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Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
646
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently pretty much all the ships under the same graphics degration model. On shield: Nothing happens On armor : Nothing happens On hull: Some flames Destroyed: Poof In terms of ship combat wise , that's about as complex as juggling fruits.
Now to enrich the experience , I propose 2 new model.One that affects gameplay , another that is purely superficial.(looks awesome tho)
Gameplay
On shields: The user's cap will suffer capacitor fluctuation as its shields are getting whammed. That is so simulate the reactor being strained to hold up the tank. As the shields get lower , there will be an increasing chance of a power surge , which means there maybe a up to 10% chance that the capacitor maybe blown out juicing your cap out temporarily for 2 seconds. (Can be reduced to 2% chance with "Reactor Stability " skills)
On armor: Now your shields is gone ,you are tanking the damage with your ship's physical form. As you take on more and more damage , your ship's module will gradually degrade to only 40%HP . Which shouldn't be a surprise , considering how most of your turrets ,antennas and propulsion modules are outboard. Additionally, as you lose armor ,once you fall below 40% armor (Can train "Armor Redundancy" to reduce the percentage to 10%), another mechanic kicks in. That point for on ,every damage your ship take , there will be a chance that the munition maybe penetrate your armor and strike your hull for 10% damage (Can be reduced to 0% with "Dermal plating" skills).
On hull: You have now reached the critical phase where your ship's structural integrity is under huge pressure. At that point , every damage your ship takes ,your modules also gets damaged. Your ship's maximum speed , capacitor capacity is reduced .(Can reduce the effect to 30% penalty by training "Emergency Procedures") . Once your hull falls below 20% , your engine shutdown and your ship is now immobilized.At that point you have 2 choice. One , get the logi in and rep your ship. Two, abandon ship .
Graphics According to CCP , less than 50% of EvE players have DX-11 cards ,so tessellation and other major overhauling will be forced to wait . However, we could use a clear desinction between tanking besides from Mass Effect 3 style OOOOHhhh SHINY COLORS DERP DERP
On shields: Munitions bounces off the shield bubble ,while lasers are absorbed At that stage , incoming firing have no effect on the structural integrity of the ship.
On armor: Your plating is taking on the blunt of the attack. However, as it still haven't penetrated the deck yet. Explosions and effects remains on the ship surface. However, I think a new texture should be loaded onto the ship as its armor tank is depleted.
On hull : Your ship is at the brink of total structural collapse. Fire has broke out all over the ship and secondary explosions are seen throughout the decks. You're leaking oxygen and fuel. The battle is already lost.
It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
SegaPhoenix
BREAKING-POINT Primal Force
74
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cool |
Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
303
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
They would like to do such fun things ( http://youtu.be/j9Ozvef7CvQ?t=1h58m29s). Going into tessellation and DX11 would help that yet far too many people still use old hardware.
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1219
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
As much as it sounds like a fun idea, in any realistic combat you are viewing:
1. The spreadsheet. 2. The icons for my armor shield, I'm not looking at the ship at all. 3. My overheat bars. |
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc Zero Hour Alliance
89
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
How does this suit you? http://youtu.be/-Z0ndjcRiZU?t=8m52s |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
646
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
AWESOME!
They really should do a highlight session of those conferences !
However, as far as I can tell, its still on a purely superficial level , and I think integration with gameplay would make a MUCH more dynamic experience. It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
41
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sure sounds like making armor tanking worse to me... |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
646
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Destoya wrote:Sure sounds like making armor tanking worse to me...
Well, when we look at the shields front. Power surge is VERY dangerous. If you lose caps for a few seconds, you will be left dead in the water.
When we compare to damaging your modules ,that only prohibits you from overheating for prolonged time. So comparatively , its not that much worse.
Not to mention all the handicaps and effects can be remedied by having the appropriate skills set. It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
646
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Posted - 2012.12.29 03:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:As much as it sounds like a fun idea, in any realistic combat you are viewing:
1. The spreadsheet. 2. The icons for my armor shield, I'm not looking at the ship at all. 3. My overheat bars.
Unless you have Retinitis pigmentosa , the ship model should be within your vision cone too :P It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
305
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Posted - 2012.12.29 04:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Adding more chance based mechanics is horrible. There is already too much of it. Having the game determine detrimental effects randomly after every hit past a % in shield or hull or armor is just another way to screw smaller groups of player. As if there wasn't enough reasons for blob alpha. This is more of a rts game than a rogue style fate of the gods roll of the dice.
I see this adding unneeded complexity for complexity sake with greater time sinks to become competitive for newer players with skills required to not even come close to making up for random drawbacks. And these ideas put too much pressure on armor users as their shields are always minimal and become low easily and even though they are not their primary defense can cut capacitor to their ship? |
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Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
646
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Posted - 2012.12.29 04:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pyre leFay wrote:Adding more chance based mechanics is horrible. There is already too much of it. Having the game determine detrimental effects randomly after every hit past a % in shield or hull or armor is just another way to screw smaller groups of player. As if there wasn't enough reasons for blob alpha. This is more of a rts game than a rogue style fate of the gods roll of the dice.
I see this adding unneeded complexity for complexity sake with greater time sinks to become competitive for newer players with skills required to not even come close to making up for random drawbacks. And these ideas put too much pressure on armor users as their shields are always minimal and become low easily and even though they are not their primary defense can cut capacitor to their ship?
You're not fighting in a lab environment . There are suppose to be chance based combat.
And as many people have said over the years, specialize. If you're a shield tanker , train up the appropriate skills to reduce the chain of power surge. Same goes for armor tanking.
On a side note, fights are determined BEFORE it even starts . Considering how the EvE community is growing by the hour I don't think it would be that hard to find a corp that would show you the ropes and let you get your feel of the battlefield before lobbing you as cannon fodders. As always , pick your fight . It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Torakenat
Space Cowboys United The Irukandji
25
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Posted - 2012.12.29 04:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
I love the graphical updates listed above however the game play mechanics would be devasting to some faction ships.
Amarr for instance is mainly armor based tanking with little to no reason for shield resistance. Allowing Amarr to have such a penalty to cap due to lack of shield resistance is putting them at a severe disadvantage to their armor tanking abilities. Imagine caldari taking a gameplay negative before any damage touching their shields.
Of course a decent amarr pilot would train shield passives after getting all their armor passives for that extra umph before hitting armor. Sometimes, in a game you have to be a little unrealistic to be feasible with the role's implied on faction gameplay.
Now, if you add in ship bonus's based on faction role's that would be more realistic |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
646
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Posted - 2012.12.29 04:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Torakenat wrote:I love the graphical updates listed above however the game play mechanics would be devasting to some faction ships.
Amarr for instance is mainly armor based tanking with little to no reason for shield resistance. Allowing Amarr to have such a penalty to cap due to lack of shield resistance is putting them at a severe disadvantage to their armor tanking abilities. Imagine caldari taking a gameplay negative before any damage touching their shields.
Of course a decent amarr pilot would train shield passives after getting all their armor passives for that extra umph before hitting armor. Sometimes, in a game you have to be a little unrealistic to be feasible with the role's implied on faction gameplay.
Now, if you add in ship bonus's based on faction role's that would be more realistic
ABSOLUTELY !
It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
305
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Posted - 2012.12.29 04:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ivy Romanova wrote: You're not fighting in a lab environment . There are suppose to be chance based combat.
And as many people have said over the years, specialize. If you're a shield tanker , train up the appropriate skills to reduce the chain of power surge. Same goes for armor tanking.
I think the opposition and their fitting should be the random chances within combat, not some nebulous random effects of your own ship.
And under your ideas, unless armor tanks dismiss shields completely like sleeper ships, they are a liability to your energy. Yet then everyone should just train for both otherwise. Its a new set of "learning" skills that everyone is expected to train before doing anything substantial. |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
647
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Posted - 2012.12.29 04:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pyre leFay wrote:Ivy Romanova wrote: You're not fighting in a lab environment . There are suppose to be chance based combat.
And as many people have said over the years, specialize. If you're a shield tanker , train up the appropriate skills to reduce the chain of power surge. Same goes for armor tanking.
I think the opposition and their fitting should be the random chances within combat, not some nebulous random effects of your own ship. And under your ideas, unless armor tanks dismiss shields completely like sleeper ships, they are a liability to your energy. Yet then everyone should just train for both otherwise. Its a new set of "learning" skills that everyone is expected to train before doing anything substantial.
Ivy Romanova wrote: *NOTE: Now obviosuly , such a setup would put certain race at a disadvantage. SO! To remedy that . Amarr ships will have a 20% bonus to reactor stability Caldari ships will not have a reactor stability ,instead receive an plating penalty of 5% making it more easy for damage to go to hull. Gallante will have a 5% reactor stability bonus . Matari won't have any bonus , as it is a speed based tanking race.(Debatable)
It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud.
112
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Posted - 2012.12.29 04:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cool idea, but not gonna fly. I fly Amarr ships almost exclusively. The only reason I have shields is because there is no way for me to just dump them and use solely armor. But I will not be happy with a penalty to my already strained cap just because an enemy blew through my shields on their way to my solid armor tank. Yes I saw you proposed giving Amarr ships a bonus to reactor stability. No, a "bonus" is not enoough, I want penalty proof, because there is absolutely no reason to punish my harbinger for letting its useless shields peel away like useless little paint flakes. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
1049
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Posted - 2012.12.29 04:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
If it wasn't for hardware limits we could simulate every subsystem of every ship and apply damage to each system in real time.
But does anyone -really- want that? In the real world complex machines can be broken very easy. To quote Scotty
Quote: The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
So lets say we simulate a new and improved Raven with redundant systems and all the fixings. All that will happen is that the closer you get to death the worse your ship performs, or the enemy gets lucky and knocks out something really important leaving you crippled and guaranteed to die for the rest of the fight.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a feature that made it possible to target subsystems on enemy ships, but straight up damage like this is a bad game mechanic.
Let's implement something like in "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident" where you can use precision lasers which do crap damage but can penetrate a shield and deal damage to a specific weapon or system on the enemy ship. Now that would be cool, especially when fighting things like enemy triage carrier gangs. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
342
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Posted - 2012.12.29 07:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
AFAIK mods currently may take damage when you're low on hull, but at this point you're screwed anyways (you must be really low). Not sure though, and it's pretty insubstantial too. I would agree with visual part only though. And only if it's optional (separate .exe files for DX9 and DX11, options etc. - for those with PCs unable to handle eycandies). |
Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
307
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Posted - 2012.12.29 07:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote: I would agree with visual part only though. And only if it's optional (separate .exe files for DX9 and DX11, options etc. - for those with PCs unable to handle eycandies).
The big question is, should we have different on-hit visual effects for different projectile ammo?
The developmental strain of keeping two separate clients functional is simply a nightmare. They have done it before and I doubt you would find a single Dev wanting to relive it.
As for projectile hits, seems completely possible. Specially keeping it simple to the highest damage type gains the color cue of the missile cousins. White kin, red therm, orange explosive, blue em, |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
2962
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Posted - 2012.12.29 08:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ivy Romanova wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:As much as it sounds like a fun idea, in any realistic combat you are viewing:
1. The spreadsheet. 2. The icons for my armor shield, I'm not looking at the ship at all. 3. My overheat bars. Unless you have Retinitis pigmentosa , the ship model should be within your vision cone too :P My ship isn't actually visually rendered in fleet fights, generally. Since I have LOD set to low and I'm zoomed out really far and all. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
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Xolve
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
1252
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Posted - 2012.12.29 08:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: My ship isn't actually visually rendered in fleet fights, generally. Since I have LOD set to low and I'm zoomed out really far and all.
EvE Graphics are pointless, there is no spoon, there is only overview. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
504
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Posted - 2012.12.29 08:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Xolve wrote:EvE Graphics are pointless, there is no spoon, there is only overview.
Agreed, but isn't that the core of the problem?
EvE Forum Bingo |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
648
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Posted - 2012.12.29 11:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tul Breetai wrote:Cool idea, but not gonna fly. I fly Amarr ships almost exclusively. The only reason I have shields is because there is no way for me to just dump them and use solely armor. But I will not be happy with a penalty to my already strained cap just because an enemy blew through my shields on their way to my solid armor tank. Yes I saw you proposed giving Amarr ships a bonus to reactor stability. No, a "bonus" is not enough, I want penalty proof, because there is absolutely no reason to punish my maller or baddon for letting its useless shields peel away like useless little paint flakes.
If you have penalty proof that kind of takes away the entire idea , HOWEVER , I guess there is a compromise. With Amarr ships , on lvl 5 of Reactor Stability. You can neglect the effect of power surge completely . It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
648
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Posted - 2012.12.29 11:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:If it wasn't for hardware limits we could simulate every subsystem of every ship and apply damage to each system in real time. But does anyone -really- want that? In the real world complex machines can be broken very easy. To quote Scotty Quote: The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
So lets say we simulate a new and improved Raven with redundant systems and all the fixings. All that will happen is that the closer you get to death the worse your ship performs, or the enemy gets lucky and knocks out something really important leaving you crippled and guaranteed to die for the rest of the fight. Personally, I wouldn't mind a feature that made it possible to target subsystems on enemy ships, but straight up damage like this is a bad game mechanic. Let's implement something like in "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident" where you can use precision lasers which do crap damage but can penetrate a shield and deal damage to a specific weapon or system on the enemy ship. Now that would be cool, especially when fighting things like enemy triage carrier gangs.
That won't be doable , since EvE isn't FTL . EvE mainly compose of a click and attack system. However , if we were to implement that system. I think it would be more realistic if we reserve it for the Supercaps , since the fights last long enough for such micro engagements to occur It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
648
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 11:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:AFAIK mods currently may take damage when you're low on hull, but at this point you're screwed anyways (you must be really low). Not sure though, and it's pretty insubstantial too. I would agree with visual part only though. And only if it's optional (separate .exe files for DX9 and DX11, options etc. - for those with PCs unable to handle eycandies).
The big question is, should we have different on-hit visual effects for different projectile ammo?
True. Projectile effects do need an update. But client separation won't be necessary imo , since in many major games ,there is a little toggle in the option that allows you to switch between DX9-10-11 It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
648
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Posted - 2012.12.29 11:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Ivy Romanova wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:As much as it sounds like a fun idea, in any realistic combat you are viewing:
1. The spreadsheet. 2. The icons for my armor shield, I'm not looking at the ship at all. 3. My overheat bars. Unless you have Retinitis pigmentosa , the ship model should be within your vision cone too :P My ship isn't actually visually rendered in fleet fights, generally. Since I have LOD set to low and I'm zoomed out really far and all.
You might as well as be playing with sticks and Magic the gathering.... you won't even be able to tell the difference It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Feledain
Rorqual Industry Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.12.29 12:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hm.. sounds not too bad.
Things i want with this.
Hull and Armor regeneration of fixed 1Hp/s up to 80% of total amount and Module regeneration of 1HP/min (5min?), but if its broken it stays broken. To simulate crew repair of the ship systems. And that our wormhole peeps dont have to carry a shitton on repair paste. Perhaps some new skills for better reg.
An Armor rig that shuts down shields completely and gives you something in return, Cap recharge or PG. Which scales with the armor rig skill, as a kind of increasing positive "penalty"
And being abel to move immobile ships with a tractorbeam, they are basically wrecks after all. |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
662
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Posted - 2012.12.29 17:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Feledain wrote:Hm.. sounds not too bad.
Things i want with this.
Hull and Armor regeneration of fixed 1Hp/s up to 80% of total amount and Module regeneration of 1HP/min (5min?), but if its broken it stays broken. To simulate crew repair of the ship systems. And that our wormhole peeps dont have to carry a shitton on repair paste. Perhaps some new skills for better reg.
An Armor rig that shuts down shields completely and gives you something in return, Cap recharge or PG. Which scales with the armor rig skill, as a kind of increasing positive "penalty"
And being abel to move immobile ships with a tractorbeam, they are basically wrecks after all.
EXCELLENT! I'll add that to the OP post It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud.
122
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Posted - 2012.12.29 17:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ivy Romanova wrote:Tul Breetai wrote:Cool idea, but not gonna fly. I fly Amarr ships almost exclusively. The only reason I have shields is because there is no way for me to just dump them and use solely armor. But I will not be happy with a penalty to my already strained cap just because an enemy blew through my shields on their way to my solid armor tank. Yes I saw you proposed giving Amarr ships a bonus to reactor stability. No, a "bonus" is not enough, I want penalty proof, because there is absolutely no reason to punish my maller or baddon for letting its useless shields peel away like useless little paint flakes. If you have penalty proof that kind of takes away the entire idea , HOWEVER , I guess there is a compromise. With Amarr ships , on lvl 5 of Reactor Stability. You can neglect the effect of power surge completely .
The point is that I neither want nor need my shields on an armor tanked ship, so why penalize me for them? The penalty isn't in response to a bonus, because I don't benefit from the shields. So don't penalize me. If the penalty only applied to the actual tank, it starts to make sense, but until then, get off my shard.
EDIT: In response to the post above me, my problem is fixed with the armor rig idea, but only if the function is added to the current armor rigs. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
662
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 17:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tul Breetai wrote:Ivy Romanova wrote:Tul Breetai wrote:Cool idea, but not gonna fly. I fly Amarr ships almost exclusively. The only reason I have shields is because there is no way for me to just dump them and use solely armor. But I will not be happy with a penalty to my already strained cap just because an enemy blew through my shields on their way to my solid armor tank. Yes I saw you proposed giving Amarr ships a bonus to reactor stability. No, a "bonus" is not enough, I want penalty proof, because there is absolutely no reason to punish my maller or baddon for letting its useless shields peel away like useless little paint flakes. If you have penalty proof that kind of takes away the entire idea , HOWEVER , I guess there is a compromise. With Amarr ships , on lvl 5 of Reactor Stability. You can neglect the effect of power surge completely . The point is that I neither want nor need my shields on an armor tanked ship, so why penalize me for them? The penalty isn't in response to a bonus, because I don't benefit from the shields. So don't penalize me. If the penalty only applied to the actual tank, it starts to make sense, but until then, get off my shard. EDIT: In response to the post above me, my problem is fixed with the armor rig idea, but only if the function is added to the current armor rigs.
Notice the armor rigs :D Well... it would be rather unfair , since the shield tankers will also face similar problems . Once their shields fail, they have ZERO tank left , and they'll be left dead in space . So no, I don't think it'll be fair if you can have the armor reimbursement effect on ALL rigs :P But we can have a specific one that focus on your armor tanking needs It is forbidden to kill. Therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire |
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