or four random cans. Everything else goes up in smoke... |
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