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iyammarrok
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
20
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Posted - 2013.03.22 21:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Calathorn Virpio wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Well, the leaked video of a Dust battlefield littered with wreckage and, I dunno, a burning Caldari titan in the background, wasn't a hint? that. and the fact the titan didn't shoot its doomsday ONCE ccp didn't want to accidently make it possible for the caldari to win
It did... at CONCORD.
a CONCORD battleship at that.
the Caldari admiral mentioned the Oblivion module was 'cooling down' after she shot him.
still confused as to how that occurred... i guess her crew were just that good of an aim... right? |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
36
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Posted - 2013.03.22 21:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Namdor wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:Namdor wrote:Quote:1. DD can't be fired in empire space at all - fundamental mechanic that can't be changed on the fly, ....yeah, right. I sincerely doubt it would require much more than flipping a single boolean field somewhere. Are you bestowed of "Dev-level" knowledge? no? - then shut up. ...yeah, it's a computer program, dude. It's not magic. It would be trivially easy to enable the Shiigeru's DD in high security without impacting anything else in the game. If it had been as simple as you suggest, they would have DD'd the Concord ship rather than 'RP'ing' the firing of Oblivon in local channel.
But nope, clearly it must be a simple switch that the Dev's forgot about, because you, our resident 'expert' says so...
P.s you snipped the rest of my comment - what difference would 1 DD have made, oh right yes, bugger all.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Namdor
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
38
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Posted - 2013.03.22 21:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote: P.s you snipped the rest of my comment - what difference would 1 DD have made, oh right yes, bugger all.
I didn't want to dilute the unadulterated idiocy inherent in the assertion that it is simply IMPOSSIBLE for CCP to fire a DD in high sec without destroying the very fabric of the Eve universe. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
36
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Posted - 2013.03.22 22:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
Namdor wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote: P.s you snipped the rest of my comment - what difference would 1 DD have made, oh right yes, bugger all.
I didn't want to dilute the unadulterated idiocy inherent in the assertion that it is simply IMPOSSIBLE for CCP to fire a DD in high sec without destroying the very fabric of the Eve universe.
I'll just quote myself here:
Quote:1. DD can't be fired in empire space at all - fundamental mechanic that can't be changed on the fly,
Care to exaggerate more?
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
36
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Posted - 2013.03.22 22:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Anyhow getting back to the point: A truly 'scripted eventGÇÖ, would have occurred during downtime with no player involvement.
Or, Involved invulnerable event actors, thus with no player involvement.
Or, Event actors to which firing upon elicited a CONCORD response, with *lol* player involvement.
I also donGÇÖt understand the surprise at the FN holding the advantage in their own territory, particularly when the backstory goes into great detail about the disparity in size between the two navies. Even so, if the players involved had really wanted to, the outcome could have been very differentGǪ The OP appears to be mad just because it didnGÇÖt work out the way *he* wanted.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Namdor
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
38
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Posted - 2013.03.22 22:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Namdor wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote: P.s you snipped the rest of my comment - what difference would 1 DD have made, oh right yes, bugger all.
I didn't want to dilute the unadulterated idiocy inherent in the assertion that it is simply IMPOSSIBLE for CCP to fire a DD in high sec without destroying the very fabric of the Eve universe. I'll just quote myself here: Quote:1. DD can't be fired in empire space at all - fundamental mechanic that can't be changed on the fly, Care to exaggerate more? And if this really were somehting that could be changed on the fly, it would have been done because they [Caldari] 'DD'd' the Concord special Ops BS... (but actually just talked about it in local after what was quite clearly a '/heal0')
"They didn't, therefor they couldn't," is uniquely idiotic reasoning. They can quite obviously break any of the normal game rules with trivial ease, and do so all the time. There was a capital fleet fight in a 1.0 system today, maybe you heard about it. Normally not the kind of the thing that can happen but, lo and behold, it's almost like they don't have to actually do too much work to accomplish these kinds of things.
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Ivan Ward
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
134
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Posted - 2013.03.22 22:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Calathorn Virpio wrote:how does a titan go from "shields nominal"
to "all hands abandon ship"
in 2 minutes unless it's scripted?
Dabigredboat might teach you something about losing capital ships and I'm pretty sure there's a thing or two concerning Titans in there as well. I also think Tetania may contribute. "Hot pilots we have problems too, we're just like you." |
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
20
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Posted - 2013.03.22 22:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Anyhow getting back to the point: A truly 'scripted eventGÇÖ, would have occurred during downtime with no player involvement.
Or, Involved invulnerable event actors, thus with no player involvement.
Or, Event actors to which firing upon elicited a CONCORD response, with *lol* player involvement.
I also donGÇÖt understand the surprise at the FN holding the advantage in their own territory, particularly when the backstory goes into great detail about the disparity in size between the two navies. Even so, if the players involved had really wanted to, the outcome could have been very differentGǪ The OP appears to be mad just because it didnGÇÖt work out the way *he* wanted.
no just mad that it wasn't what CCP said it would be, an event were we the players decided what happened.
the accidental leak of the dying titan gave it away.
had the dev fleets been near evenly matched and the fight being totally determined by who all showed up and who they supported, i would have been fine with the outcome.
instead, no matter what we did, our titan still died. doesn't sound like we had much of a say in what happened after all CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
175
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Posted - 2013.03.22 23:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
no just mad that it wasn't what CCP said it would be, an event were we the players decided what happened.
the accidental leak of the dying titan gave it away.
had the dev fleets been near evenly matched and the fight being totally determined by who all showed up and who they supported, i would have been fine with the outcome.
instead, no matter what we did, our titan still died. doesn't sound like we had much of a say in what happened after all
The player fleets resoundingly came down on the Gallente side, and you claim that therefore the titan destruction was scripted? If you had massive capsuleer advantage on the Caldari side and the titan still went down, then you would have claim. Yet as it is it looks totally like players had say in the events, and they chose to say the Titan was going pop. Unless you want to claim that those hundreds of players supporting the Gallente (One way or another) don't count. |
Sobach
Fourth Circle
88
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Posted - 2013.03.22 23:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
not to mention it wouldn't make sense for the dev fleet to be "evenly matched", this is Gallente home turf, deal with it. |
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
176
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Posted - 2013.03.22 23:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
DD can't be fired in high sec. . . You mean like how Capitals can't enter highsec either? Yet they did. If they want or need something to happen for an event, it happens. === I am not sure whether or not the titan's death was scripted or it was legitimately shot, down, but you can't deny CCP stacked the deck to ensure that outcome regardless of player participation. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
175
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Posted - 2013.03.23 00:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:DD can't be fired in high sec. . . You mean like how Capitals can't enter highsec either? Yet they did. If they want or need something to happen for an event, it happens. === I am not sure whether or not the titan's death was scripted or it was legitimately shot, down, but you can't deny CCP stacked the deck to ensure that outcome regardless of player participation. Capitals can 'be' in high sec. They just can't jump into high sec. But there are a few people with Capitals left over in high sec currently. Carriers various places and Chribba has a Titan doesn't he? They aren't allowed to PvP/E with them I understand because they aren't meant to have access. But there is nothing magical that stops you flying one in high sec other than the problem that you can't jump into high sec. Once there High sec doesn't blow a capital up.
However DD's only work in Null. not even in low. Meaning changing that flag probably would have meant 24 hours with DD's useable in Low sec, meaning a massive change to low sec fights for a day. And coding a dirty work around for just Luminaire may have had unintended consequences. |
Sobach
Fourth Circle
90
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Posted - 2013.03.23 01:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:You mean like how Capitals can't enter highsec either? Yet they did. If they want or need something to happen for an event, it happens. === I am not sure whether or not the titan's death was scripted or it was legitimately shot, down, but you can't deny CCP stacked the deck to ensure that outcome regardless of player participation.
so you say, but...
CCP Eterne wrote:Titan doomsdays are hardcoded not to work in high sec. There was no way we could used it without rewriting fundamental game code, something that wasn't feasible.
...yea :p
And there's nothing wrong with stacking the deck, this is federation home turf, it'd be illogical if the deck was not stacked. They said players can influence the outcome, they didn't say it'd be easy to change or that it'd be fair. |
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
21
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Posted - 2013.03.23 04:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Calathorn Virpio wrote:
no just mad that it wasn't what CCP said it would be, an event were we the players decided what happened.
the accidental leak of the dying titan gave it away.
had the dev fleets been near evenly matched and the fight being totally determined by who all showed up and who they supported, i would have been fine with the outcome.
instead, no matter what we did, our titan still died. doesn't sound like we had much of a say in what happened after all
The player fleets resoundingly came down on the Gallente side, and you claim that therefore the titan destruction was scripted? If you had massive capsuleer advantage on the Caldari side and the titan still went down, then you would have claim. Yet as it is it looks totally like players had say in the events, and they chose to say the Titan was going pop. Unless you want to claim that those hundreds of players supporting the Gallente (One way or another) don't count.
oh, they helped, but the 30 dreads was the deciding factor, going into siege mode, they became too damn hard to pop before the titan died. remove all player, gallente wins, instead of being a coinflip. CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
21
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Posted - 2013.03.23 04:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote:Calathorn Virpio wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Well, the leaked video of a Dust battlefield littered with wreckage and, I dunno, a burning Caldari titan in the background, wasn't a hint? that. and the fact the titan didn't shoot its doomsday ONCE ccp didn't want to accidently make it possible for the caldari to win It did... at CONCORD. a CONCORD battleship at that. the Caldari admiral mentioned the Oblivion module was 'cooling down' after she shot him. still confused as to how that occurred... i guess her crew were just that good of an aim... right? as for the 'can't be fired in highsec' quote... CONCORD limitations affect FREELANCE CAPSULEERS (meaning players)... of course the faction navies can use their own ships and modules in space. there are consequences... as i hope the Caldari Navy are soon to find out... after shooting a DED officer, i have a feeling there is going to be some form of CONCORD fallout regarding that. or there bloody well should be at least.
ahem, another of my posts got a dev answer, no DD's in high sec, soooo.....titan=useless shiny CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
Sivren Ravenwood
Mandalorian Acquisitions The Gallows Alliance
16
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Posted - 2013.03.23 09:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
(Gò»-¦Gûí-¦n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ |
Darkblad
100 Percent Grey
0
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Posted - 2013.03.23 09:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Things may have been different when people would'nt have thought "I'll be on a Titan Killmail!" and - additionaly - if those 10+ Chimeras still on Scan had entered to the field. Didn't happen.
Titan kill did happen (no repair done to the shields while the Chimeras and Wyverns got taken care of was another point for the advantage of the Gallente side). There was a moment when the Leviathan started to turn its nose toward the planet's surface, which resulted in calling it primary and so it popped.
The DUST map showing Titan wreckage might as well have been sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Agreed, that CCP wanted to make sure that this map can be used in terms of correct storyline. But to me it looks like they did that with the Gallente fielding a fleet suitable to them being in their own territory, player activity and fielding no more caldari support capitals than players could deal with. |
Ice Brewer
Brave Newbies Inc.
5
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Posted - 2013.03.23 16:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Of course it was scripted, they spent time and effort making a really pretty Dust map for Petes sakes.
The problem isnt that it was scripted, but the fact it was being advertises that it wouldnt be scripted, quotes such as "You can shape the outcome"
THATS THE BULLSHIT |
Lady PimpStar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.03.23 18:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
Expected to see Federation Fleet Destroyed first,, then the Caldari fleet destroyed by players. When I seen the 25 Dreads warp in I just logged off cause I knew nothing would of mattered with the player cap being at 1,000 players. Day dreamed about RnK's warping a fleet in for a nice video and really messing up the scripted event but ya. Caught the feed later on after the event was over.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
183
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Posted - 2013.03.23 23:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Lady PimpStar wrote:Expected to see Federation Fleet Destroyed first,, then the Caldari fleet destroyed by players. When I seen the 25 Dreads warp in I just logged off cause I knew nothing would of mattered with the player cap being at 1,000 players. Day dreamed about RnK's warping a fleet in for a nice video and really messing up the scripted event but ya. Caught the feed later on after the event was over.
Player cap was 2000 when the fight occured. It spiked beyond 2k for a bit then settled back to slightly under 2k for the next hour or two. |
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Commander A9
The Scope Gallente Federation
144
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Posted - 2013.03.24 03:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
I got to say, I had fun at this event, and I'd gladly do it again!
Though in response to whether the event was 'scripted,' I'd say 3 things I noticed:
1. Weren't the Caldari outnumbered in terms of numbers of capitals? I know they were in terms of player support (main Live Events fleets were 230+ Gallente vs. 80-100 Caldari).
2. Gallente had home-field advantage, so of course Gallente would be able to bring in as much as they could, while Caldari could only field limited numbers until the door closed on them.
3. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a veteran of null-sec combat, but Isn't a Moros a significantly more capable dreadnought than a Phoenix? That and the Moros Dreadnoughts were at point-blank range to their targets. Nothing is going to be able to defend against 20+ combined fire effects from Moros ships, so it's no surprise the Titan went down. I've felt the power of the Moros in Singularity, and if there's any relation between Singularity and Tranquility, the Moros is a tough nut to crack. Recommendations: -bring back the Jukebox! -enable ships wobbling in hangar view (pre-Captains Quarters) -add more missions (NPC fleet vs. NPC fleets that actually shoot) -less focus on graphics, more on mechanics |
Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
258
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Posted - 2013.03.24 15:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Commander A9 wrote:I got to say, I had fun at this event, and I'd gladly do it again!
Though in response to whether the event was 'scripted,' I'd say 3 things I noticed:
1. Weren't the Caldari outnumbered in terms of numbers of capitals? I know they were in terms of player support (main Live Events fleets were 230+ Gallente vs. 80-100 Caldari).
Yes, Caldari were significantly outnumbered in terms of capital ships on field. In particular, the Federation deployed a total of 32 Moroses, more than the entire Caldari capital/supercapital fleet combined. Capsuleer support is objectively harder to quantify in terms of people actually trying to fight for a side; there were certainly more people shooting Caldari ships, but I would wager that had as much, if not more, to do with people wanting to be on a titan kill than any absolute loyalty to a faction.
Quote:2. Gallente had home-field advantage, so of course Gallente would be able to bring in as much as they could, while Caldari could only field limited numbers until the door closed on them.
Indeed; apparently the only reason the Caldari were able to slip ships into the system in the first place was due to a temporarily failure of Luminaire's cyno-jammer allowing the initial 3 Wyverns in, followed by a secondary Caldari force - the Phoenixes, Chimeras, and last Wyvern - slipping in during a brief window in which the cyno-jammer was deliberately lowered in order to allow the Federation fleet to enter.
Quote:3. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a veteran of null-sec combat, but Isn't a Moros a significantly more capable dreadnought than a Phoenix? That and the Moros Dreadnoughts were at point-blank range to their targets. Nothing is going to be able to defend against 20+ combined fire effects from Moros ships, so it's no surprise the Titan went down. I've felt the power of the Moros in Singularity, and if there's any relation between Singularity and Tranquility, the Moros is a tough nut to crack.
Again, "more capable" is difficult to objectively quantify. The Moros has a steadier tank compared to the Phoenix's powerful-but-brief shield boosting, and as you say the Moros' DPS is truly awesome at short range, while the Phoenix benefits from the ability to deliver unflagging DPS at any range out to about 50km. This is what bugged a lot of people I was watching the feed with - not only was the Caldari fleet massively outnumbered, but by ignoring the primary strength of their weaponry and playing directly to the Moros' strongest position, they all be ensured their defeat. Moreover, for many roleplayers this represented a stupendous error on the part of a supposedly veteran Admiral.
Now for my thoughts: I am not hugely upset that, objectively, the space battle seems to have had a pre-determined outcome. Viewed in the context of this largely being a show-off fight for the PAX event, it makes absolute sense to me that CCP would aim to make the most numerous and largest explosions they could (my feelings on the 1000-person cap is much the same).
However.
I am somewhat upset that this occurred after repeated assurances that this was a fight in which players could control the outcome, that the leaked Dust 514 skybox was "not what we were thinking it was", etc. Not raging-mad-spitting-flames-at-CCP mad; I still have serious respect for the Live Events team. I do think it is a legitimate criticism, however, to suggest that advertising an event as player-controlled and then to set up the fight so that a Caldari victory would be a complete and total miracle, requiring the complete cooperation of a huge fraction of the one thousand players allowed in system, is a choice that would inevitably be perceived as a "bait-and-switch", "railroading", "totally scripted", etc, and be intensely frustrating and even badly angering to those who came with the actual hope of being able to defend the titan. |
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
25
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Posted - 2013.03.24 16:44:00 -
[53] - Quote
^^^^^^
one of the caldari supporters upset at being told i could possibly cjange the outcome, pop into system and find me and about 200 other RP's against 30 dreds, the gallente RP's AND everyone else who just wanted on a titan KM.
market an event as what it REALLY is, people don't like being lied to CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
27
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Posted - 2013.03.26 01:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:I think the one thing we can all agree on is that at least it was a better ending than Mass Effect 3.
i LIKED me3's ending (the extended one with all the dlc, filled in a LOT of gaps)
a games ending will usually **** people off CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
451
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:07:00 -
[55] - Quote
Craawwwlliing in my skiiiiin...these woooords they willll not heeaallll... |
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
27
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:Craawwwlliing in my skiiiiin...these woooords they willll not heeaallll...
WTF? CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
First Bass
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
Calathorn Virpio wrote:Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:Craawwwlliing in my skiiiiin...these woooords they willll not heeaallll... WTF?
It's a Linkin Park song mate.
Also, event was scripted, deal with it v0v |
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
27
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
First Bass wrote:Calathorn Virpio wrote:Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:Craawwwlliing in my skiiiiin...these woooords they willll not heeaallll... WTF? It's a Linkin Park song mate. Also, event was scripted, deal with it v0v
never!
CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
Shepard 415
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.04.27 19:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:1. DD can't be fired in empire space at all - fundamental mechanic that can't be changed on the fly, besides even if you could - 1 DD, 1 target blapped - big deal.
. and no caps in empire |
Calathorn Virpio
Golden Construction Inc. Legacy Rising
238
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Posted - 2013.04.28 03:37:00 -
[60] - Quote
Shepard 415 wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:1. DD can't be fired in empire space at all - fundamental mechanic that can't be changed on the fly, besides even if you could - 1 DD, 1 target blapped - big deal.
. and no caps in empire
why do you think i called scripted?
no way to get CAPS into highsec anymore. and what few ARE in highsec are years old CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
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