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Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.08.23 19:23:00 -
[61]
I just glanced at the title of this thread and thought it was:
THE REMOVAL OF ICE MINING IN HI-SEC IS PURELY TO FACILITATE SEX STORE *****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.23 20:26:00 -
[62]
How funny is this game where the company running it listens only to 20% of its playerbase -------- Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.08.23 21:13:00 -
[63]
Ice mining should be removed for humanitarian concerns. Did you know 8 ice mining players a day slip into a vegatative coma? Were you aware that 14 players a day are rushed to the emergency room due to falling asleep and bumping their heads?
Ice mining kills!
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Helena Vexar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 21:26:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 23/08/2011 21:27:03
Originally by: Bongo Debbie This is a no brainer really.
CCP have made an arbitrary decision to move ALL Ice mining out to 0.0 space, which is inaccessible to the 80% (or so) of people that choose to live in Empire where they are free from griefing.
The ramifications are huge. People that choose to live out of POS in an effort to avoid use of stations wherever possible, due to the pointless changes of Incarna and the poisonous addition of RMT in the NEX store (which is the only reason to have a station environment in the first place), will be getting the shaft. These people will not be able to reasonably afford to operate out of POS and inevitably will be forced back into using stations.
It is my belief that this is little more than a cash grab attempt by CCP to get more people using the highly unpopular station environments.
Maybe it has to do with the fact that miners are carebears and nobody has any real incentive to actually leave high sec and give pirates a real purpose? Maybe it has to do with cutting back on botters and afk miners? Im all for them moving all profitable mining period out to low and null sec. The days of miners never leaving high sec need to be numbered
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Helena Vexar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 21:30:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kitty McKitty Edited by: Kitty McKitty on 23/08/2011 10:35:47
Originally by: Alina Dumb
Can you explain how Ice Mining is tied to the NeX store?
She already did but obviously you fail at reading. Regardless, looking at your post history you are a complete waste of space and if you attempt to derail or otherwise disrupt this thread I will report you.
EDIT: for clarity : Get out.
Every post you make on ever thread you are a complete asshat, you GTFO
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Kitty McKitty
Gallente In Praise Of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.08.23 21:36:00 -
[66]
I know plenty of hardcore mining operatives that don't just afk mine in high sec and cry when their greedy mode hulks get suicided. You don't see them talking on the forums because they are not moronic enough to bring themselves to the attention of the gankers.
Not all PVE is carebearing, sometimes stuff just has to go down you know? I actually mined my first PVP Megathron all by myself (well, you know my share of an op or two). I then let the alliance provide me with the rest I'm still in 0.0 but just for extreme trading ~~~
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Helena Vexar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 21:51:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Helena Vexar on 23/08/2011 21:55:43 Edited by: Helena Vexar on 23/08/2011 21:55:06
Originally by: Mrs Pants
Originally by: Lu'Marat
Originally by: Bongo Debbie
The troll has been reported and the thread will be looking much betteronce CCP have paid a visit. Unfortunately I can't do much about the hair although this is a bit rich looking at your portrait.
Pot calling the kettle black. Your OP is wild, provocative speculation based on (quite likely deliberate) misinformation. Not only do you fail to back up your claims, you jump into everyone's face who calls you out for it.
If you really want to have a discussion about this, I'm sure you know perfectly well this is not how you do it. Thus: Troll. Tip of the hat for chutzpah, though.
Interesting to see that you think a statement about hair is "calling her up on her original post". I see the point of the OP though. Turning the CQ off is not pretty. Having it on tempts people to make nex purchases to attempt to improve on what they see. Removing ice from high sec should impact the cost of running a high sec pos, so living there should become untenable and there for people will be forced to live in stations. Step back to the CQ turning off and repeat as required until you see the link makes sense or mash head against keyboard for effect.
On another note; I am jealous of the hair. Who's your stylist? Trinnie?
Everyone staying in high sec all the time should be made undesirable! What do you not get about this concept! As of now there is little reason for anyone to even venture out of high sec! There are people who have never even been to low or null sec! It completely undermines the pvp aspect of Eve. This is not a ploy to make people buy vanity items, but it is more a ploy to move the profitable work out to more risky space so people actually have incentive to go there! As of right now low and null sec are barren because nobody has any reason to go there.
Let me ask you this, when was the last time you ever saw a miner mining in low or null sec? I have never seen that in all my years playing in eve. Thats ridiculous. The time of afk miners and bots is over people. Grow a backbone
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.08.23 22:04:00 -
[68]
CCP:We may move some ice mining feature from high to null Bongo Debbie: They are going to move all ice mining from high to null!
CCP: We may let high-sec missions drop lower value loots, and make null missions drops more Bongo Debbie: They are going to remove mission loots from high sec missions!
CCP: People will be able to walk in station Bongo Debbie: They said people will be able to make love in station!
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fgft Athonille
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Posted - 2011.08.23 22:14:00 -
[69]
ban spank forever
Originally by: Skippermonkey keep trying and you can be an hero just like fgft Athonille
Originally by: Singeaboot Raj Tbh i am beginning to see the win - it's the haircut, makes people take notice.
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Delianora
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Posted - 2011.08.23 22:20:00 -
[70]
CCP: We might change the war dec mechanic. They did.
CCP: The drake is over tanked, we might nerf it. They did.
CCP: Agents are too complicated, we think. We might change them. They did.
CCP: We think nano is too fast. We might change it, They did.
CCP: We think having vanity items is good. We might add some. They did.
CCP: We think the cyno effect is ugly. We might change it. They did.
CCP: We think spinning ships in stations isn't really fun. We might remove that. They did.
SO, CCP wants to nerf ice? Sure... But when you get down to the math, removing it from hi sec is the BEST nerf... The final nerf...
I'm sure some people in the big icelandic debating halls will debate all sides from grav sites to ice depletion but just remember...
CCP: We think... They did.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.23 22:48:00 -
[71]
Quote: Null sec alliances will able to control the price and the amount of Ice 100%
Because they will stop fighting each other and unite under the banner of sanctioning hisec?
I cant ****ing wait. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.08.23 23:30:00 -
[72]
Here is what CCP is thinking now:
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Also for anyone who's not following we're leaning towards just making ice in empire non-infinite rather than removing it, but I realize most people coming in to post aren't actually reading the thread first, I just wanted to say this so people couldn't say we hadn't said it.
So its not disappearing from high sec.
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Lu'Marat
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:41:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Lu''Marat on 24/08/2011 09:49:12 Regardless of whether CCP will/plans to/is bound to remove ice from high-sec now, tomorrow or yesterday, all I can say is
1) as a miner, I really would like to see mining spiced up. AFK-Mining should be discouraged, so the afk miner can either choose between low risk with very low reward in high-sec, or very high risk for high reward in hostile low or null sec. Mining anything other than the three basic ores should involve a serious mining operation with proper logistics, recon and protection, or drive up the ore demand via pretty explosions.
2) in general, I really don't like the way 0.0 is divided between a few large power blocs and becomes increasingly obsolete because few bother anymore. We seriously need to break up those massive entities, and moving a vital resource to 0.0 may in my opinion create just enough incentive to trigger some serious efforts in that direction.
That and... I always wanted to blow up drone miners without getting 'corded all the time.
As for the initial premise that CCP does this to drive POS-owners back to NeX-enabled stations: I'm quite certain the plan is to implement walking in stations for all environments, including POSes, ships, planets etc. I am also quite certain that eventually the temporary option not to load the station environment will simply end up as you being in your pod by default and "incarna" only loading when you choose to step out.
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.08.24 09:50:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Bongo Debbie ... some brainless crap...
you ****ing right! They (CCP) even nerfed jump bridges in 0.0 to move people to nearest NEX store!!!!
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Kunming
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Xenon-Empire
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Posted - 2011.08.24 10:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian I just glanced at the title of this thread and thought it was:
THE REMOVAL OF ICE MINING IN HI-SEC IS PURELY TO FACILITATE SEX STORE
LOL, your brain.. its tricking you!
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Cedille Mureau
Gallente Institute of Archaeology
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Posted - 2011.08.24 11:41:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Helena Vexar
Everyone staying in high sec all the time should be made undesirable! What do you not get about this concept! As of now there is little reason for anyone to even venture out of high sec! There are people who have never even been to low or null sec! It completely undermines the pvp aspect of Eve. This is not a ploy to make people buy vanity items, but it is more a ploy to move the profitable work out to more risky space so people actually have incentive to go there! As of right now low and null sec are barren because nobody has any reason to go there.
Ahhh!, the arrogance of the above statement nearly made me choke. What is it about people choosing to play EVE the way they want to? If you want to go around blowing others of your ilk to pieces be my guest but don't start dictating how other people spend their money. PVP is not the be all and end all of EVE. Oh and as to your last point about low and null sec being barren could it be that they are full of griefers and juveniles just out to make everyone else's life a misery? People are voting with their feet and staying away from 0.0 because it does not offer them a fulfilling experience, just making life unpleasant in other areas will not convince them to move. No carrot just stick.
Note to Bongo Debbie. Your hair looks fine, nice colour too! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.08.24 11:55:00 -
[77]
Yeah... let's jack up the price of POS fuels. Make them nice and ridiculous so we can barely afford to maintain our pos's in our wormholes. How will we compensate for that lost isk?
Tengu - 4 billion. Assorted subsystems, 500M ea, minimum.
Daddy needs his isotopes. |
Rhinanna
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.24 13:07:00 -
[78]
You guys realise WHs are 0.0 as well....
No reason there can't be ice in WHs as well.
The point of this is simply because ice in it's current format is ******ed, an infinite source, in completely safe areas (as much as anywhere in eve), so you can have as many players (read bots) mining 23.5/7 as you want with no problem. Every ice miner in the game could pack into one system and it wouldn't cause problems.
I support this WITH a reduction of the ice cost for tower operations (either hi-sec only or everywhere), then it has an overall good affect, the cost of capital fuel increases massively, meaning people won't want to just drop loads of MS onto any fight.
Its stage 1 MS nerf in disguise! -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag) |
Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.24 14:59:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Lu'Marat
2) in general, I really don't like the way 0.0 is divided between a few large power blocs and becomes increasingly obsolete because few bother anymore. We seriously need to break up those massive entities, and moving a vital resource to 0.0 may in my opinion create just enough incentive to trigger some serious efforts in that direction.
Yeah because giving those large power blocs an effective monopoly on the supply of another critical element of the game economy will cause them to collapse.
First rule of competitive systems is that eventually a winner will emerge and short of outside intervention that winner will leverage their success to maintain and expand their dominance.
Moving Ice to null will not enable new smaller entities to challenge the dominance of the existing power blocks it will simply make it that much easier for those large power blocks to **** block any potential adversaries.
Quote:
That and... I always wanted to blow up drone miners without getting 'corded all the time.
You do realize that bot miners are generally harder to catch than live miners right? Bot's don't make mistakes they don't forget to check Dscan for probes because they were distracted or spacing out. They don't miss that Red/neut entering local because they were busy bsing in corp chat.
Hell it's actually easier to kill a bot in high since they won't have those precautions programmed in.
Also on botting Ice, If someone is going go through the effort to set up a bot and take the risk of losing those accounts why on earth would they use them for the pathetic isk that Ice harvesting generates rather than making double mining Veldspar?
And if there are any people botting Ice in high sec (stupid as doing so may be) why would they move to null rather than just switching to the more lucrative Veldspar?
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Gillaboo
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:06:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Gillaboo on 24/08/2011 16:17:53
Ice fields in WH's?
Not bloody likely. It wouldn't "fix" anything simply moving ice fields to WH's -- the fact that WH's are 0.0 means *nothing* in this equation.
More likely is that you will see "comets" as a scannable hidden site and assigned a depletion rate -- just like roids.
The beauty of which is that "comets", being a scannable object, would be randomly seeded *ANYWHERE* -- High Sec, Low Sec, WH's and traditional Null Sec -- so minimal chance of existing Null Sec power blocks creating monopolies.
Of course, larger alliances that can motivate more people to get out and mine < GASP ! > would enjoy the benefits of such forced labour.
Bottom line, people will actually have to make some effort, regularly, to scoop their ice --- which is a game balancing effect all by itself. AKA, player driven balance.
Welcome to the sandbox.
---------------------------------------------
"MONOCLE-FREE" and Proud Of It !!!!!
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:21:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gillaboo Edited by: Gillaboo on 24/08/2011 16:17:53
Ice fields in WH's?
Not bloody likely. It wouldn't "fix" anything simply moving ice fields to WH's -- the fact that WH's are 0.0 means *nothing* in this equation.
More likely is that you will see "comets" as a scannable hidden site and assigned a depletion rate -- just like roids.
The beauty of which is that "comets", being a scannable object, would be randomly seeded *ANYWHERE* -- High Sec, Low Sec, WH's and traditional Null Sec -- so minimal chance of existing Null Sec power blocks creating monopolies.
Of course, larger alliances that can motivate more people to get out and mine < GASP ! > would enjoy the benefits of such forced labour.
Bottom line, people will actually have to make some effort, regularly, to scoop their ice --- which is a game balancing effect all by itself. AKA, player driven balance.
Welcome to the sandbox.
If they pull this off so that there's still a sufficient supply of fuels for all the non-null pos's, I'd be giddy. I'd love to be able to probe down and extract ice from my hole.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Blake Savage
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:25:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Delianora
What you have now is a isk-arms race between people who carebear all day in hi sec at 30mil isk per hour versus tengu bots and people ratting in safe systems at 30mil per hour...
Okay you fail at eve if you can only make 30m a hour in null sec.
In null sec i made about 90m a hour doing sanctums.
In high sec / low sec you can blitz level 4's , but the ISK pr LP has gone down quite alot after the new patch, plus lets say doing lvl 4's in a high sec system like Illuin where there is a lvl 4 from republic parl. you will only get between 3500-5500 LP pr lvl 4 vs doing a lvl 4 from republic parl. in low sec a 0.4 gives you between 5000~10000 Lp , depending on the mission, and i did test this out for hours upon hours today, consistently did lvl 4's in high sec only to get 5500 LP at the highest , while in low sec i would be around 7500 in average, this is with the security connections trained to 4.
So the isk in high sec is less pr hour when it comes to LP, and LP have dropped in value also anyhow.
I have yet to test the lvl 4 in emolgranlan for republic fleet, to see what kinda LP it gives since its a .5 system.
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nahtoh
Caldari Brotherhood of The Saltire EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:40:00 -
[83]
Well ice is region specific in 0.0 regions, so actually removing it from hi-sec would increase 0.0 logistics complexity somewhat, might have a big impact might have a small impact.
But it would have a impact. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Pablo Amadeus Zekairra
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.24 17:03:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Bongo Debbie This is a no brainer really.
CCP have made an arbitrary decision to move ALL Ice mining out to 0.0 space, which is inaccessible to the 80% (or so) of people that choose to live in Empire where they are free from griefing.
The ramifications are huge. People that choose to live out of POS in an effort to avoid use of stations wherever possible, due to the pointless changes of Incarna and the poisonous addition of RMT in the NEX store (which is the only reason to have a station environment in the first place), will be getting the shaft. These people will not be able to reasonably afford to operate out of POS and inevitably will be forced back into using stations.
It is my belief that this is little more than a cash grab attempt by CCP to get more people using the highly unpopular station environments.
Honestly I dont see why they are moving Ice to null, I hate to bring RL into it but the most abundant substance in the universe is water(and in space froze) meaning if EvE would ever become a reality ice would not be limited to null a type of ice perhaps... House of Kahn on the Web-matrix
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.08.25 00:22:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Delianora CCP: We might change the war dec mechanic. They did.
CCP: The drake is over tanked, we might nerf it. They did.
CCP: Agents are too complicated, we think. We might change them. They did.
CCP: We think nano is too fast. We might change it, They did.
CCP: We think having vanity items is good. We might add some. They did.
CCP: We think the cyno effect is ugly. We might change it. They did.
CCP: We think spinning ships in stations isn't really fun. We might remove that. They did.
SO, CCP wants to nerf ice? Sure... But when you get down to the math, removing it from hi sec is the BEST nerf... The final nerf...
I'm sure some people in the big icelandic debating halls will debate all sides from grav sites to ice depletion but just remember...
CCP: We think... They did.
I thought you were going to reply this topic You did
I thought introduce incursion is fun CCP did
I thought Gaddafi might be fail He did
Just remember............
I'm the god of the world
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Lu'Marat
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Posted - 2011.08.25 00:48:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Cedille Mureau PVP is not the be all and end all of EVE.
As a miner, I disagree. PVP may not be the only viable style of playing EVE, but ultimately PVP is the be-all-end-all game "mechanic". Without PVP, hardly any goods would be consumed, which means mining, production, research and trading would soon dwindle, possibly even vanish. Yes, there probably would still be mission runners, but how much fun will that be if they are the only ones left? So while YOU certainly don't have to blow up stuff to play EVE effectively, SOMEONE has to blow up stuff so you can play EVE effectively.
Originally by: Skex Relbore stuff
How do you believe the large power-blocs started out? Small groups of people bothering enough to work together. I don't see why this can't happen in this case, hard as it may be.
As for the bots, wow, I didn't realize null-sec bots could do all that by now. Impressive. Now do I get this right, those bots are scripted to stop mining once hostiles show up? Works for me. Well, I'd rather blow em up, but getting them to stop mining my ores is alright, too.
And finally, why, it seems ice may just be about to receive a massive economic upgrade. Now let's talk about that Veldspar again...
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.25 14:33:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Lu'Marat
How do you believe the large power-blocs started out? Small groups of people bothering enough to work together. I don't see why this can't happen in this case, hard as it may be.
It's quite different to start from scratch when resources are available to all.
It's something entirely different when those resources are not available.
Regardless you've yet to support this silly idea that moving Ice to null will make it any easier to topple the existing power blocks.
Quote:
As for the bots, wow, I didn't realize null-sec bots could do all that by now. Impressive. Now do I get this right, those bots are scripted to stop mining once hostiles show up? Works for me. Well, I'd rather blow em up, but getting them to stop mining my ores is alright, too.
They aren't mining for your ores they are mining deep in SOV space. Also you think people don't know those tricks you mention and more? People who bubble POS's to catch them when they try to safe up people who log out in their systems at this belts so they can get them while they are aligning out. All that hasn't even dented the botting in null.
How you can think you have an opinion worth considering on the subject of bots when you are so ignorant of their capabilities is beyond me.
They have bots that can pick up a can full of book marks and fly around to them all to salvage. They have bots that can sit around all day and engage in .01 isk wars on the market.
Hell wouldn't surprise me in the least if there were bots that could carry on fairly convincing conversations with the GMs that are checking them out.
It's just not as easy to catch or stop them as many people seem to think.
Quote:
And finally, why, it seems ice may just be about to receive a massive economic upgrade. Now let's talk about that Veldspar again...
Don't bet on it. basic micro-economics supply/demand if you reduce supply you increase price if you increase price you reduce the number of people willing/able to pay that price there by reducing the demand for said product. This will force prices back down to a new equalibrium.
The billion dollar question is whether the market can sustain a high enough price for Ice to motivate enough people to go through the PITA of harvesting it in volume in null before the entire economy collapses in on itself.
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Soma Khan
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.25 14:58:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Aaron Aardvark
Originally by: Alina Wize
Originally by: Bongo Debbie This is a no brainer really.
CCP have made an arbitrary decision to move ALL Ice mining out to 0.0 space, which is inaccessible to the 80% (or so) of people that choose to live in Empire where they are free from griefing.
The ramifications are huge. People that choose to live out of POS in an effort to avoid use of stations wherever possible, due to the pointless changes of Incarna and the poisonous addition of RMT in the NEX store (which is the only reason to have a station environment in the first place), will be getting the shaft. These people will not be able to reasonably afford to operate out of POS and inevitably will be forced back into using stations.
It is my belief that this is little more than a cash grab attempt by CCP to get more people using the highly unpopular station environments.
Can you explain how Ice Mining is tied to the NeX store? If you can't have your bots mine ice in high sec why don't you just move them to a belt and grab ore instead?
Why are you pretending to be so dumb?
psst!.. he's not pretending __
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.08.25 14:59:00 -
[89]
@OP:
I agree the NeX sucks and CCP are going into full money-grabbing mode lately however, I don't really see any correlation between ******ed station environments, barbie dolls and whether ice mining is possible in highsec, lowsec or 0.0.
Actually imo the opposite is the case: people that want to live out of a POS in 0.0 will have it easier to earn money and/or have fun because all ice products will have to be farmed in 0.0 and moved to empire for trading.
The only people it hurts (and rightly so) are the empire bears that want risk free game play and/or semi-godmode. People that are hardcore enough to never dock will not really be influenced much.
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Lu'Marat
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:24:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Lu''Marat on 25/08/2011 16:26:45
Originally by: Skex Relbore
1: Regardless you've yet to support this silly idea that moving Ice to null will make it any easier to topple the existing power blocks.
2: How you can think you have an opinion worth considering on the subject of bots when you are so ignorant of their capabilities is beyond me. ... It's just not as easy to catch or stop them as many people seem to think.
1) I never said it will make it easier. I said that it may help motivate people to actually join forces and drive out the current large players. Big difference. Also, please consider that while some of the current big players date back a while, few if none of them are left over from times when we all started from scratch with a lot of systems to pick up and hold for whoever gets there first.
2) Buddy, all I said was I'm looking forward to shooting ice bots once they move to where Concord won't save them. Sorry for tricking you into thinking I was voicing an opinion you are expected to consider. Also, thanks for the input. I know quite well what bots are able to do on a technical level, I just didn't realize the bots populating EVE had advanced to that level. Back when I last blew up ice bots, that involved swarms of Barges and Mackinaws cluttering high-sec ice fields all day long with the occasional cheap indy dropping by. Sounds like it's going to be much more fun this time. Fortunately, I'm not "many people" and care little about whether what I want to do is easy or not.
By the way, the whole "carrying a conversation" problem is rather easily solved by routing incoming GM challenges through a whitelist and over to some guy on standby who'll pick up for the bot till the GM is gone. Also by the way, why wouldn't it be "my ore" they are mining in that SOV system of theirs?
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