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Jalon Kaladreel
15 Minute Outliers Novus Dominatum
0
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Posted - 2012.11.14 04:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Want to make K-space strategy/tactics interesting again?
Kill local chat.
/bow
-Jal |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1133
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Posted - 2012.11.14 04:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
i think this idea is new a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Jalon Kaladreel
15 Minute Outliers Novus Dominatum
0
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Posted - 2012.11.14 05:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Totally, bro, totally. |
Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
62
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Posted - 2012.11.14 08:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Omg you've blown my mind! What an interesting and new idea! |
Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
34
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Posted - 2012.11.14 18:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Or they could change local to constellation wide. The perfect middle ground between current local and w-space. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1135
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Witchking Angmar wrote:Or they could change local to constellation wide. The perfect middle ground between current local and w-space. people would just evacuate the whole constellation around jita and robots would rule that area. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
728
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jalon Kaladreel wrote:Want to make K-space strategy/tactics interesting again?
Kill local chat.
/bow
-Jal
You need to provide an intel gathering mechanic and tools to share that intel before you completely remove the only "effective" intel gathering system from the game. |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
21
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
while this is not a new idea i still fully support it as having been a WH pvper and hermet i got used to no local, useing Dscan, useing probes and being cautious.
I have always wanted local gone so we can use constilation chat insted. only exception to this shoudl be the main faction tradehubs. Jita dodixie Amarr.. and umm.. i dont even think minmatar have a trade hub do they? |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
21
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Jalon Kaladreel wrote:Want to make K-space strategy/tactics interesting again?
Kill local chat.
/bow
-Jal You need to provide an intel gathering mechanic and tools to share that intel before you completely remove the only "effective" intel gathering system from the game.
Dscan with appropreate overview settings. noob. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
728
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Jalon Kaladreel wrote:Want to make K-space strategy/tactics interesting again?
Kill local chat.
/bow
-Jal You need to provide an intel gathering mechanic and tools to share that intel before you completely remove the only "effective" intel gathering system from the game. Dscan with appropreate overview settings. noob.
I'm very competent at the use of dscan.
Dscan is an excellent tool for detecting and locating non-cloaked entities near you. However, in my opinion, an effective intel should provide much more! It should help you identify pilots and what ships they are flying prior to them landing on grid with you. It should allow you share that intel with fleet members, and it should not give you carpel tunnel. It should also require some work to gather intel. You shouldn't just enter system and be given a list of all pilots in local. Intel gathering should start from moderately balanced position, so two groups have the same means/tools to gain intel on each other, and then any intel imbalances come from piltos actively gathering intel. Dscan, by itself, is insufficient!
This is my version of a decent intel system.
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Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
1
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Posted - 2012.11.15 00:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Seranova Farreach wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Jalon Kaladreel wrote:Want to make K-space strategy/tactics interesting again?
Kill local chat.
/bow
-Jal You need to provide an intel gathering mechanic and tools to share that intel before you completely remove the only "effective" intel gathering system from the game. Dscan with appropreate overview settings. noob. I'm very competent at the use of dscan. Dscan is an excellent tool for detecting and locating non-cloaked entities near you. However, in my opinion, an effective intel should provide much more! It should help you identify pilots and what ships they are flying prior to them landing on grid with you. It should allow you share that intel with fleet members, and it should not give you carpel tunnel. It should also require some work to gather intel. You shouldn't just enter system and be given a list of all pilots in local. Intel gathering should start from moderately balanced position, so two groups have the same means/tools to gain intel on each other, and then any intel imbalances come from piltos actively gathering intel. Dscan, by itself, is insufficient! This is my version of a decent intel system.
Combat probes already tell you what kind of ship a person is flying without being on grid with them. And they take some work. AND both groups have an equal chance to scan down the other first (sort of. Slight home field advantage, as there should be). That was easy!
As for pilot identity, I don't see how a sensor could realistically figure that out from 600,000,000 kilometers away if the person didn't want to be identified. That seems pretty ridiculous. A bag of meat is a bag of meat - there's no way it could figure out your facial features or whatever to distinguish you from another person (unlike the thermal signature of a ship, etc.)
Nor do you need that information from a game design perspective. If you're running a responsible and bang-up corporation or alliance, then you should KNOW what people are up to, or be able to easily implement communication systems by which friendly pilots can let you know they are entering a system that your group watches over (to save you the trouble of investigating). Not knowing if a mysterious pilot in the system is friendly or not is your own fault.
I say you should have to indeed be ON GRID with them to know their identity. Maybe not even then, if they choose to hide it (instead, within the game's "looking distance" which is 100km or something). |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
733
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Posted - 2012.11.15 00:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Seranova Farreach wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Jalon Kaladreel wrote:Want to make K-space strategy/tactics interesting again?
Kill local chat.
/bow
-Jal You need to provide an intel gathering mechanic and tools to share that intel before you completely remove the only "effective" intel gathering system from the game. Dscan with appropreate overview settings. noob. I'm very competent at the use of dscan. Dscan is an excellent tool for detecting and locating non-cloaked entities near you. However, in my opinion, an effective intel should provide much more! It should help you identify pilots and what ships they are flying prior to them landing on grid with you. It should allow you share that intel with fleet members, and it should not give you carpel tunnel. It should also require some work to gather intel. You shouldn't just enter system and be given a list of all pilots in local. Intel gathering should start from moderately balanced position, so two groups have the same means/tools to gain intel on each other, and then any intel imbalances come from piltos actively gathering intel. Dscan, by itself, is insufficient! This is my version of a decent intel system. Combat probes already tell you what kind of ship a person is flying without being on grid with them. And they take some work. AND both groups have an equal chance to scan down the other first (sort of. Slight home field advantage, as there should be). That was easy! As for pilot identity, I don't see how a sensor could realistically figure that out from 600,000,000 kilometers away if the person didn't want to be identified. That seems pretty ridiculous. A bag of meat is a bag of meat - there's no way it could figure out your facial features or whatever to distinguish you from another person (unlike the thermal signature of a ship, etc.) Nor do you need that information from a game design perspective. If you're running a responsible and bang-up corporation or alliance, then you should KNOW what people are up to, or be able to easily implement communication systems by which friendly pilots can let you know they are entering a system that your group watches over (to save you the trouble of investigating). Not knowing if a mysterious pilot in the system is friendly or not is your own fault. I say you should have to indeed be ON GRID with them to know their identity. Maybe not even then, if they choose to hide it (instead, within the game's "looking distance" which is 100km or something). Edit: People could choose to carry and activate transponders if they wished to, which would broadcast everything about them upon entering the system. This would allow alliance members to announce themselves voluntarily when entering your protected alliance system, to ease the strain on intel people. (Rather than "not blue shoot it" you'd have "not transpondere'd investigate/shoot it")
1.) DScan does a much better job of identifying ships than combat probes.... combat probes need to be zoned in to get identification....
2.) How do you know when a pilot enters system to investigate it? Do you just launch a scan probe and scan every 10 seconds in case a new signature pops up? Do you just spam dscan every 10 seconds to see if a new ship appears on dscan? Any mechanic that gives you carpel tunnel just to get basic intel is broken... Hell, every SciFi fantasy out there uses machines to scan the region and issue automatic warnings when there is a new "signature" out there. Zeroing in on that signature, identifying it, should be part of gathering intel on it... but you need a basic starting point that is automated. Local chat provides too much instantly, but removing local, without providing some new basic automatic scanner that lets you know to start looking is just ********!!
3.) How do you think the U.S. military identifies a Hostile plane from a friendly one?? And this is the future.... I think there is wiggle room to explain how you can remotely identify a ship and pilot without needing to be right next to them!
4.) Go read my thread: That is how an intel system works.... Removing local, without implementing a viable intel system, is a terrible idea! |
Jalon Kaladreel
15 Minute Outliers Novus Dominatum
1
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Posted - 2012.11.15 02:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Jalon Kaladreel wrote:Want to make K-space strategy/tactics interesting again?
Kill local chat.
/bow
-Jal You need to provide an intel gathering mechanic and tools to share that intel before you completely remove the only "effective" intel gathering system from the game. Dscan with appropreate overview settings. noob.
^ |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
722
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Posted - 2012.11.15 02:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
I also endorse a form of intel gathering.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112964&find=unread
Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
GizzyBoy
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
21
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Posted - 2012.11.15 13:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
game lore says because people use gates they know your in system, concord still run the gates even if they arnt in null low etc.
How ever people titan bridging, using black ops or cyno/wh connections could technically be excluded from local until they jump through a gate to the next system. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1785
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Posted - 2012.11.15 13:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lets make scum in unknown space work for their kills again....
Give whs persistent local Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
726
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Lets make scum in unknown space work for their kills again....
Give whs persistent local Wouldn't work, they would AFK cloak themselves, to say nothing of each other.
Maybe that's the solution, keep listing pilots who logged off in systems for two hours after they logged.... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Captain CarlCosmogasm
Cosmogasm
3
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
kill local, make d-scan automatic, improve d-scan graphics/system over all. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
2
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:1.) DScan does a much better job of identifying ships than combat probes.... combat probes need to be zoned in to get identification....
2.) How do you know when a pilot enters system to investigate it? Do you just launch a scan probe and scan every 10 seconds in case a new signature pops up? Do you just spam dscan every 10 seconds to see if a new ship appears on dscan? Any mechanic that gives you carpel tunnel just to get basic intel is broken... Hell, every SciFi fantasy out there uses machines to scan the region and issue automatic warnings when there is a new "signature" out there. Zeroing in on that signature, identifying it, should be part of gathering intel on it... but you need a basic starting point that is automated. Local chat provides too much instantly, but removing local, without providing some new basic automatic scanner that lets you know to start looking is just ********!!
3.) How do you think the U.S. military identifies a Hostile plane from a friendly one?? And this is the future.... I think there is wiggle room to explain how you can remotely identify a ship and pilot without needing to be right next to them!
4.) Go read my thread: That is how an intel system works.... Removing local, without implementing a viable intel system, is a terrible idea! I think it's fine for the game to tell you how many people are in the system. Just not anything else without dscanning (within 14 AU) or combat probing (further than 14 AU)
And I'm guessing that the US military either uses encoded transponders to identify themselves in less critical situations, or they just know when and where they deployed their own planes...
Both would be perfectly viable solutions here. I mentioned the possible game mechanic of choosing to have an actively broadcasting transponder up above, and corps/alliances who wish to lock down a whole system should have the burden of having to keep track of where their own members are. If you want to do that as a corp, then you need to be organized and disciplined enough to have everybody fit on their transponders before entering the system, OR announce themselves in chat, etc.
I did read your thread. it seemed magical and overly hand-holdy. if you just had an alt in a ship 4 AU from each major gate (or if your system is smaller than about 10AU across), then it would function exactly the same as it does now with those ideas, which defeats the whole purpose. It does NOT make intel harder at all. It just makes intel harder for people who can't afford 4 throwaway alts to run on second monitors all the time... That reinforces the status quo if anything, rather than mixing things up. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
727
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:I think it's fine for the game to tell you how many people are in the system. Just not anything else without dscanning (within 14 AU) or combat probing (further than 14 AU) Nahh, but I'll counter offer by saying you should be able to scan the energy signature of a gate to tell how often it was activated in the past hour.
Knowing how many are in the system as a constantly aware total is still OP. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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