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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Tairon Usaro
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.06 19:58:00 -
[601] - Quote
I think in 2007 as the response to the trust crisis CCP did something quite revolutionary with implementing the CSM as an external auditor for corporate governance ensuring the nonpartisan role of gamemasters and developers. Today, this is not the sole role of CSM but it was the trigger for it (to my perception).
i would say today something similar revolutionary would be appriopriate to improve the relationship with the community. As of today i see strong deficiencies in game design. Therefore i would suggest a project involving the whole community into game design. Reversing the current situation where CCP uses CSM as sparring partner for game design. I would like to see the community in the driver seat and CCP as advisor, work horse and sparring partner. Of course such program cannot be applied to all aspects of the game. But maybe for a smaller issue and not yet implemented new game asspect or for some mega problem CCP has tried to address serveral times but failed in solving it.
Personally i think of Sov mechanics as such a perfect example where CCP tried and tried harder and tried hardest ... and still failed in solving the problem. i would say CCP had made good experiences with the guys who helped coding the first web browser or the fan based translation project .
Why not give the game design amateurs a try ?
How about a process * where the concept ideas come from the comunity * are commented & analyzed in terms of intrinsic balance, overall game balance and technical feasablity by CCP * refined by the community to form 2-5 proposals that meet CCP standards for game design proposals * voting for the best proposal * implemetation by CCP * testing (even alpha testing) by community
i know its not really compatible with SCRUM development, but hey, did you have that process when you guys were really perceived as the kick ass creative MMO company ?!?! |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
2
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Posted - 2011.10.06 20:13:00 -
[602] - Quote
Ealier this evening I had decided to let this account expire too due to, well, you all know what happened lately.
Thanks to Hilmar's dev blog I'm reconsidering again, as this might be a return to the old ways of CCP caring for EVE.
Thanks for writing this. |
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.06 20:31:00 -
[603] - Quote
Good now start fixing things, action speaks louder then words
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Ztrain
Viziam Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.10.06 20:32:00 -
[604] - Quote
BlinSky wrote:The new Starwars game is gonna be crap.
RIP EVE
That may indeed be ture and the new Starwars may very well be crap. But we will see. But at this time the big benefit that it has is that it not being developed by CCP. I will never even try their Vampire game nor Dust just because of how they have delt with EVE. I have in other games actively dissuaded people from trying EVE by simply describing how it currently is. I am more then happy head off and save people from more work in their leisure time.
Like you mentioned that only fun in EVE is PvP. The changes they have made creates way way way more work to have to try and maintain that PvP. When I am not at work and I have down time to play I have a choice. I can sit down with the following choices.
WoW: 1. Que for a Random Battleground go stomp some face of people who probably suck. But only for maybe an hour or so. 2. Head out for some world PvP griefing (available on PvP server, think Nullsec for the entire game.) Depending on what is found that day could be hours of fun or 15-30 minutes of boredom. 3. PvE raiding which is not for me. I consider this to be like work in EVE. Raids become and exercise in who is going to Fup this encounter this time. 4. See if friends are on or since I'm on a PvP server see if there are any good rated Battleground groups going. This can provide several hours of fun. 5. If just don't feel like messing with anything can run some quests (solo PvE) for cash or whatever.
EVE: 1. Login and Mine (PvE content stare at laser beams hitting non moving targets and then draging those piles to a hauler) hmmm this is more like work to me. 2. Run Level 4 missions (PvE shoot the exact same spawns over and over again) personally almost but not quite as boring as mining. 3. Run Sanctums (PvE shoot the same spawns over and over again) almost like the above however scanned out in 0.0 but from what I am told this used to be available in any upgraded system a year ago is no longer as available depending on true sec status. So that has become rarer but still a bore. 4. Run logistics for corp. Not fun have to drag stuff around empire or out to 0.0 Can be PvE or PvP but generally just work that needs to be done and can potentially take up hours with no entertainment. 5. Sov Warfare (PvP blob) generally sit in a large fleet and wait. and wait then hurry up and jump and wait and wait and then engage and then wait in lag. So much fun......... Requires 1-4 first to happen. 6. Roaming fleet. pretty much only potentially fun thing in this group. You may get something jucy today. Or may not. Lots of time invested to get blue balled by bot or logoffski's. Requires 1-4 first to happen.
So in WoW (other games may very by different amount of degrees) you have log in to maybe not as thrilling but more sustained entertainment and enjoyable fun. Where in the current EVE situation you have work work work work to MAYBE a couple times get a real and maybe more exciting thrill every now and the. It's personal preference but when I sit down and make that decision to click on the wow or the eve icon, odds are the EVE icon means work, the WoW icon means PvP within minutes. I will nearly always click the WoW button. The only exception is if I have friends on TS or vent requesting presence in EVE and well as the CEO mentioned their are less and less of those these days.
We will see where Starwars fits in to this picture possibly in December. But with CCP unable to fix things like warp tunnel and window closing bugs in 3 years, I don't see them being able to fix 3-4 years of constant mistakes in 2.5 months. But time will tell but they don't have much.
Z |
Donna Domino
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 21:12:00 -
[605] - Quote
The apology from the CEO seems sincere but at this point the damage has been done. CCP has alienated a portion of their player base and I don't think many of those are coming back.
Large portions of null that used to have activity became ghost systems, so now both null and low sec really suck. My pvp toon has nothing to do besides spin ships. Wait-I can't even do that. My mission runner can still run missions and wormhole but how many billions of isk does anyone need when they already have 3 of every ship they could ever want or use? And I'll burn my isk before I spend any of it on those sucky RMT store items. Hello, the noble exchange sucked when it came out. It sucked a month ago and it still sucks. You say you are sorry but you have my permission to make it stop sucking right now. Turn it into a burger bar where we can buy food or something. I'll pay some isk to watch my toon snarf down a burger rather than spend more on a monocle than i did on a faction tank carrier.
We need reasons to play Eve. Reasons that appeal to us. My reason used to be fun incentives to interact with other players. Where did the incentives go? I don't know but they are gone. Where did the players go? I don't know, but many of them are gone too. What is CCP planning on doing about it? More balancing acts (nerfing good ships and killing good game mechanics instead of making the bad ones better). That is not going to bring players back.
I want a reason to keep playing Eve. Let's see CCP give me one good one. |
Huaman Chung
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 21:23:00 -
[606] - Quote
PLEX is the most non-disruptive (because it is not inflationary / creating ISK out of thin air, though it does promote non-productive consumerism) pay-to-win feature added to Eve. ISK (some workarounds like moon mining & industry & research agents) and standings (especially) are the two time investment pieces of the game. PLEX lets you bypass the time investment at will. I'm pretty sure PLEX is very successful for you, especially with the non-inflationary, pro-free-market way of doing it.
Wonder if you could do the something similar for accelerated skill training. A month's worth of skill points for about the price of a PLEX. Or just make PLEX themselves redeemable for either month of game time or a month's worth of skill training (probably scaled to normalized attribute scores). It will make your PLEX business boom even more.
Don't need to add any more golden ships. Your named, faction, officer, etc.. ship components already serve to make 'golden ships' and ISK earned from PLEX can be used to buy it for those who don't have the time or obsession to build the social networks & infrastructure to build ISK machines of their own.
NEX is a joke right now. If you want it to succeed you need more products, better products, and lower prices, and if NEX is to be limited to vanity items to show off on a human avatar (vs ships), you need to have multilayer walk-in-stations and some way to attract and keep more idiot social type of gamers as apposed to the smart/achiever types. The influx of idiots will spend more money on PLEX and such also. Don't cater to idiots too much (especially dumbed down morally depraved americans). You'll push out your original niche audience.
The facebook games all succeed on pay-to-win. And they are pretty dumbed down also (incompatible with Eve, not for idiots). The vanity items are just supplemental income for them. PLEX is pay-to-win (when combined with named/officer/complex/faction gear, golden ships too). No need to deny it. It is very successful. And no need to cater for and flood your games with idiots either (they whine a lot and probably consume more GM time also). Don't change the game model to cater for idiots that will actually buy from your NEX. You'll have a disaster like the Combat upgrade in Star Wars Galaxies. PLEX does work though. Focus on that. PLEX-for-Skillpoints would be cool.
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Damion Rayne
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 21:25:00 -
[607] - Quote
This is a fantastic letter, well done CCP Hellmar. Show us you still care about US and about Eve. |
Damion Rayne
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 21:27:00 -
[608] - Quote
Why are you posting on these forums? Why are you playing Eve Online? You spout nothing but garbage and hate and yet, you're still here. Go away.
Ztrain wrote:BlinSky wrote:The new Starwars game is gonna be crap.
RIP EVE That may indeed be true and the new Starwars may very well be crap. But we will see. But at this time the big benefit that it has is that it not being developed by CCP. I will never even try their Vampire game nor Dust just because of how they have delt with EVE. I have in other games actively dissuaded people from trying EVE by simply describing how it currently is. I am more then happy head off and save people from more work in their leisure time. Like you mentioned that only fun in EVE is PvP. The changes they have made creates way way way more work to have to try and maintain that PvP. When I am not at work and I have down time to play I have a choice. I can sit down with the following choices. WoW: 1. Que for a Random Battleground go stomp some face of people who probably suck. But only for maybe an hour or so. 2. Head out for some world PvP griefing (available on PvP server, think Nullsec for the entire game.) Depending on what is found that day could be hours of fun or 15-30 minutes of boredom. 3. PvE raiding which is not for me. I consider this to be like work in EVE. Raids become and exercise in who is going to Fup this encounter this time. 4. See if friends are on or since I'm on a PvP server see if there are any good rated Battleground groups going. This can provide several hours of fun. 5. If just don't feel like messing with anything can run some quests (solo PvE) for cash or whatever. EVE: 1. Login and Mine (PvE content stare at laser beams hitting non moving targets and then draging those piles to a hauler) hmmm this is more like work to me. 2. Run Level 4 missions (PvE shoot the exact same spawns over and over again) personally almost but not quite as boring as mining. 3. Run Sanctums (PvE shoot the same spawns over and over again) almost like the above however scanned out in 0.0 but from what I am told this used to be available in any upgraded system a year ago is no longer as available depending on true sec status. So that has become rarer but still a bore. 4. Run logistics for corp. Not fun have to drag stuff around empire or out to 0.0 Can be PvE or PvP but generally just work that needs to be done and can potentially take up hours with no entertainment. 5. Sov Warfare (PvP blob) generally sit in a large fleet and wait. and wait then hurry up and jump and wait and wait and then engage and then wait in lag. So much fun......... Requires 1-4 first to happen. 6. Roaming fleet. pretty much only potentially fun thing in this group. You may get something jucy today. Or may not. Lots of time invested to get blue balled by bot or logoffski's. Requires 1-4 first to happen. So in WoW (other games may very by different amount of degrees) you have log in to maybe not as thrilling but more sustained entertainment and enjoyable fun. Where in the current EVE situation you have work work work work to MAYBE a couple times get a real and maybe more exciting thrill every now and the. It's personal preference but when I sit down and make that decision to click on the wow or the eve icon, odds are the EVE icon means work, the WoW icon means PvP within minutes. I will nearly always click the WoW button. The only exception is if I have friends on TS or vent requesting presence in EVE and well as the CEO mentioned their are less and less of those these days. We will see where Starwars fits in to this picture possibly in December. But with CCP unable to fix things like warp tunnel and window closing bugs in 3 years, I don't see them being able to fix 3-4 years of constant mistakes in 2.5 months. But time will tell but they don't have much. Z
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Ztrain
Viziam Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.10.06 21:48:00 -
[609] - Quote
Donna Domino wrote:I want a reason to keep playing Eve. Let's see CCP give me one good one.
I say blah blah ..... What you just said is what I've been trying to say, just far more efficient. I am just not optimistic.
Z |
Narawen Blake
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.10.06 23:27:00 -
[610] - Quote
CCP Spitfire wrote:Cearain wrote:Lots of words about incarna and Nex. When and to what extent is ccp going to dedicate resources to fis? Please have a look at this dev blog by CCP Zulu which tells about our plans for the winter expansion.
Hillmar's letter has stopped me from clicking the cancel button. I am sure you will pardon me for failing to get excited about anything until I see a message on my client saying a patch is ready to be downloaded.
As for Zulu, I still think he needs to walk the plank for his ****-poor customer interaction skills. Stick him in a closet and tell him to shut the hell up. |
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Ardetia
Killer Koalas
0
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Posted - 2011.10.06 23:33:00 -
[611] - Quote
i rarely post but, interweb highfive o/\o
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The Offerer
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2011.10.06 23:44:00 -
[612] - Quote
Thank you for this devblog. It returned part of the hope that this game is again going to be the most innovative MMO in the gaming world. For the other part, the content will make a huge difference. Time is not that relevant (although it plays a role), so even if you don't deliver all the promised content in one big expansion, iterating on key features and deploying them even after the original expansion deployment's date in a series of mini content patches works for me (and many others).
"CCP Hellmar" wrote:We would have been much better off positioning Incarna as an optional technology preview that interested players could have experienced and helped us to refine.
I'm especially glad that you've managed to see this.
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Kagura Nikon
Emptiness.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 00:01:00 -
[613] - Quote
The is the very first thing CCP made that allows me to think about resubscribign in the future. I was one that cancelled all my accoutns when of the riots. This one stil has days on it sicne was a 6 month accoutn, but i have not played sin ce then.
IF CCP amazes me with a redoubled effort into makign eve great I might subscribe again somehwere on 2012 first quarter. |
Ztrain
Viziam Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.10.07 00:04:00 -
[614] - Quote
Narawen Blake wrote:As for Zulu, I still think he needs to walk the plank for his ****-poor customer interaction skills. Stick him in a closet and tell him to shut the hell up.
Now there is an idea on progress. Because his current list of what their working is devoid of anything problem solving.
Z |
Lone Desire
Rising Knights
3
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Posted - 2011.10.07 00:15:00 -
[615] - Quote
Reading other comments above ....
Yes, too many hours of boredom between brief moments of LAG and ACTION.
Agreed .. we DO NOT need even more ships and more complexity.
We need interesting, fun PvP action between corps, between fleets, and between players.
The ratio of "ACTION" to "GRIND" is way too low in EVE. |
Cpt Bogus
Whimsical Mining Refining and Exploration
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 01:28:00 -
[616] - Quote
Well said, and accepted. I've said it before and I'll say it again, CCP's honesty is one of the things I like most about them. They're definitely not the first ones to make a mistake like this, but they're one of the few willing to actually own up to it. Especially since a certain *other* publisher is handling their MT-related controversy to restricting forum access to fanboys and basically accusing dissenters of being pirates.
I do agree that Incarna has potential as an incentivized add-on, but it shouldn't come at the expense of anything in standard Eve. As has been said ad nauseum, "ship spinning" and the like is not only cool but also a far more efficient way of rapidly equipping and managing ships in a large hangar than CQ/Incarna. |
Cpt Bogus
Whimsical Mining Refining and Exploration
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 01:34:00 -
[617] - Quote
Lone Desire wrote:Reading other comments above ....
Yes, too many hours of boredom between brief moments of LAG and ACTION.
Agreed .. we DO NOT need even more ships and more complexity.
We need interesting, fun PvP action between corps, between fleets, and between players.
The ratio of "ACTION" to "GRIND" is way too low in EVE.
Indeed. It's interesting that Hellmar brought up 2003...I've been around since 04 and what I really miss, that no MMO has been able to really deliver, is the ability to go out in a small fast ship alone or with a couple of friends, go balls to the wall and have a good time. Now it's mostly a numbers game, with massive alliance blobs controlling .0 and boring cookie-cutter missile fits dominating PvE. Incursion and wormholes were bright glimmers of a possibly glorious future, but neither was carried to their logical ends and they too have fallen victim to LCD strategy. Basically CCP needs to focus on making Eve *fun*, not bigger or shinier or with more bullet points to list on the box. |
Dirk Massive
The Lucky 13th
2
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Posted - 2011.10.07 01:51:00 -
[618] - Quote
It's refreshing to see a game companies exec write a letter like this to their players, admitting faults. I can appreciate that, and thank him for this effort. Now lets see if it gets followed up on, and see good things come in the future in Eve. One place they can start maybe is to repair the now dead faction war part of the game. It had great potential, but CCP just gave up on it. Just an idea. |
Lev Aeris
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 02:00:00 -
[619] - Quote
Thanks for manning up and acknowledging the ugly face of failure.
I really hope this means that CCP is going to take a long time finishing 8 years of half finished content that hints at greatness but ended up being an unpolished train wreck. Forgetting about infantry and vampires for a while and focusing on your companies flagship product could really take you good places. I think it would also make your customers very happy.
CCP has always been big on promises and as of late I'd go so far as to say charlatans. I sincerely hope that you can make the time and commitments to deliver on your hype this time around. |
Moeli Nightwalker
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 02:45:00 -
[620] - Quote
For now, it's just words.
Actions speak louder....
Time will tell. |
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Lone Desire
Rising Knights
3
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Posted - 2011.10.07 03:18:00 -
[621] - Quote
BINGO!
CCP, Please focus on making EVE PvP fun again.
Cpt Bogus wrote:Indeed. It's interesting that Hellmar brought up 2003...I've been around since 04 and what I really miss, that no MMO has been able to really deliver, is the ability to go out in a small fast ship alone or with a couple of friends, go balls to the wall and have a good time. Now it's mostly a numbers game, with massive alliance blobs controlling .0 and boring cookie-cutter missile fits dominating PvE. Incursion and wormholes were bright glimmers of a possibly glorious future, but neither was carried to their logical ends and they too have fallen victim to LCD strategy. Basically CCP needs to focus on making Eve *fun*, not bigger or shinier or with more bullet points to list on the box.
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Omega Blaster
Derailleurs
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 04:23:00 -
[622] - Quote
Very well said.
Thank you |
Adamas Anax
The Dark Tribe Checkmate.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 04:34:00 -
[623] - Quote
Well, Hilmar, these things happen when people put money ahead of substance and the needs of the customer. You said your sorry, great, but this still doesn't mean you are not a greedy sack. You lost your way, fine, you will fix it. Getting back the trust of the players will remain to be seen. Growth, in and of itself, is admirable in any business. It must be measured with patience and tempered with the opinions of the people in charge of your paychecks.....US. All extraneous additions that expand the "in station" game play should only be implemented to the game server after they are complete. Test all you want but don't deliver slivers of content without first asking the community their opinions and ideas first. But of course you know this now. The future of the game, as proposed, looks fantastic: more immersion for players while not flying in space, bigger and better mods and functions for game play, a wealth of unique items for players to wear (and hopefully sport in their quarters, like vats to display your most prized corpses or posters and wall papers) as well as possibly merging Eve with Dust (though this may be a long way off given the segregation of the two between PC and Xbox). The future can be great indeed, babysteps.....any departure from what should be a close relationship with your customer base will result in the EVEverse collapsing in a big crunch. |
Imawuss
Black Ice Protectorate The Imperial Senate
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 04:39:00 -
[624] - Quote
why do i feel i just went to one of those office meetings that are all hype and sound great, but in the end nothing at all changes? |
Kitsume Serine
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 04:45:00 -
[625] - Quote
Prove to me in actions not words. Talk is cheap and I still have a room that isnt decontaminated yet. (Complaint 45 of 210) |
Adamas Anax
The Dark Tribe Checkmate.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 04:49:00 -
[626] - Quote
Kitsume Serine wrote:Prove to me in actions not words. Talk is cheap and I still have a room that isnt decontaminated yet. (Complaint 45 of 210)
There are, as of yet, no feminine hygiene products in the Nex store. Not sure how you're gonna solve that issue. |
Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 06:50:00 -
[627] - Quote
Inspire me, not with your words, but your actions and your content. Make EVE impress me and draw me back in, as I once was. Until then, I will remain a single account on a plex. |
Taronyu Eywa
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 07:31:00 -
[628] - Quote
"SQUAD MORALE RESTORED" |
crinsom
Incursion Runners Unprovoked Aggression
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 08:23:00 -
[629] - Quote
I commend the guy for being honest and humble easpically in todays society, and have respect for people who can be honest,
Just from my prospective about the game, the content which was implemented has been moving forward but has left the original content lacking
]Incursion's were a good idea and a twist on things, tho would of have been possible to change the racial incursions every so often so it spiced it up alittle more,
Wormholes were an ok ish idea, i like the design behind them making travel from onside of the galaxy to another, - i have not expereinced this content myself as it dose not appeal to me,
NPC missions get old and stagnant very quick lvl 4 to lvl 5 are a massive step, new missions are ok but they can get old very fast,
my main pvp days ended when Nano ships was all the rage as it was insane and not practical for a BS to go at those speeds
in general all the content at the moment is ok for 2-3 months then it gets old again,
The char store to buy clothes what in gods earth was that all about, if i wanted that i would play wow or other mmo's this is eve and is a significant different game to wow, so keep it that ways its the selling point im my opinion.
soon Star Wars online will be out, i hope this was not a PR stunt to try and entice those wavering as to play other mmo's because CCP admit they have borked the design and spirit of the game?
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WisdomLikeSilence
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
52
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Posted - 2011.10.07 08:33:00 -
[630] - Quote
Yes, the rollout of Incarna and the shop were premature, yes they came at the cost of badly needed game updates and fixes, but the only thing that really bothered me or the people I fly with was the stupid anom nerf that micturated all over our hard work winning, holding and upgrading our space.
I appreciate Hilmars mea culpa, I'm sure some of his employees appreciate it far more than we players do - but I do hope that its not the start of a lilly livered, weak kneed CCP that flip flops on every decision based on flavour of the month grumbles.
There will always be Luddities - (even in a sandbox internet spaceship game!) and those people will always want to keep things "the same". They don't want to come out of the cave and investigate fire (you'll get burned!). They dont like the wheel (whats wrong with legs?) they dont want to go into space (solve the problems here on earth first) A long term strategic plan like incarna requires a long term focus. I think it will be worth the effort in the end. The opposing opinion: "Eve isnt about walking in stations" is asinine. Of course it isnt about that - yet - argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.
Oh and while I'm here: boost Hybrids (obviously!).
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