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Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here on an irrelevant gaming forum is a post that no one will bother paying attention to. But here it is anyway. People are being ordered to evacuate their homes and submit to a involuntary search in mass.
This is a very very bad thing.
When the government suspends constitutional civil liberties, even in a time of crisis, it is still bad, mkay? A warrantless search on a grand scale is very bad, made only more so by the media not even questioning whether or not an army of heavily armed police has such an authority. So we now live in a nation where homeland security can suspend constitutional government for multiple counties in a time of crisis, and where the media is so diluted that no one has the balls to ask whether or not this is a gross violation of law.
It's like something a man in a black suit said to Mulder once on the X-files. Except in that movie the fictional character was warning about FEMA and aliens. Prophetic it seems, that now we have homeland security and "illegal aliens" instead. I need to find another planet to move to. This one has completely gone to ****.
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Concurssi Mellenar
Brave Newbies Inc.
15
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sources? |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Concurssi Mellenar wrote:Sources?
Turn on your TV genius.
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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1597
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Concurssi Mellenar wrote:Sources? Turn on your TV genius.
I'm stuck in a cubicle with no tv. Sources? Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3198
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Concurssi Mellenar wrote:Sources? Turn on your TV genius.
Sarcasm is not needed. All he asked for was a simple link as an example of what youre talking about. Without a link to a relevant source, for all some people on this forum know you are conspiracy mongering.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Concurssi Mellenar wrote:Sources? Turn on your TV genius. I'm stuck in a cubicle with no tv. Sources?
It appears to be on every channel following the Boston manhunt, while they simultaneously ignore all of the other people who died in the fertilizer plant explosion as a result of corporate corner cutting and gross negligence.
If that is not enough of a "source" for you, go put your head back in the hole in the ground where it came from.
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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1597
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Concurssi Mellenar wrote:Sources? Turn on your TV genius. I'm stuck in a cubicle with no tv. Sources? It appears to be on every channel following the Boston manhunt, while they ignore all of the other people who died in a the fertilizer plant explosion, as a result of corporate corner cutting and gross negligence.
Well that's good, but I still don't have a tv in my cubicle yet no matter how much I ask for one. Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
Alara IonStorm
4910
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
15 civilians shot in the head by Boston PD, sources on the TV.
Edit: I might be watching an episode of 24. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3198
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
This is current on CNN.com
This is current on FOXnews.com.
This is current on MSNBC.com
I hope this helps. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sorry, i forgot what section of the forum I was posting in. I still have douchebag turned on.
/Douche off.
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Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
298
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm one of the people who was helping. There were no "illegal search and seizures" going on. Hell, I know of one cop who openly told someone with heroic in plain sight, "Yeah, next time hide that ****."
Houses are being searched. If you're not okay with that, fine. But this bastard has murdered four people, and with more explosives on him, he could murder more. Shut the **** up. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1597
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Posted - 2013.04.19 21:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote: Houses are being searched. If you're not okay with that, fine. But this bastard has murdered four people, and with more explosives on him, he could murder more. Shut the **** up.
Now the question is, are they searching specific suspect houses or this supposed mass door to door thing. Murderer on the loose or not, nobody would be coming in my place without a warrant, and if I think that way you can bet that somebody else does as well. And with the amount of crazies out there in the world I believe that would be a little more work than the police can really handle at the moment.
Personally I'm thinking this civil liberty claim is bull. All 3 of those links generously provided my UAE just state that they are asking for people to remain within their homes and keep all the doors and windows locked until further notice while they search for a green Honda. Not too many closets that a Honda can hide in. Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band
623
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Posted - 2013.04.19 22:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
You can have Civil Liberties or Security Choose 1.
They are primarily mutually exclusive, to obtain security you need to sacrifice aspects of liberty .. the more security you want the more freedom you have to lose to gain it.
The reason is simple human nature. There is always someone, somewhere, that will view your Civil Liberties as a weakness to be exploited.
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Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 22:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:I'm one of the people who was helping. There were no "illegal search and seizures" going on. Hell, I know of one cop who openly told someone with heroine in plain sight, "Yeah, next time hide that ****."
Houses are being searched. If you're not okay with that, fine. But this bastard has murdered four people, and with more explosives on him, he could murder more. Shut the **** up.
**** you. You seem to have no grasp of what illegal search and seizure means, nor a firm grasp of constitutional guarantees.
BTW.... you and your "people" are achieving nothing while raiding peoples homes. The badguys sent up a flare by robbing a convince store, getting caught on camera and then carjacked someone, told them who they were and let him go to tell police about it. They practically sent up a fireworks advertising their whereabouts to your people. You got one, and then let the other escape in a vehicle for some reason.
How exactly? Hmmmm.... not sure. Incompetence?
So what has your gross illegal search of everyone's premise earned you so far? Ya know, besides crapping on our constitutional rights? To date... precisely jack. The badguys have done all of the hard work in terms of tracking them down for you so far. Have a nice day Anya
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Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 22:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:You can have Civil Liberties or Security Choose 1.
They are primarily mutually exclusive, to obtain security you need to sacrifice aspects of liberty .. the more security you want the more freedom you have to lose to gain it.
The reason is simple human nature. There is always someone, somewhere, that will view your Civil Liberties as a weakness to be exploited.
No. The search so far has yielded nothing. It has done nothing. It did not identify them. It did not tell people where they were. It did not allow authorities to catch up with them. All it is doing is authorizing systematic house raids of private property.
Opinions like yours are very dangerous. They only serve to rationalize the slow weathering of civil liberties intended to protect us from prosecution and injustices by those in power.
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Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 22:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Personally I'm thinking this civil liberty claim is bull. All 3 of those links generously provided my UAE just state that they are asking for people to remain within their homes and keep all the doors and windows locked until further notice while they search for a green Honda. Not too many closets that a Honda can hide in.
They are being told to vacate their house and dogs and men with machine guns are checking everything down to what is in their garage. It is not bull. Facts are facts.
Agree with it or don't. But facts are facts.
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Alara IonStorm
4910
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Posted - 2013.04.19 22:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:You can have Civil Liberties or Nothing Choose 1.
Fixed.
Nothing that can be considered a life worth living can make you secure simple as that.
Again what I said earlier comes to mind.
Alara IonStorm wrote: A police state for terrorism is like a sledge hammer for a fly, you won't hit the fly any better and you'll wreck your home.
People want to blow something up they will, the only way to stop that is build a society where people don't want to do that outside of the one in 10 million crazy man.
Death by terrorism is a lot less likely than death by lightning, pretty good job if you ask me. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1597
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Posted - 2013.04.19 22:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: But facts are facts.
Facts are backed up by sources, which you have yet to post.
Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
477
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Posted - 2013.04.19 22:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:You can have Civil Liberties or Nothing Choose 1.
Fixed.
Freedom and Liberty are mutually exclusive. You have to find a balance between the two because going too far to either side costs you both.
We miss you Saede. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 22:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: But facts are facts. Facts are backed up by sources, which you have yet to post.
News flash, internet links are not actually sources. When you go home, get out of your cubicle and turn on the TV, you too will experience the wonder of the modern, corporate run media experience. It is literally on every channel.
So... yea.
Also:
Quote:Freedom and Liberty are mutually exclusive. You have to find a balance between the two because going too far to either side costs you both.
People like you never stop to think that you just lack creativity. Your lack of creativity may make you believe that they are mutual exclusive because you cannot think of new and creative ways to solve problems. The rest of us should not have to pay for it however.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3202
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: News flash, internet links are not actually sources. When you go home, get out of your cubicle and turn on the TV, you too will experience the wonder of the modern, corporate run media experience. It is literally on every channel.
Internet sites and news channels both share the same sources. TV is beginning to be yesterdays news medium. The news you read via the internet is actually the same news you get on your TV, only at times you are getting it sooner. This news may be on every channel, but it is also on every news site, and top trending on most social media networks.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Alara IonStorm
4910
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote: Freedom and Liberty are mutually exclusive. You have to find a balance between the two because going too far to either side costs you both.
Liberty is the ability to have control over your own life an actions, better known as freedom. They are the exact same thing and not at all mutually exclusive.
Crimes not taken in the name of law are an oppression of liberty by individuals within a state against others. The reasons freedoms are infringed upon in a so called free state IE by prison, searches, warrants and arrests is because liberty is also threatened by individuals and organizations not considered states. Ideally this is designed to hinder and oppress criminals who are oppressing other peoples rights, un-ideally the state also oppresses people by passing laws against people they don't like for what they do or say.
There needs right now to be a balance as you say because we are not perfect and don't respect each others freedom but freedom and liberty are not mutually exclusive. |
Umega
Solis Mensa
149
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:I'm one of the people who was helping. There were no "illegal search and seizures" going on. Hell, I know of one cop who openly told someone with heroine in plain sight, "Yeah, next time hide that ****."
Houses are being searched. If you're not okay with that, fine. But this bastard has murdered four people, and with more explosives on him, he could murder more. Shut the **** up. **** you. You seem to have no grasp of what illegal search and seizure means, nor a firm grasp of constitutional guarantees. BTW.... you and your "people" are achieving nothing while raiding peoples homes. The badguys sent up a flare by robbing a convince store, getting caught on camera and then carjacked someone, told them who they were and then let him go to tell police about it. They practically sent up fireworks advertising their whereabouts to your people. You got one, and then let the other escape in a vehicle for some reason. How exactly? Hmmmm.... not sure. Incompetence? So what has your gross illegal search of everyone's premise earned you so far? Ya know, besides crapping on our constitutional rights? To date... precisely jack. The badguys have done all of the hard work in terms of tracking them down for you so far. Have a nice day Anya P.S.I see your in an NPC corp again. I guess you still can't find a corp that will tolerate you? <3 Kiss.
You're barking up the wrong tree.. *******. You're the type of person that shouldn't be aloud to smoke pot and surf the web at the same time.. yeah, I went there. Going to do something about it?
I'm one, of I'd wager many more than You.. whom would gladly let them do what they are doing under this scenario. Considering this suspect attempted to kill HUNDREDS.. and it's a miracle only 4 deaths to date. Whom still has explosives/guns to some extent and stayed in town.. perhaps to do even more harm? Very plausible. And you'd stand in the front of your door and block police from trying to find him like some southern redneck wannabe protecting your 'gosh darn wivil wights' from the ebil, nasty global empire? Wow, if that's the case. What are you hiding yourself?
I know if they came into my home under these conditions, and I had a quarter lb of dope out and they arrested me for it.. it ain't going to hold up in court. I also know they aren't going to give a **** about any of that right now. Stop over-thinking this.. it'll save you from a lot of pointless stress that You are bringing upon yourself, no one else. Blame yourself and don't be imbred.
And stop pretending to be some bad ass on the internet, makes you a nobuddy-wannabe-pretender in my book.. especially towards someone that was an actual 'badass' in Real Life.. and whom helped save people's lives Monday.
-áUme-Pro Studios |
Dessau
Phaeornis Asymmetrics
163
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Full disclosure: not a constitutional lawyer.
Exigent circumstances.
Cornell's online law library has a number of SCOTUS cases detailing arguments for warrantless entry. In this case, they are not entering a suspect's abode but rather a potential break/enter crime scene, and are not case-building. They are attempting to apprehend a multiple-murder suspect who is likely armed with firearms and explosives, thus attempting to prevent imminent harm to the public.
Solo is one player, one pilot. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Umega wrote:Another Anya alt.
Ya! This game again.
I am glade I made you happy on this fine day. You have certainly made mine. Next time, when a teenager speeds away from 30 something heavily armed cops, maybe bring a helicopter or something to see where he goes.
Pro advise.... free of charge. Bro. You're the one barking up the wrong tree
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Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1597
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
I still don't see any sources yet. Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel IG OOPE |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dessau wrote:Full disclosure: not a constitutional lawyer. Exigent circumstances.Cornell's online law library has a number of SCOTUS cases detailing arguments for warrantless entry. In this case, they are not entering a suspect's abode but rather a potential break/enter crime scene, and are not case-building. They are attempting to apprehend a multiple-murder suspect who is likely armed with firearms and explosives, thus attempting to prevent imminent harm to the public.
Laws like this are so broad they have no clear definition. An army of cops can apparently enter every house in the county systematically, if they say that they think a potential break/enter crimes seen was possible there.
That, bear minimum, is a very slippery slop indeed.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10399
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:15 civilians shot in the head by Boston PD, sources on the TV.
Edit: I might be watching an episode of 24.
Great show, they lost my interest on the last season though. Totally dropped the ball on that one
Micheal Dietrich wrote:I still don't see any sources yet.
What, no tv in your cubicle? "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Dessau
Phaeornis Asymmetrics
163
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Posted - 2013.04.19 23:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Slope that's been slippery since before my lifetime. In some cases, both circuit and supreme court agreed that the circumstances pertaining to the case did not excuse a Fourth Amendment breach.
But there are cases where it is excused, as I believe it would be with the many law enforcement agencies involved in the events of the last 24 hours. Those same agencies must ensure appropriate application of the law by only performing these sorts of acts under specific and extreme conditions. This seems to me to be the case so far.
Solo is one player, one pilot. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
933
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Posted - 2013.04.20 00:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dessau wrote:Slope that's been slippery since before my lifetime. In some cases, both circuit and supreme court agreed that the circumstances pertaining to the case did not excuse a Fourth Amendment breach.
But there are cases where it is excused, as I believe it would be with the many law enforcement agencies involved in the events of the last 24 hours. Those same agencies must ensure appropriate application of the law by only performing these sorts of acts under specific and extreme conditions. This seems to me to be the case so far.
A sound argument except here is the thing... their actions in no way shape or form yielded anything of substance thus far. Their finding of the suspects and their first encounter with them, resulting in ones death, had nothing to do with violating people's personal space. So what they are doing is proving to be ultimately useless for the time being. Every break so far required no civil rights violation.
All of this would be over by know if that same army of cops did their job, and prevented what is basically a teenage kid from evading them all and disappearing into thin air. Helicopter pursuit anyone? No? Well ok... let's just raid the city instead.
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