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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Bitten.
643
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 16:56:00 -
[511] - Quote
Shylari Avada wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Unfortunately the attempts by CCP to widen the appeal of Eve appears to be attracting people who are used to being mollycoddled by some of the other MMOs, this particular group need to realise that Eve is quite unlike any other game out there, we don't have an equivalent to a PvE only area, everything here is PvP in one form or another. Pretty much everything that is classified as an exploit by other game companies is normal gameplay within Eve, there are very few rules, very little PvE content and these are the main reasons many of us give CCP our money, if we wanted to play a purely PvE game, we wouldn't be playing Eve.
Pretty much this. I'm all for fixing things to make them more exciting, things that are broken, and things to draw people in. Making changes to think for those that won't think for themselves goes against pretty much everyone who is willing to play and adapt; and all this for something so simple as a swathe of players who refuse to push an orbit button. Of all the people, proposing feasible and intelligent ideas/changes it's far beyond pathetic that 'Miner Bumping' is what the Community Reps are choosing to focus on. Fixing Null Sec Industry? Nope. Fixing Mineral Compression? Nope. Balancing Risk vs. Reward? Nope. Tiericide? Nope Let's talk about Miner Bumping. :facepalm:
The things you mentioned, and other similar things like POS mechanics, moon goo balance, etc currently effect literally thousands of players
and we have this thread here, as a result of around a dozen players causing another dozen or so players in a total of 3 systems to cry
What hope is there for EVE at this point
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Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
106
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 17:29:00 -
[512] - Quote
I'm with the posters directly above me. Everything in Eve that needs to be looked at and this is a focus? |
Shisha Edkaan
Red Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 17:30:00 -
[513] - Quote
I'm with these guys. This whole thread is ridiculously pointless. |
Tusen Takk
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 17:43:00 -
[514] - Quote
Shylari Avada wrote:
Fixing Null Sec Industry? Nope. Fixing Mineral Compression? Nope. Balancing Risk vs. Reward? Nope. Tiericide? Nope
Let's talk about Miner Bumping.
:facepalm:
Obviously for the dozen or so miners to have their demands pushed through before these fixes listed here, they must be the 0.5%. People whine about how rich Goonswarm is and WAHHHH THEY CONTROL ALL THE TECH IT'S NOT FAIR >:( >:( yet somehow our issues are never pushed through nor considered more important than these seemingly harmless cry-tit miners.
In spite of the fact that there are thousands of players crying out for fixing Nullsec industry and balancing the risk/reward ratio, we have this here thread. :ccp: |
Shylari Avada
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
98
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 17:50:00 -
[515] - Quote
Tusen Takk wrote:Obviously for the dozen or so miners to have their demands pushed through before these fixes listed here, they must be the 0.5%. People whine about how rich Goonswarm is and WAHHHH THEY CONTROL ALL THE TECH IT'S NOT FAIR >:( >:( yet somehow our issues are never pushed through nor considered more important than these seemingly harmless cry-tit miners.
In spite of the fact that there are thousands of players crying out for fixing Nullsec industry and balancing the risk/reward ratio, we have this here thread. :ccp:
And sadly, that's just the brief list of things I could pull from my over-exhausted memory of what is currently 'wrong' with EVE, a few months ago it was CSM Voting Reform, and now were talking about bumping. Well not just bumping as a whole, just bumping when it happens to miners.
Excuse me, I'm going to go start a thread about being unable to effectively PvP while playing solitaire, manipulating market orders and watching some random b-movie with other Goons (i.e. generally not watching my active screen). That's literally how pointless this entire discussion about Miner Bumping is.
CCP already said it wasn't an exploit. It isn't harassment. It isn't griefing.
Why are we still talking about this?
Why is this still stickied?
Why are we still talking about this? |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
681
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:07:00 -
[516] - Quote
It may not be an issue for you, but for others it is. Otherwise, it wouldn't be here. Attempting to discredit it by repeating "why is this here" and "this is a none-issue" will not make it go away. People do not like it. Just because they aren't posting here does not mean everyone in the galaxy like this.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy Persona Non Gratis
255
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:15:00 -
[517] - Quote
Anslo wrote:It may not be an issue for you, but for others it is. Otherwise, it wouldn't be here. Attempting to discredit it by repeating "why is this here" and "this is a none-issue" will not make it go away. People do not like it. Just because they aren't posting here does not mean everyone in the galaxy like this.
But no-one has yet explained how it is an issue, and done so that takes into account the type of game that CCP designed and envisioned. No-one's explained why miner bumping is bad for Eve. All we've seen are statements that amount to "it bugs *me* therefore it's griefing / harassment / exploiting / etc". You not liking it is not an argument because, as I've already posted in this thread, I do not like Concord.
If people don't want non-consentual interaction then CCP's response should be as simple as this: account management > cancel subscription.
Edit: If miner bumping were truly a bad thing for Eve, pretty much all the people posting in favour of it would be posting for it to be ended. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Sixx Spades
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:18:00 -
[518] - Quote
Anslo wrote:It may not be an issue for you, but for others it is. Otherwise, it wouldn't be here. Attempting to discredit it by repeating "why is this here" and "this is a none-issue" will not make it go away. People do not like it. Just because they aren't posting here does not mean everyone in the galaxy like this. Equally, just because you ARE posting here doesn't mean you are the 'voice of the people'. The Eve-o forums are notorious for catering to the Vocal Majority.
Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future. |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
212
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:27:00 -
[519] - Quote
Anslo wrote:It may not be an issue for you, but for others it is. Otherwise, it wouldn't be here. Attempting to discredit it by repeating "why is this here" and "this is a none-issue" will not make it go away. People do not like it. Just because they aren't posting here does not mean everyone in the galaxy like this. As a miner bumper I have a fairly good idea of how many people have been affected by my bumping and he bumping of my comrades.
Spoiler: It's less than those who have been affected by the lack of focus on any of the other things mentioned.
Edit: Of course, if we include the miners that Anslo has bumped himself, it's quite a few more...
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Shylari Avada
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
101
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:28:00 -
[520] - Quote
Anslo wrote:It may not be an issue for you, but for others it is. Otherwise, it wouldn't be here. Attempting to discredit it by repeating "why is this here" and "this is a none-issue" will not make it go away. People do not like it. Just because they aren't posting here does not mean everyone in the galaxy like this.
SET DEFAULT ORBIT DISTANCE TO 500 METERS.
PUSH ORBIT BUTTON.
Problem solved.
Or hey- here's a wacky idea... GO TO A DIFFERENT SYSTEM. |
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Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
681
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:38:00 -
[521] - Quote
admiral root wrote:But no-one has yet explained how it is an issue, and done so that takes into account the type of game that CCP designed and envisioned. CCP did not design a game where players can exhibit out right malevolent hostility towards a group of players because they are jealous they make a few bucks shooting and asteroid. Griefing is one thing. Harassing is another. Spout the EULA definition of harassment all you want, but at the end of the day, by the English definition, what is happening is harassment.
Quote:No-one's explained why miner bumping is bad for Eve. You are engaging in activity with as little risk as the miners you moan and complain about. Why should your activity have risk when there's doesn't? There interaction has little reaction or activity to other players. Yours does.
Quote:If people don't want non-consentual interaction then CCP's response should be as simple as this: account management > cancel subscription. Because less money means better activity for the company. Brilliant. Interaction and griefing etc is one thing. People loose ships. Miner bumping is simply harassment.
Sixx Spades wrote:Equally, just because you ARE posting here doesn't mean you are the 'voice of the people'.
I'm not the voice of the people, but there have been an equal number of miners between the goons and bumpers claiming miner bumping for what it is, harassment.
|
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
107
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:40:00 -
[522] - Quote
I'm not saying that it isn't an issue (double neg sorry), but the number of people affected by this is far disproportional to the number affected by the other issues mentioned. |
Construticon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:46:00 -
[523] - Quote
EVE is a game that is meant to be played and enjoyed. You New Order folks are ruining it for everyone and by everyone I mean a bunch of whining miners.
- Learn to fit a ship that is not easily bumped. - Learn to wedge your ship between rocks to mitigate bumps. - Be at the keyboard and don't AFK mine. - Be polite and make it fun for you and the bumpers. - Get sqaud together and gank the bumpers and try to break their will. GOOD LUCK - Change systems that you mine in.
- Last but not least: Troll and Flame me for thinking you are a bunch whiners with a sense of entitlment for playing in high sec.
I'm an miner in Abudban and had LOTS of fun with the New Order while they were in system. I encouraged the behavior once I realized that they actually broke the boring droning about the system mining. Rocks and Ice get more expensive which in the end make all the miners richer. |
Tusen Takk
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:48:00 -
[524] - Quote
Anslo wrote:admiral root wrote:But no-one has yet explained how it is an issue, and done so that takes into account the type of game that CCP designed and envisioned. CCP did not design a game where players can exhibit out right malevolent hostility towards a group of players because they are jealous they make a few bucks shooting and asteroid. Griefing is one thing. Harassing is another. Spout the EULA definition of harassment all you want, but at the end of the day, by the English definition, what is happening is harassment. Quote:No-one's explained why miner bumping is bad for Eve. You are engaging in activity with as little risk as the miners you moan and complain about. Why should your activity have risk when there's doesn't? There interaction has little reaction or activity to other players. Yours does. Quote:If people don't want non-consentual interaction then CCP's response should be as simple as this: account management > cancel subscription. Because less money means better activity for the company. Brilliant. Interaction and griefing etc is one thing. People loose ships. Miner bumping is simply harassment. Sixx Spades wrote:Equally, just because you ARE posting here doesn't mean you are the 'voice of the people'. I'm not the voice of the people, but there have been an equal number of miners between the goons and bumpers claiming miner bumping for what it is, harassment. I seriously can't tell if this is a troll or what. They laughed as hard as we did when we burned Jita. You're probably just THUPER DUPER miffed that someone called you "a pathetic miner" or "a stupid poo-poo head" in local for getting exploded. If there was a bumper calling your wife and child at your house or bothering you in real life/threatening to kill you, that's called harassment. What minerbumping is is pure griefing. Here you are on the forums giving us precious tears that we blew up your internet spaceships and that you got tricked wah wah wahhhhh.
Harassment is apparently relative, but they mean "harassment" as in "making someone's life a living hell", not "MOMMY MAKE HIM STAY ON HIS SIDE OF THE CAR MOMMMMMM!!!!!!".
edit: there are over 10,000 Goonswarm Federation members, and god knows how many CFC members. We outnumber miners by a massive amount, and some of us are even miners! Yet here we are, highsec publords being fed the game with a silver spoon |
Shylari Avada
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
101
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:54:00 -
[525] - Quote
Tusen Takk wrote: Harassment is apparently relative, but they mean "harassment" as in "making someone's life a living hell", not "MOMMY MAKE HIM STAY ON HIS SIDE OF THE CAR MOMMMMMM!!!!!!".
edit: there are over 10,000 Goonswarm Federation members, and god knows how many CFC members. We outnumber miners by a massive amount, and some of us are even miners! Yet here we are, highsec publords being fed the game with a silver spoon
One day maybe they will figure out if they don't provide those delicious, delicious in-game mails of how mad they ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT, the bumpers would get bored, and leave them alone.
I've ganked 40b+ Freighters, Hulks by the hundreds, 5b+ Mission Boats, none of them complained.
I bumped a guy undocking 20 hulks once, and he still sends me hatemail/tears to this day. Making yourself remembered in EVE is literally the same as making yourself a victim. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
681
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 18:58:00 -
[526] - Quote
Tusen Takk wrote:meaningless words
Ok then. In the end, I and others will still call it what it is, targeted harassment.
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Construticon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 19:20:00 -
[527] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Tusen Takk wrote:meaningless words Ok then. In the end, I and others will still call it what it is, targeted harassment.
Anslo, To quote the New Order "All mouth and no trousers"
You are the scond loudest whiner of all the miners I've seen. If you want to be the saving grace to the miners step up to the plate and take a swing. I see post after post from you and nothing with any real substance. CCP has made it pretty clear that it isn't against TOS/EULA and yet you persist with whining about it. Adapt or die is how the world works.
New Order, Thanks for making mining interesting again and I would like to apologize for all the whining and complaining from the sheltered, entitled, bumphurt miners out there.
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Shvak
Zorgan Peterson Group
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 19:21:00 -
[528] - Quote
Watched a corp mate getting bumped despite being online. There is not much that he or I could do. A cheap Stabber not worth killing and having concord all over you. Nothing I could do to help my corp mate, the bumper is immune and fly such a cheap ship killing him makes no sense. I have no issue with bumping but I believe there must be an effective counter. I would favour a brief 10 second aggression timer (kill rights) for the ship bumped that he can react if he is not afk. The big argument for the pro-bumpers is it combats afk mining. Which is valid, you target an afk miner, no problem. You target a miner at his keyboard and you will have to reap the whirlwind. He can then maybe be given the right to activate killrights and maybe sell it starting a 15 minute timer of open season on the bumper. It eliminates the whole we are cleaning up afk mining and takes away the immunity they currently have against normal miners. It means there is an effective counter of very short duration to bumpers without taking away their basic business model. Neither side would be totally happy |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
212
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 19:22:00 -
[529] - Quote
Anslo wrote:CCP did not design a game where players can exhibit out right malevolent hostility towards a group of players because they are jealous they make a few bucks shooting and asteroid. Griefing is one thing. Harassing is another. Actually, yes, they did. They most certainly did create a game where you can be hostile to a player that you don't like. Jealousy and malevolence don't come into it.
Anslo wrote:Spout the EULA definition of harassment all you want, but at the end of the day, by the English definition, what is happening is harassment. You know what? For the purposes of this discussion, we're in EVE, not England. So what the English definition of harassment is is completely irrelevant; all we need worry about is CCP's definition.
You know what else is illegal IRL but fine in EVE?
- Murder
- Vandalism
- Stealing
- Price fixing
- Trespassing
- Destruction of property
- Monopolies
- Scamming
- Libel
- Extortion
- Drug dealing
No, I don't think that anything other than 'the EULA definition of harassment' is relevant here.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Holistic Materials Research Council
3965
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 19:34:00 -
[530] - Quote
Shvak wrote:Watched a corp mate getting bumped despite being online. There is not much that he or I could do. A cheap Stabber not worth killing and having concord all over you. Nothing I could do to help my corp mate, the bumper is immune and fly such a cheap ship killing him makes no sense. I have no issue with bumping but I believe there must be an effective counter. I would favour a brief 10 second aggression timer (kill rights) for the ship bumped that he can react if he is not afk. The big argument for the pro-bumpers is it combats afk mining. Which is valid, you target an afk miner, no problem. You target a miner at his keyboard and you will have to reap the whirlwind. He can then maybe be given the right to activate killrights and maybe sell it starting a 15 minute timer of open season on the bumper. It eliminates the whole we are cleaning up afk mining and takes away the immunity they currently have against normal miners. It means there is an effective counter of very short duration to bumpers without taking away their basic business model. Neither side would be totally happy
If it was a member of the new order doing the bumping, he could have paid the 10 million isk and been left alone, if the new order orca support was in system, he'd have made that pittance back within a few hours, after that the orca bonus produces profit over mining without it.
Always bet on stupid, CCP can't patch stupid. The measure of success in Eve is not monetary worth, it's how effectively you can enforce your will on others. |
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SaKoil
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:07:00 -
[531] - Quote
Shvak wrote:Watched a corp mate getting bumped despite being online. There is not much that he or I could do.. I have no issue with bumping but I believe there must be an effective counter.
Ask the poster above you, Construticon, how he managed to mine in the primary target system for the Order for weeks without any serious harm to his profits. He did it seemingly with little effort, making it a bit of a mini game for himself, taunting the bumpers and being all around good sport. If I've understood his posts properly he had as much fun doing it that we did.
What was that? Having fun while mining? We don't want fun, we want invulnerability and zero social interaction!
There have been numerous, numerous ways described even in thread how to mitigate the chance to get bumped, or if any risk is too big, avoid it altogether.
If you feel like there is no effective counter to bumping, this is where I would probably say something about your reading comprehension or some more deeply-rooted cognitive problems, but I give you a benefit of a doubt that you have not seen this thread before or have not yet had time to study its contents. Please do so. Perhaps your corp mate will have fun too.
Who am I kidding |
G'monk
Naviar INC.
1
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 21:44:00 -
[532] - Quote
Razesdark wrote:I want to apologize on behalf of all fellow miners. They didn't realize this was EVE Online they were playing and not hello kitty in space.
If bumping someones ship is harrasment. Then what is can flipping? Suicide Ganking and war deccing? Scamming? AFK Cloaking or awoxing? Eve is a sandbox game where everyone makes their own way. A game of risk management and risk handling. A game where you can spend your time playing the game and making sound decisions or be exploited and whine on the forums.
It is your job as a capsuleer to do something to fix your own problems. It's what the game is all about. If you get bumped? Set keep at range and reactivate once you get in range. Get a orca, find a new belt, go to 0.0 and become a dumb null bear. There is plenty of ways to not make yourself a target, being at the keyboard and responding to the situation as it occurs is usually a very good way.
If you want to play eve without not actually doing playing it? I suggest you unsub, cause clearly this game isn't for you!
Harrasment is a part of eve, get over it
Agreed, So let the bumpers suffer the same fate as the gankers, bump someone and concord kills them end of story. If you are just wanting to start a fight, and this Yob'ish behaviour suggest nothing else other than that go down to .4 space and have at it.
As far as pay to not be bumped? why should anyone pay a YOB to leave them alone, personally I believe a purposeful bumping is harassment and should be punishable by a death cert, but hey who would want more players in EVE anyway? rudeness gets rid of lots of new folks every week.. |
SaKoil
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 22:04:00 -
[533] - Quote
G'monk wrote: who would want more players in EVE anyway? rudeness gets rid of lots of new folks every week..
Lots of people join Eve because it is not, and will never be hello kitty online. There are some people who actually enjoy Eve as a harsh spaceship game.
Bumping as such is as rude as undercutting in the market, a means to an end. |
Belitch
The Nicomachean Ethics TriMark Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 22:19:00 -
[534] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:We are very aware of the current state of play in highsec with regards to bumping, and the various views that people have on it. Given the frequency that new threads have been appearing on the forums in recent weeks, I have spoken with the GM Team and have decided to open this thread for discussion of the topic. The intention of this thread is to gather questions, opinions and feedback from the player base with regards to bumping, and present them to the Senior GMs for review and responses. As of now, policy on bumping is as follows:
- Bumping in itself is not considered an exploit.
- Bumping in itself is a valid game mechanic.
- If players feel they are being repeatedly harassed despite trying to avoid this practice by all necessary means, they are free and encouraged to file a petition.
In this thread I will be gathering questions, comments, feedback and opinions regarding bumping. I will stress that any other threads on any other section of the forums that are created regarding bumping will be locked, treated as spam, and dealt with as such. This thread alone is where discussion will take place, to keep it focused and concise. I will also stress that posts of a derogatory nature, including flaming, trolling, spamming, harassment and antagonizing players will be dealt with directly, and harshly. This thread will be used for a civil discussion regarding the bumping situation. This thread will run for one week, until 17:00 on Wednesday, December 5th, after which I will close it. I will then gather responses, opinions, questions and feedback from it, before forwarding it on to the Senior GMs for review, who will then provide a response. Bear in mind that this is an issue we would like to consider from all angles, and is also being dealt with over the holiday season. As such, a response may take some time to be issued, and may end up arriving just after the New Year. I will say again, that this thread will remain civil, on topic and focused. After seeing the state that many other threads on the subject degenerated into, there will be zero tolerance for shenanigans of any kind. Please feel free to discuss in this thread, and pose questions.
Bumping to some ppl seems to mean afk miners only. Few things actually bother me personally of bumping, there are a lot of comments so Ill keep this short and sweet. Maybe including some way to balance the mass of a freighter hauling and a mine ship full of ore mining. Having some sort of dmg mechanic where collision of ships with mass multiplying mods (MWD) the smaller base mass ship will take dmg BUT will bump the ship : exp a wolf wants to MWD into a titan, wont end well for him. This would allow for unlocks to not be insane. Maybe a trigger that drops once the miner is first bumped, if the miner is bumped for longer then 10min allow a suspect flag for the bumper (don't like this idea maybe a specific flag for this not allow full aggression but allow defense from possible fleet members). This still allows bumping out of range, it still allows to punish the nasty afker freighters and miners but it also prevents that RARE cause of completely disabling a ships ability to do anything (freighter especially) without points or more reliable forms of capture. I want to catch afkers and teach them lessons and get their shines, but at the same time am a little confused on some bumping. Eve is not =/= real life I know this : Just don't understand how a "suv" can block a 18wheeler without taking dmg at all sure mass X velocity can go some great things but in reality the smaller item is normally crushed under all the forces of that type of impact. It will inflect transfer off mass but it may also destroy its self somewhat in the process. Eve books even include lines that allude to ships colliding and being destroyed. That said for the most part I think the only thing missing from bumping is a way to counter, through non AFK'able means. Almost everything in eve you can do has some sort of counter. Get ganked, fit a tank and don't be afk. Gst scammed read your buy orders or do research. Get your mission boat plewy, well should have been checking the gate with D scan or making sure probes are not out. Lose a frig with 90bill, lol but travel with a HUGE fleet for that one. The issue I see is that bumping seems to scale drastically with the risk vs reward system. The mine bumping I cant argue much agents as just moving / or paying depending on your log time : IE don't got 4 hours to mine don't mine where you need a permit as to not need to "catch up" to your cost. As for the bumping mechanics I think there are VERY few instances where this becomes a problem, there is a very fine line there. There are a number of logistical reasons to leave this alone completely, at the same time there are compelling things to look into on the freighters end. All in all if ppl were not AFK and playing properly most of this would not be issues, never travel without escort anything over ship cost for freighter.
That said I take it all back with this : NO and NOA are mostly doing what I support in game. The problem seems to be in specific instances where im looking at this being an issue. |
Sara XIII
The Carnifex Corp
128
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 22:30:00 -
[535] - Quote
Well, I'm calling it. Victory for free player interaction.
After- party in Kamio tonight! byo catalyst and positive attitude
/thread
admiral root pay me my 10 million ism! Between Ignorance and Wisdom |
Nanatoa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
187
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 22:57:00 -
[536] - Quote
Shvak wrote:the bumper is immune and fly such a cheap ship killing him makes no sense.
For the record, I fly a faction-fit Stabber Fleet Issue. It's worth considerably more than most miner ships I bump.
Repent what's past; avoid what is to come.
MinerBumping.com
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Shylari Avada
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 23:18:00 -
[537] - Quote
Shvak wrote:Watched a corp mate getting bumped despite being online. There is not much that he or I could do. A cheap Stabber not worth killing and having concord all over you. Nothing I could do to help my corp mate, the bumper is immune and fly such a cheap ship killing him makes no sense. I have no issue with bumping but I believe there must be an effective counter. I would favour a brief 10 second aggression timer (kill rights) for the ship bumped that he can react if he is not afk...
This would cause even more (hilarious) rage, miners fighting back...
This can only end well.
Edit- For clarity, your idea is terrible, it was cause rather hilarious forum posts/drama and lead to some very interesting killmails though. |
Sir Marksalot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
284
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 23:55:00 -
[538] - Quote
Anslo wrote:It may not be an issue for you, but for others it is. Otherwise, it wouldn't be here. Attempting to discredit it by repeating "why is this here" and "this is a none-issue" will not make it go away. People do not like it. Just because they aren't posting here does not mean everyone in the galaxy like this.
Did you even read their posts?
Anslo wrote:CCP did not design a game where players can exhibit out right malevolent hostility towards a group of players because they are jealous they make a few bucks shooting an NPC. Griefing is one thing. Harassing is another. Spout the EULA definition of harassment all you want, but at the end of the day, by the English definition, what is happening is harassment. I changed your post to be about people afk cloaking in nullsec. I changed one word. Both arguments are equally ridiculous. Do I need to take a picture of the orbit button for you? Anslo wrote:Tusen Takk wrote:meaningless words Ok then. In the end, I and others will still call it what it is, targeted harassment. Is it harassment if I was to park a bomber or black ops battleship in the middle of -A- sov? [quote=Shvak]Watched a corp mate getting bumped despite being online. There is not much that he or I could do. A cheap Stabber not worth killing and having concord all over you. Nothing I could do to help my corp mate, the bumper is immune and fly such a cheap ship killing him makes no sense. I have no issue with bumping but I believe there must be an effective counter. I would favour a brief 10 second aggression timer (kill rights) for the ship bumped that he can react if he is not afk. The big argument for the pro-bumpers is it combats afk mining. Which is valid, you target an afk miner, no problem. You target a miner at his keyboard and you will have to reap the whirlwind. He can then maybe be given the right to activate killrights and maybe sell it starting a 15 minute timer of open season on the bumper. It eliminates the whole we are cleaning up afk mining and takes away the immunity they currently have against normal miners. It means there is an effective counter of very short duration to bumpers without taking away their basic business model. Neither side would be totally happy
There's a whole lot wrong with this post, but I'm just going to ask that you tell him to mash the orbit button. |
xh'neivers
House of Carrikk
7
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Posted - 2012.12.04 00:01:00 -
[539] - Quote
I see lots of comments about 'emergent gameplay' often used in conjunction with almost tongue in cheek propaganda about how good this type of behavior (miner bumping) is for the game.
That seems to assume that all 'emergent gameplay' is good for the game!
Eve is a harsh game, as it should be. However there is a line that should not be crossed and the overly personal and aggressive tactics used by the bumpers is exactly what is going to put the game into a spiral of worsening social behavior. It's a abuse of a game mechanic that drives away moderate (generally industrial and hence potentially long term) players and encourages people that just play to cause as much out of game pain to others as possible - generally only ever focusing on the easiest possible targets.
CCP have challenged this behavior on the forums of late with the crack down of crap posting, verbal assaults, etc. Hopefully this will change the fact that for a long time few longer term players wanted to use or even look at the cess pool the forums had become.
The websites set up by bumpers, the 'fame' of the main organizers, etc - these people are one and the same. Before it was suicide ganking for 'lolz'. When that became too much effort, it swapped to 'bumping'. Something there is even less defense about. The fact that these are the same numpties that take pleasure in turning the game forums into such a mire CCP have had to step in and crack down should speak volumes. |
Van Kuzco
Stryker Industries Ocularis Inferno
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 00:16:00 -
[540] - Quote
Anslo wrote: You are engaging in activity with as little risk as the miners you moan and complain about. Why should your activity have risk when there's doesn't? There interaction has little reaction or activity to other players. Yours does.
What's the risk? The miner's ship is intact and all they've lost is theoretical isk that they weren't even at their keyboard to make.
You want to make a stand? Tell all the 'opposition' miners to jump in skiffs and mine in the face of bumpers. If the miners really stand on 'principle' to just not pay, then this should be no issue for them. I suggest they won't however, since most of the miners who complain here are just greedy and not willing to change anything about their own playstyle and instead just ask CCP to fix everything.
CCP already gave you the tools to counter bumping. Just not in the most efficient ship. |
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