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McBrideCZ
FireStar Inc Curatores Veritatis Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.10.03 08:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I really appreciate speed buff of the cruisers but something bothers me. Lets check speed and HP of proposed new cruisers.
Attack cruisers:
Omen: 225 m/s 4500 raw HP Caracal: 225 m/s 4400 raw HP Thorax: 235 m/s 4500 raw HP Stabber 285 m/s 4300 raw HP
Why is stabber 25% faster than other attack cruisers when keeping almost the same HP? Basicly, its T1 ship with 3 bonuses ( 5% firing speed, 7,5% falloff and 25% speed bonus build into the hull). It will be (as always Minmatar) most flown ship from cruisers due to be able to dictate range of the combat and retreat whenever you want. Speed is the most important factor in solo and small scale PvP, thats why armor is much less usefull than shield in solo/small scale.
Combat cruisers:
Maler: 205 m/s 5000 raw HP Moa: 195 m/s 4800 raw HP Vexor: 215 m/s 5100 raw HP Rupture: 240 m/s 4900 raw HP
Situation is much more balanced in combat cruisers class. Maler and Moa being slowest but with highest EHP (due to 5% resist bonus) but you will hardly kill Rupture as it will be able to kite you or escape from you. And again, its much faster (15-20%) than other cruisers with almost the same HP. And it can be shield tanked for being faster.
My proposal is to decrease speed of Stabber to 250-255 m/s and Rupture to 225-230 OR lower their HP significantly (4000 Hp for Stabber, 4400 HP for Rupture). Currently proposed changes for cruisers are giving all aces to Minamatar.
Fastest? check No cap needed for guns? check Same HP as others? check Most agile? check Can shield tank? check Comparable DPS? check
Please, CCP, consider some changes in cruisers again. |
Kai'rae Saarkus
Ganja Labs Exodus.
0
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Posted - 2012.10.03 09:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
As it stands, I see no reason to fly a Thorax over a Vexor or a Rupture.
Rupture will have more tank and more mobility than a Thorax.
Vexor will have more tank and more DPS than a Thorax.
Shield Vexor will have comparable mobility to a Shield Thorax because it's Mass is c. 100K less, and won't have as severe Cap issues as the Shield Thorax. |
King Rothgar
Black Watch Guard Gl0rious Bastards
309
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Posted - 2012.10.03 09:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good catch, I didn't even notice that. I agree that either minmatar ships needs to be only slightly faster (say 5%) or they need their HP nerfed massively to compensate (how about by 25% to compensate for 25% better speed?). Of course, this is hardly a new problem. A vagabond is currently nearly twice as fast as the fastest non-minmatar cruiser hull. It doesn't exactly suffer in tank, dps or range projection compared to the rest either. The Troll is trolling. |
Sang-in Tiers
Hedion University Amarr Empire
43
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Posted - 2012.10.03 09:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Feels bad being an Amarr pilot, "yay I can actually use my weapons" while the others zoom around and blast stuff to pieces at higher speeds (mostly) and ~equal 'hp'. (( |
McBrideCZ
FireStar Inc Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.10.03 09:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sang-in Tiers wrote:Feels bad being an Amarr pilot, "yay I can actually use my weapons" while the others zoom around and blast stuff to pieces at higher speeds (mostly) and ~equal 'hp'. ((
Exactly my thoughts. What is Amarrian armor tank good for when everyone else can kite you or escape you....while being as durable as you. |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
46
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Posted - 2012.10.03 10:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
They seem to have a minmatar blinker going atm.. what minmatar are OP? no way there not |
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
1
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Posted - 2012.10.03 14:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
McBrideCZ wrote: My proposal is to decrease speed of Stabber to 250-255 m/s and Rupture to 225-230 OR lower their HP significantly (4000 Hp for Stabber, 4400 HP for Rupture). Currently proposed changes for cruisers are giving all aces to Minamatar.
Your proposal is quite reasonable.
+1 |
McBrideCZ
FireStar Inc Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
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Posted - 2012.10.04 09:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bump. I dont want to let this topic drown in the depths of forum... |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
84
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Posted - 2012.10.04 09:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Q: why is the stabber so fast? A: see speed tanking doctrines
Q: bumping allowed in forums? A: no. see forum rules.
/thread |
McBrideCZ
FireStar Inc Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
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Posted - 2012.10.04 15:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:Q: why is the stabber so fast? A: see speed tanking doctrines
But then...why does Stabber have so many HP when its speed tanker? Its as durable as other cruisers AND 25% faster. Why?? This is the thing that bothers me. Which ship would you choose? Good DPS and reasonable HP or the same ship with all atributes above but much faster? |
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Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
247
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Posted - 2012.10.04 15:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why shouldn't it? Ships are not soley balanced round base hp and speed. The stabber loses damage potential in exchange for its speed, it only has 4 bonused hi slots and the smallest drone bay. I don't know why ccp insist on giving it the 5m3 drone bay it does have or 2 bonus launcher slots but even with those the stabber will always be doing less dps than the others (it will always be operating deep in autocannon falloff, otherwise its speed is uselesss and assuming you fit LSEs the launcher slots won't come to much). It also has the weakest electronics of the cruisers (except scan res).
If the stabber does turn out to be a bit op on sisi (i don't think it will) ccp should knock off a launcher high and the silly odd drone reducing its dps even further. |
Griffin Omanid
IntersteIIar Moneymakers
13
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Posted - 2012.10.04 16:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Why shouldn't it? Ships are not soley balanced round base hp and speed. The stabber loses damage potential in exchange for its speed, it only has 4 bonused hi slots and the smallest drone bay. I don't know why ccp insist on giving it the 5m3 drone bay it does have or 2 bonus launcher slots but even with those the stabber will always be doing less dps than the others (it will always be operating deep in autocannon falloff, otherwise its speed is uselesss and assuming you fit LSEs the launcher slots won't come to much). It also has the weakest electronics of the cruisers (except scan res).
If the stabber does turn out to be a bit op on sisi (i don't think it will) ccp should knock off a launcher high and the silly odd drone reducing its dps even further.
I would agree to this, let-¦s wait until the changings will be tested on servers.
As far as i know most Minmatar have only high shield HP but lesser armour HP and the worst hull HP. Also a shield tanker is screwed as soon as his shield gets below 25%, while an armour tanker can still be a thread when his armour is more or less broken.
You are so far right that speed is important for not getting hit or dictating the range, but their are also other important factors for tanking like shield regeneration, sig or agility. Ok, agility is quit good at Minmatar ships, but the other two are not so well. |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
154
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Posted - 2012.10.04 16:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Why do all the cruisers have the same amount of cap recharge?
Minmatar guns don't use any cap while amarr uses a lot of cap.
Especially now that the maller no longer has cap reduction bonus I can see some issues.
Amarr capacitor superior to other races while minmatar should be inferior. Increase the cap recharge rate of amarr while decreasing minmatar. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
252
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Posted - 2012.10.04 17:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
There's a problem with adding shields and armor together, in that you're only going to tank one of them, not both.
Omen: 1200 shield 1700 armor Caracal: 1700 shield 1200 armor Thorax: 1200 shield 1600 armor Stabber: 1500 shield 1400 armor
Maller: 1200 shield 2100 armor Moa: 2100 shield 1200 armor Vexor: 1100 shield 2000 armor Rupture: 1500 shield 1800 armor
If you go with the bigger base number, the Stabber and Rupture have significantly less HP. |
Crispin McTarmac
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.10.04 17:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
The new stabber seems fine. It may be fast and very tough, but look at it's DPS. Not so impressive even before you consider that it will usually be in falloff. The rupture does confuse me though- who is ever going to use both of those launchers? And why does it have more drones than the maller, when amarr are supposed to be ahead in drone technology? |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
71
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Posted - 2012.10.04 17:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Minmatar always had relatively large dronebay as a part of their splitweapon heritage, see (old) Bellicose, Cyclone, Typhoon |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
59
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Posted - 2012.10.04 18:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:Minmatar always had relatively large dronebay as a part of their splitweapon heritage, see (old) Bellicose, Cyclone, Typhoon
Yep but they should tone it down a bit as they are increasing amarr drone abilities why can't they optimise the minnie hulls weapon systems why do they have to have it both ways with no sensible reducement/sacrifice all the other races have to sacrifice something but minnie never do they just get more every-time another race does so when will they actually balance them instead of always buffing them? |
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