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Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
14
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Posted - 2013.01.18 15:04:00 -
[91] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Posting in another carebear hate thread.
Increasing my post ratting is good !!
This is not a "care bear" hate thread. Its a thread about options for player created content. Are there options besides direct PvP combat for destroying someones assets? An option that carebears might enjoy.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1178
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Its kind of funny listening to some of the posts here it sounds like some people are scared to give the bears combat options. There's a dueling option on the way. You can jump into low-sec to "get your feet wet". Pick up a suspect flag and see who bites (not recommended in hubs). Wardec someone. Find the nearest wormhole and camp it on the inside, or see who lives there and get into a fight. Save up some space-cash and do some RvB. There are tons of PvP options out there. People who don't take them don't because they're afraid. Of what, i couldn't tell you.
I can tell you lol. The number 1 barrier to people PVPing is fear of losing. Some people can't handle losing AT ALL and will do anything to avoid it, whether it's hiding in high sec behind CONCORDS skirt or never undocking in null sec unless they have a 250 man fleet with them.
I've noticed this in every game I played. I once asked this question on another game forum:
Which of these 2 scenarios would you enjoy most often??
Option A: You have a match between 2 teams and your team is WAY better or bigger than the other and you mop the floor with your opponents after a very short period of time.
Or
Option B: You have a match between 2 fairly evenly matched sides the game has a lot of back and forth, lots of manuvering, seems to last for ever and at the end of it You and your Team lose.
I'm obviously an Option B guy in a game (option A in real life where you don't get to respawn :) ), but the VAST majority of people who responded to me were Option A people.
I'd rather have fun in a close contest and lose than win every single time by a landslide, but then again, my ego and self worth aren't tied to "winning". Of course the most fun for me would be a close game where my side won lol, but I enjoy the FIGHT, not just the outcome. That's why when I was a Gallente Faction Warfare FC i told people who joined my fleets "I don't DO subtle, we're going to jump straight into the Teeth of the Squids (Caldari) and kill them or die trying". That's my idea of a game.
But most people want to "win" and be the hero and be in a game what they can't be in real life (a hero who gets all the girls). Nothing anyone ever does is going to encourage people like that to risk defeat and thus the bursting of their own mental bubbles. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
586
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:10:00 -
[93] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote: I think the cheapest JC I have now is 120 million isk with the hardwires in his head and hes not the combat orintated guy ><.
But that is all down to your choice of implants. It has nothing to do with basic clone costs. Why i play EVE:-á20% for gameplay experience, 30% for the social aspect and 50% because of CCPGÇÖs empty promises.-á |
Seven Koskanaiken
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:14:00 -
[94] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Some Rando wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Its kind of funny listening to some of the posts here it sounds like some people are scared to give the bears combat options. There's a dueling option on the way. You can jump into low-sec to "get your feet wet". Pick up a suspect flag and see who bites (not recommended in hubs). Wardec someone. Find the nearest wormhole and camp it on the inside, or see who lives there and get into a fight. Save up some space-cash and do some RvB. There are tons of PvP options out there. People who don't take them don't because they're afraid. Of what, i couldn't tell you. i can tell you lol. The number 1 barrier to people PVPing is fear of losing. Some people can't handle losing AT ALL and will do anything to avoid it, whether it's hiding in high sec behind CONCORDS skirt or never undocking in null sec unless they have a 250 man fleet with them. I've noticed this in every game I played. I once asked this question on another game forum: Which of these 2 scenarios would you enjoy most often?? Option A: You have a match between 2 teams and your team is WAY better or bigger than the other and you mop the floor with your opponents after a very short period of time. Or Option B: You have a match between 2 fairly evenly matched sides the game has a lot of back and forth, lots of manuvering, seems to last for ever and at the end of it You and your Team lose. I'm obviously an Option B guy in a game (option A in real life where you don't get to respawn :) ), but the VAST majority of people who responded to me were Option A people. I'd rather have fun in a close contest and lose than win every single time by a landslide, but then again, my ego and self worth aren't tied to "winning". Of course the most fun for me would be a close game where my side won lol, but I enjoy the FIGHT, not just the outcome. That's why when I was a Gallente Faction Warfare FC i told people who joined my fleets "I don't DO subtle, we're going to jump straight into the Teeth of the Squids (Caldari) and kill them or die trying". That's my idea of a game. But most people want to "win" and be the hero and be in a game what they can't be in real life (a hero who gets all the girls). Nothing anyone ever does is going to encourage people like that to risk defeat and thus the bursting of their own mental bubbles.
so true, it's all in the mind thread titles reminds me of when people says they "physically can't lose weight", as if they are outside the laws of physics or something? unless someone had their hands blown off in war or something then physically everyone can pvp |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
4259
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:19:00 -
[95] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Nova Fox wrote: I think the cheapest JC I have now is 120 million isk with the hardwires in his head and hes not the combat orintated guy ><.
But that is all down to your choice of implants. It has nothing to do with basic clone costs.
Medical Clone replaces the jump(any) clone's death. Thats still 100 million on my wallet every time you pop my egg. You don't suddenly wake up in your previous body.
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Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
586
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:27:00 -
[96] - Quote
I think you have been buying the wrong clone grade mate... You only need Upsilon (45 mil) with your sp
But we digress. Why i play EVE:-á20% for gameplay experience, 30% for the social aspect and 50% because of CCPGÇÖs empty promises.-á |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
4259
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:33:00 -
[97] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I think you have been buying the wrong clone grade mate... You only need Upsilon (45 mil) with your sp But we digress.
Shows you how often I buy a clone these days.
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
4259
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:35:00 -
[98] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Nova Fox wrote:/Nova Fox points at cost of his clone*
The reason why I do not ever pvp anymore is that the rate I incurr Isk. To replace my clone would take me a year or so of work.
Eve Board says you have at most 120-odd million isk. Clones for you cost 45 million isk. You are going to tell me that you can't do that in an hour or two?
Yes. I usually play about 15 minutes, a week.
|
Seven Koskanaiken
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:48:00 -
[99] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:there's no difference between pvp and mining both is just a series of actions carried out on a computer screen
This is the most pointless and demonstrably untrue statement that I have ever seen with a name next to it. its only untrue in your mind No it's a fact. Clicking a button to active your mining lasers is infinitely different than competing with a human being.
huh
i mean if you want to get in a fleet you - get the ship you're told - fit it the way you're told - do what you're told by the FC
wtf? u just gotta follow orders, what is hard about that, let alone PHYSICALLY UNABLE for a person to do what the hell come on, really |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:01:00 -
[100] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:... wtf? u just gotta follow orders, what is hard about that, let alone PHYSICALLY UNABLE for a person to do what the hell come on, really
What are you, young 20's, healthy american male from a middle class background, most significant risk exposure driving? World is your oyster kid.
There are however physical limitations, some of those are caused by chemical interactions in the brain. Not all gamers have the same limitations or options that you do.
That is no reason for the game to disinclude options that may work for some people but not for others.
That statement is a bit of a mandala, please accept it with my compliments.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
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Khergit Deserters
647
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
There are many things that can disable a carebear's PVP ability. Stressful job. Eight hours of pre-existing computer monitor eye strain from work. Long commute. Kid maintenance. Pet maintenance. House maintenance. Bills. Cialis side effects.* Any of those can make a carebear not want to do anything more intensive that clicking on manufacturing jobs or sell orders.
I like the idea of carebears being able to do automated PVP. Maybe launch some kind of death drone into low or null sec. Kind of like manufacturing jobs, you get a certain number of PVP jobs that you can handle at once. So you just log in, check your skill queue, manage your PVP jobs. "hey guys, check this out, one of my death drone got a punisher. kewl"
*Headache, indigestion, back pain, muscle aches, flushing, stuffy or runny nose, muscle pains, back pains, erections lasting more than four hours. If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when they're in trouble again.
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Seven Koskanaiken
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:13:00 -
[102] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:... wtf? u just gotta follow orders, what is hard about that, let alone PHYSICALLY UNABLE for a person to do what the hell come on, really What are you, young 20's, healthy american male from a middle class background, most significant risk exposure driving? World is your oyster kid. There are however physical limitations, some of those are caused by chemical interactions in the brain. Not all gamers have the same limitations or options that you do. That is no reason for the game to disinclude options that may work for some people but not for others. That statement is a bit of a mandala, please accept it with my compliments.
no actually the only accurate thing there is male i mean, if you want to do this personal thing then here, i am poor as **** and have something called menieres disease so know what PHYSICALLY UNABLE to do things means what is going on here is people who just dont LIKE something are (yet again) using an excuse, rather than just coming out and say "i dont care for it"
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Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
18
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:27:00 -
[103] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote: no actually the only accurate thing there is male i mean, if you want to do this personal thing then here, i am poor as **** and have something called menieres disease so know what PHYSICALLY UNABLE to do things means what is going on here is people who just dont LIKE something are (yet again) using an excuse, rather than just coming out and say "i dont care for it"
What is going on here is that we are talking about options that will allow people to interact in game with one another. The bears have very clearly stated that "they don't care for PvP" they are not making excuses.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss options for bears to strike back at PvPers without engaging in hot seat PvP.
It does not in any way lessen the significance of your own situation to provide consideration for the limitations of others. Your own experiences seem to create a significant self bias towards the subject. Your arguments are really all to do with yourself and not applicable to this thread.
You can PM me an apology if you want.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Mister S Burke
Earths Naval Space Command The Mandalorians
43
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:31:00 -
[104] - Quote
I think PVP in EVE is extremely over-rated. I am in a PVP crew now and sure there are some fun spots and it is more exciting compared to other MMO's, but frankly I'm starting to see it as more of a pain than anything. I'm just not seeing any return on the massive time investment. EVE PVP isn't terrible, just highly over-rated. I feel like the opportunity cost just to get into some action isn't worth it. I'm not making any money playing grabass trying to chase down a fleeing war target (who started the war, sigh.) It does crack me up when players start chest beating and acting like they are getting the adrenaline rush that you would get skydiving, rappelling from a helo or flying in on a helicopter air assault that had 3 times as many choppers as the apocalypse now village scene; yes I have done all those things. So stop stroking your virtual epeen studs and acting like carebears are crying children because they don't want to wander null for hours on end gate jumping Zzzzz, I've found more currently military and ex military "carebearing" than I have 'leet PVPers." |
Seven Koskanaiken
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:34:00 -
[105] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote: no actually the only accurate thing there is male i mean, if you want to do this personal thing then here, i am poor as **** and have something called menieres disease so know what PHYSICALLY UNABLE to do things means what is going on here is people who just dont LIKE something are (yet again) using an excuse, rather than just coming out and say "i dont care for it"
What is going on here is that we are talking about options that will allow people to interact in game with one another. The bears have very clearly stated that "they don't care for PvP" they are not making excuses. The purpose of this thread is to discuss options for bears to strike back at PvPers without engaging in hot seat PvP. It does not in any way lessen the significance of your own situation to provide consideration for the limitations of others. Your own experiences seem to create a significant self bias towards the subject. Your arguments are really all to do with yourself and not applicable to this thread. You can PM me an apology if you want.
bears can get pvpers by bountying them, or hiring a merc corp dunno what an apology is for? lol lolspaceshipforums
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Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
73
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:35:00 -
[106] - Quote
Getting blowed up isn't fun. GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mister S Burke wrote: I think PVP in EVE is extremely over-rated. I am in a PVP crew now and sure there are some fun spots and it is more exciting compared to other MMO's, but frankly I'm starting to see it as more of a pain than anything. I'm just not seeing any return on the massive time investment. EVE PVP isn't terrible, just highly over-rated. I feel like the opportunity cost just to get into some action isn't worth it. I'm not making any money playing grabass trying to chase down a fleeing war target (who started the war, sigh.) It does crack me up when players start chest beating and acting like they are getting the adrenaline rush that you would get skydiving, rappelling from a helo or flying in on a helicopter air assault that had 3 times as many choppers as the apocalypse now village scene; yes I have done all those things. So stop stroking your virtual epeen studs and acting like carebears are crying children because they don't want to wander null for hours on end gate jumping Zzzzz, I've found more currently military and ex military "carebearing" than I have 'leet PVPers."
I told you that Eve is not for you man. I didn't say that to be mean or to elevate the harshness of the game. It just isn't. Try watching the youtube series "lets play eve online" by Dr. Ogres. The player is an old player who starts a new toon. His playstyle is one which uses the PvE content to create fleets and he RP's the early scenarios a bit. I think its the most interesting way to play the game. It may work for you better than the workaday PvP corps.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
743
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 16:58:00 -
[108] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I'd rather have fun in a close contest and lose than win every single time by a landslide, but then again, my ego and self worth aren't tied to "winning". Of course the most fun for me would be a close game where my side won lol, but I enjoy the FIGHT, not just the outcome. That's why when I was a Gallente Faction Warfare FC i told people who joined my fleets "I don't DO subtle, we're going to jump straight into the Teeth of the Squids (Caldari) and kill them or die trying". That's my idea of a game. Couldn't agree more. I think, for me, I really started to enjoy PvP (not just try to get into fights) when I started believing I was terrible at EVE. I knew I was going to lose so the wins were cherished and the losses simply accepted.
It's so funny to see my FC talk about "welping" (we got in over our heads rescuing the one dude who's actually welping himself) our "fleet" (three or four dudes) and feeling bad about it. He's so hard on himself, but the rest of us pretty much just say "**** it" and move on. We have a great time losing those ships, and got some kills in the process, so who cares? We'll bear it up for a week or two, buy new ships, and do it again.
Khergit Deserters wrote:There are many things that can disable a carebear's PVP ability. Stressful job. Eight hours of pre-existing computer monitor eye strain from work. Long commute. Kid maintenance. Pet maintenance. House maintenance. Bills. Cialis side effects.* Any of those can make a carebear not want to do anything more intensive that clicking on NPC red crosses, manufacturing jobs, sell orders or mining laser icons. I lol'd. Malcanis for CSM8 |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:09:00 -
[109] - Quote
Some Rando wrote: Couldn't agree more. I think, for me, I really started to enjoy PvP (not just try to get into fights) when I started believing I was terrible at EVE. I knew I was going to lose so the wins were cherished and the losses simply accepted.
Amen. How would you feel about big ugly rats created by some mad industrialist and sent to destroy you on occasion.
For myself I think it would make the game a lot more interesting, to be jumped by rats when you don't expect it. Really anything that would make the game a bit more volatile is good in my book.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Davith en Divalone
Aegis Coalition Logistics The Paganism Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:14:00 -
[110] - Quote
Using skills, tactics, intel, ships, and modules to deny you the fight you want, is a form of PvP. I love sneaking and stealth in games. Getting into and out of a system where players are hunting is fun. Doing it while earning ISK is even better. |
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Shadowschild
Black Lance Fidelas Constans
23
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Posted - 2013.01.18 17:21:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tarn Kugisa wrote:I don't do PvP often, even though I'm in nullsec, mainly because I either don't have the forsight to buy a few PvP ships, or I'm too poor when it happens to buy any.
I checked your evekill history. You average 1 kill a month & you live in nullsec. Unless you have a 2nd account that pvps, i would definately concider you a carebear.
Hell even I concider myself to be a bit of a carebare because if there is no scheduled op, im out making iskes. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
398
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:23:00 -
[112] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Or being able to produce faulty modules and sell them on the open market (at a loss of course). Or self destruct ships that are like mega smart bombs!
Never mind PvP - THIS is an idea that makes me giggle like Dr. Evil on a nitrox high.
Maybe set the chance of manufacturing bogus modules depend on one's industrial skills queue and how high it's been developed - All 'V' == no faulty modules. Lower skills, higher % of faulty modules.
Maybe fautls can range from lower output or reduced range to random failures whilst in use... Maybe even blowing up, in case of particularly bad units, doing damage to structure and wiping out the modules to either side of them in their bank?
OK, OK - so - unlikely. But still a fun thought. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:29:00 -
[113] - Quote
Shadowschild wrote:Tarn Kugisa wrote:I don't do PvP often, even though I'm in nullsec, mainly because I either don't have the forsight to buy a few PvP ships, or I'm too poor when it happens to buy any. I checked your evekill history. You average 1 kill a month & you live in nullsec. Unless you have a 2nd account that pvps, i would definately concider you a carebear. Hell even I concider myself to be a bit of a carebare because if there is no scheduled op, im out making iskes.
There's nothing wrong with carebearing. Its a valid and a fun play style.
There are carebears who refuse to participate in the game because they fear loss of isk. These people would like to see Eve changed to support their risk free idea of play. Which would ruin Eve. Call them extrebears or horribles.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1517
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:33:00 -
[114] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Clementina wrote:I'm going to let the carebears here in on a little secret.
PvPers get afraid during combat too.
The pain of loss, The humiliation of possibly being chastised for a shitfit, the fear of defeat in battle, and the ennui of just being able to witness your warped, webbed and scrambled ship circle the drain is something that happens to PvPers as well as carebears.
A game that elicits the kind of physical reaction that I have felt in Eve is a very rare thing. It is perhaps CCP's greatest achievement, and perhaps one of the most important dynamics ever developed re computer simulations. This feeling must be respected and encouraged and fostered by the player base. Perhaps I'm wrong about bears and their frozen fingers locked around the keyboard, good. What is obvious is that some people don't like it, even if they do like combat missions. Is there some mechanic that would be fun for those players that would allow them to engage in ship PvP? They like building things and planning skill tree's and ? How could those activities be applied to PvP? I have looked into this issue for a good long time. What the PvP combat adverse players are afraid of is stress. A confrontational interaction with another person is what causes the physical reaction you mention. For some that gives them The Rush, and is desirable. For others its just a pile of stress that leaves them feeling drained and even sick, and is to be avoided.
Why do such players even play eve? Because its the best space MMO on the market, and with a little care the stressful situations can be avoided the majority of the time. Do you know a better space MMO for such players?
Adding new ways for there to be confrontational interaction will not change the issue. The stress adverse player will avoid them too. But what if we dropped down from "confrontational" to "competitive" interaction. Examples in game are the market and high sec exploration (whoever finds it first and does it fast gets the reward).
An example: Solar systems that can be claimed by an alliance via doing more industry and NPC killing there than any other alliance. I'm not sure how to really do this as a war dec would escalate the competition for system ownership to being confrontational, but its a thought. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
743
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:33:00 -
[115] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Amen. How would you feel about big ugly rats created by some mad industrialist and sent to destroy you on occasion. Sound on par with AFK mining, people wanting to play the game without actually playing. Malcanis for CSM8 |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1180
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 18:05:00 -
[116] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: I have looked into this issue for a good long time. What the PvP combat adverse players are afraid of is stress. A confrontational interaction with another person is what causes the physical reaction you mention. For some that gives them The Rush, and is desirable. For others its just a pile of stress that leaves them feeling drained and even sick, and is to be avoided.
Why do such players even play eve? Because its the best space MMO on the market, and with a little care the stressful situations can be avoided the majority of the time. Do you know a better space MMO for such players?
Star Trek Online.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/01/11/a-quick-star-trek-online-pvp-interview-with-jack-emmert/
Jack Emmert wrote:Massively: How integral is PvP play to Star Trek Online as a whole?
Jack Emmert: All of our PvP is optional and consensual.
If I had despised "confrontation" and had a choice between a game built upon the idea of non-consensual pvp and a game like STO, I'd pick STO.
Quote: Adding new ways for there to be confrontational interaction will not change the issue. The stress adverse player will avoid them too. But what if we dropped down from "confrontational" to "competitive" interaction. Examples in game are the market and high sec exploration (whoever finds it first and does it fast gets the reward).
An example: Solar systems that can be claimed by an alliance via doing more industry and NPC killing there than any other alliance. I'm not sure how to really do this as a war dec would escalate the competition for system ownership to being confrontational, but its a thought.
A person who doesn't not like Stress and Confrontation (and loss, remember EVEs harsh death penalty) choosing to play EVE online is like choosing swimming as a hobby when you are allergic to Chlorine. No amount of rationalizing will make one such as that NOT allergic to chlorine. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 18:06:00 -
[117] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Amen. How would you feel about big ugly rats created by some mad industrialist and sent to destroy you on occasion. Sound on par with AFK mining, people wanting to play the game without actually playing.
IDK the AFK thing doesn't bother me at all. The skill que is kind of AFK playing, as is research, trading, production, PI and I'm sure a host of other stuff. So the game already supports that kind of play, nothing wrong with it. Especially when it is balanced by greater risk and lower reward.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 18:13:00 -
[118] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
A person who doesn't not like Stress and Confrontation (and loss, remember EVEs harsh death penalty) choosing to play EVE online is like choosing swimming as a hobby when you are allergic to Chlorine. No amount of rationalizing will make one such as that NOT allergic to chlorine.
And yet they are here, they stay. Maybe they are not opposed to risk and stress, rather they just can't pilot ships in combat situations for whatever reason. The goons are always saying that the health of the Eve economy is based on destruction, relies on it. What options exist to destroy the ISK of your enemies outside of direct combat? Something that the bears could participate in.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Corey Fumimasa
The Advent of Faith
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 18:18:00 -
[119] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:
An example: Solar systems that can be claimed by an alliance via doing more industry and NPC killing there than any other alliance. I'm not sure how to really do this as a war dec would escalate the competition for system ownership to being confrontational, but its a thought.
That is interesting. Maybe massive bonuses for a bear corp in highsec when fighting in a system that it owns. And a requirement for merc corps to destroy a certain number of beacons or run certain missions before they can assault a POS in a system "owned" by the bear corp.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Khergit Deserters
649
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 18:31:00 -
[120] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Clementina wrote:I'm going to let the carebears here in on a little secret. PvPers get afraid during combat too. The pain of loss, The humiliation of possibly being chastised for a shitfit, the fear of defeat in battle, and the ennui of just being able to witness your warped, webbed and scrambled ship circle the drain is something that happens to PvPers as well as carebears. A game that elicits the kind of physical reaction that I have felt in Eve is a very rare thing. It is perhaps CCP's greatest achievement, and perhaps one of the most important dynamics ever developed re computer simulations. This feeling must be respected and encouraged and fostered by the player base. Perhaps I'm wrong about bears and their frozen fingers locked around the keyboard, good. What is obvious is that some people don't like it, even if they do like combat missions. Is there some mechanic that would be fun for those players that would allow them to engage in ship PvP? They like building things and planning skill tree's and ? How could those activities be applied to PvP? I have looked into this issue for a good long time. What the PvP combat adverse players are afraid of is stress. A confrontational interaction with another person is what causes the physical reaction you mention. For some that gives them The Rush, and is desirable. For others its just a pile of stress that leaves them feeling drained and even sick, and is to be avoided. Why do such players even play eve? Because its the best space MMO on the market, and with a little care the stressful situations can be avoided the majority of the time. Do you know a better space MMO for such players? Adding new ways for there to be confrontational interaction will not change the issue. The stress adverse player will avoid them too. But what if we dropped down from "confrontational" to "competitive" interaction. Examples in game are the market and high sec exploration (whoever finds it first and does it fast gets the reward). An example: Solar systems that can be claimed by an alliance via doing more industry and NPC killing there than any other alliance. I'm not sure how to really do this as a war dec would escalate the competition for system ownership to being confrontational, but its a thought.
For some the root might be aversion to stress. But I think for most, PVP is just more "hardcore gaming," (i.e. intensive gameplay and time commitment) than they can get into or want to get into. If you think about it, you need a lot of game knowledge to be any good at PVP. You might face any one of hundreds of different ship types and mod types. Learning about them doesn't just happen, you have to spend the time to read up on them. And it also helps if you keep up with the latest nerfs and buffs. That knowledge doesn't just jump in the boat, you have to do some homework. That's just one example of game knowledge you need to be effective at PVP.
The other thing is time commitment for the gaming session itself. Solo PVP pretty much seems to be a goner. So that means either doing something that requires committing to a fleet (low sec gang roam, null blobs, gate camps, whatever). As we all know, group activities don't happen instantly. They take time to set up, it takes time to get everywhere where they're going, all that. I lot of times I'd like to do some PVP, but I don't have two or three hours continuous to commit to a fleet op. I'm not going to get in fleet, then once we get set up, say 'Sorry guys, got to log, good luck.'
Bottom line is I think PVP is more hardcore gaming, in that it requires more intensive effort and time commitments. Not everybody has the time for that. If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when they're in trouble again.
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