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knowsitall
Adeptus iNdustry and Logistics Silent Eviction
12
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
But we already have SP with out waiting, for the RIGHT amount of isk, based not on CCP setting skill cost but on demand. Go and look at the character bizarre.
If you dont want to wait to train and you are clever enough to make loads of isk, and by loads i mean billions. Dont tell me you need ANY in game skills to make billions, because you don't. In game skills are needed to make millions. To make billions you either make millions for a very long time (not what i would call making billions) or you use player knowledge, understanding of the game and the market to make billions. There is many examples on the forums of vets starting a new character and with no seed from alts, only the knowledge in their heads they make billions in the first month.
So with your idea everyone can do everything in no time, and therefore there is no specialisation, becuase with no specialisation there is no niche to carve out for yourself, therefore no one needs anyone as they can do EVERYTHING themselves (does not sound very MMO-ish to me, if you want that go play X3). To combat this CPP have to make skills MUCH more expensive, this means you still have wait to skill, because you have earn the isk. This then hurts the causual new player much more than just waiting, it maybe helps the hardcore new player, but if you are that hardcore earn the isk and buy a char from the character bizarre.
So in all i think an interesting thought experiment, but the outcome is a worse game.
KIA
Edited to sort out some grammar |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Leia Kommana wrote:As a new player (about a week), I honestly have to say I don't know if I will be staying in the game much longer. At first I was really impressed with the huge complexity of the game. But after I started training skills and saw how long it takes, and realized that I need to train so much just to be able to even open up a lot of the game content - well it is very demotivational to say the least. It really makes me miss games like X3, that have a lot of game content, but don't actually put so strict restrictions on accessing all the content but forcing you to literally just wait , and wait, and wait, until you somehow magically gain the skills to use it.
At the very least, they could modify the system so that it takes experience and experience using each system actually gives you the skills you need to advance in that system.
The key is make short term goals. Its not going to be possible to look at that cap ship and jump into it one week after signing up. Even Wow takes a few weeks of dedication to get to level 80 or whatever, at least it used to anyway. Eve is all about having the long term plan, but making short term goals you can do in the meantime. |
Yaboo Sux
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:What if there was no SP, Prereqs and all Ships and Modules had Lvl V skill stats?
You enter the EVE World with nothing but 5000 ISK, a Rookie Ship and no insurance. Ships crew is included free with every ship purchase who know how to operate and fly everything at maximum efficiency you just direct them from the pod. Your limits on equipment is only money, how much you can make, how much others pay you. The only Skill in EVE is commanding your ship, the tactics you use, the fit of your ship and your reflexes.
Not talking on a business end for CCP, forget Plex, Alts, Multiboxing and Subscriptions as a thing. Forget feasibility it this isn't an idea.
How do you think the EVE landscape would change? Would the game be more fun, more enjoyable without time based improvement? How would you change your gameplay?
So if this is not an idea it is a poor troll, but i-Śll take bait and try to leave you the hook
Game is here to do two things, provide CCP with cash to keep it going and to engage people enough that they continue to pay for it.
As a piece of blue sky thinking it is fail, no drivers behind game play apart from psychopathy when all is said and done if you actually have enough depth to think about it.
Are you a psychopath? |
Arronicus
Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective
475
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
"An eve without skill skill points" *shakes a fist* redundant! |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:The whole idea behind the skill training in eve was that it is passive and so players didn't have to grind. Unfortunately that didn't seem to work out too well. :)
I don't like the idea though as it is simply dumbing down the gameplay. On the contrary; it worked out perfectly. Grinding for skills is so antiquated. Who wants to do a boring, repetitive task over and over in order to get better skills? Not me. Personally, I'd rather grind for tangible assets rather than a skill.
I agree, but what I meant in the post above was that people still grind for assets. |
Aerowind Darkstar
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
So an MMO version of the X Universe? |
Alara IonStorm
4814
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Aerowind Darkstar wrote:So an MMO version of the X Universe? Maybe, I've never played X Universe. It's a open ended space jet fighter game right? |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
To take the OPs concept to it's ultimate level, then everyone would also have unlimited isk, and also every ship in the game would be equal with the same attributes and abilities. So as you can see your idea would simply be the first step on a path of dumbing down the game and homogenizing everything.
I want eve to increase in complexity as it advances, just as in real life there are many variables impossible for us to completely comprehend, and the same should also be the goal for eve.
If your argument was I want skills to be grindable as are assets then you would have more of a interesting idea, although that can be already done as some have mentioned by buying from the character Bazaar.
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Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
224
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Part of the fun is in flying that noobie ship years later and realizing just how much more powerful you have become. In waiting for that next skill and seeing your missile hit a bit harder. In opening up a new ship, taking it out, losing it and realizing that just because you can fly it doesn't mean you SHOULD be flying it.
In short, taking skills out would take some choice out and in turn would make the game less fun. |
Alara IonStorm
4814
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:To take the OPs concept to it's ultimate level, then everyone would also have unlimited isk, and also every ship in the game would be equal with the same attributes and abilities. So as you can see your idea would simply be the first step on a path of dumbing down the game and homogenizing everything. Like Vietnam, if we don't stop the Commie's all of SE Asia will domino.
Rebecha Pucontis wrote: I want eve to increase in complexity as it advances, just as in real life there are many variables impossible for us to completely comprehend, and the same should also be the goal for eve.
Is not the individual the ultimate variable.
Rebecha Pucontis wrote: If your argument was I want skills to be grindable as are assets then you would have more of a interesting idea, although that can be already done as some have mentioned by buying from the character Bazaar.
Actually I do not want anything, it would literally kill EVE financially since people subbed to train is a big income source as are alts. Just wondering how the game would be if individual skill at living in the universe overtook SP.
Just free thinking a bit. |
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CompleteFailure
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
21
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Posted - 2013.03.29 16:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
tl;dr: "I can has Titan?" Kesper North for CSM8 |
Thur Barbek
Republic University Minmatar Republic
93
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Posted - 2013.03.29 16:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lets remove one of the major barriers to capital ships. What could possibly go wrong. |
Gelatine
EverBroke Geeks
7
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Posted - 2013.03.29 16:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:What if there was no SP, Prereqs and all Ships and Modules had Lvl V skill stats?
You enter the EVE World with nothing but 5000 ISK, a Rookie Ship and no insurance. Ships crew is included free with every ship purchase who know how to operate and fly everything at maximum efficiency you just direct them from the pod. Your limits on equipment is only money, how much you can make, how much others pay you. The only Skill in EVE is commanding your ship, the tactics you use, the fit of your ship and your reflexes.
Not talking on a business end for CCP, forget Plex, Alts, Multiboxing and Subscriptions as a thing. Forget feasibility it this isn't an idea.
How do you think the EVE landscape would change? Would the game be more fun, more enjoyable without time based improvement? How would you change your gameplay?
I suppose the correct answer is I'd be playing Elite: Dangerous, not playing EVE at all.
Elite: Dangerous Kickstarter page |
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
94
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Posted - 2013.03.29 17:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
The only determining factor is ISK - everyone can fly everything and fit anything on their ships. You can give capitals to players that have never played EVE. Zerg alliances focus on getting Trial people to be cannon fodder. Players focus on gaining ISK through game means or just buying it. |
Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
983
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Posted - 2013.03.29 17:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
If this system came into place I would be wardeccing people and making a new character for each attack. They would be in an NPC corp right up until the last possible second before the attack, do the murdering, and then get biomassed right afterwards. Nobody would ever have any kind of indication who to be on the lookout for.
Also, my safari characters would never be short logi, orca or bump support because of distance of skilled toons. I would just keep a bunch of the correct ship in each of the starter systems and make a task-built character each time I needed one.
I don't think my opponents would like that very much.
On the other hand, when I decced them instead of closing and reopening their corp they could just delete and recreate their character and I would have no idea who to chase.
I'm not seeing any positives for anyone out of this... Psychotic Monk for CSM. Belligerent Undesirables Blog. |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
121
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
Yes because we want the power blocs with all the money/moneypooling capabilities to be able to field full capital and titan fleets. Which they now can because every single member is able to build capital components, go out and mine in exhumers and reship into FotM fleet doctrine with all the goodies at every step. I believe that the old saying "time is money" comes into play
In your system it the people with money, not time that rule. You want something even more "dumbed down" than world of warcraft which at least has the sense of class locking and profession locking people. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Homowners
57
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:What if there was no SP, Prereqs and all Ships and Modules had Lvl V skill stats?
You enter the EVE World with nothing but 5000 ISK, a Rookie Ship and no insurance. Ships crew is included free with every ship purchase who know how to operate and fly everything at maximum efficiency you just direct them from the pod. Your limits on equipment is only money, how much you can make, how much others pay you. The only Skill in EVE is commanding your ship, the tactics you use, the fit of your ship and your reflexes.
Not talking on a business end for CCP, forget Plex, Alts, Multiboxing and Subscriptions as a thing. Forget feasibility it this isn't an idea.
How do you think the EVE landscape would change? Would the game be more fun, more enjoyable without time based improvement? How would you change your gameplay?
This thread is a great reminder that most of the EVE playerbase is either illiterate or simply forgot to queue up "Reading Comprehension - Level I"
Back on point, I think the game would probably become more (much more?) popular (more unique subscriptions, waaaay less alts, which would be a healthy change for the game), although taking out the skill grind would kind of emphasize how much "not playing" goes into a session of "playing" the video game that is EVE.
There would be a lot more PvP, as industrialists/miners/whatevers would be able to jump from profession to profession with ease. Like others have said, ISK would become the predominant factor - but then again, it already is. It's not like the heavy hitting Null Corps aren't already the only ones with Titans and piles of supercaps . . . or that it could really get much worse. But I'm sure we'd see some fairly serious inflation, and a lot more Vindi-Mach fleets bombing around looking for fights (or getting chased by pimped-out cruiser fleets).
I'd play that game.
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Alton Voss
Chthonic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.29 19:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
As a new player I think it would be a great idea to eliminate the skills altogether. It would allow you to get right into the action as soon as you can earn the ISK rather than having to wait for some arbitrary skill timer to click done. Way I see it, if you are clever enough to get the ISK to fly a tripped out faction battleship in a month, then more power to you. Just don't come crying when someone with more player skill blasts it out from under you. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
919
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:18:00 -
[49] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:What if there was no SP, Prereqs and all Ships and Modules had Lvl V skill stats?
You enter the EVE World with nothing but 5000 ISK, a Rookie Ship and no insurance. Ships crew is included free with every ship purchase who know how to operate and fly everything at maximum efficiency you just direct them from the pod. Your limits on equipment is only money, how much you can make, how much others pay you. The only Skill in EVE is commanding your ship, the tactics you use, the fit of your ship and your reflexes.
Not talking on a business end for CCP, forget Plex, Alts, Multiboxing and Subscriptions as a thing. Forget feasibility it this isn't an idea.
How do you think the EVE landscape would change? Would the game be more fun, more enjoyable without time based improvement? How would you change your gameplay?
Hmm, Elite Dangerous? |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
384
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
No.
The history and community traditions of this game are all rooted in the "world" that the current skillpoint system has created.
IF the "OMGresetBUTAN" was ever pushed, then sure, you might consider such a concept at the outset -- but not 10 years in.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
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Alara IonStorm
4816
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Posted - 2013.03.29 20:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:No.
The history and community traditions of this game are all rooted in the "world" that the current skillpoint system has created.
IF the "OMGresetBUTAN" was ever pushed, then sure, you might consider such a concept at the outset -- but not 10 years in.
No to what?
This thread isn't a suggestion to change the game like at all.
That is why Hypothetical is in brackets and this thread isn't in F&I. |
Alton Voss
Chthonic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.29 21:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Felicity Love wrote:No.
The history and community traditions of this game are all rooted in the "world" that the current skillpoint system has created.
IF the "OMGresetBUTAN" was ever pushed, then sure, you might consider such a concept at the outset -- but not 10 years in.
No to what? This thread isn't a suggestion to change the game like at all. That is why Hypothetical is in brackets and this thread isn't in F&I.
Thats a shame because I think you hit the barrier to entry for this game right on the head. The skill system keeps new players locked out of some content for a certain period of time no matter how ambitious they are or how hard they work at it. So a lot of your more enthusiastic and active new players, the ones that would probably add a lot to the community, just quit for a different game rather than pay to wait for the content they want to play.
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marVLs
109
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Posted - 2013.03.29 21:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
Without this system i won't be playing EVE. For me it's the best system in game industry. I really want it to be in more MMO games |
Alara IonStorm
4816
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Posted - 2013.03.29 21:48:00 -
[54] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Without this system i won't be playing EVE. For me it's the best system in game industry. I really want it to be in more MMO games Direct time over XP Grind?
The only game I played with an XP grind was BSGO which also oddly enough had a Skill System, you had to grind the SP then train the Skill. I don't mind time skills, it is brutal though when I was a beginner with no support skills.
BSGO, terrible game but for different reasons... so very many reasons.
Alton Voss wrote: Thats a shame because I think you hit the barrier to entry for this game right on the head. The skill system keeps new players locked out of some content for a certain period of time no matter how ambitious they are or how hard they work at it. So a lot of your more enthusiastic and active new players, the ones that would probably add a lot to the community, just quit for a different game rather than pay to wait for the content they want to play.
It is very frustrating, once you have your support skills at IV-V it gets better though. You can start training all different ship types like Battlecruisers. But me I'm the type of player who would never be happy in a big slow Capital Ship.
The uphill climb is annoying but I hope you stick with it. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3008
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Remove skills, ships, mining, marketing, PVE, PVP, Highsec, lowsec, nullsec, WHsec, Stations, Gates, WHs, Celestials, Warping, Jumping, MWD, EWAR, Tanks, Drones, Corps, Alliances, Coalitions, all the chats, ISK, AUR, POSs, Ammo, modules, and subscription fees.
Issue everyone something called 'ship', armed with 1 modules called 'gun'.
Theoretically everyone would be happy and EvE would be dead.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
409
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Posted - 2013.03.29 23:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ever go on holiday, where you had more fun going to a place than actually having fun at that place. Yea your "hypothetial" just removes that anoying "fun" part. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
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Alara IonStorm
4823
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Posted - 2013.03.29 23:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Ever go on holiday, where you had more fun going to a place than actually having fun at that place. Yea your "hypothetial" just removes that anoying "fun" part. If it wasn't a hypothetical discussion of something everyone and their alts knows won't and shouldn't happen but a serious but deluded idea then where would this "fun" be? |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2013.03.30 07:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
Prefer that EvE remains a skill based game and the skills are difficult to level. Not due to longevity sake but because it is difficult to play and waiting nearly a month for one level to finish. When it is, you passed the patience test.
I left WoW after learning that Blacksmithing became EZMode. A lot of things I tolerated in that game, but that was the final straw. I've played MuDs where it took 3 years to master a single tradeskill, and when you did you were a rare find and got business due to it. With everyone but their dead uncle can be a mastercrafter, it's home for the worst in gaming -- exploiting the markets with bots. It took me a while to level my crafting toons (not buying bot mats) but when I got there I was proud.
I due though wish the other 2 slots on our account can be leveled, so we can level multiple role toons. And there's some benefit for leveling the toon for so long (like research points are done, but for queuing the longest skills). Points that can used for buying stuff or using as some bonus (something like BF24F uses, disposable duration based shields/modules and what not). |
Frying Doom
2044
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Posted - 2013.03.30 07:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
The skills over time training is what drew me to this game.
I could get better in the game while still working 14 hours a day 6 days a week.
So when I finally got to play once a week it was a nice thing to see me progress and not have to worry about to snotty teenager playing 16 hours a day leaving me behind. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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rodyas
tie fighters inc
1091
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Posted - 2013.03.30 08:04:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Prefer that EvE remains a skill based game and the skills are difficult to level. Not due to longevity sake but because it is difficult to play and waiting nearly a month for one level to finish. When it is, you passed the patience test.
I left WoW after learning that Blacksmithing became EZMode. A lot of things I tolerated in that game, but that was the final straw. I've played MuDs where it took 3 years to master a single tradeskill, and when you did you were a rare find and got business due to it. With everyone but their dead uncle can be a mastercrafter, it's home for the worst in gaming -- exploiting the markets with bots. It took me a while to level my crafting toons (not buying bot mats) but when I got there I was proud.
I due though wish the other 2 slots on our account can be leveled, so we can level multiple role toons. And there's some benefit for leveling the toon for so long (like research points are done, but for queuing the longest skills). Points that can used for buying stuff or using as some bonus (something like BF24F uses, disposable duration based shields/modules and what not).
I do like this, but the only reason I would disagree with you is because I like to go multiple routes instead of focusing on one path.
I do like the time stuff and the challenge, but once you change paths and keep facing it, it becomes kind of silly.
But if I was just to go one route, as well as the route being satisfying enough as you paint it to be, I wouldn't mind the way things are in this game.
As long as you shoot straight and stay narrow, I would say the SP system works well. Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
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