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F'elch
Wall Street Trading
23
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Posted - 2012.10.18 09:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why all the hate for high sec? You know how I use high sec? I run missions there and I sell my stuff there so I can spend the ISK on ships and then go PVP with them in low sec and sometimes in null if I feel like I definitely want to lose my ship instead of just maybe. Then, when I run out of ISK I go back to high sec to get some more dosh.
Also at the moment I am farming FW for more money but we all know that little gravy train will soon reach its last stop.
If high seec got nerfed, it would be a lot harder for me to get the green I need to fund the PVP we love and that this game is really about. Making it take longer to earn that dolla will only mean I have to grind more for less, and lose ships less often. We need taergets right? And targets require ISK to buy ships so you can blow them up.
OK, I know there are those who just stay in high sec and horde their stuff and faction fit their mission tengus and what have you but no matter how much you nerf high sec the risk adverse will still remain there. No amount of stick will get them into low but maybe the right type of carrot.
Anyway, I'm a casual player. No time for null and the logistics of living there so ISK grinding there is not an option. And to be honest I CBA with CTA, killboard etc so it is not for me.
All I want to do is PVP and grind as little as possible to make that happen. High sec ISK sources are important to help me and others like me fund that lifestyle so please don't nerf them. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1315
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Posted - 2012.10.18 09:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
You don't pvp. Sometimes, you spare enough from your wallet to fit a frigate and see what all the fuss is about, but you don't pvp. You run missions and farm plexes in your stabbed Incursus, but you don't pvp. Your whole reason for existence in this game is to see that number in the wallet window grow larger and larger.
You're not fooling anyone. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
207
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Posted - 2012.10.18 09:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
F'elch wrote:Why all the hate for high sec? You know how I use high sec? I run missions there and I sell my stuff there so I can spend the ISK on ships and then go PVP with them in low sec and sometimes in null if I feel like I definitely want to lose my ship instead of just maybe. Then, when I run out of ISK I go back to high sec to get some more dosh.
Bold is mine as it basically answers your question.
You make money in High Sec and then go blow stuff up in Low/Null.
What you SHOULD be doing is making money in Low/Null and then blowing stuff up in Low/Null. This is the ideal world:
You Rat/Mission/Whatever in Low/Null You are a target for PvP gangs Occasionally you die making isk (Making PvPers happy as they get some kills) HOWEVER the amount of isk you're making is so much more then High Sec it makes up for the ship being blown up At the end of the month you've still made more money after losses then in High Sec. (Meaning you're happy as you can spend money on whatever).
This way Low/Null becomes your home, rather then a big PvP arena. When it is just a big PVP arena it means that 50% of the sodding Galaxy is only being used when people want to fight other gangs, which is why it's so hard to find people to kill sometimes in Null.
The fact you earn all your money in one place then go somewhere else to fight is the big part of the problem, you spend most your time where you can't be attacked then go somewhere you can when you're ready, but if everyone else is doing the same is it any wonder that everyone misses each other? |
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
23
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Posted - 2012.10.18 09:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:You don't pvp. Sometimes, you spare enough from your wallet to fit a frigate and see what all the fuss is about, but you don't pvp. You run missions and farm plexes in your stabbed Incursus, but you don't pvp. Your whole reason for existence in this game is to see that number in the wallet window grow larger and larger.
You're not fooling anyone. Sorry, you are wrong and my wallet see-saws between OK and pitiful. But I know the type of person you are talking about and I say each to their own. You can take from this game what you want. |
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
23
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:F'elch wrote:Why all the hate for high sec? You know how I use high sec? I run missions there and I sell my stuff there so I can spend the ISK on ships and then go PVP with them in low sec and sometimes in null if I feel like I definitely want to lose my ship instead of just maybe. Then, when I run out of ISK I go back to high sec to get some more dosh.
Bold is mine as it basically answers your question. You make money in High Sec and then go blow stuff up in Low/Null. What you SHOULD be doing is making money in Low/Null and then blowing stuff up in Low/Null. This is the ideal world: You Rat/Mission/Whatever in Low/Null You are a target for PvP gangs Occasionally you die making isk (Making PvPers happy as they get some kills) HOWEVER the amount of isk you're making is so much more then High Sec it makes up for the ship being blown up At the end of the month you've still made more money after losses then in High Sec. (Meaning you're happy as you can spend money on whatever). This way Low/Null becomes your home, rather then a big PvP arena. When it is just a big PVP arena it means that 50% of the sodding Galaxy is only being used when people want to fight other gangs, which is why it's so hard to find people to kill sometimes in Null. The fact you earn all your money in one place then go somewhere else to fight is the big part of the problem, you spend most your time where you can't be attacked then go somewhere you can when you're ready, but if everyone else is doing the same is it any wonder that everyone misses each other? OK then this is a farily compelling argument. And I forgot to mention, I also do low sec exploration. This has resulted in several lost ships and also in my plexes being intruded upon by people who have nicked the nice loot drops. Well, that's low sec and that's the way it goes, no worries.
But then I'm like, OK, I've spent all day doing these plexes and getting the escalations and now it is for nothing. So, I can't afford my PVP ships so I need to grind some more. Where am I going to go? High sec. Guaranteed income, low to zero risk, and I haven't wasted my Sunday afternoon.
I agree with everyone that FW is broken. Too much ISK coming from this. But low sec needs better income for the risk involved if people are going to go there to grind.
Let's face it, as you say, low sec IS a PVP arena. But I also ask what is wrong with that? If everyone there is there for PVP then no easy ganks, you need skills to win, you need to put ISK into your ship to make it effective. If I tried to make all my ISK in low sec it would take a VERY long time to get the same money I would in high sec as you are constantly trying to avoid other players. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1577
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
People use the term "bears" for everything these days... "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
23
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:People use the term "bears" for everything these days... Yeah, I didn't coin the phrase, it's been around for a while. Null dwellers then, whatever. You know what I mean. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1770
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nerf all bears. |
Alice Saki
12204
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
I saw a Bear once, it was stealing a picnic basket ^_^ Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5185
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
F'elch wrote:If I tried to make all my ISK in low sec it would take a VERY long time to get the same money I would in high sec as you are constantly trying to avoid other players.
You realize that the solution involves making it worthwhile to go through all that trouble, right?
But it doesn't involve buffing null/low income - it involves nerfing hisec income because uninterrupted ISK printing is bad for the game. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting.
fofofofofo |
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1317
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:I saw a Bear once, it was stealing a picnic basket ^_^ This approach has served me well in dealing with bears in EVE over the years. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
23
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Andski wrote:F'elch wrote:If I tried to make all my ISK in low sec it would take a VERY long time to get the same money I would in high sec as you are constantly trying to avoid other players. You realize that the solution involves making it worthwhile to go through all that trouble, right? But it doesn't involve buffing null/low income - it involves nerfing hisec income because uninterrupted ISK printing is bad for the game. I use high sec to make ISK, yes, but I pee that ISK away faster than I can make it. And the amount I make is miniscule compared to the clever market traders etc. How do you nerf them? |
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
23
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
And please stop trying to derail the thread with this bear crap. I am putting forward a decent argument for NOT nerfing high sec as it funds putting me, a rather poor combat pilot, gladly in the sights of pirates, PVPers and general griefers. I play this game for PVP and I want the ISK grind to be as painless and quick as possible so I can spend more time doing that.
And by the way, I don't sell PLEX to fund it either. Not because I don't have the RL money but because I don't want to spend any more than my -ú10 a month on this game. I know I am "doing it wrong" if I can't pay for my game time with ISK, but as I have already explained, I grind as little as possible to fund my PVP. All my ISK goes on skills, ships and mods. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
182
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
F'elch wrote: How do you nerf them? By nerfing ISK. |
Ravnik
Choke-Hold
2025
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cant people just quit moaning about what the other side are doing? You wanna live in null, do it. You wanna live in low, do it. You wanna live in high, do it. Just stop whining that the other has it better than you. If you think the grass is greener, then go move there ffs You lose it here, you're in a world of hurt....-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5186
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ravnik wrote:Cant people just quit moaning about what the other side are doing? You wanna live in null, do it. You wanna live in low, do it. You wanna live in high, do it. Just stop whining that the other has it better than you. If you think the grass is greener, then go move there ffs
Why do you think that hisec needs its broken risk/reward? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting.
fofofofofo |
TharOkha
0asis Group
111
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Andski wrote: But it doesn't involve buffing null/low income - it involves nerfing hisec income because uninterrupted ISK printing is bad for the game.
No, no nerfing to income. You have to realize that many PvPers earning in hisec and spending in low/null sec.
But i agree that the method of rewarding should be changed. No Bounty for NPCs, no loot. Just LP income and thats it. This should be also implemented for low/null npc exept that those NPCs should drop loot. Voil+í - isk faucet no more. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Ravnik
Choke-Hold
2027
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
No i think its because people just cant stop moaning about stuff. If things got changed then they would find something else to whine about. You lose it here, you're in a world of hurt....-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5186
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:No, no nerfing to income. You have to realize that many PvPers earning in hisec and spending in low/null sec.
But i agree that the method of rewarding should be changed. No Bounty for NPCs, no loot. Just LP income and thats it. This should be also implemented for low/null npc exept that those NPCs should drop loot.
So why do you want another nail in the coffin of PvE outside of hisec? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting.
fofofofofo |
baltec1
Bat Country
2489
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
We arn't asking to nerf highsec, just buff the risk. |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5186
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We arn't asking to nerf highsec, just buff the risk.
The problem is that hisec bears hide behind mechanics meant to protect actual newbies and demand that CCP give them high-reward PvE activities commensurate with their skillpoint level - if they were going to make hisec risky to live in based on the present reward levels, then they'd have to do away with CONCORD and even faction navies in their entirety. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting.
fofofofofo |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4936
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Andski wrote: But it doesn't involve buffing null/low income - it involves nerfing hisec income because uninterrupted ISK printing is bad for the game.
No, no nerfing to income. You have to realize that many PvPers earning in hisec and spending in low/null sec.
That's exactly the problem. PvPers who operate in 0.0 can't make as good a living in 0.0 as they can in hi-sec, because 0.0 is so gimped for everything except shooting red crosses.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
TharOkha
0asis Group
111
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Andski wrote:TharOkha wrote:No, no nerfing to income. You have to realize that many PvPers earning in hisec and spending in low/null sec.
But i agree that the method of rewarding should be changed. No Bounty for NPCs, no loot. Just LP income and thats it. This should be also implemented for low/null npc exept that those NPCs should drop loot. So why do you want another nail in the coffin of PvE outside of hisec?
I just wrote that... low/null would be the only NPCs that drop loot. Named modules etc. T1 modules can be manufactured by players, named modules only from low/null loot.... so no "nail in the coffin" for low/null PvE. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Jim Hazard
Scrubfleet
32
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
F'elch wrote:If I tried to make all my ISK in low sec it would take a VERY long time to get the same money I would in high sec as you are constantly trying to avoid other players.
And there you come up with the best argument yourself, why high sec needs to be nerfed.
Also..... if you really want to make money outside of high sec and do not have that much time you could always try to create or join a smaller corp with the plan to live in low sec.... but wait... no1 is doing that anymore because its not worth the effort. Why join a corp and trying to secure an area to make decent ISK when you can as well just do it solo under the protection of high sec.
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baltec1
Bat Country
2489
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Andski wrote:baltec1 wrote:We arn't asking to nerf highsec, just buff the risk. The problem is that hisec bears hide behind mechanics meant to protect actual newbies and demand that CCP give them high-reward PvE activities commensurate with their skillpoint level - if they were going to make hisec risky to live in based on the present reward levels, then they'd have to do away with CONCORD and even faction navies in their entirety.
Nah I can think of a few ways to inject a bit of meaningfull risk into high sec activities.
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Cede Forster
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
120
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
highsec is essential "newbie island" gone wrong
newbie island is a place where people can learn how things work, reduced risk, reward is only the experience you and some currency to prepare you for the rest
if you make newbie island to attractive, people will stay there, slay the "dumb enemy who cant defend himself" again and again because there is no point to leaving it. fighting bigger enemies at more risk with same reward just seems .. wrong and there you are, it is.
the state of high sec is the reason for people staying there, because the rewards are almost the same and the risk next to non-existent.
just outsource the newbie island to some special wormholes where they learn **** and then push them into the cold water.
remove concord entirely and buff faction police a bit. instead concord puts bounties on people who break the law, making it a player profession to hunt "criminals down" |
Rollin Forties
School of Applied Street Knowledge
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 10:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
I wanted to report the OPs name as offensive, but I don't have the game installed. Can I create a petition on the forums? |
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
23
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Posted - 2012.10.18 10:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jim Hazard wrote:F'elch wrote:If I tried to make all my ISK in low sec it would take a VERY long time to get the same money I would in high sec as you are constantly trying to avoid other players. And there you come up with the best argument yourself, why high sec needs to be nerfed. Also..... if you really want to make money outside of high sec and do not have that much time you could always try to create or join a smaller corp with the plan to live in low sec.... but wait... no1 is doing that anymore because its not worth the effort. Why join a corp and trying to secure an area to make decent ISK when you can as well just do it solo under the protection of high sec. If I could dive into low sec, do an hour of exploration, while dodging other players and come out of it with a wedge of ISK significantly higher than I can earn in high then I would do it. If you made enough that getting caught and killed or otherwise prevented from completing 1 or 2 times out of 3 was worth it then people would do it. But you're pretty much guaranteed to get ganked if you try to do anything in low in a PVE ship.
PVE/PVP fits being mutually exlusive apart from a few rare exceptions is another thread entirely.
Anyway, I mostly fly solo (hence the constant need for new ships) which is why what I do works for me. Yeah, yeah, I know, Its a multiplayer game. It's also a sandbox, so you can play how you like. To me multiplayer means you share the world with other real people. Doesn't mean you have to team up with them. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5186
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 11:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:I just wrote that... low/null would be the only NPCs that drop loot. Named modules etc. T1 modules can be manufactured by players, named modules only from low/null loot.... so no "nail in the coffin" for low/null PvE.
Uh, yeah it is, because you're adding the requirement of a Noctis alt to the equation, and the meta modules would be worthless within a week anyway.
Remember how CCP tried this one time with a failed project called "the drone regions" and how that resulted in titans' mineral costs being around 30-40bn? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Federation posting cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online posting.
fofofofofo |
F'elch
Wall Street Trading
23
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Posted - 2012.10.18 11:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rollin Forties wrote:I wanted to report the OPs name as offensive, but I don't have the game installed. Can I create a petition on the forums? Uh... it's a name. If this is an attempt to annoy me, it won't work. This is my trading alt. Makes no matter to me if he's called F'elch or Gallente Citizen 1209173465680. |
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