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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2013.02.01 17:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73485
CCP Bro said: "What most people fail to include is the significant production costs involved in a large scale production like the New Eden Open. For this tournament we are building an entirely new set, renting top of the line production equipment, and we are contracting professional sound and video engineers to ensure we deliver the best possible production to our players and fans.
You spent the PLEX money hiring "professional audiovisual engineers" to delivered the low quality video and sound feed u did?(i recall in one of the streams we waited like 10 min before you could get the audio streaming in stereo (L and R channels) , the stream video had to be run in lowest resolution 360p in order to get the least latency possible)? - I can think of amateurs that would do a better job for free.
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BadAssMcKill
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
99
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Posted - 2013.02.01 18:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
I don't get all this hate for Own3d. I've always gotten great quality streams from them Starships were meant to fly~ |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2278
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Posted - 2013.02.01 19:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:I don't get all this hate for Own3d. I've always gotten great quality streams from them From a business perspective, the hate makes sense to me. See, in my experience there are two kinds of internet business owner: there are the legit guys that sign contracts and follow them to the letter. Customer service is always a priority, and mutually beneficial partnerships are created to genuinely grow and strengthen both party's business interests. These are the honest business types... and they are sadly a minority.
Then you get these **** degenerates like the CEO of OwnedTV. Contracts are only honored in-so-much as they can technically be enforced. If you don't have verification enforcement clauses with them on every little thing they will find a loophole and **** you on a contract. In this case, the CEO saw the ship was going down in July at the LATEST. That did not effect business as usual. They still created contracts... promised people their due payments... etc... However, it's my contention that the decision was made in July that OwnedTV would no longer honor their financial obligations. Instead, the pay is increased for the executives to drain every last drop of capital from the company. In the meantime, OwnedTV pions are oblivious and continuing to work thinking they have a job. Partners continue to fulfill their obligations and produce content or whatever for OwnedTV thinking they are going to be compensated. All that work and effort is put forth while OwnedTV promises it's a glitch in the payment system or some other nonsense, when OwnedTV's executives know damn well they aren't going to pay for it. In bankruptcy, those obligations are nullified as the company's few remaining assets are liquidated and only the preferred AAA shareholders (again, the executives only) are compensated. People holding non-preferred securities, creditors, employees, and partners are left holding the bag. It's a scam. ...and it's technically legal.
So yah welcome to internet business: I loath people like the executives at OwnedTV. They are the lowest form of scum around. They knew this was coming and they lied to and screwed over a LOT of people while the ship was sinking.
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raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2013.02.01 19:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Gogela said: "From a business perspective, the hate makes sense to me."
- I agree, and i would like to tell CCP about this old saying they got where i come from, it goes like this: " Money down before panty down. No finance, no romance." |
molly666trillions
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.02.02 00:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
raven666wings said: " Money down before panty down. No finance, no romance."
This one is also popular: "Dont write checks with your mouth that your ass can't cash." |
Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2013.02.02 04:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gogela wrote:In bankruptcy, those obligations are nullified as the company's few remaining assets are liquidated and only the preferred AAA shareholders (again, the executives only) are compensated. People holding non-preferred securities, creditors, employees, and partners are left holding the bag. It's a scam. ...and it's technically legal. Laws are different depending on the country, but in the USA the employees go to the front of the line when collecting in a bankruptcy. Ahead of the shareholders, ahead of the preferred creditors, and ahead of other investors. Other than that I agree with everything else you said.
Getting fleeced by a sleazebag like the Pwn3d CEO doesn't say much for CCP's business acumen, does it? |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2282
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Posted - 2013.02.02 06:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Swidgen wrote:Gogela wrote:In bankruptcy, those obligations are nullified as the company's few remaining assets are liquidated and only the preferred AAA shareholders (again, the executives only) are compensated. People holding non-preferred securities, creditors, employees, and partners are left holding the bag. It's a scam. ...and it's technically legal. Laws are different depending on the country, but in the USA the employees go to the front of the line when collecting in a bankruptcy. Ahead of the shareholders, ahead of the preferred creditors, and ahead of other investors. Other than that I agree with everything else you said. Getting fleeced by a sleazebag like the Pwn3d CEO doesn't say much for CCP's business acumen, does it? That's not true. It's actually bondholders first (depending on the wording of those contracts). Pensions and employee pay are now treated as normal debt... employees would be payed after preferred stock holders (again depending on wording of the issue) and before creditors. Pensions are actually paid after creditors and virtually all other obligations if you can believe it, but now pensions are even written off in bankruptcy. So! If a company goes bankrupt the pension obligations are null. IF the company can make it through bankruptcy and keep operating, the debts and pensions will never be paid back... they are gone, but in that instance the overdue pay to employees must be paid before the bankruptcy procedure can be called "complete". If the company just goes out of business though no, while the employees SHOULD be paid they seldom are.
For CCP, 10k isn't a big deal.
Edit: Just went to double check because it's been I while since I did this stuff: So preferred stock holders will often be paid even before bondholders, but not always. Employee pay is actually put in the same category as other creditor debt, and believe it of frickin' not, can be written off in the bankruptcy (I didn't know that until just now). That's up to the judge and the lawyers. However, bondholders and preferred stock holders get paid before ANYBODY. The stockholders w/ voting rights, the judge, and the lawyers fight it out for the rest and what happens next.
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Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
99
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Posted - 2013.02.02 08:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Swidgen wrote:Gogela wrote:In bankruptcy, those obligations are nullified as the company's few remaining assets are liquidated and only the preferred AAA shareholders (again, the executives only) are compensated. People holding non-preferred securities, creditors, employees, and partners are left holding the bag. It's a scam. ...and it's technically legal. Laws are different depending on the country, but in the USA the employees go to the front of the line when collecting in a bankruptcy. Ahead of the shareholders, ahead of the preferred creditors, and ahead of other investors. Other than that I agree with everything else you said. Getting fleeced by a sleazebag like the Pwn3d CEO doesn't say much for CCP's business acumen, does it? That's not true. It's actually bondholders first (depending on the wording of those contracts). Pensions and employee pay are now treated as normal debt... employees would be payed after preferred stock holders (again depending on wording of the issue) and before creditors. Pensions are actually paid after creditors and virtually all other obligations if you can believe it, but now pensions are even written off in bankruptcy. So! If a company goes bankrupt the pension obligations are null. IF the company can make it through bankruptcy and keep operating, the debts and pensions will never be paid back... they are gone, but in that instance the overdue pay to employees must be paid before the bankruptcy procedure can be called "complete". If the company just goes out of business though no, while the employees SHOULD be paid they seldom are. For CCP, 10k isn't a big deal. Edit: Just went to double check because it's been I while since I did this stuff: So preferred stock holders will often be paid even before bondholders, but not always. Employee pay is actually put in the same category as other creditor debt, and believe it of frickin' not, can be written off in the bankruptcy (I didn't know that until just now). That's up to the judge and the lawyers. However, bondholders and preferred stock holders get paid before ANYBODY. The stockholders w/ voting rights, the judge, and the lawyers fight it out for the rest and what happens next.
In the UK the first person to be paid is the taxman |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
719
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 10:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:LOL, wow, the prizes for a boring, unwatched, worthless contest got lost in the shuffle...Who'd a thunk... I watched it. therefore by definition it cannot have been "unwatched". The world does not revolve around you. The world rolls over you. this post deserves a like ffs.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
729
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 10:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gogela please stfu, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Own3d Entertainment GmbH is an Austrian GmbH and just about every single piece of "information" you posted does either not apply or is factually wrong.
Heck, we don't even know if own3d has actually filed for bankruptcy (they sure don't show up in the url=http://www.edikte.justiz.gv.at/edikte/edikthome.nsf/]official registry[/url] - "Insolvenzdatei" - but their filing might not yet have been processed yet) or if they are still trying to reach a settlement with their various creditors.
The only important points if own3d owes you money are right now:
* a debt settlement would have to be completely unanimous.
* keep your eyes peeled on the site I linked above, if own3d files for bankruptcy you need to register your claims at the court handling the case (form at Linkage) in order to get your share of the payout.
* you might be able to sue own3d management for "Krida" (harming the creditors' interests), inability to pay their bills for several months while continuing to run up new obligations looks very fishy. The burden of proof for bringing criminal charges is pretty high (negligently delaying filing for bankrupt or excessive taking on of new debts alone is not sufficient, wanton/gross negligence must be shown) but civil charges can be pressed more easily. (This is your chance to break the GmbH's liability limitation and go for its management's coffers.) Talk to your lawyer.
If own3d doesn't owe you money, why do you care? I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
176
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Posted - 2013.02.02 12:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Not to be a **** to CCP or anything but it's pretty pathetic that prizes still haven't been paid out.
I'm guessing CCP will be eating the 10k own3d is reneging on, so good for you but really this should've been sorted months ago. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2142
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Posted - 2013.02.02 14:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Not to be a **** to CCP or anything but it's pretty pathetic that prizes still haven't been paid out.
I'm guessing CCP will be eating the 10k own3d is reneging on, so good for you but really this should've been sorted months ago.
You may have missed the news article explaining that Own3d owes a lot of people money but the explanation is likely in the OP. Hope that helps. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.02.02 16:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You may have missed the news article explaining that Own3d owes a lot of people money but the explanation is likely in the OP. Hope that helps.
This is no excuse to **** your player partners over the same way the others did to you. If anything, giving this kind of excuses and not keeping up to your agreement with the players just makes you as good as them. I would not be surprised if you knew all the way from the beggining this 0wn3d jerkoff had the company in imminent bankrupcy and would not keep up to any agreement and you just used the promiss of 10k USD tournament reward as a means to lure PPL into sinking PLEX for your profit. Would defenetely make a better image out of yourselves now if you stopped trying to feed ppl garbage instead of paying up the reward they deserve. |
raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.02.02 16:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
You know what CCP, for only 50 PLEX i could send a Brutor brother to the 0wn3d CEO's crib to pull his nails out with a pair of pliers and make sure he ate his next meal thru a straw, but like i said before "Money down before panty down". You aint dealing with CCP Broski here. |
molly666trillions
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.02.02 16:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:You know what CCP, for only 50 PLEX i could send a Brutor brother to the 0wn3d CEO's crib to pull his nails out with a pair of pliers and make sure he ate his next meal thru a straw
I could put him out of his misery for less than that, though facing amateurs is not really my cup of tea. |
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
99
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Posted - 2013.02.02 18:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
You may have missed the news article explaining that Own3d owes a lot of people money but the explanation is likely in the OP. Hope that helps.
This is no excuse to **** your player partners over the same way the others did to you. If anything, giving this kind of excuses and not keeping up to your agreement with the players just makes you as good as them. I would not be surprised if you knew all the way from the beggining this 0wn3d jerkoff had the company in imminent bankrupcy and would not keep up to any agreement and you just used the promiss of 10k USD tournament reward as a means to lure PPL into sinking PLEX for your profit. Would defenetely make a better image out of yourselves now if you stopped trying to feed ppl garbage instead of paying up the reward they deserve.
This seems unfair and rather harsh towards ccp. To their credit they organised a great tournament and put a lot of effort into something they didn't really have to do. Agreed it was to have been a form of advertising for them, but they could have done that in other ways for the time, trouble and expense it cost them.
That said, it would also have been nice, if ccp had any inkling of what was happening at own, if they'd come forward and said so before it became a more generally known issue; but they may not have known if they were being given the run around by own.
Finally, ccp have acknowledged the matter and said they're hoping to announce a resolution for their players left in the lurch - which ultimately is all any of us could hope for.
So whilst ccp might have conducted themselves a little better IF one of the big assumptions is true, I feel that they're stepping into the breach in a very conscientious way and thank them for doing so. |
raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 19:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nikuno wrote: not sure what but sounds a lot like a dumbness certificate and a lot of fear of being ripped off completely in CCP's ultimate scam
Spit it out CCP the players want the money prize you promised and dont care where u get it from |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
176
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Posted - 2013.02.03 22:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Not to be a **** to CCP or anything but it's pretty pathetic that prizes still haven't been paid out.
I'm guessing CCP will be eating the 10k own3d is reneging on, so good for you but really this should've been sorted months ago. You may have missed the news article explaining that Own3d owes a lot of people money but the explanation is likely in the OP. Hope that helps.
I actually mentioned in the post you quoted that own3d is reneging on the 10k, you should probably read what you quote and reply to
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2282
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 22:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Gogela please stfu, you have no idea what you are talking about. Own3d Entertainment GmbH is an Austrian GmbH and just about every single piece of "information" you posted does either not apply or is factually wrong. Heck, we don't even know if own3d has actually filed for bankruptcy (they sure don't show up in the url=http://www.edikte.justiz.gv.at/edikte/edikthome.nsf/]official registry[/url] - "Insolvenzdatei" - but their filing might not yet have been processed yet) or if they are still trying to reach a settlement with their various creditors. The only important points if own3d owes you money are right now: * a debt settlement would have to be completely unanimous. * keep your eyes peeled on the site I linked above, if own3d files for bankruptcy you need to register your claims at the court handling the case (form at Linkage) in order to get your share of the payout. * you might be able to sue own3d management for "Krida" (harming the creditors' interests), inability to pay their bills for several months while continuing to run up new obligations looks very fishy. The burden of proof for bringing criminal charges is pretty high (negligently delaying filing for bankrupt or excessive taking on of new debts alone is not sufficient, wanton/gross negligence must be shown) but civil charges can be pressed more easily. (This is your chance to break the GmbH's liability limitation and go for its management's coffers.) Talk to your lawyer. If own3d doesn't owe you money, why do you care? Everything I said applies to US companies... I do know what I'm talking about. You didn't dispute a single point. If they are shutting down their company, what do you think is going to happen? They just shut down and it all goes away? Sorry business pro, it doesn't work like that. If their outstanding debts are significant, they of course have to file for bankruptcy... or "liquidation" or whatever the Aussies call it. Anything I wrote that was "wrong" was corrected in the edit. No need to be a ****.
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
839
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Posted - 2013.02.04 02:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
How many wings does your raven have?
Also did you even win anything? "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3029
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Posted - 2013.02.04 02:58:00 -
[51] - Quote
No kangaroos in Austria, Gogela. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2135
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 03:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
This is what it boils down to:
People will remember that CCP had a tourney that promised cash prizes and didn't pay up.
No excuses, reasoning or justification will change that perception. It is in CCPs best interest to get the prizes payed out if they don't want a whole pile of negative media and a distinct lack of contestants for the next one.
Mr Epeen -ávOv |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
156
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 06:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Nikuno wrote: not sure what but sounds a lot like a dumbness certificate and a lot of fear of being ripped off completely in CCP's ultimate scam I am an angry immature child, who refuses to understand the facts, and why the slight delay is happening.
I'm glad to see that you understand the real problem at hand. |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
159
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 07:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:How many wings does your raven have? Also did you even win anything?
666 wings. |
Ascendic
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
100
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Posted - 2013.02.04 08:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
And this is why you never should have partnered with 0wn3d in the first place.
GG CCP you've been 0wn3d. |
raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.02.04 13:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
How many wings does my raven have?? It sure has enough wings to fly away when it sees that kind of good friends coming along bro! :D lol
Oh hai Gogela, this is my way of telling you that i am also a good legal business analyst: "STFU Gogela u dont know what ur talking about! There are no kangoroos in Austria."
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Not to be a **** to CCP or anything but it's pretty pathetic that prizes still haven't been paid out.
I'm guessing CCP will be eating the 10k own3d is reneging on, so good for you but really this should've been sorted months ago.
Mr Epeen wrote:This is what it boils down to: People will remember that CCP had a tourney that promised cash prizes and didn't pay up. No excuses, reasoning or justification will change that perception. It is in CCPs best interest to get the prizes payed out if they don't want a whole pile of negative media and a distinct lack of contestants for the next one. Mr Epeen
Ascendic wrote:And this is why you never should have partnered with 0wn3d in the first place.
GG CCP you've been 0wn3d.
Getting screwed over by bankrupt companies, promising players money and then crying out crocodile tears as excuse to not pay up. Shameful bro |
raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.02.04 14:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
but but but... 0wn3d did not pay us :'( we're so naive what we gonna do now :'( excuse us while we delay this for a bit and cry guys :'( bohohoho
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raven666wings
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.02.04 14:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
2013.02.04 14:36:37Player Donation-10.000,00 ISK[r] raven666wings deposited cash into C C P's account |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
2153
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Posted - 2013.02.04 18:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Pretty glad I saw this as a scam when it was originally announced.
Note I'm not saying it was a scam. I'm saying that's how I saw it.
Now that it's all played out, charging PLEX for an entry fee to a contest you weren't even sponsoring probably doesn't seem so smart anymore, does it?
Bottom line: PLEX were sold to valuable customers under false pretenses.
And now watch as a multimillion dollar company flounders and grovels over a paltry 10k prize.
Wouldn't the 10k worth of good press for honoring your agreement to your customers be worth just paying this out and being done with it?
Has CCP learned anything at all from this? Like maybe it's a bad idea to tie the sale and remittance of PLEX to a promotional event sponsored by an entirely separate company?
Oops. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2283
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 18:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:No kangaroos in Austria, Gogela. The more you know .-+:*-¿-¿*:-+..-+:*
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