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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14670
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
P0RKSW0RD wrote:Mag's wrote:P0RKSW0RD wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:P0RKSW0RD wrote: Well I wasn't aware of the previous posts and conversations, which is why I asked people their opinions you muppet.
You fail to do even basic research on your idea, yet I'm the muppet. Yep and sorry for not having forum lvl 5 CCP reduced the level of forum required to 1, with the inclusion of a search box. (Top right) But that would require common sense level 1 and a modicum of intelligence at level 1 also. Oh yea, the OP. NO. Didn't get the memo, I shall petition CCP to find out why. Seriously tho, this post not only lacks intelligence it is pointless. Rather than just a straight NO would you like to add why it would be a bad idea? Or is the point of this thread beyond you? But your lack of searching and seeing that your post is pointless, isn't a lack of intelligence?
Seriously though, I've said multiple times in multiple threads why this is a bad idea. Do some research. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14670
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
P0RKSW0RD wrote:None of you speak for the community if you don't like it or cannot contribute to the post then save yourself the stress and talk crap on other peoples posts.
We are the community and as such, we can speak for ourselves. Don't like what you read, tough. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
306
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
To properly answer this question.
Take a look how training sskills actualy works. A skill requires two attributes, a primary and a secondary. this affects the number sp that are gained each hour while training a specific skill.
Now, In your training plan you have lots of gunnery and ship skills, you are currently training something like say Battlecruiser 5 (6x perception and Willpower) and then all of a sudden you realize you need to train Wing command 4 (8x Charisma and Willpower)
You have already put in two of those nice +4's for Perception and Willpower but you, like everyone else has dropped the charisma attribute to teh lowest it can go. and of course you have never bought a charisma implant because its nominally useless.
Instead of having to make a choice of spending some isk, remapping or training at a suboptimal speed, you simply put medium autocannon specialization 5 on that queue and transfer over sp that you are training at optimal speeds. THis reduces market interactions, reduces the difficulty of making good choices (as it no longer matters what you train as long as you remember to move sp over once in a while.
While this is attractive. it makes every training choice moot as you will only ever need two implants and two attributes maxed. to add to this, when ever ccp decides to nerf something or buff something every 30 mil sp character will immediately be able to fly it as they move all their sp over to the current FOTM ship. It makes it so there is little to no incentive to invent new fits. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
63
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
So now that the majority of people agree that SP swapping is bad, can we discuss the ability to negatively train your skills to clean up unwanted skills? I know this doesn't create the same amount of outrage.
/and unlearning level 0 skills would be pro too |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14671
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:So now that the majority of people agree that SP swapping is bad, can we discuss the ability to negatively train your skills to clean up unwanted skills? I know this doesn't create the same amount of outrage.
/and unlearning level 0 skills would be pro too I'm actually OK with this, as long as there are plenty of safe guards in place. Some simply need plenty of safe guards. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3853
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 18:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:So now that the majority of people agree that SP swapping is bad, can we discuss the ability to negatively train your skills to clean up unwanted skills? I know this doesn't create the same amount of outrage.
/and unlearning level 0 skills would be pro too I'm all for helping out the special needs players, but I think that a lot of headaches would be created and coding required just to help our OCD players lose that pesky eye twitch... and frankly there are a lot of other "untidy" things in EvE that will set them off just a much. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
64
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 19:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ersahi Kir wrote:So now that the majority of people agree that SP swapping is bad, can we discuss the ability to negatively train your skills to clean up unwanted skills? I know this doesn't create the same amount of outrage.
/and unlearning level 0 skills would be pro too I'm all for helping out the special needs players, but I think that a lot of headaches would be created and coding required just to help our OCD players lose that pesky eye twitch... and frankly there are a lot of other "untidy" things in EvE that will set them off just a much.
YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH I SUFFER FROM THIS!!!
/eyetwitch //goes to straighten out the fringe on the rug so it's all evenly spaced and tidy....for the third time today |
P0RKSW0RD
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 19:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
I think alot of you are missing the point of this thread so i may start posting this as a new idea every week just to wind up those who see it and make the assumption that i'm asking the exact same that some other random person might have touched on at some point in the past. |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
50
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 20:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think, you just asking for a permaban for spamming. |
P0RKSW0RD
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 21:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tonto Auri wrote:I think, you just asking for a permaban for spamming.
lol |
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
52
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 21:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Did I said something funny? |
P0RKSW0RD
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 21:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tonto Auri wrote:Did I said something funny?
If it's not relevant to what this thread is about, I'm not even gonna get into it. |
P0RKSW0RD
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 22:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
[quote=Kusum Fawn]To properly answer this question.
Instead of having to make a choice of spending some isk, remapping or training at a suboptimal speed, you simply put medium autocannon specialization 5 on that queue and transfer over sp that you are training at optimal speeds. THis reduces market interactions, reduces the difficulty of making good choices (as it no longer matters what you train as long as you remember to move sp over once in a while.
Thank u for a well written and detailed response, but I did mention earlier that it would only be a one time chance to correct some mistakes and only done on the account that created the character to begin with. Once transferred the option is gone.
You could even limit the amount of sp that it could be done with, i don't mean for it to be permanently available so people could delete or change their entire skillset at will as this would truly destroy the game.
Or even if you were able to trade in x amount (again limited amount) and sacrifice 25% for the privelege ( but again only ever being able to it once and only if you created the character ). This is something I would do, I would happily lower my total sp to have a little more in the areas i've come to really love about eve.
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Elizabeth Norn
Tax Evasion Haven New Eden Research.
27
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 22:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:train 1x skill, move sp form that skill to higher training multiplier skill and repeat.
Skills with higher multipliers require higher SP. Check your skillsheet. .
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
93
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 22:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
I've often wondered how skillbooks are made. I would support unlearning skills with the proviso that:
1. A character unlearns his or her skills at exactly the same rate it took to learn them in the first place, e.g. 15 days for a 3 x skill at level 5 etc (depending on attributes).
2. That a character cannot learn any other skills when 'unlearning' as effectively the training queue is being utilized by a skill the sp of which is counting backwards on.
3. At the end of the process when the skill is unlearned to level zero the character can download it into a blank skill book that he or she can then sell or pass to another capsuleer who then consumes it in the normal way, taking time to learn the skill as normal.
4. Skill books should still be sold by NPC's to keep the costs cheap.
That way the character has something that he or she can sell, is severely disadvantaged through unlearning, which should discourage the character from attempting to do so.
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Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 05:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I've often wondered how skillbooks are made. I would support unlearning skills with the proviso that:
1. A character unlearns his or her skills at exactly the same rate it took to learn them in the first place, e.g. 15 days for a 3 x skill at level 5 etc (depending on attributes).
2. That a character cannot learn any other skills when 'unlearning' as effectively the training queue is being utilized by a skill the sp of which is counting backwards on.
3. At the end of the process when the skill is unlearned to level zero the character can download it into a blank skill book that he or she can then sell or pass to another capsuleer who then consumes it in the normal way, taking time to learn the skill as normal.
4. Skill books should still be sold by NPC's to keep the costs cheap.
That way the character has something that he or she can sell, is severely disadvantaged through unlearning, which should discourage the character from attempting to do so.
This would be pretty useless. No point unlearning anything if you don't gain anything by doing it. Would be just better to train something instead. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
96
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 20:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I've often wondered how skillbooks are made. I would support unlearning skills with the proviso that:
1. A character unlearns his or her skills at exactly the same rate it took to learn them in the first place, e.g. 15 days for a 3 x skill at level 5 etc (depending on attributes).
2. That a character cannot learn any other skills when 'unlearning' as effectively the training queue is being utilized by a skill the sp of which is counting backwards on.
3. At the end of the process when the skill is unlearned to level zero the character can download it into a blank skill book that he or she can then sell or pass to another capsuleer who then consumes it in the normal way, taking time to learn the skill as normal.
4. Skill books should still be sold by NPC's to keep the costs cheap.
That way the character has something that he or she can sell, is severely disadvantaged through unlearning, which should discourage the character from attempting to do so.
This would be pretty useless. No point unlearning anything if you don't gain anything by doing it. Would be just better to train something instead.
That was my point too, but there are some people out there that cant stand the site of say 'heavy missiles' skills being on their character now that they've been nerfed and would like to unlearn those skills (purely as an example) because they don't use them anymore. In doing so they might qualify for a cheaper clone so there may be some benefit. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 21:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I've often wondered how skillbooks are made. I would support unlearning skills with the proviso that:
1. A character unlearns his or her skills at exactly the same rate it took to learn them in the first place, e.g. 15 days for a 3 x skill at level 5 etc (depending on attributes).
2. That a character cannot learn any other skills when 'unlearning' as effectively the training queue is being utilized by a skill the sp of which is counting backwards on.
3. At the end of the process when the skill is unlearned to level zero the character can download it into a blank skill book that he or she can then sell or pass to another capsuleer who then consumes it in the normal way, taking time to learn the skill as normal.
4. Skill books should still be sold by NPC's to keep the costs cheap.
That way the character has something that he or she can sell, is severely disadvantaged through unlearning, which should discourage the character from attempting to do so.
This would be pretty useless. No point unlearning anything if you don't gain anything by doing it. Would be just better to train something instead.
I would like to drop some of my industry, science, and spaceship command skills because I have chosen a different path for this character (fleet booster and logistics). Being able to untrain skill points that are bloating out my character and bumping me up jump clone grades would be more useful than training new skills I'm not going to use. |
Jacid
nul-li-fy Nulli Secunda
22
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 19:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Wow this thread is full of awesome... but ill give my 2 cents because i already committed the time to reading the other post i might as well comment.
No.. i don't want SP recycling in my game, clone prices aren't a good reason and should be addressed in a different topic, mistakes aren't a good reason because eve is about making choices and living with those choice. In eve you can't reload your game because you dislike the outcome. Clearly you have a personal stake in this question maybe you trained Heavy Missiles to 5 and no longer like flying drakes however people that do make mistakes need to HTFU as the saying goes and train on.
Eve as stands now is becoming too easy, eve needs to be tough, it needs to force you to make tough choices, and you need to live with those choices.
My 2 Cents |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 19:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jacid wrote:Eve as stands now is becoming too easy, eve needs to be tough, it needs to force you to make tough choices, and you need to live with those choices.
This is why people have armies of alts who do specialized things. People make alts so they can avoid the repercussions of "tough decisions" while gaining the full benefits, so this entire mentality is based in flawed logic. |
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Ristlin Wakefield
Wanderers of the Eternal Darkness Eternal Pretorian Alliance
306
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 20:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:train 1x skill, move sp form that skill to higher training multiplier skill and repeat.
A similar technique as this was used in SWG during the combat upgrade, which caused a massive influx of Jedi characters (made it easier to unlock the Jedi slot). Bounty Hunters (BH) worked hard to keep the Jedi population in check (each death resulted in skill loss), but being able to stack low level skills then reinvest them up the ladder allowed Jedi to quickly go from Padawan level (easily taken out by one BH) to a Knight (can survive 2 to more BHs) before their visibility (how quickly they show up on the Bounty terminals again) increased significantly.
I made my Jedi during this time period and within a few weeks was able to dispatch a three-man bounty hunter squad with relative ease. If I knew that this would eventually ruin the game, I would've preferred for the developers to not allow skill reimbursement. I would've even preferred them to have kept the permadeath mechanic in for Jedi.
TL:DR: Skill reimbursement is a bad idea and will ruin game balance. For the good of the game, I prefer not even entertaining the idea of a one-time deal. I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license. |
P0RKSW0RD
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 21:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jacid wrote:
Clearly you have a personal stake in this question maybe you trained Heavy Missiles to 5 and no longer like flying drakes
My 2 Cents
You kinda hit the nail on the head with this. For me personally for me it's things like veldspar processing level one and other skills like that, even if i changed all of the things i'd like too on my own character sheet it wouldn't amount to much in sp tbh , it would be more of a spring clean. My character is a cross trainer and i love not having to train gunnery, missile or core skills anymore, quite proud of it tbh. But i do agree with most of what u've written, your two cents is appreciated. |
P0RKSW0RD
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 21:54:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ristlin Wakefield wrote:Seranova Farreach wrote:train 1x skill, move sp form that skill to higher training multiplier skill and repeat. A similar technique as this was used in SWG during the combat upgrade, which caused a massive influx of Jedi characters (made it easier to unlock the Jedi slot). Bounty Hunters (BH) worked hard to keep the Jedi population in check (each death resulted in skill loss), but being able to stack low level skills then reinvest them up the ladder allowed Jedi to quickly go from Padawan level (easily taken out by one BH) to a Knight (can survive 2 to more BHs) before their visibility (how quickly they show up on the Bounty terminals again) increased significantly. I made my Jedi during this time period and within a few weeks was able to dispatch a three-man bounty hunter squad with relative ease. If I knew that this would eventually ruin the game, I would've preferred for the developers to not allow skill reimbursement. I would've even preferred them to have kept the permadeath mechanic in for Jedi. TL:DR: Skill reimbursement is a bad idea and will ruin game balance. For the good of the game, I prefer not even entertaining the idea of a one-time deal.
I'd hate to see that happen and should be treated as an exploit if it did. |
Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 23:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Not a bad idea. In the beginning you experimented and wasted SP (eg Mining Drone Operation). Could have biomassed then and restarted but didn't
Of course safeguards should be in place:
- You can't use it too often
- SP for SP.
- Skill prerequisites are respected.
Ad 1) Count it as a remap Ad 2) the "train 1x skill, move sp form that skill to higher training multiplier skill and repeat" doesn't work. A full , lvl 5 skill with multiple 1 is 256.000 SP. When placing those SP in a skill with higher multiple a smaller amount of lvl will have been completed Ad 3) Releasing SP from a trained skill automatically releases SP from all skill that are depending on it. In order to enforce that placing SP back can only be done if the prerequisites have been met, skills with no points will be removed from char or offloaded to skill books (tbd). This due to the summer expansion where prerequisites checking will be changed in such a way that it will only at skill book injection |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP Talocan United
217
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 23:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
I want to trade plexs for SPs. How can I do that? :) |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1984
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 00:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
In short... HELL NO....
The main reasons I'm against this:
1.) You've already benefited from the skills you trained, and you can continue to benefit from them if you choose.
2.) It eliminates any consequences for the SP Training decisions you've made. Losses are realizable in even, decisions matter, saying "I made a mistake" should not lesson this.
3.) If it was frequent enough (annual or more), why bother training at any rate other than max... Map Int/Mem or Prec/Will... train marginal skills that aren't immediately important... and remap them once a year to off-map skills... You ultimately accrue SP faster, spend less on implants, and this method is inherently biased towards older players that don't need to train Ship skills, support skills, nav skills, which all have different attribute requirements.
4.) It enhances FOTM and simultaneously diminishes the value of foresight. When big patches hit, things change... New ships and modules become in demand to both be flown and created... If you had the foresight and pretrained, you can take advantage of the changes while other players scramble to train up to do so... With a Remap... there is not advantageous period as people can insta-swap.
5.) It destroys the character bazaar. Total SP a character has is not nearly as important as how they have that SP distributed. You essentially remove this aspect from the bazaar.
6.) Even if you allow it only once in a character's life time, we all know you'll be whining and bitching again in another year how you've changed your course through EvE, and want to move SP around again...
7.) As a rule of thumb, All major game-changing suggestion are terrible when the person proposing it is too lazy/incompetent to do some research on the topic prior to posting.
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Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 01:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: In short... HELL NO....
The main reasons I'm against this:
1.) You've already benefited from the skills you trained, and you can continue to benefit from them if you choose.
BS argument. Following this argument you shouldn't be able to sell ships you have bought in the past.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 2.) It eliminates any consequences for the SP Training decisions you've made. Losses are realizable in even, decisions matter, saying "I made a mistake" should not lesson this.
No it doesn't. It just makes the decision/mistake not permanent.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 3.) If it was frequent enough (annual or more), why bother training at any rate other than max... Map Int/Mem or Prec/Will... train marginal skills that aren't immediately important... and remap them once a year to off-map skills... You ultimately accrue SP faster, spend less on implants, and this method is inherently biased towards older players that don't need to train Ship skills, support skills, nav skills, which all have different attribute requirements.
Agreed, usage should not be unlimited. For example by linking it to Remap counter
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 4.) It enhances FOTM and simultaneously diminishes the value of foresight. When big patches hit, things change... New ships and modules become in demand to both be flown and created... If you had the foresight and pretrained, you can take advantage of the changes while other players scramble to train up to do so... With a Remap... there is not advantageous period as people can insta-swap.
No, see 2 & 3
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Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 01:53:00 -
[58] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 5.) It destroys the character bazaar. Total SP a character has is not nearly as important as how they have that SP distributed. You essentially remove this aspect from the bazaar.
And the character bazaar is a good thing? It is a P2W, which is frowned upon by EVE players in general. It doesn't give your control over your own character (name, appearance, ..). It allows scammers, awoxer and other wrong-doers to dodge consequence by getiting rid off bad reputation, (corp) history through buying/ replacing characters.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: 6.) Even if you allow it only once in a character's life time, we all know you'll be whining and bitching again in another year how you've changed your course through EvE, and want to move SP around again...
How is SP reallocation significantly different than attributes remapping? SP realloc effects SP training in the past, where remap training in the future. Or do you propose to remove remap as well? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1986
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 06:42:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nagnor wrote: 1.) You've already benefited from the skills you trained, and you can continue to benefit from them if you choose.
BS argument. Following this argument you shouldn't be able to sell ships you have bought in the past.
Your analogy is falacious. The correct analogy, following my argument, is you shouldn't be able to return a ship after you buy it, and guess what, you can't!! When you buy a ship in EvE, you can attempt to resell it, sometimes for a profit, sometimes for a loss... but you don't get to undo your purchase because you no longer want the ship. To even provide a relevant example, many supercarrier & titan pilots didn't get to "undo" their purchases when their supercaps were nerfed... while they could sell those assets, it was often at a significant loss!
Nagnor wrote: 2.) It eliminates any consequences for the SP Training decisions you've made. Your decisions matter, and saying "I made a mistake" should not lesson this.
No it doesn't. It just makes the decision/mistake not permanent. Imagine I rat in a carrier... and one day I make a mistake that gets it destroyed... Should I be able to undo the consequence of my action and have it reimburesed... Is it right the mistake I made is permanent? Or how about if I accept a contract that I didn't read carefully enough, and it resulted in me losing a billion isk... Can I have that undone, just once a year... so my mistake isn't permanent? Guess what, in EvE... your losses are perment... your decesions are irreversable... Some things get a "are you sure you want to do this" warning... but when you CHOOSE to do it, you must deal with the consequences of your choice. The same applies to skillpoints!!!!
Nagnor wrote: 3.) If it was frequent enough (annual or more), why bother training at any rate other than max... Map Int/Mem or Prec/Will... train marginal skills that aren't immediately important... and remap them once a year to off-map skills... You ultimately accrue SP faster, spend less on implants, and this method is inherently biased towards older players that don't need to train Ship skills, support skills, nav skills, which all have different attribute requirements.
Agreed, usage should not be unlimited. For example by linking it to Remap counter Remap counters are annual... I just explained that even annual SP redistribution would be abused... I have ~100m SP on my mains, and I would never unspec Perc/Will. I'd train at max rate all year... and once every year I'd simply redistribute my SP to instantly train new useful skills (like MJD, Target breaker Spectrum, Sensor Comp skills, etc)... this would not be a good thing!
Nagnor wrote: 4.) It enhances FOTM and simultaneously diminishes the value of foresight. When big patches hit, things change... New ships and modules become in demand to both be flown and created... If you had the foresight and pretrained, you can take advantage of the changes while other players scramble to train up to do so... With a Remap... there is not advantageous period as people can insta-swap.
No, see 2 & 3
Likewise-- see 2&3... Right before the summer patch, I could retrain to insure I pickup all the new BC & Dessie skills... Right after the last patch, I could retrain to produce BO BS's with perfect skills to profit from their buff... Last Summer I could have insta-trained to use and/or make t2 Siege/Triage modules. etc, etc... Big changes to the game happen 1-2 times a year... and this mechanic allows me to take full advantage of the changes with little to no foresight. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1989
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 07:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nagnor wrote: 5.) It destroys the character bazaar. Total SP a character has is not nearly as important as how they have that SP distributed. You essentially remove this aspect from the bazaar.
And the character bazaar is a good thing? It is a P2W, which is frowned upon by EVE players in general. It doesn't give your control over your own character (name, appearance, ..). It allows scammers, awoxer and other wrong-doers to dodge consequence by getiting rid off bad reputation, (corp) history through buying/ replacing characters.
There is a big difference between P2W and the character bazaar (and PLEX for that matter). You should also do a forum search to understand the subtle difference between pay to win, and the options available to EvE players, as it's been discussed many times. To summarize: Pay to win implies you get in game advantages for out of game money... That does NOT HAPPEN in EvE.
This is subtle, so you need to think about it before responding: From anyone elses perspective... you buying plex does NOT enable a character to earn SP faster. you buying plex does NOT give you an isk advantage. Why? Because the isk you gained via selling plex was already in game... the character you bazaared had already accrued SP. Those assets already existed in game, completely independent of whether or not you ascertained them by exchanging game time for it.
I understand, from your perspective... you spend RL money and gain a character with lots of SP, and a bunch of isk... so it seems like pay2win... but no new advantages were created via your purchase... Plex, and the character bazaar are actually very ingenious, as it allows people to exchange future game time for efforts already achieved in game. It is specifically NOT pay 2 win, because NO NEW ADVANTAGES are created via PLEX!!!
Nagnor wrote: 6.) Even if you allow it only once in a character's life time, we all know you'll be whining and bitching again in another year how you've changed your course through EvE, and want to move SP around again...
How is SP reallocation significantly different than attributes remapping? SP realloc effects SP training in the past, where remap training in the future. Or do you propose to remove remap as well?
In short, hindsight is 20/20, but foresight is much less clear.
In other words, Attribute Remapping requires foresight... and is subject to error as the future isn't easy to predict. A pilots goals, desires, and situations change, and are not fully predictable (especially over a year). In contrast, SP Reallocation provides instant gratification by immediately granting skills you desire by removing skills that are of low utility. I realize you have to live with your remap for a full year... but that's a lot different than living with your training choices for your characters entire future. That permancy of your trainig decision really add weight to it... and its simply because you don't want to deal with the consequences of your previous choices that you would push for the redistribution.
They didn't used to allow annual remaps, and they changed it because your attribute mapping significantly effect your training rate. In general, new players don't have the knowledge and experience to truly know what they wish to do long term in EvE, not to mention their goals are very much subject to change as they and EvE evolve through various emergent gameplay. |
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