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Resin Kadir
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Posted - 2005.09.29 14:28:00 -
[1]
I'm jsut posting this to repeat what was said in this post. We need more HAC bpo. Almost no one will make capoies becasue they take jsut as long to make as to research and we are tired of having skills with no used. I refuse to both pay 1000% more than production cost and/or wait 1/4 of my total playing time for a damn ship. You added them so we could have fun but most of us are mad about getting on then the dang then getting popped and having to way another 6 months. If not more bpo, can you atleast let use kill on sight all HAC manufactures with bpo anywhere in EVE? Please??
Can I jsut let you in on a secret as well? I originally spelt emphasize infacize. I'm a dolt. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ You sank my battleship! -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Vertigo Coalition - Should Squelch first, it was his idea! |
Arimas Talasko
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Posted - 2005.09.29 14:33:00 -
[2]
If this happens I would hope only two or three more bpos of each are seeded. Heaven forbid HACs competely lose what "prestige" factor they currently enjoy - look at elite frigates, for example. You really see more of those than you see of regular t1 frigates. Where's the elite in that?
Supremacy Keepin it Real
Originally by: Daniel Jackson PLEASE TELL US WHY, WHY DO U WANT US TO DIE, I AM JUST GOING FRIGGEN INSAIGN
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Eros Warsteiner
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Posted - 2005.09.29 14:39:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Arimas Talasko If this happens I would hope only two or three more bpos of each are seeded. Heaven forbid HACs competely lose what "prestige" factor they currently enjoy - look at elite frigates, for example. You really see more of those than you see of regular t1 frigates. Where's the elite in that?
Yeah, but the skill progression to get into an elite frig is like nothing compared to the skills needed for the HACs.
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Toaster Oven
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Posted - 2005.09.29 14:52:00 -
[4]
Also would be nice if HACs were added to agent offers.
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Mirchuska
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Posted - 2005.09.29 15:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arimas Talasko If this happens I would hope only two or three more bpos of each are seeded. Heaven forbid HACs competely lose what "prestige" factor they currently enjoy - look at elite frigates, for example. You really see more of those than you see of regular t1 frigates. Where's the elite in that?
Elite refers to their combat ability, not their exclusiveness to a small bunch of people. Why should HAC have "prestige factor"? HAC are a dime a dozen anyway.. they are hardly "rare".
TBH, a few more BPO are needed.. and/or a reduction in copy time - that would help significantly IMO. Remember OP, an item is worth however much people pay for it regardless of its build cost... So if you aren't willing to pay ofc thats ok, but lots of other people still regularly do.
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Kamate
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Posted - 2005.09.29 15:12:00 -
[6]
What hac is it that you want in particular? Just curious.
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Porro
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Posted - 2005.09.29 15:15:00 -
[7]
If they return to their usual state of availability it will be fine, with them still being hard to obtain but not ridiculous. Hopefully the starbase specialised building stuffs will lower the times.
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Resin Kadir
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Posted - 2005.09.29 15:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kamate What hac is it that you want in particular? Just curious.
Deimos in particular. And I spoke to several of the manufacturers and the gits will confess they can't take the time to sell BPC's. I'm not going to complain anymore about that. The points been made. Just want to say I can afford them but I don't feul gits by paying obscene prices.
Originally by: Toaster Oven Also would be nice if HACs were added to agent offers.
Good point. I know a friend that got a few different offers from his LEVEL 2!!! agent for Harpy's. I have had 80k lp with my level 4 agent for some time and still I see no Minnie HAC offer and I can work for every available Republic Fleet agent in game. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ You sank my battleship! -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Vertigo Coalition - Should Squelch first, it was his idea! |
Resin Kadir
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Posted - 2005.09.29 15:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Arimas Talasko If this happens I would hope only two or three more bpos of each are seeded. Heaven forbid HACs competely lose what "prestige" factor they currently enjoy - look at elite frigates, for example. You really see more of those than you see of regular t1 frigates. Where's the elite in that?
I don't care a bit about a ships "prestige." Look at 1 month old newbies getting into battleships. The battle ship should be reveared and an assault frig is a common thing because they ARE what is needed for almost anything. HAC are not for the elite mining class (who mine in sacrilege) or the PvPers who brown nose the manufacturers and keep setting back the production cache. They should be available to everyone and now that they've have considerable time in game, it's rediculous that they still aren't readily available and are over priced. Don't get off topic with your "ideals." This is for the community as a whole. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ You sank my battleship! -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Vertigo Coalition - Should Squelch first, it was his idea! |
piercer
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Posted - 2005.09.29 15:50:00 -
[10]
I agree, we needs about 2-3 more BPO's of each HAC spawned.
The availability is small and expensive.
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Imran
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Posted - 2005.09.29 16:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: piercer I agree, we needs about 2-3 more BPO's of each HAC spawned.
The availability is small and expensive.
Why do people keep saying that? 2-3 BPOS will not do **** if the people who actually get the BPO try to get one out every day, that is only 2-3 ships added to the market.
Additional BPOS is not the answer, the best course of action is reducing the fkning build time.
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Resin Kadir
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Posted - 2005.09.29 16:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Imran
Originally by: piercer I agree, we needs about 2-3 more BPO's of each HAC spawned.
The availability is small and expensive.
Why do people keep saying that? 2-3 BPOS will not do **** if the people who actually get the BPO try to get one out every day, that is only 2-3 ships added to the market.
Additional BPOS is not the answer, the best course of action is reducing the fkning build time.
I would say reducing the building and hacking the hell out of the copy time. Very good point. I'm a semi manufacturer. My alt has moved out of building and into support so I forget the real important factors. Just want to point out, a HAC is specialized indeed, but the darn things take how long to build? a Day or more and a battleship still requires more materials and takes 4 hours. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ You sank my battleship! -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Vertigo Coalition - Shoot Squelch first, it was his idea! |
franny
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Posted - 2005.09.29 16:22:00 -
[13]
1) reduced build time 2) agent offers for them(built & bpc versions) 3) seed a couple more bpo's into the 'market' 4) lower copy time and copy skills to the same as build or just slightly less, iirc someone stated you need lvl 5 to copy but lvl 4 to build |
El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.09.29 16:25:00 -
[14]
It does not take more than a day to make a HAC. They churn out at least two a day, Im told. BS are tech 1, and thus take less time to manufacture.
This isnt to say they shouldnt reduce the build time on these, I think they should. ---:::---
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2005.09.29 16:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: El Yatta It does not take more than a day to make a HAC. They churn out at least two a day, Im told. BS are tech 1, and thus take less time to manufacture.
This isnt to say they shouldnt reduce the build time on these, I think they should.
Unfortunately you have been misinformed totally - HACS take 1.5 days to manufacture. I can only make 4 and a bit per week. Decreasing the build time imho is not going to lessen the price just the probable availability.
Regards Al Thorr I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Tjakka
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Posted - 2005.09.29 16:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Tjakka on 29/09/2005 16:48:46 man its all bull**** with that more BPO'so price will go down and stuff. If you look at the market you see tons of Hac's on it, but the price is just stupid high cos the builders sell them for a lot, or those damn resellers buy large volumes and drive the waiting list up so builder has to increase there price to lower the amount of orders that are going to be made. the problem is the greed in EVE all ppl, want to make a profit ofcourse but this is just stupid if you see orders for like 5-10 hac's you can be sure its just some n00b that is buying and sell it on the market for insane prices to ppl who dont want to wait And yes maybe the building time is a problem but if you look at interceptors you see no waiting list at any building corp and still the price is like 800% the building costs so dont come with the demand/supply bull**** everytime
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HDCamper Itsim
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Posted - 2005.09.29 16:52:00 -
[17]
Well, increase the build time on Battleships. Double it. Heh Perhaps that would make them a lil less expendable and cared for too. Seeing to many rusty ships in space.
Its a bigger ship Takes more resources Takes up more space Gonna use more tools BPC's are everywhere Gonna need more clones to put it together vs a HAC - special items or not. Add (1-2) special items to require building the BS.
The Battleship should indeed have prestige, Tier/Tech 1 or not. The Battleship needs some tweakin
Buy in bulk...in advance.
The question should be is every HAC BPO in use/ producing or being researched? Only CCP would probably know that. If its not, allow another one to drop.
Everyone please return to your mining stations and refrain from depositing trash in Ammar space.
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Resin Kadir
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Posted - 2005.09.29 17:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tjakka Edited by: Tjakka on 29/09/2005 16:48:46 man its all bull**** with that more BPO'so price will go down and stuff. If you look at the market you see tons of Hac's on it, but the price is just stupid high cos the builders sell them for a lot, or those damn resellers buy large volumes and drive the waiting list up so builder has to increase there price to lower the amount of orders that are going to be made. the problem is the greed in EVE all ppl, want to make a profit ofcourse but this is just stupid if you see orders for like 5-10 hac's you can be sure its just some n00b that is buying and sell it on the market for insane prices to ppl who dont want to wait And yes maybe the building time is a problem but if you look at interceptors you see no waiting list at any building corp and still the price is like 800% the building costs so dont come with the demand/supply bull**** everytime
See tons do we? Let me let you in on a little tid bit of information. I recently made a journey to Amarr and wow! look at all teh Sacrilige. It's amazing they can be sold at 60mil and there were like 10 on the market. Now go to any other region and try to find a Deimos for under 90 mil and more than 1 under that price. First off, you WON'T find a market or escrow Deimos or Ishtar for 60, 70, or even 80 mil. If you do, someone stole it and is playing a horrible joke. Secondly, you won't find them in quantity. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ You sank my battleship! -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Vertigo Coalition - Shoot Squelch first, it was his idea! |
Resin Kadir
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Posted - 2005.09.29 17:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: HDCamper Itsim Well, increase the build time on Battleships. Double it. Heh Perhaps that would make them a lil less expendable and cared for too. Seeing to many rusty ships in space.
Its a bigger ship Takes more resources Takes up more space Gonna use more tools BPC's are everywhere Gonna need more clones to put it together vs a HAC - special items or not. Add (1-2) special items to require building the BS.
The Battleship should indeed have prestige, Tier/Tech 1 or not. The Battleship needs some tweakin
Buy in bulk...in advance.
The question should be is every HAC BPO in use/ producing or being researched? Only CCP would probably know that. If its not, allow another one to drop.
Everyone please return to your mining stations and refrain from depositing trash in Ammar space.
you're off topic. I was using BS as an example. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ You sank my battleship! -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Vertigo Coalition - Shoot Squelch first, it was his idea! |
Tjakka
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Posted - 2005.09.29 17:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Resin Kadir
Originally by: Tjakka Edited by: Tjakka on 29/09/2005 16:48:46 man its all bull**** with that more BPO'so price will go down and stuff. If you look at the market you see tons of Hac's on it, but the price is just stupid high cos the builders sell them for a lot, or those damn resellers buy large volumes and drive the waiting list up so builder has to increase there price to lower the amount of orders that are going to be made. the problem is the greed in EVE all ppl, want to make a profit ofcourse but this is just stupid if you see orders for like 5-10 hac's you can be sure its just some n00b that is buying and sell it on the market for insane prices to ppl who dont want to wait And yes maybe the building time is a problem but if you look at interceptors you see no waiting list at any building corp and still the price is like 800% the building costs so dont come with the demand/supply bull**** everytime
See tons do we? Let me let you in on a little tid bit of information. I recently made a journey to Amarr and wow! look at all teh Sacrilige. It's amazing they can be sold at 60mil and there were like 10 on the market. Now go to any other region and try to find a Deimos for under 90 mil and more than 1 under that price. First off, you WON'T find a market or escrow Deimos or Ishtar for 60, 70, or even 80 mil. If you do, someone stole it and is playing a horrible joke. Secondly, you won't find them in quantity.
Dunno where the hell you looking i see 8 ishtar on market in jita for 120mil. and i never sad they were CHEAP!!!! i sad they were overpriced so dont say things i didnt post there. and no you cant find a deimos that easy i must admit but you can get them fi you just pay enough
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.09.29 18:30:00 -
[21]
Am I right in thinking all T2 ships have the same number of BPOs in circulation? Because there's no huge shortage of AFs or Inties that I've really noticed. I'd suggest the problem here is demand, not supply...
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.09.29 19:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius Am I right in thinking all T2 ships have the same number of BPOs in circulation? Because there's no huge shortage of AFs or Inties that I've really noticed. I'd suggest the problem here is demand, not supply...
No, cause intys and AFs are frigs and thus dont have a 1.5 day build time.
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Stormfront
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Posted - 2005.09.29 19:46:00 -
[23]
Everyone should have a HAC BPO TBH.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.09.29 20:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Joerd Toastius Am I right in thinking all T2 ships have the same number of BPOs in circulation? Because there's no huge shortage of AFs or Inties that I've really noticed. I'd suggest the problem here is demand, not supply...
No, cause intys and AFs are frigs and thus dont have a 1.5 day build time.
Good point.
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Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2005.09.29 20:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Resin Kadir
Originally by: Arimas Talasko If this happens I would hope only two or three more bpos of each are seeded. Heaven forbid HACs competely lose what "prestige" factor they currently enjoy - look at elite frigates, for example. You really see more of those than you see of regular t1 frigates. Where's the elite in that?
I don't care a bit about a ships "prestige." Look at 1 month old newbies getting into battleships. The battle ship should be reveared and an assault frig is a common thing because they ARE what is needed for almost anything. HAC are not for the elite mining class (who mine in sacrilege) or the PvPers who brown nose the manufacturers and keep setting back the production cache. They should be available to everyone and now that they've have considerable time in game, it's rediculous that they still aren't readily available and are over priced. Don't get off topic with your "ideals." This is for the community as a whole.
you are simply an agry *****pot with rediculous ideas...
there is not going to be some magical overhaul that makes battleships rare... that is an impossibility and to think it was possible would make your IQ on par with a loaf of bread...
Tech 2 since th beginning was declared rare, it should remain rare and expensive and to think otherwise is contrary to what the DEV's had in mind...
Its called TECH II for a reason
quit your damned whining.
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Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2005.09.29 20:07:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Xavier Cardde on 29/09/2005 20:09:06 the reason prices remain high is that people pay for them at those prices... if you refuse to pay for them at that price someone else will...
why not just let capitalism take it's course? just because you want something cheap doesnt mean it should be found on the market cheaply....
when people stop paying the prices they prices in turn will lower...
you have about as much grounds of argument as a homeless man complaining about car prices.
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Broken Wings
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Posted - 2005.09.29 20:29:00 -
[27]
People who can afford to play those ridiculous prices will do so, just like all those people who paid fortunes for those faction frigs and cruisers when they were rare....but those prices PLUNGED when more faction frigs and cruisers were made available.
The answer for HAC's is exactly the same...make them more readily available, whether that means introducing more bpo's ,hacs as mission rewards or npc's dropping parts and bpc's i don't really mind. More sources for HACS will make these horrible waiting lists go away and lower prices. I refuse to believe we should have to wait for the next flavour of the month ship type for prices to drop
In the meanwhile, perhaps corps like NAGA (I love you NAGA ) could raise their prices for the popular HAC's...people are more than willing to pay higher and it would decrease the profit margin of these bloody people reselling zealots for 140m. I <3 my zealots but i have to support myself on pvp only and i wont pay 140m for one EVER, i will just fly other ships and shed a tear every time i blow up a HAC.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.09.29 20:50:00 -
[28]
I know a lot of people would like cheaper HACs, but has anyone seriously considered whether or not they need cheaper HACs, and whether or not the game would actually be better for everybody with cheaper HACs?
And yeah, if you're going to run a proper free market economy, IIRC it's rarely a good idea to fix prices artificially low.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.09.29 21:13:00 -
[29]
Except its not a free economy because we lack all the "freedom" of copying existing products and selling the copies, making shoddy imitations, reverse-engineering, economies of scale, and most importantly industrial growth.
if i buy the rights from say, agusta, to build their helicopters on license in asia, and im not making enough to match the demand, i can hire more people and make more choppers. In eve, i could buy out some else's bpo, but the total supply remains the same.
When youre in t2 production, your success had little to do with your skills as a producer. If your product is popular, you will have huge margins even with shoddy skills, because prices rapidly shoot up to incredible levels as soon as demand >>> supply, being that supply is rigidly limited like some quasi-communist 5-year-plan.
What we have atm is a sort of state-limited franchise-monopoly, where the state (CCP) limits the production abilities for these products, by giving a fixed amount of products built to some people (the bpo owners), who collectively hold a monopoly for the products in question.
Prices vary a bit depending on how greedy the people selling are and how popular a ship is, but its as close to a free economy as i am to being a pirate. ------------- Down for mainteinance while i look for a new pet peeve.
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.09.29 21:47:00 -
[30]
have npc's start selling them for build cost +30% and 2-3 bpo's extra wont help anything, it will have to be 30-40 new bpo's of each type to make a dent.
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