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Arronicus
Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective
564
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:that's a buff and a half! THE ABC'S HAVE BECOME SUPERVELD'S & SUPER SCORDS!!!
SPODUMAIN has become superveld. 71000 trit per refine, compared to only 10k on arkonor, and 38k on crokite. |
Kangaax
I ain't got me ground legs yet
0
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
Yey losing covetors in wh space is worth it again |
Prekaz
The Gentlemen's Corporation
68
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Some Rando wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:Hey will this effect wh space? it's technically 0.0 right? It's the ore types themselves, so grav sites... oh wait... E: Aren't grav sites being redone? If not, WHs should see this change. no grav sites from exploration aren't being touched. grav sites from sov upgrades are being turned in to anomolies, though.
Where are you getting that?
Quote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their shipGÇÖs built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance.
Doesn't seem very ambiguous, and doesn't seem to distinguish between upgrades and exploration as you're claiming. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1450
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
This looks like a sledge hammer balancing. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
DKE Milio
Freedom For Fantasy The Unthinkables
0
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Hisec miners can kiss their income goodbye, and Spod will return to being the least valuable ore in the game (adding 10k of something worth 0 ISK means you are reducing the value of that ore).
Good job, CCP. I though you were past the sledge-hammer-instead-of-a-scalpel approach to rebalancing?
10,000 trit from veldspar. 333m3 of ore 10,000 trit from spod. 4000m3 of ore. trit obtained from 4000m3 of veldspar, 120,000 you're getting 12x the trit, from veldspar than you do spod. also even at current prices, spod is already ahead of veldspar and a fall in trit prices only widens the gap due to spod's other mineral content.
This is not correct: One batch of Spod (4,000 m3) refines into 71,000 trit >> /4,000 = 17.75 trit per m3 One batch of Veld (33.3 m3) refines into 1,000 trit >> / 33.3 = 30.03 trit per m3
Conclusion: Veldspar holds 1.69x more trit (30.03/17.75). Since Spodumain is easier to mine (larger rocks) this will give a large (and much needed) buff to nullsec mining. |
Dave Stark
2871
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Prekaz wrote:Doesn't seem very ambiguous, and doesn't seem to distinguish between upgrades and exploration as you're claiming.
the first sentence
Quote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. grav sites are grav sites sov upgrades are hidden belts. hidden belts are just accessed in the same way grav sites are, currently. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
526
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
All depends if folks get out and mine or not.
Of course, this might encourage some/more Null alliances to bring in "contractors" to mine for them -- might help shape up some real development in Null.
Or not.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Quote:The focus of our Ore Mining changes in Odyssey is on ensuring that there are viable and valuable mining opportunities for players in all areas of New Eden. We want mining in low security space to be an activity worthy of the risks taken, and for Nullsec empires to rely on miners and industrialists, welcoming them into their ranks. Creating a new home for these miners also provides opportunities for pilots interested in PVP, as mining is an activity that can be both disrupted and protected by small gangs of ships.
I'm probably just blind, but I don't see any changes to Jaspet/Hemorphite/Hedbergite in that blog, so how exactly does all this mix up make mining in low-sec "worthy of the risks taken"?
It's a good shake up, one that's been needed, but I'm not seeing the changes making any difference between 0.4 and 0.1 |
5n4keyes
Sacred Templars Unclaimed.
58
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
The bottleneck will simply move to Mex and Nocx, which tbh are the harder things to get when doing large building due to compression not being so great for these.
Tho, the change of making the sites from sigs to anoms, thus making them scanable with the onboard scanner, is probably going to be a much bigger change to mining than the ores themselves! |
Prekaz
The Gentlemen's Corporation
68
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Prekaz wrote:Doesn't seem very ambiguous, and doesn't seem to distinguish between upgrades and exploration as you're claiming. the first sentence Quote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. grav sites are grav sites sov upgrades are hidden belts. hidden belts are just accessed in the same way grav sites are, currently.
Yeah, you're seriously confused. Hidden belts and grav sites are pretty clearly the same thing in that paragraph.
You would have to be daft to think that they're going to put in new ice belts (as anoms), convert upgrade-spawned sites to anoms, and leave exploration gravimetric sites as grav sigs, with the only indication being an extremely arbitrary bit of semantics. |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3288
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
And then there's replacing grav sites which require exploration, as in time spent with probes out advertising that you're looking for something or someone, with anomalies which only require pressing a button (assuming you don't have the system scanner locked on perma-scan) then selecting warp-to.
This isn't just dumbing down the game, this is screwing over miners with ill-concieved poorly thought through changes.
Turn up to the Resource Rebalancing table to watch this balding middle aged guy go apoplectic with rage over his rocks being violated.
YOU TOUCHED MY ROCKS IN A VERY NOT NICE WAY!
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Dave Stark
2871
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
DKE Milio wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Hisec miners can kiss their income goodbye, and Spod will return to being the least valuable ore in the game (adding 10k of something worth 0 ISK means you are reducing the value of that ore).
Good job, CCP. I though you were past the sledge-hammer-instead-of-a-scalpel approach to rebalancing?
10,000 trit from veldspar. 333m3 of ore 10,000 trit from spod. 4000m3 of ore. trit obtained from 4000m3 of veldspar, 120,000 you're getting 12x the trit, from veldspar than you do spod. also even at current prices, spod is already ahead of veldspar and a fall in trit prices only widens the gap due to spod's other mineral content. This is not correct: One batch of Spod (4,000 m3) refines into 71,000 trit >> /4,000 = 17.75 trit per m3 One batch of Veld (33.3 m3) refines into 1,000 trit >> / 33.3 = 30.03 trit per m3 Conclusion: Veldspar holds 1.69x more trit (30.03/17.75). Since Spodumain is easier to mine (larger rocks) this will give a large (and much needed) buff to nullsec mining.
did i bodge my maths again?
trit is 4000m3 / 33.3m3 ~ 120 batches. 120 batches * 1000 trit per batch. 120k trit.
4000m3 is 1 batch of scord. that's 71000 trit.
why the hell did i put 10k trit from 1 spod refine? i'm being a mong tonight. trying to update so many spreadsheets at once. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
Regnag Leppod wrote:Quote:The focus of our Ore Mining changes in Odyssey is on ensuring that there are viable and valuable mining opportunities for players in all areas of New Eden. We want mining in low security space to be an activity worthy of the risks taken, and for Nullsec empires to rely on miners and industrialists, welcoming them into their ranks. Creating a new home for these miners also provides opportunities for pilots interested in PVP, as mining is an activity that can be both disrupted and protected by small gangs of ships. I'm probably just blind, but I don't see any changes to Jaspet/Hemorphite/Hedbergite in that blog, so how exactly does all this mix up make mining in low-sec "worthy of the risks taken"? It's a good shake up, one that's been needed, but I'm not seeing the changes making any difference between 0.4 and 0.1
High sec ores will see a large drop in value, so low sec ores will be worth proportionately more than highsec than they were before. Low sec ice mining should be more worth doing as well, low sec ice is worth more than highsec ice, highsec ice becoming scarce means that low sec ice mining will become more worth doing after the change, and the double-speed ice harvesters will be a straight boost to lowsec ice mining, instead of a compensation for decreased availability like in highsec.
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Prekaz
The Gentlemen's Corporation
68
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:28:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:And then there's replacing grav sites which require exploration, as in time spent with probes out advertising that you're looking for something or someone, with anomalies which only require pressing a button (assuming you don't have the system scanner locked on perma-scan) then selecting warp-to.
This isn't just dumbing down the game, this is screwing over miners with ill-concieved poorly thought through changes.
Turn up to the Resource Rebalancing table to watch this balding middle aged guy go apoplectic with rage over his rocks being violated.
YOU TOUCHED MY ROCKS IN A VERY NOT NICE WAY!
The part you don't like is actually the very best part of all. |
Dave Stark
2871
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Prekaz wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Prekaz wrote:Doesn't seem very ambiguous, and doesn't seem to distinguish between upgrades and exploration as you're claiming. the first sentence Quote:We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. grav sites are grav sites sov upgrades are hidden belts. hidden belts are just accessed in the same way grav sites are, currently. Yeah, you're seriously confused. Hidden belts and grav sites are pretty clearly the same thing in that paragraph. You would have to be daft to think that they're going to put in new ice belts (as anoms), convert upgrade-spawned sites to anoms, and leave exploration gravimetric sites as grav sigs, with the only indication being an extremely arbitrary bit of semantics that are functionally synonymous. It quite clearly says, "We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category." They're going away.
no, you are right. if you read the following sentence it's even more clear "for all ore sites". my mistake. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
11
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:39:00 -
[46] - Quote
This basically kills mining in wormholes.
Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.
With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all.
The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3288
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
Prekaz wrote:The part you don't like is actually the very best part of all.
Only if you're the AFK cloaker looking for a mining fleet to drop a black ops raiding fleet on top of. This change will reduce the attractiveness of mining in nullsec. Who knows, maybe hisec won't be dead after all.
Odyssey will be a great time to get my covert ops alts out to null.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
903
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
Here's what it looks like using today's Jita prices: http://imageshack.us/a/img132/6756/neworenumbers426prices.jpg Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Dave Stark
2871
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
hulk aligns and warps in just under 18 seconds. other exhumers, faster.
can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds? |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
1384
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:hulk aligns and warps in just under 18 seconds. other exhumers, faster.
can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds?
Since the scan seems to happen on session change, i'd guess yes, depending on the distance.
edit: in WHs, the miner wouldn't have any indication you're even there, unless the WH you enter is within dscan range. With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
903
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:This basically kills mining in wormholes.
Right now, mining in WHs is only barely safe by virtue of your opponents needing to get probes out to find you, and an experienced prober can still find you with the probes only being visible on dscan for less than 30 seconds. But that still gives the victim--I mean, miner--a small chance to spot the probes and GTFO before it's too late.
With grav sites being anoms, you have only a few seconds' window to spot the attacker (if their incoming wh is within dscan range, the short period between wh cloak and true cloak), or no window at all.
The rest of the changes look good, but mining in WHs will become significantly more dangerous in Odyssey. I personally don't like that change. Why remove grav sites from scanning? Yeah, it makes it easier but it seems like a baby/bathwater change. Maybe just wh's since scanning is such an integral part of them? Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Dave Stark
2871
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Dave Stark wrote:hulk aligns and warps in just under 18 seconds. other exhumers, faster.
can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds? Since the scan seems to happen on session change, i'd guess yes, depending on the distance. edit: in WHs, the miner wouldn't have any indication you're even there, unless the WH you enter is within dscan range.
really i thought you had to click a button like d-scan? no matter.
and yes, this is going to be an issue in wormholes since there's no local to alert you of their entrance to the system. you're basically going to get ******. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3288
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Posted - 2013.04.26 21:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:can you enter a system, scan it, warp to the anom, and tackle/light cyno within 18 seconds?
If I'm AFK cloaked in the system, chances are I'm already sitting in the anomaly when the mining fleet arrives.
Heck, if I'm flying an Arazu there's not even any need to cyno anyone else in. Just warp scram, deploy drones, have at thee!
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
108
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Posted - 2013.04.26 22:06:00 -
[54] - Quote
yeah, if you google for blogs on stealth bomber solo wh piracy that's exactly what they do, prescan all the signatures and camp. freelance space bum |
Dave Stark
2872
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Posted - 2013.04.26 22:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
now just think.
off grid boosting is removed.
here, you might need some tissues... |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3288
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Posted - 2013.04.26 22:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:now just think.
off grid boosting is removed.
here, you might need some tissues...
Pity there's no mention of moving the mining foreman link bonus from the industrial core to the rorqual hull.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
violator2k5
RogueRaiders
9
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Posted - 2013.04.26 22:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
you guys are all posting #'s but what if they change the amount of ore required per refine?
that's what im curious about tbh is the amount of ore per refine going to stay the same or be changed. |
Dave Stark
2872
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Posted - 2013.04.26 22:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
violator2k5 wrote:you guys are all posting #'s but what if they change the amount of ore required per refine?
that's what im curious about tbh is the amount of ore per refine going to stay the same or be changed.
i assume, as it's not in the numbers blog, that it's not changing. |
violator2k5
RogueRaiders
9
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Posted - 2013.04.26 22:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:i assume, as it's not in the numbers blog, that it's not changing.
yea but when do they add everything to the publics eye, there's always something stealthed into the game from time to time |
Dave Stark
2872
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Posted - 2013.04.26 22:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
violator2k5 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i assume, as it's not in the numbers blog, that it's not changing. yea but when do they add everything to the publics eye, there's always something stealthed into the game from time to time
well it's pretty pointless giving us new mineral batch refining numbers, if they're changing batch sizes as it'd mean nothing so they'd have wasted their time giving us the numbers... |
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