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Monty Tomasi
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Posted - 2005.05.27 03:40:00 -
[1]
The Galaxy's attention in the past few days has been focused on one man and the drug that he came up with that holds the key to curing the effects of the Vitoc drug. That man, Dr. Ullia Hnolku, was slain at 01:43 Eve time on the 27th of May.
Please see the following Eve Guardian exclusive news article that followed the events unfold step by step.
Yours,
Monty Tomasi Deputy Editor EveGuardian.net
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Graelyn
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Posted - 2005.05.27 03:43:00 -
[2]
May God have mercy upon his soul.
Minister - Public Affairs AEGIS MILITIA ATCR Forums |
Xav Vorbarra
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Posted - 2005.05.27 03:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Xav Vorbarra on 27/05/2005 03:58:50 Poor sod's probably better off dead, must've been a helluva week just past.
Wait...what if Dr. Hnolku had a clone?
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Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2005.05.27 04:00:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 27/05/2005 04:03:14 Good question... not that I really care. I expect it is either a low quality clone or in Caldari space, already under arrest.
I wonder why people get so excited about this Vitoc cure... its not like it will actually change anything at all.
Oh so the slaves minnies free will now be set free rather than die horrible deaths...
So the economy of the Minmatar republic will have to endure higher taxation to pay for thousands of vitoc cures... and then raise taxes to feed and train all the new homeless mouths.
So the Amarran holders will have to invest in more guards to keep slaves from leaving on their own... wait then again it will still be a crap shoot for that slave on whether or not he can make it to a cure or not.
Really this has been a whole lot of talking and fighting over a cure that wont really harm the Amarran Empire.
Nobiscum Deus! Ave Doriam II! |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.05.27 04:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri I wonder why people get so excited about this Vitoc cure... its not like it will actually change anything at all.
It will for the freed slaves that are addicted to Vitoc. It however will not bring down the Amarr Empire. --------------------------------------------------
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.05.27 04:11:00 -
[6]
I might add, when did the State authorise CAIN to assasinate the Doctor? Especially when you could have webbed and scrambled his pod, thus detaining him. Looks to me that CAIN are just another group of deluded killers like the Guristas. --------------------------------------------------
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Jes Salvatore
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Posted - 2005.05.27 04:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jes Salvatore on 27/05/2005 04:31:25 Edited by: Jes Salvatore on 27/05/2005 04:30:13 I was there before either CAIN or the ushra'khan appeared in the system. I must say that the CAIN incursion into Gallente space is an act of war. The Caldari and their lap dogs have no right to enter any other soveriegn nations borders using military force. This is a clear violation of the Yulai Convention.
The Eidilon Militia was called in to restore order within the Federation's border and were able to postpone the kidnapping of the good doctor until the ushra'khan arrived.
I would just like to express my condolences to the wife and family of Dr. Hnolku. And to the murderous CAIN, you will not get away with this trespass. ---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.05.27 04:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jes Salvatore I was there before either CAIN or the ushra'khan appeared in the system. I must say that the CAIN incursion into Gallente space is an act of war. The Caldari and their lap dogs have no right to enter any other soveriegn nations borders using military force. This is a clear violation of the Yulai Convention.
CAIN are not a part of the State military (no matter how much that bunch of washouts wish they where). Also it is not a violation of the Yulai Convention for military units to cross borders. It is a breach of the convention for them to dock at Naval stations. --------------------------------------------------
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Paladine Tor
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Posted - 2005.05.27 04:40:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Paladine Tor on 27/05/2005 04:42:09
Originally by: theRaptor I might add, when did the State authorise CAIN to assasinate the Doctor? Especially when you could have webbed and scrambled his pod, thus detaining him. Looks to me that CAIN are just another group of deluded killers like the Guristas.
Easier said than done. Did you try to get a lock on him? Apparently his ship was equipped with some advanced technology.
Besides, we gave him many chances to surrender himself but he refused. Having to kill one's own countryman is something no Caldari wants to do, but we were left with no other options - the law must be enforced.
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Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2005.05.27 04:46:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 27/05/2005 04:52:09 Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 27/05/2005 04:51:12 Also regardless of the morality of the Act, the only state that can actually complain is the Minmatar Republic... as the deed happened there.
I doubt the Caldari State will care what the Minnies think, as they already have disregarded them once on a true breach of the Yulai Convention.
edit: As for the webbing/scrambling issue... well considering they got themselves blown up by Concord for attacking him. I dont think they had any other option really, as CAIN was heavily outgunned by the Minmatar... any situation that would result in a chance to not deal with concord would have met the fire of a half dozen Tempests.
So as they saw their objective as the containment of this scientist, they must have seen little choice but his destruction.
edit2: stupid late night typos.
Nobiscum Deus! Ave Doriam II! |
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 07:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xav Vorbarra
Poor sod's probably better off dead, must've been a helluva week just past.
Wait...what if Dr. Hnolku had a clone?
He wasn't a pod pilot.
Anyway, good news. Let's hope the blood raiders don't work out how to reproduce The Cure ((lol, lil ooc humour there))
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Xav Vorbarra
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:22:00 -
[12]
Yet he tried to escape in a pod?
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:30:00 -
[13]
Who cares about the Amarrian Empire, you act as if that was the whole purpose of the doctors work.
You scum.
Our people is what matters to us, I couldnt care one iota for that corrupt Empire who will eventually be the cause of their own demise.
Our people. The people who are enslaved. The people you all seem to forget in the name of politics and galatic stability, hell, even isk.
You make me sick. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Xav Vorbarra Yet he tried to escape in a pod?
Can't let a little thing like that bother us.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Who cares about the Amarrian Empire, you act as if that was the whole purpose of the doctors work.
You scum.
Empire = slavery to most people. Even to your people. So, yeah, this IS kinda the point.
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Our people is what matters to us, I couldnt care one iota for that corrupt Empire who will eventually be the cause of their own demise.
Our people. The people who are enslaved. The people you all seem to forget in the name of politics and galatic stability, hell, even isk.
Shows you how much we care about you lot.
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino You make me sick.
I hope you feel better soon and stop vomiting on these here threads with your tiresome WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN! routines.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:41:00 -
[16]
Be silent Amarrian. Your presence on these boards is serves no purpose apart from the degredation of whomever you currently have your beady little eyes on.
I await the day you actually say something worth listening too.
Now go away and bother those that care for your opinions Amarrian. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 08:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Be silent Amarrian. Your presence on these boards is serves no purpose apart from the degredation of whomever you currently have your beady little eyes on.
You exist for my amusements.
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino I await the day you actually say something worth listening too.
Now go away and bother those that care for your opinions Amarrian.
You care enough about my opinions to want to hear them, insect.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Sforza
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:15:00 -
[18]
I would like to clarify I few matters.
Yes, the Doctor is dead, he died in Magicko to a CAIN pilot after he warped to a gate before I had instructed him to.
He was suffering from heavy blood loss after he was attacked in the station. The identity of the assailant is unknown. I also confirm that he was not a capsule pilot, and as well as being very inexperienced in space travel, he was also uncloned and therefore suffered "real death".
Ushra'Khan (supplemented by 2 valiant Star Fraction pilots)engaged and destroyed a Blood Raider fleet, including 6 Bhaalgorn battleships, in Amygnon as the Doctor made his escape from the station. A secondary Mordu's Legion fleet which attempted to blockade our route home was engaged and destroyed by Ushra'Khan reinforcements.
Sforza
CEO Vronsky Brothers and Sons
Council Member Ushra'Khan |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:20:00 -
[19]
sforza, confirm or deny the location of the antidote, please.
Not counting the one the Raiders have.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.05.27 09:24:00 -
[20]
Since when do we answer to you Amarrian? -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Since when do we answer to you Amarrian?
Who asked you anything, peon?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Cadela Fria
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:36:00 -
[22]
The death of the doctor, is to some, unfortunate, and good news for others. Regardless of this, I think it is inappropiate to start personal disputes, given that does not concern the overall topic.
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Horatio Starkiller
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:42:00 -
[23]
Think about all those hundreds of thousands of millions of slaves willing to tear out the throats of CAIN pilots... I wouldn't like to be in your pods right now. -----------
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Sforza
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:47:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Sforza on 27/05/2005 10:54:15
The Ushra'Khan is currently has in its possession the content from the doctors shuttle, that was destroyed by CAIN in the first engagement.
As the combat director of the U'K force which rallied to defend the doctor, I'd like to offer the alliances thanks to Carinae of Freelance Unincorporated whos quick thinking and quick actions retrieved the cargo.
We will be examining both the black box, and the "special delivery" the good doctor was carrying. Only when this analysis is complete will we be in a position to confirm or deny that we are holding a prototype of the doctors work.
Of course, we are in no position to speculate whether this is the only prototype, or whether a 2nd one is in possession of the Blood Raiders.
Sforza
CEO Vronsky Brothers and Sons
Council Member Ushra'Khan |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Horatio Starkiller Think about all those hundreds of thousands of millions of slaves willing to tear out the throats of CAIN pilots... I wouldn't like to be in your pods right now.
Fortunately they're slaves, and don't get out much.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 10:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sforza
Of course, we are in no position to speculate whether this is the only prototype, or whether a 2nd one is in possession of the Blood Raiders.
Thanks
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Majaraw Awalabas
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Posted - 2005.05.27 11:46:00 -
[27]
For years the R&D battle has been ongoing.
Finding one cure is at worst a minor inconvenience and nothing new.
Quote: For the past decades a fierce R&D battle has taken place between the Amarr Empire on one hand and the Minmatar Republic and the Gallente Federation on the other. The Amarrians are constantly upgrading and altering the toxic chemicals they use on the slaves, while the others are struggling to research and manufacture a permanent remedy. For many years this battle waxed and waned, with the Amarrians releasing a new version every few years, but the others managing to discover a remedy shortly thereafter.
But then, a little more than a decade ago, the Amarrians introduced a new and revolutionary toxic drug, which resembles a virus in many ways, and no cure has yet been found for it. This is mainly due to the erratic nature of the drug, which constantly changes its appearance and behavior on a regular basis. These changes seem to be either controlled, or at least predicted by the Amarrians, as they always seem to have the right antidote for their own use out in time before the toxin changes again. Thus, the Minmatars and the Gallenteans are constantly chasing a ghost - a toxic virus that shifts into something completely different just when they think theyĆve finally nailed it down.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 12:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Majaraw Awalabas For years the R&D battle has been ongoing.
Finding one cure is at worst a minor inconvenience and nothing new.
It's a mutagen binder. It renders the viral component harmless, and breaks the addiction to the drug that induces complience.
If I read the material correctly, this is a cure that's permanent as it actually removes the chemicals, rather then keeping them dormant, as all the antidotes so far have done.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Tansien
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Horatio Starkiller Think about all those hundreds of thousands of millions of slaves willing to tear out the throats of CAIN pilots... I wouldn't like to be in your pods right now.
They only did their job, if you'd done YOUR job better the good doctor might actually have helped you.
I did say before that you'd fail, seems i was right. |
Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:36:00 -
[30]
Good riddance.
May he burn in eternity. ----------------------------------------------
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Morimo Gariushi
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Posted - 2005.05.27 14:48:00 -
[31]
Discord's right, thats the whole reason why this cure is so important..
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Gaven Lok'ri
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Posted - 2005.05.27 15:07:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 27/05/2005 15:21:13 Well I see my error in understanding this substance. So ignore what was here before.
That said, from the sounds of what this does to combat Vitoc, its results will almost definitely be WORSE than Vitoc withdrawal would be already. So I hope the minmatar do use it on their slaves offering them their false 'freedom', as those slaves will then die horrible deaths as this fools elixer shows its true face, and destroys quite a bit more of the body than just the Vitoc.
Nobiscum Deus! Ave Doriam II! |
Andre Ricard
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Posted - 2005.05.27 16:27:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Andre Ricard on 27/05/2005 16:28:25
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Jes Salvatore I was there before either CAIN or the ushra'khan appeared in the system. I must say that the CAIN incursion into Gallente space is an act of war. The Caldari and their lap dogs have no right to enter any other soveriegn nations borders using military force. This is a clear violation of the Yulai Convention.
CAIN are not a part of the State military (no matter how much that bunch of washouts wish they where). Also it is not a violation of the Yulai Convention for military units to cross borders. It is a breach of the convention for them to dock at Naval stations.
The Independent Naval Reserve was basically given carte blanche by a senior Caldari Navy official to hunt down the doctor in the name of the State. (Linkage)
The Doctor sought refuge in Gallente space, and was forced from the station by a Caldari military unit with the endorsement of their government. If that doesn't constitute an act of war, I don't know what does.
We're lucky, in a way, that it didn't get even uglier than it did. The entire Human Sphere, sans the Jovians, could have been drawn into a war by this one incident. Even as it stands tensions will be at the boiling point now that the Yulai conventions have been blasted apart by particle weapons.
I do wish I had been there to help the doctor reach his destination. I'll do everything in my own power - regardless of help from the rest of the Militia - to save his wife from torture and death.
And I don't mean at the hands of the Blood Raiders. Although they'll die in droves as well. --- Justice is the only thing I have left. The lives of thousands be damned. |
Van Cleef
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Posted - 2005.05.27 17:41:00 -
[34]
Why is it that I don't hear this huge outcry about the Huge Minmatar Fleet that "violated" Gallente space. If I remember correctly as well, it was the U'K that fired on a CAIN ship first in Gallente space which brought down Concord, and it was also a UK ship that attacked a CAIN pilots pod in Gallente space - the only destruction of a pod IN Gallente space.
Also, did the Eidoln Militia stop at the Gallente border, or did it continue with the UK fleet into Minmatar space - thus Violating THEIR borders.
Spin this how you want, the fact was that the Gallente's willingly housed a criminal of the Caldari State. That Criminal has been brought to justice. ------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 20:13:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Discorporation on 27/05/2005 20:19:36
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 27/05/2005 15:21:13 That said, from the sounds of what this does to combat Vitoc, its results will almost definitely be WORSE than Vitoc withdrawal would be already. So I hope the minmatar do use it on their slaves offering them their false 'freedom', as those slaves will then die horrible deaths as this fools elixer shows its true face, and destroys quite a bit more of the body than just the Vitoc.
Those reports are probably fabrications
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Seto Mazzarotto
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Posted - 2005.05.27 20:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Discorporation
Vitoc is a chemical that the antidote keeps dormant. Mr. Hnolku's cure REMOVES this chemical.
Vitoc withdrawel occurs when the antidote that keeps the chemical dormant is withhold. Without the chemical in a persons' system, there is nothing to worry about. There is NO death, NO pain if the chemical/virus is REMOVED.
You should have understood. Now I know the reasons for your inaction.
'S not pretty.
Ouch. ----------- Fighting for the ideals of freespace, posthuman ethics, and rock & roll. |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.27 20:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Seto Mazzarotto
Originally by: Discorporation
Vitoc is a chemical that the antidote keeps dormant. Mr. Hnolku's cure REMOVES this chemical.
Vitoc withdrawel occurs when the antidote that keeps the chemical dormant is withhold. Without the chemical in a persons' system, there is nothing to worry about. There is NO death, NO pain if the chemical/virus is REMOVED.
You should have understood. Now I know the reasons for your inaction.
'S not pretty.
Ouch.
I actually removed that, I misunderstood what Mr. Lokri was saying.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Tansien
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Posted - 2005.05.27 20:35:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Tansien on 27/05/2005 20:36:59
Originally by: Andre Ricard Edited by: Andre Ricard on 27/05/2005 16:28:25The Independent Naval Reserve was basically given carte blanche by a senior Caldari Navy official to hunt down the doctor in the name of the State. (Linkage)
The Doctor sought refuge in Gallente space, and was forced from the station by a Caldari military unit with the endorsement of their government. If that doesn't constitute an act of war, I don't know what does.
Well the citizen in question was not gallentian, and last time i checked a nation has a right to police it's own citizens, so no it was no way near an act of war, unless the gallentians had specifically said that he was under their protection, which they dident.
And would the gallentians had put him under their protection it's more of an act of war from their side anyways. |
Seto Mazzarotto
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Posted - 2005.05.27 20:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Van Cleef Spin this how you want, the fact was that the Gallente's willingly housed a criminal of the Caldari State. That Criminal has been brought to justice.
Look at the old Drink Starsi alumni. Jera, to be specific.
You want to talk about criminals? She didn't get shoot-on-sight status from Federation Navy patrols by anchoring cans and spouting the old State rhetoric, you know.
Originally by: Discorporation
I actually removed that, I misunderstood what Mr. Lokri was saying.
I interpreted it both ways it could've been taken. It's still funny. ----------- Fighting for the ideals of freespace, posthuman ethics, and rock & roll. |
Richard Steele
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Posted - 2005.05.27 23:59:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Van Cleef Why is it that I don't hear this huge outcry about the Huge Minmatar Fleet that "violated" Gallente space. If I remember correctly as well, it was the U'K that fired on a CAIN ship first in Gallente space which brought down Concord, and it was also a UK ship that attacked a CAIN pilots pod in Gallente space - the only destruction of a pod IN Gallente space.
Also, did the Eidoln Militia stop at the Gallente border, or did it continue with the UK fleet into Minmatar space - thus Violating THEIR borders.
Spin this how you want, the fact was that the Gallente's willingly housed a criminal of the Caldari State. That Criminal has been brought to justice.
I clearly indicated that your entry into Federation space was not an issue, but your assault on a civilian in our space IS an issue. Your actions in the Amygnon system have forced me to contact the Attorney General to have CAIN brought up on charges.
One of days we'll get it through those thick layers of skull that you cannot simply charge across the Federation border, plant a flag and pretend that your laws, your arrogance, and your issues with your citizens actually mean anything here beyond what we grant you through proper channels.
Now, to answer your questions; no, Militia forces never left Federation space. Once it became clear that the UK were escorting the Doctor into Minmatar space and they crossed over into Yulai all Militia vessels withdrew. You see, we actually make it a point to follow our own rules.
As for why I didn't handle the UK the same way I handled CAIN, it's because they were a great deal more polite. If you recall I did warn them to avoid weaponsfire if they didn't want our nearby Navy ships to respond in kind. They also weren't tossing threats around like they were going out of style, so I gave them a bit more leeway. The first shot fired was in fact a weapons malfunction, I have no data on the UK firing on CAIN first nor of a pod being destroyed. If it occured during the battle with the Blood Raiders we were occupied dealing with them at the time.
Indeed, spin this however you like, the fact is that the Caldari just risked open war to practice their twisted brand of justice. The death sentence for the crime of theft... I think I'm going to be sick.
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Van Cleef
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Posted - 2005.05.28 00:46:00 -
[41]
Calm your ego there sir, I was not directing all my comments to you or your organization.
However, since you have stated your points, he are some of the facts that you should consider. The first assault took place on a CAIN pilot when a UK attacked him with torpedos and guns. Concord intervened and the Tempest was set a blaze. Im sure in your dicussion with the Gallente Attorney General you also mentioned the unsanctioned and unauthorized attack on us by the UK, correct?
As far their manners, manners do not matter when you are enforcing the law. Are you saying that you selectively enforce the law based on the offenders manners? That is ridiculous. You can break the law, but if your nice about it, then your organization looks the other way?
And you have the nerve to comment on other peoples perceived lack of intelligence.
When the UK opened fire on my team mate, I saw no intervention on your part in your own space.
The intentional targeting and destruction of a pod is not a weapons malfunction. I doubt your foolish enough to believe that which means you must be a Minmatar lap dog spewing forth their verison of the events.
This wasn't a theft - this was treason.
We all have to abide by rules. Our nations are not in a state of war and respect each other. It was very clear that the Doctor was a wanted man - and had you done your job and took him into custody this would have never happened.
------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
Helpdesk
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Posted - 2005.05.28 00:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Richard Steele
I clearly indicated that your entry into Federation space was not an issue, but your assault on a civilian in our space IS an issue. Your actions in the Amygnon system have forced me to contact the Attorney General to have CAIN brought up on charges.
One of days we'll get it through those thick layers of skull that you cannot simply charge across the Federation border, plant a flag and pretend that your laws, your arrogance, and your issues with your citizens actually mean anything here beyond what we grant you through proper channels.
Now, to answer your questions; no, Militia forces never left Federation space. Once it became clear that the UK were escorting the Doctor into Minmatar space and they crossed over into Yulai all Militia vessels withdrew. You see, we actually make it a point to follow our own rules.
As for why I didn't handle the UK the same way I handled CAIN, it's because they were a great deal more polite. If you recall I did warn them to avoid weaponsfire if they didn't want our nearby Navy ships to respond in kind. They also weren't tossing threats around like they were going out of style, so I gave them a bit more leeway.
I just read the logs again: We didn't threaten the U'K. We just stated that we would kill Hnolku if he did not co÷perate. He choosed not to and got what we promised him, death. We also said that we would ignore interference from any other party, including the Eidolon Militia, Coreli Corporation,Ushra'Khan or even CONCORD.
It could be that we sounded a little angry. After all, we were attacked in CONCORD-protected space by your allies.
I did notice one thing though: [ 2005.05.26 23:23:02 ] Viqer Fell > well tbh i trained a lot of em to break the law so....
Interesting, Viqer Fell just admitted that he trains terrorists. Not suprising, but nice to hear from their own side.
Originally by: Richard Steele The first shot fired was in fact a weapons malfunction, I have no data on the UK firing on CAIN first nor of a pod being destroyed. If it occured during the battle with the Blood Raiders we were occupied dealing with them at the time.
Ah yes... we had some weapon malfunctions in the direction of doctor Hnolku ourself as well. Most unfortunate. Be realistic. Also, did also count for the second shot? The U'K attacked a Scorpion from our side with his Tempest. You also fail to remember our that the U'K destroyed the POD of one of our pilots, perhaps the killmail will refresh your memory.
Originally by: CONCORD 2005.05.27 00:03:00
Victim: Alliance: Unknown Corporation: Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Destroyed Type: Capsule Solar System: Amygnon System Security Level: 0.6
Involved parties:
Name: Hellcore (laid the final blow) Security Status: -1.0 Alliance: Ushra'Khan Corporation: RCS Assault Squad Ship Type: Jaguar Weapon Type: 280mm Howitzer Artillery II
Name: Camar Security Status: 3.1 Alliance: Ushra'Khan Corporation: Amarr Will Eat Itself Ship Type: Muninn Weapon Type: Unknown
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Klaus Fleischer
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Posted - 2005.05.28 00:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Richard Steele Indeed, spin this however you like, the fact is that the Caldari just risked open war to practice their twisted brand of justice. The death sentence for the crime of theft... I think I'm going to be sick.
Ullia's actions went well above the simple crime of theft. I'll list them for you and explain each one.
- Absense without proper notification and clearance This misdemenor results in a consoling statement and suspended pay for 14 days.
- Conspiracy to commit theft of corporate property This crime results in immediete employment termination.
- Theft of corporate property This crime results in a warrant for arrest and 5 years in prison.
- Resisting lawful arrest This crime results in an additional 5 years in prison.
- Conspiracy to collaborate with foreign states and nationals This crime results in a warrant for arrest and 30 years in prison.
- Collaboration with foreign states and nationals This crime results in a warrant for arrest and 60 years in prison.
- Compromising corporate security This misdemenor results in negitive Caldari Security Index modification and 30 days of suspended pay.
- Compromising Caldari State national security This crime results in a warrent for arrest and 50 years in prison.
- Conspiracy against the Caldari State This crime results in a warrent for arrest, public enemy list position, and is usually sentanced to death.
As you can see, it wasn't just petty theft.
At the minimum, he would have been sentanced to about 150 years in prison had he been caught and not been cooperative. At the most, he would have been executed. _
Join Ingame Channel: CAINCOM |
Majaraw Awalabas
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Posted - 2005.05.28 01:18:00 -
[44]
Discorporation is an atheist and a renegade son of the Empire.
He also seems incredibly gullible, taking at face value the claims of a scientist who has so far not offered any proof or clues about his work.
While not being a man of science I also don't fit anything to my vessel unless I can confirm for myself the attributes of the modules I was sold.
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Richard Steele
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Posted - 2005.05.28 03:52:00 -
[45]
I never said the malfunction involved one of your ships. I rechecked the log, the weapon malfunction I recalled was directed at a cargo container, not a pod. After that there were a couple of points where CONCORD intervened on incidents I didn't witness because I was on the comms trying to smooth things over with several people at once. I don't see any mention of specifics though... curious, no one said anything about it at the time. All I remember was I looked up and saw weapons fire, it was over before I could see who was shooting who. But to answer your questions, no, I don't intend to let this slide with the UK.
And, no, of course manners don't have any bearing on enforcing the law. I didn't say anything about enforcing law because they hadn't broken any laws at that point, they had just warped in. What I said was, that's how I handled them (dealt with them, parlayed with them, you getting this yet??). I also gave them the same warning I gave you:
[ 2005.05.26 23:09:52 ] Richard Steele > I understand Prakhgoth, but I'm afraid there can be no exceptions [ 2005.05.26 23:10:55 ] Richard Steele > if there is weaponsfire we will be forced to assist the Navy and CONCORD to restore order
When the Blood Raiders showed up I was focused on them. If there were any hostilities with you two at that moment I definately wouldn't have seen it.
Klaus, I'm no lawyer but those last two charges are more than a little overblown
- Compromising Caldari State national security - Conspiracy against the Caldari State
Even on some of the other charges I doubt your ability to prove it, but the above are simply absurd. I know your entire "State" is little more that corporations within corporations, and I can plainly see that corporate espionage was very likely involved here, but you have to draw the line somewhere. If employees steal a few office supplies do you call that "Conspiracy against the Caldari State" too? Do you execute the pen-snatchers?
Doesn't really matter, none of your arguments excuse your actions in Amygnon. As usual you have redirected the argument away from yourselves because you know you can't win if forced to actually stay on the topic at hand.
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Snyper Kitten
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Posted - 2005.05.28 04:29:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Snyper Kitten on 28/05/2005 04:40:53 Since when has CAIN been empowered to enforce any laws? At what time was it "officially" announced by the CEP that the Dr. was a Caldari criminal? <mighta missed it tho> I might point out that the rumors of the Dr. having a clone are more factual than rumors probably since he was in a pod AND I assure you there was more than one copy of the cure -------------------- You thought you saw a putty tat? |
Narciss Sevar
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Posted - 2005.05.28 09:19:00 -
[47]
I think the factt that Concord didn't engage pilots who attacked the Hnolku's shuttle, and only attacked pod pilots that attacked each other when not in a offically sactioned war, proves he was a criminal on the run from the State.
~NS~ |
Vicarrah
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Posted - 2005.05.28 10:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Helpdesk
I did notice one thing though: [ 2005.05.26 23:23:02 ] Viqer Fell > well tbh i trained a lot of em to break the law so....
Interesting, Viqer Fell just admitted that he trains terrorists. Not suprising, but nice to hear from their own side.
Viqer Fell has been killing Amarrians since you were in nappies urchin. He's been wanted for "Terrorist" crimes longer than you've been a twinkle in your daddy's pigopolist eye.
I've got another couple of quotes for you, they're old ones, so I can't verify their accuracy, but mark my words murderers, you are marked men.
Originally by: Unnamed Tahiri Document
"And Cain slew Abel, And God was wroth and dispossessed Cain, sending him into the wilderness"
Originally by: Unnamed Tahiri Document
"And Cain begat Lamech, and Lamech was wroth that his God given freedom was constrained by flesh" "Lamech slew all those that stood in his way"
Vicarrah Tahiri Protector |
Yuki Li
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Posted - 2005.05.28 11:39:00 -
[49]
It's about time, excellent work to those involved.
I was beginning to think i'd have to do it myself.
[ 2004.07.31 17:31:00 ] (combat) Gallente Police Major strikes you perfectly, wrecking for 427.9 damage.
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Zibun Ionic
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Posted - 2005.05.28 12:01:00 -
[50]
It seems that poor doctor didn't knew better whom to turn to be saved from certain death. He surely could've negociated his wife out of eternal torment of Blood Covenant.
Hopefully UK has the prototype and are capable of using it for good. Otherwise I am deeply disappointed on their recent actions.
forgive our sins that we are about to commit |
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Dev Larren
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Posted - 2005.05.28 12:05:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Horatio Starkiller Think about all those hundreds of thousands of millions of slaves willing to tear out the throats of CAIN pilots... I wouldn't like to be in your pods right now.
The issue for us was dealing with a rogue Caldari citizen. Slavery is illegal in our state and I support that position.
As for the feeling of slaves towards me I will ask the opinion of the many former slaves with whom I am aquainted who now lead free lives because I rescued them.
Commanding Officer Channel: CAINCOM |
Mitsuko Hoth
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Posted - 2005.05.28 12:06:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Mitsuko Hoth on 28/05/2005 12:06:09 I would like to ekstend my congratulations to all involved.
I would also like to urge every one involved to keep up their vigilance and rescue Eckarine Hnolku.
Our calculations are proving to be more correct then we predicted.
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Soratah
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Posted - 2005.05.28 12:08:00 -
[53]
Considering the success and confirmed destruction that CAIN achieved against the late Doctor during his flight. This "cure" for vitoc died with him.
To be honest though, despite people's claims to having "copies" of this wonder drug. Nobody has examined the Blood Raider involvement in this whole wretched affair. It is very likely that this "cure" is actually some kind of biological agent that breaks down the haemetology of it's victims. Of course this is conjecture. But before everyone declares this as some new salvation wonder drug it should be thoroughly examined.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.05.28 13:01:00 -
[54]
Edited by: theRaptor on 28/05/2005 15:38:12
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer - Collaboration with foreign states and nationals This crime results in a warrant for arrest and 60 years in prison.
A fictitious crime. Many Caldari collaborate daily with foreign nationals. Collaborating to commit treason is a crime, but you cover that later.
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer - Compromising corporate security This misdemenor results in negitive Caldari Security Index modification and 30 days of suspended pay.
Yes when will the head of security of Zainou be brought up on charges? They where out smarted by a mere scientist after all. God knows how many times they have let trained infiltrators slip by.
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer - Compromising Caldari State national security This crime results in a warrent for arrest and 50 years in prison.
Again I believe that was Zainou not giving the investigating authorities the whole story straight away. If they had then the Doctor might have been caught at an early stage. And the politically damaging story about the Vitoc cure would never have reached the media.
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer - Conspiracy against the Caldari State This crime results in a warrent for arrest, public enemy list position, and is usually sentanced to death.
How? A Vitoc cure would be a good thing for the state. Trans-cranial micro controllers would be in high demand, until a new disease was made.
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer At the minimum, he would have been sentanced to about 150 years in prison had he been caught and not been cooperative. At the most, he would have been executed.
Had he been found guilty by a court of law. Something which you are not.
But if you are so deluded into thinking that you are, then please clean the pirate infestation from Aunenen. The Navy is incapable of doing so, and you CAIN chaps do so love to fill in for them.
P.S. Isnt it amazing how something which would mean vast profits for Ishukone, but is so politically damaging, is "accidentally" released. Oh they did their best of course. Now would you Amarr care for some of our trans-cranial micro controllers? Now that silly vitoc doesnt work.
Doctor I hope you enjoy your new identity and retirement. --------------------------------------------------
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Klaus Fleischer
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Posted - 2005.05.28 14:49:00 -
[55]
Quote: How? A Vitoc cure would be a good thing for the state. Trans-cranial micro controllers would be in high demand, until a new disease was made.
We are not business fat cats, Rap.
We are soldiers.
If the State felt that Ullia's actions were in their best interest, perhaps they would have made it more perfectly clear to us. _
Join Ingame Channel: CAINCOM |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.05.28 15:45:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer We are not business fat cats, Rap.
I would ask you to not address me with unwarranted familiarity Fleischer.
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer
We are soldiers.
If the State felt that Ullia's actions were in their best interest, perhaps they would have made it more perfectly clear to us.
It does not serve the State to make their intentions clear in matters such as this. Covert actions allow them to save face, while still gaining maximum profit. --------------------------------------------------
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2005.05.28 22:12:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer Ullia's actions went well above the simple crime of theft. I'll list them for you and explain each one.
[long list of criminal charges follow]
The thing that continues to strike me about this case is that he was not, in fact, ever tried. Not even in absentia. He was charged with criminal acts, but that is all. If he were, in fact, found guilty of these charges, don't you think the Caldari State could have brought him to justice themselves? Without resorting to calling in a flock of overly-trigger-happy vigilantes? If the Caldari State had found him guilty, and if they had (for some unknown reason - lack of manpower perhaps?) given CAIN the mandate to bring him in dead or alive, don't you think they would have filed the proper paperwork to allow CAIN to do this without suffering CONCORD intervention?
This whole think stinks of illegal vigilantism to me.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Xav Vorbarra
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Posted - 2005.05.28 23:56:00 -
[58]
The simple thing is, who cares? The State had the Ishukone Watch hunting for Hnolku. Everyone keeps saying the State didn't want him. What are you blind!? Read the damn news posts. The State would hardly punish those who help it.
An Admiral within the Caldari Navy even thanked them for their services. There, that puts out the vigilante conspiricy theory.
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Majaraw Awalabas
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Posted - 2005.05.28 23:57:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi This whole think stinks of illegal vigilantism to me.
I'm surprised to see a member of Star Fraction acknowledge the Empires and their laws as a higher authority.
I was under the impression that vigilantism was exactly what Star Fraction promoted.
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2005.05.29 03:05:00 -
[60]
Xav: If Hnolku carried a sentence of death from the state, why didn't they carry it out? I'm still waiting for more than just two corporations saying "this is that".
And Majaraw: I endorse illegal vigilantism, not CAIN. If I decry vigilantism, that makes me a hypocrite. That is not what I am doing, though, so it does not make me such. However, if someone else who does decry vigilantism, who does support the rule of law engages in vigilantism, then they are a hypocrite.
You're following this, right?
Now here's the kicker. If someone acts as a hypocrite and I point this out, [i]even if their actions would not constitute hypocracy were I do perform them because of my own views[i], that does not make me a hypocrite either.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
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Xav Vorbarra
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Posted - 2005.05.29 03:36:00 -
[61]
You can see that the State doesn't care because they havn't done anything. I'm sure if they were really unhappy with CAIN they'd call the Navy out to blast them.
I think everyone just needs to relise Ullia is dead and that there are more important things than a frozen corpse right now.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.29 09:21:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Majaraw Awalabas
He also seems incredibly gullible, taking at face value the claims of a scientist who has so far not offered any proof or clues about his work.
Choose to believe what you want, Mr. Awalabas. When billions of slaves rebel and cause countless trillions of isks in damage, not to mention millions of Amarrian deaths, I'll be glad to accept your apologies.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.05.30 03:13:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Xav Vorbarra You can see that the State doesn't care because they havn't done anything. I'm sure if they were really unhappy with CAIN they'd call the Navy out to blast them.
Hardly. The Navy can't even keep The Lonetrek corridor free from Guristas. That groups like CAIN exist is damning evidence on how the State has neutered the Navy in favour of corporate police forces.
Originally by: Xav Vorbarra I think everyone just needs to relise Ullia is dead and that there are more important things than a frozen corpse right now.
Yes, like making sure that he is not made a scape goat for the incompetence and malice of his parent company. --------------------------------------------------
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.05.30 03:17:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Majaraw Awalabas
Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi This whole think stinks of illegal vigilantism to me.
I'm surprised to see a member of Star Fraction acknowledge the Empires and their laws as a higher authority.
I was under the impression that vigilantism was exactly what Star Fraction promoted.
We don't claim to serve the empires, and thus it is perfectly acceptable for us to point out the hypocracy of those who do. If CAIN or CVA want to claim they are carrying out the will of the State in a legal manner, then they have to do just that. --------------------------------------------------
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Xav Vorbarra
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Posted - 2005.05.30 04:35:00 -
[65]
Actually, I meant his wife and how the Vitoc cure will be used. Not some legal red tape thick folder myth that nobody actually cares about pardoning or damning Dr. Ullia Hnolku
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Icarus Starkiller
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Posted - 2005.05.30 05:18:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Klaus Fleischer "It was unfortunate, but nessecary a sad day for the Caldari State but may this serve as an example for those who wish to go against the will of the State as loyalty is forever to break it, means death as a promise I made to Ullia before he died. Now, to honor my word to him, in a past conversation, CAIN pledges to seek out his wife and rescue her from the Blood Raider Covenant we will not sit idly by as a Caldari citizen is oppressed."
Unfortunately you do not seem to realize that there are Caldari 'citizens' being oppressed every day. If not by some compassionless megacorporation then by the Amarr who hold their leashes. There are Caldari slaves in Amarr space, and in Caldari space as well on unclassed worlds or in the holds of both mercantile and pod piloted vessels. Not as many, perhaps, as there are Matari who can count entire generations enslaved, but there they are nonetheless.
CAIN and the Caldari should not speak with such hypocracy after participating in the single most devastating event to Freedom in centuries. Any drug that can, could, or even hints at some ability to sever the dependance of slaves on the Amarr slave syrum offers liberation, and returns the god-given freedom to Choose to the mortals that God offered that gift to in the first days. CAIN, by the actions of destroying rather than forcibly detaining the doctor (and by such action destroying the most available source of this new benefaction), have stated their stance in the struggle for Liberty. They stand for slavery alongside the Amarr.
How long before the megacorporations that control Caldari declare slavery legal within Caldari space, and not merely an overlooked illegality?
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.05.30 07:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
CAIN and the Caldari should not speak with such hypocracy after participating in the single most devastating event to Freedom in centuries. Any drug that can, could, or even hints at some ability to sever the dependance of slaves on the Amarr slave syrum offers liberation, and returns the god-given freedom to Choose to the mortals that God offered that gift to in the first days.
Ummm, Eckarine Hnolku most likely has another sample of the stuff, if Omir Sarikusa spoke the truth (and he has no reason not to).
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
CAIN, by the actions of destroying rather than forcibly detaining the doctor (and by such action destroying the most available source of this new benefaction), have stated their stance in the struggle for Liberty. They stand for slavery alongside the Amarr.
So, you missed the part where they offered Mr. Hnolku safe passage as well as the part where they want to liberate Mrs. Hnolku...
Regardless of the differences of opinion, it's better if CAIN and the minmatar rebels work together. CAIN to liberate Mrs. Hnolku and the Minnies to retrieve the sample
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
How long before the megacorporations that control Caldari declare slavery legal within Caldari space, and not merely an overlooked illegality?
They can't, the CONCORD pact prohibits them from it
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Steiner
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Posted - 2005.05.30 10:07:00 -
[68]
This is funny, I thought everyone knew that "The State" is compoced of 8 mega-corpoations and they dont mind handing out some "dirty work" to the sub-corporations so they dont have to intervine them selfes, thus saving "face".
CAIN has done its job to the State, they did what the other 8 wouldnt do because they are to big political entity and would cause much troble so they all welcome help from loyal state workers.
Good Job CAIN, I assume the State is happy with your responces since the admiral congratulaited you.
For the others, there is nothing you can do to bring them down, job is a job and has to be done thats the law of the State. You might have to read more on how our State works before you comment too much on its actions.
-Seiner
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Van Cleef
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Posted - 2005.05.30 10:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
Unfortunately you do not seem to realize that there are Caldari 'citizens' being oppressed every day. There are Caldari slaves in Amarr space, and in Caldari space as well on unclassed worlds or in the holds of both mercantile and pod piloted vessels....
That is true. There are Caldari Citizens that are currently being held as slaves. As Slavery is ILLEGAL in Caldari space, and slaves that are encountered are rescued and freed. The Slaver is either fined or destroyed when caught with these items.
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
CAIN and the Caldari should not speak with such hypocracy after participating in the single most devastating event to Freedom in centuries.
Your Rhetoric is interferring with your reasoning. We did not cause this event. The good Doctor you hold with such reverence STOLE the sample from Ishukone and then fled with it. If you think that your Alliance, or ANY Alliance for that matter can better research and then distribute the cure than the MEGACORP Ishukone, then you are dillusional. CAIN and the State wanted the Doctor and the sample back so that further research could be conducted to make it into the wonder drug that we all hoped it could be. However, in reality what the Doctor possessed could also be the most deadly bioweapon in existance. When the Doctor fled it was a priority to get him back so that the item COULD be used for good, and to ensure that a radical group didn't use it for harm. CAIN went to seek the Doctor for that purpose, realizing what he had could either be a super cure, or a super weapon. It needed to be retrieved so that it could be used for good.
In your organizations misguided attempt and knee jerk hopefullness, you aided a dillusional and unstable man, prevented the item from being returned to the State for manufacture and release. You DON'T know what the Doctors TRUE motives were.
Remember this, history books in the future will tell that it was the actions of the Ushra'Khan, however misguided, that directly resulted in the Galaxies most single best chance for the cure for the Plague of Vitoc would be found.
Quote:
They stand for slavery alongside the Amarr.
I stand for my people. If you guys really stood for yours you would have made it a priority for the Doctor to be escorted home - not wisked away for him to do his own misguided attempt at his TRUE cure for slavery - death.
Congradulations. ------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
Carinae
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Posted - 2005.05.30 17:53:00 -
[70]
Has it been considered that both samples need to be combined to make the cure?
Warrior of the Ushra'Khan Death to slavery |
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