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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1177
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 15:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote: From what I've seen of "merc groups" in Eve yes what you are describing is impossible. A few of the ice miners we killed have tried this tactic and it usually ends with the "mercs" ruining their precious kb stats while doing nothing to us. You think the iceminers gave a rats ass about the mercs k/d ratio aslong as they brought you enough hurt? It also depends on how much money you throw at a problem and consequently which mercs you hire. People with enough money and a basic understanding of 0,0 can get their revenge by using financial leverage, simple as that. Groups roam established 0,0 areas all the time looking for easy kills... even though your anecdote proves, beyond any doubt, that its impossible to kill goons in 0,0 . While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats. |
Alice Saki
Ducklings
3
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Posted - 2011.10.10 16:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Erm..... Badger MKII Triple Stab xD Works for me In Null.... But I am Crazy.
I love being chased :P My Null Roams.... Badger MKII :D They all-áHate my Stabby Badger... xD |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 20:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote: While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats.
But that's separate from the issue at hand. My post was about the ability to get even by hurting on the agressors. Is it hard for goons in general to follow a train of thought or is it restricted to the ones that post o the forums? |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 20:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Well, let's seeGǪ
It costs, what? 20M net to deliver 10k alpha. The common wisdom is to calculate drop value from half the cargo.
So for every 40M cargo, you need 10k EHP to be less than worth-while to gank for cash or on a gamble.
Adjust numbers to match reality (because I haven't look at the market for gank ships in a long while).
Depends on the target, but an orca is more about 200K EHP (decent fit) and this means a lot of T2 fitted/faction ammo ubber skilled pilots with 10/12K alpha per ship (full fit +ship I'd say about 200M piece)
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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1188
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 20:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote: While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats.
But that's separate from the issue at hand. My post was about the ability to get even by hurting on the agressors. Is it hard for goons in general to follow a train of thought or is it restricted to the ones that post o the forums? Amazingly when one adopts a contrary tone one tends to receive contrary replies. |
Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 21:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Well, let's seeGǪ
It costs, what? 20M net to deliver 10k alpha. The common wisdom is to calculate drop value from half the cargo.
So for every 40M cargo, you need 10k EHP to be less than worth-while to gank for cash or on a gamble.
Adjust numbers to match reality (because I haven't look at the market for gank ships in a long while).
Over 20 posts and finally a straight answer. I assume this is based on some sort of minmatar BS + 8x artis - insurance value? |
9th candle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.10 21:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:There is no amount of EHP which will make it unprofitable to gank you right now; first, because profitability is not a concern for the people who are doing most of the ganking; second, because Goonswarm Federation presently has open bounties on all mining and hauling ships within certain areas of space. You may be safe carrying 5 billion in a Badger; you may be ganked carrying 100 million in a Charon. It is literally a roll of the dice right now as to whether or not you get ganked, not a measure of perceived profitability: you are betting, at every stargate, that there are not enough goons whom have noticed your freighter, industrial, orca, mining barge, or exhumer, and whom have sufficient firepower to destroy it. Presently the payouts provided by the alliance bounties are sufficient as to incur no net cost to the pilot(s) involved in ganking any industry-related ship you might be piloting, anywhere. So if a single thing drops, it's profit.
Maybe you guys don't care about security status or setup time, but the general public won't start ganking orcas for tritanium. There is still a cost / benefit equation, you have shifted the break even point that's all.
1-Up Mushroom wrote:Honestly (Not saying you are) but most people who move expensive stuff are complete idiots. I mean I can't even being to tell you how many KM's I see where Badger's and Iterions are hauling millions or billions worth of stuff. I mean you basicly hauling them in a moving target, I mean EVERY Industrial WILL get scanned at one point in their journey, why make it so easy for gankers.
If your gonna move like lets say a Core X-type LAR, it takes up what 20m3. MOVE IT IN A FIRETAIL OR A ZEALOT OR A ABADDON! How many times have you seen them scanned? None probably, because nobody suspects them to haul anything but people are complete idiots when they haul stuff, they think they can only haul stuff in Indy's.
So the matter is not on how much cargo you can carry before your ganked, it's if your an idiot enough to use a Indy to haul your stuff (Sometimes I've seen T1 Frigates scanned though)
Well done, that's a genuinely stupid post. |
loser mclame fatty
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.10.10 21:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:
These are, OC, exceptional conditions where your alliance sat bonus/bounty's for ships in that particular space/belts (by the way I'm on the verge of getting billionaire with my oxytops stockpile thanks to you guys).
lol he thinks that 1b isk is a lot of money |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
436
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 22:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote: While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats.
But that's separate from the issue at hand. My post was about the ability to get even by hurting on the agressors. Is it hard for goons in general to follow a train of thought or is it restricted to the ones that post o the forums? What's the use of following a train of thought that is so obviously wrong?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 22:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
loser mclame fatty wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:
These are, OC, exceptional conditions where your alliance sat bonus/bounty's for ships in that particular space/belts (by the way I'm on the verge of getting billionaire with my oxytops stockpile thanks to you guys).
lol he thinks that 1b isk is a lot of money
Nice [stuff]. Keep posting |
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Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
25
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Posted - 2011.10.10 23:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote: Amazingly when one adopts a contrary tone one tends to receive contrary replies.
If your post was relevant to the discussion you'd get a proper reply.
Ladie Harlot wrote: What's the use of following a train of thought that is so obviously wrong?
People above 10 years of age are usually capable of having a discussion without derailing it with irrelevant points.
But then again, goons have proven themselves over and over again to be complete tools so I don't even know why I am telling you this. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1204
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 23:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cpt FinaGÇö
If you would stop blindly insulting the goons in this thread, then we might be inclined to provide helpful answers. I can assure you that so long as you argue back at us we will be content to perpetuate the Internet slap-fight ad infinitum. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1204
|
Posted - 2011.10.10 23:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Cpt Fina wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote: While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats.
But that's separate from the issue at hand. My post was about the ability to get even by hurting on the agressors. Is it hard for goons in general to follow a train of thought or is it restricted to the ones that post o the forums? What's the use of following a train of thought that is so obviously wrong? If it weren't for my horse, I never would have spent that year in college. |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 00:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Cpt FinaGÇö
If you would stop blindly insulting the goons in this thread, then we might be inclined to provide helpful answers. I can assure you that so long as you argue back at us we will be content to perpetuate the Internet slap-fight ad infinitum.
If anything this community has earned the right to blindly insult the goons. If you don't like being judged then don't join one of the most disliked organisations in eve.
And you seem to be confused once again GÇô I'm not asking for answers, I'm pointing out the idiocy in your posts. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1206
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 01:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
I see then that you wish to continue the slap-fight. Very well.
You must be either illiterate or uninformed, since you believe "the goons" to be a guild in EVE Online. It's not. What you call "the goons" refers to a group which exists outside of EVE. One does not play EVE and then join "the goons," as you state it; instead, one joins "the goons" by being one of "the goons'. This is accomplished by being a member of the Something Awful forums community, what is an entirely independent entity from EVE Online. Those persons, originating from Something Awful, then choosing to play video games together in a guild exclusive to that community constitute "the goons" that you are referencing. You can find examples of "the goons" in other video games, such as Goon Squad or Elitist Jerks on the Mal'Ganis realm in World of Warcraft; Goon Trek or Starfleet Dental in Star Trek Online; and, probably most familiar to you, Goonwaffe, The Greater Goon, and Elitist Ops in EVE Online. You will notice that the three space guilds I mention by name in EVE Online all exist independently from each other, in their own alliances, and sometimes at odds with each other: that is because, contrary to what your simple mind prefers to believe, "the goons" are not a singular and homogeneous entity.
Further to this, you are dumb. Regards. |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:I see then that you wish to continue the slap-fight. Very well.
You must be either illiterate or uninformed, since you believe "the goons" to be a guild in EVE Online. It's not. What you call "the goons" refers to a group which exists outside of EVE Online. One does not play EVE Online and then join "the goons," as you state it; instead, one joins "the goons" by being one of "the goons'. This is accomplished by being a member of the Something Awful forums community, what is an entirely independent entity from EVE Online. Those persons, originating from Something Awful, then choosing to play video games together in a guild exclusive to that community constitute "the goons" that you are referencing.
You can find examples of "the goons" in other video games, such as Goon Squad or Elitist Jerks on the Mal'Ganis realm in World of Warcraft; Goon Trek or Starfleet Dental in Star Trek Online; and, probably most familiar to you, Goonwaffe, The Greater Goon, and Elitist Ops in EVE Online. You will notice that the three space guilds I mention by name in EVE Online all exist independently from each other, in their own alliances, and sometimes at odds with each other: that is because, contrary to what your simple mind prefers to believe, "the goons" are not a singular and homogeneous entity that you can typecast like a two-bit charlatan.
Further to this, you are dumb. Regards.
Ok let' do the slapfight:
1
I claim that ganked industrialist have the means to take revenge on alliances corps.
Your response: Mercs care about their kill death ratio.
Conclusion: Irrelevant. You might aswell tell me about how bees like honey
2
I point out the irrelevancy of your response
Your response: sarcastic remark of how I don't take a contrary stance
Conclusion: Further pushing your irrelevant point GÇô indicating that you are incapable of realizing the idiocy of your post.
3
I claim that goons have earned to be treated with disrespect by the eve community.
Your response: A history lesson of how goons came about in Eve.
Conclusion: Irrelevant It doesn't matter if goons came from an internet forum or if it was you and your pet monkey who initated it in your moms basement GÇô fact still stands that there is an organized cooperative within the Eve-universe whos affiliated pilots or members refer to themselves as "goons". Any actions commited and statements expresed while being a goon reflects upon said cooperative GÇô any member who willingly (i gess none of you are forced) fly under the goonswarm banner or with the "goon label" should expect to be judged by the public perception of their banner.
Are you trying to come off as dense? Because it's working. You can't sem to engage in a normal discussion without bringing up totally irrelevant bullshit.
And yes, I do know what goonswarm is. I was flying in [TCC] and had join operations with goonswarm in syndicate it was around that time you guys got your 100th member. BUT I alo remember some the malicious bullshit that you guys have polluted Eve with and the eve community with during this time GÇô while openly stating that you want to break and destroy the game.
Now, if you are capable of it, you should reread my posts and point out in a clear manner what you disagree with and why. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1210
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
I don't disagree with any of your posts. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1210
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:40:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:I see then that you wish to continue the slap-fight. Very well.
You must be either illiterate or uninformed, since you believe "the goons" to be a guild in EVE Online. It's not. What you call "the goons" refers to a group which exists outside of EVE Online. One does not play EVE Online and then join "the goons," as you state it; instead, one joins "the goons" by being one of "the goons'. This is accomplished by being a member of the Something Awful forums community, what is an entirely independent entity from EVE Online. Those persons, originating from Something Awful, then choosing to play video games together in a guild exclusive to that community constitute "the goons" that you are referencing.
You can find examples of "the goons" in other video games, such as Goon Squad or Elitist Jerks on the Mal'Ganis realm in World of Warcraft; Goon Trek or Starfleet Dental in Star Trek Online; and, probably most familiar to you, Goonwaffe, The Greater Goon, and Elitist Ops in EVE Online. You will notice that the three space guilds I mention by name in EVE Online all exist independently from each other, in their own alliances, and sometimes at odds with each other: that is because, contrary to what your simple mind prefers to believe, "the goons" are not a singular and homogeneous entity that you can typecast like a two-bit charlatan.
Further to this, you are dumb. Regards. Ok let' do the slapfight: 1I claim that ganked industrialist have the means to take revenge on alliances corps. Your response: Mercs care about their kill death ratio. Conclusion: Irrelevant. You might aswell tell me about how bees like honey 2I point out the irrelevancy of your response Your response: sarcastic remark of how I don't take a contrary stance Conclusion: Further pushing your irrelevant point GÇô indicating that you are incapable of realizing the idiocy of your post. 3I claim that goons have earned to be treated with disrespect by the eve community. Your response: A history lesson of how goons came about in Eve. Conclusion: Irrelevant It doesn't matter if goons came from an internet forum or if it was you and your pet monkey who initated it in your moms basement GÇô fact still stands that there is an organized cooperative within the Eve-universe whos affiliated pilots or members refer themselves to as "goons". Any actions commited and statements expresed while being a goon reflects upon said cooperative GÇô any member who willingly (i gess none of you are forced) fly under the goonswarm banner or with the "goon label" should expect to be judged by the statements and actions commited by this organized entity. Are you trying to come off as dense? Because it's working. You can't sem to engage in a normal discussion without bringing up totally irrelevant bullshit. And yes, I do know what goonswarm is. I was flying in [TCC] and had join operations with goonswarm in syndicate it was around that time you guys got your 100th member. BUT I alo remember some the malicious bullshit that you guys have polluted Eve with and the eve community with during this time GÇô while openly stating that you want to break and destroy the game. Now, if you are capable of it, you should reread my posts and point out in a clear manner what you disagree with and why. I don't disagree with any of your posts. |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 04:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote: I can assure you that so long as you argue back at us we will be content to perpetuate the Internet slap-fight ad infinitum. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1222
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 05:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote: I can assure you that so long as you argue back at us we will be content to perpetuate the Internet slap-fight ad infinitum.
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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1222
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 05:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Arguing with someone who's obviously very worked up about something doesn't take much, and it certainly doesn't require disagreement. |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 06:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
Yay! I won an internet battle against a goon. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1225
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 06:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
~* Give Cpt Fina a sticker. *~ |
Songbird
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 12:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Isn't the orca still a non scannable hauling option? |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 13:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Yes, you cannot scan its corporate hangar; but, there is presently a 250 million ISK bounty on all Orca kills in Caldari or Gallente space. |
BolsterBomb
Dirkistan
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 20:17:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:Mfume Apocal wrote:Cpt Fina wrote:Luckily if a corp/alliance like goonswarm ganks a wealthy industialist he can always use his financial leverage to repay the favour in kind. Goons have assets, logistics and sov holdings that are viable targets for revenge. lol unless that wealthy industrialist can miracle more than 60 titans and 150 supercarriers out of his ass, i'd bet on goon space staying safe I like how you pointed out where i said that the industrialist would have to evict an alliance by himself. It's nice to see that you also have the capacity to realize that money spent to terrorize an alliance doesn't have to equate destroying it entirely OR equate to spending it immediately when an alliance might at a stable state and not used to further enhance the strain that most alliances face during war. Because if you didn't think of this you'd be as dense and incapacitated as the carebears that we are making fun of in this thread. I also congratulate you that you've grasped the concept of exemplification when I said " a corp/alliance like goonswarm". You, sir, strike me as a very insightful individual. Keep it up.
*sigh*.....all it takes is a couple bomber pilots to camp their systems to disrupt everything they do.
Its not hard to shut a system down or make it very very annoying and make their members very paranoid. I have sat in plenty of whs, 0.0 systems and shut down systems or made them have to stop what they are doing and try to bait me out. Just send 3-4 cloakies and go to town on their ops. Eventually enough of their members will **** and whine that it will become problamatic...... |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
459
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 21:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cpt Fina wrote:Yay! I won an internet battle against a goon. lol...you keep telling yourself that.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Jaiden Solo
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 22:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:1-Up Mushroom wrote:Honestly (Not saying you are) but most people who move expensive stuff are complete idiots. I mean I can't even being to tell you how many KM's I see where Badger's and Iterions are hauling millions or billions worth of stuff. I mean you basicly hauling them in a moving target, I mean EVERY Industrial WILL get scanned at one point in their journey, why make it so easy for gankers.
If your gonna move like lets say a Core X-type LAR, it takes up what 20m3. MOVE IT IN A FIRETAIL OR A ZEALOT OR A ABADDON! How many times have you seen them scanned? None probably, because nobody suspects them to haul anything but people are complete idiots when they haul stuff, they think they can only haul stuff in Indy's.
So the matter is not on how much cargo you can carry before your ganked, it's if your an idiot enough to use a Indy to haul your stuff (Sometimes I've seen T1 Frigates scanned though) Heavy tanked Rattlesnake can tank over 1.6K dps has and incredible amount of Ehp (also audit log containers?)
DPS doesn't matter - it is all about how much alpha you can tank. |
Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 22:40:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Cpt Fina wrote:Yay! I won an internet battle against a goon. lol...you keep telling yourself that.
Well then, please continue. You said I was wrong when i said that 0,0 entities can be hurt, can you elaborate on that. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1244
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 22:52:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nullsec entities can be hurt, but the degree of force required is beyond the means of most players, groups, or oganisations. |
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