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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 32 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4844
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 04:50:00 -
[391] - Quote
Misanth wrote:You know this game has always catered for solo- as well as groups. And the rewards has always been with the groups. Corporations, and later on Alliances when you added that. The benefit of strength in numbers. Before we had player built Outposts, people could dare to venture in small scale to null, now it's nearly impossible (some of us do, I'm one of them, but we're almost extinct). Small scale PvP is about dead. Old belt-ratting that was such a great way of finding small scale PvP opportunities have been killed off and been replaced by group-centered activities (Incursions, sov-upgrade blob hubs, etc). Even the Black Ops that was quite useful in small scale has now been another tool in the hands of the blobs. Small gang PVP isn't dead at all. Just because there are lots of blobs doesn't mean you can't PVP in small groups as well, or even solo. I've done it many times.
Misanth wrote:Adding incentitives for people to group-PvE is not bad. Making it worse for soloers, is. I can only speak for myself, but after playing this game for near a decade, and at points having had 10-20 accounts running same time, the only things that been interesting to me in last few years has been WH and Exploration. I guess it's a good thing they're not making anything worse for soloers. |
Frying Doom
2458
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 04:52:00 -
[392] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: I guess it's a good thing they're not making anything worse for soloers.
Unless you want to mine in a Wormhole. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4844
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 05:06:00 -
[393] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: I guess it's a good thing they're not making anything worse for soloers.
Unless you want to mine in a Wormhole. That's really the only gripe I have about this entire thing, and I don't even play in WH space. Not sure how CCP expects ice miners in WH space to prevent being blown up by cloaked ships all the time. |
Garresh
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
159
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 07:25:00 -
[394] - Quote
I really don't get the argument that this mechanic is twitchy. Have you guys ever PvP'd in anything smaller than a battleship? When you guys have flown a frig, or ninja salvaged with mission aggro, or bit off more than you can chew and had to escape a 1v3(and succeeded), then you can talk about twitchy gameplay. As is, this mechanic isn't even remotely twitchy.
The only people this new mechanic discriminates against are those who play drunk, but that's what mining is for. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 07:37:00 -
[395] - Quote
Garresh wrote:The only people this new mechanic discriminates against are those who play drunk, but that's what mining is for.
Again I'd like to bring up bad internet connections. Try living in rural areas where substantial packet-loss occurs like all the time. Oh the fun that'll be had watching 90% of the loot drift into the void, because half your clicks were swallowed by the net demon. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4845
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 07:48:00 -
[396] - Quote
Sorry about your bad internet, but that puts you at a disadvantage for a lot more things in this game than just exploration. The game shouldn't be balanced around shoddy connections. |
Garresh
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 07:54:00 -
[397] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Sorry about your bad internet, but that puts you at a disadvantage for a lot more things in this game than just exploration. The game shouldn't be balanced around shoddy connections.
I hate to agree with this, because some allowance for lag is necessary in game design, but really, it's like 4 seconds. You've got time to react even if it lags. just click 2-3 times instead of once every 4 seconds. Seriously, depending on how a game is coded, packet loss is like the one thing in computing where clicking more actually *does* make it go faster. Well, sort of. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Caldari 5
The Element Syndicate
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:28:00 -
[398] - Quote
Garresh wrote:I really don't get the argument that this mechanic is twitchy. Have you guys ever PvP'd in anything smaller than a battleship? When you guys have flown a frig, or ninja salvaged with mission aggro, or bit off more than you can chew and had to escape a 1v3(and succeeded), then you can talk about twitchy gameplay. As is, this mechanic isn't even remotely twitchy.
The only people this new mechanic discriminates against are those who play drunk, but that's what mining is for. Given that my last Combat PvP was over 600 days ago, I can't say that I recall if it was twichy or not.
However I'm not sure where you got the idea that the new loot barf isn't twitchy, it looked like a game of wack-a-mole, click on as many loot items as you can in 30seconds. |
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:44:00 -
[399] - Quote
At the moment, we know very little about the changes.
The only thing the said was an introduction of the minigame and the vanishing loot.
What the minigame will be or how it will inpact the game is at this point unknown.
The vanishing loot looks not only stupid from a game perspective but is also quite silly seen from the 'simulation' aspect of the game. I hack a mainframe and when succesfull it ejects cans with computerparts into space! I just don't think it is plausible. The clicking afterwards is said to be for encouraging more group exploration but as far as we know now it will mostly benefit players doing it solo with their multipel alts standby to collect the cans.
But all this is actually more of a side issue. The fundamental changes to exploration skills and the new modules raise more questions.
- Will every site be detectible with just a sisters probe and some extra mid slots? Will there be very difficult to find sites requiring high skills and dedicated scanning ships? (please say yes to the latter)
-Given the new mid slot modules, is there a plan to increase the mid slots on the scanning ships? We already need two for an analyser and codebreaker.
- Do you get rid of the unknown category?
- Do the mag sites still require an analyser and a salvager or will one module be enough. If a salvager is stilll necessary, can we also use salvage drones?
- Are there plans for a new catagory of sites, since apparently we lose gravimetric. (lost moons, brown dwarfs or other deep space stuff look re,..)
Thanks
|
Andrea Griffin
352
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:51:00 -
[400] - Quote
Misanth is correct in that solo content has slowly been constrained and constricted out of this game. I don't know if these changes make it solo un-friendly, though. Getting all the loot requires more than one person. If the loot one person can collect is comparable to what you can collect already, I don't see what the problem is. Also, removal of NPCs from the sites makes it more solo friendly, since you can fit for evasion, probing, and cargo and not worry much about fitting for combat.
As long as income is relatively unchanged (or goes up a bit) I don't see how the change is unfriendly to solo activity. Maybe I'm missing something important, though. Convince me. My mind is so open that my brain might have fallen out. : > CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer. |
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Ager Agemo
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
285
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 15:41:00 -
[401] - Quote
Solkara Starlock wrote:At the moment, we know very little about the changes.
The only thing the said was an introduction of the minigame and the vanishing loot.
What the minigame will be or how it will inpact the game is at this point unknown.
The vanishing loot looks not only stupid from a game perspective but is also quite silly seen from the 'simulation' aspect of the game. I hack a mainframe and when succesfull it ejects cans with computerparts into space! I just don't think it is plausible. The clicking afterwards is said to be for encouraging more group exploration but as far as we know now it will mostly benefit players doing it solo with their multipel alts standby to collect the cans.
But all this is actually more of a side issue. The fundamental changes to exploration skills and the new modules raise more questions.
- Will every site be detectible with just a sisters probe and some extra mid slots? Will there be very difficult to find sites requiring high skills and dedicated scanning ships? (please say yes to the latter)
-Given the new mid slot modules, is there a plan to increase the mid slots on the scanning ships? We already need two for an analyser and codebreaker.
- Do you get rid of the unknown category?
- Do the mag sites still require an analyser and a salvager or will one module be enough. If a salvager is stilll necessary, can we also use salvage drones?
- Are there plans for a new catagory of sites, since apparently we lose gravimetric. (lost moons, brown dwarfs or other deep space stuff look re,..)
Thanks
you could argue you are unlocking the vacuum sealing, the lost of pressure would eject everything outside at ludicrous speeds, and since that stuff is not radiation shielded it gets obliterated by cosmic radiation. |
Talisa Latarien
Dark Tempest Enterprises IMPERIAL LEGI0N
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:02:00 -
[402] - Quote
First off, an apology if I missed something in the last 3 pages of this impressive threadnaught, but that's just too much speculation to read.
Second, not entirely sure if two (actually, three, scanning included) minigames are necessary when one ought to be enough, at least when it comes to hacking. Now, when did a blueprint or some data stored in a derelict ship suddenly turn into a physical object that has to fly out of it?
If it has to be hacking, shouldn't it be more about one minigame where you attempt to capture nodes (kudos to someone mentioning Deus Ex 3), and some of these nodes might contain data of interest, while others could be mostly useless. The whole "board" could be randomly generated, with obstacles, security hubs and all that, and some chance could also be involved based on character skills. The more data nodes someone tries to hack, the more chance of being caught by ice, and then you get nothing, and the system locks up for you for a considerable time. So it's like gambling - know when to bet and when to walk home with what you already have.
Naturally, having more people cooperate could be good to take more nodes within the time that system security is looking for them, and there will always be more nodes that are left behind, unhacked, without having a feeling of a cookie taken out of your mouth (already jettisonned, but not gathered loot).
Also, there should be no competition on who hacks first. That wouldn't be EvE. Once someone starts hacking, it's all his (and his corps) alone. Don't want to lose a site to them? Kill them, blow their ships up. Any PvP-related action against the hacker should probably break the hacking attempt (in hisec, it would also spawn CONCORD, unless legal reasons for engagement exist).
Anyway, these were my personal thoughts on what could be a better solution. Not sure if CCP is still reading this thread, and since this game is full of Special Snowflakes(tm) like me, I wouldn't hold my breath that for this particular idea to get any regard.
One thing obvious from this thread is that at least half the posters here feel some concern regarding the catch-the-loot mechanic, and that concern will probably stay till it is player-testable on SiSi. What I fear, however, is that by then the question of "how to balance it" will be the only one asked, and the fact that it is to be implemented will be carved in stone by then, if not already. Ah well, that ought to get me sad for one evening, go grab a beer and some horror flick, and be done with it. |
Haulie Berry
584
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:09:00 -
[403] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: I guess it's a good thing they're not making anything worse for soloers.
Unless you want to mine in a Wormhole. That's really the only gripe I have about this entire thing, and I don't even play in WH space. Not sure how CCP expects ice miners in WH space to prevent being blown up by cloaked ships all the time.
Be careful? Put a scout on any holes in the system?
Collapse any holes and keep a DSP out to look for new sigs?
Living in a WH is supposed to be a pain in the ass, so the argument that safely mining in WHs will take a little bit of extra effort doesn't really tug at the old heartstrings too much. |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:26:00 -
[404] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:I agree with the OP.
This new 'Mini' hacking game is a waste of time. The jettison of loot cans in a 'free 4 all' race is definitely wrong.
DMC like the current exploration contant is any different. how often did one clear a side so that some dbag in a lolnano-speeder can swoop by and empty the cans just before you are in range. the free4all is part of the deal from day 1 of exploration. If anything, this aspect is going away as a conflict driver.
My corp recently went to war with someone who did that, until we looted/ransomed back the value of what was stolen + war fees. With the new loot barf...boo hoo.. he took some cans that were going to disappear anyway... who cares? |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 17:34:00 -
[405] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote: We should still be vetoing bad ideas. I am of the opinion, twitchfest is a bad idea.
Click, wait a couple seconds, click, wait a couple seconds, etc. is a twitchfest to you? Maybe minesweeper is more your pace. You click and sit there for 4 seconds, waiting for a ~500m/s tractor beam to get the can. Others will be flying a nano frig to the can and get two to your one, if not three.
I wonder if a cruiser will even be mechanically capable of grabbing as many as a frig based on the dispersion rate.
Garresh wrote:I really don't get the argument that this mechanic is twitchy. Have you guys ever PvP'd in anything smaller than a battleship? When you guys have flown a frig, or ninja salvaged with mission aggro, or bit off more than you can chew and had to escape a 1v3(and succeeded), then you can talk about twitchy gameplay. As is, this mechanic isn't even remotely twitchy.
The only people this new mechanic discriminates against are those who play drunk, but that's what mining is for. Yes, and that doesn't mesh with the feel of a methodical academic activity like exploration. It's 95% sneaking around in a cloaked ship, probing and the hacking minigame. In the new form, it's solo PvE with no NPC adversary. Like mining. A great activity for drunk people to lose ships at do solo. If they wanted to ninja salvage in a nano slasher, they would be doing just that.
Also, apparently you've never had your client freeze/blank screen for 5 seconds before. Mine does at least every other day and I hear people ***** about it on coms on a daily basis. Thankfully, most of EvE is "slow paced" enough to where 99% of the time it doesn't matter at all. Yet.
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Ivoto
CrapCorp Holdings
62
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 19:56:00 -
[406] - Quote
It probably sucks hearing you ideas are awful, Devs, but this idea is ******.
Clicking dissolving cans? Really? Put this on SiSi so you can have more people tell you how awful this idea is.
Better yet, put this on the Odyssey info page. "NEW in Odyssey, dissolving cans that destroy loot!"
Seriously, what is the logic behind dissolving cans? I can eject **** from my cargo and it stays there for eons. What makes these cans different?
Perhaps SiSi will change my mind, but this content sucks. |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 20:54:00 -
[407] - Quote
Ivoto wrote: Seriously, what is the logic behind dissolving cans?
Well apparently despite having a jury rigging skill in the game and knowing what will happen to this loot, we are incapable of jury rigging a cargo container to the wreck to capture this depressurized explosion of fragile containers. |
Andrea Griffin
356
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 22:09:00 -
[408] - Quote
Ivoto wrote:Seriously, what is the logic behind dissolving cans? I can eject **** from my cargo and it stays there for eons. What makes these cans different? Space magic. The same space magic that gives your missiles limited range, ensures your ship is always "right side up", and limits your drone capabilities to 5 per ship regardless of your total bandwidth.
There is a place where logic has to stop for the sake of gameplay. I'm not saying that the gameplay presented here is good or bad, just that the idea of using "It isn't logical!" isn't a very good one when we're talking about immortal space ship pilots, bumping without physical damage to either party, and instantaneous communication between pilots through wormholes. CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer. |
Warcalibre
FDA Shipwrights Tri-Star Galactic Industries
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 01:14:00 -
[409] - Quote
I guess I'll be the first to say it:
2 pilots, 1 canister?
... |
Arne Aratur
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 01:18:00 -
[410] - Quote
Can we make the salvage drones do the tedious work? If not: how will it not be tedious? |
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Ivoto
CrapCorp Holdings
64
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Posted - 2013.05.03 02:20:00 -
[411] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:Ivoto wrote:Seriously, what is the logic behind dissolving cans? I can eject **** from my cargo and it stays there for eons. What makes these cans different? Space magic. The same space magic that gives your missiles limited range, ensures your ship is always "right side up", and limits your drone capabilities to 5 per ship regardless of your total bandwidth. There is a place where logic has to stop for the sake of gameplay. I'm not saying that the gameplay presented here is good or bad, just that the idea of using "It isn't logical!" isn't a very good one when we're talking about immortal space ship pilots, bumping without physical damage to either party, and instantaneous communication between pilots through wormholes. A decent argument if it werent for the fact that every other in game container doesnt disappear in a minute.
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Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2013.05.03 14:05:00 -
[412] - Quote
Just had a thought about the changes...
Have CCP re-written the Rookie tutorials?
Now that would be funny if they forgot. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 18:23:00 -
[413] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:Just had a thought about the changes...
Have CCP re-written the Rookie tutorials?
Now that would be funny if they forgot.
CCP doesn't document a damn thing. They leave that up to die hard gluttons for punishment that pay for the privilege. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
blink alt
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 22:34:00 -
[414] - Quote
I was trying to parse the demo at fanfest but couldn't tell. Signatures still spawning within 0 to 5 aus of a celestial? |
Viceran Phaedra
Instar Heavy Industries
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 00:37:00 -
[415] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:So lets break it on down:
EVE Players: Give us new stuff in the game
(CCP gives new "never before seen in EVE" stuffs)
EVE Players: Noooooooo, we've never seen this before but we already know we don't like it, give us stuff that looks exactly like stuff we've seen a million times!!!
(CCP gives stuff seen millions of times before)
EVE Players: CCP is bad because they never give new stuff.
Conclusion: you couldn't pay me enough to work for ccp in any capacity where i had to look at any forum ever.
Oh god. This thread. My sides. "It's different! I'm scared! I hate it! I have less than half the information but more than a whole opinion!"
You precious little creatures.
I'm looking forward to it. It's new content. It's something different. Now I can bring my Corp newbies along to help me catch cans while we chat on TS. They can have a cut of the lootz and do something inbetween having no SP and mining in a Venture. Win-win.
Those of you who don't like it, get out of my sites. __________________ Chief Executive Officer Instar Heavy Industries |
Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
109
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 01:37:00 -
[416] - Quote
Oh, I remember walking down the side walk in the city once as a kid. Huge commotion up ahead near a local bar of ill repute. When I got there I saw this big, burly, hairy, naked, man with lots of little cuts on him. The sweat rolling off him so thick he could have turned the Sahara into an oasis and he breathed like some angry rhino after one too many charges. He was ramming his genitals into a motorcycle exhaust pipe with his eyes rolled back in his head while mumbling incoherently to Jesus. All around him and the bike were alcohol bottles and little bags of pills. Some one was looking at one of the bags and turned around to the crowd and said three simple letters: PCP.
At that point I only had half the information. However, I didnGÇÖt need to take PCP to know and understand that it was some REALLY bad ****.
*Watches the fanfest exploration video excerpt again...* |
Talisa Latarien
Dark Tempest Enterprises IMPERIAL LEGI0N
22
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Posted - 2013.05.04 11:44:00 -
[417] - Quote
Viceran Phaedra wrote:
Oh god. This thread. My sides. "It's different! I'm scared! I hate it! I have less than half the information but more than a whole opinion!" ...
Like I said in my previous post, there is but one problem here. Yes, it is true, we don't have nearly half the info. Yes, we can't really make anything more than educated guesses as to how good/bad/ugly this is going to be.
The problem is, once we get the system to be sampled on SiSi as part of this fine game, it's more than likely there to stay, no matter what, even if it turns out to be a complete disaster. I'd love to be wrong about it all. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1389
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 12:15:00 -
[418] - Quote
Having thought a little about this, I think the animation where they spew out into space looks fantastic and is perfectly realistic. But turning it into a mini-game seems odd. Why exactly are they spontaneously disappearing for no reason? They should just continue to exist until you pick them up because there will still be a motivation tog et them fast. If you don't react fast enough to get one you've have to travel long distances to get it later and waste a load of time.
I think where they have tried to make it some kind of mini-game that's easier with friends is where it started to feel like some random little unrealistic mini-game. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Talisa Latarien
Dark Tempest Enterprises IMPERIAL LEGI0N
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 13:00:00 -
[419] - Quote
Indeed, make their disappearance player-related. Make them white to everyone, and if there is someone else, it's the other player, that adds the challenge, by picking cans that you probably wanted to pick yourself. Then, having more buddies is a boon, because you can take more for your corp, before the other guys manage to pick their share.
And in low/null, this would probably turn into a damn good shooting alley, so long as there are still cans on grid.
If nobody is coming, it's still possible to pick all the cans, but they should probably decelerate at such a rate to cover a sphere approximately 100km in radius, therefore making the gathering process somewhat slow, even with a tractor beam. So you can either fly cloaked, w/o mwd, or uncloak and present your nice shiny boat to everyone interested, but gather cans faster.
Win-win scenario. At least, in my book. |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny Cha Ching PLC
123
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Posted - 2013.05.04 14:20:00 -
[420] - Quote
Ivoto wrote:Andrea Griffin wrote:Ivoto wrote:Seriously, what is the logic behind dissolving cans? I can eject **** from my cargo and it stays there for eons. What makes these cans different? Space magic. The same space magic that gives your missiles limited range, ensures your ship is always "right side up", and limits your drone capabilities to 5 per ship regardless of your total bandwidth. There is a place where logic has to stop for the sake of gameplay. I'm not saying that the gameplay presented here is good or bad, just that the idea of using "It isn't logical!" isn't a very good one when we're talking about immortal space ship pilots, bumping without physical damage to either party, and instantaneous communication between pilots through wormholes. A decent argument if it werent for the fact that every other in game container doesnt disappear in a minute.
every other container did not just burst out of a wreck at drift for 50k+ years (or whatever the time span since the collaps of the eve-gate is). normal jet-cans last for 2h. anchored containers last longer. those old loot cans don't. blame it on vacuum ablation and avaricious suppliers back on old mother earth.
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