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AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
461
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Posted - 2012.12.23 12:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
This isn't due to hit screens in my A-O until January, so wondering if anyone has seen it and whether you'd recommend it to others?
And does it have annoying fake documentary camera movements like The Hurt Locker did?
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
1255
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Posted - 2012.12.23 13:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote: And does it have annoying fake documentary camera movements like The Hurt Locker did?
AK
Probably. It's winning all the cinematography awards so far, so there's probably lot's more techniques for you to find annoying. So does almost every war film now almost be it "Blackhawk Down" and even "Children of Men".
If you want your material shot straight and boring, watch made for TV versions of the same stories. They would apparently be more to your liking.
-á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
461
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Posted - 2012.12.23 14:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Probably. It's winning all the cinematography awards so far, so there's probably lot's more techniques for you to find annoying. So does almost every war film now almost be it "Blackhawk Down" and even "Children of Men".
If you want your material shot straight and boring, watch made for TV versions of the same stories. They would apparently be more to your liking.
Sorry, it breaks the fourth wall for me.
Please understand I'm not knocking The Hurt Locker in the slightest, but when a camera operator is artificially moving the camera in an attempt to make it look like a documentary or to make a scene more dramtic, I know that it's a camera and that standing right next to them is someone with a boom mic - I always end up wondering what they all had for lunch.
If a director were to frame and compose shots appropriate to the scene, it would not be necessary to convey tension or claustrophobia or just plain insanity born of situations that no person should ever see.
In addition to this, and I may have mentioned this before; no camera operator on a documentary would shake the camera around and be so inept at pulling focus, because they would lose their job.
You mention Blackhawk Down...they only (IIRC) shook the camera when there was action, and the rest of the movie had contemporary framing. Children of Men I believe was similar, the scene in the woods with Michael Caine and the Strawberry Coughs being an example.
So again: I apologise for not liking having the forth wall being broken, or in the case of faux camera movement; completely and utterly shattered.
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
1255
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Posted - 2012.12.23 15:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, on a certain level, the handheld camera is always going to break that 4th wall. That is the point. You are supposed to be aware there is a cameraman there. The public is not so naive about how film is made as in the past. And when relating a true story, as the" Hurt Locker" indeed is, it does give a more realistic feeling. Besides, this type of true story does not require an absolute 4th wall for suspension of desbelief, as say a science fiction film would.
Obvious handheld shots would absolutely not work in something like "The Hobbit". Too much documetary realism would break the suspension of belief by introducing way too much reality (as viewers of it in the 48 FPS format are unfortunately discovering). -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
461
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Posted - 2012.12.23 16:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Well, on a certain level, the handheld camera is always going to break that 4th wall. That is the point. You are supposed to be aware there is a cameraman there. The public is not so naive about how film is made as in the past. And when relating a true story, as the" Hurt Locker" indeed is, it does give a more realistic feeling. Besides, this type of true story does not require an absolute 4th wall for suspension of disbelief, as say a science fiction film would.
Obvious handheld shots would absolutely not work in something like "The Hobbit". Too much documentary realism would break the suspension of belief by introducing way too much reality (as viewers of it in the 48 FPS format are unfortunately discovering).
Using a hand-held camera is unnecessary is portray realism, that's what actors, framing, lighting, script, editing and direction is for.
It's a cheap and frankly overused gimmick. What makes it worse is when a camera operator is instructed to purposefully move a camera to 'make sure it looks like a documentary'. This completely unnecessary and forced camera movement adds nothing to a scene; it subtracts.
I simply refuse to give credit for intentionally reminding me that I'm watching something fake - this is contrary to movie making which is supposed to take me into a story, not eject me from it.
A film which is based on a true story should not feel the need to do this. Intelligent direction and cinematography should suffice.
BoT: no one seen this yet?
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
1256
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Posted - 2012.12.23 18:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote: Using a hand-held camera is unnecessary is portray realism, that's what actors, framing, lighting, script, editing and direction is for.
God help you never see Martin Scorcese's "Raging Bull" then. -á"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
500
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Posted - 2012.12.23 19:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:God help you never see Martin Scorcese's "Raging Bull" then.
...is only used for POV shots for the punches and counter-punches, ironically.
Care for another round?
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
1258
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Posted - 2012.12.23 19:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:God help you never see Martin Scorcese's "Raging Bull" then. ...is only used for POV shots for the punches and counter-punches, ironically. Care for another round? AK
Not really. We just have to agree to disagree. -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
501
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Posted - 2012.12.23 23:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Not really. We just have to agree to disagree.
Not arguing, Martin knew what to do with POV shots and how & when it is appropriate to use them.
IF you maintain that shaky camera work enhances realism, that is thin ice you walk on, so be prepared for the inevitable rebuttal, sir.
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
1275
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Posted - 2012.12.23 23:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Not really. We just have to agree to disagree. Not arguing, Martin knew what to do with POV shots and how & when it is appropriate to use them. IF you maintain that shaky camera work enhances realism, that is thin ice you walk on, so be prepared for the inevitable rebuttal, sir. AK
The special effects in the new BSG were deliberately made to look like documentary footage. Said so by effects guys in commentary. Sorry, but that did not make it suck. -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4806
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Posted - 2012.12.23 23:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote: Please understand I'm not knocking The Hurt Locker in the slightest
Well you should be, that movie was god awful "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
1275
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Posted - 2012.12.23 23:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:AlleyKat wrote: Please understand I'm not knocking The Hurt Locker in the slightest
Well you should be, that movie was god awful
My former alliance leader was a 25 year Green Beret who thought it was dead on accurate, as was "Blackhawk Down"....an event he was actually sent to as first response.
I'll trust his opinion over yours. -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4806
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Posted - 2012.12.23 23:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:AlleyKat wrote: Please understand I'm not knocking The Hurt Locker in the slightest
Well you should be, that movie was god awful My former alliance leader was a 25 year Green Beret who thought it was dead on accurate, as was "Blackhawk Down"....an event he was actually sent to as first response. I'll trust his opinion over yours.
I think you've been lied to "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
1275
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Posted - 2012.12.23 23:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:AlleyKat wrote: Please understand I'm not knocking The Hurt Locker in the slightest
Well you should be, that movie was god awful My former alliance leader was a 25 year Green Beret who thought it was dead on accurate, as was "Blackhawk Down"....an event he was actually sent to as first response. I'll trust his opinion over yours. I think you've been lied to
No. I've seen the pictures.....in person and not electronically.
But I do know you are just Trolling.
Pathetic. -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
504
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Posted - 2012.12.24 02:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:The special effects in the new BSG were deliberately made to look like documentary footage. Said so by effects guys in commentary. Sorry, but that did not make it suck.
That was more close ups and tracking shots than shaky-cam, besides they did use it sparingly and had the fortitude to only go nutz when there was an actual action scene. Plus they didn't use garbage fake focus-pulling and had lots of nice wide shots and establishing shots, so it gets a free hall pass.
I draw the line at using shaky-cam in the space shots though, that was a really bad choice, because it's not like they had a documentary camera operator floating in space.
The use of saturation was a little overdone, but it's sci-fi so I'll allow some stylistic choices to be hand-waved; especially the dream/alternate reality/cylon mothership moments with lots of bloom and high contrast - nothing wrong with that.
At least it had consistency and kept true to the style the went for, instead of having a different look for each season, or for each new director of a show, like Star Trek TNG did.
Some great episodes of TNG had lovely swooping camera movements and kept the rule of thirds and all the other tick boxes I would normally reserve for films, in check. Other episodes looks like they just didn't give a damn, and said 'screw it, we got the fan base, just get it done as fast as possible'.
Since I know you like Star Trek. Check out the camera work on TOS: Season One "The Balance of Terror"; absolutely stunning camera work for tv. It's got smooth pans, zooms, focus pulls, over-the-shoulder, great lighting and wonderful use of the original sets. If you recall it's also the one where the Romulans are introduced to the Star Trek universe for the first time, which makes it all the more significant.
Anyways...I guess no one has seen this film yet, so this is all just amusing banter for now.
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002. |
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