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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1035
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Posted - 2013.01.19 23:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been re-reading the CSM minutes and just came across an interesting line, this:
Quote:Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility
From my experience, that was my impression. Most people I meet in game are not a part of big organziations, and many belong to one-man corps much as mine.
Also, from my personal experience, the activites we as a collective engage into, have been largely abandoned since Apocrypha (which granted WH space, likely the best thing that ever happened to solo players in EVE).
And as a result, people like me, like us, don't last long. I owe to my insane stubborness that I still worry myself with EVE although I am playing another game. You can notch that to EVE's uniqueness and its insane potential too.
Last year, i forum-warriored to oppose how the CSM was largely composed of nullsec representatives albeit they're a tiny minority of players. CSM 7 has improved vastly on that regard, independently of whatever I did.
Now it comes as a truth that solo players are the majority in EVE, and yet CCP doesn't even engages them at no level. There are no CSM representatives who play solo (obviously, lone guys can't get thousands of votes, else they wouldn't be lone guys). CCP Seagull, the just-appointed Senior Producer, is looking for ways to engage the solo players as a part of the "next decade" development.
You guess what? I've taken that seriously. I have written a post in the appropiate thread, but that's not enough. One single voice can either be wrong, or be ignored.
So here's the point of this thread: go to this thread and tell CCP Seagull why, how, you play solo. Why, how, should CCP deal with our needs so we can keep playing this game -and paying CCP- like forever. I think i summarized a couple of key points, but surely there's more to it.
TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.
CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
2715
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Posted - 2013.01.19 23:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP doesn't only listen to the people who get 10,000 votes from their alliance bloc. You dramatically overestimate the power the CSM holds.
-Liang
Ed: Also, CCP has done tons for my mostly solo/super small corp play style since Apocrypha.
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
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mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
309
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 23:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
A well designed expansion does not have to cater to the group player anymore than it has to cater to a solo player, and part of the point of their new development process is to get back to that. Apocrypha and wormholes are a good example of this - you have C1/C2s on the low end and C5/C6 on the high end. Contrast that with Incursion, where if you're a solo player, you're told HTFU and group or get out.
This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Nick Asir
Triple Helix Corporation
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 23:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
I dont think that CCP wants solo players. Why would you play solo anyway? Seems every aspect of the game is much easier in even small groups. |
BuckBoomBoom
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 23:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
There are really 2 types of ppl that CCP really cares about or should anyway. The new player and the Vets. That is where there money comes from. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3233
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 23:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
mynnna wrote:A well designed expansion does not have to cater to the group player anymore than it has to cater to a solo player, and part of the point of their new development process is to get back to that. Apocrypha and wormholes are a good example of this - you have C1/C2s on the low end and C5/C6 on the high end. Contrast that with Incursion, where if you're a solo player, you're told HTFU and group or get out.
More like your ship isn't shiny enough, HTFU and go mine.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
225
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Posted - 2013.01.19 23:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
The problem is that once a company starts pushing solo features, the feel of the game changes and becomes bland. Emergent gameplay is greatly reduced. I've seen this happen with countless MMOs.
The great part of being a solo player in Eve is that you are in the midst of a thriving and active universe. You fly past fleets of players preparing for a fight, watch the evolution of multi-player supply chains on the market, etc. While this is easy to miss at first glance, it's what makes Eve different from 99% of other MMOs. In order to keep this aspect of Eve, CCP needs to constantly push for new social minded features. I think CCP is right in pushing people towards socializing, because that's where the epic stories and experiences really come from. It reinforces Eve's sense of scale.
These thoughts are coming from a solo player. To sum it up, I'll repeat that there is a massive difference in being a "lone wolf" player navigating within big group oriented systems, vs being yet another drone farming single player minigames. It seems great at first, but quickly gets stale. |
March rabbit
Aliastra
488
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 23:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nick Asir wrote:I dont think that CCP wants solo players. Why would you play solo anyway? Seems every aspect of the game is much easier in even small groups.
1. not every aspect gives good bonuses to groups (take a look to missions, exploration, trading, small scale manufacturing....)
2. CCP wants money and players bring it. |
Syn Fatelyng
Redanni
85
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Posted - 2013.01.19 23:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Largely ignored? Walking In Stations was the patch that catered heavily to people not wanting to interact with anyone past the door. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
357
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Posted - 2013.01.19 23:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm sorry, wtf is a "single lurking player"? How does that in any way translate to the need for more "solo play"?
Talk about grasping at straws here. |
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Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
10
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Posted - 2013.01.20 00:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've always thought that MMOs are mostly solo games with lots of other players around.
It's the possibility of many random connections that is part of the fun.
Most of the time players spend most of their time doing their own thing, then jump into group activities every so often.
I don't think game devs should force that.
There are some game designs, like WoWs random group dungeons that try to force group behaviour (in groups of five), Runescape copied that format too, as did SW TOR and probably a few others.
I don't see that as group play.
I see that as game devs thinking that is how players play.
Some sort of mass hallucination, or massive multiplayer hallucination.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3234
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 00:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Syn Fatelyng wrote:Largely ignored? Walking In Stations was the patch that catered heavily to people not wanting to interact with anyone past the door.
Indeed, that's why the doors' safety locks would not disengage.
Keeping you safe everyday.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Gal'o Sengen
State War Academy
Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2013.01.20 01:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Stop trying to make people join Nullsec as if it's the best thing since sliced bread. Nullsec is boring.
And bring back Mission and Can flipping. Seriously that is the most fun i ever had in EVE. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
37
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Posted - 2013.01.20 01:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
I don't know.
One the chat channel and subsequent Teamspeak server off the channel "EvE Voice Help's" most of the people I talk to own their own corps, but don't mind interacting with other people on Teamspeak.
It is just that people do want human interaction but don't really trust each other enough to include each other in their own corp.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby" |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1607
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Posted - 2013.01.20 01:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Quote:Unifex reminded the CSM once again that this group, the lurking single players who are already subscribed, are the majority of characters on Tranquility
I keep reading this and all I see is Unifex saying that more CHARACTERS are controlled by people who solo, and not specifically that there are more people playing solo.
They don't even know how many unique accounts there are on TQ. 350k accounts could just be 250k players for all they know. If they don't know how many unique accounts there are, how can they know how many of the characters who don't fleet are actually all solo players.
Are those 6 machinaws mining in that belt 6 players or is it 1 player with 6 accounts?
Becaue they did a survey?
Duh, very few people play directly with someone else 100% of the time, damn near all of us solo. That's no the same as saying a solo PLAYER. You know, a guy who never does anything with other people.
Or am I supposed to be reading:
Quote:single players who are subscribed, are the majority of CHARACTERS on Tranquility
some other way?
When did Unifex say that the majority of players are playing solo? |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
578
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 01:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
mechtech wrote:The problem is that once a company starts pushing solo features, the feel of the game changes and becomes bland. Emergent gameplay is greatly reduced. I've seen this happen with countless MMOs.
The great part of being a solo player in Eve is that you are in the midst of a thriving and active universe. You fly past fleets of players preparing for a fight, watch the evolution of multi-player supply chains on the market, etc. While this is easy to miss at first glance, it's what makes Eve different from 99% of other MMOs. In order to keep this aspect of Eve, CCP needs to constantly push for new social minded features. I think CCP is right in pushing people towards socializing, because that's where the epic stories and experiences really come from. It reinforces Eve's sense of scale.
These thoughts are coming from a solo player. To sum it up, I'll repeat that there is a massive difference in being a "lone wolf" player navigating within big group oriented systems, vs being yet another drone farming single player minigames. It seems great at first, but quickly gets stale.
I agree on some point but the game can be done in solo depend on what you want to do in eve. I like to idea you can play alone. But let me far. This will bored the tears out of you in about a week, but if you are a SP player then well there is no team play needing (login logout). If you are a LP player, solo can be done but takes time. If you are a PVP player well you can solo but you want that? And the PVE content is need to be played with atleast 2 players or more. And you got marketing traders but thats more the pvp style. Or a trader that sticks in high sec only and can be done solo.
And yes iam solo player mining all day long. But i also do pve misions with my corps or explore WH and more. So is that realy that bad? |
Tesal
171
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 02:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
I like to play with myself. Who doesn't? |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2136
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 02:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Who cares really if players play as a group or solo? CCP needs subs.
e: Also, to convince SOME people that their Eve experience could be better if they interacted with other people in an MMO is an exercise in futility. |
Google Voices
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 02:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lies! I am not a singularity, I am a plurality!
Therefore it's impossible for me to play solo....
I am the voices of Google! Want answers? Learn to read...... |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
6759
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 02:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Google Voices wrote:Lies! I am not a singularity, I am a plurality!
Therefore it's impossible for me to play solo....
You have schizophrenia too? So do we! 
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
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Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
167
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Posted - 2013.01.20 02:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nick Asir wrote:I dont think that CCP wants solo players. Why would you play solo anyway? Seems every aspect of the game is much easier in even small groups.
CCP wants whomever pays their bills, actually CCP indirectly encourages players to go it alone, Trust, Tax, Politics, and countless other issues are avoided, its no wonder one man corps are rampant.
New Player retention is important to our community. |
YuuKnow
Blue Republic
627
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Posted - 2013.01.20 03:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
I like Uniflex's and Seagulls idea of creating a total vision of the game. It seems like that has been lacking for a bit.
yk |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
157
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Posted - 2013.01.20 03:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
TL;DR: solo players are by CCP's words a majority in EVE and have been largely ignored. One of the approaches to EVE's next decade it's dealing with us and the person in charge is CCP Seagull. Follow the link and make your voice heard.
Forums are "multiplayer", sorry they wont hear you here. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
313
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
BuckBoomBoom wrote:There are really 2 types of ppl that CCP really cares about or should anyway. The new player and the Vets. That is where there money comes from.
No. A new solo player will desire very different things than a veteran group player (just for example), which means that using "vet" and "newbie" as your high level archetypes is foolish. CCP recognizes this, which is why they identified "enabler", "instigator", "follower", "lurker" and "small group leader" instead. Within each of those categories might be other sub-categories ("PvEer, "explorer", "pvper", "industrialist", etc), and then newbie/vet is a classification that overlays that in other ways.
That's not to say that they shouldn't take them into consideration as categories, just that they're a second or third tier classification. You provide content for the follower or lurker (for example), and it might fit a sub category ("miner" for example) and then you make sure that both new and old players get something out of it (by buffing barges for the vets but also smoothing out the skill progression and adding the venture for the new guys).
This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
65
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nick Asir wrote:I dont think that CCP wants solo players. Why would you play solo anyway? Seems every aspect of the game is much easier in even small groups.
Because you can't trust any other player?
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Nicor Syke'Nexen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.01.20 04:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think the number one reason why there are so many solo players:
1. It is very easy to get scammed, in at least 452 different ways, by people you are supposed to trust and/or be friends with.
Spend some time in an npc corp and listen to these guys talk about the corp they used to be in. this is the biggest issue to these guys. If CCP would just patch up some loopholes and fix a few things *cough* POSes and Ship Maintenance Array *cough*, a lot of these issues would go away. Most people don't want to have their carrier stolen by some guy they've supposedly been friends with for 3 years...
and before anyone throws in the 'emergent gameplay' or 'sandbox' arguments... Then why do npc corp protections and strict concord rules even exist? People always try to claim how sandboxy EVE is, but the sandbox only barely begins if you are in a player corp and/or leave high sec. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2135
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 05:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:People always try to claim how sandboxy EVE is, but the sandbox only barely begins if you are in a player corp and/or leave high sec.
So join a player corp and leave highsec 
CSM Winter 2012 Summit Minutes- "On the subject of vanity items, Two step expressed many player's desire to be able to build a ***** in-áspace." |
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2013.01.20 06:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
LOL so many minds constantly thinking upon the game as to how to make it fun. |
Lugia3
Pirates Incorporated
252
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Solo players may be the majority, but they are doing it wrong.
I operate under the flag of a solo corp made up of me and my alts, but I actually fly with another group. I'm practically in their corp.
Give drones some love:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176396&#post2176396 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3236
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 06:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:It is very easy to get scammed, in at least 452 different ways, by people you are supposed to trust and/or be friends with.
Reminds me of this time we were promised an Aeon killmail.
Turns out Boat was looking at an Amarr Control Tower Large sideways.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
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