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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
756
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:01:00 -
[91] - Quote
Rutger Janssen wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Ok, so you can't initiate a safe logoff until your timers have ended anyway. The benefit of safe logoff is:
- Unsafe logoff: you close the client, your ship turns off its modules, emergency-warps, sits in space for a minute and then disappears
- Safe logoff: you hit safe logoff, your ship sits in space for thirty seconds with its modules off, and then disappears
Other than not generating you an instant 1m km safespot, there's really no upside to unsafe logoff other than speed. Are you sure? If you unsafe log off without any timers and you're aggressed during the logoff, you will still disappear. But the safe logoff will cancel the logoff. Devblog wrote:"You have a target lock or are targeted You have aggression from players or NPCs and if they happen once the countdown is running, it'll be aborted." If you have a good enough buffer, it's safer to unsafe logoff than safe logoff as you'll disappear after 1 minute no matter what. Looks to me as an upside :)
Your wrong..... Go read CCP Masterplan's additions to the new crimewatch system....
Specifically, you can gain a PvP timer after you log off, even if you didn't have one PRIOR to logging off....
*edit to add link to relevant post* |
Ra Jackson
CRIMINALS IN ACTION Black Legion.
54
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:02:00 -
[92] - Quote
Rutger Janssen wrote:If you have a good enough buffer, it's safer to unsafe logoff than safe logoff as you'll disappear after 1 minute no matter what. Looks to me as an upside :)
1. Your disappearing countdown when aggressed is 15 minutes. 2. When someone shoots you while you're logged off this timer restarts.
So no upside really. |
San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
19
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:03:00 -
[93] - Quote
Rutger Janssen wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Ok, so you can't initiate a safe logoff until your timers have ended anyway. The benefit of safe logoff is:
- Unsafe logoff: you close the client, your ship turns off its modules, emergency-warps, sits in space for a minute and then disappears
- Safe logoff: you hit safe logoff, your ship sits in space for thirty seconds with its modules off, and then disappears
Other than not generating you an instant 1m km safespot, there's really no upside to unsafe logoff other than speed. Are you sure? If you unsafe log off without any timers and you're aggressed during the logoff, you will still disappear. But the safe logoff will cancel the logoff. Devblog wrote:"You have a target lock or are targeted You have aggression from players or NPCs and if they happen once the countdown is running, it'll be aborted." If you have a good enough buffer, it's safer to unsafe logoff than safe logoff as you'll disappear after 1 minute no matter what. Looks to me as an upside :)
I believe the changes to crime watch will address this... What they said |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
63
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:04:00 -
[94] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Jing Xin wrote:Is making it persist between sessions on the table? I'd rather just turn it off and not have to deal with various safety settings ever. I would imagine that having the safety system in "green safe mode" just wouldn't do anything in WH or null space since you don't pick up flags for doing anything there anyway. So if you live in null or WH 100% of the time you would never need to turn it off. Now if you live in lowsec this could certainly be annoying. Image the hilarity if a lowsec roaming gang jumps into a hostile gang and then discovers that half of the fleet members forgot to turn off their safeties when they logged on.
I'd like to turn it off forever because I don't spend much time in empire space. When I am in lowsec, I want to be able to shoot first without having to remember a setting I never use and then navigate a menu. Odds are good I'd forget until I landed on someone, went for the tackle, and then realized none of my modules were working because it's trying to keep me from losing sec status. It's a lot faster to mash Enter than it is to click through the safety settings menu, especially if it then gives me a "do you really want to do this?" popup for turning off the safety. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
798
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:04:00 -
[95] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Specifically, you can gain a PvP timer after you log off, even if you didn't have one PRIOR to logging off....
You're not getting quite enough glee and hand rubbing into that statement. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Ra Jackson
CRIMINALS IN ACTION Black Legion.
54
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:06:00 -
[96] - Quote
ROXGenghis wrote:The new safety system is pretty terrible for me, as a FW pilot in lowsec.
Case 1: In a big furball, I want to be able to shoot a neutral but can't because my safety won't let me. Case 2: In the same furball, I don't want to accidentally shoot a neutral but do because my safety didn't stop me. Case 3: As a logi pilot, I want to rep a friendly who is "gcc" but can't because my safety won't let me. Case 4: As a logi pilot, I don't want to accidentally rep a friendly who is "gcc" but I do because my safety didn't stop me.
My point is, the current popup system is very useful when you're in grey areas where you aren't a pure "good guy white night anti-pirate carebear" or "bad guy flashy pirate ganker." The new system will make life very difficult for morally complex people.
Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec. |
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:11:00 -
[97] - Quote
Ra Jackson wrote:ROXGenghis wrote:The new safety system is pretty terrible for me, as a FW pilot in lowsec.
Case 1: In a big furball, I want to be able to shoot a neutral but can't because my safety won't let me. Case 2: In the same furball, I don't want to accidentally shoot a neutral but do because my safety didn't stop me. Case 3: As a logi pilot, I want to rep a friendly who is "gcc" but can't because my safety won't let me. Case 4: As a logi pilot, I don't want to accidentally rep a friendly who is "gcc" but I do because my safety didn't stop me.
My point is, the current popup system is very useful when you're in grey areas where you aren't a pure "good guy white night anti-pirate carebear" or "bad guy flashy pirate ganker." The new system will make life very difficult for morally complex people. Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.
You notice that you can't rep him, you then choose to adjust your safety, or not. Adjusting your safety is as easy as activating a module. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Talocan United
54
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:13:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Eli Green wrote:Jing Xin wrote:I hope safety setting is persistent through docking, jumping, logging off. If it constantly defaults to green, some people will be seriously annoyed. currently unless it has changed since last week it is not persistant Should be persisted per session, but not currently between sessions (see above). Ie, so long as you stay logged in, it stays the same; log out and it goes back to default.
You guys are working on a way to make it persist though yeah? So once we turn it off, its just off. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
756
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:14:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ra Jackson wrote:ROXGenghis wrote:The new safety system is pretty terrible for me, as a FW pilot in lowsec.
Case 1: In a big furball, I want to be able to shoot a neutral but can't because my safety won't let me. Case 2: In the same furball, I don't want to accidentally shoot a neutral but do because my safety didn't stop me. Case 3: As a logi pilot, I want to rep a friendly who is "gcc" but can't because my safety won't let me. Case 4: As a logi pilot, I don't want to accidentally rep a friendly who is "gcc" but I do because my safety didn't stop me.
My point is, the current popup system is very useful when you're in grey areas where you aren't a pure "good guy white night anti-pirate carebear" or "bad guy flashy pirate ganker." The new system will make life very difficult for morally complex people. Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.
A couple points here ROX:
A. Criminal flags only happen when a person shoots a neutral POD in lowsec, or illegally aggresses in highsec. As such, it's much harder for your fleet mate to go GCC. For the morally complex, just don't shoot neutral Pods and everything is pretty simple.
B. Switching Safety's "seems" like it will be moderately easy, and fluid... so it switching the safety off for a battle shouldn't be too complicated.
C. I agree the pop-up system is useful at times, but it is also cumbersome at times too! |
Tiregn
Royal Blue Industries
16
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:16:00 -
[100] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Eli Green wrote:Jing Xin wrote:I hope safety setting is persistent through docking, jumping, logging off. If it constantly defaults to green, some people will be seriously annoyed. currently unless it has changed since last week it is not persistant Should be persisted per session, but not currently between sessions (see above). Ie, so long as you stay logged in, it stays the same; log out and it goes back to default.
This is unacceptable. You can't throw something like this on the thousands of people that don't give a flying beep about it, and not make it always persistent. You have to change this. |
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Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
1911
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:17:00 -
[101] - Quote
Something that doesn't seem to have been covered...
The new "safe logoff" doesn't allow you to have any modules active or similar, which is fine, but what about using the directional scanner? Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Borgholio
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
5
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:24:00 -
[102] - Quote
This will definitely help make sense of those obscure wardec mechanics. "Player A can rep player B but cannot attack Player C unless fired upon first...etc..." You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
Plaude Pollard
Crimson Cartel
90
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:30:00 -
[103] - Quote
Oh god... For a second I actually feared that you had added a way to let people choose not to be in danger at the expense of not being able to shoot at others... At least I was greatly mistaken, and for that, I am grateful. Looks like this is going to be a very nice change. No more annoying pop-ups in Empire-space. I like that. New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of your choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
756
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:31:00 -
[104] - Quote
Thoughts:
1.) When I imagine changing the "safety" settings, I always imagined something in the escape menus that would pull me away from what's happing in space around me. I applaud the little UI button that clearly indicates my safety setting, and enables me to change it fluidly during a battle. With that said, I would like to be able to define my 'default' setting. I understand the need for everyone's default to be "safe" to start, but I really think having to switch it from safe to partially safe or living dangerous every time I log in is excessive. This is really only a minor gripe though....
2.) Do you have to come to a complete stop to "safe" logoff? It really sounded like you do, which is awkward: --- If you can't move, you can't be aligned to escape assuming a hostile enter's grid. Many players often counter enemy probes by aligning to a warp out, and warping the moment a hostile enters the grid, but if they have to align from rest first, larger ships will be easily caught. --- Essentially the upcoming changes mean you can NOT easily escape from hostiles probing for you by logging out.... even if you are safe at the moment by being at a random bookmark and cloaked. This is detrimental to any supercap pilot that attempts to log out in space when a determined opponent is in system. Their only options are to log out inside a POS, or to cyno out of the system. Perhaps reduce the "safe" logoff timer to 20 seconds, and then the window to catch these ships is small enough to make it generally possible.
3.) Overall, these are good changes... Thank you for your work!
4.) Are you planning to create a "system" safety settings too.... with an easily alterable HUD element that prevents you from entering highsec (while gcc) or lower sec (while risk-adverse)? |
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
38
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:34:00 -
[105] - Quote
Seems like a good consolidation of the existing "Are you sure you want to do that?" popups and settings, but...
Since our current settings for suppressing those warnings are persistent between sessions, why on earth is this setting not?
I really fail to see the issue with having it be persistent, or at least letting us select a toggle to "Remember safety settings" for those that want to use it (which I suspect would be a whole bunch of people, not least of all everyone in losec and those hisec denizens that just love greeting people with the warm embrace of a half dozen fresh rounds). |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
756
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:34:00 -
[106] - Quote
Vegare wrote:Quote:- Yes, it will. We're cognizant of the small additional load that this puts on people who regularly want it off; we don't believe the load is much larger than the one already incurred by eg having to turn on your hardeners all the time, so we don't believe it's a *major* problem, but we're also not totally happy with it (as we're not for hardeners either) and we'd like to find a clean way to persist it between sessions without violating its primary goals. This is rediculous! On the one hand you say you want to make our lives easier when going on a lowsec roam by removing annoying pop ups (which have a checkbox to only show them once). On the other hand you make us toggle our safeties after _every_ session change? Quote: so we don't believe it's a *major* problem You're wrong.
They don't mean you have to toggle the safeties every "session change".
They mean you have to toggle the safeties every time you Log Onto your Character.
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Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:41:00 -
[107] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Vegare wrote:Quote:- Yes, it will. We're cognizant of the small additional load that this puts on people who regularly want it off; we don't believe the load is much larger than the one already incurred by eg having to turn on your hardeners all the time, so we don't believe it's a *major* problem, but we're also not totally happy with it (as we're not for hardeners either) and we'd like to find a clean way to persist it between sessions without violating its primary goals. This is rediculous! On the one hand you say you want to make our lives easier when going on a lowsec roam by removing annoying pop ups (which have a checkbox to only show them once). On the other hand you make us toggle our safeties after _every_ session change? Quote: so we don't believe it's a *major* problem You're wrong. They don't mean you have to toggle the safeties every "session change". They mean you have to toggle the safeties every time you Log Onto your Character.
Kind of like needing to disengage your safetly each time you go target shooting. At least it's not between each target, like you should do IRL.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
339
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:41:00 -
[108] - Quote
minus the big numbers and color coding wasn't this already a feature? I know I always get a warning in high sec when I accidentally try to mine something not a rock. I just assume I'm always one click away from stupid death.. it makes me careful. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Vegare
Stranger Things A Point In Space
60
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:43:00 -
[109] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
They don't mean you have to toggle the safeties every "session change".
They mean you have to toggle the safeties every time you Log Onto your Character.
phew... thy |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5609
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:47:00 -
[110] - Quote
Lord Azori wrote:Can a dev please confirm if this is the case for WH and Null dwellers? As in there is effectively no safety in those locations? Also, please please please, let me set my default and hide the safety button.
The safety setting is completely irrelevant in nullsec/wormholes on Buckingham. ~*a-áproud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
339
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:49:00 -
[111] - Quote
So you have a repper on.. and your power goes out so that you can't log back in right away; how long does your ship sit there in space now that an active mod running does let your ship logout? [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Luc Chastot
Moira. Villore Accords
93
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:49:00 -
[112] - Quote
Does the security button remember your choice between sessions? Last time I tested it it didn't; I had to set it to yellow every time I logged. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
16
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:52:00 -
[113] - Quote
Will these safety locks also prevent logistics from repping pilots with <-5.0 faction status so that they won' ge targeted by the faction police? The bad faction aggrro isone othelast 'silent aggro' problems that incursioners still run into. Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
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ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
48
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Posted - 2012.11.27 17:54:00 -
[114] - Quote
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:Ra Jackson wrote: Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.
You notice that you can't rep him, you then choose to adjust your safety, or not. Adjusting your safety is as easy as activating a module. Will it be as fast to adjust your safety as clicking through the gcc warning? If so, great. But I suspect not; for the gcc warning I can just hit enter or tab enter (don't remember whether "yes" or "no" is default). To adjust safety, don't I have to open the safety dialogue, then move the mouse to choose one of the safety settings? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2039
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Posted - 2012.11.27 18:01:00 -
[115] - Quote
What about putting in a practical "Safe log off button" that does what's needed to perform the safe log off? IE it turns off modules, stops the ships and stops whatever blocks the safe log off process and only then it initiates the safe log off?
It'd be useful in some of my ships where I'd have to go click 6-7 buttons and that's :effort: Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
280
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Posted - 2012.11.27 18:01:00 -
[116] - Quote
ROXGenghis wrote:Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:Ra Jackson wrote: Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.
You notice that you can't rep him, you then choose to adjust your safety, or not. Adjusting your safety is as easy as activating a module. Will it be as fast to adjust your safety as clicking through the gcc warning? If so, great. But I suspect not; for the gcc warning I can just hit enter or tab enter (don't remember whether "yes" or "no" is default). To adjust safety, don't I have to open the safety dialogue, then move the mouse to choose one of the safety settings?
Sounds like what you'll want to do most of the time is have your safety partial or off and make judgement calls of what to shoot or rep. It's just a lock to catch you for those weird edge cases.
If you don't like the safety, turn it off and leave it there. |
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
52
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Posted - 2012.11.27 18:02:00 -
[117] - Quote
I don't know if this will help anyone else, but I immediately needed to see the charts from the other blog showing what flags are incurred with what actions, and what you are vulnerable to when those flags are applied to you. Here's the links if you were wanting to see the same thing, but forgot to look at the other blog again.
what flags you - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_actions2flags.png
when you are flagged - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_flags2consequences.png
I can kill you with my brain too. It's genetic. |
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.11.27 18:05:00 -
[118] - Quote
ROXGenghis wrote:Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:Ra Jackson wrote: Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.
You notice that you can't rep him, you then choose to adjust your safety, or not. Adjusting your safety is as easy as activating a module. Will it be as fast to adjust your safety as clicking through the gcc warning? If so, great. But I suspect not; for the gcc warning I can just hit enter or tab enter (don't remember whether "yes" or "no" is default). To adjust safety, don't I have to open the safety dialogue, then move the mouse to choose one of the safety settings?
It might take a half second longer. "Click button, select option, let mouse button go"
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1165
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Posted - 2012.11.27 18:12:00 -
[119] - Quote
Tetsel wrote:And when will Mr Greyscale stop spending his time on un-EVEish / useless feature ? Kinda fed up of CCP thinking EvE player should be treated like stupid children.....
A lot of them are now.
Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
756
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Posted - 2012.11.27 18:16:00 -
[120] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:So you have a repper on.. and your power goes out so that you can't log back in right away; how long does your ship sit there in space now that an active mod running does let your ship logout?
This depends on the state of timers:
A.) Assuming you have no timers: Your ship will ewarp 1m km's and, assuming no one aggresses you, will despawn after ONE minute. ---- Note: It is possible for someone to scan you down within that 1 minute and aggress you. If they do, you will gain a PvP timer that prevents your ship from despawning for 15 minutes. This timer will be renewed with any additional acts of aggression, pretty much meaning your ship dies.
B.) Assuming you currently have an NPC timer: Your ship will attempt to ewar 1m km's. This ewarp can be inhibited by any warp scrambling effect (most likely from NPC rats in this case). Assuming no-player aggersses you, your ship will despawn after the FIVE minute NPC timer ends. ---- Note: It is possible for someone to scan you down within that 5 minutes and aggress you. If they do, you will gain a PvP timer that prevents your ship from despawning for 15 minutes. Same as above... you probably die if this happens.
C.) Assuming you currently have a PvP timer: Your ship will attempt to ewarp 1m km's. This ewarp can be inhibited by any warp scrambling effect. Assuming no new players aggress you, your ship will despawn after the FIFTEEN minute PvP timer ends. ---- Note: It is possible for someone to attack your ship within that 15 minutes and aggress you. If they do, your PvP timer is renewed, and your ship will not despawn for at least 15 minutes. In this case, you will probably die... |
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