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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1527
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Posted - 2012.11.24 07:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:For discussion sake, what if there was no option to move back towards positive once a player heads down the negative path? While the loss for podding other players should be revised to not be such a drastic drop so quickly, once a player takes that step towards the "dark side", why should there be any chance of redemption?
This could create low sec trade hubs where negative sec players could buy and sell goods without worrying about stepping into goodie two-shoes lands. And while someone could state to just use an alt to trade directly, perhaps the direct dealings with a known negative stat pilot will push a subtle negative status onto the alt. Using a real life example, if I am considered a law abiding citizen and been seen dealing with known gang bangers, the police will keep an eye upon me too.
Just a thought instead of the quick fix, if any fix, ideas in this thread. Sure, why not. But you also have to agree that mission runners, upon killing any vessel of any faction while running a mission for a faction of their choosing, would immediately and permanently become hated enemies with the faction of the vessel they shot, to the point that entering that faction's space would immediately summon the system's whole faction fleet. Furthermore, they would never be able to dock at that faction's stations again. Oh, and those penalties would also apply with friends of the faction whose vessel was destroyed.
If we're going to go for the "permanent consequences in a game" thing, they should apply to everyone, right?
Mars Theran wrote:Aren't they already putting in the option to buy your way to +5 for ~150 million ISK, or did that change? Where did you hear that? As far as I know, no such thing was announced, or even talked about by the developers. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1408
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 07:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
I think some of you guys are making it into a bigger deal than it is. We're just talking about sidestepping some grind, really. No path walked is absolute in eve. Things are dynamic... people might want to be a pirate for a while and once they have enough isk become a corrupt industrial. Looking at gameplay in binary terms or putting constraints on behavior/consequences and whatever are not really conducive to sandbox gameplay. Buying sec status w/ PLEX can be done by extension by turning PLEX (or aurem or whatever) into ISK and buying into the mechanic, but PLEX shouldn't be a direct facet of the mechanic. With regards to tags... well let's face it, grinding sucks. But all of us pay other people to grind. You buy a ship and some fool had to mine the minerals that went into it. Some other guy had to produce your ship. Others produced your mods or got them from killing NPCs (another kind of grind). We all pay for grind. So why do people grind at all? Ultimately it's for ISK. I hate grind. I've done a lot of grind. I'm sick to death of grind and I think if I have the ISK to pay someone else to grind and they are happy to take my ISK, there shouldn't be a problem. The problem with direct injection of PLEX is that people actually doing the grinding get cut out. That's where I think it can be a bit unfair. EvE is supposed to level the playing field... no buying a win with RL cash. If you are buying something in ISK it's fine because some other non-RL cash paying player is getting more ISK at your expense. If you are just paying cash to CCP you are in effect 'buying a win'. So that's why ISK trumps RL cash in game. I have no problem paying ridiculous amounts of ISK for sec status. I would have a problem if you could do it directly with cash. I'm not trying to convince anyone here. I'm just explaining why PLEX for sec isn't going to happen, and that CCP already has a pretty good grasp of this concept.
BTW - if you think aurem has any value you should play DUST before you go buying a whole lot of it. Just my 2 ISK...
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2000
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Posted - 2012.11.24 07:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sec status should not repair itself over time. A crime was committed and someone needs to do the time. Now if a system was created so a criminal could pay another player to do it for them, that feels very EVE to me honestly.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2012.11.24 08:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Sure, why not. But you also have to agree that mission runners, upon killing any vessel of any faction while running a mission for a faction of their choosing, would immediately and permanently become hated enemies with the faction of the vessel they shot, to the point that entering that faction's space would immediately summon the system's whole faction fleet. Furthermore, they would never be able to dock at that faction's stations again. Oh, and those penalties would also apply with friends of the faction whose vessel was destroyed.
If we're going to go for the "permanent consequences in a game" thing, they should apply to everyone, right?
I agree 110%... I was always baffled at how casual your enemy reacts around your presence. Instead of opening fire upon you, they seem more prone to rattle their sabres (the sword) and shake their fists until you make a move against them (again).
Whereas I have done the one mission GE a few times over the years (just do not have the real life time to do much in game, but I digress), just how many assets were stolen, lives lost (in a role playing sense), and ships destroyed for the Guristas? So why don't they send deadlier ships after me? Why not the option to pod me if they breach my ship and get to me? Why not set-up an ambush as I casually move from system to system in a shuttle?
As for the penalties to apply to friends of a faction - a cascading scale could be used. If I destroyed enough Gallente ships that they utterly hate me and you are friends to Gallente, there should be a negative between us. But I do not feel it should be a direct even exchange since that would be open for abuse.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1527
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Posted - 2012.11.24 08:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Well, I'm surprised you agreed, because usually people come back with a "fuk u gankbear i shud playz how i wants" type of response.
But I was being sarcastic. Both of our ideas would be game-breaking, unless the effectiveness of all NPC police entities is significantly reduced. My idea is especially bad, because it would make the game not fun to play for a whole lot of people. Your idea just encourages alt usage. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2012.11.24 08:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Your "solution" to not being able to rebuild sec status would end up with everyone eventually having a lower sec status, especially on an open market and with public contracts. It's a bad idea to begin with, but then you open it up for griefing in the hopes of stopping griefing. Furthermore, you'd have to remove the moratorium on disposing of negative sec alts for the same reason: everyone would eventually get hit by that.
I would request that the penalty losses be revised to be not so drastic initially to avoid someone having an accidental moment to be stuck in a permanent hole. Splattering one pod could be explained as a self-defense moment. A couple thousand pods later, the authorities mark you as a serial killer. Dealing with one pod killing pilot does not get you noticed by the authorities. "Hidden" transactions with a known murderer should subtly affect those that directly deal with that person.
Revision to my initial idea - what if once you head down the negative path, you can work your way back up, but can never be positive? That is, one pod kill whether accidental or intentional, will have you at -0.01 no matter how much good you do - a Scarlet Letter per se?
I thought disposing of negative sec alts was a no-no with CCP? Not that I am naive to believe it is not done, but still... |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1527
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 08:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
You don't really "kill" anyone in EVE, and as such, there's no "murder" to speak of. In fact, pod losses on average amount to much lower financial losses than ship losses. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2012.11.24 08:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Well, I'm surprised you agreed, because usually people come back with a "fuk u gankbear i shud playz how i wants" type of response.
But I was being sarcastic. Both of our ideas would be game-breaking, unless the effectiveness of all NPC police entities is significantly reduced. My idea is especially bad, because it would make the game not fun to play for a whole lot of people. Your idea just encourages alt usage.
Nahhh - I am one of those older (bitter?) vets that remembers when Eve was truly cold and harsh. Now-a-days it seems (to me) to be a bit more along the lines of warm and fuzzy.
Our ideas would have to be fleshed out with changes to the current game. Adding our ideas "as is" would really cause the game to be lopsided to those not ~built~ that way.
"...it would make the game not fun to play for a whole lot of people." - it seems no matter what additions or changes CCP places in the game, people feeling they are the majority will complain long and loud.
"Your idea just encourages alt usage." - You mean not everyone has a cyno alt, a market checker / trade alt, a mission running alt, a PI alt, etc.?
Alright, I do not have a cyno alt since I do not fly cap ships...
Thanks for the responses! |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
181
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 09:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gogela -
As I read your response, my first thought was "bribe".
Instead of a full-blown pardon, you bribed the local authorities and were given immunity for a certain amount of time? As you pass through the heart land area of those you bribed freely, as you reached the borders, you would have to repeat your bribe attempts. Perhaps using (new) skills and your Charisma to barter for passage. Offer too little ISK and the authorities feel insulted, openly attacking you while ~seeing~ you with now a worse status. Or pay too much and they will personally escort you across the system to the next gate. But once you leave the area and time has elapsed, you are seen as you were before your bribe (attempts) and must start again.
Perhaps a random percentage to always fail - you stumbled across the one straight and narrow Barney Fife so it is not always abused per se by just paying x amount each and every time. And the amounts are different too - one pass might be x amount, but lately the higher authorities have been watching those border patrols so now it will cost you extra... |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1527
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 09:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bribes would be pretty awesome, as long as they're not something ridiculous like the cost of a T3 hull. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
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AndromacheDarkstar
Fiscal Fisting Inc. Imperial Protectorate
163
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Posted - 2012.11.24 09:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
As much as i hate it the current mechanic is i think the best way. The moment you get the oppurtunity to throw isk/real life cash at sec status the system will break down. The idea behind the system is to make sure you face consequences for your actions, the moment thats gone EVE will be in chaos and i dont think thats healthy for the game. You need a relatively safe hi sec for new players to live in for the game to function.
Fiscal Fisting Inc.-áAmarr Militia Corp Recruiting EU TZ PVP pilots now Also Looking for EU PVP corps to join-áa growing-áAmarr-áFW-áalliance
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
96
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Posted - 2012.11.24 09:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
If anything, "fixing" your sec should be harder, not easier.
Remove sec status gain from anywhere besides low-sec. That's the only place in EVE where CONCORD should reward you with security status. |
The Protato
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
85
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 10:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:SEC FOR AUREM I'll ALLOW IT
GHAZU FOR CSM 2013 |
AndromacheDarkstar
Fiscal Fisting Inc. Imperial Protectorate
163
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Posted - 2012.11.24 11:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Pohbis wrote:If anything, "fixing" your sec should be harder, not easier.
Remove sec status gain from anywhere besides low-sec. That's the only place in EVE where CONCORD should reward you with security status.
Couldnt agree more Fiscal Fisting Inc.-áAmarr Militia Corp Recruiting EU TZ PVP pilots now Also Looking for EU PVP corps to join-áa growing-áAmarr-áFW-áalliance
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1529
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 11:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
+1 for the idea of low-sec being the only source of security status gain. It's a very old idea actually, over a decade old at least. I'd love it if CCP implemented it, but I just really really hope that they boost the profitability of those low-sec rats, either by increasing bounties and drops, making tags a standard drop that can be traded for security status, or some combination of both. Low-sec ratting income is just insultingly low. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting The Paganism Alliance
130
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 12:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
You know what I find weird? You get CONCORD sec status gain by killing NPC pirates right? So why don't we get sec status gain for blowing up an actual player pirate? Say, relative to their own negative sec status? Such an implementation, along with Crimewatch 2.0, might ofer some incentives for players to pvp for their sec stat.
Alas as always, this idea won't work well as people will just make alts to grind set status back. God, I really hate the concept of alts |
AndromacheDarkstar
Fiscal Fisting Inc. Imperial Protectorate
163
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 12:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:You know what I find weird? You get CONCORD sec status gain by killing NPC pirates right? So why don't we get sec status gain for blowing up an actual player pirate? Say, relative to their own negative sec status? Such an implementation, along with Crimewatch 2.0, might ofer some incentives for players to pvp for their sec stat. Alas as always, this idea won't work well as people will just make alts to grind set status back. God, I really hate the concept of alts
You could have a system where the the price of the ship/pod lost affects the sec status gained which if implemented properly might work, then again thast jsut turning it into isk for sec status i suppose, but a longer way around which is a shame really as it would benefit lots fo genuine players hunting pirates Fiscal Fisting Inc.-áAmarr Militia Corp Recruiting EU TZ PVP pilots now Also Looking for EU PVP corps to join-áa growing-áAmarr-áFW-áalliance
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Ice Pirateer
24
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:18:00 -
[48] - Quote
...I wonder if they see this thread and don't want to answer yet. Pirateer Investments: Coming SoonGäó |
cheese monkey
Peniz inc...
44
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think this could have merit. It would bring more people to low sec... |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
897
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 18:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ice Pirateer wrote:...I wonder if they see this thread and don't want to answer yet. /me lurks
Once we get Retribution 1.0 out of the way, this is something we want to put some thought in to. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Easier to fix your sec status -> more high sec ganks -> more casual players with no interest in PVP getting ganked high sec -> carebears quit and tell CCP it is because of high sec gank -> CCP undo whatever change caused an increase in the number of carebear ganks and add additional protections of carebears to make ganking them even harder.-> balance is restored as the carebears return to the game and PVPers return to whining about how CCP is protecting carebears from ganks. |
Ice Pirateer
26
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Ice Pirateer wrote:...I wonder if they see this thread and don't want to answer yet. /me lurks Once we get Retribution 1.0 out of the way, this is something we want to put some thought in to. That's cool. Really I just wanted to see if it's still on your radar. Looking forward to it! Pirateer Investments: Coming SoonGäó |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1414
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Gogela -
As I read your response, my first thought was "bribe".
Instead of a full-blown pardon, you bribed the local authorities and were given immunity for a certain amount of time? As you pass through the heart land area of those you bribed freely, as you reached the borders, you would have to repeat your bribe attempts. Perhaps using (new) skills and your Charisma to barter for passage. Offer too little ISK and the authorities feel insulted, openly attacking you while ~seeing~ you with now a worse status. Or pay too much and they will personally escort you across the system to the next gate. But once you leave the area and time has elapsed, you are seen as you were before your bribe (attempts) and must start again.
Perhaps a random percentage to always fail - you stumbled across the one straight and narrow Barney Fife so it is not always abused per se by just paying x amount each and every time. And the amounts are different too - one pass might be x amount, but lately the higher authorities have been watching those border patrols so now it will cost you extra... That's not a bad idea, but statistically it's going to balance (net) out to be the same either way. If there's some chance that a bribe will fail, people will just factor that in to how many tags they need to buy. This isn't an argument against the mechanic, it's just a creative alternate method of implementing it. In any event, the tags will probably price out the same. They said that using such a mechanic would be expensive. I have no doubt that will be the case. Buying up sec isn't something everyone with a -10 is going to do. If you are scraping by as a hard-core lowsec pirate making your living off of the kills you get, you probably can't justify the expense. That's going to be the case regardless of how it's implemented. There are a lot of unknowns. CCP being the cautious types, I would actually be surprised if, initially, many people at all use the mechanic. I wonder if it will be too expensive for anyone but the richest to use, and I'm not sure how many of them there are. The commander tags are pretty worthless right now too... but their supply is very tight. Initially it may be that people are sitting on stockpiles of tags, and as those flood the market it will be very cheap to buy up sec... but when the stockpiles are depleted and natural supply takes over, it could get very expensive indeed. I'm betting whatever is decided, such a mechanic will be watched by CCP and continually revisited and re-balanced. There are so many volatile unknowns that I am currently unable to even fathom a guess as to how this will shake out. All I can say is that these tags have had virtually no use since the beginning of the game. They have been around a very long time. CCP will take very positive control of this, I'd wager. Giving these items such a useful roll is going to be interesting from both a game design and a market perspective.
I digressed a bit there... tl;dr; Yours is an interesting idea, but I don't think it would change much in terms of usage as it's tied to cost.
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
291
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
as long as they are the pirate tags... i have been stocking up on them since they announced this as a possible way for sec status increases since fanfest back in march ;) |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1414
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:as long as they are the pirate tags... i have been stocking up on them since they announced this as a possible way for sec status increases since fanfest back in march ;) You and who knows how many others. Remember these tags have been around for almost a decade and been useless. How many do you think are in other peoples hangers? Millions? Billions? Plus we have no idea how this is going to shake out yet. Pretty speculative imho...
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2012.11.26 19:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:You know what I find weird? You get CONCORD sec status gain by killing NPC pirates right? So why don't we get sec status gain for blowing up an actual player pirate? Say, relative to their own negative sec status? Such an implementation, along with Crimewatch 2.0, might ofer some incentives for players to pvp for their sec stat. Alas as always, this idea won't work well as people will just make alts to grind set status back. God, I really hate the concept of alts
You are correct. It is too easily exploited.
I create 2 accounts. I use them to gank carebears in high sec, giving each low sec status. I then use my accounts to blow up each other, regaining the sec status I lost ganking carebears. Since both of my accounts have low sec status, I get big increases for playing with myself.
I then go back and gank some more carebears in high sec.
Anything that makes it easier to gank carebears in hisec will result in mass unsubs by hisec carebears.... which in turn will result in CCP undoing whatever change made it easier to gank carebears in hisec.
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MainDrain
7th Deepari Defence Armada The Veyr Collective
4
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Posted - 2012.11.26 21:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote: I get big increases for playing with myself.
Off topic and immature, but had to quote that!!
Could you not re-work the current system, with perhaps concord providing missions in low sec targeting specific new NPCs (named members of pirate faction) The missions could be restricted to those with negative sec status only
Would also provide a mechanic of introducing new pirate faction modules |
Piugattuk
Perkone Caldari State
107
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Posted - 2012.11.26 22:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
Quoting this; I'm not suggesting you give them security status for free. I simply said, let them pvp to get it back. Eve is about consequences and rewards, not disputing that. Eve is also a game, and people usually play games to enjoy them. I simply proposed a way in which they could earn back security status without wanting to slit their wrists while they do so.
So my answer; Miners who mine also have to grind away for roids, then you got rats, then you got bumpers, gankers and the task of back and fourth, so yeah this makes for a heck of a way to grind your way to the top so why should not pirates and PVP'ers (who engage in PVP that lose sec status) ,no buying of sec status.
Mission runners have to grind to get status with NPC to get higher lvl missions while dealing with NPC pirates, wino salvagers, and gankers looking for faction fit mission boats, no buying of sec status.
So NO, absolutely not, they must grind for their fun as well. |
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
94
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Posted - 2012.11.26 22:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote: Once we get Retribution 1.0 out of the way, this is something we want to put some thought in to.
Translation: Two years, easy |
AndromacheDarkstar
Fiscal Fisting Inc. Imperial Protectorate
166
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 08:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
BuckStrider wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote: Once we get Retribution 1.0 out of the way, this is something we want to put some thought in to.
Translation: Two years, easy
Why is everyone still on CCP`s back, they are working faster than ever and fixing the stuff everyone asked for. Fiscal Fisting Inc.-áAmarr Militia Corp Recruiting EU TZ PVP pilots now Also Looking for EU PVP corps to join-áa growing-áAmarr-áFW-áalliance
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