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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 47 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
969
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello internet spaceships pilots!
CCP SoniClover is here to tell you more about even more awesome features that are coming with EVE Online: Retribution on December 4th.
In his newest Dev Blog you can hear more about Bounties, Kill Rights, New Modules and War Declaration Mechanics.
Read all about it here!
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á-á@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents
-- Disciple Of The Delicious Tea -- |
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ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
267
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
first - Nulla Curas |
Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc To be Announced.
9
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:first
Well done.
Btw this 'available to all' on the killrights, does this mean it's available to view and buy by anyone? |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3627
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd like to use this opportunity to thank everybody who has taken time to test our features on Buckingham, your feedback has been super helpful for me when polishing the UI
hifives! Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2445
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: WeGÇÖve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish. When you make a kill right available, a notification is sent to the target of the kill right informing him that the kill right has been made available (and to whom if that is specified).
This is what's going to take killrights to the next level and you guys are heroes for getting it into Retribution. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
950
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gotta second what CCP Fozzie said. You guys have outdone yourselves on this one! :D Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
5553
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Very interesting!
/c
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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc To be Announced.
9
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:The aggressor now has the option to retract a war that has been made mutual by the defender. This ends the war in 24 hours. The other option here was to give the aggressor a chance to accept or refuse making the war mutual, but we felt the retraction was a cleaner and simpler solution.
bye bye dec shield? |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
234
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote: WeGÇÖve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish. When you make a kill right available, a notification is sent to the target of the kill right informing him that the kill right has been made available (and to whom if that is specified).
This is what's going to take killrights to the next level and you guys are heroes for getting it into Retribution.
Thank player feedback. They convinced us this had to happen now rather than in a point-release. |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
793
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nice, salvage drones that can keep up with a tractor beam spewing noctis FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
104
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote: WeGÇÖve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish. When you make a kill right available, a notification is sent to the target of the kill right informing him that the kill right has been made available (and to whom if that is specified).
This is what's going to take killrights to the next level and you guys are heroes for getting it into Retribution. Thank player feedback. They convinced us this had to happen now rather than in a point-release. It was definitely needed now, rather than later.
Quick question: Do killrights assigned to corps or individuals have to be activated, or does that only apply to everyone killrights? I feel like it is a needless step to activate a killright assigned specifically to me or my corp before I start shooting. |
Squizz Caphinator
Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings
52
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Will cloaking immediately disable the micro jump drive? http://evewho.com - Alliance and Corporation Member Listings http://evechatter.com - Free Alliance and Corporation forums for all. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2966
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote: WeGÇÖve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish. When you make a kill right available, a notification is sent to the target of the kill right informing him that the kill right has been made available (and to whom if that is specified).
This is what's going to take killrights to the next level and you guys are heroes for getting it into Retribution. Thank player feedback. They convinced us this had to happen now rather than in a point-release. It was definitely needed now, rather than later. Quick question: Do killrights assigned to corps or individuals have to be activated, or does that only apply to everyone killrights? I feel like it is a needless step to activate a killright assigned specifically to me or my corp before I start shooting.
I can see automatic activation being a potential problem, since it would remove the ability to attack such target without activating a killright. There can be potential situations where you want to shoot at him, but don't want to waste a killright on him. With manual activation there can't be any such issues. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3627
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Chribba wrote:
Also @ the activation of a kill right, if I activate it for everyone, will this mean I will get a "kill report" in my list if someone else kills him on my behalf?
/c
you won't get a kill report in your list, but you get a notification telling you that your kill right was used up by someone. and the kill report will say that the pilot was killed on your behalf. Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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CCP Paradox
579
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote: WeGÇÖve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish. When you make a kill right available, a notification is sent to the target of the kill right informing him that the kill right has been made available (and to whom if that is specified).
This is what's going to take killrights to the next level and you guys are heroes for getting it into Retribution. Thank player feedback. They convinced us this had to happen now rather than in a point-release. It was definitely needed now, rather than later. Quick question: Do killrights assigned to corps or individuals have to be activated, or does that only apply to everyone killrights? I feel like it is a needless step to activate a killright assigned specifically to me or my corp before I start shooting.
Anyone in the Corp that it is assigned to can Activate the Kill Right. (Note that this is on the same grid in space with the player.) Try assigning the Kill right to The Scope CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
889
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nice work SuperFriends and friends ;)
Gneeznow wrote:Edit: also now that sec hits are front loading, what kind of sec hit do you get when you destroy a ship? the full hit you now get when you 'gank' someone who doesn't fire back, or the 10~ smaller hit you get when they fire back at you? It is somewhere between the two. If you end up ganking to death about 50% of the targets you illegally aggress, you'll be roughly in a similar situation. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
234
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gneeznow wrote:Btw this 'available to all' on the killrights, does this mean it's available to view and buy by anyone?
Yes, anyone. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10382
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Uh-oh, combat Noctium everywhere! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
120
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
on ASB's i think it is a bit OP for active tank not to have to use some cap otherwise its not very active is it? I want my curse to be able to neut and TD every ship please If only projectiles were neutable again :(... if all guns were neutable and missiles weren't maybe people would like missiles more and it would add more difference between the weapon systems. Also what happened to merc contracts? Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048 |
agrajag119
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
8
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Salvage drones - you specifically call out "your own wrecks". will this include fleet members or corp members as well. I know nuetral wrecks were mentioned too, but this sounds like a corner case that might get missed. |
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Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
762
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm glad to see you removed the multiplier from war costs, but I'm saddened to see you have yet again raised the base cost of declaring war. I strongly believe we need to reduce the minimum cost of war declarations; hisec warfare is such an excellent introductory arena for aspiring PVPers, and the current costs are just so high.
I'm also very glad to see you got the killright availability limitation in there for the first iteration. Very slick.
P.S. XL Ancillary boosters had their duration increased from 4 to 5, not 5 to 4 /o\ Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
277
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've found a couple loopholes in here that may need addressing:
Quote:When you have a bounty placed on you, the notification you get sent now also includes the name of the character that placed the bounty on you.
Why would you send the name of the person placing the bounty? It's only going to provoke the target and it's not going to have any effect because I can just create an alt or trial account, transfer cash, and place a bounty from an untraceable pilot. Cut out the middleman and don't send the name.
Quote:You can also revert your choices here and cancel the availability of your kill rights, using the same menu. Currently there are no restrictions on how fast or frequently you can cancel kill right availability or make them available again.
If someone buys my kill rights, activating the flag, and then I immediately withdraw them, what happens? Is the suspect flag withdrawn? Does it stay active but disable the kill right payout? This is a very exploitable edge case that wasn't addressed in the blog. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
762
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
agrajag119 wrote:Salvage drones - you specifically call out "your own wrecks". will this include fleet members or corp members as well. I know nuetral wrecks were mentioned too, but this sounds like a corner case that might get missed.
They already stated that this would basically differentiate based on the color of the wrecks; drones will auto-salvage white and blue wrecks but leave yellow alone. This means that fleet members' wrecks will be perfectly available. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
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CCP Paradox
579
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:I've found a couple loopholes in here that may need addressing: Quote:When you have a bounty placed on you, the notification you get sent now also includes the name of the character that placed the bounty on you. Why would you send the name of the person placing the bounty? It's only going to provoke the target and it's not going to have any effect because I can just create an alt or trial account, transfer cash, and place a bounty from an untraceable pilot. Cut out the middleman and don't send the name. Quote:You can also revert your choices here and cancel the availability of your kill rights, using the same menu. Currently there are no restrictions on how fast or frequently you can cancel kill right availability or make them available again. If someone buys my kill rights, activating the flag, and then I immediately withdraw them, what happens? Is the suspect flag withdrawn? Does it stay active but disable the kill right payout? This is a very exploitable edge case that wasn't addressed in the blog.
The suspect flag is not withdrawn. But once the timer runs out, and all Limited Engagements run out nobody will be able to activate the Kill Right again until you choose who to assign to next. CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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CCP Paradox
579
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:agrajag119 wrote:Salvage drones - you specifically call out "your own wrecks". will this include fleet members or corp members as well. I know nuetral wrecks were mentioned too, but this sounds like a corner case that might get missed. They already stated that this would basically differentiate based on the color of the wrecks; drones will auto-salvage white and blue wrecks but leave yellow alone. This means that fleet members' wrecks will be perfectly available.
But you can target a Yellow wreck manually and then tell your drones to salvage it, if you choose to go down that dark, dark path. CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
234
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote: If someone buys my kill rights, activating the flag, and then I immediately withdraw them, what happens? Is the suspect flag withdrawn? Does it stay active but disable the kill right payout? This is a very exploitable edge case that wasn't addressed in the blog.
If the kill right has been activated, making it unavailable won't change anything - the flag stays on and the kill right can still be used up. |
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
104
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Some Rando wrote:Quick question: Do killrights assigned to corps or individuals have to be activated, or does that only apply to everyone killrights? I feel like it is a needless step to activate a killright assigned specifically to me or my corp before I start shooting. Anyone in the Corp that it is assigned to can Activate the Kill Right. (Note that this is on the same grid in space with the player.) Try assigning the Kill right to The Scope That wasn't what I was asking. Having to activate a killright available to everyone is understandable, but I feel that activating a killright that is assigned to me or my corp is a wasted and needless UI step, and it should work like, say, a normal killiright would (or being in a war, for instance).
For that matter, if I have a killright against someone because they killed me, do I have to activate it? If so, that would be pretty silly.
Lastly, do I give up my killright when I assign it to someone else? |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3627
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:Some Rando wrote:Quick question: Do killrights assigned to corps or individuals have to be activated, or does that only apply to everyone killrights? I feel like it is a needless step to activate a killright assigned specifically to me or my corp before I start shooting. Anyone in the Corp that it is assigned to can Activate the Kill Right. (Note that this is on the same grid in space with the player.) Try assigning the Kill right to The Scope That wasn't what I was asking. Having to activate a killright available to everyone is understandable, but I feel that activating a killright that is assigned to me or my corp is a wasted and needless UI step, and it should work like, say, a normal killiright would (or being in a war, for instance). For that matter, if I have a killright against someone because they killed me, do I have to activate it? If so, that would be pretty silly. Lastly, do I give up my killright when I assign it to someone else?
normal kill rights also work in this way, you have to activate it.
you might want to choose the moment when you want to make that person a suspect to everybody!
no you don't give up your own kill right when you make it available to others Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
123
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
How come the Drone Interfacing skill doesn't affect Salvage Drones in any way? It affects both combat drones and mining drones, so this is an odd oversight.
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
123
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Also, why do you make it known to the target who placed the bounty? People are just going to use disposable or secrets alts to place bounties anyway. It's a silly mechanic.
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CCP Paradox
579
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:Some Rando wrote:Quick question: Do killrights assigned to corps or individuals have to be activated, or does that only apply to everyone killrights? I feel like it is a needless step to activate a killright assigned specifically to me or my corp before I start shooting. Anyone in the Corp that it is assigned to can Activate the Kill Right. (Note that this is on the same grid in space with the player.) Try assigning the Kill right to The Scope That wasn't what I was asking. Having to activate a killright available to everyone is understandable, but I feel that activating a killright that is assigned to me or my corp is a wasted and needless UI step, and it should work like, say, a normal killiright would (or being in a war, for instance). For that matter, if I have a killright against someone because they killed me, do I have to activate it? If so, that would be pretty silly. Lastly, do I give up my killright when I assign it to someone else?
They work very different than before. We are flagging the target with a Suspect flag through the new Crimwatch V2 system. So in that respect, the 15 minute flag that gets slapped on your target must be activated manually, when you see that target in space. CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
104
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:normal kill rights also work in this way, you have to activate it.
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3627
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Also, why do you make it known to the target who placed the bounty? People are just going to use disposable or secrets alts to place bounties anyway. It's a silly mechanic.
from our initial feedback we got that some people wanted the name there and others not, for those who want to make it known like "yo I don't like you, I'm placing a bounty on you" can just do it with their own dude... others can use alts or a corporation specializing in placing bounties for others Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
11
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
"It will not be possible to place bounties on NPC characters (like agents) or corporations (but you can place a bounty on a player character in a NPC corporation), nor on CCP developers or ISD people."
Awwww I wasso much looking forward to collect on CCP Soundwave's 2 trillion in bounies
\o/ I am very appreciative of the reduction on putting bounties on Alliances though & it sounds like good fairer amount. Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10382
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:from our initial feedback we got that some people wanted the name there and others not, for those who want to make it known like "yo I don't like you, I'm placing a bounty on you" can just do it with their own dude... others can use alts or a corporation specializing in placing bounties for others GǪso, how long until Vengeance IncGäó GÇö Your Friendly Bounty Anonymizing Corp is formed? Any bets? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
577
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
thanks for the clarification, namely:
" Having a bounty on you will never by itself make you a legal target anywhere."
Phew --- "Also, your boobs" - CCP Eterne (Still writing great prose!)
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Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
2286
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
If you want the very best in bounty placement, you should really use PunkturisCorp. They specialize in quality bounty placement. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3347
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Posted - 2012.11.21 17:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
Many thanks again to the team for listening to our feedback and doubling their efforts to deploy selective kill right sales, its a drastically needed tool to ensure that this bounty hunting system doesnt have the exploits the previous edition suffered from!
I still think reducing the capacity of ASB's only ensures that people will default to the dual-ASB tank, as it simply weakens the use of a solo ASB setup too much. As I've said internally, the problem isn't with single boosted setups near as much as the alternating dual booster fits, I'd much rather see a limit on the number of ASB's one can fit, and maintain their current capacity - than nerf them in this manner (especially since it impacts the smaller sizes more than larger sizes as there is currently no Navy cap booster 25's or 50's.) I really hope the team keeps an open mind here and continues to listen to the community, ASB's have a LOT of potential and are a lot of fun, I just think the path currently being taken to nerf them cuts way down on the number of ships that can use them to begin with by eating up more slots for a second booster.
....not to mention Fozzie's tiericide efforts when it comes to command links will further hurt ASB tanks, I hope this pending double nerf is considered - because it would be a shame for these to become obsolete when compared to traditional active booster / cap booster setups.
The rest of the module changes are pretty sensible, reactive armor hardeners in particular should really start to shine given the new speed of their adaptation. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
11
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Salpad wrote:Also, why do you make it known to the target who placed the bounty? People are just going to use disposable or secrets alts to place bounties anyway. It's a silly mechanic.
from our initial feedback we got that some people wanted the name there and others not, for those who want to make it known like "yo I don't like you, I'm placing a bounty on you" can just do it with their own dude... others can use alts or a corporation specializing in placing bounties for others
Here's a scenerio I have not seen addressed yet ( if I missed it in the Blogs please correct me ): If an alt places a bounty on another pilot & recycles ( terminates) that dispoable alt does the bounty still stick? Also will recycling multiple alts be a bannable offence like disposing of alts to escape SEC Status penalties? Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10382
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Spurty wrote:thanks for the clarification, namely:
" Having a bounty on you will never by itself make you a legal target anywhere."
Phew Note, though, that it will make you a more likely target. A freighter pilot with a sufficient bounty on his head will readily pay out 300M ISK for the ship alone (to say nothing about the inevitable lost cargo), and that goes a long way towards making it a GÇ£free killGÇ¥. Jump Freighters will similarly be able to pay out enough ISK to pay for the lost ships in a gank, even if not a single piece of loot drops, if the bounty is high enough. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
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Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone Ironworks Coalition
145
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Gneeznow wrote:Btw this 'available to all' on the killrights, does this mean it's available to view and buy by anyone? Edit: also now that sec hits are front loading, what kind of sec hit do you get when you destroy a ship? the full hit you now get when you 'gank' someone who doesn't fire back, or the 10~ smaller hit you get when they fire back at you? Also Quote:The aggressor now has the option to retract a war that has been made mutual by the defender. This ends the war in 24 hours. The other option here was to give the aggressor a chance to accept or refuse making the war mutual, but we felt the retraction was a cleaner and simpler solution. bye bye dec shield? Were Goons one of the ones perma-locked into war? [/tinfoil] The Gaming MoD - retro to modern, console to MMO, I blog about it if it's a game and I'm interested in it. Yes, I play games other than Eve and I don't care if you think I'm wrong. |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
1907
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Posted - 2012.11.21 18:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:...I'm saddened to see you have yet again raised the base cost of declaring war. I strongly believe we need to reduce the minimum cost of war declarations; hisec warfare is such an excellent introductory arena for aspiring PVPers, and the current costs are just so high.
The "minimum" cost hasn't changed, its still 50M ISK/week, only the "cost effectiveness" of the war has changed. That said, maybe the "aspiring PvPers" could choose a smaller target, or offer their services in someone else's wardec as an ally which is entirely free?
There's also LoSec if they want to PvP (with the updated killrights only on pods there, and new flagging it will hopefully be more active), and bounty hunting in HiSec should become an interesting profession now - there are plenty of places a small corp of inexperienced PvPers can go if they don't want to join an already established group.
And of course, who is that short on cash they can't afford the maximum cost of 500M ISK a week between them? If they don't have at least that much, how are they going to replace their ships?
Callic Veratar wrote:Why would you send the name of the person placing the bounty? This is something I raised, as its just going to result in more alts, but without it there are less repercussions.
i expect to see "bounty alts" to spring up as a mini profession in the near future. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Naomi Wildfire
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
130
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
I for one still think the old ASB should have been limited to 1 per Ship, nothing else.
Either run 1 and hope it lasts the fight or use it as support for your active booster. |
Alara IonStorm
3552
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
I am not sure I get the kill right system, I don't use it now but just so I know.
* When someone assigns me permission to utilize a kill right can I activate it when I see them and start shooting? * If a kill right is activated then does that mean that if I fail to kill them like they dock or something is it gone for good or can you use it until a kill? * If you make it for anyone and a friend pops them in a shuttle is it gone or does it last the month?
|
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
124
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Spurty wrote:thanks for the clarification, namely:
" Having a bounty on you will never by itself make you a legal target anywhere."
Phew Note, though, that it will make you a more likely target. A freighter pilot with a sufficient bounty on his head will readily pay out 300M ISK for the ship alone (to say nothing about the inevitable lost cargo), and that goes a long way towards making it a GÇ£free killGÇ¥. Jump Freighters will similarly be able to pay out enough ISK to pay for the lost ships in a gank, even if not a single piece of loot drops, if the bounty is high enough.
Yes, it does have serious consequences in terms of shifting suicide gank profitability thresholds. And the direction of shift is downwards.
|
Aethlyn
161
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Don't think this has been asked here so far: Are there any plans for adjusting access to implants in space? E.g. to avoid people ripping out implants when they know they can't get away to avoid them showing up on kill mails (and to reduce bounty payouts)? Looking for more thoughts? Read http://aethlyn.blogspot.com/ or follow me on http://twitter.com/Aethlyn. |
Alara IonStorm
3552
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Naomi Wildfire wrote:I for one still think the old ASB should have been limited to 1 per Ship, nothing else.
Either run 1 and hope it lasts the fight or use it as support for your active booster. I would like them to sort out fitting as well. The big reason the XL-SB wasn't used much sub Battleship was Capacitor. Now Battlecruiser can fit it comfortably as well as some Cruiser. I think they should up the Grid to 1000 on it before limiting it. Maybe buff the Large a tiny bit if needed for the 1 you can fit to your ship. |
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
11
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Versuvius Marii wrote:Were Goons one of the ones perma-locked into war? [/tinfoil]
Of course they were but I don't want to get into that again & get forum banned like my main
Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
|
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
277
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:Why would you send the name of the person placing the bounty? This is something I raised, as its just going to result in more alts, but without it there are less repercussions. i expect to see "bounty alts" to spring up as a mini profession in the near future.
Unfortunately, the only repercussions I can see are to the people who are not familiar enough with eve to know you can get around it by creating an alt. But then, trial by fire is the way of eve and I guess this will be no different. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
364
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
I cannot get over how badly designed the MJD is.
The rest of the blog is pretty cool, particularly making reactive hardeners better, and making bounty hunting an actual thing. But dear god, that MJD is so silly. |
|
Alystin Wyndyl
Night's Shadows TriMark Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Iam Widdershins wrote:agrajag119 wrote:Salvage drones - you specifically call out "your own wrecks". will this include fleet members or corp members as well. I know nuetral wrecks were mentioned too, but this sounds like a corner case that might get missed. They already stated that this would basically differentiate based on the color of the wrecks; drones will auto-salvage white and blue wrecks but leave yellow alone. This means that fleet members' wrecks will be perfectly available. But you can target a Yellow wreck manually and then tell your drones to salvage it, if you choose to go down that dark, dark path.
I was testing this last night on Buckingham, and it does NOT work as advertised, at least not all the time. I was using two toons, one in a carrier and the other in a guardian with salvage drones, and the drones would not auto-salvage any of the WHITE wrecks (they were the other fleet member's wrecks, not mine) and they would also NOT auto-salvage any of the blue wrecks (once he abandoned all nearby wrecks). they did work earlier on my own wrecks I made testing once of the new destroyers. I had to specifically send the drones after each of the white and blue wrecks that were not tagged to my Alliance. Devs please take a look at that. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1178
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Quote:It will not be possible to place bounties on NPC characters (like agents) or corporations (but you can place a bounty on a player character in a NPC corporation), nor on CCP developers or ISD people.
what would be kinda neat is if you would add an exception for certain live event characters. just as a hint :) its certainly a nice isk sink a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
124
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:32:00 -
[53] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: I still think reducing the capacity of ASB's only ensures that people will default to the dual-ASB tank, as it simply weakens the use of a solo ASB setup too much. As I've said internally, the problem isn't with single boosted setups near as much as the alternating dual booster fits, I'd much rather see a limit on the number of ASB's one can fit, and maintain their current capacity - than nerf them in this manner (especially since it impacts the smaller sizes more than larger sizes as there is currently no Navy cap booster 25's or 50's.) I really hope the team keeps an open mind here and continues to listen to the community, ASB's have a LOT of potential and are a lot of fun, I just think the path currently being taken to nerf them cuts way down on the number of ships that can use them to begin with by eating up more slots for a second booster.
Pretty much this.
Your right, It wouldn't be as bad if Navy cap boosters came in the 25 and 50 size but when that gets brought up CCP gives the old "we might do that in the future" line, so not encouraging. The problem is (at least as I see it) with this solution they are really hitting frigates and destroyers hard with the nerf bat, to fix a cruiser and up mechanic. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
40
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:One final note is that weGÇÖre also making a small adjustment to the Noctis. WeGÇÖre giving it a drone bay of 25m-¦. Initially, this was limited to salvage drones only, but we decided to remove that restriction, so you can now put any drone type in there.
Very much appreciated, always found the noctis lacking a dronebay incase of "future" salvage drones odd. Eve Radio |
Aethlyn
161
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:35:00 -
[55] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:what would be kinda neat is if you would add an exception for certain live event characters. just as a hint :) its certainly a nice isk sink Live Event characters are probably different anyway, as you can add them to your watch list as well etc. (something that doesn't work with real "NPCs" as far as I know. :) Looking for more thoughts? Read http://aethlyn.blogspot.com/ or follow me on http://twitter.com/Aethlyn. |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
65
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
"If the kill right is made available to everyone, but at a low price, the targeted player can simply use an alt or a friend to get rid of the kill right. This is then just an extra hoop to jump through for those players frequently causing others to get kill rights on them."
I like most of changes in bounty system, but his...
LOLZOR |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1178
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Quote:For the Micro Jump Drive, we will start by just doing a large version of this module (Large Micro Jump Drive), which only battleship size ships can fit (Battleships, Marauders and Black Ops). Here are a few pertinent points: no combat recons anymore :-( a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
11
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
The spacerich CSM's dictated to the DEV's whom wrote: Also, weGÇÖve changed a little bit how the cost scales depending on number of characters in defender corp/alliance. The cost now starts ramping up faster than before and thus hits the ceiling of 500 million sooner. Before the cost started scaling up around the 128 character mark and hit the ceiling at ca. 7200. After the change, the cost starts ramping up with the 51st character and hits the ceiling at the 2000 character mark.
When are we going to hear if these changes actually increase or decreased the war dec ISK sink in the economy? Are there actually more war declarations then before Inferno's release or has the hi costs of war decc'ing the big alliances stifled the number of war dec's? I WANT STATS!!! ( I miss CCP Diagoras ) Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1163
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Salpad wrote:Also, why do you make it known to the target who placed the bounty? People are just going to use disposable or secrets alts to place bounties anyway. It's a silly mechanic.
from our initial feedback we got that some people wanted the name there and others not, for those who want to make it known like "yo I don't like you, I'm placing a bounty on you" can just do it with their own dude... others can use alts or a corporation specializing in placing bounties for others Then give me a checkbox: "Tell target who placed the bounty?" instead of having me make an alt. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thank you for killing the ASB . Single ASB ships are now useless because of the huge reduction in charges and dual ASB's are so underwhelming that they will barely be used. Sold off all my Ab's as soon as I read about the change. Why does CCP never listen to us about these "fixes"? Limiting 1 ASB per ship would still make them useful but not OP with the original stats.
Stubborn hardheaded fools sometimes CCP.
PS I have been testing them on the test server, so I know they are le crap now. |
|
Akrasjel Lanate
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
801
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
License to Kill Now anyone can be like 007
|
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3627
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:56:00 -
[62] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:I am not sure I get the kill right system, I don't use it now but just so I know.
* When someone assigns me permission to utilize a kill right can I activate it when I see them and start shooting? * If a kill right is activated then does that mean that if I fail to kill them like they dock or something is it gone for good or can you use it until a kill? * If you make it for anyone and a friend pops them in a shuttle is it gone or does it last the month?
- yes - and everybody else on grid too
- it's valid for 15 minutes and it can be activated again either until they lose a ship or 30 days have gone by
- then it's gone, them losing a ship always uses the kill right up
Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
|
Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 18:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: I still think reducing the capacity of ASB's only ensures that people will default to the dual-ASB tank, as it simply weakens the use of a solo ASB setup too much. As I've said internally, the problem isn't with single boosted setups near as much as the alternating dual booster fits, I'd much rather see a limit on the number of ASB's one can fit, and maintain their current capacity - than nerf them in this manner (especially since it impacts the smaller sizes more than larger sizes as there is currently no Navy cap booster 25's or 50's.) I really hope the team keeps an open mind here and continues to listen to the community, ASB's have a LOT of potential and are a lot of fun, I just think the path currently being taken to nerf them cuts way down on the number of ships that can use them to begin with by eating up more slots for a second booster.
This.
But CCP will go with their default "we know best" stance, and ignore its player and CSM's. |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
53
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote: hisec warfare is such an excellent introductory arena for aspiring PVPers, \
What are you smoking? Hisec wars are the worse intro to pvp you can get unless you include red vs blue and other groups that use it for consensual pvp that prevents outside interference. Wars in Eve are annoying affairs of station games, gate camping, and hiding. The wars I've been in were boring as the other side rarely fought unless they had a 3 to 1 advantage or massive numbers of neutral repers. The problem with high sec wars is that there is no way for a defender to force an aggressor into battle. Nor is there a reason to do so. Until there is a means to do so most defenders are simply going to station up, drop corp, hang out in LS/NS/WH or the like. The last war I was in our alliance was in the aggressor never left the trade hubs, and stationed up when more than one of us was in system.
If you want a good intro to pvp join one of the newbie training corps, join faction warfare, join a LS corp, join a NS corp.... Heck even joining the Goons will teach you a valuable lesson about eve pvp;-)
PS- I don't disagree that aggressor being able to leave mutual wars is a good idea. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1164
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:09:00 -
[65] - Quote
There has been little talk about the "no multiplier" on war dec cost change. With that change the question comes up: Is it now possible for one group to declare war on every high sec player corp? Lets say there are 300,000 pilots in high sec player corps, and they are divided up into 3000 corps or alliances. Say the average cost to dec these is 100 million. To dec all of them at once costs 300 billion a week.
Now say the group doing the war decs has 3000 pilots who are making isk and contributing it to the wars. They each need to make 100 million a week, less than you need to make to support your account via PLEX.
Conclusion: It is now possible for a single large alliance to turn all of high sec into their own personal shooting gallery, and keep it that way indefinitely. I predict a mass migration to NPC corps. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Elinea Marcutz
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:09:00 -
[66] - Quote
**IS A FORUM ALT**
I totally wanna start a bounty hunting corp now! Anyone else interest, eve mail me and I'll get back to you from my main! |
|
CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3628
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:12:00 -
[67] - Quote
Elinea Marcutz wrote:**IS A FORUM ALT**
I totally wanna start a bounty hunting corp now! Anyone else interest, eve mail me and I'll get back to you from my main!
me me me me!! Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
|
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
364
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:14:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:Thank you for killing the ASB . Single ASB ships are now useless because of the huge reduction in charges and dual ASB's are so underwhelming that they will barely be used. Sold off all my Ab's as soon as I read about the change. Why does CCP never listen to us about these "fixes"? Limiting 1 ASB per ship would still make them useful but not OP with the original stats. Stubborn hardheaded fools sometimes CCP. PS I have been testing them on the test server, so I know they are le crap now.
Thats really not true. A LASB with 7 charges gives 3003 shields, a t2 LSE gives 2625. It might be a tad overnerfed, but its definitely not the same heavy handed super nerf other things are getting, like anything that wants to kite a battleship. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3628
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
Harbingour wrote:DEV BLOG wrote:"It will not be possible to place bounties on NPC characters (like agents) or corporations (but you can place a bounty on a player character in a NPC corporation), nor on CCP developers or ISD people."
Awwww I wasso much looking forward to collect on CCP Soundwave's 2 trillion in bounies \o/ I am very appreciative of the reduction on putting bounties on Alliances though & it sounds like good fairer amount. ( although a 0.1 ISK bounty minimum would be best )
I should not that you also get bounty payouts for killing starbases belonging to that alliance since those kills generate kill reports, with values Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly
33
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Dread Operative wrote:Thank you for killing the ASB . Single ASB ships are now useless because of the huge reduction in charges and dual ASB's are so underwhelming that they will barely be used. Sold off all my Ab's as soon as I read about the change. Why does CCP never listen to us about these "fixes"? Limiting 1 ASB per ship would still make them useful but not OP with the original stats. Stubborn hardheaded fools sometimes CCP. PS I have been testing them on the test server, so I know they are le crap now. Thats really not true. A LASB with 7 charges gives 3003 shields (2700 without heat), a t2 LSE gives 2625. It might be a tad overnerfed, but its definitely not the same heavy handed super nerf other things are getting, like anything that wants to kite a battleship. Edit: Above numbers are without blue pill or crystals, which obviously make the ASB better.
I've tested it. On paper it still looks good. But in actual application it is extremely underwhelming. |
|
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
364
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Dread Operative wrote:Thank you for killing the ASB . Single ASB ships are now useless because of the huge reduction in charges and dual ASB's are so underwhelming that they will barely be used. Sold off all my Ab's as soon as I read about the change. Why does CCP never listen to us about these "fixes"? Limiting 1 ASB per ship would still make them useful but not OP with the original stats. Stubborn hardheaded fools sometimes CCP. PS I have been testing them on the test server, so I know they are le crap now. Thats really not true. A LASB with 7 charges gives 3003 shields (2700 without heat), a t2 LSE gives 2625. It might be a tad overnerfed, but its definitely not the same heavy handed super nerf other things are getting, like anything that wants to kite a battleship. Edit: Above numbers are without blue pill or crystals, which obviously make the ASB better. I've tested it. On paper it still looks good. But in actual application it is extremely underwhelming.
Ive also tested it. My point is that in any fight where you get all 7 charges off, you have tanked more than you would have with an LSE (barring a few rare situations involving passive tank).
And thats comparing LSE to LASB - you can still fit an X-L to a cane or w/e. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
552
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
Why not make the bounty payout % slightly higher, the higher their bounty is?
Like say a pilot has 100 mil bounty on his head and his ship gets with 100 mil destroyed value... then the payout % is just 20% like you suggested yourself... but if he had 1 bil on his head it could be 30-40% making it more interesting to hunt pilots with higher bounties
Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
364
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:31:00 -
[73] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Why not make the bounty payout % slightly higher, the higher their bounty is?
Like say a pilot has 100 mil bounty on his head and his ship gets with 100 mil destroyed value... then the payout % is just 20% like you suggested yourself... but if he had 1 bil on his head it could be 30-40% making it more interesting to hunt pilots with higher bounties
You do realize that 20% of 1 bil is more than 20% of 100M, right? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10388
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Why not make the bounty payout % slightly higher, the higher their bounty is? Because it makes higher bounties hurt less than lower ones. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1966
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
These changes are always welcomed. Keep up the good work!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
11
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Elinea Marcutz wrote:**IS A FORUM ALT**
I totally wanna start a bounty hunting corp now! Anyone else interest, eve mail me and I'll get back to you from my main! me me me me!!
No fairs you can bounty hunt on us but we can't on you CCP Punkturis, I call shennanagins Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1164
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
Harbingour wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Elinea Marcutz wrote:**IS A FORUM ALT**
I totally wanna start a bounty hunting corp now! Anyone else interest, eve mail me and I'll get back to you from my main! me me me me!! No fairs you can bounty hunt on us but we can't on you CCP Punkturis, I call shennanagins I hope any kills performed by ISD's or CCP's should be treated like NPC kills & no bounty is awarded to them Then again maybe it would be a good ISK sink It would be funny to get a bounty report/KM on someone that was killed by an NPC or CCP so you could post the pilots shame of being killed by a rat on battle clinic. I think he meant he wanted an invite for his non-ccp pilots. We do not get to know who those are. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3630
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Harbingour wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Elinea Marcutz wrote:**IS A FORUM ALT**
I totally wanna start a bounty hunting corp now! Anyone else interest, eve mail me and I'll get back to you from my main! me me me me!! No fairs you can bounty hunt on us but we can't on you CCP Punkturis, I call shennanagins I hope any kills performed by ISD's or CCP's should be treated like NPC kills & no bounty is awarded to them Then again maybe it would be a good ISK sink It would be funny to get a bounty report/KM on someone that was killed by an NPC or CCP so you could post the pilots shame of being killed by a rat on battle clinic. I think he meant he wanted an invite for his non-ccp pilots. We do not get to know who those are.
I was just pointing out in a fun way that I like his idea and I hope that people will have fun with bounties and kill rights as that is pretty much the goal of our feature Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Celebris Nexterra
Lowsec Static Exodus.
58
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
Seconding what Hans said. I hate dual ASB setups with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns, but single ASB setups really add a lot of variation to the game, which is always nice. With nerfing capacity across the board and small/medium ASBs having a max capacity of 10, you're absolutely destroying their use. ASBs aren't clearly broken until you fight a dual XLASB Maelstrom or dual MASB Hawk, both of whose tank and damage are completely invulnerable to cap warfare. So don't nerf what isn't broken. Either that or add Navy 25s and 50s.
That being said, the rest of this blog is teh awesomez. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
747
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
I love the bounty changes.... You're doing an Awesome Job!!!!
There are still some areas of the new crimewatch system that need elaboration / consideration. When can expect to see an update on the crimewatch changes?
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
219
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:59:00 -
[81] - Quote
Can't wait to place bounties on forum trolls :) |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
365
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
I cant wait to place bounties on myself. |
Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc To be Announced.
10
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:10:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Nice work SuperFriends and friends ;) Gneeznow wrote:Edit: also now that sec hits are front loading, what kind of sec hit do you get when you destroy a ship? the full hit you now get when you 'gank' someone who doesn't fire back, or the 10~ smaller hit you get when they fire back at you? It is somewhere between the two. If you end up ganking to death about 50% of the targets you illegally aggress, you'll be roughly in a similar situation.
Doesn't look like it from what I've seen on Buckingham
-2.6% sec hit for 'ganking' someone with no return fire on tranquility -0.6% sec hit for return fire low sec engagement on tranquility -2.0% sec hit for aggression on Buckingham with retribution
This is a nerf to low sec pvpers who also want to keep their security status intact because they don't have loads of alts to do logistics for them (like myself)
So now I'll have to be far more picky in what I attack unless I want to spend as much time doing sec-gain runs in fountain as I do pvping. Thanks for once again making eve more like a chore and less like fun. |
Myriad Blaze
16
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
I'm not sure I would call adding a 25m3 drone bay to the Noctis a small adjustment but most certainly I like it. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
552
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:19:00 -
[85] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bubanni wrote:Why not make the bounty payout % slightly higher, the higher their bounty is? Because it makes higher bounties hurt less than lower ones.
Or by my logic, the higher bounty... the more you will get hunted. Instead of where the only thing that matters is the value of the ship that is destroyed... it adds incentive to put higher bounties on people as the people who then catch them will be rewarded more (even if the target is only using 1 mil rifters :) )
Edit: and as the target gets killed more and more and the bounty lowers down, the % payout would lower down again Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10388
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:21:00 -
[86] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Or by my logic, the higher bounty... the more you will get hunted. But that will happen anyway since you are a valuable target for longer. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1966
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:22:00 -
[87] - Quote
Great stuff. I do have a couple questions.
1. There has been extensive testing on the RAH and sometimes it's logic system gets weird. You would be taking a 1000 dps of only one damage type, say kinetic only. And if a lone warrior applies 1 damage of explosive the RAH would shift some resistance percentage to explosive when in reality it would be better to leave 100% to kinetic. Has this logic system been addressed?
2. Why the expiration of 30 days on a kill right? Revenge should not have an expiration date!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1452
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:24:00 -
[88] - Quote
Quote:Also, weGÇÖve changed a little bit how the cost scales depending on number of characters in defender corp/alliance. The cost now starts ramping up faster than before and thus hits the ceiling of 500 million sooner. Before the cost started scaling up around the 128 character mark and hit the ceiling at ca. 7200. After the change, the cost starts ramping up with the 51st character and hits the ceiling at the 2000 character mark. Haha. The EVE University adjustment. Good work, Kelduum, representing your constituents. Amarr Militia |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
784
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:27:00 -
[89] - Quote
Base cost for wars remain the same, the per character just scales earlier, faster, and hits the same cap sooner. Why scaling didn't happen at 50 before there really wasnt a good reason for, same thing with a character price cap that only 2 or 3 mega alliances hit. CCP's pretty much using the numbers I suggested, so if you got a problem with it blame me.
Since we DO have a sensible character scaling, there's no more need for the P-nerf multiplier and Super Friends is thankfully removing it. This will also solve the "honey pot" dec shield issue where lots of small corps left a war dec'd alliance to massively spike the cost of the attackers next war.
To the guy who's like "ZOMG THEY CAN PERMADEC ALL OF EVE" it's theoretically possible and i dont see a reason it shouldnt be an option for someone who makes 300bil a week (or whatever the massive number would be) and can still field the PVP numbers they'd need to take on everyone in empire. There's some scary people in the universe ;) I encourage someone to give it a try; if it's anything like Burn Jita it should be amazing content for everyone involved.
On Killrights: Free openly available suspect flag kill rights are Bad. I think encouraging people to just get rid of them by using an alt to kill them in a shuttle or face a permanent suspect flag is Bad. But the decision to allow killright holders to assign them to specific alliances, corps, or people is Good and I'm glad we dont have a wait for it. Just a shame that someone assigned the killright who tracks the target, activates the killright, and goes for the kill might not get it because anyone can attack the target and steal his prize.
On ASB: I'm with hans. Would rather see a 1-per-ship restriction and keep them viable then nerf them individually and force people to run doubles.
On MJD: Not a big fan of this mod and havnt been since Inferno, but I dont think it'll break anything too badly. If CCP wants it in, maybe players will find something cool to do with it. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
552
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:28:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bubanni wrote:Or by my logic, the higher bounty... the more you will get hunted. But that will happen anyway since you are a valuable target for longer.
That really depends on the value of the ships the pilot flies, what good is 1 bil bounty on a pilot that only flies 1 mil rifters :) it would take 5000 times to kill him to get it all payed out :) at the 20% rate of isk destroyed estimate.
I only see a positive side to higher %payouts on higher bounty total, at least on individual players, it should be different on alliance or corp scale Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10388
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:30:00 -
[91] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:That really depends on the value of the ships the pilot flies, what good is 1 bil bounty on a pilot that only flies 1 mil rifters :) it would take 5000 times to kill him to get it all payed out :) at the 20% rate of isk destroyed estimate. Exactly: hunted more. With a higher percentage payout, he'd switch to a cheaper ship to minimise his losses, be hunted about the same, and end up losing less than before. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
120
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
Celebris Nexterra wrote:Seconding what Hans said. I hate dual ASB setups with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns, but single ASB setups really add a lot of variation to the game, which is always nice. With nerfing capacity across the board and small/medium ASBs having a max capacity of 10, you're absolutely destroying their use. ASBs aren't clearly broken until you fight a dual XLASB Maelstrom or dual MASB Hawk, both of whose tank and damage are completely invulnerable to cap warfare. So don't nerf what isn't broken. Either that or add Navy 25s and 50s.
That being said, the rest of this blog is teh awesomez.
Yes i think making them neutable is the correct nerf rather than reducing their capacity. Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048 |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
347
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:38:00 -
[93] - Quote
Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
552
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:45:00 -
[94] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Bubanni wrote:That really depends on the value of the ships the pilot flies, what good is 1 bil bounty on a pilot that only flies 1 mil rifters :) it would take 5000 times to kill him to get it all payed out :) at the 20% rate of isk destroyed estimate. Exactly: hunted more. With a higher percentage payout, he'd switch to a cheaper ship to minimise his losses, be hunted about the same, and end up losing less than before.
I see your point, but I don't think that is how it would work... I merely suggested what I did to avoid having high bounties which be no different from low bounties. Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
11
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:55:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Harbingour wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Elinea Marcutz wrote:**IS A FORUM ALT**
I totally wanna start a bounty hunting corp now! Anyone else interest, eve mail me and I'll get back to you from my main! me me me me!! No fairs you can bounty hunt on us but we can't on you CCP Punkturis, I call shennanagins I hope any kills performed by ISD's or CCP's should be treated like NPC kills & no bounty is awarded to them Then again maybe it would be a good ISK sink It would be funny to get a bounty report/KM on someone that was killed by an NPC or CCP so you could post the pilots shame of being killed by a rat on battle clinic. I think he meant he SHE wanted an invite for his non-ccp pilots. We do not get to know who those are. I was just pointing out in a fun way that I like his idea and I hope that people will have fun with bounties and kill rights as that is pretty much the goal of our feature
I understand that and was playingwith ya a bit... still if bounties paid out to NPCs ( creating a new DESPERATELY NEEDED ISK sink) & created KM's for the guy's that put the bounty out on them so they could post these embarasments on battleclinic lowering their targets' kill ratios ever been brought up to CCP? Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
|
Valkyrs
Deep Vein Trading
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:56:00 -
[96] - Quote
I've been playing for a few years now and I still don't understand kill rights. Maybe now I'll be able to figure it out! Thanks for making it more clear.
Salvage drones, yummy!
Keep it up CCP!
-Valk |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1165
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:58:00 -
[97] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:...
To the guy who's like "ZOMG THEY CAN PERMADEC ALL OF EVE" it's theoretically possible and i dont see a reason it shouldnt be an option for someone who makes 300bil a week (or whatever the massive number would be) and can still field the PVP numbers they'd need to take on everyone in empire. There's some scary people in the universe ;) I encourage someone to give it a try; if it's anything like Burn Jita it should be amazing content for everyone involved.
Because having over half the players drop corp and live out of NPC corps does not constitute "Amazing content". http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
841
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:58:00 -
[98] - Quote
Quote:Salvage drones never loot, they only salvage. Also, there is no difference in the quality of the loot received GÇô salvage drones can salvage the same items as the salvage modules, the only difference being that because of lower chance they are much worse at salvaging difficult wrecks (and are incapable of salvaging the most difficult Sleeper wrecks).
Me: yay, awesome new item that will be extremely useful in WHs, thanks guys! CCP: oh i'm sorry, it doesnt work in WHs.
great. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10388
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Me: yay, awesome new item that will be extremely useful in WHs, thanks guys! CCP: oh i'm sorry, it doesnt work in WHs.
great. At 13% access chance, they should be able to salvage some of the lesser ones, but it'll take a whileGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
105
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:04:00 -
[100] - Quote
"WeGÇÖre giving [Noctis] a drone bay of 25m-¦. Initially, this was limited to salvage drones only, but we decided to remove that restriction, so you can now put any drone type in there."
Oh happy day! I had originally asked for a small drone bay when Noctis was just a dev blog itself. Thanks for making my Xmas dream come true, Team Super Friends! |
|
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1966
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:08:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. Bad ass!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
12
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:22:00 -
[102] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde a Space rich CSM'er wrote: Base cost for wars remain the same, the per character just scales earlier, faster, and hits the same cap sooner. Why scaling didn't happen at 50 before there really wasnt a good reason for, same thing with a character price cap that only 2 or 3 mega alliances hit. CCP's pretty much using the numbers I suggested, so if you got a problem with it blame me.
The possibility of this scaling IMHO stifles war decc's by making them too high a barrier is my issue with it. Now it appears that the Goons & other large NULL SEC alliances are rarely being decc'd because of it. Any stats on if the # of war decc's has increased; also also seperately has the ISK sink decreased because possibly people can't afford wardecc's?
Looks to me as if this scaling will most help many of those Alliances whom sit on the CSM Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
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Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
197
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:27:00 -
[103] - Quote
Wonderful work!!! wonderful work!!! Can't wait to see it on TQ!!!!! Please read this! > New POS system ( Block Built - Starbasecraft) Please read this! >-á[Debate] - ISK SINK |
Abramul
StarFleet Enterprises Red Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:30:00 -
[104] - Quote
Is it seen as problematic that someone could 'pretreat' a gank ship to collect their own bounty on death? (shoot and remote repair for long enough that you're guaranteed top damage, repeat every 15 minutes)
With a 20% cap, I can't see it being too much of a problem, but I could see people using this to get rebates on gank ships, putting you in a situation where bounties are still rewards to the bountied person, although less so than before. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1966
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:32:00 -
[105] - Quote
The war dec fee should only be based on characters actively training a skill. Corps and alliances use alts to bloat the war dec fee to evade a possible war dec. Now this tactic will become more effective.
Really would like CCP to address this. How about it CCP? CSM??
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
538
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:47:00 -
[106] - Quote
Most interested in the Battle Noctis FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1967
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:59:00 -
[107] - Quote
This how the kill right system you guys came up with will be gamed to regulate it back to be nothing again, well almost:
So I violence some dudes ship and now he has a kill right on me. Side question if he shoots back and I still kill him does that mean he does NOT have kill rights on me like the way it works now? Anyways, so if he is some poor guy that can't cash in the kill rights he has on me he can let others do it for him, cool.
If he sets the price too low to get the kill rights I will simply snatch it with an alt and pop myself in a noob ship. So he has to set the price much higher to keep me from buying it. All I will do is fly ships that are 'not worth buying the kill rights to cash in'. And as long as I'm not hanging out in high sec the whole time, I only have to avoid it for a month. Even in low sec kill rights are pointless because most of the pirates in there who get kill rights on them are already an outlaw, so what is the point?
You really need to remove the expiration date on kill rights to have any real effect on cashing them in. Even have the kill right only expire when enough damage in ISK has been done to match the ISK damage done that generated the kill right in the fist place.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1967
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:21:00 -
[108] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:Most interested in the Battle Noctis I already did that. Smart bomb fit. I wanted to make it interesting so I did it in high sec and made a point to not do it in a way where I would die to concord. Killed a destroyer iirc.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
367
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:32:00 -
[109] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:The war dec fee should only be based on characters actively training a skill. Corps and alliances use alts to bloat the war dec fee to evade a possible war dec. Now this tactic will become more effective.
+1 to this. |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
22
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Well, it all sounds good except the reduced number of members for War Increase costs. I still think this is bad in general and limits new upcoming PvP corps. While some fixes have & will help solve some issues ( I truly think this "fix" was purely targeted to resolve the Dec Shield Impact), you guys are still missing the true resolution to War mechanics. With all the Ideas that have been out there, you've still not grasped it yet. Mainly giving cause for defenders to take action... Incentive if you will... A goal. Both sides should have objectives that are possible to swing the war. At any rate, good stuff, we know the rest will come together with time. Keep up the good work! eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3635
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:45:00 -
[111] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:This how the kill right system you guys came up with will be gamed to regulate it back to be nothing again, well almost:
So I violence some dudes ship and now he has a kill right on me. Side question if he shoots back and I still kill him does that mean he does NOT have kill rights on me like the way it works now? Anyways, so if he is some poor guy that can't cash in the kill rights he has on me he can let others do it for him, cool.
If he sets the price too low to get the kill rights I will simply snatch it with an alt and pop myself in a noob ship. So he has to set the price much higher to keep me from buying it. All I will do is fly ships that are 'not worth buying the kill rights to cash in'. And as long as I'm not hanging out in high sec the whole time, I only have to avoid it for a month. Even in low sec kill rights are pointless because most of the pirates in there who get kill rights on them are already an outlaw, so what is the point?
You really need to remove the expiration date on kill rights to have any real effect on cashing them in. Even have the kill right only expire when enough damage in ISK has been done to match the ISK damage done that generated the kill right in the fist place.
he can make the kill right available to a specific char/corp/alliance... so it doesn't really mean that you could buy it yourself Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
388
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:47:00 -
[112] - Quote
Blog wrote:The aggressor now has the option to retract a war that has been made mutual by the defender. This ends the war in 24 hours. The other option here was to give the aggressor a chance to accept or refuse making the war mutual, but we felt the retraction was a cleaner and simpler solution. Wow, did you ever choose the wrong one. Eve is a griefers game and giving the aggressor (aka. griefer) complete control of the war at all times will ultimately break the war-dec system (again) .. By going with the other option, a corp/alliance being attacked due to looking like the numerous fat and timid out there, could rally the troops ... make it mutual and if trap the aggressor in a hell of their own making should he fail to see what transpired ... Would personally go so far as to give war-dec control of the war to the defender after a week if the mutual agreement went through to guarantee that the fools who overreached had time to get a bloody nose (or bruised forum epeen at the very least).
Blog wrote:Ancillary Shield Boosters GÇô weGÇÖre reducing the capacity by 30%, increasing the capacitor need by 40% and increased the duration of the X-Large ASB to 5 seconds from 4. WeGÇÖve tested several other changes, but feel this is enough at this stage. We want to be cautious in not nerfing them too much, but if further changes are needed we have another batch ready (this would make the ASBs use a small amount of cap even when fueled by a cap booster).... There is no nerf, barring one that makes it as ****-poor as armour reps, that is too harsh. Not only is it instantaneous as shield boosters are, but it benefits from amplifiers at no extra cost (other than fittings), it can be oversized extremely easily and it is two midslot mods (booster+injector) taking up just one slot making mids on the ships that have them to spare even MOAR! valuable. Increasing cap drain is pretty damn pointless as the handful of people who actually used it as a vanilla booster will just stay their hand and let it reload right off the bat.
Nerf it. If in doubt, nerf it some more! Should emo's take over the discussion, remove it from game "pending review" .. and relaunch it when you have a equivalent armour solution!
As for all the KR/Bounty stuff: Sounds awesome. About time they got some love/meaning (and soon abuse ) PS: Any plans to make KR tradeable? |
BlakPhoenix
Veni Vidi Vici Reloaded
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:49:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:I am not sure I get the kill right system, I don't use it now but just so I know.
* When someone assigns me permission to utilize a kill right can I activate it when I see them and start shooting? * If a kill right is activated then does that mean that if I fail to kill them like they dock or something is it gone for good or can you use it until a kill? * If you make it for anyone and a friend pops them in a shuttle is it gone or does it last the month?
- yes - and everybody else on grid too
- it's valid for 15 minutes and it can be activated again either until they lose a ship or 30 days have gone by
- then it's gone, them losing a ship always uses the kill right up
I hope that them self-destructing doesn't end the kill right else i can see the following situation occurring:
1. Kill right is activated, suspect initiates self destruct and begins warping between safes for 2 minutes. Suspect looses ship however no kill mail is ever given out and no chance is given to the person who bought the kill rights as they only have 2 minutes before the self-destruct ends. This could also be planned with a 3rd party alt in a rookie ship so there s no actual loss.
I would suggest that if they die due to self-destruct then the kill right is not removed, encourage people not to self destruct and to take the loss properly. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
227
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 22:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
How I see free-for-all public kill rights:
1) get into noobship;
2) use your alt to activate killrights and pop your free ship;
3) enjoy your free kill rights cleanse.
Is that "correct"? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1968
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:04:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:This how the kill right system you guys came up with will be gamed to regulate it back to be nothing again, well almost:
So I violence some dudes ship and now he has a kill right on me. Side question if he shoots back and I still kill him does that mean he does NOT have kill rights on me like the way it works now? Anyways, so if he is some poor guy that can't cash in the kill rights he has on me he can let others do it for him, cool.
If he sets the price too low to get the kill rights I will simply snatch it with an alt and pop myself in a noob ship. So he has to set the price much higher to keep me from buying it. All I will do is fly ships that are 'not worth buying the kill rights to cash in'. And as long as I'm not hanging out in high sec the whole time, I only have to avoid it for a month. Even in low sec kill rights are pointless because most of the pirates in there who get kill rights on them are already an outlaw, so what is the point?
You really need to remove the expiration date on kill rights to have any real effect on cashing them in. Even have the kill right only expire when enough damage in ISK has been done to match the ISK damage done that generated the kill right in the fist place. he can make the kill right available to a specific char/corp/alliance... so it doesn't really mean that you could buy it yourself True.
And you thoughts on removing the expiration date and war dec fees only calculating based on characters training a skill?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
843
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:06:00 -
[116] - Quote
I am very much looking forward to getting killrights on myself with an alt, setting them open to all for cheap and auto piloting through highsec in a bait ship :D
Tippia wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Me: yay, awesome new item that will be extremely useful in WHs, thanks guys! CCP: oh i'm sorry, it doesnt work in WHs.
great. At 13% access chance, they should be able to salvage some of the lesser ones, but it'll take a whileGǪ
I mean real WHs, where every wreck is a top of the line BS. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
172
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:08:00 -
[117] - Quote
Quote:The Suspect flag means that anyone in the vicinity can now attack the flagged player. Running through the scenarios of what this entails make this less of an issue than at first glance. * If the kill right is made available to everyone, but at a low price, the targeted player can simply use an alt or a friend to get rid of the kill right. This is then just an extra hoop to jump through for those players frequently causing others to get kill rights on them. * If the kill right is made available to everyone, but at a high price, then there is much less of a chance of it being activated constantly and thus less of a hassle. This is especially true when considering that players will likely be wary of kill right scams and thus not keen on paying to activate a kill right with a considerable cost. * If the kill right is made available to a specific entity, then this is little different than being at war GÇô you just need to remember whom to look out for as it is not as clearly shown as for war.
This bit here: clear as mud.
Could you please have another go at explaining this. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3635
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:12:00 -
[118] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:How I see free-for-all public kill rights:
1) get into noobship;
2) use your alt to activate killrights and pop your free ship;
3) enjoy your free kill rights cleanse.
Is that "correct"?
yes, which is why we implemented it so you can make them available to someone special (like your corp or alliance) Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3635
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:This how the kill right system you guys came up with will be gamed to regulate it back to be nothing again, well almost:
So I violence some dudes ship and now he has a kill right on me. Side question if he shoots back and I still kill him does that mean he does NOT have kill rights on me like the way it works now? Anyways, so if he is some poor guy that can't cash in the kill rights he has on me he can let others do it for him, cool.
If he sets the price too low to get the kill rights I will simply snatch it with an alt and pop myself in a noob ship. So he has to set the price much higher to keep me from buying it. All I will do is fly ships that are 'not worth buying the kill rights to cash in'. And as long as I'm not hanging out in high sec the whole time, I only have to avoid it for a month. Even in low sec kill rights are pointless because most of the pirates in there who get kill rights on them are already an outlaw, so what is the point?
You really need to remove the expiration date on kill rights to have any real effect on cashing them in. Even have the kill right only expire when enough damage in ISK has been done to match the ISK damage done that generated the kill right in the fist place. he can make the kill right available to a specific char/corp/alliance... so it doesn't really mean that you could buy it yourself True. And you thoughts on removing the expiration date and war dec fees only calculating based on characters training a skill?
I dont' know if the designers have talked about removing the expiration date but we have a backlog of war dec stories we've been wanting to work on for a long time and hope we get the chance to work on after Retribution I don't remember what exactly is in it or how it's prioritized.. Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1045
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.
If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.
As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement? Where I am. |
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Mika Takahoshi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:26:00 -
[121] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:... CCP's pretty much using the numbers I suggested, so if you got a problem with it blame me. It's no use. Poetic is immune to facts...
I do have a question regarding salvage drones. I know they don't loot, but are they capable of making cans at exploration mag sites lootable in the same manner the salvage module does? |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
787
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.
If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.
As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement? If you're shot in highsec and not instantly killed, CONCORD should relieve your attacker of their pretty swiftly. Not sure about if you shoot back at them (it doesn't usually come up)... "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1968
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:37:00 -
[123] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.
If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.
As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement? If you're shot in highsec and not instantly killed, CONCORD should relieve your attacker of their pretty swiftly. Not sure about if you shoot back at them (it doesn't usually come up)... God forbid the players being ganked be allowed to defend themselves right?
Also it applies more to low sec where concord is not there to bail you out. Did you guys test to see??
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
2354
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:42:00 -
[124] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:I was just pointing out in a fun way that I like his idea and I hope that people will have fun with bounties and kill rights as that is pretty much the goal of our feature I would like to give you the opportunity to deny the horrible rumor that is going around that bounty payouts on members of the CSM that you don't like are automatically doubled. Thanks in advance!
Your bestest friend on the council, Trebor The Sarcasm is Strong with Me GÇó Member of CSM 5-7 GÇó Blog |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3358
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:51:00 -
[125] - Quote
You know what's missing from this Dev blog??
"New Forum Functionality: [Place Bounty]"
(Yes, I'm still completely serious.)
Thumbs up everyone if you want to turn badposts into emergent gameplay and content generation! Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3646
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:54:00 -
[126] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:I was just pointing out in a fun way that I like his idea and I hope that people will have fun with bounties and kill rights as that is pretty much the goal of our feature I would like to give you the opportunity to deny the horrible rumor that is going around that bounty payouts on members of the CSM that you don't like are automatically doubled. Thanks in advance! Your bestest friend on the council, Trebor
haha!! Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Camios
Minmatar Bread Corporation
108
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 23:56:00 -
[127] - Quote
Hi there!
Can any dev confirm that the "20% of the loss value" takes platinum insurance (or the actual level the ship was insured at) into consideration? I hope/think so, otherwise it can be easily exploited.
I ask this because most people tend to think that If, for example, they kill a battlecruiser worth 100 mil they get 20mil maximum in reward. If platinum insurance is taken into consideration, the loss is not 100 millions, but much less, so the maximum payous shoud be much less than 20 millions. |
Riikard Thexder
Cup Of ConKrete
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 01:24:00 -
[128] - Quote
So what is the point of the new bounty system if we still cant kill people with bounty on thier heads. The new bounty system is not going to make bounty hunting a career possibility, People with bounty are still safe to stay in NPC corps and never venture into low/null cant be war dec'd, so the bounty is unclaimable and therefore a waste of isk and time just like in the old system. We should be able to buy kill rights from the bounty office, OR sign up to the bounty off like FW that gives players/corps/allience kill rights over anyone who has a bounty on thier head. |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
788
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 01:29:00 -
[129] - Quote
Harbingour wrote:Alekseyev Karrde a Space rich CSM'er wrote: Base cost for wars remain the same, the per character just scales earlier, faster, and hits the same cap sooner. Why scaling didn't happen at 50 before there really wasnt a good reason for, same thing with a character price cap that only 2 or 3 mega alliances hit. CCP's pretty much using the numbers I suggested, so if you got a problem with it blame me.
The possibility of this scaling IMHO stifles war decc's by making them too high a barrier is my issue with it. Now it appears that the Goons & other large NULL SEC alliances are rarely being decc'd because of it. Any stats on if the # of war decc's has increased; also also seperately has the ISK sink decreased because possibly people can't afford wardecc's? Looks to me as if this scaling will most help many of those Alliances whom sit on the CSM The cap for wars is the same, dec'ing 2k-4k alliances will a little bit more expensive but not overly much. 4k-7k will essentially be the same. If you can afford a 450m war dec, you can afford 500m. I think the scaling combined with the multiplier removal will makes life easier for war decers.. Which I guess DOES benefit the alliances of people on the CSM. Mostly mine imo, just not in the way you think. Space rich has nothing to do with it.
I am though. Hope it keeps you up at night "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
788
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 01:31:00 -
[130] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:The war dec fee should only be based on characters actively training a skill. Corps and alliances use alts to bloat the war dec fee to evade a possible war dec. Now this tactic will become more effective.
Really would like CCP to address this. How about it CCP? CSM?? I still think this is needed, been asking for it since Inferno. It's almost certainly wont make it for Retribution. No word from Team Super Friends as to whether it will make it in the point releases. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
788
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 01:37:00 -
[131] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Also it applies more to low sec where concord is not there to bail you out. Did you guys test to see?? pods cant shoot back anyway.
You should really read dev blogs in order before you post in anger
#alektookcareofit "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
412
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 02:01:00 -
[132] - Quote
Sweeet!
..except for that ASB mod. Should have gone with the cap use and left the duration alone. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1969
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 02:11:00 -
[133] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Also it applies more to low sec where concord is not there to bail you out. Did you guys test to see?? pods cant shoot back anyway. You should really read dev blogs in order before you post in anger #alektookcareofit So asking a question is considered posting in anger? I have read that dev blog a few times before and my question I asked above was very specific. I thought the entire point of threads like these is so us, the players, can ask questions and provide feed back.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Andre Coeurl
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 02:11:00 -
[134] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen and Alekseyev Karrde together with other have already noted how excessive is the nerf in capacity to ASB, it hits the small and medium sized ships terribly... at the end the the question is, why would someone use an ASB if the total hitpoints he can get are the same as the equivalent sized shield extender?
True, it can be overheated, but it will create damage, and true it can be reloaded, but for practical purposes once it starts reloading you're either out of the fight or you'll die. The shield extender increases the HPs but also increases the shield recharge /s, it's easier to fit, and protects from alpha much better than an ASB does.
ASBs are a problem when used in pairs or when they can be oversized, but on most ships they are fine as they are as just a decent alternative to shield buffer after all. Surely there's still time to review this nerf before the expansion. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
412
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 02:21:00 -
[135] - Quote
Andre Coeurl wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen and Alekseyev Karrde together with other have already noted how excessive is the nerf in capacity to ASB, it hits the small and medium sized ships terribly... at the end the the question is, why would someone use an ASB if the total hitpoints he can get are the same as the equivalent sized shield extender?
True, it can be overheated, but it will create damage, and true it can be reloaded, but for practical purposes once it starts reloading you're either out of the fight or you'll die. The shield extender increases the HPs but also increases the shield recharge /s, it's easier to fit, and protects from alpha much better than an ASB does.
ASBs are a problem when used in pairs or when they can be oversized, but on most ships they are fine as they are as just a decent alternative to shield buffer after all. Surely there's still time to review this nerf before the expansion.
I think it will move to being a secondary module now. Sort of like having an extra Armor Rep and not having the capacitorto power it, but having a Cap Booster in the mids, and cycling it and the booster to recover from a hard hit faster.
Difference will be that you'll run a shield booster and probably have an Amp. and Burst tank with the ASB. Might be good for Tech II set up that way, where the current ASB could never be a Tech 2 module as it would be extremely overpowered even in Meta levels.
I'd like to take a run at setting up a Raven for this an see how it looks, and maybe put a Rokh together and fit it with a Micro Jump if it'll do it. At least to see if it's viable, if for no other reason. Don't think the Raven will fit a Microjump, Shield Booster, and an ASB, but the Rokh probably can. Might actually make it a worthwhile ship to fly. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
1157
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 02:32:00 -
[136] - Quote
Off the top of my head I can think of a few issues that still have not been addressed.
- Bounty contracts need to expire, just like normal contracts. This also solves the issue of "person quits playing for 5 months, what happens to my money?". If the bounty expires under that case, there's not much reason why it couldn't be limited to 30/60/90 days in the normal case. Personally, I think a 30-day limit would strike a nice balance between longevity and being able to grief someone out of the game for 5 months.
- The overview / local indicator for who has a bounty will be mostly useless in places like Jita where bored pilots will just place 100k bounties on anyone in local. There needs to be an overview setting where you can set limits on the minimum bounty amount.
- There needs to be a limit on how many bounties you can place at once, just like public contracts. Maybe it initially uses up the contract slots until a specific skill could be added later. This would also help fight the "bored pilots placing bounties on everyone" issue.
- As much as CCP cries about inflation, you're still passing up the opportunity to add at least some sort of ISK sink into the public bounties. Such as setup fees, taxes on the total amount (1-5%) and only returning some (80-90%) of the remaining bounty if it expires.
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Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
16
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 02:39:00 -
[137] - Quote
Any chance of making the Salvage Drones spread out among wrecks, rather than ganging up and potentially wasting a bunch of effort? |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
369
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 02:51:00 -
[138] - Quote
Riikard Thexder wrote:So what is the point of the new bounty system if we still cant kill people with bounty on thier heads. The new bounty system is not going to make bounty hunting a career possibility, People with bounty are still safe to stay in NPC corps and never venture into low/null cant be war dec'd, so the bounty is unclaimable and therefore a waste of isk and time just like in the old system. We should be able to buy kill rights from the bounty office, OR sign up to the bounty off like FW that gives players/corps/allience kill rights over anyone who has a bounty on thier head.
Im sure you can think of a way to kill people in highsec. (Hint: tornados)
Still no response about the micro jump drive, eh? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2764
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 02:53:00 -
[139] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Also it applies more to low sec where concord is not there to bail you out. Did you guys test to see?? pods cant shoot back anyway. You should really read dev blogs in order before you post in anger #alektookcareofit So asking a question is considered posting in anger? I have read that dev blog a few times before and my question I asked above was very specific. I thought the entire point of threads like these is so us, the players, can ask questions and provide feed back. If it was tested and confirmed to still grant the kill right then all you had to say was, "Yes, we tested it and made sure the kill right would not be voided by defending yourself." Christ...
Marlona, I think what he is getting at is this:
Quote:Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed.
Combined with the fact that in low sec you only get criminal flags for messing with peoples pods, not their ships. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 03:28:00 -
[140] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:I was just pointing out in a fun way that I like his idea and I hope that people will have fun with bounties and kill rights as that is pretty much the goal of our feature I would like to give you the opportunity to deny the horrible rumor that is going around that bounty payouts on members of the CSM that you don't like are automatically doubled. Thanks in advance! Your bestest friend on the council, Trebor
they should be tripled Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
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Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
82
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 05:10:00 -
[141] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Salpad wrote:Also, why do you make it known to the target who placed the bounty? People are just going to use disposable or secrets alts to place bounties anyway. It's a silly mechanic.
from our initial feedback we got that some people wanted the name there and others not, for those who want to make it known like "yo I don't like you, I'm placing a bounty on you" can just do it with their own dude... others can use alts or a corporation specializing in placing bounties for others
I was about to say the same thing, that you're taking away the luxury and pleasure of checking in on your bounties by forcing us to use unknown alts, but if people really wanted their names visible on bounties this works I guess. It's just an inconvenience. Maybe... you could have the option to select whether to inform the target or not, like you can when adding contacts.... hmmm..... |
Deornoth Drake
Hooded Underworld Guys The Retirement Club
12
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 05:19:00 -
[142] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:Most interested in the Battle Noctis
Battle Noctis was the first thing I was thinking about after reading the drone bay adjustment |
None ofthe Above
368
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 05:28:00 -
[143] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Off the top of my head I can think of a few issues that still have not been addressed.
- Bounty contracts need to expire, just like normal contracts. This also solves the issue of "person quits playing for 5 months, what happens to my money?". If the bounty expires under that case, there's not much reason why it couldn't be limited to 30/60/90 days in the normal case. Personally, I think a 30-day limit would strike a nice balance between longevity and being able to grief someone out of the game for 5 months.
- The overview / local indicator for who has a bounty will be mostly useless in places like Jita where bored pilots will just place 100k bounties on anyone in local. There needs to be an overview setting where you can set limits on the minimum bounty amount.
- There needs to be a limit on how many bounties you can place at once, just like public contracts. Maybe it initially uses up the contract slots until a specific skill could be added later. This would also help fight the "bored pilots placing bounties on everyone" issue.
- As much as CCP cries about inflation, you're still passing up the opportunity to add at least some sort of ISK sink into the public bounties. Such as setup fees, taxes on the total amount (1-5%) and only returning some (80-90%) of the remaining bounty if it expires.
+1; None likes.
But would l like to add... a great deal of like for Team Superfriends for adding the killright limitations, I think that goes a long way to mitigating the serious flaw in an interesting system. Very much appreciated that you listened to our feedback and made that change. EVE is a sandbox; The only "end-game" content in EVE is the crap that makes you rage-quit.
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Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 06:27:00 -
[144] - Quote
The changes/improvements look good apart from the badly handled ASB nerf. Try flying a frig/cruiser with the new not XL ASBs and notice how nerfing all ASB to bring the XL-sized version in line made the rest useless. Keep in mind that there are no navy cap boosters for the smaller variants.
While overall the balancing path seems decent and I am extremely happy with the new CCP, try iterating over ships/modules by introducing small gentle tweaks over time instead of the "nerf" -- "unnerf" cycles with high powercreep. While I understand that it takes some time to see the full result of a balancing change, if you're going to wait every time for a whole new expansion to rebalance mods/ships, you're doing it wrong.
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Imawuss
Origin. Black Legion.
48
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Posted - 2012.11.22 06:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
Why not tie the bounty system and the kill right system?
So in addition to the current changes: A person could sell a kill right to an actually bounty hunter who then can hunt the target. Upon kill the bounty hunter would then get 100% of only the bounty that the player who sold the kill right put on him. plus he then would get all the rest of the normal bounty payout if more people had bounties on the target.
This basically acts as a contract, sell kill right for 25m but put a 50 mil bounty on target. When target is killed you also receive a killmail so you know the details of the kill and if you want to use that bounty hunter again. Seems fair and easy, It would not detract from the current system and just adds a little more flavor. |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 07:19:00 -
[146] - Quote
The cycle time, cap booster capacity and cap usage were not really any kind of issues with ASBs- their problem is ridiculously easy fitting, that results in every ASB ship opting for dual oversized ASBs.
If their fitting was realistic and in line with other modules in game, ASBs would be balanced and fun.
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Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
22
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Posted - 2012.11.22 07:34:00 -
[147] - Quote
Ok, I was just reminded and yet didn't see any further iteration on the topic of NOT being able to Eject with a Weapons flag? Is that staying as is? All because of the T3s? So someone going down in flames can't pre-explosion-eject to save their pod, or try to remember to stop firing 60 seconds before they pop (as if we really want to stop fighting). The option to eject should always be up to the pilot. With the concern to T3's just write it so if their T3 ship (that still has them with Ownership) pops after they eject, they still get the skill loss hit. Is this too difficult to do?
And... Wormholes... Why the hell does a Wormhole care what flag you have to deny you access if you are Criminally flag? I didn't realize that wormholes had intelligence.
Anything on this kind of stuff for the new Aggro mechanics?
A lot of it is good, but some stuff just doesn't make any logical sense. eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
Garia666
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Sinewave Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 08:18:00 -
[148] - Quote
i heard rumors that the logi change has been reverted. was hoping tor ead about it here. Logis still get full aggro right when repping in empire?
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nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc. Reverberation Project
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 08:58:00 -
[149] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Chribba wrote:
Also @ the activation of a kill right, if I activate it for everyone, will this mean I will get a "kill report" in my list if someone else kills him on my behalf?
/c
you won't get a kill report in your list, but you get a notification telling you that your kill right was used up by someone. and the kill report will say that the pilot was killed on your behalf. it could have been kewl to see the kill, and especially what the target lost |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3659
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:38:00 -
[150] - Quote
Imawuss wrote:Why not tie the bounty system and the kill right system?
So in addition to the current changes: A person could sell a kill right to an actually bounty hunter who then can hunt the target. Upon kill the bounty hunter would then get 100% of only the bounty that the player who sold the kill right put on him. plus he then would get all the rest of the normal bounty payout if more people had bounties on the target.
This basically acts as a contract, sell kill right for 25m but put a 50 mil bounty on target. When target is killed you also receive a killmail so you know the details of the kill and if you want to use that bounty hunter again. Seems fair and easy, It would not detract from the current system and just adds a little more flavor.
When someone is killed using your kill right, the kill report says "Killed on behalf of Imawuss" and you also get a notification saying that someone used up your kill right
We wanted to add a link to the kill report in the notification but couldn't get to that for Retribution.. maybe later! Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3659
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:43:00 -
[151] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.
If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.
As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement?
As soon as someone shoots at you where he's not allowed to the kill right is created and he's flagged a s a criminal. That means you can shoot back at him (and everybody else on grid) and still get to keep your kill right. Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1971
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:53:00 -
[152] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.
If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.
As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement? As soon as someone shoots at you where he's not allowed to the kill right is created and he's flagged a s a criminal. That means you can shoot back at him (and everybody else on grid) and still get to keep your kill right. My question finally answered. Thank you!
#thatwasnotsohardwasitalek?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Pat0chan
Fake World
33
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:56:00 -
[153] - Quote
What I understand for this new kill right stuff, is that now High sec is even more dangerous to fly in than before! Eg: I fly a freighter (wich cant defend, cant cloack, cant do ****) from gate to gate... A chap scan me down, see i carry goods, place a kill right on me... Next gate I have a whole system waiting for me to be poped and of course Concord will not move anymore. Or I'm mining in a belt didnt ask anything to anybody, a space fellas jump in belt, place a kill right and booom dead again.
Did I understood the new kill right system correctly? |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
245
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:58:00 -
[154] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky.
This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3660
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 09:59:00 -
[155] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.
If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.
As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement? As soon as someone shoots at you where he's not allowed to the kill right is created and he's flagged a s a criminal. That means you can shoot back at him (and everybody else on grid) and still get to keep your kill right. My question finally answered. Thank you! #thatwasnotsohardwasitalek?
I just wanted you to wait a bit for the answer so you would appreciate it more Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
245
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 10:01:00 -
[156] - Quote
Pat0chan wrote:What I understand for this new kill right stuff, is that now High sec is even more dangerous to fly in than before! Eg: I fly a freighter (wich cant defend, cant cloack, cant do ****) from gate to gate... A chap scan me down, see i carry goods, place a kill right on me... Next gate I have a whole system waiting for me to be poped and of course Concord will not move anymore. Or I'm mining in a belt didnt ask anything to anybody, a space fellas jump in belt, place a kill right and booom dead again.
Did I understood the new kill right system correctly?
There is an important difference between bounties and kill rights. Bounties can be placed on anyone, but this never leads to you becoming a legal target. A kill right is only created if you do something that flags you as a criminal. |
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Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
762
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 10:07:00 -
[157] - Quote
Marsan wrote:Iam Widdershins wrote: hisec warfare is such an excellent introductory arena for aspiring PVPers, \ What are you smoking? Hisec wars are the worse intro to pvp you can get unless you include red vs blue and other groups that use it for consensual pvp that prevents outside interference. Wars in Eve are annoying affairs of station games, gate camping, and hiding. The wars I've been in were boring as the other side rarely fought unless they had a 3 to 1 advantage or massive numbers of neutral repers. The problem with high sec wars is that there is no way for a defender to force an aggressor into battle. Nor is there a reason to do so. Until there is a means to do so most defenders are simply going to station up, drop corp, hang out in LS/NS/WH or the like. The last war I was in our alliance was in the aggressor never left the trade hubs, and stationed up when more than one of us was in system. If you want a good intro to pvp join one of the newbie training corps, join faction warfare, join a LS corp, join a NS corp.... Heck even joining the Goons will teach you a valuable lesson about eve pvp;-) PS- I don't disagree that aggressor being able to leave mutual wars is a good idea. Sounds like you've only ever fought worthless scrubs. Just sayin'. Anyone who did any of the things you described wouldn't even earn standing room with me, and hardly even counts as a PVPer. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
254
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 10:11:00 -
[158] - Quote
Having to ACTIVATE killrights just doesn't go hand in hand with the fast reactions a player has to achieve in order to tackle an enemy at the right time...
I am truly puzzled and hope the feedback will be followed intensely to see if I'm right or wrong (and not like it was promised to follow up on hybrid rebalance yet it was left in silence)
Good luck with the many other cool things you're introducing to Eve. |
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal Dec Shield
459
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 10:25:00 -
[159] - Quote
Sorry I'm late to the party here. A few questions:
1.) Will the wardec retraction feature be part of the game at launch of the expansion? Or released sometime in the weeks that follow? The wording can be interpreted both ways and I want to be able to tell people when they should expect to be free.
2.) The intention here seems to be to shift wardec favor back towards the aggressors because there are no longer consequences for biting off more than they can chew. Is the 24hr retraction timer a final solution or a stopgap measure for something else?
3.) Have you considered letting corps with outgoing wars join alliances? (Just forbid them from declaring outgoing wars after their app has been accepted)
Burn Highsec Griefers |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
246
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 10:36:00 -
[160] - Quote
The Zerg Overmind wrote:Sorry I'm late to the party here. A few questions:
1.) Will the wardec retraction feature be part of the game at launch of the expansion? Or released sometime in the weeks that follow? The wording can be interpreted both ways and I want to be able to tell people when they should expect to be free.
This change will be in Retribution.
The Zerg Overmind wrote: 2.) The intention here seems to be to shift wardec favor back towards the aggressors because there are no longer consequences for biting off more than they can chew. Is the 24hr retraction timer a final solution or a stopgap measure for something else?
The retract war option is only available if the war is made mutual by the defender. So declaring a war is always going to lock you in that war for 7 days, unless a surrender (or this new mutual/retract) option is used, but that is not a one-sided decision by the aggressor.
The Zerg Overmind wrote: 3.) Have you considered letting corps with outgoing wars join alliances? (Just forbid them from declaring outgoing wars after their app has been accepted)
At the moment there is no plan to allow this. |
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yucci
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 10:53:00 -
[161] - Quote
Mostly this update looks awesome.. Except the poor ASB.
As most people have already commented on the nerf bat delivering a whopping blow to this module, no one has touched on its existing penalty - Fitting. Its already a major cow to fit, usually needing a cpu enhancer, or 2 for a dual ASB fit. This obviously limits dps modules. A dual asb fit ship on most set-ups do a lot less dps than a buffer fit - this is already a big enough penalty to use this module.
I really cant see this module getting much use with the proposed nerf, especially as a secondary module with its fitting requirements. What was the idea behind introducing this mod ?? whatever it was its pointless now. |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers THORN Alliance
91
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 11:46:00 -
[162] - Quote
Personally I just play the game and you guys make changes, so I deal with them. I would only comment if I think something is very messed up or really wrong.
It has come to my attention that you are increasing cap usage for the ASB. Have you considered how this will affect the tournament teams? (I like the fact people can make sustained ASB tanks with a few cap transfers) "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
167
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 11:47:00 -
[163] - Quote
Please change the colour from Orange for a Bounty Target. Currently in Faction Warfare, enemies are already orange. Pink is good this time of year I hear? But seriously, there are like other colours available ;) Caldari focused fleet PvP
Join us for 100% Caldari fleets in Faction Warfare and small fleet PvP
www.thedeadrabbitsociety.com/recruitment |
Kaeda Maxwell
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
184
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 11:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
Best thing ever. I think I just unquit EVE.
Now I have to go create a bounty hunting organisation. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3667
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 12:23:00 -
[165] - Quote
Moonaura wrote:Please change the colour from Orange for a Bounty Target. Currently in Faction Warfare, enemies are already orange. Pink is good this time of year I hear? But seriously, there are like other colours available ;)
Bounty guy has black background (pilots with available kill rights have orange), I agree, pink would be much MUCH MUCH better but the art director (CCP Huskarl) doesn't like pink in EVE.. do you think I should maybe take it personally?
Buuuuut do you know that you can change all the color tags to your liking by opening the overview settings, go to appearance, colortag and right click on the entry you want to change the color of and pick a color you like Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Dieter Rams
The Nommo
25
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 12:24:00 -
[166] - Quote
Cordo Draken wrote:Ok, I was just reminded and yet didn't see any further iteration on the topic of NOT being able to Eject with a Weapons flag? Is that staying as is? All because of the T3s? So someone going down in flames can't pre-explosion-eject to save their pod, or try to remember to stop firing 60 seconds before they pop (as if we really want to stop fighting). The option to eject should always be up to the pilot. With the concern to T3's just write it so if their T3 ship (that still has them with Ownership) pops after they eject, they still get the skill loss hit. Is this too difficult to do?
And... Wormholes... Why the hell does a Wormhole care what flag you have to deny you access if you are Criminally flag? I didn't realize that wormholes had intelligence.
Anything on this kind of stuff for the new Aggro mechanics?
A lot of it is good, but some stuff just doesn't make any logical sense.
Can we please have an update on this? Like players weren't risknaverse enough already... |
Kmelx
Bite Me inc
51
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 12:46:00 -
[167] - Quote
Andre Coeurl wrote:Surely there's still time to review this nerf before the expansion.
Your clearly unfamiliar with the way CCP operate.
It goes something like this - make bad decision>people complain about bad decision> screw it, not like we care what they think> implement bad decision anyway>annoy large numbers of people>if bad decision is not truly game breaking, its just bad>never give it another thought and go and break something else.
Crap ASB nerf is crap.
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Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
221
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 12:53:00 -
[168] - Quote
"If youGÇÖre fighting a character that has bounty on him and he self-destructs or is killed by CONCORD, you still get the bounty. The bounty then goes to the player with the highest damage contribution."
If your in a high sec squad squad, can you do 1 damage to each other, shoot the high value target, get popped by concord, and collect bounties on each other.
If so it effectively means bounties are useless against gankers because they can collect each others bounties when they plan on getting killed by concord.
IMO concord should collect/neutralize the bounty if they do the most damage.
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
892
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 13:17:00 -
[169] - Quote
Dieter Rams wrote:Cordo Draken wrote:Ok, I was just reminded and yet didn't see any further iteration on the topic of NOT being able to Eject with a Weapons flag? Is that staying as is? All because of the T3s? So someone going down in flames can't pre-explosion-eject to save their pod, or try to remember to stop firing 60 seconds before they pop (as if we really want to stop fighting). The option to eject should always be up to the pilot. With the concern to T3's just write it so if their T3 ship (that still has them with Ownership) pops after they eject, they still get the skill loss hit. Is this too difficult to do?
And... Wormholes... Why the hell does a Wormhole care what flag you have to deny you access if you are Criminally flag? I didn't realize that wormholes had intelligence.
Anything on this kind of stuff for the new Aggro mechanics?
A lot of it is good, but some stuff just doesn't make any logical sense. Can we please have an update on this? Like players weren't risk averse enough already... We've looked at the eject-timer concerns when they were raised, but that change is currently still going ahead.
The wormhole restriction is there because evading CONCORD in high-sec is always an exploit, and so high-sec wormholes have to prevent criminals from using them for this reason. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace
196
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:02:00 -
[170] - Quote
I've skipped pages so this may have been covered but...
Here's a situation.
2 pirates are bout to go out pirating. Pirate A has a huge bounty on his head and he's decided to fly his fancy faction BS. before they go out, they spend 15 min with pirate B shooting at Pirate A while repping him at the same time.
the two pirates then go out and withing 15min Pirate A dies in an explosion.
Pirate B would appear on that kill mail from the previous aggression and would have the highest damage done.
Would pirate B get the bounty?
edit: Further more, if they kept firing the odd shot here and there at each other, they'd keep the aggression between each other and keep adding to the damage done.
So when either died they'd get the bounty? |
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Caldari 5
The Element Syndicate
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:18:00 -
[171] - Quote
Quote:Reactive Armor Hardener GÇô this module is basically doing what itGÇÖs supposed to do, but we wanted to give it a bit more oomph, so weGÇÖve increased how much the resistances shift every cycle. It is now 6% instead of 3%. Also, the skill Armor Resistance Phasing now also reduces capacitor need of using a RAH.
Hrmmm I came across this for the first time in the market a couple of days ago and thought that it was a dodgy ENAM that required Cap. The Attributes tab doesn't include anything about the Resistance Changes, and the Fluff on the Description tab was very Vague.
Salvage drones look good, I might change the fit on the Orca to 2 Tractors(+ Gang Link) and include a flight of these with the Medium T2 Combats for HS. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
370
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 14:43:00 -
[172] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry
What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you? |
StuRyan
UK Space Marines
45
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 17:14:00 -
[173] - Quote
"Ancillary Shield Boosters GÇô weGÇÖre reducing the capacity by 30%, increasing the capacitor need by 40% and increased the duration of the X-Large ASB to 5 seconds from 4. WeGÇÖve tested several other changes, but feel this is enough at this stage. We want to be cautious in not nerfing them too much, but if further changes are needed we have another batch ready (this would make the ASBs use a small amount of cap even when fueled by a cap booster). But we donGÇÖt want to do that unless it is obviously needed."
Why do you always bring the nerf hammer down on items that are actually really enjoyable. I means, it gives people the chance to live on the edge and try NEW game tactics out. I appreciate peoples opinion on this module being too imbalanced, but take off the reactive cap, put the proactive thinking face on and come up with something original that combats this module.....
Serisouly... imbalance is good, in time you create under currents...and the result of that is new gaming styles.. Stop nerfing ****. We kill well or die laughing * UK PVP CORP RECRUITING * Please join AHREC |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
60
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 17:47:00 -
[174] - Quote
Quote:It will not be possible to place bounties on NPC characters (like agents) or corporations (but you can place a bounty on a player character in a NPC corporation), nor on CCP developers
CCP, show us that you are not afraid of your creation. Red Maiden: People actually play with WiS off? Why? It's really well done, and adds an excellent layer of immersion in the game. Plus, my character's ass is out of this world and I like looking at it. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3673
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 17:57:00 -
[175] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Quote:It will not be possible to place bounties on NPC characters (like agents) or corporations (but you can place a bounty on a player character in a NPC corporation), nor on CCP developers CCP, show us that you are not afraid of your creation.
we felt it wouldn't be very much fun to have CCP devs on the most wanted list since you can't claim the bounty on them Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx
99
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 18:00:00 -
[176] - Quote
Quick question:
Can you place bounties anonymously?
Other than that the changes seem to be wonderful and I see retribution as one of the most interesting expansions yet! |
Lolar55
Titan Core
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 18:04:00 -
[177] - Quote
What happens If i place bounty on someone but i delete the character that placed the bounty? There is already a way to evade knowing who placed a bounty on you just do it with alt in npc corp? Will ccp forbid people in npc corps placing bounty? |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3673
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 18:10:00 -
[178] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:Quick question: Can you place bounties anonymously? Other than that the changes seem to be wonderful and I see retribution as one of the most interesting expansions yet!
Lolar55 wrote:What happens If i place bounty on someone but i delete the character that placed the bounty? There is already a way to evade knowing who placed a bounty on you just do it with alt in npc corp? Will ccp forbid people in npc corps placing bounty?
you can not place bounties anonymously, if you don't want the person you're placing bounty on to know it was you, you have to use an alt or a 3rd party (I hear some of those services are popping up)
we would never forbid people in NPC corps to place bounties.. it's not that we think people HAVE to do it with their character, we just wanted those who WANT to do it in a way that the other person knows they don't like them or want them dead, can do so Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Lolar55
Titan Core
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 18:14:00 -
[179] - Quote
Thanks for the clear up this opens up a whole new level of gameplay for the hunters and the hunted.Seems fun can't wait |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
371
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 18:51:00 -
[180] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon?
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1973
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 19:14:00 -
[181] - Quote
Will devs log in to personally collect bounties on players?
Come at me bros!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3696
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 19:30:00 -
[182] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Will devs log in to personally collect bounties on players? Come at me bros!
when you die in EVE, it's ALWAYS me who has the final blow
true story! (not really) Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
217
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 19:45:00 -
[183] - Quote
I think a better nerf for the asb's would have been to remove the ability to use two and the ability to use navy charges..
Edit: Also i hope the goons will keep up their griefing ways. That way the rest of us can have a new source of income. Goon farming. |
Circumstantial Evidence
48
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 19:50:00 -
[184] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Cordo Draken wrote:And... Wormholes... Why the hell does a Wormhole care what flag you have to deny you access if you are Criminally flag? I didn't realize that wormholes had intelligence. The wormhole restriction is there because evading CONCORD in high-sec is always an exploit, and so high-sec wormholes have to prevent criminals from using them for this reason. I don't blame the WH for not letting me jump, I blame the black box installed in my ship by CONCORD. They seem to derive immense satisfaction from saying NO. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1973
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 20:12:00 -
[185] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Will devs log in to personally collect bounties on players? Come at me bros! when you die in EVE, it's ALWAYS me who has the final blow true story! (not really) Quoting this before you go back and edit it.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
23
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 20:29:00 -
[186] - Quote
Since I see devs around I would like to say thank you for this great looking changes.
yet I still have 2 questions regarding reactive armor hardener:
- Has the calculation formula been updated as well (recently the module will stop readapting under some specific conditions)
- Is this module now affected by compensation skills (it is hardener after all and hence should give passive resist when not active)
EDIT out ot check on Buckingham to see for myself |
Musiaba Schenoly
FIRST AID SERVICE GROUP
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 22:10:00 -
[187] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: The retract war option is only available if the war is made mutual by the defender. So declaring a war is always going to lock you in that war for 7 days, unless a surrender (or this new mutual/retract) option is used, but that is not a one-sided decision by the aggressor.
IMHO this way will not fix the Dec Shield issue and I guess that it is why you removing this inferno-feature? |
Aethlyn
161
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 22:28:00 -
[188] - Quote
Still open questions regarding loopholes in new bounty system: - Any way to avoid gaming the payout system by forcibly getting damaged (and repaired) before a loss? - Any thoughts on limiting changing implants in space to avoid people ripping them out to lower payouts/sums in kill mails (some care a lot; e.g. when stuck in a bubble)? Regarding offered kill rights: - Have you thought about adding a popup/confirmation, if someone tries to attack a player with open kill rights? Something like "You can't attack this player without ... penalty, but there's an open kill right available for x isk. Do you want to buy it?" If that is declined (or there's no kill right available), you'd get the standard CONCORD warning, etc. (unless dismissed). Looking for more thoughts? Read http://aethlyn.blogspot.com/ or follow me on http://twitter.com/Aethlyn. |
Kern Hotha
22
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 22:48:00 -
[189] - Quote
Will salvage drones unlock stuff in exploration sites? Middle age is when your broad mind and narrow waist begin to change places. -E. Joseph Cossman |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
840
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 23:45:00 -
[190] - Quote
In terms of promoting fun gameplay ASB fix looks the most prominent.
And reading the tears of those who base their PvP ability on something so overwhelmingly OP and suddenly see it getting fixed is simply pleasant.
Sadly, no changes to cynoes makes it impossible to label this expansion as a good one. 14 |
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Riikard Thexder
Cup Of ConKrete
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 23:53:00 -
[191] - Quote
Riikard Thexder wrote:So what is the point of the new bounty system if we still cant kill people with bounty on thier heads. The new bounty system is not going to make bounty hunting a career possibility, People with bounty are still safe to stay in NPC corps and never venture into low/null cant be war dec'd, so the bounty is unclaimable and therefore a waste of isk and time just like in the old system. We should be able to buy kill rights from the bounty office, OR sign up to the bounty off like FW that gives players/corps/allience kill rights over anyone who has a bounty on thier head.
I see everyone saying that they are going to make a Bounty Hunting corp, what are you going to do follow them around and hope someone offers kill rights if they have any? I see that placeing a bounty on a corp works, because you can dec' the corp and recieve bounty during battles, but on an individual bounty basis there are no mechanics that make collecting bounty an option. We need some type of mechanic that allows certain people the ability to attack people with bounty on thier heads.
There have been several suggestions for this but Dev's just seam to over look/ignore them.
Maybe an individual war dec? So a 'Bounty Hunter' can place a war dec or Buy Bounty Kill rights for 7 days at a cost of 20m? or 50m for the month, and since the min bounty pay out is going to be 20m then people with small bounty on thier head will not have to worry so much as a 'bounty hunter' will want to profit from thier kills. this will also stop random placing minimum bounty on some one then buying the kill rights just to be able to have a go at them (tho if you pay for a week like a war dec then it is legit) |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1321
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 00:39:00 -
[192] - Quote
If I understand the kill rights mechanic, making your kill right available to everyone means everyone can buy the kill right at any time. As you pointed out, if the kill right is cheap then people are going to have alts or friends blow up their rookie ships to get rid of the kill right, and if the kill right is expensive there's no too high a chance of it being activated by most people.
However, think about what this does to the bounty hunting profession. Suppose you're looking around for people with kill rights for sale and you want to rack up kills for yourself. Since people with cheap kill rights aren't going to keep them for very long and are most likely to easily discard them, I'm left with kill rights I'll have to pay a fair amount of isk for. Let's say most kill rights that aren't easily discarded run in the 50-100 million isk range.
What incentive do I have to pay for a kill right that once activated, anybody in the vicinity can take advantage of? If I buy a killright I should be paying to have the chance to take someone down myself, not to make it so CONCORD completely ignores aggression from anyone and everyone at that time. This game mechanic makes absolutely no sense. Why should I pay for everyone else to shoot the same target I want to shoot at? Why can't I just pay for myself to shoot at the target?
EVEN IF this kill right was restricted to my corporation or just me, when I activate it that still gives everyone in the vicinity the opportunity to attack. The only thing this really changes is who is forced to pay to activate the kill right, and who gets to decide when and where the engagement is. There's absolutely no control whatsoever on who can get involved. This doesn't make any sense. |
Lord Zim
2053
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 01:05:00 -
[193] - Quote
A proper buff to bountyhunters would not be a ridiculous system where you end up spending your own money to activate the suspect flag so someone else can collect the bounty.
I give up, this is ridiculous. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1322
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 01:24:00 -
[194] - Quote
As much as people whine about blobbing you'd think CCP wouldn't add more mechanics that encourage it... |
Debir Achen
The Red Circle Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 02:24:00 -
[195] - Quote
Might be missing something, but it seems to me that adding a small activation cost to normal ASB operation would be a lot more interesting and effective change than upping the "downtime" cap use. I was under the impression that most "downtime" ASBs were reloading, at which point it doesn't really matter how much cap they are not sucking. In contrast, a small upkeep on normal operation would make them vulnerable to cap warfare - currently there's nothing you can do to stop an ASB ship running the ASB.
Admittedly, you can't neut out a LSE either.
Given Michael's numbers (LASB (150p/100c) 7 charges -> 2700 raw HP / 3003 with heat, LSE II 2625+ (156-p,46c)), it seems to me the real issue is the slot compression gained by the XLASB. LASB will only significantly out-perform an LSE II on a active-rep-bonused ship or in a fight that runs long enough to come back after the recharge cycle.
(LSE II notes: shield recharge contributes a small amount of HP over time, 156 PG is before shield upgrades, which can reduce this by 25% at level 5) Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
1976
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 02:51:00 -
[196] - Quote
I might have missed it, but what about looting the wreck of someone I have/bought kill rights on? Once I kill them does that mean I can loot their wreck without flagging the 'theft' aggression mechanic?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Sturmwolke
298
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 02:53:00 -
[197] - Quote
Microjump drive - "The module is affected by warp scrambling effects, but not warp disruption effects (including bubbles and interdictor effects)". That begs the question, would a Warp Core stab help a micro jump or are they separate?
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Dultas
Angels Of Death EVE
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 04:14:00 -
[198] - Quote
Don't know if this has been asked / answered but with engaging ships in low sec being changed from criminal to suspect will they still get kill rights if they don't engage you? Seems inconsistent that it wouldn't be a criminal action but they still get kill rights. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1325
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 04:16:00 -
[199] - Quote
Dultas wrote:Don't know if this has been asked / answered but with engaging ships in low sec being changed from criminal to suspect will they still get kill rights if they don't engage you? Seems inconsistent that it wouldn't be a criminal action but they still get kill rights. You will only get kill rights in lowsec if you get podded. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
784
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 04:55:00 -
[200] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:Iam Widdershins wrote:...I'm saddened to see you have yet again raised the base cost of declaring war. I strongly believe we need to reduce the minimum cost of war declarations; hisec warfare is such an excellent introductory arena for aspiring PVPers, and the current costs are just so high. The "minimum" cost hasn't changed, its still 50M ISK/week, only the "cost effectiveness" of the war has changed. That said, maybe the "aspiring PvPers" could choose a smaller target, or offer their services in someone else's wardec as an ally which is entirely free? There's also LoSec if they want to PvP (with the updated killrights only on pods there, and new flagging it will hopefully be more active), and bounty hunting in HiSec should become an interesting profession now - there are plenty of places a small corp of inexperienced PvPers can go if they don't want to join an already established group. And of course, who is that short on cash they can't afford the maximum cost of 500M ISK a week between them? If they don't have at least that much, how are they going to replace their ships? Callic Veratar wrote:Why would you send the name of the person placing the bounty? This is something I raised, as its just going to result in more alts, but without it there are less repercussions. i expect to see "bounty alts" to spring up as a mini profession in the near future.
Lowsec is not very young-pilot friendly anymore. FW is a spy-infested blobfest, and piracy is the same as usual: you get overpowered on a gate by a force that has an advantage (rightly so, they put in the effort).
The best way for learning the ropes in PvP is actually highsec wardecs, or nullsec roams. Nullsec roams have nearly completely died off for everyone not in US TZ, due to a combination of reasons. One is the stupid amounts of pilots in this game now, when you do find people they are not scattered in belts like they used to either. You'll rather find stations every other system, jumpbridges, titanbridges, upgraded sovhubs, and literally seconds after you enter a system the "defender" will overpower your single ship by tens or even hundreds of pilots. It's that ridicilous.
As for wardeccing smaller entities: that makes no sense. It should be cheaper the bigger entity you wardec, as it gets more risky. The bigger entities are more appealing targets because of :numbers:, but they also have alot better potential to defend themselves. You should want smaller and younger entities to wardec them, and the professional wardeccers to go for specific targets that require more effort/skill/experience.
I would, however, say that lowsec should be the place to learn the ropes. Both for PvP and PvE. I'd personally love to see players move out there early, like we did. But FW being a carbon copy of nullsec, full of spies and blobs, the new killright system that has alot tougher effects on inexperienced criminals, no real PvE incentitives (remember when mining in lowsec used to be desireable? industrialists and combat pilots co-existed quite well back then), highsec being super-profitable and almost-completely-safe, nullsec being supereasy to defend vs roaming PvPers, WH's being time consuming and taking some time to learn.. the simple truth is that highsec wardecs is the only real entry point for younger aspiring combat pilots. At least if they want to be in a non-laggy blob-environment, that is bound to be spy-infested and be short of properly skilled pilots (so they possibly learn absolutely nothing).
AFK-cloaking in a system near you. |
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 05:40:00 -
[201] - Quote
This new Icon stuff is an awesome idea but, local chat standings and overview already don't load correctly.
Does this means I have to continue spaming immediate standings (seems to solve momentarily the issue until someone else gets in the system)?
I know, logs show nothing but...but...it's not even my fault. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
206
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 07:09:00 -
[202] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello internet spaceships pilots! CCP SoniClover is here to tell you more about even more awesome features that are coming with EVE Online: Retribution on December 4th. In his newest Dev Blog you can hear more about Bounties, Kill Rights, New Modules and War Declaration Mechanics. Read all about it here!
Strange, why do you talk with CCP Guards voice?
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Lord Zim
2054
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 07:13:00 -
[203] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dultas wrote:Don't know if this has been asked / answered but with engaging ships in low sec being changed from criminal to suspect will they still get kill rights if they don't engage you? Seems inconsistent that it wouldn't be a criminal action but they still get kill rights. You will only get kill rights in lowsec if you get podded. or they do anything to your pod in lowsec, including such heinous crimes as pointing it or webbing it. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1325
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 07:15:00 -
[204] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dultas wrote:Don't know if this has been asked / answered but with engaging ships in low sec being changed from criminal to suspect will they still get kill rights if they don't engage you? Seems inconsistent that it wouldn't be a criminal action but they still get kill rights. You will only get kill rights in lowsec if you get podded. or they do anything to your pod in lowsec, including such heinous crimes as pointing it or webbing it. Oh, I see... |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
206
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 08:14:00 -
[205] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Lord Zim wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dultas wrote:Don't know if this has been asked / answered but with engaging ships in low sec being changed from criminal to suspect will they still get kill rights if they don't engage you? Seems inconsistent that it wouldn't be a criminal action but they still get kill rights. You will only get kill rights in lowsec if you get podded. or they do anything to your pod in lowsec, including such heinous crimes as pointing it or webbing it. Oh, I see...
Nevermind. If we pointed someones pod and he lived then he paid a rather large sum in order to be set free and shall have his killright.
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Lord Zim
2055
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 08:17:00 -
[206] - Quote
Except it makes no sense that pointing someone gives them killrights on you, especially if it was done in lowsec, while killing their ship doesn't. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1327
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 08:21:00 -
[207] - Quote
I wonder how many highsec leet pvpers will stalk other players just because they're waiting for someone else to activate killright so they don't have to pay. |
JamesCLK
205
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 08:42:00 -
[208] - Quote
Following that train of thought, instead of being front loaded, shouldn't kill-rights be generated with, well, a kill-mail?
Also, if I understood it right, crime-watch 2.0 has "limited engagements". Why don't kill-rights use that instead?
crimewatch devblog wrote:Limited Engagements
The personal-flags system tidies up a lot of problems with the old system, but still leaves us with a couple of cases that aren't covered. The main one is that a suspect can be freely attacked, but he has no way to defend himself from attack without committing further crimes. We want to ensure that a player always has a right to self-defense, even if he is A Bad Guy. To solve this, we still require a form of A-B flagging. However this will be heavily limited in application, and won't be propagated via assistance chains like the existing aggression flags are. This is where we introduce the concept of a Limited Engagement. An LE is between a pair of characters. (Always characters, not corps, alliances, factions or anything else). An LE gives each party a legal right to attack the other, without triggering any Legal flag. An LE is ACTIVE as long as offensive actions are on-going. Once offensive acts have stopped, it will begin to count down. Resuming hostilities will reset the timer. If the timer expires (probably 15 minutes but still TBC) then the LE is ended. An LE is created when character A attacks character B, and where B is globally-attackable due to being a Suspect, Criminal or Outlaw. This then allows B to defend himself against A. Like Criminal and Suspect flags, An LE is only effective in empire space. Assisting someone who is engaged in an LE will cause the assistor to receive a Suspect flag. This is to prevent neutral logistics interfering in ongoing combat without risk to themselves.
So you would activate a kill-right and get a LE with the target instead of buying everyone in the vicinity a free LE ticket. Arguably, if you buy into the same LE as the guy you want to rep it shouldn't cause a suspect flag if you rep anyone but the target. Your logistics will be at risk, as they are in the LE, but they won't get suspect flagged.
Even better; allow the person issuing the kill-right to decide if buying the kill-right activates a Suspect flag, or if it just gives you a LE (this would have to be displayed ofc). |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1327
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 08:45:00 -
[209] - Quote
No, we can't have that. Your idea is simply inappropriate. It makes too much damn sense. |
Lord Zim
2055
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 08:46:00 -
[210] - Quote
JamesCLK wrote:Following that train of thought, instead of being front loaded, shouldn't kill-rights be generated with, well, a kill-mail? Following that logic crimewatch 2.0 wouldn't be terrible, and bountyhunters would get paid, instead of having to pay someone else to possibly let someone else get the bounty of the kill. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10723
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 10:02:00 -
[211] - Quote
Sorry if this has already been asked.
What happens to existing bounties? Do they remain and just become part of the bounty ISK pool?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Lord Zim
2055
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 10:03:00 -
[212] - Quote
Current bounties go bye-bye. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
894
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 10:06:00 -
[213] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Current bounties go bye-bye. Now there is an effective isk sink :) Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10723
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 10:22:00 -
[214] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Current bounties go bye-bye. Ahh OK, thanks Jim.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3718
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 10:26:00 -
[215] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Current bounties go bye-bye. Ahh OK, thanks Jim.
hurry up, go pod yourself! Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Shederov Blood
Wrecketeers
268
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 10:40:00 -
[216] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:go pod yourself!
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JamesCLK
207
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 11:20:00 -
[217] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:hurry up, go pod yourself! Preferably with an alt. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
254
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 11:20:00 -
[218] - Quote
people paid isk for those bounties - I'd be mad if I put a billion on someones head and it dissapeared...
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1329
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 11:22:00 -
[219] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:people paid isk for those bounties - I'd be mad if I put a billion on someones head and it dissapeared...
They shouldn't have, because the bounty system was totally broken and all that isk was wasted anyway. |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 12:11:00 -
[220] - Quote
Does heavy interdictors interrupt (and make impossible to use) micro jump drive with focused warp script? Is it work as intended? |
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1330
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 12:13:00 -
[221] - Quote
Captain Semper wrote:Does heavy interdictors interrupt (and make impossible to use) micro jump drive with focused warp script? Is it work as intended? Last I tested this (a week ago, roughly) they did. |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 12:17:00 -
[222] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Last I tested this (a week ago, roughly) they did.
So is it work as intended or its bug? Becuase "only scrambl" as i remember... Srambl turn off mwd and i thought mjd will have same mechanic. Focused warp script doesnt turn off mwd... So, it ok and a final version? |
Iris Bravemount
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
172
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 12:33:00 -
[223] - Quote
Disclaimer: Didn't read through it all.
Did I get it right that only the pilot who gets the fatal blow gets the bounty (or the highest dps in case of concord or self-destruct)? Why isn't it shared like FW LP? Why active tank bonuses are bad for you |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3721
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 12:54:00 -
[224] - Quote
Iris Bravemount wrote:Disclaimer: Didn't read through it all.
Did I get it right that only the pilot who gets the fatal blow gets the bounty (or the highest dps in case of concord or self-destruct)? Why isn't it shared like FW LP?
it's shared if you're in fleet and someone in your fleet gets final blow Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
222
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 12:55:00 -
[225] - Quote
Make it so that if concord get the kill, no bounty is claimed.
Without this change, high sec pirates will be able to effectively negate any bounties by a group claiming each others bounties during a suicide gank. |
Dieter Rams
The Nommo
26
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 14:32:00 -
[226] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote: We've looked at the eject-timer concerns when they were raised, but that change is currently still going ahead.
Great, flying Tech 3 just got a lot more painful; if you're losing you're now guaranteed to take a SP hit. |
Little Zergling
Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 15:35:00 -
[227] - Quote
Quote:On activation, the shipGÇÖs sig radius is increased 150%.
Is that increased BY 150%, i.e sig + sig + 1/2sig => factor of 2.5 or increased TO 150%, i.e sig + 1/2sig => factor of 1.5 |
JamesCLK
209
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 16:37:00 -
[228] - Quote
Little Zergling wrote:Is that increased BY 150%, i.e sig + sig + 1/2sig => factor of 2.5 or increased TO 150%, i.e sig + 1/2sig => factor of 1.5 Took the liberty of testing this. It is increased by 150%. So, a 2.5x multiplier. However, this is subject to stacking reductions it seems.
Data on a bare Tempest hull: Sig . . . MJD . . . MWD 340. . . No . . . . .No 850. . . Yes . . . .No 2040. . No . . . . Yes 4699. . Yes . . . .Yes
4699 is only ~2.3x 2040.
Another interesting tidbit about the MJD is that it only shoots you forward by 100km from the location in space where you activated the module. Not where you are when the cycle ends. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
373
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 16:40:00 -
[229] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon?
Asking again. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
261
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 17:37:00 -
[230] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Michael Harari wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon? Asking again.
The MJD basically has the same limitations as a MWD, so this scenario is possibly, if you're well aligned. |
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Lord Zim
2056
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 17:39:00 -
[231] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Iris Bravemount wrote:Disclaimer: Didn't read through it all.
Did I get it right that only the pilot who gets the fatal blow gets the bounty (or the highest dps in case of concord or self-destruct)? Why isn't it shared like FW LP? it's shared if you're in fleet and someone in your fleet gets final blow What happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if any)? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
163
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 20:54:00 -
[232] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Also it applies more to low sec where concord is not there to bail you out. Did you guys test to see?? pods cant shoot back anyway. You should really read dev blogs in order before you post in anger #alektookcareofit So asking a question is considered posting in anger? I have read that dev blog a few times before and my question I asked above was very specific. I thought the entire point of threads like these is so us, the players, can ask questions and provide feed back. If it was tested and confirmed to still grant the kill right then all you had to say was, "Yes, we tested it and made sure the kill right would not be voided by defending yourself." Christ...
Try shutting your yap for 5 minutes... your tone and pit-bull style would wear out a saint. "If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Lord Zim
2056
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 21:23:00 -
[233] - Quote
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Also it applies more to low sec where concord is not there to bail you out. Did you guys test to see?? pods cant shoot back anyway. You should really read dev blogs in order before you post in anger #alektookcareofit So asking a question is considered posting in anger? I have read that dev blog a few times before and my question I asked above was very specific. I thought the entire point of threads like these is so us, the players, can ask questions and provide feed back. If it was tested and confirmed to still grant the kill right then all you had to say was, "Yes, we tested it and made sure the kill right would not be voided by defending yourself." Christ... Try shutting your yap for 5 minutes... your tone and pit-bull style would wear out a saint. The correct way of answering him would've been "yes, since killrights are frontloaded, defending yourself shouldn't void anything, since once he attacks you he becomes a legal target. and, this goes for such heinous things like neuting a pod in lowsec, while killing his ship is all fun and games.
yes, the new system makes so much sense, and is certainly not setup to just remove pvp from hisec at all, no sirree." Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 04:13:00 -
[234] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Dieter Rams wrote:Cordo Draken wrote:Ok, I was just reminded and yet didn't see any further iteration on the topic of NOT being able to Eject with a Weapons flag? Is that staying as is? All because of the T3s? So someone going down in flames can't pre-explosion-eject to save their pod, or try to remember to stop firing 60 seconds before they pop (as if we really want to stop fighting). The option to eject should always be up to the pilot. With the concern to T3's just write it so if their T3 ship (that still has them with Ownership) pops after they eject, they still get the skill loss hit. Is this too difficult to do?
And... Wormholes... Why the hell does a Wormhole care what flag you have to deny you access if you are Criminally flag? I didn't realize that wormholes had intelligence.
Anything on this kind of stuff for the new Aggro mechanics?
A lot of it is good, but some stuff just doesn't make any logical sense. Can we please have an update on this? Like players weren't risk averse enough already... We've looked at the eject-timer concerns when they were raised, but that change is currently still going ahead. The wormhole restriction is there because evading CONCORD in high-sec is always an exploit, and so high-sec wormholes have to prevent criminals from using them for this reason.
Going on ahead... Like a Bull in a China shop. Ok, but, are you guys going to fix the issue? It WILL be an issue... or do you guys just not care about it? Seriously... this was pointed out Months ago.
*Sigh* Wormholes that can intelligently choose not to let certain people through... Well, I see your point, but I would still argue that a Concord ship should be the result of being stopped (giving a slim chance of escaping) vs an impossible logic. This also applies to a Criminal just suddenly not being able to move or do anything as if his/her own ship caused a mutiny. Again, I'd rather see Concord doing this vs a "Magically Force" preventing any movement. I just prefer things to make sense, then get an answer of "Because we said so." eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1335
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 05:13:00 -
[235] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:If I understand the kill rights mechanic, making your kill right available to everyone means everyone can buy the kill right at any time. As you pointed out, if the kill right is cheap then people are going to have alts or friends blow up their rookie ships to get rid of the kill right, and if the kill right is expensive there's no too high a chance of it being activated by most people.
However, think about what this does to the bounty hunting profession. Suppose you're looking around for people with kill rights for sale and you want to rack up kills for yourself. Since people with cheap kill rights aren't going to keep them for very long and are most likely to easily discard them, I'm left with kill rights I'll have to pay a fair amount of isk for. Let's say most kill rights that aren't easily discarded run in the 50-100 million isk range.
What incentive do I have to pay for a kill right that once activated, anybody in the vicinity can take advantage of? If I buy a killright I should be paying to have the chance to take someone down myself, not to make it so CONCORD completely ignores aggression from anyone and everyone at that time. This game mechanic makes absolutely no sense. Why should I pay for everyone else to shoot the same target I want to shoot at? Why can't I just pay for myself to shoot at the target?
EVEN IF this kill right was restricted to my corporation or just me, when I activate it that still gives everyone in the vicinity the opportunity to attack. The only thing this really changes is who is forced to pay to activate the kill right, and who gets to decide when and where the engagement is. There's absolutely no control whatsoever on who can get involved. This doesn't make any sense. Still waiting for comment on this. |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
283
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 12:21:00 -
[236] - Quote
All looks generally really good. Nice work.
Although i'd like to add i really don't like how everyone can shoot a target i just purchased killrights for... If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if i'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
mkint
921
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 15:15:00 -
[237] - Quote
Nice to see the feedback from the first version of this blog being ignored. So much more feel-goods for the devs since most people aren't going to bother pointing out the same broken crap in more than one thread. Looks like devs really do prefer post patch fallout more than pre patch feedback. 'La la la I can't hear you. Nor would I care if I could. ' Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
423
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 21:50:00 -
[238] - Quote
I must admit, I like what you've done with War. That change to the Agressor being able to retract a war was excellent, and the new cost calculations and removal of War multipliers should be good too.
+1
Meta Drone damage amps is nice too. Should help make the Drones more effective for some fits. Also: More fits. Be nice to see people rethinking strategies and fitting with all the new changes. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
423
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 21:52:00 -
[239] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Michael Harari wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon? Asking again. The MJD basically has the same limitations as a MWD, so this scenario is possibly, if you're well aligned.
Smartbombing Interceptors the entertaining way. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Elinea Marcutz
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 21:57:00 -
[240] - Quote
Riikard Thexder wrote:[quote=Riikard Thexder]So what is the point of the new bounty system if we still cant kill people with bounty on thier heads. The new bounty system is not going to make bounty hunting a career possibility, People with bounty are still safe to stay in NPC corps and never venture into low/null cant be war dec'd, so the bounty is unclaimable and therefore a waste of isk and time just like in the old system. We should be able to buy kill rights from the bounty office, OR sign up to the bounty off like FW that gives players/corps/allience kill rights over anyone who has a bounty on thier head.
in highsec the main plan that has been discussed by my group at this point is to offer a standard low rate on all kill rights in highsec and only pursue those with bounties. Other options that have been discussed are baiting for kill rights and wardec-ing. It will depends on the habits of the target how we actually go about taking them down of course.
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Mika Takahoshi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 06:06:00 -
[241] - Quote
Cordo Draken wrote:*Sigh* Wormholes that can intelligently choose not to let certain people through... Well, I see your point, but I would still argue that a Concord ship should be the result of being stopped (giving a slim chance of escaping) vs an impossible logic. This also applies to a Criminal just suddenly not being able to move or do anything as if his/her own ship caused a mutiny. Again, I'd rather see Concord doing this vs a "Magically Force" preventing any movement. I just prefer things to make sense, then get an answer of "Because we said so." Repeat to yourself, "It's just a game; I should really just relax."
A good lore handwave is always nice, but a gameplay mechanic for gameplay reasons is always vastly more important, and if you argue against the mechanic for lore reasons, you've lost perspective. Repeat the mantra...
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1340
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 06:26:00 -
[242] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:If I understand the kill rights mechanic, making your kill right available to everyone means everyone can buy the kill right at any time. As you pointed out, if the kill right is cheap then people are going to have alts or friends blow up their rookie ships to get rid of the kill right, and if the kill right is expensive there's no too high a chance of it being activated by most people.
However, think about what this does to the bounty hunting profession. Suppose you're looking around for people with kill rights for sale and you want to rack up kills for yourself. Since people with cheap kill rights aren't going to keep them for very long and are most likely to easily discard them, I'm left with kill rights I'll have to pay a fair amount of isk for. Let's say most kill rights that aren't easily discarded run in the 50-100 million isk range.
What incentive do I have to pay for a kill right that once activated, anybody in the vicinity can take advantage of? If I buy a killright I should be paying to have the chance to take someone down myself, not to make it so CONCORD completely ignores aggression from anyone and everyone at that time. This game mechanic makes absolutely no sense. Why should I pay for everyone else to shoot the same target I want to shoot at? Why can't I just pay for myself to shoot at the target?
EVEN IF this kill right was restricted to my corporation or just me, when I activate it that still gives everyone in the vicinity the opportunity to attack. The only thing this really changes is who is forced to pay to activate the kill right, and who gets to decide when and where the engagement is. There's absolutely no control whatsoever on who can get involved. This doesn't make any sense. Still waiting for comment on this.
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Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
84
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 09:41:00 -
[243] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Michael Harari wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon? Asking again. The MJD basically has the same limitations as a MWD, so this scenario is possibly, if you're well aligned.
But its not similar to a mwd in respect that it doesnt accelerate you 100kmto away very fast. You dont even enter/drop out of warp.... you just blink over, and that should work just the same as jumping to a cyno. Will a targeted heavy interdictor warp disruption generators prevent its activation, or only bubbles? |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
350
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 11:47:00 -
[244] - Quote
Niko Lorenzio wrote: But its not similar to a mwd in respect that it doesnt accelerate you 100kmto away very fast. You dont even enter/drop out of warp.... you just blink over, and that should work just the same as jumping to a cyno. Will a targeted heavy interdictor warp disruption generators prevent its activation, or only bubbles?
The problem with having it work like a real jump drive is that it would make it underpowered and quite worthless tbh. I'm up for some experimenting with this module and if it turns out overpowered they can just nerf it down the line. Remember that battleships really have lost a lot of their power lately, they need something to give them new things to do. |
JamesCLK
213
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 14:51:00 -
[245] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. I certainly hope that by fix you mean: "The MJD will uncloak you upon jumping (end of the cycle)" and not: "You cannot cloak while spooling up the MJD" |
Foo-foo Freak
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 20:10:00 -
[246] - Quote
And the battle Noctis was born. |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 23:06:00 -
[247] - Quote
Mika Takahoshi wrote:Cordo Draken wrote:*Sigh* Wormholes that can intelligently choose not to let certain people through... Well, I see your point, but I would still argue that a Concord ship should be the result of being stopped (giving a slim chance of escaping) vs an impossible logic. This also applies to a Criminal just suddenly not being able to move or do anything as if his/her own ship caused a mutiny. Again, I'd rather see Concord doing this vs a "Magically Force" preventing any movement. I just prefer things to make sense, then get an answer of "Because we said so." Repeat to yourself, "It's just a game; I should really just relax." A good lore handwave is always nice, but a gameplay mechanic for gameplay reasons is always vastly more important, and if you argue against the mechanic for lore reasons, you've lost perspective. Repeat the mantra...
Nothing is ever wrong with things making sense, even in a Sci-fi genre... otherwise the 1930 series of Flash Gordon would still be "Awesome" to this day. Get a grip, this is a discussion for feedback, hence the feedback and my personal opinion on it. Why don't you try to contribute rather than troll... eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Silent Infinity
50
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 10:36:00 -
[248] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Moonaura wrote:Please change the colour from Orange for a Bounty Target. Currently in Faction Warfare, enemies are already orange. Pink is good this time of year I hear? But seriously, there are like other colours available ;) Bounty guy has black background (pilots with available kill rights have orange), I agree, pink would be much MUCH MUCH better but the art director (CCP Huskarl) doesn't like pink in EVE.. do you think I should maybe take it personally? Buuuuut do you know that you can change all the color tags to your liking by opening the overview settings, go to appearance, colortag and right click on the entry you want to change the color of and pick a color you like
Could you consider please having a different notification for standings and any other things? Sharing the same way/location to indicate that a toon has some standing and/or secstatus anything is very suboptimal. Like in most cases we want to know _both_ if a toon has a red standing AND GCC/<-5 standing. On grid, in overview, and in the local listing. This would be a very valuable and useful feature for most of the players i think. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
261
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 11:55:00 -
[249] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:If I understand the kill rights mechanic, making your kill right available to everyone means everyone can buy the kill right at any time. As you pointed out, if the kill right is cheap then people are going to have alts or friends blow up their rookie ships to get rid of the kill right, and if the kill right is expensive there's no too high a chance of it being activated by most people.
However, think about what this does to the bounty hunting profession. Suppose you're looking around for people with kill rights for sale and you want to rack up kills for yourself. Since people with cheap kill rights aren't going to keep them for very long and are most likely to easily discard them, I'm left with kill rights I'll have to pay a fair amount of isk for. Let's say most kill rights that aren't easily discarded run in the 50-100 million isk range.
What incentive do I have to pay for a kill right that once activated, anybody in the vicinity can take advantage of? If I buy a killright I should be paying to have the chance to take someone down myself, not to make it so CONCORD completely ignores aggression from anyone and everyone at that time. This game mechanic makes absolutely no sense. Why should I pay for everyone else to shoot the same target I want to shoot at? Why can't I just pay for myself to shoot at the target?
EVEN IF this kill right was restricted to my corporation or just me, when I activate it that still gives everyone in the vicinity the opportunity to attack. The only thing this really changes is who is forced to pay to activate the kill right, and who gets to decide when and where the engagement is. There's absolutely no control whatsoever on who can get involved. This doesn't make any sense. Still waiting for comment on this.
People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.
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Lord Zim
2056
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 12:01:00 -
[250] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.
So, what happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if there is any)? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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Amarrius Ibn Pontificus
Evil .inc WHY so Seri0Us
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 12:01:00 -
[251] - Quote
This:
Quote: 'The aggressor now has the option to retract a war that has been made mutual by the defender. This ends the war in 24 hours. '
Att he very least the defender should have the option of having the war cost shifted onto him and have some sort of role reversal of aggressor and defender without any cool down or ceasse fire period. |
Musiaba Schenoly
FIRST AID SERVICE GROUP
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 13:53:00 -
[252] - Quote
Amarrius Ibn Pontificus wrote:This: Quote: 'The aggressor now has the option to retract a war that has been made mutual by the defender. This ends the war in 24 hours. '
At the very least the defender should have the option of having the war cost shifted onto him and have some sort of role reversal between aggressor and defender without any cool down or ceasse fire period.
YES particulary because of
THIS
The Zerg Overmind wrote:Yes, with the current wording I do believe that I will still be able to keep everyone trapped. Using a method I publcly outlined for them almost 2 weeks ago.... I'm surprised they only plan to let mutual wars get retracted... because in my mind that says "The aggressors is trapped, until the defender wants to trap them, then they go free".
IMHO too: It's an hot-fix that WILL NOT work as intended!
EVERYBODY will be surprised like ZO, I guess, about the removal of an inferno-feature (serious mutual wd) because of an issue (details https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157449) that will not be fixed with this removal (in the dev blog now defined way and quoted above). |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
261
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 14:37:00 -
[253] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.
So, what happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if there is any)?
The one who gets the final blow gets the bounty (and shares it with anyone in his fleet, if any). A wreck of a suspect is open to loot by anyone (so anyone of the 20 players in your example could loot legally). |
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Lord Zim
2057
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 16:17:00 -
[254] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Lord Zim wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.
So, what happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if there is any)? The one who gets the final blow gets the bounty (and shares it with anyone in his fleet, if any). A wreck of a suspect is open to loot by anyone (so anyone of the 20 players in your example could loot legally). So in other words, we have a few different ways this can all go down.
1) the guy who is awarded the killright spends the next 30 days dogging the guy who killed him, until he's in a sufficiently expensive ship to be killed in, and activates it on a gate and watch everyone else try to tear him to bits 2) someone or some corp is awarded the killright from someone who has been ganked (or attempted ganked, or had his pod pointed or webbed in lowsec ), and does the same thing as in 1) 3) Same as 2), except they follow him around until he's in an expensive ship and away from anyone else (this'll never happen, but let's play along here) 4) someone pays the ridiculously high price needed to avoid the guy just ganking himself with an alt to get rid of the public killright, and someone else gets the killing blow and loots the loot from under his nose.
Instead of the owner of the killright being able to assign the killright to one or more person, corp or alliance at a time, the first person, corp or alliance to kill him gets the specific bounty the owner of the killright put on completion of the killright, and thus actually properly facilitate actual bountyhunters/bountyhunter corps/alliances. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
303
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 17:37:00 -
[255] - Quote
Salvage drones and a noctis drone bay? And I didn't have to blow anyone for it?
INTERNET HIGH FIVE! |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2767
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 17:54:00 -
[256] - Quote
Imawuss wrote:Why not tie the bounty system and the kill right system?
So in addition to the current changes: A person could sell a kill right to an actually bounty hunter who then can hunt the target. Upon kill the bounty hunter would then get 100% of only the bounty that the player who sold the kill right put on him. plus he then would get all the rest of the normal bounty payout if more people had bounties on the target.
This basically acts as a contract, sell kill right for 25m but put a 50 mil bounty on target. When target is killed you also receive a killmail so you know the details of the kill and if you want to use that bounty hunter again. Seems fair and easy, It would not detract from the current system and just adds a little more flavor. Interesting, I'm not sure if that could be exploited or not. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2767
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 18:16:00 -
[257] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon?
If your opponents are too stupid to have at least one scram handy, they deserve to be humiliated. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2767
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 19:11:00 -
[258] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Lord Zim wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.
So, what happens if I pay, say, 100m to activate someone's killright, 20 others join in and shoot at him, and someone in that group gets the final shot, who gets to loot and who gets the bounty (if there is any)? The one who gets the final blow gets the bounty (and shares it with anyone in his fleet, if any). A wreck of a suspect is open to loot by anyone (so anyone of the 20 players in your example could loot legally). So in other words, we have a few different ways this can all go down. 1) the guy who is awarded the killright spends the next 30 days dogging the guy who killed him, until he's in a sufficiently expensive ship to be killed in, and activates it on a gate and watch everyone else try to tear him to bits 2) someone or some corp is awarded the killright from someone who has been ganked (or attempted ganked, or had his pod pointed or webbed in lowsec ), and does the same thing as in 1) 3) Same as 2), except they follow him around until he's in an expensive ship and away from anyone else (this'll never happen, but let's play along here) 4) someone pays the ridiculously high price needed to avoid the guy just ganking himself with an alt to get rid of the public killright, and someone else gets the killing blow and loots the loot from under his nose. Instead of the owner of the killright being able to assign the killright to one or more person, corp or alliance at a time, the first person, corp or alliance to kill him gets the specific bounty the owner of the killright put on completion of the killright, and thus actually properly facilitate actual bountyhunters/bountyhunter corps/alliances.
Well, when you activate a kill right you will probably want to do it when the odds of having someone horn in on your kill are minimal. In other words, don't activate it on the Jita undock. Instead follow him a jump or two first.
Also, this enters into the picture as well:
Quote:WeGÇÖve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish.
Although this looks like it only restricts who can activate the kill right, and does not affect who can shoot at him once the kill right is activated. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Lord Zim
2058
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 19:28:00 -
[259] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Well, when you activate a kill right you will probably want to do it when the odds of having someone horn in on your kill are minimal. In other words, don't activate it on the Jita undock. Instead follow him a jump or two first. Yes, but what do you realistically think is going to be the chance of ever seeing someone with a killright on them at any other point than a gate? It'll either all be disposable alts which you won't see anywhere else, or it'll be idiots who for some reason turned off the protect-the-idiot switch.
Ranger 1 wrote:Also, this enters into the picture as well: Quote:WeGÇÖve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish. Although this looks like it only restricts who can activate the kill right, and does not affect who can shoot at him once the kill right is activated. Yes. So a singular person, a whole corp or a whole alliance can activate it so everyone on the gate can shoot him.
Very productive for bountyhunters. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Lyric Lahnder
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
118
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 20:16:00 -
[260] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Also it applies more to low sec where concord is not there to bail you out. Did you guys test to see?? pods cant shoot back anyway. You should really read dev blogs in order before you post in anger #alektookcareofit So asking a question is considered posting in anger? I have read that dev blog a few times before and my question I asked above was very specific. I thought the entire point of threads like these is so us, the players, can ask questions and provide feed back. If it was tested and confirmed to still grant the kill right then all you had to say was, "Yes, we tested it and made sure the kill right would not be voided by defending yourself." Christ... Try shutting your yap for 5 minutes... your tone and pit-bull style would wear out a saint. The correct way of answering him would've been "yes, since killrights are frontloaded, defending yourself shouldn't void anything, since once he attacks you he becomes a legal target. and, this goes for such heinous things like neuting a pod in lowsec, while killing his ship is all fun and games. yes, the new system makes so much sense, and is certainly not setup to just remove pvp from hisec at all, no sirree."
Zim Could you clarify on how this will remove all pvp from highsec? I thought the changes mentioned would encourage pvp in highsec. If these changes do the opposite I'd like to hear why in greater detail. Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.comI Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers. |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2767
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 20:16:00 -
[261] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Well, when you activate a kill right you will probably want to do it when the odds of having someone horn in on your kill are minimal. In other words, don't activate it on the Jita undock. Instead follow him a jump or two first. Yes, but what do you realistically think is going to be the chance of ever seeing someone with a killright on them at any other point than a gate? It'll either all be disposable alts which you won't see anywhere else, or it'll be idiots who for some reason turned off the protect-the-idiot switch. Ranger 1 wrote:Also, this enters into the picture as well: Quote:WeGÇÖve added an option for people to limit who the kill right is available to. Now when you make a kill right available, you can choose to restrict access the kill right to a specific corporation, alliance or even character. You can still make it open to anyone if you wish. Although this looks like it only restricts who can activate the kill right, and does not affect who can shoot at him once the kill right is activated. Yes. So a singular person, a whole corp or a whole alliance can activate it so everyone on the gate can shoot him. Very productive for bountyhunters. I get your point. A large percentage of people that earn kill rights against them will be single purpose alts or low sec gate campers that go on the occasional high speed errand into high sec (and are very unlikely to get snagged).
Kill rights on their own will not revolutionize bounty hunting, although I think more people will screw up and get themselves popped than would appear evident at first blush. I can see a few of the better organized high sec groups getting the occasional kill in fast locking Tier 3 BC's against those attempting to suicide gank miners in belts or on gates going after freighters (in those situations where they need multiple volleys' to bring down their target before Concord takes them all down). Frankly, with kill rights being front loaded, I think we'll also see more people forgetting they have kill rights on them than we currently do.
But yes I think bounties will be a bigger boon to bounty hunters than kill rights are as many of those wearing the bounty will not necessarily be used to having to be careful... and a person with both a bounty AND a kill right against them had better not plan on doing anything in high sec that requires them to pause anywhere for any length ot fime.
Still, most of those claims will be targets of opportunity rather than something you can easily make a profession out of. The ability to put a bounty on a whole corp or alliance might be the saving grace in this system, as then there would be incentive for a bounty hunting corp to declare war to facilitated taking the bounties (assuming the bounty is high enough to cover the cost of the war dec and still provide a possibility for profit).
I kind of okay with seeing what the player base can figure out on this one for awhile, as long as further mechanics can be added (or current ones tweaked) to ensure the bounty hunter profession becomes truly viable. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1419
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 21:08:00 -
[262] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:If I understand the kill rights mechanic, making your kill right available to everyone means everyone can buy the kill right at any time. As you pointed out, if the kill right is cheap then people are going to have alts or friends blow up their rookie ships to get rid of the kill right, and if the kill right is expensive there's no too high a chance of it being activated by most people.
However, think about what this does to the bounty hunting profession. Suppose you're looking around for people with kill rights for sale and you want to rack up kills for yourself. Since people with cheap kill rights aren't going to keep them for very long and are most likely to easily discard them, I'm left with kill rights I'll have to pay a fair amount of isk for. Let's say most kill rights that aren't easily discarded run in the 50-100 million isk range.
What incentive do I have to pay for a kill right that once activated, anybody in the vicinity can take advantage of? If I buy a killright I should be paying to have the chance to take someone down myself, not to make it so CONCORD completely ignores aggression from anyone and everyone at that time. This game mechanic makes absolutely no sense. Why should I pay for everyone else to shoot the same target I want to shoot at? Why can't I just pay for myself to shoot at the target?
EVEN IF this kill right was restricted to my corporation or just me, when I activate it that still gives everyone in the vicinity the opportunity to attack. The only thing this really changes is who is forced to pay to activate the kill right, and who gets to decide when and where the engagement is. There's absolutely no control whatsoever on who can get involved. This doesn't make any sense. Still waiting for comment on this. People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design. I would imagine that NOT allowing everyone in the area to attack the target (simply giving them a suspect flag, amiright?) would create a huge, tangled web of aggression dependencies, and that was a factor in the decision to do it this way.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2767
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 22:31:00 -
[263] - Quote
Gogela wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:If I understand the kill rights mechanic, making your kill right available to everyone means everyone can buy the kill right at any time. As you pointed out, if the kill right is cheap then people are going to have alts or friends blow up their rookie ships to get rid of the kill right, and if the kill right is expensive there's no too high a chance of it being activated by most people.
However, think about what this does to the bounty hunting profession. Suppose you're looking around for people with kill rights for sale and you want to rack up kills for yourself. Since people with cheap kill rights aren't going to keep them for very long and are most likely to easily discard them, I'm left with kill rights I'll have to pay a fair amount of isk for. Let's say most kill rights that aren't easily discarded run in the 50-100 million isk range.
What incentive do I have to pay for a kill right that once activated, anybody in the vicinity can take advantage of? If I buy a killright I should be paying to have the chance to take someone down myself, not to make it so CONCORD completely ignores aggression from anyone and everyone at that time. This game mechanic makes absolutely no sense. Why should I pay for everyone else to shoot the same target I want to shoot at? Why can't I just pay for myself to shoot at the target?
EVEN IF this kill right was restricted to my corporation or just me, when I activate it that still gives everyone in the vicinity the opportunity to attack. The only thing this really changes is who is forced to pay to activate the kill right, and who gets to decide when and where the engagement is. There's absolutely no control whatsoever on who can get involved. This doesn't make any sense. Still waiting for comment on this. People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design. I would imagine that NOT allowing everyone in the area to attack the target (simply giving them a suspect flag, amiright?) would create a huge, tangled web of aggression dependencies, and that was a factor in the decision to do it this way.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that this particular aspect of the system isn't going to end up being changed for that very reason. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 22:46:00 -
[264] - Quote
CCP Sonic Lover, thankyou. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
277
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 22:50:00 -
[265] - Quote
So if I get that right then CCP sees no problems in dual medium ASB frigates, at all. It's entirely on par and not at all overpowered when compared to, say, an armour tanked frigate.
Right. Amat victoria curam. |
Lord Zim
2058
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 22:53:00 -
[266] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Gogela wrote:I would imagine that NOT allowing everyone in the area to attack the target (simply giving them a suspect flag, amiright?) would create a huge, tangled web of aggression dependencies, and that was a factor in the decision to do it this way. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that this particular aspect of the system isn't going to end up being changed for that very reason. Pretty certain the only reason this would be changed in any way, shape or form, is if it proves to be not enough to stop freighters from being ganked. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1344
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 00:24:00 -
[267] - Quote
Gogela wrote:I would imagine that NOT allowing everyone in the area to attack the target (simply giving them a suspect flag, amiright?) would create a huge, tangled web of aggression dependencies, and that was a factor in the decision to do it this way. That's a cop-out and you know it. Seems to me giving the person or corp who activated the killright a limited engagement flag wouldn't constitute a "huge, tangled web of dependencies". |
NextDarkKnight
Fury Lords Intergalactic Brotherhood
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 02:11:00 -
[268] - Quote
Aethlyn wrote:Don't think this has been asked here so far: Are there any plans for adjusting access to implants in space? E.g. to avoid people ripping out implants when they know they can't get away to avoid them showing up on kill mails (and to reduce bounty payouts)?
While engaged in combat with the agression timer .. CCP could make a message like
"Adrenaline is preventing you from removing your implants.. chill awhile and try again".
That way we can still manage in space and you can get your high end kill mails. |
catallin
Bite Me inc
9
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 10:05:00 -
[269] - Quote
Quote:For the Micro Jump Drive, we will start by just doing a large version of this module (Large Micro Jump Drive)
Large Micro... I see what you did there.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2767
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 15:52:00 -
[270] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Gogela wrote:I would imagine that NOT allowing everyone in the area to attack the target (simply giving them a suspect flag, amiright?) would create a huge, tangled web of aggression dependencies, and that was a factor in the decision to do it this way. That's a cop-out and you know it. Seems to me giving the person or corp who activated the killright a limited engagement flag wouldn't constitute a "huge, tangled web of dependencies". Not to be argumentative, but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what would occur, just as it does under the current system. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1349
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 15:57:00 -
[271] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Gogela wrote:I would imagine that NOT allowing everyone in the area to attack the target (simply giving them a suspect flag, amiright?) would create a huge, tangled web of aggression dependencies, and that was a factor in the decision to do it this way. That's a cop-out and you know it. Seems to me giving the person or corp who activated the killright a limited engagement flag wouldn't constitute a "huge, tangled web of dependencies". Not to be argumentative, but I'm pretty sure that is exactly what would occur, just as it does under the current system. Do you have any evidence for this statement, or is it just speculation since you're not a CCP developer and don't have any access to the underlying code? |
Lord Azori
Team Pizza No Holes Barred
18
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 18:26:00 -
[272] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Quote:Salvage drones never loot, they only salvage. Also, there is no difference in the quality of the loot received GÇô salvage drones can salvage the same items as the salvage modules, the only difference being that because of lower chance they are much worse at salvaging difficult wrecks (and are incapable of salvaging the most difficult Sleeper wrecks). Me: yay, awesome new item that will be extremely useful in WHs, thanks guys! CCP: oh i'm sorry, it doesnt work in WHs. great.
I am with ya Jack. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
240
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 21:26:00 -
[273] - Quote
Gogela wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote: People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.
I would imagine that NOT allowing everyone in the area to attack the target (simply giving them a suspect flag, amiright?) would create a huge, tangled web of aggression dependencies, and that was a factor in the decision to do it this way.
also if you're the one activating the kill right, you're the one with the advantage of surprise so you're more likely to get the kill / have more time to deal damage etc.... to get the bounty. plus it helps lone mercs/bounty hunters as passing players can get involved and add to the downfall of the target.
at least as far as i can understand the system anyway. |
Lord Zim
2069
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 21:37:00 -
[274] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Gogela wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote: People have to be careful when activating a kill right about time and place. This is by design.
I would imagine that NOT allowing everyone in the area to attack the target (simply giving them a suspect flag, amiright?) would create a huge, tangled web of aggression dependencies, and that was a factor in the decision to do it this way. also if you're the one activating the kill right, you're the one with the advantage of surprise so you're more likely to get the kill / have more time to deal damage etc.... to get the bounty. plus it helps lone mercs/bounty hunters as passing players can get involved and add to the downfall of the target. at least as far as i can understand the system anyway. It's still not a system which is "a boon for bountyhunters".
I mean, come on, it's a system where someone pays to let everyone else shoot at someone, and the only benefit to being the one to activate the killright is a few seconds headstart, with no guarantee of being the one imparting the killing blow, so no guarantee you'd get the bounty, and everyone can run off with the loot so you don't even know if you can get that. How can anyone even possibly try to fob this off as "a boon for bountyhunters"?
It's a joke compared to what it should've been to be "a boon to bountyhunters", is what it is. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1352
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:39:00 -
[275] - Quote
"We're not going to bother explaining why we did it this way even though we've been asked multiple times by multiple people. We're just going to ask you to trust us even though we've often demonstrated in the past that we screw new features up in ways players predict prior to launch." |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:40:00 -
[276] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:[It's a joke compared to what it should've been to be "a boon to bountyhunters", is what it is. Speaking of which, what the **** is up with "activating" a killright that you own (whether it was yours or assigned to yourself/organization)? I can understand having to activate public killrights, but it's downright ******** having to make an extra click and confirm for personal killrights. Treat them like a mini-wardec, or something else instead. |
Lord Zim
2070
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 22:45:00 -
[277] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Lord Zim wrote:It's a joke compared to what it should've been to be "a boon to bountyhunters", is what it is. Speaking of which, what the **** is up with "activating" a killright that you own (whether it was yours or assigned to yourself/organization)? I can understand having to activate public killrights, but it's downright ******** having to make an extra click and confirm for personal killrights. Treat them like a mini-wardec, or something else instead. It's most likely so someone who has gotten shot at, webbed, pointed or had any other such killright-generating actions applied to them can stalk the guy and randomly activate the killright and hope all the other vigilantes on the gates will take the opportunity to kill him for you.
Remember the stereotypical little geek hiding behind the schoolyard bully, popping his head out from behind him, shaking his fist and going "yeah!"?
Yeah, the guy with the killright is going to end up being that guy. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
121
|
Posted - 2012.11.27 23:16:00 -
[278] - Quote
Mika Takahoshi wrote:Cordo Draken wrote:*Sigh* Wormholes that can intelligently choose not to let certain people through... Well, I see your point, but I would still argue that a Concord ship should be the result of being stopped (giving a slim chance of escaping) vs an impossible logic. This also applies to a Criminal just suddenly not being able to move or do anything as if his/her own ship caused a mutiny. Again, I'd rather see Concord doing this vs a "Magically Force" preventing any movement. I just prefer things to make sense, then get an answer of "Because we said so." Repeat to yourself, "It's just a game; I should really just relax." A good lore handwave is always nice, but a gameplay mechanic for gameplay reasons is always vastly more important, and if you argue against the mechanic for lore reasons, you've lost perspective. Repeat the mantra...
I would rather have concord ships enter the wormhole (without destabilizing it any) and blast the owner on the other side, then come back. That would make more sense than miraculously preventing the ship from entering the wormhole.
I know its too much hassle for the programmers but just saying. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
281
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 09:34:00 -
[279] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:"We're not going to bother explaining why we did it this way even though we've been asked multiple times by multiple people. We're just going to ask you to trust us even though we've often demonstrated in the past that we screw new features up in ways players predict prior to launch."
CCP: new feature! players: lol, that's gonna cause these and these problems, we'll bug report it BH: working as intended! players: CCP, honestly... that's just gonna go wrong because of A and B reasons CCP: nah looks good, lets do it!
:launch: :3 months later: tiny dev blog: it looks as if this new feature has gone slightly wrong because of A and B reasons and completely messes up players/market/balance (pick two). We didn't realise this, sorry guys players: NO **** Amat victoria curam. |
Alexander Renoir
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 11:04:00 -
[280] - Quote
It will not be possible to place bounties on NPC characters (like agents) or corporations [...], nor on CCP developers or ISD people.
Thats fair? You do not want to be harassed or griefed; but ALL your paying customers have to deal with it? WHY? Never done wrong thinks but will soon have bounty? If you want bounties, you will get bounties. I will spend bounties on EVERY LESS THAN A DAY player in my corp channel! Abandon this stupid idea that someone with positive sec state can have a bounty. Change it so that someone with a negative sec state is NOT ABLE to push them back into positive so fast!
Bad Idea in the beginning! |
|
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 00:50:00 -
[281] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:"We're not going to bother explaining why we did it this way even though we've been asked multiple times by multiple people. We're just going to ask you to trust us even though we've often demonstrated in the past that we screw new features up in ways players predict prior to launch." CCP: new feature! players: lol, that's gonna cause these and these problems, we'll bug report it BH: working as intended! players: CCP, honestly... that's just gonna go wrong because of A and B reasons CCP: nah looks good, lets do it! :launch: :3 months later: tiny dev blog: it looks as if this new feature has gone slightly wrong because of A and B reasons and completely messes up players/market/balance (pick two). We didn't realise this, sorry guys players: NO ****
A certain Dev a while back gave me crap because I suggested editing their OP to link an important update they posted which was buried within a 60 page plus thread, because I didn't have the time to wade through to find that post. Yet it's funny how they pick and choose what they'll somewhat answer here, blatantly ignoring major issues the we, the paying community, bring up in advance. They only answer the simple question while sidestepping what we know to be a broken mechanic. Is it Pride? I truly don't understand the neglegence... Especially when a issue is known far in advance. Any non-snide honest detailed answer to this Devs? eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1368
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 07:53:00 -
[282] - Quote
Cordo Draken wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:"We're not going to bother explaining why we did it this way even though we've been asked multiple times by multiple people. We're just going to ask you to trust us even though we've often demonstrated in the past that we screw new features up in ways players predict prior to launch." CCP: new feature! players: lol, that's gonna cause these and these problems, we'll bug report it BH: working as intended! players: CCP, honestly... that's just gonna go wrong because of A and B reasons CCP: nah looks good, lets do it! :launch: :3 months later: tiny dev blog: it looks as if this new feature has gone slightly wrong because of A and B reasons and completely messes up players/market/balance (pick two). We didn't realise this, sorry guys players: NO **** A certain Dev a while back gave me crap because I suggested editing their OP to link an important update they posted which was buried within a 60 page plus thread, because I didn't have the time to wade through to find that post. Yet it's funny how they pick and choose what they'll somewhat answer here, blatantly ignoring major issues that we, the paying community, bring up in advance. They only answer the simple question while sidestepping what we know to be a broken mechanic. Is it Pride? I truly don't understand the neglegence... Especially when a issue is known far in advance. Any non-snide honest detailed answer to the major issues slated in this thread Devs?
-áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Alexander Renoir
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 07:23:00 -
[283] - Quote
Alexander Renoir wrote:It will not be possible to place bounties on NPC characters (like agents) or corporations [...], nor on CCP developers or ISD people.Thats fair? You do not want to be harassed or griefed; but ALL your paying customers have to deal with it? WHY? Never done wrong things but will soon have bounty? If you want bounties, you will get bounties. I will spend bounties on EVERY LESS THAN A DAY player in my corp channel! Abandon this stupid idea that someone with positive sec state can have a bounty. Change it so that someone with a negative sec state is NOT ABLE to push them back into positive so fast! I know that a bounty is not a kill right. But the bounty system is controlled by CONCORD! Why will CONCORD allow to place bounties on someone who never did criminal acts? A bounty gives someone a touch of a criminal. I never done criminal things in EVE. And I do not wish that someone other think that I have done something like that! Bad Idea in the beginning!
TO CCP: THIS IS AN OFFICIAL QUESTION!
Why do you exclude your own employee from this crappy bounty system?
I think that you know, that you have just created a daft, 100% grieving tool but you will not be involved in that crap. So please explain why your paying customer must deal with that? And please.. NO "CCP Punkturis" which was again not involved in the decision process and is not able to find a bad piece in this daft idea. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1368
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 07:27:00 -
[284] - Quote
What is your problem? The hell is so important about being able to place a bounty on a dev? Please leave the thread to people with legitimate concerns, not pointless whining. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal Dec Shield
465
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 10:26:00 -
[285] - Quote
The patch as described will NOT allow any of my trapped victims to go free. Letting aggressors in mutual wars instantly retract is not enough to stop what I'm doing. Here's why:
The new trap: When a corp joins/leaves the alliance it makes a "copy" of that war which is "transferred" to the new entity. This "copy" isn't a copy, but a new war. It sets the start date of that war as the moment that the corp joined/left the alliance. That means all I have to do is set all the wars unmutual (so they can't instant retract them), and then cycle corps in/out of alliance constantly (thus renewing an inescapable 7 day war timer), and when the corp rejoins the alliance, the alliance's dropped wars will get restored by the new war copy. A completely inescapable non-mutual trap.
The Evidence: Dec Shield Non-Mutual Exploit
The above photo is taken from a corp that left Dec Shield on the 26th. It was with 250+ wars. Now 4 days later not a single war has ended (when 4/7ths of the wars should have ended by now by random distribution). You'll note the two wars that "started" on the 30th. Those are corps that dropped out of an alliance and have received fresh 7 day war timers against me as a result.
The Solution: The solution to this problem is pretty straight forward. Set the start time of each war to the start time of the original parent war it spawned from. Or allow all wars to be instantly retracted, not just mutual ones. Burn Highsec Griefers |
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 13:28:00 -
[286] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky. This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry What about the defect where you can MJD out of a hundred long points, land on a hundred seboed interceptors and still warp away before any of them lock you, in your triple plate baddon?
Nvm i misread that thingy... |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3773
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 13:57:00 -
[287] - Quote
Alexander Renoir wrote:Alexander Renoir wrote:It will not be possible to place bounties on NPC characters (like agents) or corporations [...], nor on CCP developers or ISD people.Thats fair? You do not want to be harassed or griefed; but ALL your paying customers have to deal with it? WHY? Never done wrong things but will soon have bounty? If you want bounties, you will get bounties. I will spend bounties on EVERY LESS THAN A DAY player in my corp channel! Abandon this stupid idea that someone with positive sec state can have a bounty. Change it so that someone with a negative sec state is NOT ABLE to push them back into positive so fast! I know that a bounty is not a kill right. But the bounty system is controlled by CONCORD! Why will CONCORD allow to place bounties on someone who never did criminal acts? A bounty gives someone a touch of a criminal. I never done criminal things in EVE. And I do not wish that someone other think that I have done something like that! Bad Idea in the beginning! TO CCP: THIS IS AN OFFICIAL QUESTION!Why do you exclude your own employees from this crappy bounty system?I think that you know, that you have just created a daft, 100% grieving tool but you will not be involved in that crap. So please explain why your paying customer, with positive Security Rating, must deal with that? And please.. NO "CCP Punkturis" which was again not involved in the decision process and is not able to find a bad piece in this daft idea.
okay
Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1368
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:09:00 -
[288] - Quote
Well I guess the dev team, despite the appearance they've tried to convey, have completely stopped taking any feedback on this atrocity and all that's left is the horrifying combination of prescience and a train crash. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:11:00 -
[289] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well I guess the dev team, despite the appearance they've tried to convey, have completely stopped taking any feedback on this atrocity and all that's left is the horrifying combination of prescience and a train crash. Again. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
262
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:13:00 -
[290] - Quote
Alexander Renoir wrote:
Why do you exclude your own employees from this crappy bounty system?
Because we want the Most Wanted list to reflect realistic targets for people to chase. This becomes especially more relevant if we implement increased payout percentage based on Most Wanted list placement. So we don't want to clutter this list with targets that players cannot interact with in-game on regular basis, like ISD or Dev characters.
As others have pointed out in this thread, security rating has very little to do with how 'good' or 'evil' a character is. For instance, someone could margin scam you or steal from your corporation, yet have very high security standing. |
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1369
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:16:00 -
[291] - Quote
And look at what we have here! Developers answering the easiest and least important questions. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
262
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:25:00 -
[292] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well I guess the dev team, despite the appearance they've tried to convey, have completely stopped taking any feedback on this atrocity and all that's left is the horrifying combination of prescience and a train crash.
I have responded that activating a Suspect flag is by design and there is nothing in the feedback that has been given that shows that has to change. Yes, this system is different, and more harsh in many ways, yes, it will mean some people will have to adapt, yes, it means changes in some player behavior. None of these are a show-stopper. None of the arguments that have been made has convinced the team we need to change this. We do make changes based on feedback when we agree it needs to happen, allowing the owner of a kill right to be more specific in choosing whom to make the kill right available to is one example of this.
You may not agree to this decision, but there is a difference between listening to feedback and acting upon it and one does not exclude the other. |
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James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1369
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:29:00 -
[293] - Quote
I just don't see how it makes any sense that a kill right I pay for can be capitalized on by anyone, even if I'm the only one who's allowed to activate the kill right. Why would I pay for the ability for everyone to shoot my target?
It doesn't incentivize bounty hunting nearly as much as you think it does.
The only possible hope I could have is that I could eventually get the victim on their own and then activate the killright, but realistically that's pretty much never going to happen. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:36:00 -
[294] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well I guess the dev team, despite the appearance they've tried to convey, have completely stopped taking any feedback on this atrocity and all that's left is the horrifying combination of prescience and a train crash. I have responded that activating a Suspect flag is by design and there is nothing in the feedback that has been given that shows that has to change. Yes, this system is different, and more harsh in many ways, yes, it will mean some people will have to adapt, yes, it means changes in some player behavior. None of these are a show-stopper. None of the arguments that have been made has convinced the team we need to change this. We do make changes based on feedback when we agree it needs to happen, allowing the owner of a kill right to be more specific in choosing whom to make the kill right available to is one example of this. You may not agree to this decision, but there is a difference between listening to feedback and acting upon it and one does not exclude the other. So, since you're answering about killrights, bounties etc, is my understanding that even if a killright is set to a specific person, corp or alliance, they still have to pay the price the killright owner has set it at, which is anything from 0 to infinity?
Since I've assumed this before, and I haven't been corrected, I'm going to assume this is indeed how it will work in future. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
262
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:39:00 -
[295] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I just don't see how it makes any sense that a kill right I pay for can be capitalized on by anyone, even if I'm the only one who's allowed to activate the kill right. Why would I pay for the ability for everyone to shoot my target?
It doesn't incentivize bounty hunting nearly as much as you think it does.
The only possible hope I could have is that I could eventually get the victim on their own and then activate the killright, but realistically that's pretty much never going to happen.
I agree it doesn't incentivize bounty hunting as much as some other solutions, but we felt it is better for the kill right system itself to be the way it is. Perhaps down the road we can combine the two if we can allow people to place bounty only available to certain entities. We're now looking into if/how to implement placing a bounty on a structure, which will require some fundamental changes to the bounty system, as it's more of a one-time contract kill than a general pool. Based on those changes, it might be possible to do something similar on character/corp/alliance level, but it's too early to tell.
Something like that might be ideal way to marry the new bounty system to the new kill right system, but for Retribution we felt it was better to focus on the individual needs of the two systems. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
262
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:41:00 -
[296] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well I guess the dev team, despite the appearance they've tried to convey, have completely stopped taking any feedback on this atrocity and all that's left is the horrifying combination of prescience and a train crash. I have responded that activating a Suspect flag is by design and there is nothing in the feedback that has been given that shows that has to change. Yes, this system is different, and more harsh in many ways, yes, it will mean some people will have to adapt, yes, it means changes in some player behavior. None of these are a show-stopper. None of the arguments that have been made has convinced the team we need to change this. We do make changes based on feedback when we agree it needs to happen, allowing the owner of a kill right to be more specific in choosing whom to make the kill right available to is one example of this. You may not agree to this decision, but there is a difference between listening to feedback and acting upon it and one does not exclude the other. So, since you're answering about killrights, bounties etc, is my understanding that even if a killright is set to a specific person, corp or alliance, they still have to pay the price the killright owner has set it at, which is anything from 0 to infinity? Since I've assumed this before, and I haven't been corrected, I'm going to assume this is indeed how it will work in future.
Yes, this is true. We did have a design for allowing the owner of the kill right even more control over the availability, with multiple price points. For instance, he could make it available to everyone for X amount, to corp A for Y amount and his own corp for Z amount. But the UI complexity on this was something we decided to wait upon implementing. |
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Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:43:00 -
[297] - Quote
So, pray tell, why should I become a bountyhunter when I have to pay anything from 0 to x isk to activate a killright, so everyone else can try to shoot him for 15 minutes, get the bounty (if present) and loot (if present)? What's in it for me? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
262
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:48:00 -
[298] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:So, pray tell, why should I become a bountyhunter when I have to pay anything from 0 to x isk to activate a killright, so everyone else can try to shoot him for 15 minutes, get the bounty (if present) and loot (if present)? What's in it for me?
If you want to be a serous bounty hunter, then low sec is going to be your main hunting ground. I seriously doubt there will be enough players with high bounty, available kill right and flying an expensive ship in hi sec for anyone to make a career out of being a bounty hunter based on that alone. |
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Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 14:55:00 -
[299] - Quote
So instead of making the transferrable killright something which could be transferred to another person/corp/alliance with a specific bounty on it (you know, so bountyhunters could've actually been a viable profession even in hisec), it's made into a hisec vigilante tool, specifically designed to be the final counter against freighter/miner ganking.
I see. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
262
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 15:05:00 -
[300] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:So instead of making the transferrable killright something which could be transferred to another person/corp/alliance with a specific bounty on it (you know, so bountyhunters could've actually been a viable profession even in hisec), it's made into a hisec vigilante tool, specifically designed to be the final counter against freighter/miner ganking.
I see.
The kill right system has been in the game since 2005, yet has never really worked as originally intended. Less than 1% of kill rights are actually used. The kill right system now has a higher chance of actually leading to retribution. So the intent here is to fix a system implemented in RMR to be more functional. |
|
|
Lord Zim
2074
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 15:06:00 -
[301] - Quote
By turning it into a public vigilante system with an optional pricetag, instead of simply making it into something which could be transferred to a char, a corp or an alliance, which would've been all that was needed to make the killright system work as a bountyhunter system. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1056
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 15:13:00 -
[302] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Lord Zim wrote:So, pray tell, why should I become a bountyhunter when I have to pay anything from 0 to x isk to activate a killright, so everyone else can try to shoot him for 15 minutes, get the bounty (if present) and loot (if present)? What's in it for me? If you want to be a serous bounty hunter, then low sec is going to be your main hunting ground. I seriously doubt there will be enough players with high bounty, available kill right and flying an expensive ship in hi sec for anyone to make a career out of being a bounty hunter based on that alone.
No, but there might be some high priced ships out there without killrights that you might incentivize to get blown up! Where I am. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1369
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 15:24:00 -
[303] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I just don't see how it makes any sense that a kill right I pay for can be capitalized on by anyone, even if I'm the only one who's allowed to activate the kill right. Why would I pay for the ability for everyone to shoot my target?
It doesn't incentivize bounty hunting nearly as much as you think it does.
The only possible hope I could have is that I could eventually get the victim on their own and then activate the killright, but realistically that's pretty much never going to happen. I agree it doesn't incentivize bounty hunting as much as some other solutions, but we felt it is better for the kill right system itself to be the way it is. Perhaps down the road we can combine the two if we can allow people to place bounty only available to certain entities. We're now looking into if/how to implement placing a bounty on a structure, which will require some fundamental changes to the bounty system, as it's more of a one-time contract kill than a general pool. Based on those changes, it might be possible to do something similar on character/corp/alliance level, but it's too early to tell. Something like that might be ideal way to marry the new bounty system to the new kill right system, but for Retribution we felt it was better to focus on the individual needs of the two systems. Well that does make me feel a bit better. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
25
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 19:07:00 -
[304] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I just don't see how it makes any sense that a kill right I pay for can be capitalized on by anyone, even if I'm the only one who's allowed to activate the kill right. Why would I pay for the ability for everyone to shoot my target?
It doesn't incentivize bounty hunting nearly as much as you think it does.
The only possible hope I could have is that I could eventually get the victim on their own and then activate the killright, but realistically that's pretty much never going to happen. I agree it doesn't incentivize bounty hunting as much as some other solutions, but we felt it is better for the kill right system itself to be the way it is. Perhaps down the road we can combine the two if we can allow people to place bounty only available to certain entities. We're now looking into if/how to implement placing a bounty on a structure, which will require some fundamental changes to the bounty system, as it's more of a one-time contract kill than a general pool. Based on those changes, it might be possible to do something similar on character/corp/alliance level, but it's too early to tell. Something like that might be ideal way to marry the new bounty system to the new kill right system, but for Retribution we felt it was better to focus on the individual needs of the two systems.
Ugh, I feel like you guys are going in circles and the direct Q & A is getting missed. Soniclover... The main question here is, Why didn't you guys just make it so activating a Killrightjust gives you or your fleet an LE? It would solve this whole debate! It would make sense for a Bounty Hunter/Bounty Hunter Corp to pursue that profession. You guys created the Limited Engagement flag for a good reason, so why not make full use of it here?
You're giving us a new improved system that we are all chomping at the bit to make use of, enjoy and praise you guys for; but your frustrating us all by hampering it with issuing a Suspect flag for anyone to blob, steal and it simply destroys the whole point of what being a Bounty Hunter is all about. How do you guys not understand this?
With Inferno, you Devs thought your new War system would help create and improvea profession of being a Merc Corp. Did that work? No. It's a jumbled mess. Now this... It's like, your Heart is in the right place in wanting to develop new awesome ways to play Eve, and you've all put in so much work to develop a better system, but the Tail End of your Execution of these systems is falling short. It's like a juicy steak dangling over our heads... We can smell it! But we can't yet sink our teeth into yet!
Please... Listen to you community on this. You keep saying, "We felt it was in the best interest of the game to do it this way". Last I checked, we the community, ARE THE GAME; are we not? What if, for once... You trusted our opinion and made that change: activating a Killright creates an LE for you and you fleet on the target.
Afterall, if this somehow breaks the game and everyone screams, we'd only have oursleves to blame... Right? So why not try it? eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
360
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 21:03:00 -
[305] - Quote
Cordo Draken wrote:Afterall, if this somehow breaks the game and everyone screams, we'd only have oursleves to blame... Right? So why not try it?
So you're saying that all of us agree with you? |
Alexander Renoir
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.01 07:19:00 -
[306] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Alexander Renoir wrote:
Why do you exclude your own employees from this crappy bounty system?
Because we want the Most Wanted list to reflect realistic targets for people to chase. This becomes especially more relevant if we implement increased payout percentage based on Most Wanted list placement. So we don't want to clutter this list with targets that players cannot interact with in-game on regular basis, like ISD or Dev characters. As others have pointed out in this thread, security rating has very little to do with how 'good' or 'evil' a character is. For instance, someone could margin scam you or steal from your corporation, yet have very high security standing.
Oh! In other words you know that you have created a simple grieving tool. And you know that not the bad guys will be on top of this bounty list but the famous guys in EVE will do. And to hide this fact you just exclude CCP at once. Clever!
Furthermore it IS my opinion, that a security rating is an indicator for the play stile of a character. You have to do criminal things for a -10 or you have to keep out of trouble for a +5.0! |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
26
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 18:53:00 -
[307] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:Cordo Draken wrote:Afterall, if this somehow breaks the game and everyone screams, we'd only have oursleves to blame... Right? So why not try it? So you're saying that all of us agree with you?
Oh that's right, I forgot... Goonswarm is the hand that works the CCP Puppet... my apologies eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
Aethlyn
166
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 21:32:00 -
[308] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:By turning it into a public vigilante system with an optional pricetag, instead of simply making it into something which could be transferred to a char, a corp or an alliance, which would've been all that was needed to make the killright system work as a bountyhunter system. Which actuallystill fits the game's lore quite well. Capsuleers are more or less considered uncontrollable and switching allegiance at will based on payments and things (at least some of them), which is also the reason for CONCORD and the technology withheld by them (to keep them under control). This is also something that appears a bit in the 2012 Fanfest trailer (just talking about the Dust 514 Infantry rather than Capsuleers) as well the books.
The only part of the new bounty system I'm not 100% sure yet is the ability to place it on anyone, even new players, but at the same time payouts on new players would be minimal, making ganking them in high far from lucrative. Looking for more thoughts? Read http://aethlyn.blogspot.com/ or follow me on http://twitter.com/Aethlyn. |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
815
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 23:46:00 -
[309] - Quote
Cordo Draken wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I just don't see how it makes any sense that a kill right I pay for can be capitalized on by anyone, even if I'm the only one who's allowed to activate the kill right. Why would I pay for the ability for everyone to shoot my target?
It doesn't incentivize bounty hunting nearly as much as you think it does.
The only possible hope I could have is that I could eventually get the victim on their own and then activate the killright, but realistically that's pretty much never going to happen. I agree it doesn't incentivize bounty hunting as much as some other solutions, but we felt it is better for the kill right system itself to be the way it is. Perhaps down the road we can combine the two if we can allow people to place bounty only available to certain entities. We're now looking into if/how to implement placing a bounty on a structure, which will require some fundamental changes to the bounty system, as it's more of a one-time contract kill than a general pool. Based on those changes, it might be possible to do something similar on character/corp/alliance level, but it's too early to tell. Something like that might be ideal way to marry the new bounty system to the new kill right system, but for Retribution we felt it was better to focus on the individual needs of the two systems. Ugh, I feel like you guys are going in circles and the direct Q & A is getting missed. Soniclover... The main question here is, Why didn't you guys just make it so activating a Killrightjust gives you or your fleet an LE? It would solve this whole debate! It would make sense for a Bounty Hunter/Bounty Hunter Corp to pursue that profession. You guys created the Limited Engagement flag for a good reason, so why not make full use of it here? You're giving us a new improved system that we are all chomping at the bit to make use of, enjoy and praise you guys for; but your frustrating us all by hampering it with issuing a Suspect flag for anyone to blob, steal and it simply destroys the whole point of what being a Bounty Hunter is all about. How do you guys not understand this? With Inferno, you Devs thought your new War system would help create and improvea profession of being a Merc Corp. Did that work? No. It's a jumbled mess. Now this... It's like, your Heart is in the right place in wanting to develop new awesome ways to play Eve, and you've all put in so much work to develop a better system, but the Tail End of your Execution of these systems is falling short. It's like a juicy steak dangling over our heads... We can smell it! But we can't yet sink our teeth into yet! Please... Listen to you community on this. You keep saying, "We felt it was in the best interest of the game to do it this way". Last I checked, we the community, ARE THE GAME; are we not? What if, for once... You trusted our opinion and made that change: activating a Killright creates an LE for you and you fleet on the target. Afterall, if this somehow breaks the game and everyone screams, we'd only have oursleves to blame... Right? So why not try it? This. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Lord Zim
2075
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 00:16:00 -
[310] - Quote
Aethlyn wrote:Lord Zim wrote:By turning it into a public vigilante system with an optional pricetag, instead of simply making it into something which could be transferred to a char, a corp or an alliance, which would've been all that was needed to make the killright system work as a bountyhunter system. Which actuallystill fits the game's lore quite well. Capsuleers are more or less considered uncontrollable and switching allegiance at will based on payments and things (at least some of them), which is also the reason for CONCORD and the technology withheld by them (to keep them under control). You seem to be misunderstanding how it works. Let's say I do anything offensive to someone's ship (or someone's pod in lowsec vOv), they automatically get a killright on me regardless of whether or not they actually get killed.
Now, what people who wanted to make a career out of bountyhunting actually wanted out of the system rework was a reason for them to be a bountyhunter. The best way of doing this would've been to let the guy I killed put a price on the killright he had, and transfer it to a character, corp or alliance, and they would then go out, start a limited engagement with that guy, kill him for you, and receive the bounty which was directly associated with that killright.
What they got, was a system where the guy I killed would have 3 options: 1) stalk me and activate the killright whenever he chose, and watch everyone else shoot me for 15 minutes 2) put the killright public for anything between 0 and infinity isk, and whenever someone activated the killright, he would get the money (if any). This had risks associated with it, because either he set it too low and the guy he wanted griefed would just activate it and shoot himself with an alt, or it would be set so high nobody wanted to plop down the money and try to gank the guy and run off with the bounty (if applicable) and loot. If someone else got the final blow, they ran off with the bounty (if applicable), and everyone else could run off with the loot, leaving the bountyhunter with a net loss. 3) same as 2), except it's transferred to a single char, corp or alliance.
TL/DR: Players wanted: bountyhunter system. Players got: vigilante system. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
|
StuRyan
UK Space Marines
46
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 00:22:00 -
[311] - Quote
i'm still searching for an answer to my question regarding why you have to keep nerfing things.
You seem to react a lot which to me means two things: a. its the easiest way to keep you player base happy (the whiners) b. you will forever be trying to keep people happy.
Why don't you change your culture to promote out of the box thinking when there is im-balance,. Im-balance is good for the game because it keeps people trying to invent a new gaming style... reacting to im-balance stops people from doing that. I would prefer to see a CCP promote im-balance and the subsequent emergent gaming styles that would appear, and if you can enhance the emerging gaming styles to bring about a more balanced game i would be more happier and i suspect other people will be too.
e.g. this ASB; lovely module its over powered and the easiest thing for you was to nerf it, however i would have preferred you guys to have come out with its predator a module that transfer the incoming boost to the a ship that is engaged with the ship that has a ASB... more fun to be had... now the ASB is going to once again take a back seat and normal tank and hardener defence will once again take priority over the hugely fun ASB's.
My point here is please stop being reactive and start to be proactive... we want to blow stuff up but there is a huge number of us that also like the GF's as well as being original. Being reactive cuts emerging game styles off from the balls day one. We kill well or die laughing * UK PVP CORP RECRUITING * Please join AHREC |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
477
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 00:25:00 -
[312] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: TL/DR: Players wanted: bountyhunter system. Players got: vigilante system.
Isn't that the same thing? zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Riikard Thexder
Cup Of ConKrete
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 01:24:00 -
[313] - Quote
Bounty and Kill Rights are two diffrent things.
I can place a bounty on my own head or some one elses and no one can ever claim that bounty unless I do something stupid that gives them kill rights or myself a suspect flag. I can hide in an NPC corp for ever and no one can Dec that so cant activly hunt me.
People who get kill rights are not always going to put bounty on the toon that they have the kill rights for.
People want to be able to put bounty on others heads and know they will get whats coming to them, like that guy that just scammed them, the pilot that just left thier corp with those 3 t3 cruisers, that idiot in local that never shuts up.
Puting a bounty on someones head doesnt give kill rights or any availablity to kill said person, so there is no bounty hunting system, puting pretty lights on the old unworking bounty system does not equate to a new bounty hunting system (by pretty lights I mean the abilty to put the bounty on corp/allience << good idea, but still does not fix the underlying problem of the bounty system.)
It wouldnt be hard to buy kill rights for people with bounty from the bounty office, have that right last a week or more like a war dec, do it for yourself or your corp/allience.
We had a thread all about this up nearly a year ago and it had heaps of great ideas but like this will be over looked.
I know I am waisting my time with this because it will just get ignored by devs anyway. |
Riikard Thexder
Cup Of ConKrete
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 02:32:00 -
[314] - Quote
It was Posted 20 months ago!!
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1501417
|
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1381
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 09:11:00 -
[315] - Quote
You're forgetting about suicide ganks.
If 20% of their ship cost is equal or greater than what you need to suicide gank that ship, and their bounty is at least that much, you can turn a profit by ganking them, looting their wreck, and salvaging. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Riikard Thexder
Cup Of ConKrete
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 11:23:00 -
[316] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:You're forgetting about suicide ganks.
If 20% of their ship cost is equal or greater than what you need to suicide gank that ship, and their bounty is at least that much, you can turn a profit by ganking them, looting their wreck, and salvaging.
Yeah I did think of this, but it kinds of defeats it as a career. Bounty Hunter/ Suicide Ganker + this would then inturn give them kill rights against you for the next mth making you a target.
At least if you bourght kill rights/mini war dec as a bounty hunter from the bounty office ones a hit was complete it would be done with. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
331
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 14:27:00 -
[317] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Alexander Renoir wrote:
Why do you exclude your own employees from this crappy bounty system?
Because we want the Most Wanted list to reflect realistic targets for people to chase. This becomes especially more relevant if we implement increased payout percentage based on Most Wanted list placement. So we don't want to clutter this list with targets that players cannot interact with in-game on regular basis, like ISD or Dev characters. As others have pointed out in this thread, security rating has very little to do with how 'good' or 'evil' a character is. For instance, someone could margin scam you or steal from your corporation, yet have very high security standing.
Wouldn't it be fairly easy to exclude GMs and CCPs from the bounty office listings but still be possible to put bounty on? |
Dusicka
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 15:06:00 -
[318] - Quote
I completely agree with Riikard Thexder. The fact is that we have some sort of bounty rewarding system, but there is no space for real bounty hunting profession.
My imagination of bounty hunter profession is that I will go to the bounty hunting office and there I will purchase Bounty hunter's license for one month (price and range can vary based on security level of desired systems and sovereignty - for example: 100M for all 0.1-0.6 systems in caldari space). After that for one month I will be eligible to attack anyone in allowed systems who has bounty on his head - with no sanctions (no standing loss, no kill rights on me).
Of course there must be some adjustments to the current system, so it cannot be exploitable (like I will put bounty on this shiny jump freighter and I can kill it). I think that bounty can be put only on players which did some bad thing to me. Based on "after an action there is an reaction" law. Like this:
- Hey! You killed my ship/pod! I will put bounty on you head, have fun with bounty hunters!
- You stole from my container! I will leave the dirty work for bounty hunters!
- You think that you can rob our corporation and leave free? No way, now the whole universe will be looking after you!
Simply said: If someone gets aggro then I can put bounty on him for duration of that aggression or if I'm director of corporation I can put bounty on any member of my corporation (or former members which left corporation 1 day ago).
Overall I think that current bounty rewarding system is a good step, but the whole bounty hunting system needs more improvements in way of attacking people which have bounty on their head in hisec. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1406
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 15:25:00 -
[319] - Quote
Riikard Thexder wrote:Oh and James Amril-Kesh you should be a dev, coz you respond to thread more then they do. I sure could use the income... -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 00:23:00 -
[320] - Quote
As a total carebear who likes mining and making things who, up until last week was about to give up on this game because I felt that I would never be able to get revenge against all those who have wronged me (check my kill board, there is been a few) I took a good look into this and rubbed my dirty miners hands together.
At last a way I can get my own back.
So today I sold my kill rights, all of them, for a small fee and a few hours after doing so, a notification popped up saying a kill right had been completed.
I checked the kill boards.
My loss, 50m, their loss, 58m.
Victory.
Shortly after members of the pirate corp, threatened to come and find me and kill me. My simple reply, I have deep pockets, for every kill you make on me, I will add as a bounty on your corp, every kill right I will sell.
You will have to lose 5 x my loss for wronging me.
I swear, I could almost taste the pirate tears... Or is that carebear tears?
I have never, in all of my game time in eve, felt like I had actually "won" but now I had. So much so I sent the people on the kill mail a thankyou email and some extra ISK with encouragement to keep up the good work.
Oh revenge is so sweet. |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3890
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 01:02:00 -
[321] - Quote
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:As a total carebear who likes mining and making things who, up until last week was about to give up on this game because I felt that I would never be able to get revenge against all those who have wronged me (check my kill board, there is been a few) I took a good look into this and rubbed my dirty miners hands together.
At last a way I can get my own back.
So today I sold my kill rights, all of them, for a small fee and a few hours after doing so, a notification popped up saying a kill right had been completed.
I checked the kill boards.
My loss, 50m, their loss, 58m.
Victory.
Shortly after members of the pirate corp, threatened to come and find me and kill me. My simple reply, I have deep pockets, for every kill you make on me, I will add as a bounty on your corp, every kill right I will sell.
You will have to lose 5 x my loss for wronging me.
I swear, I could almost taste the pirate tears... Or is that carebear tears?
I have never, in all of my game time in eve, felt like I had actually "won" but now I had. So much so I sent the people on the kill mail a thankyou email and some extra ISK with encouragement to keep up the good work.
Oh revenge is so sweet.
gonna pay them to gank you
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3892
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 01:04:00 -
[322] - Quote
hoep you enjoy your bounty |
Riikard Thexder
Cup Of ConKrete
1
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 04:20:00 -
[323] - Quote
Dusicka wrote:Of course there must be some adjustments to the current system, so it cannot be exploitable (like I will put bounty on this shiny jump freighter and I can kill it). I think that bounty can be put only on players which did some bad thing to me. Based on "after an action there is an reaction" law. Like this:
- Hey! You killed my ship/pod! I will put bounty on you head, have fun with bounty hunters!
- You stole from my container! I will leave the dirty work for bounty hunters!
- You think that you can rob our corporation and leave free? No way, now the whole universe will be looking after you!
Simply said: If someone gets aggro then I can put bounty on him for duration of that aggression or if I'm director of corporation I can put bounty on any member of my corporation (or former members which left corporation 1 day ago). Overall I think that current bounty rewarding system is a good step, but the whole bounty hunting system needs more improvements in way of attacking people which have bounty on their head in hisec.
I think it should just be like a small individual war dec, that way boh parties get notification that they are 'at war' for the next week, so if they are stupid enuff to go out in thier frighter during the week then to bad, you wouldnt do this while war dec'd.
Can only do a bounty dec on people whom have bounty and it is a less cost then a war dec because it is against 1 person (or multiple if you delcare hunting multiple targets) coz really, if you dont like someone that was in a player corp you could just war dec the corp to get a peice of them. But this if limited if you are in a small corp and they are large etc.
This way a player can be in a corp and have a bounty, a bounty hunter can declare intent to hunt them, if thier corp mates help them eg RR etc, then they will also become a legal target of bounty hunter (for 15minutes) (which strenghens CCPs 'about the company you keep')
Both parties get 24h notice so you cant just catch them in the shinny frieghter, and you can blow them up till your hearts content for a week or till thier bounty runs out (in this case hostilities cease straight away) |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 05:48:00 -
[324] - Quote
I was going to reply to http://adharkhorin.com/2012/12/kill-right-scamming/ that CONCORD takes the cost when selling a kill right, but none of the Dev Blogs nor even http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Kill_rights#Selling_and_buying_kill_rights mentions *who* gets the money. Please correct http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Kill_rights#Selling_and_buying_kill_rights with who gets the money when a kill right being sold is activated. |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
127
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 09:57:00 -
[325] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: Yes, this is true. We did have a design for allowing the owner of the kill right even more control over the availability, with multiple price points. For instance, he could make it available to everyone for X amount, to corp A for Y amount and his own corp for Z amount. But the UI complexity on this was something we decided to wait upon implementing.
Did it occur to you someone might be trying to abuse it for scamming people? |
Jezza McWaffle
EVOL Command EVOL.
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:56:00 -
[326] - Quote
Someone correct me if I am wrong but here is an example:
P1: Oh neautral afk in a belt *kills neutral but does not pod*
P2: Oh now I can activate kill right for the next month and anyone anywhere anytime can shoot you
P1: Well CCP ****** this up.
Can someone explain to me why pvp in low sec would ever happen again now that you can put a kill right on anyone who shoots you if your neutral and for the next month everywhere they go they can be killed. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1418
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:58:00 -
[327] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:Someone correct me if I am wrong but here is an example:
P1: Oh neautral afk in a belt *kills neutral but does not pod*
P2: Oh now I can activate kill right for the next month and anyone anywhere anytime can shoot you
P1: Well CCP ****** this up.
Can someone explain to me why pvp in low sec would ever happen again now that you can put a kill right on anyone who shoots you if your neutral and for the next month everywhere they go they can be killed. Because you don't get kill rights in lowsec unless your pod is aggressed. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Lord Zim
2077
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:02:00 -
[328] - Quote
If you web or point a pod, you generate a killright, the new system is frontloading instead of waiting for you to actually kill someone. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Jezza McWaffle
EVOL Command EVOL.
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:02:00 -
[329] - Quote
Guess CCP didn't cancel out old kill rights then... Since I have 3 on me all of them from agressing a neutral ship. yay. |
Lord Zim
2077
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:05:00 -
[330] - Quote
Of course they didn't. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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Tost Reim
Solar Wind Test Friends Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:29:00 -
[331] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:Someone correct me if I am wrong but here is an example:
P1: Oh neautral afk in a belt *kills neutral but does not pod*
P2: Oh now I can activate kill right for the next month and anyone anywhere anytime can shoot you
P1: Well CCP ****** this up.
Can someone explain to me why pvp in low sec would ever happen again now that you can put a kill right on anyone who shoots you if your neutral and for the next month everywhere they go they can be killed.
Well the first reason there will be pvp in low sec would be to ... Oh I don't know... Kill the people with bounties on their heads (since that is indeed what you are crying about). Also, isn't a system that promotes conflict something that would encourage pvp? Honestly the only thing that I see in your post is crying about how CCP gave people tools to indirectly pvp (which pvp is indeed what you people have been crying about for quite a while). |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
28
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:49:00 -
[332] - Quote
Yeah, I was trying to find Any literature on this important piece of info. Since SoniClover was vague on this, anyone test this out to verify who gets the isk? Are Killrights an ISK sink or have new value to the owner? eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
youaredumb
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 01:42:00 -
[333] - Quote
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:As a total carebear who likes mining and making things who, up until last week was about to give up on this game because I felt that I would never be able to get revenge against all those who have wronged me (check my kill board, there is been a few) I took a good look into this and rubbed my dirty miners hands together.
At last a way I can get my own back.
So today I sold my kill rights, all of them, for a small fee and a few hours after doing so, a notification popped up saying a kill right had been completed.
I checked the kill boards.
My loss, 50m, their loss, 58m.
Victory.
Shortly after members of the pirate corp, threatened to come and find me and kill me. My simple reply, I have deep pockets, for every kill you make on me, I will add as a bounty on your corp, every kill right I will sell.
You will have to lose 5 x my loss for wronging me.
I swear, I could almost taste the pirate tears... Or is that carebear tears?
I have never, in all of my game time in eve, felt like I had actually "won" but now I had. So much so I sent the people on the kill mail a thankyou email and some extra ISK with encouragement to keep up the good work.
Oh revenge is so sweet.
I recommend you sell the kill rights at 50m + so you can make even more money. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
270
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 11:31:00 -
[334] - Quote
Cordo Draken wrote:Yeah, I was trying to find Any literature on this important piece of info. Since SoniClover was vague on this, anyone test this out to verify who gets the isk? Are Killrights an ISK sink or have new value to the owner?
Sorry for being vague on this, that was unintentional. The ISK goes to the owner of the kill right, not to Concord. I-¦ll look into getting the wiki updated to be more clear. |
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Integra Arkanheld
Andorra Paradis Fiscal
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 13:05:00 -
[335] - Quote
The bounty system is bad. Player C Carebear fly an industrial with cargo, and is killed by player P Pirate. P takes 20M in loot, looses 5M in a small ship. C looses 50M of his ship and cargo+ 10M extra to put a bounty on P. P puts also 10M on C. P has WON 20-5-10=5M C has LOST 50+10=60M
P continue playing at PVP as normal even with the bounty, making money. C can no longer use an industrial as a suicide attacker would make 10M(20% of 50)+20M(normal cargo dropped) loosing a small ship. He becomes a very good target. And not only he cannot play like before, but he also has lost a LOT.
I think that players should only be able to put bounties on players on which they have killrights. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1425
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 13:06:00 -
[336] - Quote
Does bounty payout include or exclude dropped modules? -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
29
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 20:24:00 -
[337] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Cordo Draken wrote:Yeah, I was trying to find Any literature on this important piece of info. Since SoniClover was vague on this, anyone test this out to verify who gets the isk? Are Killrights an ISK sink or have new value to the owner? Sorry for being vague on this, that was unintentional. The ISK goes to the owner of the kill right, not to Concord. I-¦ll look into getting the wiki updated to be more clear.
Thank you Sir. This explains the 500 mil activation costs for Killrights on an Ibis floating outside Jita 4-4. The new scam. eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
Cayle Deteis
Free Mansons of EVE
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 11:30:00 -
[338] - Quote
Can you explain the new Bounty system logic? Everyone putting bounty to anyone. wtf logic is that? I thought bounties are consequence of illegal actions, (like killrights) instead Could you find yourself with a bounty upon your head (as many pilot since expansion experienced). Issue is not the prize but why is allowed. I think there is a need of fixing that. Security status and crime actions must be connected with this. Not an open bounty system.....It's crazy |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3868
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 21:45:00 -
[339] - Quote
Cayle Deteis wrote:Can you explain the new Bounty system logic? Everyone putting bounty to anyone. wtf logic is that? I thought bounties are consequence of illegal actions, (like killrights) instead Could you find yourself with a bounty upon your head (as many pilot since expansion experienced). Issue is not the prize but why is allowed. I think there is a need of fixing that. Security status and crime actions must be connected with this. Not an open bounty system.....It's crazy
Yeah, what she said.
Actually what I'd like to know is how can some assh....., er, character with negative security status be able to place a 100 mill bounty on my character that has +5.85 security status?
I worked long and hard to get that status which shows I'm a law abiding citizen of this community. Now it doesn't mean jackshit anymore. Thanks a lot.
Due to the continuous hunting / attacks by players looking to collect bounty pay and since the bounty payout is only 20% of said bounty based on ship / equipment loss or whatever the hell it is, my game play will now be constantly interrupted and no longer fun.
I am not a happy camper at all. I'm tired of people trying to force me to play this game their way. I did not join this game expressly for PvP, Factional Warfare, Corp/Alliance wars or to be a Pirate. I had plenty of that action from playing the mmo game - Dark Space. I joined this game to be an engineer doing exploration, invention and production while being able to travel anywhere at any time.
This whole bounty system is nothing more than an open invitation to grief players out of this game. Especially since a player in a large corp/alliance, due to having a much larger wallet, can constantly keep placing and or raising a bounty on a smaller player/corp/alliance, as well as entice or get more hunters in action.
Lately the past few expansions have done nothing except take large steps towards Eve Online becoming Grief Online.
DMC
|
Riikard Thexder
Cup Of ConKrete
1
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 23:05:00 -
[340] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Cayle Deteis wrote:Can you explain the new Bounty system logic? Everyone putting bounty to anyone. wtf logic is that? I thought bounties are consequence of illegal actions, (like killrights) instead Could you find yourself with a bounty upon your head (as many pilot since expansion experienced). Issue is not the prize but why is allowed. I think there is a need of fixing that. Security status and crime actions must be connected with this. Not an open bounty system.....It's crazy Yeah, what she said. Actually what I'd like to know is how can some assh....., er, character with negative security status be able to place a 100 mill bounty on my character that has +5.85 security status? I worked long and hard to get that status which shows I'm a law abiding citizen of this community. Now it doesn't mean jackshit anymore. Thanks a lot. Due to the continuous hunting / attacks by players looking to collect bounty pay and since the bounty payout is only 20% of said bounty based on ship / equipment loss or whatever the hell it is, my game play will now be constantly interrupted and no longer fun. I am not a happy camper at all. I'm tired of people trying to force me to play this game their way. I did not join this game expressly for PvP, Factional Warfare, Corp/Alliance wars or to be a Pirate. I had plenty of that action from playing the mmo game - Dark Space. I joined this game to be an engineer doing exploration, invention and production while being able to travel anywhere at any time. This whole bounty system is nothing more than an open invitation to grief players out of this game. Especially since a player in a large corp/alliance, due to having a much larger wallet, can constantly keep placing and or raising a bounty on a smaller player/corp/alliance, as well as entice or get more hunters in action. Lately the past few expansions have done nothing except take large steps towards Eve Online becoming Grief Online. DMC
Unless you have done something wrong then placing the bounty on you is not going to affect you in any way, no one can kill you just because you have a bounty on your head (tho they can still suicide gank you but they could of done that anyway) You can only get killed if someone has a kill right on you which by the sound of your occupation is doubtfull Your post sounds like an unnessesary cry, the bounty system for you has changed nothing. |
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Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
30
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 02:55:00 -
[341] - Quote
Riikard Thexder wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Cayle Deteis wrote:Can you explain the new Bounty system logic? Everyone putting bounty to anyone. wtf logic is that? I thought bounties are consequence of illegal actions, (like killrights) instead Could you find yourself with a bounty upon your head (as many pilot since expansion experienced). Issue is not the prize but why is allowed. I think there is a need of fixing that. Security status and crime actions must be connected with this. Not an open bounty system.....It's crazy Yeah, what she said. Actually what I'd like to know is how can some assh....., er, character with negative security status be able to place a 100 mill bounty on my character that has +5.85 security status? I worked long and hard to get that status which shows I'm a law abiding citizen of this community. Now it doesn't mean jackshit anymore. Thanks a lot. Due to the continuous hunting / attacks by players looking to collect bounty pay and since the bounty payout is only 20% of said bounty based on ship / equipment loss or whatever the hell it is, my game play will now be constantly interrupted and no longer fun. I am not a happy camper at all. I'm tired of people trying to force me to play this game their way. I did not join this game expressly for PvP, Factional Warfare, Corp/Alliance wars or to be a Pirate. I had plenty of that action from playing the mmo game - Dark Space. I joined this game to be an engineer doing exploration, invention and production while being able to travel anywhere at any time. This whole bounty system is nothing more than an open invitation to grief players out of this game. Especially since a player in a large corp/alliance, due to having a much larger wallet, can constantly keep placing and or raising a bounty on a smaller player/corp/alliance, as well as entice or get more hunters in action. Lately the past few expansions have done nothing except take large steps towards Eve Online becoming Grief Online. DMC Unless you have done something wrong then placing the bounty on you is not going to affect you in any way, no one can kill you just because you have a bounty on your head (tho they can still suicide gank you but they could of done that anyway) You can only get killed if someone has a kill right on you which by the sound of your occupation is doubtfull Your post sounds like an unnessesary cry, the bounty system for you has changed nothing.
Yeah, this is Correct. I think the common misconception here is that a Bounty = You did something bad. This is not true. The Bounty system is open because it acts as a form of enticement towards your demise. I.E. I someone ticks you off, you can now raise the Enticement for someone to take action against said person. Did you get scammed? Well you won't get a Killright for that, but now you can put ISK on their head so maybe one day they'll get War Decced, caught in unsecure space, or flat out Suicide ganked cause that guy caused enough grief on others that the pooled bounty on his head made it worth it for someone to take action for you.
Bounties = Retribution; now I know I've seen that word used somewhere just recently
eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3889
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:56:00 -
[342] - Quote
Thanks for the replies, still doesn't explain why Concord endorses and allows a negative security status character to place a bounty on a positive security status character without just cause.
Also the explanation of looking at it or just considering it as a suicide gank attempt is not right.
This new system is allowing players with large support / deep pockets to easily and or cheaply grief other players out of the game by allowing them to place and continue to place and or increase said bounty (which is now a big spotlight target) on the character, basically inciting others to continuously interrupt that characters game.
As for the 'Retribution' aspect, we already had that in game via personal contracts. It consisted of making a contract with Mercenary Corps to destroy or harass a character, ship, pod, corp, or alliance. Basically known as a 'Paid Hit' or 'Assassination'. This option, starting at 2 bill just for a single hit on a character, made it rather expensive and was long term to 'Grief' someone out of the game due to the price.
This new bounty system sounds more like a cheap exploitable 'Free For All' grief play option.
|
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
31
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 00:09:00 -
[343] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Thanks for the replies, still doesn't explain why Concord endorses and allows a negative security status character to place a bounty on a positive security status character without just cause.
Also the explanation of looking at it or just considering it as a suicide gank attempt is not right.
This new system is allowing players with large support / deep pockets to easily and or cheaply grief other players out of the game by allowing them to place and continue to place and or increase said bounty (which is now a big spotlight target) on the character, basically inciting others to continuously interrupt that characters game.
As for the 'Retribution' aspect, we already had that in game via personal contracts. It consisted of making a contract with Mercenary Corps to destroy or harass a character, ship, pod, corp, or alliance. Basically known as a 'Paid Hit' or 'Assassination'. This option, starting at 2 bill just for a single hit on a character, made it rather expensive and was long term to 'Grief' someone out of the game due to the price.
This new bounty system sounds more like a cheap exploitable 'Free For All' grief play option.
While I can understand that you feel this is a "grief" tool, it's not as detrimental as you think. Consider the fact that Eve is a PvP game in many ways. There's not just weapon style PvP, there's Market and resource PvP. Chances are if you do more than ship spin, you're involved in some sort of competition whether you realize it or not. Bounties is more of a Passive Aggressive tool. You may not think a bounty on your head is either Valid or Warranted, but again this system isn't apart of a Law system... Your statements point that you think it is. Bounties are person to person and thus Standings have no bearing. True I've seen all the random 100k bounties, I'm sure at some point everyone will have a bounty on them, making that "Wanted" stamp seem less alarming. As it's been pointed out, having a bounty on you does virtually nothing to directly "hurt" you. It's not like a Killright that can be activated at any time. It's not a War Dec, and nobody is going to wardec a corp of people with 100k bounties for 50 mil.
This is far from a Free for all. It's really not even a grief tool. You really should re-evaluate your outlook on Bounties. Just because you think it's not valid to place a bounty on someone, doesn't mean that the person who placed it didn't have a valid one. This is Eve, where anyone can do anything and CCP nurtures interactivity among players for both positive and negetive aspects. You'll need to adjust to that if you haven't already. Tbh, it's just not that big of a deal. eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3889
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 17:57:00 -
[344] - Quote
Thanks again for the reply.
I already know all the general meme's pertaining to Eve Online. I've played this game for over 4 1/2 years.
What I don't like is the fact that my +5.85 security status means nothing now and that characters with negative security status can now place bounty (endorsed by Concord) on characters with positive security status for no just cause other than to mess with their game, also known as grief play. Placing a bounty is basically placing a spotlight target on a character, bringing that character to the attention of other players, especially those who are gun happy in gaining a bounty payout.
The larger the bounty, the more attention the character will gain. Won't matter if it's in a high security 1.0 system, with a large enough bounty placed on the character, even a +10 security status character will constantly be attacked, thus interrupting the game play experience. With the current bounty payout system, that +10 character will end up paying at least 5 times more than what the negative security status character (who placed the bounty for spite) had originally paid.
Basically the constant ship lose and harassment / game interruption will end up driving / forcing that character out of the game. Now the negative character has accomplished his goal without actually firing a shot or even physically being involved.
This system is nothing more than a tool to easily and cheaply grief other players with anonymity. |
Riikard Thexder
Cup Of ConKrete
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 22:57:00 -
[345] - Quote
You would need a pretty high bounty on you 5+ sec stat toon for anyone to think about attacking you in HS. Your not going to be constantly attacked if you have a bounty. Your sec stat is a measure of your law abidding, you kill alot of rats etc Empire space likes you and you can fly around. You do criminal acts and it goes down till you cant 'live' in the cival empire space anymore. Has nothing really to do with Bounty.
Take this into consideration. In RL I am a nice law abidding citizen (I have a high Sec Stat), but I have payed some debt collectors to get some money of a perosn whom owes me alot of money (I put a bounty on him), now he is also a law abidding citizen (Has high Sec Stat). Now a drug dealing scum (Low Sec Stat) can still pay debt collectors to do the same job. wether or not the person that owes him money is a thieving junky scum(Low Sec Stat) or a fancy lawyer who likes the blow (High Sec Stat << tho this can be argued) |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3889
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 00:53:00 -
[346] - Quote
Thanks for the reply.... I'll have to fly around and see if I get noticed (attacked) or not.
DMC |
Joshua Spears
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 16:55:00 -
[347] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:I am not sure I get the kill right system, I don't use it now but just so I know.
* When someone assigns me permission to utilize a kill right can I activate it when I see them and start shooting? * If a kill right is activated then does that mean that if I fail to kill them like they dock or something is it gone for good or can you use it until a kill? * If you make it for anyone and a friend pops them in a shuttle is it gone or does it last the month?
I engaged a pilot I had kill rights on and i destroyed his ship but not the pod so I kep the rights but im still not sure because the gate guns fired on him because he fired first |
Ytamii Arval
Khan Exploration Society
28
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 03:14:00 -
[348] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Actually what I'd like to know is how can some assh....., er, character with negative security status be able to place a 100 mill bounty on my character that has +5.85 security status?
I worked long and hard to get that status which shows I'm a law abiding citizen of this community. Now it doesn't mean jackshit anymore. Thanks a lot.
Due to the continuous hunting / attacks by players looking to collect bounty pay and since the bounty payout is only 20% of said bounty based on ship / equipment loss or whatever the hell it is, my game play will now be constantly interrupted and no longer fun.
I am not a happy camper at all. I'm tired of people trying to force me to play this game their way. I did not join this game expressly for PvP, Factional Warfare, Corp/Alliance wars or to be a Pirate. I had plenty of that action from playing the mmo game - Dark Space. I joined this game to be an engineer doing exploration, invention and production while being able to travel anywhere at any time.
This whole bounty system is nothing more than an open invitation to grief players out of this game. Especially since a player in a large corp/alliance, due to having a much larger wallet, can constantly keep placing and or raising a bounty on a smaller player/corp/alliance, as well as entice or get more hunters in action.
Lately the past few expansions have done nothing except take large steps towards Eve Online becoming Grief Online.
DMC
Took the words out of my mouth. But they don't care what you say. Never have, never will. I just canceled my accounts, and told them why (didn't even use the "G" word).
THAT, they will hear. But it will take thousands doing this before they care. Thousands more before they change anything.
The system is an abomination of the sort you'd expect from a sociopathic four year old. Of course, I've played EVE for over six years, so seeing that go live didn't surprise me in the least. Got a feeling I won't be back ever, but we'll see... |
wolftin21
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.12 19:55:00 -
[349] - Quote
So my question is, If you pod someone with a bounty for his head, not the alliance or corp bounty, but his personal bounty, do you get the full amount or just a precentage? |
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