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Vengeance Thirst
Sons Of Decebal
0
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Posted - 2012.11.24 07:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
1) The problem
Hi
I am a plex paying player fro over 6 years now, with 4 accounts (2 inactive atm). I love this game for 2 awesome reasons, and that is the way the pvp rules are made. I love pvp and no other game offers the freedom that eve does, and the one huge world/server thing (i hate games with pvp servers/, pve servers,and so on).
But life as a pvper is not always kill people with a blob, and the way i like to pvp allot of times gets me killed (i like to try and go against the ods) so as everyone knows pvp in eve = loosing ships = way of income to make that isk = allot of time spent not pvping but playing what it is for me the "suck version" of eve.
Now before the miners and ratters start jumping on my head I have to say that the way we play the game is a choice and if you guys like to do all that pve/industry stuff its fine i'm not judging, i started as a miner after all.
So looking at today's markets, for ship prices and plex you can see how I have a issue. At this moment I have to spend like a good week making just the isk for 2/4 plexes wich is very hard for someone that doesn't enjoy doing all that pve stuff. After that if i'm not getting the emo rage feel for ratting or w/e the f*** i do for plex isk, i have to start do it again so i can have the isk to replace the lost ships.
Adding to the problem is CCP who constantly tries to find more reasons to sell plexes other that paying the monthly subscriptions. (aur store, tournament signup taxes, selling rl items for aur)
All that sums up for someone like me to one thing: more time to make isk = less time to have fun in eve.
Anyway that is the problem from my point of view. Here is the solution:
2) The solution
The solution I came up with is simple:
- Invent a new coin that is not plex related. That new currency will be used for any reason ccp might like (tournamen fees, rl item store, etc...) but will not be used to pay for the subscriptions, and remove the 30 day plex need for those.
Keep the plexes just for the subscriptions.
The new currency will also, just like plex, be trade able on eve markets so that people with allot of isk can buy those and signup for tourneys or w/e.
NOTE: At the time of this message plex prices are down to 570mil from what it was a couple days ago 720.
Question for CCP: In the world of economics, what is better: sell 100 items at the price of 10 dollars or sell 1000 items at the price of 1 dollar?
I hope you realize that selling more cheaper is the way to go and if you don't get that let me just say this: The cheaper plexes are the easier it is for plex paying players to get into and enjoy the game and as in my case instead of having 4 active accounts I only have 2 wich translating into "money for ccp" means 40 bucks a month income instead of 80.
I hope someone at CCP reads this and finds it useful.
Thanks for reading it and sorry if I offended anyone I was not intentional.
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Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
59
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Posted - 2012.11.24 07:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Forcing people to use isk for aurum, account trades, and tourneys always confused me. Plex is the ultimate pay to win feature. It is unnessecary to force people to consume it. If a guy wants to buy new pants why can't he do it with isk? Someone who wants to pay real money for it will just buy plex and give it to a player then spend this isk. CCP makes the same net amount of cash and freeloading players are happy to provide more content.
This new "coin" has always been their in the form of isk. More **** for bears to buy = more reasons for them to shell out them big bucks for plex to trade for isk.
I have always looked down on tinfoil hatters. I thought they were tards looking for something bigger to ***** about in their vidya game. However the only thing I can come up with that explains why they would do this is to make plex prices go up so more IRL carebears will spend more IRL isk on plex due to its increased isk value. All the while hoping us players don't stop buying in increased volume. I'm sure it was that damn economics professors idea... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2992
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Posted - 2012.11.24 07:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
You could always just pay for the game or play on one account and spend all your ISK on having fun. Just an idea.
How do you think this idea of yours will fix your problem? The reason people buy these products from CCP is to make as much ISK as possible for themselves. If the better product is your new token, they won't be beying PLEXs to sell to you, which will increase the price of PLEX. If the PLEX is the better product, no one is buying your new token, which will retain the current situation. Either way the PLEX price isn't going to significantly come down, since the price is determined by the players themselves.
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Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
59
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Posted - 2012.11.24 07:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:You could always just pay for the game or play on one account and spend all your ISK on having fun. Just an idea.
How do you think this idea of yours will fix your problem? The reason people buy these products from CCP is to make as much ISK as possible for themselves. If the better product is your new token, they won't be beying PLEXs to sell to you, which will increase the price of PLEX. If the PLEX is the better product, no one is buying your new token, which will retain the current situation. Either way the PLEX price isn't going to significantly come down, since the price is determined by the players themselves.
If you gotta spend all your RL isk on food or your wife bitches at you for spending money more than once on a video game then plex may be the only option. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Minty Moon
4
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Posted - 2012.11.24 09:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maybe have less accounts?
I pay via plex, I used to have 3 accounts now im down to 2 due to rl reason of not being able to be on enough to make enough isk.
Theres nothing wrong with plex prices, they've been driven up sure do to a number of reasons, but they wont go up higher then people are willing to pay for them. And as long as their is a demand for plex from players going in on a tournament or wanting to pay their account, they really have no reason to lower prices drastically until people start buying less. It's a pain in the ass that im paying close to twice as much as back in the day, but the market has spoken.
And im sure the higher plex prices are the more people that are going to want to buy time codes to trade to get a better bang for their buck (Player Opened Direct Wormholes) (Expanding on Wormholes) |
GizzyBoy
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
21
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Posted - 2012.11.24 10:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its annoying its so high, but the people buying them with real money arn't complaining.
I have 2 accounts i pay subscription for, and a 3rd one i pay with plex for. Apart from considering to use rl money for plex, you mention you die alot..
Perhaps you should try to work on dying less as means of cutting expenditure? or cut back on unnecessary implants or something?
like set-up your clones to only carry the 2 implants for the thing it is that your skilling? |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
28
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Posted - 2012.11.24 17:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
There's never going to be anything "wrong" with PLEX prices. They are determined by free market forces, and thus pretty much AUTOMATICALLY make CCP the maximum amount of money possible.
PLEX could cost 2 billion isk each, and it wouldn't matter. That would still be close to the optimal price given those circumstances.
History shows us that CCP could make even more money if they could devise some way to do micro payments for things, but it would be very tricky to implement such a thing, given Eve's current setup and the potential for alt abuse. And it would certainly NOT make it any cheaper to play the game for free in the process. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10728
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Posted - 2012.11.24 18:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Plex is the ultimate pay to win feature. It's not pay to win.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Vengeance Thirst
Sons Of Decebal
0
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Posted - 2012.11.24 18:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
I can totally understand most comments here. But what ccp needs to understand is that current plex prices = 2 out of 4 accounts active. Plex reaches 700mill again = me close 3rd account possibly 4th.
As for paying with real money.... not everyone has a 1500$ minimum wage. I live in a fking 3rd world country where 20 bucks a month is 10% of what i make. So excuse me for working just as much as a american or Canadian or w/e... maybe more actually, and not been paid the same.
Bottom line: I realize that they try to keep the apprentice that the prices are driven by market demand and all that economical talk... but if that's true than how the hell plex prices go up with every tournament, and why do they sell rl **** for plex.
Yes prices are dictated by the market but they should stop providing reasons for people to buy plexes other than game time.
Need I remind you that 4-5 years ago or so you used to pay 250mill for a 90day game time code?
CCP is milking this **** as much as possible and they're fking up the game doing it. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10728
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Posted - 2012.11.24 18:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vengeance Thirst wrote:CCP is milking this **** as much as possible and they're fking up the game doing it. How exactly are CCP milking this?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
807
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Posted - 2012.11.24 21:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't know much about the tournaments, I'll admit, but does anyone really think they account for even a fraction of the weekly PLEX trade in Jita? Over two thousand are sold there every day according to the market history thingy.
How many of those go to the tournaments, to aurum, transfers or whatever? I bet it's less than 10%. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
61
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Posted - 2012.11.24 23:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:I don't know much about the tournaments, I'll admit, but does anyone really think they account for even a fraction of the weekly PLEX trade in Jita? Over two thousand are sold there every day according to the market history thingy.
How many of those go to the tournaments, to aurum, transfers or whatever? I bet it's less than 10%.
every little bit hurts, not to mention CCP obviously wanted aurum to be more important when they introduced it. Turns out nobody cares about my avatars clothes if they can't see them.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
GizzyBoy
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
21
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Posted - 2012.11.24 23:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
to encourage more people to move to a longer subscription time, i think im 6 months atm, they could offer a free plex with every 12 month subscription, and that ought to pump up the numbers of plex available,
but it might lower there over all plex income. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
61
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Posted - 2012.11.24 23:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
GizzyBoy wrote:to encourage more people to move to a longer subscription time, i think im 6 months atm, they could offer a free plex with every 12 month subscription, and that ought to pump up the numbers of plex available,
but it might lower there over all plex income. By almost 8% probably, every dedicated eve nerd would do it unless they were that rich they didn't give a **** about free isk. Bad idea to give away free stuff when it's the only thing that your company makes money on at all. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Dori Tos
Galactic Innovations
3
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Posted - 2012.11.25 00:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:GizzyBoy wrote:to encourage more people to move to a longer subscription time, i think im 6 months atm, they could offer a free plex with every 12 month subscription, and that ought to pump up the numbers of plex available,
but it might lower there over all plex income. By almost 8% probably, every dedicated eve nerd would do it unless they were that rich they didn't give a **** about free isk. Bad idea to give away free stuff when it's the only thing that your company makes money on at all.
It's also a really bad idea to spend most of that income on developing 2 crappy games that no one in the world actually give a frak about instead of spending it on developing WIS, the only platform that could support a thriving micro transaction market, and quite possibly a F2P model that could provide them a better income and us more iskies to have fun, and could also finally put eve on the mainstream mmo radar.But no,instead they create plex sinks to insure them more income to develop their vampire dust for sony crap.
But w/e let's just shut up and pay our plex.
I'm delicious. |
Minty Moon
5
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Posted - 2012.11.25 01:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
No offense, but I don't think you understand. You're not buying plex from CCP themselves, CCP already got the money from whoever purchased it to sell on the market for ISK. So closing down accounts you never actually pay for doesn't really effect them in any way really. The people you bought plex from are still going to continue to sell plex on the market.
This isn't a plex pricing problem, this is an you trying to spend out of your means problem. I understand wanting to play, no problem with that. But really balance your budget, drop to 1-2 accounts and live under your means.
We're essentially working to earn fake money to trade to someone for real money so we can continue earning fake money. I think the person using real money should have more say on how much his dollar is worth inside a game
Also I really don't appreciate the "excuse me for not earning as much as an american" comment. I understand ****** wages, they blow everywhere, but also cost of living is different everywhere. I make 500-600 a month atm, cheapest rent in my county with out moving out to the slums or desert where there is no work for me is anywhere between 850-1100 a month. If i wanted to move to the slums to be lulled to sleep by the sounds of gun shots in the night I'm sure i could find a studio for 600 maybe >_>
Things get more expensive, you really just need to learn to adapt. Ships were a lot cheaper as well 4-5 years ago. Orca's used to cost 400mil just last year, now they're up to what 700mil now. I used to sell retrievers in nullsec at 10mil a pop and that used to be gouging now its borderline underselling lol. And that's why they sell PLEX to buy ships and modules and other stuff, if those prices go up naturally they're going to try and get more out of their money. If you want those to go back down, tell CCP to bring back all the botters, drone poop, seed t2 bpo's. Crash the market so everything costs pennies and they wont need to sell PLEX for 700mil to buy only a few battleships.
PLEX isn't sold as a service for all of us that can't pay, its sold for all those people that can't play enough to earn the bigger ships. Or those reckless PVPers who arent interested in making isk and just want to shoot things no matter how many ships they lose, but they earn enough out of game to throw a few more dollars in so they can afford to purchase on the free market to buy capitals that they can enjoy purely till its blown up, plex buy another and do it all over again.
If you really want to keep a standard price maybe find a friend that sells plex and see if he'll cut you a break if you're constantly buying from him
or you know next time CCP announces an event or anything that will require people to use plex for, buy up enough to get you through till after the event when prices drop a bit again. They aren't that bad at the moment i'm seeing 589mil atm (Player Opened Direct Wormholes) (Expanding on Wormholes) |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
28
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Posted - 2012.11.26 00:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vengeance Thirst wrote:I can totally understand most comments here. But what ccp needs to understand is that current plex prices = 2 out of 4 accounts active. Plex reaches 700mill again = me close 3rd account possibly 4th.
As for paying with real money.... not everyone has a 1500$ minimum wage. I live in a fking 3rd world country where 20 bucks a month is 10% of what i make. So excuse me for working just as much as a american or Canadian or w/e... maybe more actually, and not been paid the same.
Bottom line: I realize that they try to keep the apprentice that the prices are driven by market demand and all that economical talk... but if that's true than how the hell plex prices go up with every tournament, and why do they sell rl **** for plex.
Yes prices are dictated by the market but they should stop providing reasons for people to buy plexes other than game time.
Need I remind you that 4-5 years ago or so you used to pay 250mill for a 90day game time code?
CCP is milking this **** as much as possible and they're fking up the game doing it.
No, what YOU don't understand is that CCP has nothing directly to do with plex prices. Players and how much they are willing to pay are what determines plex prices. If the price is at 700 million, thats because there are enough players WILLING to pay 700 million to keep it there. Some people like you may close some accounts, but there are more than enough to replace you who are willing to pay that much. Otherwise the price wouldn't be there. Simple as that.
Also, you seem to believe that most players have multiple accounts, which they almost certainly do not.
And the only way that CCP DOES minorly affect the rates is by things like aurum. Which are not "milking" anything. They are obviously nice perks that people actually enjoy. Otherwise they wouldn't be in demand... |
Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
411
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Posted - 2012.11.26 01:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
i like PLEX where its at, i drive trucks and get to play at most 3 days ever 4 weeks,
i give CCP money.
i give someone game time.
and i get pile of isk, to blowup or use to blow up stuff.
PLEX is FINE A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |
Vengeance Thirst
Sons Of Decebal
0
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Posted - 2012.11.26 10:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Out of what happens with plex prices right now only people that are happy are plex sellers.
Yes i can see how me closing the remaining 2 accounts can make ccp not give a rats fk about it and i got no problem there.
But how many people that play the game in my situation would have 1 or 2 or 3 more active accounts if plex prices will be back down to lets say 1-200mill a pop??
Wouldn't that make ccp more money as they would sell more a month?
All this **** started to happen when the took out the 60 and 90 day gtc's offers. I remember I used to rat for like 6h and i had my first 2 accounts payed for 3 months each. That was it, everything else for 3 months was pure gaming pleasure.
I know that they wont go back to that but still you cant tell me that the plex market is driven by players since ccp is dictating the terms under which the supply and demand rules apply.
Also if you think that tournaments don't affect the game allot think of it like this:
With every tournament plexes got a little higher and after they dint came back to what it was.
I simply don't understand why ccp can see this: easier it is for people to pay with plex = more accounts active = more money to be made.
If 1 plex seller makes 800mill with a plex sold and hes happy, that's fine he payd 20 bucks for 800mil from ccp but who ever buys that plex. who ever needs it to stay in game makes a real huge effort to do so.
I personally brought to the game 3 people back in the old days (the days of the 250-350mil 90day gtc) and back then it took them about a month to get caldari raven skills + side skills to earn enough running lvl4's to keep their accounts up on their own.
Couple months later all of them had at least a second account and we all had fun enjoying the game.
Today out of those 3 (a total of like 10 accounts in the end) only one occasionally gets in game with hes main character . When i talked to them about why not log in anymore they told me they no longer finding it fun to grind for isk just to stay in game.
Today 2 new guys ... noobs I meat on my country chat chan are under my training program... first thing hey ask me is: "how long do we need to train in order to earn enough to pay for our own accounts with isk?" I told them that if done right about a month but instead of lvl4 runing I redirected them for ratting in 0.0 since that's where i live now and focused the skill training on that.
Bottom line as this will probably my last message on this matter is this:
I have 4 accounts 2 are inactive because i cant get myself to do all the stuff i need to do to get the extra 1.1k mil a month for them.
I really don't see a issue with ccp at least trying to invent a new coin or use the aur thing but without the plex relation. The new coin been just for commodity thingys or w/e and tourney participation would be sold on eve site and trade able on eve markets for isk for w/e wants to use the isk for those. Leaving plex just for the subscriptions.
That's one solution other been returning to the old buy more get a lil extra ways as in a small reduction in price for those that buy 3 or 6 months of game time, making more plexes available in eve.
At least for a year I propose ccp tries that and check 2 things: the number of new subscriptions and the number of old accounts reactivated.
If i am wrong they can just get back to this mess and stay like this.
Hope someone at ccp actually reads this forums and he actually matters over there and hes not just the janitor or w/e. |
Ryshca
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2012.11.26 11:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
What a sad story about you and your boyfriends, but did you ever consider to pay rl money for EvE as it was supposed to be? Then you wouldn't spend all the time farming isk for a PLEX and you can enjoy the game. Problem solved.
PS: The only interesting change on the PLEX would be if you regulate it's trading. I.E. if you buy a PLEX you got no other choise than to convert it directly into Aurum (or however its called), extend your subscription, pay for a new account, pay for character transfer etc., no more reselling. The main problem are the speculators most likely, they buy PLEXs to sell them to a later time. A very save way to make money, since the PLEX only know the way up in price. |
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