Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Morela
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 15:00:00 -
[1]
With CCP putting outposts and the obvious direction that the game mechanics are going in. It seems that having an offical alliance is almost required for the more advanced parts of claiming space.
Now with PVP becoming more and more the way of life in eve, what does everyone thing the chances are that we'll see widespread deployment of these things?
Since most alliances are huge targets, and when an alliance is devoting most of there time and energy into defending the basic right to exist. How will they find the time and ISK to actually start seeing more then 4-5 systems claimed and seeing outposts dot the eve landscape?
Just sorta trying to open a frank (and hopefully) flame free discussion about how practical the current game mechanics are in relation to the "claim your space" things they're putting into the game.
:)
|
Takrolimus
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 15:01:00 -
[2]
well since you get 3 free ones with better services in most 0.0 regions, I dont think many will bother just yet.
|
Recluse Viramor
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 15:02:00 -
[3]
I think we'll see a consolidation of regions claimed, but thats just pure speculation, we'll have to wait and see.
|
Joshua Foiritain
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 15:04:00 -
[4]
Id like to seee the stats of these things first.
------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Naverin
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 15:07:00 -
[5]
I forsee a few of them going up. Possibly a refinery outpost a jump away from a conquerable Factory Station in the outter rings of 0.0. outside of that.. im not really sure of how widespread these things will be.
|
Hans Roaming
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 15:16:00 -
[6]
An outpost with it's attendant POS although a big target allows an alliance to attain local superiority when it comes to logistics than the attacking entities. Also some 0.0 regions don't have stations and even with POS basing out there without station services can be hard.
So I think there will be quite a few.
WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa. WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK |
Tharrn
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 15:31:00 -
[7]
It *might* finally put an end to those silly claims of whole regions that are largely unpopulated, wasted space, opening room for more people in 0.0 (which everyone claims to want anyways), more politics and more conflict.
|
Dracorimus
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 15:42:00 -
[8]
It should certainly make the game more interesting -
http://www.killboard.net/?p=pilot&n=Dracorimus |
IamBen
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 16:01:00 -
[9]
depending on the requirements I think this could be a great oppurtunity for people to populate 0.0 If citizens of EVE could have based that was not easily taken and had atleast a factory and refinery, that would be incredible. It really depends how big of a force you need to maintain an outpost.
|
Imbrogli0
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 16:03:00 -
[10]
My 2 isk:
With the way the NWO will pan out, I think the plan is to push the alliences to "claim" smaller amounts of space. 6-7 Systems is all any Allinece really needs. If the actual "choke" points are now pushed back into 0.0 this will decrease the size a Allinece will want to defend. Now in claiming these systems, you now have a much easier time defending it. In doing this the Outposts become a much more viable option.
I think that is the way CCP is pushing it....But who knows
|
|
Zdragva
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 16:13:00 -
[11]
Yeah this patch could just provide more 'toys' for whoever is already out there to play with. Not much difference just a bigger POS and an opportunity for a bit more cash.
But its possible that this could be the start of actually holdable small areas, with working stations owned by players in systems of there choice. This is what Exodus hinted at though, so expect what arrives and nothing more :p
|
M'Ar Duk
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 16:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Imbrogli0 My 2 isk: *snip* 6-7 Systems is all any Allinece really needs. *snip*
/me tries to picture a 1000+ member alliance working in 6-7 systems, and only those 6-7 systems. All I see is 30+ people in a system trying to mine the same semi-decent roid, 30+ people bumping into each other ratting in the same system... Unless ofc the entire alliance operates as a combine and only allows certain corps to rat/mine during certain parts of the day, or unless your alliance's sole purpose is to aggro and you don't mine/rat anyway.
That being said, yeah, it would be super-easy to defend 6 systems right next to each other with an entire alliance.
-------------------- [20:08:23] CapNMurphi > Who the hell is M'Ar Duk? [20:08:59] StormyWaters2021 > The sun god, who dwells inside me. [20:09:27] CapNMurphi > In front or in back? |
Dianabolic
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 16:52:00 -
[13]
M'ar Duck - there are already thousands of people in alliances, yet 99% of their space goes unused. It's always the same systems, same people and lots of Klingons.
Forcing them to claim what they use rather than what they can is a good thing, a 1k alliance can easily live in a constellation, particularly considering when a) u can divide any alliance figure by (at least) 3 to get number of reg'd accounts and, on average, divide that number by 2 to get actual players.
Divide again by 2 or 3 to get active players on a weekly basis.
|
Helmut 314
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 18:54:00 -
[14]
Concentrating your population and industry in 0.0 only makes sense really. Many of the PQS are in strategically bad positions right now, Outposts can remedy that.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
Lucian Alucard
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 19:17:00 -
[15]
Well the promblem most alliances have is they are confined to 3 conquerables and the old guys like FA and SA have (or had) 1 reigon with npc stations and 1-2 with conquerables.
Now in places like Deklein you have 3 conquerables and you really only end up using 5-6 systems for mining,chaining and fighting. When I was in CoD and NSA we all lived out of 3J and Czd and rarely ever went to VFK (i.e. Notfers shlong) which had the cloning facility.
I think you will start seeing more of these dinky alliances going into a reigon and seting up shop in a consetalltion. This will require these big alliances to go in and weed them out to claim their space. The 1k player to reigon ratio has been so horridly truthful its not funny. Christ look at what JQA did with 1 5-6 system constellation. They made a butt load of isk and were able to give GImp a run for its money and this was at Votf/Supremacy/R-K's height of power. And everyone who fought that war will agree with me and I wasn't even their.
As far as political territory goes after this patch Venal,Fountain,Geminate and the old CA systems will be contended for with maniacal fervor. And frankly I hope so since this summer is starting to disappoint me. I think we need a system that makes it more fesible for more GNW style wars. But thats just me wishing fo Napoleanic style warfare.
Undisputed Lord Of The Forums!!! (\_/) (O.o) (> <) Pleas help me Kill the bunny so I can dominate the world |
SengH
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 21:01:00 -
[16]
Wewt just cleared all my tickets for now... i have time to type something long up
Personally heres what I see happening. The current major alliances that claim multiple regions, will begin to take in smaller corps that want to have access to 0.0 and move them into existing systems with PCSes in them. Any new players thinking to make a quick initial dash into 0.0 will be fail due to the lack of an existing presence in the region and the effort it would take to build an outpost w/o PCSes already in the region. Of course this prediction excludes certain unclaimed border 0.0 zones that are already occupied by alliances such as COE.
The initial outposts will be refinery outposts that pop up in the systems that have PCS + rare ores in the same system. Factories and a refinery one jump over or even in the same system combined with freighters, will lay the foundation for growth in the region and fund the expansion of other outposts. However growth would be limited to those systems with high end ores that would be profitable. These will be quickly occupied by their current resident alliances.
The alliances will quickly then hit a barrier where the cost of hauling in ICE from outside becomes prohibitive and that will probably be another location where outposts and POSes spring up.
This however should change when COSMOS is introduced to 0.0 regions. When claiming the COSMOS constellations, alliances will have to evaluate what type of Outposts is most viable to the constellations to make best use of their benifits. Giving them an advantage over their enemies.
This leaves some niches to fill. *Ice mining and hauling *Low end mining and hauling *Building and researching
but besides all this, any corp entering the protection or joining a starting alliance must realize the following.
*you are there on the grace of your alliance you do not have the right to demand other people to do things for you frequently the most tension ive seen is from the industrialists demanding that the PVPers do something for them. They let you in, they can kick you out. *if you help others out in 0.0 most of the time they will help you out in return. be nice
** oops tickets just came in gotta go back to work **
|
Helmut 314
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 21:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: SengH Wewt just cleared all my tickets for now... i have time to type something long up
Personally heres what I see happening. The current major alliances that claim multiple regions, will begin to take in smaller corps that want to have access to 0.0 and move them into existing systems with PCSes in them. Any new players thinking to make a quick initial dash into 0.0 will be fail due to the lack of an existing presence in the region and the effort it would take to build an outpost w/o PCSes already in the region. Of course this prediction excludes certain unclaimed border 0.0 zones that are already occupied by alliances such as COE.
The initial outposts will be refinery outposts that pop up in the systems that have PCS + rare ores in the same system. Factories and a refinery one jump over or even in the same system combined with freighters, will lay the foundation for growth in the region and fund the expansion of other outposts. However growth would be limited to those systems with high end ores that would be profitable. These will be quickly occupied by their current resident alliances.
The alliances will quickly then hit a barrier where the cost of hauling in ICE from outside becomes prohibitive and that will probably be another location where outposts and POSes spring up.
This however should change when COSMOS is introduced to 0.0 regions. When claiming the COSMOS constellations, alliances will have to evaluate what type of Outposts is most viable to the constellations to make best use of their benifits. Giving them an advantage over their enemies.
This leaves some niches to fill. *Ice mining and hauling *Low end mining and hauling *Building and researching
but besides all this, any corp entering the protection or joining a starting alliance must realize the following.
*you are there on the grace of your alliance you do not have the right to demand other people to do things for you frequently the most tension ive seen is from the industrialists demanding that the PVPers do something for them. They let you in, they can kick you out. *if you help others out in 0.0 most of the time they will help you out in return. be nice
** oops tickets just came in gotta go back to work **
Isnt this what 5ive are doing with their "pet corps" *cough* mining slaves *cough* ?
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
Two Minds
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 21:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Helmut 314
Originally by: SengH Wewt just cleared all my tickets for now... i have time to type something long up
Personally heres what I see happening. The current major alliances that claim multiple regions, will begin to take in smaller corps that want to have access to 0.0 and move them into existing systems with PCSes in them. Any new players thinking to make a quick initial dash into 0.0 will be fail due to the lack of an existing presence in the region and the effort it would take to build an outpost w/o PCSes already in the region. Of course this prediction excludes certain unclaimed border 0.0 zones that are already occupied by alliances such as COE.
The initial outposts will be refinery outposts that pop up in the systems that have PCS + rare ores in the same system. Factories and a refinery one jump over or even in the same system combined with freighters, will lay the foundation for growth in the region and fund the expansion of other outposts. However growth would be limited to those systems with high end ores that would be profitable. These will be quickly occupied by their current resident alliances.
The alliances will quickly then hit a barrier where the cost of hauling in ICE from outside becomes prohibitive and that will probably be another location where outposts and POSes spring up.
This however should change when COSMOS is introduced to 0.0 regions. When claiming the COSMOS constellations, alliances will have to evaluate what type of Outposts is most viable to the constellations to make best use of their benifits. Giving them an advantage over their enemies.
This leaves some niches to fill. *Ice mining and hauling *Low end mining and hauling *Building and researching
but besides all this, any corp entering the protection or joining a starting alliance must realize the following.
*you are there on the grace of your alliance you do not have the right to demand other people to do things for you frequently the most tension ive seen is from the industrialists demanding that the PVPers do something for them. They let you in, they can kick you out. *if you help others out in 0.0 most of the time they will help you out in return. be nice
** oops tickets just came in gotta go back to work **
Isnt this what 5ive are doing with their "pet corps" *cough* mining slaves *cough* ?
Where do the hell do you get this crap from? The corps under ATUk are making crap loads of isk.
|
Helmut 314
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 21:35:00 -
[19]
Of course they are. Minus the refining fees naturally.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
Razor Jaxx
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 22:34:00 -
[20]
I'd speculate the chances are fair to see a number of outposts being deployed, especially in rich, remote and well-protected 0.0 regions.
I'm not really surprised that Xelas chose to split from PA and set up shop in Tenal a few weeks before the outposts are due out, for instance. Other regions ripe for outposts? Feythabolis, Impass (ASCN), Cache (RA) and Branch (PA), as well as some remote parts of Querious (FIX).
|
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2005.06.30 23:29:00 -
[21]
The reason that 0.0 alliances claim entire regions instead of a simple Constellation is that the number of systems that are *usefull* is so limited its pathetic. The entire Curse region may have 3 systems that are usefull in the sense that they have decent NPCs. Same goes for our 'backyards'. The other constellations are not worth claiming.
And tbfh, thats the problem.
/Elve
|
Karazaan
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 00:28:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Karazaan on 01/07/2005 00:32:39
Originally by: Morela
With CCP putting outposts and the obvious direction that the game mechanics are going in. It seems that having an offical alliance is almost required for the more advanced parts of claiming space.
I think that from day one, they wanted to eliminate the npc factor completely. From the market (as it is almost already) to the missions (that might be given by the corp themselves, hauling (possible since day 1) and killing (contracts on the way?)). Every corps have stuff to move and peoples they want dead! They can give theses 'Missions' only inside the corp or to anybody if they wish too. More potential than save 20 dansel in distress in a week.
Now the whining: "We have nothing to do..." paved way to more and more missions but in fact they were supposed to be given by players and corps.
So anyhow, on sisi you can see that now alliances are perfectly equals to npc faction in the Sovereignty filter on the map. That's a BIG clue if you ask me. I sure hope alliances start to eat npc faction territory real soon, that will be way more interesting. And the RolePlay will be so much more real than just Amarr kill Minmatar because they used too. It's not enough personnal
Quote:
Now with PVP becoming more and more the way of life in eve, what does everyone thing the chances are that we'll see widespread deployment of these things?
Pvp is a way of life of thoses in 0.0 right now, just because they others left. Not because it's the only way of life. If there is more and more people willing to help each other (even if they don't know each other) against a common foe (like a -10 lone pirate), then guess who is going to be in trouble? Careness is not out the window even after many millenia of senseless killing on earth. Some people everywhere always seem to want to help other for no apparent reasons. But you need a lot of people in one place to see thoses that do that do their magic...
Quote:
Since most alliances are huge targets, and when an alliance is devoting most of there time and energy into defending the basic right to exist. How will they find the time and ISK to actually start seeing more then 4-5 systems claimed and seeing outposts dot the eve landscape?
Well, maybe they are too big for their own good. Smaller alliances controlling some systems will be way better for everything than large one controlling 3 regions (or attempting to). Having to deal with neibourgs and having a lot more of them will surely help to have a more real political landscape. And yes, more neibourgs will mean more conflicts and tresspassers, but that's a good thing, unless they all gang up on you at the same time...
I guess the stuff coming from the Cosmos special thing will be rarer than tech 2 bpo so they will be in such great demand that a lot of killing will result from the best. Logistic (contrary to anarchy) will be needed to make good use of theses new ressources) so more people will be involved to 'build' something. Now if they put enough of theses unique thing, we will be able to pick the one we prefer and specialize in it. While all the pvp will go on around us. But no more mindless killing any names that is not friendly like right now.
It's not very productive in long term, it's like the lions killing everything in the field because they are the stronger, but having nothing to eat after 2 generations. Not usefull for them or everyone else.
[Edit:Mostly typos..] |
Nitehawk
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 00:33:00 -
[23]
phew...all excellent speculation on what will happen..and quite refreshing reading 2 pages of posts with little to NO flame!!...good Post M! :p
|
Excentrica Gallumbits
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 01:00:00 -
[24]
Well, all this does not change the real problem in Eve: There is no upper limit on the size of the entities. While now a 200 pilot alliance may be able to control a system there is nothing which would stop da łber-pvp-alliance with 5000 PvP-players from running through the universe with their 50 dreadnaughts and 2000 ship fleets blowing away one POS per day and a Station per week.
You can be sure this will start as soon as there are dreadnaughts able to siege POS and PCS. A 200 player alliance with maybe 40 players online at once can not assault a 2000 pilot fleet, not even from inside a POS.
No, I don't have a problem with a 2000 fleet taking out a 40 fleet. But I have a problem that those ultra-fleets are fast-moving, non-local and non-predictable. Even with the NWO there is nothing which forces the 2000 fleet to have a stronghold on their own, their own resources and so on. They can blob out of nowhere, destroy one superstructure and procedd and the only tactics is good old St.Florian: "dear St.Florian, please pass along and burn other houses".
I demand an aggressor should be required to "fuel" his aggression. So either they are forced to settle or there are powerfull marketing options to block them from trading with their victims.
Quote: Excentrica Gallumbits, the triple breasted \/\/|-|0r3 from Eroticon VI - the best bang since the big one...
-- Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
|
Karazaan
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 01:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Excentrica Gallumbits Well, all this does not change the real problem in Eve: There is no upper limit on the size of the entities. While now a 200 pilot alliance may be able to control a system there is nothing which would stop da łber-pvp-alliance with 5000 PvP-players from running through the universe with their 50 dreadnaughts and 2000 ship fleets blowing away one POS per day and a Station per week.
Don't you think that if such a 5000 pvp alliance where in existance, they would not already control all 0.0 (just with 23/7 massive presence in all the chokepoints?) Maybe logistic would be their first problem, 5000 peoples agreeing to a goal, you need war for that usually. Second secret weapons against that, Lag. Too many people, lots of incapacitated players...
Quote:
You can be sure this will start as soon as there are dreadnaughts able to siege POS and PCS. A 200 player alliance with maybe 40 players online at once can not assault a 2000 pilot fleet, not even from inside a POS.
Maybe the new police force for territorial control on top of 'gate control' whatever that mean will help?
Also, if such a threat were to form itself, we would see everyone else threatened stick together to take it down... It always happen in movie!
Quote:
No, I don't have a problem with a 2000 fleet taking out a 40 fleet. But I have a problem that those ultra-fleets are fast-moving, non-local and non-predictable. Even with the NWO there is nothing which forces the 2000 fleet to have a stronghold on their own, their own resources and so on. They can blob out of nowhere, destroy one superstructure and procedd and the only tactics is good old St.Florian: "dear St.Florian, please pass along and burn other houses".
Remember that Dreads will have a HUGE weakness!
And yes, the fast-moving non local is the instant bm problem, ccp might as well give us teleportation from Yulai to anywhere we choose, at the point we are now... Oh no! they will! Fast! scrambled!! Kill that scout before he open the cyno field for all the big mess! Fast kill him!!!
It will be even harder for stealty lone explorer to move alone un-bothered since there will be no way to know if he has the dreadful module (god I'm funny) that can open the gateway. Not knowing mean assuming the worst for thoses carefull, so dead, he is.
Quote:
I demand an aggressor should be required to "fuel" his aggression. So either they are forced to settle or there are powerfull marketing options to block them from trading with their victims.
I don't like fuelling to be able to do something (except production to set a base cost) but it might be something to develop more, what did you have in mind? |
agent99
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 04:11:00 -
[26]
Personally, I have been a part of a few alliances and generally they all try to claim too much space. I mean, a 500 person alliance controlling a few regions is just ridiculous.
I myself am hoping that outposts and the impending exodus to 0.0 will make alliances accountable, and bring them back to the point where they can adequately defend their territory. Otherwise, the NWO is kinda useless..
We have the cash, the resolve and the organisation to build an outpost immediately, however an alliance contending our right to exist in the edges of their 'claimed' space is makeing it difficult. Mind you, it's 15 jumps or so from what I would call 'their' space and as such they can go to hell.
I'm hoping this siutation replicates itself around the universe and allows the NWO to fully work.
Just my 2isk worth.
|
Nonpareil
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 04:19:00 -
[27]
Whatever happens, carebears will die.
|
Pallas Athene
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 05:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nonpareil Whatever happens, carebears will die.
Start mining then honey
N.A.G.A Website I make you a Prince - promise |
Pallas Athene
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 06:29:00 -
[29]
Since IŠm not an alliance member and donŠt have insight into alliance politics I might be wrong. What I do know though is how the human mind works in most cases.
It doesnŠt matter how much space an alliance really needs or how many regions they can hold - what they want to call their own is what really matters.
ThereŠs no question if, but when an alliance is going to build their 1st outpost. I pretty much doubt that the 1st priority of such an outpost would be to support industrial services . Therefore it will be built for security reasons in a location suitable to defend important routes into, and out of alliance space.
The presence of an outpost isnŠt a good enough reason for any alliance to claim only space the game mechanics grants them . DonŠt expect any of them to move into a single constellation by the time their outpost is ready ,if they allready claim one or more regions.
Alliances will keep on building military outposts untill the space they allready "claimed" is secured.
This is a financial trap of course and from my point of view it has the potential to become a huge controversy within alliance ranks . Afer all, an outpost isnŠt actually cheap to set up and would cut deep into alliance finances.
N.A.G.A Website I make you a Prince - promise |
BOldMan
|
Posted - 2005.07.01 06:42:00 -
[30]
dont forget bm removal effects...
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |