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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
79
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Posted - 2012.12.01 20:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:I think this is a good change.
You can still snipe as long as you get there 1st and blasters will now have a use.
Looking forward to it.
so... you're saying if there's someone in there, you're warping in?
Sometimes - yes. Depends what is there.
No different to how it is now - we will just all have different fits. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
100
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Posted - 2012.12.01 22:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:Can't wait to try my propless fits out in an environment that is pants on head ********.
This really, my concern is that the fits best for taking plexes will be a perverse aberration of normal Losec PVP fits, Propless blaster DPS EHP bricks on the warp in. I fly Gallente but still would prefer there to be some distance between warp in and the timer. A tactical element in fitting and flying skill is potentially being lost. |
David Campbell
Riposte.
39
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Posted - 2012.12.02 00:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
All hail the "Double Web Enyo", new King of the so called "novice plexes" |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
640
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Posted - 2012.12.02 00:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
i wanna see two accel gates, one on the button and one 100-300km away on the other side, so theres always a "back door" to get into a plex, this camping the warp in stuff is just too linear and dull (and predictable)
options are good. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
91
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Posted - 2012.12.02 02:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:.... this camping the warp in stuff is just too linear and dull (and predictable)
QFT. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1183
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Posted - 2012.12.02 05:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
i can't agree more. This in fact is a very unnecessary change.
It would have had made sense 6month ago right after the inferno patch as quick fix for the gunless frig farmers issue. Now however, there is no good reason anymore why its there in the first place. It just changes something which was actually working pretty good.
If somebody in the plex does not want to fight he will not fight... it does not matter at all where the warpin is. He will just leave as soon something is on close range scan. Again: the motivation behind the change is not obvious at all for me.
The actual fix for the issue would be a timer reset if the plexer leaves. This would create a motivation to stay and fight... the warpin change does nothing regarding that.
The new plex layout FORCES you to use dscan all the time while waiting at the flag since you can no longer react fast enough if you see something in overview. FW plexes were a good place where you could control who is engaging you and a nice environment for good fights. Fighting in a plex is now just like fighting anywhere else. The opponent can just spawn the rest of his fleet next to you. Less good fights :(
Also.. as OP already analyzed some ships will become also VERY risky to fly. E.g you like a slicer or a sentinel? Think twice about that. If you are the hunter you have a very good chance to die to cheap frigs at warpin since the defender has ALWAYS enough time to move to 0 if he doesn't camp it already. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Falkwen
Caldari Navy Operations Kraken.
7
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Posted - 2012.12.03 11:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
It don't matter much. FW is ****** again and will be dead soon enough with little going on as Caldari scale down and allow the Gal's to take every system. |
KiithSoban
Friends with no benefits Lucky 13 alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.12.03 16:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
I agree that the capture point is a bit too close now and agree with logic that says FW plexes are much better defended now. Present this to a DEV as soon as you can. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
644
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Posted - 2012.12.03 17:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Falkwen wrote:It don't matter much. FW is ****** again and will be dead soon enough with little going on as Caldari scale down and allow the Gal's to take every system. Somebody has to lose.
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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
177
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Posted - 2012.12.03 17:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
Come mid February when I am back home and playing again the state will rise to smack down all those who stand in the way of corporate profits. We will not be deterred by a bunch of slack jawed froggers and their little federation. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac |
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Rezig Huruta
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
73
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Posted - 2012.12.03 18:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cromwell Savage wrote:As long as there are plexes....I will dislike them regardless of any and all changes.
Worst....mechanic....ever....
......well, now only second to the utterly stupid docking rights.....
I only started FW while there were station lock outs and they make a lot of sense. If Amarr OWNS a system, why in EVE would they allow Minmatar pilots to stockpile ships and equipment there. Ships and equipment that will be used against them...
They also give the owning faction a reason to advance. |
Gunship
FATAL Warfare
7
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Posted - 2012.12.05 10:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
@OP
I can see the logic in your post, but since 95% of plex runners don't want to fight in the first place I think it's a change for the better.
Come join us for Amarr FW pvp-áaction. More info here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145548&#post2145548
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Mich Farmer
Nasranite Watch Liandri Covenant
0
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Posted - 2012.12.05 11:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gunship wrote:@OP
I can see the logic in your post, but since 95% of plex runners don't want to fight in the first place I think it's a change for the better.
The changes suck because we already got rid of farming once. Now CCP, no doubt because Hans and Gallente militia (aka dev's playing for them), have brought the whole thing back and we will again see space full of farmer alts since t1 frigates can handle all but one size plex and if you pimp one enough, you can probably take them all.
Add to the fact they didnt introduce timer rollback with this patch, everything reeks of boosting their favourite militias again until they can "correct it" again when damage has been done to Amarr & Caldari, the two militias they have publicly admitted they hate (aka. CCP Soundwave).
Fortunately we saw the crapstorm on the horizon well in advance and moved our stuff to system which is close enough to warzone but we dont have to hassle with defense plexing. CCP is hellbent on making stupid decision after stupid decision so no real surprise there. |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
130
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Posted - 2012.12.05 11:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
I like this change because Im after fights, not LP. At least so far its only good. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
687
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mich Farmer wrote:Gunship wrote:@OP
I can see the logic in your post, but since 95% of plex runners don't want to fight in the first place I think it's a change for the better.
The changes suck because we already got rid of farming once. Now CCP, no doubt because Hans and Gallente militia (aka dev's playing for them), have brought the whole thing back and we will again see space full of farmer alts since t1 frigates can handle all but one size plex and if you pimp one enough, you can probably take them all.
They never got rid of farmers. They just required that the farmers have guns. They just ride a different type of tractor. The only time plexing is not farmville is when there is pvp. I don't care if you are in a battleship fleet with capital support to clean out plexes, if there is no pvp then its still just farming.
CCP has done nothing to bring about more pvp in plex warfare. That is why they see no increase in subscriptions after working on what should be a huge part of the game. That is why faction war mechanics are really just as bad as ever.
Mich Farmer wrote: Add to the fact they didnt introduce timer rollback with this patch, everything reeks of boosting their favourite militias again until they can "correct it" again when damage has been done to Amarr & Caldari, the two militias they have publicly admitted they hate (aka. CCP Soundwave)..
I don't think they are favoring a militia. I think they just lost sight of what is good for faction war and are botching the job. Although Han's actions certainly do mirror those of his alliance mates, more than anyone elses, I do not think he is intentionally biased. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he left for null sec after a bit.
Mich Farmer wrote: Fortunately we saw the crapstorm on the horizon well in advance and moved our stuff to system which is close enough to warzone but we dont have to hassle with defense plexing. CCP is hellbent on making stupid decision after stupid decision so no real surprise there.
We moved to a neutral low sec system before inferno. And we still base there. I have no idea why pvpers base in faction war space. Having to run alts to defensive plex when the enemy is not around is not how I like to spend my eve time. But to each their own. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
646
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cearain you are a habitual whiner. The only reason they have the SINGLE rat in the plex is to make sure the ships entering the plex have weapons. Otherrwise they are exactly like what you have proposed for years - no rats. So, you got what you wanted and are still whining endlessly.
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Victory Vinco
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
You do realize that your entire argument is based on arbitrary values that you have pulled out of your ass. Right? |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
687
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Posted - 2012.12.05 15:06:00 -
[48] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain you are a habitual whiner. The only reason they have the SINGLE rat in the plex is to make sure the ships entering the plex have weapons. Otherrwise they are exactly like what you have proposed for years - no rats. So, you got what you wanted and are still whining endlessly.
You are the one whining about there being a single rat. Not me. I'm glad for that change.
I am making the point that you and ccp seem to miss: You can change the rats however you like, but if there is no pvp, you are still just farming.
The problem is they have not done anything to make it more likely you will get pvp when you are plexing.
But I know you don't see this as a problem since you like to have your alts run defensive plexes when local is clear. To each their own. Just because I don't agree with your view that, that is good gameplay doesn't mean I am whining. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
646
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Posted - 2012.12.05 15:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cearain wrote:I am making the point that you and ccp seem to miss: You can change the rats however you like, but if there is no pvp, you are still just farming. DUH. There is no fix for you (a general "you", not you specifically) not wanting to undock your ship and go look for fights.
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
688
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Posted - 2012.12.05 15:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:I am making the point that you and ccp seem to miss: You can change the rats however you like, but if there is no pvp, you are still just farming. DUH. There is no fix for you (a general "you", not you specifically) not wanting to undock your ship and go look for fights.
There is of course the fix that I proposed in my signature for several years, and hans said he would support. Appearantly ccp decided their time would be better spent futzing with npcs and lp payouts instead of making the game about pvp.
I undock plenty and go "roaming" for fights. It is very hit or miss as to whether I will stumble upon them. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rezig Huruta
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
74
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
It's true about the farming - it isn't dead.
Now, every system I see is defensively plexxed by a freakin' probe.
Probes! Probes everywhere... *shudder*
On the other hand, thanks Probes for keeping our sites "defended"! wait... wut? |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin
32
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Well i sort of like cearain's idea about a notification system, but i had posted my own version of it in some old post laying around here.
Basically you take the faction warfare map, and modify the color/shape code to the systems that it has now.
Instead of showing systems that are contested or vulnerable, it shows the systems that have enemies in their plexes.
Instead of the concentric rings around the contested systems as it is now, color or shape code them to let you know which type of plexes are occupied.
That way you know where to get a fight, without knowing too much.
The biggest problem i had with your suggestion Cearain, is that if I know you just entered a medium plex in your coercer, I'm coming in a ship fit to kill you, and 10 other people are likely independently making the same decision.
Consistenly having a train run on you by people that are fit to kill you wouldn't be much fun.
Back on topic, the plex button is getting old already. People just aren't coming in like they used to. |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
21
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Before the patch i would sit on the button and move into my optimal as soon as i got a ship on shortrange dscan.
Now i have to move less.
So apart from the ships allowed into plexes, nothing has changed. pew pew |
2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin
32
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:50:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote:Before the patch i would sit on the button and move into my optimal as soon as i got a ship on shortrange dscan.
Now i have to move less.
So apart from the ships allowed into plexes, nothing has changed.
Rreally? I'm curious to know how many occupied plexes have you jumped into and how it worked out.
I avoid occupied ones unless I/we have numbers for reasons stated in the OP. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
648
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Posted - 2012.12.05 20:24:00 -
[55] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:Zen Guerrilla wrote:Before the patch i would sit on the button and move into my optimal as soon as i got a ship on shortrange dscan. Now i have to move less. So apart from the ships allowed into plexes, nothing has changed. Rreally? I'm curious to know how many occupied plexes have you jumped into and how it worked out. I avoid occupied ones unless I/we have numbers for reasons stated in the OP. Jumped into about 5. Died three times, won twice. Adapting. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
648
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Posted - 2012.12.05 20:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cearain wrote:There is of course the fix that I proposed in my signature for several years, and hans said he would support. It is not a fix if you decide to stay docked. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1190
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Posted - 2012.12.05 21:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gunship wrote:@OP
I can see the logic in your post, but since 95% of plex runners don't want to fight in the first place I think it's a change for the better.
nope. it does not change anything about the people who want to run at all. They will just run a bit earlier. It was a change without a clear purpose. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration Reckless Faith
89
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Posted - 2012.12.05 21:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
TBH the button change has changed absolutly nothing in how I decide to warp into a plex or not.
I always assuem that whoever is in the plex is at there optimal range for tackle/dps/ewar/whatever. That is the advantage they get by being there first and me warping in second is my choice weather to engage or not.
If you are not willing to engage then bugger off and go running missions or some crap like that!
As for tactics.....the change to the button changes nothing! if i'm in a kitey setup I need range asap and as I have already assumed they'll be at their optimal then I plan accordingly to try and minimise the chance of being caught by a brawler (not going into how I do this - figure it out!) or try to catch a kitey if i'm in a brawler setup.
It does give the brawlers a bit more time to setup on the warping if they are actively defending it. But then again any half witted player will watch dscan and move as soon as wt's show up. I have never not been able to set myself up in a AB'ing brawler before.
Seriously all this changes is the ease of catching a plexer who is only half paying attention to dscan......get over it and stop overthinking the issue.
Edit: The only real change in the plex's is the silly speed of the npc's now...... That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1190
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Posted - 2012.12.05 21:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote: If you are not willing to engage then bugger off and go running missions or some crap like that!
if you say something like that you clearly didn't understand what the OP wanted to say. We are here to pvp. Its still a difference between running into a camp every time you enter a plex or not. Before the patch you had a pretty good chance that the guy in the plex is not at optimal range with weapons hot. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration Reckless Faith
89
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Posted - 2012.12.05 21:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote: If you are not willing to engage then bugger off and go running missions or some crap like that!
if you say something like that you clearly didn't understand what the OP wanted to say. We are here to pvp. Its still a difference between running into a camp every time you enter a plex or not.
I undersatnd what he is saying.....basically it is folly to enter an occupied plex! Re-read my post I always assume a camp in an occupied plex....it changes nothing.
Guess what?
What a load of crap!
I suppose I should stop flying rifters now or run away from the rebalanced cruisers in my frigs.....yeah right like that is going to happen!
Seriously people need to stop bitching and whining so much a go out and fight......all the 'perfect world' scenarios that are argued about here on the forums are generally a load of tosh and very rarely happen.
Here's a novel Idea.....go out anf find out about if first rather than complaining about it..........then........figure out a counter to it and BBQ them all over the place.
The history of EVE is one of new tactics -> counter tactics -> new counter tactics.......
This is nothing different.
Adapt or die!
If it actually panned out in game like most of the posts in the forum would have you believe then eve would die a very quick death.
I always assume worst case scenarios when i go into a fight but I always bet on chance and stupidity of my opponent. Some times that pays off and I get a kill that I 'shouldn't' be able to or I have a tough fight and barely scrape through or I get owned because I have the wrong ship/fit/tactics and the other pilot is competant..... That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |
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