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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3081
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 20:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
As nobody has pointed it out yet, the burden lies on me ... as always.
No, it's not scamming CCP. Why would it ? If CCP got scammed, they'd simply ban him for life.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the fun reasons why commas are important. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13419
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 20:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:As nobody has pointed it out yet, the burden lies on me ... as always.
No, it's not scamming CCP. Why would it ? If CCP got scammed, they'd simply ban him for life.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the fun reasons why commas are important. Come to think of it, if it does scam anyone, it is CCP, since they're the ones missing out on all the transfer fees that don't get paid when people use alts to (not actually) move the characters to create the impression that characters are actually being sold at those pricesGǪ Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3081
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 20:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Solstice Project wrote:As nobody has pointed it out yet, the burden lies on me ... as always.
No, it's not scamming CCP. Why would it ? If CCP got scammed, they'd simply ban him for life.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is one of the fun reasons why commas are important. Come to think of it, if it does scam anyone, it is CCP, since they're the ones missing out on all the transfer fees that don't get paid when people use alts to (not actually) move the characters to create the impression that characters are actually being sold at those pricesGǪ I have *no* idea about how all this stuff works.
If you're right though, this means that the conclusion is ...
... yes, CCP is getting scammed ...
... and therefore, we can close this thread now.
\:D/ |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2013.03.31 20:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Othran wrote:Generals4 wrote:The seller has nothing to gain from selling his char to his own alt so that kind of tactic can easily backfire if people wouldn't pay too much.
I assume you haven't seen how many characters get relisted week after week - supposedly after being sold? The amusing thing is that if you want to buy a character then all the detail is there in character bazaar already. Who "sold" it, when they "sold" it, who "bought" it, who posted in thread etc etc. Its VERY easy to work out who is pumping up bids if you use search. Yes you're bound to get some false positives but this isn't rocket science, same dodgy names come up time and again - go find them yourselves, its not hard As mentioned before - if you give the mods of the forum a nudge then they normally deal with the worst of it quite quickly.
Yep.
Even eBay has rules against that type of sniping in an effort to boost the price.
I looked at the prices and there's no way I'd pay 2bil isk for a toon with but the basic skills leveled. Seen some with but a few level 5s leveled going for 4bil. Add Logistics 5 to the title, it's people outbidding each other for it -- yet the skills are barely would make a good logi pilot (i.e., few shield skills leveled to survive even in chains).
It used to be the buyers were more forceful in saying, "that toon isn't worth 2bil". Now they just post their bids. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.03.31 22:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
I should be clear that I am a completely new player. That said...
The Bazaar is potentially an interesting part of meta gaming. If I saw someone from a competing Alliance bidding on a character I felt would give them a strategic advantage, or I just wanted them to deplete ISK reserves I might push the price, even though I have no direct relationship to the toon being sold. It would be hard to intentionally set out to do this without a great deal of intel on who would be likely to bid, but if at a couple of weeks into the game I have thought of it there are more than likely Alliance's doing versions of this as well as single actors. In the case of an alliance or Corporate action if someone does not take the bait then the ISK stays in the Alliance anyway. Potential for very high profit at no risk. It is multiple players, not a single account so it is not strictly illegal, nor does it violate forum policy. If you made Alliance or Corporate regulations people would just create shell companies to do it. The nature of the game implies to me that this is likely already happening. Just saying.
Also to value the account at a gross level without considering the quality of skill architecture or use to the buyer you could simply calculate the time invested to have developed it and convert that to PLEX. I am too new to know yet if there is a direct correlation between the number of SP in a skill and the amount of time to train it across the board. If this is a fixed value then there is also a value of $/SP. I am not interested enough to figure it out, but someone might be, in order to use as a point of reference.
For instance, a 60B ISK character is currently worth about $333.00. How many SP in that character? What is the time conversion to have developed those under what conditions? Are SP all equally weighted or can some be considered more valuable than others, even if a fixed relationship to time? For instance, I notice that almost all high value characters have Subsystems maxed out. Even if there is a fixed relationship between SP:Time and therefore $, you could create a weighted formula based on market value of those skills given the current market conditions and such. That is you could correlate Subsystems to market, maybe based on current values of T3 ships or something?
might be interesting if I didnt need to finish the Epic Arc and L1 missions. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
65
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Posted - 2013.03.31 22:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Shao Huang wrote:I should be clear that I am a completely new player. That said... snipped some words
It actually is a very interesting meta-game, too rich for my blood though. I did follow the bazaar for awhile recently out of curiosity. The "right" skilled pilots are commonly sold for 1000-1200 isk/SP, whether this is manipulation or not, who knows?
But you can also see high-SP characters going for as low as 250-350 isk/SP. I think this has to do with the perceived value of isk versus SP, since many players might be content with a pile of isk even if it is billions lower than it should be.
As far as up-to-date info goes, I haven't skimmed that forum in a couple months, so I don't know the prices now. It really is to be expected that a market with such a high barrier-to-entry would be controlled by a select few.
-credit card $20 or else 2x plex for each sale
-large capital investment |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3088
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Posted - 2013.04.01 08:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Yep. Even eBay has rules against that type of sniping in an effort to boost the price. I looked at the prices and there's no way I'd pay 2bil isk for a toon with but the basic skills leveled. Seen some with but a few level 5s leveled going for 4bil. Add Logistics 5 to the title, it's people outbidding each other for it -- yet the skills are barely would make a good logi pilot (i.e., few shield skills leveled to survive even in chains). It used to be the buyers were more forceful in saying, "that toon isn't worth 2bil". Now they just post their bids.
EVE is not ebay.
A Scam is when you do not get the advertised good at the advertised price. They are illegal in the Character Bazaar (the character will be as described, or your money back). Market Manipulation is fine in every market in EVE, including the Character market.
If the prices are too high for you, don't pay them. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1563
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Posted - 2013.04.01 08:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
a bil per mil SP is perfectly standard for capital sitters. as far as i can figure, mostly because people are too lazy to spend the 3 months to train it themselves. |
Grayson Cole
R.A.V.E.N.
17
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Posted - 2013.04.01 09:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
nubile slave wrote:Isn't using throw away alts to manipulate the price considered scamming?
No. A scam involves making you spend ISK intentionally. Ex: Advertising contract item for 100 million, but the actual sell price in the contract is 100 billion.
Artificially bumping up the price of auction items is not scamming. There is nothing preventing you from opting out. Caldari Militia Gÿ£G£½GÿP |
Arronicus
Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective
488
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Posted - 2013.04.01 09:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
This isn't even price manipulation. This is simply 'creating false interest'. If the price goes above what you are willing to pay, don't buy. If noone is legit willing to pay the 'unreasonable prices', then the characters wont sell, till the prices go down to what people are willing to pay. VERY basic economics. /thread. |
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Ty Frisco
Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab
2
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Posted - 2013.04.01 13:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
It's called "shill bidding." Actually fraud, which is illegal in most areas.
"...shill bidding is when the seller of an item has a third party bid on their item solely with the intent of driving the price up and not for the purpose of buying the product."
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shill%20bidding
Some people arrested for it...
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20020208/0040203.shtml#comments |
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188
State War Academy Caldari State
179
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Posted - 2013.04.01 14:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Othran wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Othran wrote:OP is quite right and its blatantly obvious that some groups of bidding characters belong to certain "resellers*" of characters. And? If the bidding gets too hot for your tastes, back out. No one is forcing you to buy a character. Quite true. I'm simply pointing out that the OP is correct in his suspicions. It is a breach of Character Bazaar rules however and if they find out it happened then the iskies will be travelling back the other way. I assume from both your posts you know more about this particular incident than us?
I agree if it breaks the rules it breaks the rules. People will always try to justify it with exscuses. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8396
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 14:13:00 -
[43] - Quote
There's no rule against offering a lower price than the "current" price in the therad if you suspect this is going on, unlike in a RL auction where you have no such option.
In fact doing this can be a good way to get a bargain. If you think the "shilled" price of 10 billion is way too high, offer 7.5B or 6B or whatever beats the highest non-"shill" offer. Making bids cost nothing - and you can make that work in your favour just as much as the guy using shill bids can.
No need to waste time making tearful "10 bill is way too high for that character" - that just smacks of complaining that you can't afford what other people can. Let the bid you post make the point much more eloquently and succinctly. If you "lose", you lose nothing. If you win, you get a bargain. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8: Read about my platform here
Please endorse my candidacy here |
Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large
278
|
Posted - 2013.04.01 16:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Exactly this. shills are considered a scam in pretty much every auction/bidding process. They are usually difficult to detect, or are tolerated by the auction house, but a form of scam nonetheless. Whether CCP considers it a scam for character bazaar purposes, I have no idea, but let's not pretend it's a legit practice.
No good deed goes unpunished |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2384
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Posted - 2013.04.01 17:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bind characters to the acct that created them. Problem solved.
But then CCP loses out on the PLEX FOR PILOTS program it has nicely set up for the big spenders and terminally impulsive.
I've sold plenty of characters to brand new players for 12-15 billion ISK. So CCP is getting the cash for all those PLEXes that were sold to buy the pilot and on top of that charging another $20.00 for the transfer.
If you ask me, there is a scam going on. It's just not by any of the players.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
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