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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6836
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Posted - 2013.02.18 08:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP isn't going to consider some dumb RL comparison as a good justification for treating salvaging as looting. If you don't want your wrecks salvaged, get salvage drones and take care of it yourself. If that's too much work, well, sorry, stop asking CCP to hold your hand. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Lovely Dumplings
Lambda Mining
75
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Posted - 2013.02.18 08:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote:Despite what real world salvagers say, that law doesn't work that way. It's covers a few instances but it can be overturned by a many number of reasons like claims new laws and salvage inside territorial waters of which local governments don't want such activities. Maritime laws are some of the oldest laws still in effect anywhere. Some are seriously crazy if you look them up. Also check this out. http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/conven/salvage1989.html
Yeah, i was going with a general overall, on it. My idiot stepbrother ended up getting a lien slapped on his boat, when he ran out of gas and accepted a 3 mile tow to dock. Ended up costing him $6,000 to clear it. Salvage law. I support James 315, and mine according to the-áTHE NEW HALAIMA CODE. Vote James 315, the CSM Rep Highsec needs. www.minerbumping.com |
Solstice Project
Brave Newbies Inc.
2758
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Posted - 2013.02.18 08:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
*lol* OP is just like all the other people who whine about ninja salvagers.
Ignorant, self entitled and incapable of accepting reality beyond his own opinion.
This is soooo retro. xD Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2749
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Posted - 2013.02.18 08:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote:RubyPorto wrote: So learning to make effective use of combat probes is a waste of time? . Please and not learning to scan down WHs, grav/radar/ladar/mag sites, combat ships properly. Their main purpose. Cause that has no use what so ever in Null and WH space.
I'm sorry, what? How does learning to quickly sort through the multitudes of ships signatures generally found in an active missioning system for one ship likely doing a mission not teach you to scan down WHs, Sites, and ships effectively? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Tub Chil
Last Men Standing
28
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Posted - 2013.02.18 08:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
This thread again, how innovative.
Just stop carebearing in motsu
and why do you even want salvage, prices are so low after Noctis was introduced. |
Ken 1138
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
32
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Posted - 2013.02.18 09:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tub Chil wrote:This thread again, how innovative.
Just stop carebearing in motsu
and why do you even want salvage, prices are so low after Noctis was introduced.
Some of us like to horde salvage, i hope to one day make something with it like a toaster or diesel powered, monkey operated, laser guided banana peeler. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2246
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Posted - 2013.02.18 09:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
Andski wrote:you could say those quotes were
salvaged (GîÉGûá_Gûá). YYYYYEEEEAAAAA |
Whitehound
850
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Posted - 2013.02.18 10:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
It is part of the game's design and not the best, frankly.
The destroyed remains of a ship are considered free floating junk just like the asteroids in a belt. What causes the confusion is that a wreck also serves as a container for the loot, with the loot having an owner, and therefore is it often assumed that when something inside a container has an owner then the container itself must have the same owner. It is a common misinterpretation, because it is easily made.
It is however not more than a cloud of junk if you look only close enough. CCP did not want to create two objects per wreck with one being a container holding the loot and the other being the free floating remains.
Perhaps think of it as the wrappings for a present. We all love to rip open the package and not concern us with the packaging, but take it as junk while we are only interested in the content. The fact that the "wrappings" around the loot can be more worth than the loot itself sometimes does not help the situation.
It is however just free floating junk without an owner. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
59
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Posted - 2013.02.18 12:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Ken
- If a ninja comes into your mish, warp out... let them take agro.
You don't even have to warp out anymore. NPC aggro switches, and usually will switch to easier target or the a target who just warped in.
Just fit some salvage drones. Ninja salvagers have to actually fly from wreck to wreck, they can't use tractor beams on wrecks they did not kill. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Its been left that way because ninja salvaging is an interesting and fun gameplay mechanic and one of the only ways that solo missioners will be exposed to the existence of other players in an MMO. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
7668
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote:This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone.
But in the case of the first 2 either PVE or PVP why isn't salvaging by some random/not in fleet person not give them suspect status? If you're bubble camping some null gate and you salvage and loot your PVP kills i can understand that but say killing drones in a site or doing agent missions how come a random person has the right to essentially steal the salvage from you? It's a physical item of some value being taken without your consent. Or am i looking at this all wrong?
What this something overlooked when crimewatch 2.0 was being built?
If you want to stop people salvaging 'your' wrecks, then mission in lo-sec or 0.0 where you can shoot anyone you like. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
577
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Look at this amazing and incredible new thread on a topic never before seen in GD.
Someone feel like looking up one of the many CCP Posts telling the OP he's wrong?
Ruby, dude you look good with that monocle. You look like a real Sir. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Perramas
Decretum Tetrimon
2978
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Posted - 2013.02.18 13:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Its to protect the stupid mission runners who think its only a cormorant, I will teach this guy a lesson! Then the next thing the dummy knows is he is being warp scrambled by a couple of condors and a bunch of cruisers are blowing his multibillion isk ship into space dust.
Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people- Eleanor Roosevelt |
Ptraci
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
1259
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Posted - 2013.02.18 14:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote:This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone.
But in the case of the first 2 either PVE or PVP why isn't salvaging by some random/not in fleet person not give them suspect status? If you're bubble camping some null gate and you salvage and loot your PVP kills i can understand that but say killing drones in a site or doing agent missions how come a random person has the right to essentially steal the salvage from you? It's a physical item of some value being taken without your consent. Or am i looking at this all wrong?
What this something overlooked when crimewatch 2.0 was being built?
You could always take someone else's salvage. CCP has gone on record to say that salvage is fair game for everyone and the first one who salvages it gets it. HTFU and salvage faster. Or go do your missions in a less crowded system. |
Karrl Tian
Exiled Assassins
191
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Posted - 2013.02.18 16:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
Trust me, we're going there. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote: Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players. I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay. It's way more than they can make mining or running missions as a 5 day old character. It's probably more than they'd make running lv2's as well. |
Plaude Pollard
Crimson Cartel
96
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Salvaging wrecks made by other players is no more a crime than jumping into someone's mission and killing the NPCs in front of their eyes. You don't have the legal right to claim anything but the loot that may have survived the explosion as your own. New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of your choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info. |
Ankles McGlashan
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.02.18 20:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
it's completely realistic.
seriously some guys at ITV filmed a scrappy taking a busstop once. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Gordian Knot Holdings
5788
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Posted - 2013.02.18 20:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ankles McGlashan wrote:it's completely realistic.
seriously some guys at ITV filmed a scrappy pikey taking a busstop once.
FTFY
God help the people who buy the Peugeot Onyx if it ever becomes reality, all that stuff that looks like copper, it is, at least according to Top Gear.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and everybody in it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12922
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Posted - 2013.02.18 20:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote:This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone. That's because in the former case, you've earned the right to any loot that might be found in the wreck by killing the NPC, whereas in the latter case, your crimes have made you forfeit any ownership claims to any loot that happens to survive.
Note the key word here: loot. Not salvage. Salvage is intentionally designed to be a free-for-all resource that people who engage in the (mini)profession of salvaging are meant to gather up. It is equally intentionally not designed as a reward for killing NPCs. Salvage exists to the one that creates it, but it is not created until you've run a successful salvager cycle on a wreck. As such, there is no illegal salvaging by very definition any more than it is a illegal to mine an asteroid, nor can it be a crime since it's not illegal.
It is also largely impossible to steal salvage from people by using a salvager module (and I'm guessing that this is what you're referring to here). The only way to steal someone's salvage is blow them up while they're transporting some in their cargo holds, and take it from their smouldering wrecksGǪ but at that point, the salvage has actually turned into loot anyway so no special consideration is given to it.
It was not overlooked in CW2.0 GÇö it was simply never a candidate for inclusion, again much like the mining of asteroids. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2270
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 20:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Thread Title wrote:
Why is Illegal Salvaging not a crime?
Illegal salvaging is a crime. It's illegal, after all.
Thing is, there is no such thing as illegal salvaging in this game, so the point is moot.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Bane Veradun
Black Sun Dawning
0
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Posted - 2013.02.18 21:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
For the same reason that legal salvaging is not a crime. While you only co-opt the darkness for your petty purposes, I was borne of the darkness. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3951
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 21:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote: Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players. I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay. Try salvaging T2 and T3 wrecks and tell me that's not profitable. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front New Creation Collective
191
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Posted - 2013.02.18 21:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote:This is a game mechanic i question often. When you shoot an NPC or player ship it makes a wreck that you can salvage. When you do something stupid and concord hits you with "it's strong pimpin' hand" It makes an abandoned wreck that's fair game for anyone.
But in the case of the first 2 either PVE or PVP why isn't salvaging by some random/not in fleet person not give them suspect status? If you're bubble camping some null gate and you salvage and loot your PVP kills i can understand that but say killing drones in a site or doing agent missions how come a random person has the right to essentially steal the salvage from you? It's a physical item of some value being taken without your consent. Or am i looking at this all wrong?
What this something overlooked when crimewatch 2.0 was being built?
The Revolutionary Front claims full responsibility for this guy's butthurt, much as we claimed ownership of his wreck field. By extension I suppose we may bear some responsibility for this silly thread.
Umm.... Have a nice day!? Join the Revolutionary Front and liberate New Eden from it's stuff.
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Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ken 1138 wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote: Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players. I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay. Try salvaging T2 and T3 wrecks and tell me that's not profitable. Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind? |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
131
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Im quite sure if someone salvages your wreck you are allowed to shoot them. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
270
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Oxandrolone wrote:Im quite sure if someone salvages your wreck you are allowed to shoot them. Yes. Please do. "Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2751
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:46:00 -
[58] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind?
No, but Players do. That's another type of Ninja salvaging. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3953
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:17:00 -
[59] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ken 1138 wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote: Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players. I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay. Try salvaging T2 and T3 wrecks and tell me that's not profitable. Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind? Who said anything about NPCs? Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Karrl Tian
Exiled Assassins
192
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Whim Aqayn wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ken 1138 wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote: Ninja salvaging is hands-down one of the best sources of income for new players. I'll argue to that fact. I'm not talking about 2 people mining the same roid. Seriously now, best sources of income? How much do you expect a 5 day old player in a Probe to make off of salvage? If that's what you're telling new players to do you might as well throw them some isk for the time wasted not learning essential skills and gameplay. Try salvaging T2 and T3 wrecks and tell me that's not profitable. Do NPCs even leave T2/T3 wrecks behind? Who said anything about NPCs?
It's kind of implied that this is a highsec thread as the proposed solution is to have CCP/CONCORD fix your problem for you. |
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