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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1648
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Posted - 2013.03.25 21:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
I don't think supers are the problem rather the current sov system is the problem, as it leads to long and boring sov grinds that everyone wants to avoid, so they'd rather agree to a non-aggression pact (NAP) and stage wargames than deal with sov.
Plus once you have your steady income from your moons, and your systems upgraded, there is little incentive to fight. Especially if you have to travel far to find someone you are not blue to.
I also think sov needs to change to remove strategic claims of unused space. An incentive for smaller entities to move in and use the space too. One of the reasons why w-space is so full is because of the relative protection it provides to smaller entities. |
Primary This Rifter
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2013.03.26 01:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Caldari Citizen 1897289768188 wrote:Be prepared for the flood of trolls from those in null and their pets as they try to get the thread locked. The article hits the nail on the head. I live in null and with the exception for the rare roam it is boaring. I refuse to do as most and create a alt just to gank hi-sec people.
We just sit and keep pumping the moon goo day in day out 23/7. I don't have an alt to gank highseccers. That's not something I'm interested in. And yet I don't find null boring at all. Yes, I'm an alt. Congratulations. |
Eight Two
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:
Sounds a bit like you don't like working for a specific employer anymore and think it's up to your boss to change your job description.
Who I've worked for in the past is irrelevant really, there's a lot of former nullsec players moving on to greener pastures for the reasons I stated. I have changed my job myself simply by refusing to participate.
Yes, CCP has work at their hands and according to this they are aware of the issues.
In the meantime it's up to the players that have driven this game for years to get that spirit back or fall and crumble under their own weight. That's the way things go always have and always will go. ~ Consequences ~ |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1352
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Posted - 2013.03.26 06:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Haha, DNS didn't do anything in nullsec before the rise of the supercapital (or ever for that matter) so what on earth makes him think any change to 0.0 will make his alliance more capable than it is?
Nothing, he's simply another guy who wants a game mechanic change to do something he is unwilling to do on his own. |
Prince Kobol
681
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Posted - 2013.03.26 10:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
I would make a couple of changes, one which is simple, then other is a lot more difficult.
First I would introduce a capital version the warp disrupter.
This version would only fit on capital ships allow capitals to warp disrupter each other.
Pretty sure this would lead to a more caps going boom which would be a good thing
In fact if this mod existed I am damn sure that a hell of a lot more caps would of died in Asakai
The second thing a hell of a lot more complicated.
Most people who build Titans + Sup Caps important most if not all of the materials needed from HS, This is wrong on so many levels.
However to stop people from doing this you need to fix industry in null sec.
Buff to manufacturing in player built stations, more low end ores, in fact a lot more low end ores need to be available.
I would also make it harder for them to built as well, as in before you install the ihub upgrade that allows you to build sup caps and a titans, you would require strategic and industry at level 5.
Strategic isn't so hard ( pretty sure most space held by goons would be at lvl 5 by now) but getting Indy to level 5 is very painful and anybody who is prepared to do that deserves to be able to sup caps and titans |
Asmodai Xodai
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dumb to blame supercapitals. Even dumber to lobby for their elimination.
However, besides that oversight, I applaud creative thinking and problem solving and desire to make the game better. Just go back to the drawing board as far as pointing out the problem and working out a better solution. |
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
1780
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Wrong forum section. Hyperfleet Industries is selectivly recruiting. Enquire today. Killboard
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LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
33
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
This Disney park crap has being going on for too long, it has caused mass inflation and that has made almost every highsec isk making activity a worthless grind. So that is forcing more and more players to pay rent to sov holding alliances to make their mountains of isk in nullsec. I don't think that getting more players into nullsec is a bad idea but forcing people into nullsec is what could ultimately break and then kill this game...
The players I play eve with are mostly very new players, and they don't feel ready to live in nullsec, I might be fine with living in null but most new players aren't, they don't feel ready and if you try to force them, they will simple quit the game.
My solution for highsec would be to make it more rewarding but with a lot more risk, that means no more easy lvl 4 missions, make those missions include some player vs player element, make them pay a lot more with the added risk of losing a ship. I could list many other ways to allow newer players in highsec enjoy the game more and learn more about living in nullsec while doing it but I don't want to ramble on.
Nullsec I don't have a clue how that should be fixed because its not even the root the cause, the moon problem? Erm no, the moons are positioned in such a way that people have to fight to control them, its not nullsec that needs fixing, its the players. Right now its a lot easier for smaller corps and alliances to rent from a bigger alliance that holds and rents out space, than it is for those smaller newer corps to band together and kick the living **** out those oppressive greedy alliances... |
Mord Fiddle
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
10
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Posted - 2013.03.26 12:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Haha, DNS didn't do anything in nullsec before the rise of the supercapital (or ever for that matter) so what on earth makes him think any change to 0.0 will make his alliance more capable than it is?
Nothing, he's simply another guy who wants a game mechanic change to do something he is unwilling to do on his own.
Says the guy running the teacups ride at nullsecDisney
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
250
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Posted - 2013.03.26 12:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
Andski wrote:iskflakes wrote:Andski wrote:so you don't actually have any clue what you're talking about
I see How's the technetium over there? let's not try to steer the topic away from "i'm wrong" because well you think that subcaps are immune to supercaps and that supercaps aren't concentrated in the hands of the few when given the numbers available (1-2k titans, 3-4k supercarriers, 500k active accounts) we can figure that only 1% of players own supercaps, and it doesn't help that players who do get supercaps tend to join whatever entity is the flavor of the month this was the case before dominion, after dominion, before crucible, after crucible, before the titan tracking nerf, after the titan tracking nerf and before and after whatever stupid buffs you want made to supercaps. you also think that having more supercaps than the other guy guarantees success when it doesn't (if it did, clearly supercaps are fine, right?) anyway removing supercaps is just as dumb as buffing them again
I really hate your post.. Why? Because I agree with it. I really friggn hate it when that happens. |
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pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
1069
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Posted - 2013.03.26 12:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
bad idea , supercaps are one of the cornerstones of nullsec powerprojection and one of the reasong why we train skills only problem i have with them that there are too many of them
I sense more jealousy in the OP than genuine concerns about the game I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Eve Amada
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
37
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Posted - 2013.03.26 13:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP should just remove supers.
Give players with super carriers 30 bil each for hull & place all their fittings in hanger.
Give players with titans 120 bil each for hull & place all their fittings in hanger.
Refund any skill points ONLY related to supers for reallocation.
Refund corp for all CSAA & CSMA mods, refund corps or players who have capital bpcs/bpos that pertain to supers only.
Refund players for mods that only work on supers.
Problem solved :P
CCP could call the expansion - "Extinction" |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
315
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Posted - 2013.03.26 14:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'd argue that supercaps aren't the direct problem, but more the titan-bridge, or perhaps moon-goo. Nullsec alliances have learned there isn't much point in risking massive amounts of value in attacks when an unknown amount of ships are likely to immediately appear directly onto your face. Anyone foolish enough to attack their space, and their epic fleets are no-more than one button push away. The old-school dinamics of null-wars are dead. Much easier to all sit in your respective space and make insane amounts of isk from moon-goo. Why risk that when everyone wants to maintain the status-quo?
Its been suggested before, in many different formats, but i believe that a shakeup of null is definately needed. Be that in the form of changes to the titan-bridge mechanics (such as range reduction or mass-limits), or changes to moon-goo (such as depletion and random location respawn).
Some argue that its the sov-grind that prevents alliances from really being bothered to fight, but i've always believed that null-players resist suggested changes because they dont want to risk the blue-donut. They're making far too much isk for that! And without their support, it isn't likely to change anytime soon. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Pantiy
Corporate Scum Test Friends Please Ignore
56
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Posted - 2013.03.26 15:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
this guy is smoking some of the best **** known to man ~|~(~-á (~~|~-á-á -á |-á-á (__)-á-á-á |
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Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
289
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Posted - 2013.03.26 15:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Eight Two wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
Sounds a bit like you don't like working for a specific employer anymore and think it's up to your boss to change your job description.
Who I've worked for in the past is irrelevant really, there's a lot of former nullsec players moving on to greener pastures for the reasons I stated. I have changed my job myself simply by refusing to participate. Yes, CCP has work at their hands and according to this they are aware of the issues. In the meantime it's up to the players that have driven this game for years to get that spirit back or fall and crumble under their own weight. That's the way things go always have and always will go. ~ Consequences ~
True, it doesn't matter who you worked for in the past. It matters who you work for now and if you enjoy logging in. It's up to you to determine your level of fun. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Tsuya
Irresponsible Use of Capital
6
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Posted - 2013.03.26 15:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
The ships aren't the problem, the problem is the watch list. If you think local is a perfect intel tool and needs changing, you need to look at the watch list with at least equal scrutiny.
The watch list is the feature that allows supercap fleets to avoid each other. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2330
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 15:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Supercapitals need buffs not nerfs.
The glaring flaws in your alarmist and badly thought out rant article:
* There are already at least 50 classes of ship that specifically counter supercaps, they're called subcaps and they're immune to all forms of supercap weapons * Supers never die not because they're too strong, but because they're too weak. All it takes is a few subcaps to show up and you're dead. The only way a supers gets used is with 100% safety, which means no fun for anybody. * The idea that supercaps are concentrated in the hands of "the few" is nonsense, there are thousands of super pilots and anybody can buy one * The real problem with nullsec is something completely different. The HBC has more supercaps than anybody else, so what's stopping them fighting the CFC? Clearly it's not a lack of supers -- it's a lack of reward and/or vested interest in technetium.
This. Just this.
Nerf moon mining, watch the "Super cap proliferation by a small handful of alliances" problem become a non issue.
Now, what to do with the stupidity factor in Eve given OPs like this one.... cause natural selection just isn't working fast enough.... Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2330
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Posted - 2013.03.26 15:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Andski wrote:anyway removing supercaps is just as dumb as buffing them again Okay, so what do you propose to do so that people actually have incentives to risk their supercaps willingly outside of "oh **** I clicked jump instead of bridge" or "oh **** I didn't align and a hostile dictor bubbled me". The solution is to make super pilots more self dependent, and less able to be rescued if they make a bad call. * Give supers & titans the ability to defend themselves against poorly prepared subcaps (this is the main reason they don't get used) * Add a mass limit to cynos, this makes it harder to subcap blob a tackled super and harder to drop more supers to save some idiot tackled super (this is the reason most sov bloc supers don't die even when they are facing a very well prepared subcap fleet) * Give supers and especially titans a 50% DPS increase, to make them worth using on structure bashes (right now people will use dreads if there's even a 1% risk, but if there's a 1% risk and a 50% faster structure kill they'll bring out their supers).
-1 to Cynos. Just delete them, allow caps to jump themselves with a capacitor requirements or spool up timers... or both.
And start lobbying for more Capital / Super capital hulls and roles... Because if the sub-cap line was as under developed as the capital ship line, every Eve player would either be flying around in a drone boat Logi, or a Battleship. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Mord Fiddle
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
11
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Posted - 2013.03.26 17:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:bad idea , supercaps are one of the cornerstones of nullsec powerprojection and one of the reasong why we train skills only problem i have with them that there are too many of them
I sense more jealousy in the OP than genuine concerns about the game
If I wanted to live in a theme park I'd have joined the blue doughnut. Not like it's hard these days. |
Mord Fiddle
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
11
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Posted - 2013.03.26 17:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tsuya wrote:The ships aren't the problem, the problem is the watch list. If you think local is a perfect intel tool and needs changing, you need to look at the watch list with at least equal scrutiny.
The watch list is the feature that allows supercap fleets to avoid each other, and the core reason that they are not dying in significant numbers.
Get rid of supercaps and the watchlist doesn't matter.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4415
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Posted - 2013.03.26 18:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mord Fiddle wrote:pussnheels wrote:bad idea , supercaps are one of the cornerstones of nullsec powerprojection and one of the reasong why we train skills only problem i have with them that there are too many of them
I sense more jealousy in the OP than genuine concerns about the game If I wanted to live in a theme park I'd have joined the blue doughnut. Not like it's hard these days. It's easier to whine about said blue doughnut that doesn't actually exist than doing anything about it, apparently. It's not our fault you're not trying to take our sov. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Twisted Girl
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
45
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Posted - 2013.03.26 19:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Anyone that accually flied a supercarrier knows its very vunerable alone, so everyone packs them together. and have support fleets covering most of their moves. The only thing a bunch of supers can do is "shock n awe" agains people not used to them for 1min before they gotto leave the field or get support in. Any orginized sub cap fleet will **** even 10 supers silly, the only thing supers is good at in those scenarios is to tank:p you basicly becomes a freighter in space without any ability to accually do any relieable damage. and if you try to do any damage you can say goodbye to your 5-600million worth of fighters.
what I agree on however is that its too many of them, and that most of the pilots is too risk adverse. However I cant blame people for beeing risk adverse so only solution is to create less of them. So they dont become just another battleship and a "must have" for every selfrespecting pvp pilot out there. There is several ways of doing this, some are prob not so great in ccps eyes:
* increase build cost (tho this prob hurts newer players that doesnt alrdy have a stockpile of them)
*add fuelcost (tho this makes no difference for the superrich, like i havent paid for my own fuel for 3 years, and while I use them quiet a bit most supercaps collect dust for 2 weeks , then get put into use of shooting a sbu before returning to semi inactivity, thus increased fuel cost got little effect on them)
*add a new material/or use a existing rare item, that supercaps/titans consume. I would suggest making a new, kinda like oil/energy item, that is rather limited and maybe just found in low sec? to give low sec people some more stuff. by controlling the amouth of energy/oil item in the game ccp can thus effect the amouth of active supers. Maybe make active supers that jump around a lot use a little bit more of this "oil" thing. without this oil the super cant recharge above 70% cap and thus it cant jump.
Also currently reason for that not more supers is dying is due to the orginisation of eve, its basicly darwin in space. Every ADD kid around there that screams more supers need to die, never get into the role of fcing with the power of accually killing supers for a reason. Because to kill non ******** a super require tons of pacience and maybe days or weeks of stalking. Most people that I know of that was/is semi good at stalking supers simply burn out after their 3th or 4th stalking superkill. Ofc there will always be some unlucky/stupid pilots getting caught, but to see tons of supers dying is unrealistic unless you gather 100 nerds without anything else to do than stalking supers 24/7. also the same kids usually never is willing/or noone is willing to follow them to put the required amouth of dps on the field to accually pull it off. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
245
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Posted - 2013.03.26 19:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
TLDR of the blog plz so that I may evaluate the elegancy of it Not today spaghetti. |
Mord Fiddle
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
11
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Posted - 2013.03.27 12:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:[quote=Mord Fiddle]Nullsec, long the public face of EVE Online, is broken. Oh, and is it just me, or did Hans not have anything of consequence to add to all the words he typed in the comments to your blog?
We've agreed to knock the idea around on a podcast in the near future.
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Cascinova Egnald
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.27 12:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
People afraid to engage with their supers? It is interesting how closely Eve mirrors real life in this instance. During world War II the German and British battleships sat in port most of the war. The reason was because they were such huge expensive ships and no one wanted to risk actually losing them, so they relied on smaller ships to do most of the fighting. |
Sentamon
795
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Posted - 2013.03.27 12:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: It's easier to whine about said blue doughnut that doesn't actually exist than doing anything about it, apparently. It's not our fault you're not trying to take our sov.
Yeah it is your fault, 100%, I'd explain it to you but I doubt you could comprehend it. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Zhade Lezte
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
97
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Posted - 2013.03.27 15:27:00 -
[57] - Quote
Death to all supercaps.
I've heard enough from other viewpoints to know this may not be a good thing for the game/I don't really understanding everything involved in sov null's problems, but still.
Death to
all
supercaps |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
290
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Posted - 2013.03.27 15:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
I would think it is kind of hard to see some sov null residents speak about how sov null is all about empire building, while enforcing that with mechanics that are meant to bypass those same borders and make them obsolete.
What's the point of saying "this is my area" if you can easily be across the map where your empire isn't relevant?
As supercaps being the problem with that... well, let's ask the sov residents without it being a matter of people speaking out of turn-
Sov residents, do you think supercaps help build your empire, or help ignore borders by allowing far jumps and power projection to conveniently ignore the limitations of owning that area of space?
If you can own space in the top left of sov space, why should it be possible to logistically move a force so far away? "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2013.03.27 15:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
OP, I get the feeling you haven't read this.
I read your piece last night before seeing this thread, and at first it seemed well-thought-out, you had these fitting real-world references to war, and you used decent grammar/spelling.
But then it's like your brain flew away and you ended up going batshit crazy. You obviously missed more than a few steps in my acclaimed flow chart, not least of which is working out consequences of your idea.
Your lesser offences of:
-Posting something that has been posted 100x before
-Unable to take criticism
and
-Posting in the wrong forum
Well those don't even compare to your grievous offences of:
-Not understanding that there are consequences to your idea
-Refusing to even try to read/understand constructive criticism (for someone with a 'serious' idea your responses in this thread are just trolls, so nice try!)
and last but not least:
-Not actually knowing enough about different facets of the game and/or CCP's overall philosophy to properly weigh your idea (hint: it would never happen, not in a million years, not for a million tears)
Given how seriously you take yourself, I will assume this is not a troll-post/blog/whatever. So therefore, you good sir need to remove the pants from your head so you can see a little better. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2013.03.27 15:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:I would think it is kind of hard to see some sov null residents speak about how sov null is all about empire building, while enforcing that with mechanics that are meant to bypass those same borders and make them obsolete.
What's the point of saying "this is my area" if you can easily be across the map where your empire isn't relevant?
As supercaps being the problem with that... well, let's ask the sov residents without it being a matter of people speaking out of turn-
Sov residents, do you think supercaps help build your empire, or help ignore borders by allowing far jumps and power projection to conveniently ignore the limitations of owning that area of space?
If you can own space in the top left of sov space, why should it be possible to logistically move a force so far away?
I don't agree you lumping power projection in with supercapitals as a problem.
Related problems perhaps, but not the same one.
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