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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lord Zim
2308
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:31:00 -
[481] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:One word: Jita. Can I **** someone over in Jita? Yes, yes I can. Can I shoot them? Yes, as soon as they undock. Is it a PVP area? Why yes, yes indeed.
Ace Uoweme wrote:And all other major trade hubs. Are there any special circumstances to other "major trade hubs"? Why no, no there aren't.
And now, the weather. It appears to be raining pubbie tears. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. RIP Vile Rat |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3094
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:32:00 -
[482] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:One word: Jita.
And all other major trade hubs.
That idea of "the whole game is 'the PvP area'" is moot.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Jita
The 541 people who lost their ship in Jita today might tend to disagree with you. Also the 452 people who lost their pods. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
126
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Posted - 2013.04.02 10:05:00 -
[483] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:One word: Jita.
And all other major trade hubs.
That idea of "the whole game is 'the PvP area'" is moot. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Jita The 541 people who lost their ship in Jita today might tend to disagree with you. Also the 452 people who lost their pods. Just because you can't smartbomb the undock does not mean it's not a PvP area (you cannot smartbomb any station's Undock).
more's the pity. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2013.04.02 10:45:00 -
[484] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: Hmmm I consider Jita market to be PvP, but in many ways with all the Market BOTS 0.01 ISKing it may be more PvB
Okay, PvP of markets.
But it's still off limits to wonderful things like a Kamikaze dive into about 15 ships at the naval station.
So PvP here is quite selective. If the trade hubs are protected why the spotty protection in high-sec is "okay"? Jita is in high-sec afterall.
If EvE is a sandbox game players can be creative in taking down targets, and the targets are no different in Jita than 2 jumps away in a 7.0 system. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2013.04.02 10:59:00 -
[485] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Just because you can't smartbomb the undock does not mean it's not a PvP area (you cannot smartbomb any station's Undock).
It's conditional PvP in a game suppose to be ABOUT 24/7 PvP.
I didn't have any conditions throwing 100000000000000000000000001 nades down a titan hallway.
I didn't have any conditions perched on a ledge throwing 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 nades smack on top of heads of whole squads.
I didn't have any conditions using grenade launchers and killing scores at a time.
I didn't have any conditions planting APMs, C4 or RDX. Pod in, drop, BOOM!
But somehow I can't smartbomb a dock with the same ships seen and used all over EvE. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Lord Zim
2308
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Posted - 2013.04.02 11:02:00 -
[486] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:DarthNefarius wrote: Hmmm I consider Jita market to be PvP, but in many ways with all the Market BOTS 0.01 ISKing it may be more PvB
Okay, PvP of markets. But it's still off limits to wonderful things like a Kamikaze dive into about 15 ships at the naval station. So PvP here is quite selective. If the trade hubs are protected why the spotty protection in high-sec is "okay"? Jita is in high-sec afterall. If EvE is a sandbox game players can be creative in taking down targets, and the targets are no different in Jita than 2 jumps away in a 7.0 system. I can suicide gank people going to/from the station. Them being "trade hubs" doesn't make it safe in those systems. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. RIP Vile Rat |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
295
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Posted - 2013.04.02 15:16:00 -
[487] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:So Thunderdome is being supported by ice miners because people don't want to fight over those ice belts. Got it. Nobody said anything of the sort. Quote:Guess I had it wrong when I read Mittani talking about any force trying to get into tech moon mining would be hellcamped. Why wouldn't people want to defend their income sources? Quote:Oh wait, maybe its because people CAN do both at the same time! You should look into the difference between passive and active. Show me how you can mine Ice at the same time you're hellcamping someone in reprisal for an attack on a Tech moon with the same account? If someone's using more accounts than you are to make money, of course they're going to have an advantage. But that advantage has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so we assume account number parity. That is to say: If someone's spending time on one account defending a Tech moon, that is time that he cannot spend on that account mining Ice (this is obviously true, and it's ridiculous that I keep having to spell it out for you). Quote:Since you like using stocks and bonds... you do realize you can buy a savings bond and need to wait for it to mature to get the most out of it while playing the stock market right? No, you actually can't do both at the same time with the same resources. Purchasing a Bond means that you cannot use the same money, at the same time, to purchase stocks. In EVE terms, Defending a Tech moon means that you cannot use the same account, at the same time, to Mine Ice. Again, all it takes to compete with the combined income from all Tech moons is a group of a similar size to Goonswarm willing to contribute 250m/month to the cause. If you don't have similar numbers, of course each member is going to have to contribute more (again, obvious. Larger groups have advantages over smaller groups because 1+1 > 1). And, as Empirical Proof that non-Tech owners can kick the pants off of compete with Tech owners, we have the DRF's conquest and eviction of the Northern Coalition.
You are so flawed it isn't even funny. Hellcamping in reprisal does not equal passive income.
Take the time to reread the thread. You are losing focus.
"I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami No Value
295
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Posted - 2013.04.02 15:22:00 -
[488] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Oh wait, maybe its because people CAN do both at the same time! You should look into the difference between passive and active. The only difference is that one requires manhours to produce ISK whereas the other requires manhours to produce ISK. Oh wait. That's not a difference. The only difference is that one is assumed to be passive when it really isn't. Beyond that, they are comparable, competitive, and the complaint that they aren't has on multiple occasions proven to be false. Believing it today, with all there is to show the exact opposite, is ridiculously ignorant. Actually, there's a second difference too: the supposedly (but not actually) GÇ£passiveGÇ¥ income is actually better described as static, whereas the GÇ£activeGÇ¥ can be dynamically scaled to fit your needs and can trivially outpace the static income if that's what you want.
Well, considering you don't need seperate man hours to produce at the same time....
It's all in the rate isn't it? What's the cycle time on a moon mining pos, let's do this per hour like you were fond of....
How much moongo is cycled per hour, and how how many of those hours do you need to be online for it to cycle? "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3106
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:25:00 -
[489] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:You are so flawed it isn't even funny. Hellcamping in reprisal does not equal passive income.
Take the time to reread the thread. You are losing focus.
Well, now that you're calling Moon Mining an active income source, we can certainly see how it competes with other active income sources like Ice Mining. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Lord Zim
2315
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:32:00 -
[490] - Quote
When you manufacture, you can setup 30+ days worth of manufacturing. Nerf manufacturing, it's a passive income.
When you buy/sell at the market, you can setup buy/sell orders that last for 90 days. Nerf buying/selling, it's a passive income. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. RIP Vile Rat |
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Frying Doom
2117
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:34:00 -
[491] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:When you manufacture, you can setup 30+ days worth of manufacturing. Nerf manufacturing, it's a passive income.
When you buy/sell at the market, you can setup buy/sell orders that last for 90 days. Nerf buying/selling, it's a passive income. And these create resources out of thin air how? We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7273
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:36:00 -
[492] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:It's conditional PvP in a game suppose to be ABOUT 24/7 PvP.
Seems you misunderstood "hyper-competitive PvP environment" as "a fragfest like Darkfall" ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Lord Zim
2315
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:37:00 -
[493] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:When you manufacture, you can setup 30+ days worth of manufacturing. Nerf manufacturing, it's a passive income.
When you buy/sell at the market, you can setup buy/sell orders that last for 90 days. Nerf buying/selling, it's a passive income. And these create resources out of thin air how? They create resources in the same manner moonmining does. You insert POS fuel, out poops moongoo. You insert minerals to a manufacturing slot, out poops various stuff. You insert isk into buy orders, out poops various stuff. You insert various stuff into sell orders, out poops isk. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. RIP Vile Rat |
Frying Doom
2117
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:39:00 -
[494] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:When you manufacture, you can setup 30+ days worth of manufacturing. Nerf manufacturing, it's a passive income.
When you buy/sell at the market, you can setup buy/sell orders that last for 90 days. Nerf buying/selling, it's a passive income. And these create resources out of thin air how? They create resources in the same manner moonmining does. You insert POS fuel, out poops moongoo. You insert minerals to a manufacturing slot, out poops various stuff. You insert isk into buy orders, out poops various stuff. You insert various stuff into sell orders, out poops isk. Ok if you believe they are the same thing.
Not that it matters I think Odyssey will butcher moon mining, or at least redistribute the number of moons holding any mineral, so they will not be worth much anyway.
Now if they stop them being top down income as well the better it will be lol We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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Lord Zim
2315
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:41:00 -
[495] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Ok if you believe they are the same thing. They're the same thing, but different. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. RIP Vile Rat |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13437
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Posted - 2013.04.02 23:41:00 -
[496] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:It's conditional PvP in a game suppose to be ABOUT 24/7 PvP. There's nothing conditional about it, so no.
Quote:But somehow I can't smartbomb a dock with the same ships seen and used all over EvE. Your point being?
Murk Paradox wrote:Well, considering you don't need seperate man hours to produce at the same time.... GǪoverlooking the fact that you do need to spend man-hours to produce. Wait. Why should I consider a scenario that has no connection to reality again?
Quote:It's all in the rate isn't it? What's the cycle time on a moon mining pos, let's do this per hour like you were fond of....
How much moongo is cycled per hour, and how how many of those hours do you need to be online for it to cycle? Oh dear. Maybe you should go and have a look at how moon mining arrays actually work. It's not something I'm GÇ£fond ofGÇ¥ GÇö it's how the game works. You should probably also go back in the thread and look at what it is we're counting and what type of hour we're counting byGǪ
It cycles 168 times a week, and in that time, by your account, you need to spend just under 1,000 man-hours to ensure that it does. So if that's how you want to break it down: you need to spend ~5.5 hours online for every hour of moon mining. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:38:00 -
[497] - Quote
Tippia wrote:There's nothing conditional about it, so no.
There are conditions. Just look where you can't use smartbombs.
Read above.
When I play PvP I use every and any high damage AoE I can find. L-o-v-e blowing up masses. If I can't get in due to whatever block, I'll find a way to rig up a vehicle with explosives and run it into the enemy's defensives. If I can't get a vehicle in, I'd pod or whatever in and drop them.
Can't do that in EvE, there's conditions on what can be used and where.
Carebear PvP.
Study warfare. Those generals and admirals didn't play by the book, they reinvented the book instead. They didn't wait for the President to give the order, they used their noodle and improvised as needed. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:41:00 -
[498] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:It's conditional PvP in a game suppose to be ABOUT 24/7 PvP. Seems you misunderstood "hyper-competitive PvP environment" as "a fragfest like Darkfall"
What's competitive with Goons camping gates again?
What's competitive with blob fleets?
What's competitive when or where you can even use a weapon?
Nothing "hyper" there but hype. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Lord Zim
2315
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:50:00 -
[499] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:There are conditions. Just look where you can't use smartbombs. I suggest you remove that condition and see what happens. I'm sure we'll make good use of that on, say, the jita undock. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. RIP Vile Rat |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:54:00 -
[500] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I suggest you remove that condition and see what happens. I'm sure we'll make good use of that on, say, the jita undock.
I can't without getting sanctioned or permabanned.
But go ahead, Zim. I'm sure you can fly a bigger ship than I with a massive bomb that can crater the naval station, right?
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3106
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:55:00 -
[501] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:Andski wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:It's conditional PvP in a game suppose to be ABOUT 24/7 PvP. Seems you misunderstood "hyper-competitive PvP environment" as "a fragfest like Darkfall" What's competitive with Goons camping gates again?
Anyone who wants to compete with them for control of the gate.
Quote:What's competitive with blob fleets?
Anyone who wants to compete with them for the space they're controlling.
Quote:What's competitive when or where you can even use a weapon?
That's not a comprehensible sentence.
Every game has mechanics. One of the mechanics in EVE is that you cannot use AOE damage weaponry in range of a station (Bombs and Smartbombs). If you want to kill people on an undock, use targeted weaponry. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2013.04.03 03:14:00 -
[502] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Quote:What's competitive when or where you can even use a weapon? That's not a comprehensible sentence. Every game has mechanics. One of the mechanics in EVE is that you cannot use AOE damage weaponry in range of a station (Bombs and Smartbombs). Just like you cannot warp to 200 or target our past 250km. How you can compete with someone has no bearing on whether you're allowed to compete with them. In Chess, you cannot move a pawn 4 spaces forward on the first move. Does that make Chess "not competitive"? If you want to kill people on an undock, use targeted weaponry. There's nothing stopping you from doing that.
It's comprehensive enough, because the conditions are when or where you can even use your weapons.
EvE isn't chess. EvE is a space shooter. It's more aligned with a FPS game in space with a missing WASD. This is probably why you're confused to why CONCORD = Protection. CONCORD is like the guards in Stormwind, slow/off attacking the enemy, and you will die as someone tanks them while attacking you. You know darn right CONCORD isn't much of any protection, or your Goons wouldn't be gatecamping in high-sec. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3106
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Posted - 2013.04.03 03:16:00 -
[503] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:It's comprehensive enough, because the conditions are when or where you can even use your weapons.
1. Comprehensible. Not comprehensive. Two entirely different words.
2. That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there can be competition in those areas (as in, you can use other weapons or bump your target until you can use Smartbombs on them).
Quote:EvE isn't chess. EvE is a space shooter. It's more aligned with a FPS game in space with a missing WASD. This is probably why you're confused to why CONCORD = Protection. CONCORD is like the guards in Stormwind, slow/off attacking the enemy, and you will die as someone tanks them while attacking you. You know darn right CONCORD isn't much of any protection, or your Goons wouldn't be gatecamping in high-sec.
3. CONCORD cannot be Tanked.
4. Never said how much protection CONCORD provides, just that that is the service it provides. Just like the fact that a Bulletproof vest does not provide perfect protection does not indicate that protection is not the service that it provides. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2013.04.03 04:00:00 -
[504] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:It's comprehensive enough, because the conditions are when or where you can even use your weapons. 1. Comprehensible. Not comprehensive. Two entirely different words.
Nearly 12am and I'm the only one posting to you.
Going back to YouTube. It's at least more interesting than exchanging word definitions...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWkOeK5AmI8 "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3107
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Posted - 2013.04.03 04:38:00 -
[505] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:It's at least more interesting than exchanging word definitions...
That was tangential to the point of my post. (But you hang on to that thin thread of a reason to dodge the point.)
Either way, the conditions of when and where you can use specific weapons have nothing to do with whether or not those areas can be host to competition. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
806
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Posted - 2013.04.03 07:56:00 -
[506] - Quote
Gotta say this thread " Welcome to ThunderdomeGäó" was ineresting from all the discusion brought up... especially since maybe beacuse of it ( or not ) ThunderdomeGäó" never happened: has there been any staged NULL fights between CFC & HBC yet worth mentioning? Its looking like before a single NULL ThunderdomeGäó fight being started what we're going to get is a Jita burns staged in HI SEC again
Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an ex-goon? |
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