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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:29:00 -
[1]
Removing local is the most R E T A R D E D idea CCP has ever come up with.
Local helps you FIND fights and the way null is right now, most people put a gang together and can't find one. This will make finding PVP HARDER not EASIER.
It will make ganking easier, but that's not PVP, that's PvCB.
Not only that, but this is going to make black ops easy as, well, you never saw us coming, you didn't see us jump into system and well, you don't have our fleet scouted within range either, cause it's cloaked and you have no local.
Removing local is a bad idea and the morons who make the claim that a delayed local, like in wormholes, is a good idea are dumb as they don't think about how unbalanced and boring null/low sec will be when/if they do.
It doesn't help gang warfare in the slightest.
When I take out a 10-20 man gang, we find our hostiles by going into local/intel channels (which are reported by local counts and normally inaccurate ), counting how many bad dudes and deciding to engage or not.
Without local, and by using an "improved scan system" you're now turning, what could be a fast, fun moving gang into a slow, boring one cause you gotta put your faith into a system we're counting on CCP to develop to function as intended.
Good luck
Local works, leave it.
The tears generated from black ops will be glorious, however, this will be niche and short lived. The rest of EVE Online combat will be difficult and hard to find. You will in essence, ruin finding small gangs to fight, just as there is an upswing on small gang warfare.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:34:00 -
[2]
It would allow for alot more unexpected fights. Most of the time fights are AVOIDED because of the info they get in local. Say for an example your running a 20 man gang and your scout notices a 40 man gang 2 systems out. Most gangs will log off or run away, there for avoiding conflict. Without local you will probably see more small scale skirmishs due to lack of intel.
However I do agree to a point that it will allow for a lot more ganks, especially on carebears since the carebear will have no idea if their FoF.
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:36:00 -
[3]
Just to reiterate... I look forward to carebear tears when, not if as I have lost confidence in CCP's ability to have a rational thought. However, the idea behind warping in a cloaked ship which they won't have on D-Scan, pointing and bringing my gang in, be it by Cover Ops or through a gate will become very boring, very quick.
The thrill of the hunt will be more cumbersome and you'll remove some of the fun of pvp.
Wake up.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:39:00 -
[4]
Because using the D-Scan is impossible
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Zagdul on 19/08/2011 10:41:13 Edited by: Zagdul on 19/08/2011 10:40:26
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai It would allow for alot more unexpected fights. Most of the time fights are AVOIDED because of the info they get in local. Say for an example your running a 20 man gang and your scout notices a 40 man gang 2 systems out. Most gangs will log off or run away, there for avoiding conflict. Without local you will probably see more small scale skirmishs due to lack of intel.
However I do agree to a point that it will allow for a lot more ganks, especially on carebears since the carebear will have no idea if their FoF.
"unexpected"?
This is what covert ops are for or titan bridging. Good alliances who are capable of springing a trap, (see: rooks and kings/evoke/NC./GSF/the list goes on) is already in place.
Removing local would inhibit gang fights as people need to invest more time and effort into pvp. Effort right now in EVE is not what the GAME (we are supposed to be playing one right?) is in need of.
Originally by: baltec1 Because using the D-Scan is impossible
With a covert ops cloak, yep.
Please argue the Wormhole theory.
Cause that theory is easily pooped on. Please, do it.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: baltec1 Because using the D-Scan is impossible
With a covert ops cloak, yep.
Please argue the Wormhole theory.
Cause that theory is easily pooped on. Please, do it.
Few people pvp in wormholes because you cant do a quick roam?
But seriously, keep aligned and they cant catch you.
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Tiven loves Tansien
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:44:00 -
[7]
OP, why not make your bot use directional scan
no need to worry then Signature removed for discussion player bans. Zymurgist |
Jemima Puddlefuck
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:47:00 -
[8]
Apocrypha came out quite a while ago. There is no need to whine about this now.
You don't even know what it is CCP intend for 0.0 local apart from them stating it will NOT be the same implementation as J space. ~~~
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Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:48:00 -
[9]
I actually think it will create the opposite. as the guy above me says it will create alot of skirmishes as people will not (most of the time) know theres a another gang 3 jumps out etc.
All local really does is give you very quick intel. You said it yourself you use local to decide whether or not to engage, so your basically saying if you know your odds on to win your going to attack and if you think they might be a chance of you losing your gonna bail.
The fact that it is hard to find pvp (not for everyone) in 0.0 is that you have large swaves of 0.0 that are blue to each other and you little gang has been reported 20 mintues before you arrive. Most people dock up and do something else or the others try to get a fleet twice the size of yours to completely waste you. Unfortunately PVP for the most part (not all mind) in EVE has become a numbers agme.
I actually think it would help small gang warfare but then again all thats probably going to happen is nobody will roam without 30 plus players in their fleet because they are scared of what might in the next system.
Personally I wouldn't see a problem with it being removed.
Also saying people are "dumb" or "morons" because they don't agree with your point of view doesn't really help your argument.
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: baltec1 Because using the D-Scan is impossible
With a covert ops cloak, yep.
Please argue the Wormhole theory.
Cause that theory is easily pooped on. Please, do it.
Few people pvp in wormholes because you cant do a quick roam?
But seriously, keep aligned and they cant catch you.
You're dumb.
"Keep aligned as the cloaked recon points you then lights a cyno and drops a titan on your face, or a black ops fleet, or a gang sitting on a titan."
You can't do that in a wormhole you imbecile.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zagdul Edited by: Zagdul on 19/08/2011 10:41:13 Edited by: Zagdul on 19/08/2011 10:40:26 "unexpected"?
This is what covert ops are for or titan bridging. Good alliances who are capable of springing a trap, (see: rooks and kings/evoke/NC./GSF/the list goes on) is already in place.
Removing local would inhibit gang fights as people need to invest more time and effort into pvp. Effort right now in EVE is not what the GAME (we are supposed to be playing one right?) is in need of.
Even covert drops and hot drops aren't really unexpected. Since you can check local and see that either a single pilot from said alliance or a random NPC corp player is in local. When that happens you can just assume a hot drop is going to happen.
Yes people MIGHT have to spend more time but I honestly don't think so since the unknown aspect is there. Like I said in my first post, ALOT of fights are avoided because of local. If local is removed then people won't have that luxury or intel to avoid fights.
Now just so you know I'm not all for removal of local. However I do think its something that should be explored abit outside of WH. Possibly NPC 0.0 would be a good place to test the theory.
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Jemima Puddlefuck
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:53:00 -
[12]
I would love to know the trick to putting a point on someone while cloaked. Alas I am too dumb to match your intellect. ~~~
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:53:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Zagdul on 19/08/2011 10:54:21
Originally by: Signal11th I actually think it will create the opposite. as the guy above me says it will create alot of skirmishes as people will not (most of the time) know theres a another gang 3 jumps out etc.
All local really does is give you very quick intel. You said it yourself you use local to decide whether or not to engage, so your basically saying if you know your odds on to win your going to attack and if you think they might be a chance of you losing your gonna bail.
The fact that it is hard to find pvp (not for everyone) in 0.0 is that you have large swaves of 0.0 that are blue to each other and you little gang has been reported 20 mintues before you arrive. Most people dock up and do something else or the others try to get a fleet twice the size of yours to completely waste you. Unfortunately PVP for the most part (not all mind) in EVE has become a numbers agme.
I actually think it would help small gang warfare but then again all thats probably going to happen is nobody will roam without 30 plus players in their fleet because they are scared of what might in the next system.
Personally I wouldn't see a problem with it being removed.
Also saying people are "dumb" or "morons" because they don't agree with your point of view doesn't really help your argument.
I'm not sure if you're trolling, but right now... there's a huge upswing in 20-30 man gangs roaming around getting fights. We all use local to engage.
Some alliances further broadcast their fleets via livestream so that people can find them easier.
The current temp in null is not to hide from a fight, rather finding one.
Removing local makes this more work.
Stop making more work in a video game.
Originally by: Jemima Puddle**** I would love to know the trick to putting a point on someone while cloaked. Alas I am too dumb to match your intellect.
yes, you are dumb.
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Thornat
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Signal11th I actually think it will create the opposite. as the guy above me says it will create alot of skirmishes as people will not (most of the time) know theres a another gang 3 jumps out etc.
All local really does is give you very quick intel. You said it yourself you use local to decide whether or not to engage, so your basically saying if you know your odds on to win your going to attack and if you think they might be a chance of you losing your gonna bail.
The fact that it is hard to find pvp (not for everyone) in 0.0 is that you have large swaves of 0.0 that are blue to each other and you little gang has been reported 20 mintues before you arrive. Most people dock up and do something else or the others try to get a fleet twice the size of yours to completely waste you. Unfortunately PVP for the most part (not all mind) in EVE has become a numbers agme.
I actually think it would help small gang warfare but then again all thats probably going to happen is nobody will roam without 30 plus players in their fleet because they are scared of what might in the next system.
Personally I wouldn't see a problem with it being removed.
Also saying people are "dumb" or "morons" because they don't agree with your point of view doesn't really help your argument.
Agreed and I think the issue is much larger. Local breaks pretty much every mechanic in the game for which PvP is intended, but in the same token the current ship scanning system is clunky, outdated and not particularly reliable. I think the ship scanning system needs to be improved and made both more interesting by offering ways to add modules, specialize in skills, use specific ships etc.. In short it needs to be cool enough and effective enough to allow for the elimination of local. But as it stands I agree that local as an intel tool is stupid, it pulls you out of the game.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.19 10:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zagdul Edited by: Zagdul on 19/08/2011 10:50:42
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: baltec1 Because using the D-Scan is impossible
With a covert ops cloak, yep.
Please argue the Wormhole theory.
Cause that theory is easily pooped on. Please, do it.
Few people pvp in wormholes because you cant do a quick roam?
But seriously, keep aligned and they cant catch you.
You're dumb.
"Keep aligned as the cloaked recon points you then lights a cyno and drops a titan on your face, or a black ops fleet, or a gang sitting on a titan."
You can't do that in a wormhole you imbecile.
Also.
I am not trying to avoid combat, I'm looking for it.
I'm a sadistic f$ck who would sit in a belt with my gang next door for hours waiting for you to spring your trap. I want PVP, I don't stay aligned. I wait for you to engage me.
This is the point you miss. I want fights and removing local makes it harder for me to find them.
First, if you cannot warp away the second something uncloaks then you were not aligned.
And next, Use the D-scan to find the fights. The loss of local will in no way stop me from roaming and will most likely get me more fights as people cant get instant intel on my gang.
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Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zagdul Edited by: Zagdul on 19/08/2011 10:54:21
Originally by: Signal11th I actually think it will create the opposite. as the guy above me says it will create alot of skirmishes as people will not (most of the time) know theres a another gang 3 jumps out etc.
All local really does is give you very quick intel. You said it yourself you use local to decide whether or not to engage, so your basically saying if you know your odds on to win your going to attack and if you think they might be a chance of you losing your gonna bail.
The fact that it is hard to find pvp (not for everyone) in 0.0 is that you have large swaves of 0.0 that are blue to each other and you little gang has been reported 20 mintues before you arrive. Most people dock up and do something else or the others try to get a fleet twice the size of yours to completely waste you. Unfortunately PVP for the most part (not all mind) in EVE has become a numbers agme.
I actually think it would help small gang warfare but then again all thats probably going to happen is nobody will roam without 30 plus players in their fleet because they are scared of what might in the next system.
Personally I wouldn't see a problem with it being removed.
Also saying people are "dumb" or "morons" because they don't agree with your point of view doesn't really help your argument.
I'm not sure if you're trolling, but right now... there's a huge upswing in 20-30 man gangs roaming around getting fights. We all use local to engage.
Some alliances further broadcast their fleets via livestream so that people can find them easier.
The current temp in null is not to hide from a fight, rather finding one.
Removing local makes this more work.
Stop making more work in a video game.
Originally by: Jemima Puddle**** I would love to know the trick to putting a point on someone while cloaked. Alas I am too dumb to match your intellect.
yes, you are dumb.
All I can do is speak from experience of living in 0.0, e.g last night 3 of us, yes that the large fleet of 3 flew into a TEST system where there was at least 15 people in system. We entered, everyone docked up. I mentioned in local that there seemed to be alot of carebears in this system and what happened ...nothing. What actually happened is that a single TEST pilot followed us into our system and said in local "How dare we accuse them of being carebears when in fact we we bigger carebears than them. He then threatened to get the Goontrain to come and kill us.lol pathetic.
Honestly I lived in 0.0 for awhile and all local was used for was to either gank much smaller fleets than us or disengage from much bigger fleets than us.
If local was removed we would have got some juicy kills!
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Ceelah
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:12:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ceelah on 19/08/2011 11:18:18 OP, when someone pops a cyno and a bazillion m3 of ore lands on you, having or not having local does not help you. It does, however, neut your opportunity to rage / smack in local while you get ****d.
Wanna have better success on a roam? Try using a scout. Use several and spread them around. I hear they have combat probes and can actually see what ships, how many, and exactly where they are in a system.
You know why most people won't fight your 20 man gang? Because they can see you coming in local and run until:
A. They get 40 guys together and blob you (you then post "Waaaaaahhhh! Nerf the blob / supercaps / cynos").
B. You and your 20 Alphanumeric geek names (i.e. "6unsling3R" and "Grumpy McGeekerrage") have left local and are 4 gates away.
See? Having local works both ways, NOT having local works even better for you. Learn some new skills, learn how to apply them, enjoy the fireworks.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zagdul It will make ganking easier, but that's not PVP, that's PvCB.
The risk reward thing should go both ways, if ccp plans on making 0.0 the most lucrative area, it seems fair that it's the most dangerous place to be.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:20:00 -
[19]
Also not having local will allow fleets to actually be able to use different strategies that could actually cause fights.
For example:
Say your sieging a POS. Your actual fleet is 200 strong, however you only initially put 50 on the POS and have the other 150 cloaked up or somewhere else thats not easily scanned out. The defenders look at this and think there is only 50(by being on grid ofc) and decide to set up a counter. The defenders end up sending the 70 people they can muster and start the attack only to find out the actual numbers.
With local the defender sees there are 200 hostiles in local and decide they have no chance of mustering up that kind of numbers and stay docked up.
Another example.
A enemy is sieging a POS once it comes out of RF. They have all gates covered and scouts in surrounding systems watching those gates. However you have a lone(or acouple) people who decided to logoff in system prior to the RF coming out. These pilots end up lighting covert cynos and possibly even titan bridge cynos. The enemy has no idea on numbers so a fight will generally be the outcome.
With local as soon as local spikes either through the covert or titan cyno the enemy now has exact number of hostiles and can then choose to emergency cyno out or warp off to a safe or POS. Another fight avoided.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:20:00 -
[20]
I don't think CCP is removing local, they are simply changing it somehow, no one knows how.
But I agree kspace is not compatible with wh type delayed local. It works in wormholes, because there is way less traffic and no hotdropping.
Local needs to change, but it can't be completely removed and replaced by nothing, otherwise it will fail miserably.
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Efraya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:29:00 -
[21]
ITT: Null bears whining about not being able to gather intel via local anymore. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist |
Azhpol
Gallente Casa Del Wombat
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: baltec1 And next, Use the D-scan to find the fights. The loss of local will in no way stop me from roaming and will most likely get me more fights as people cant get instant intel on my gang.
Please, for the love of god, tell me how to find out fleet comps from local. That would make ignoring those AFK Cloakers even easier than it already is
And for people saying that people use the intel from local/intel channels to avoid fights when we roam, it couldn't be more wrong. You hear about a fleet twice your size a few systems away and you use that to start getting more people into fleet. We are all dying for a good fight, and knowing that someone has a red fleet in engagement range brings pilots out of the woodwork to get some killmails.
Removing local would make finding goodfights harder, and ganks easier(for a month or 2 til everyone left null).
There is no real fix to AFK cloaking(in the end thats what removing local is about) because there is nothing WRONG with AFK cloaking, and anyone who understands nullsec warfare should understand that. No one will ever win wars/take space without the ability to prevent the enemy from making as much isk/mining as much ore as they can in peacetime.
If you want a change to AFK cloaking and all that, I think an alternate mechanic for disrupting your ability to make isk needs to be put into play to replace it. Got any suggestions? ----------------------------------------------- I don't post on an alt, I post on my forum main! |
Yvenn
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:33:00 -
[23]
@ Zagdul: Please leave your ******ed posts on kug...com, thanks. Remove of local would be the best that could happen to EVE since years ( maybe not for your fleet of Tengu bots up north though ).
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Monstress
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: baltec1
First, if you cannot warp away the second something uncloaks then you were not aligned.
I've caught many naive people like you who don't understand the concept of a bump decloak. You sir have clearly demonstrated your elite PVP skillz.
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Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:39:00 -
[25]
CCP have insisted that local will be replaced by other intel tools. Something which benefits from a "net" of intelligence, I'm guessing, as they want intel to be very easily shared. They'll probably change local to delayed, and add other stuff, for null/low/WH. It'll be different for each, probably.
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Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Monstress
Originally by: baltec1
First, if you cannot warp away the second something uncloaks then you were not aligned.
I've caught many naive people like you who don't understand the concept of a bump decloak. You sir have clearly demonstrated your elite PVP skillz.
She's right you know!
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Denise Le'Slut
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:42:00 -
[27]
pull the sand out your pussies, ccp never said local will just be removed. why is everyone jumping to strange conclusions from the nebula like devblog
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Suiken-user
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:48:00 -
[28]
I would love to see local in null go. Every time i need to do escalation to null, I always seem to run into bubble camp that tries to gank me and my loot once I'm done. And I don't use T3.
All these crybabies are just scared that their null will not be as safe as it used to be. Null full of blues no more will be the safe paradise.. oh gosh.. what will I do.. will have to tremble in fear and check that D-Scan once in awhile. THE HORROR!.
If it was up to me, I would make all hulls up to cruiser class immune to bubbles. When people could not be ganked so easily anymore, then you would see real traffic like it should be and make Null wild wild west and not some safe carebear island fest that it is now.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:51:00 -
[29]
Edited by: baltec1 on 19/08/2011 11:54:09
Originally by: Azhpol
Please, for the love of god, tell me how to find out fleet comps from local. That would make ignoring those AFK Cloakers even easier than it already is
Fleet jumps in and you have instant numbers and if they are in your space you know exactly where they came from. 90% of the time nothing forms up to counter said gangs and of the ones that do form up most either form up too late or never leave the station.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.08.19 11:52:00 -
[30]
Local is a crutch that people have become accustomed to relying on instead of other, more active tools. Bots depend on it for their insta-warp outs. Gank fleets rely on it to find easy prey, and to run away from real fights. Null-bunnies depend on it to know if it's "safe" to undock. If it's removed, or simply changed to a wormhole-type of system where you only appear if you use it, people will adapt. The game will change a little, bots will be a little easier to kill until they learn to use dscan... hell, everyone will have to learn to use dscan. When you see probes you'll actually have to make a decision to stay or go.
It would be come a more challenging, yet more beautiful place.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
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