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Investment Domino
Domino Investments Bank
0
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Posted - 2012.09.20 19:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello, my fellow internet spaceship pilots. I'm proud to announce that Domino Investments Bank is now open to the public for trading.
We're a small corporation who deals in industry and trade to make money. As you know, it takes money to make money. This is where you come in.
DMIB (Domino Investments Bank) will sell it's shares at the fixed price of 1 Million per share. At the end of each month we will pay out 100% of the profits made in the form of dividends. Note, that dividend payments may happen multiple times a month, but will happen at least once a month typically at the end.
If you're interested please read the DMIB - Investor Resource page.
You can find our share information at the DMIB - Share Information page. You will also find the corp API Key there for verification and your auditing needs.
We currently have 2000 shares for sale.
If you have any questions, feel free to drop me a line.
Thank you.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
369
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Posted - 2012.09.20 19:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Uhm , the domino name ... you know like how one starts falling and .... ah hell not even gonna make the effort here One day baby we'd be old , oh baby we'd be old and think of all the stories that we could have told ...-á |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
81
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Posted - 2012.09.20 19:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
If 100% of the profit is paid out, what is your incentive? |
Investment Domino
Domino Investments Bank
0
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Posted - 2012.09.20 19:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Barakach wrote:If 100% of the profit is paid out, what is your incentive?
I'm the majority shareholder, so I make a lot of money. |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
81
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Posted - 2012.09.20 19:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Investment Domino wrote:Barakach wrote:If 100% of the profit is paid out, what is your incentive? I'm the majority shareholder, so I make a lot of money.
I'm sure I'm understanding something wrong or you're saying it wrong, but if 100% of the profit is paid out, then you gain absolutely nothing from the extra money. Essentially working for free.
Do you charge any management overhead? Fixed monthly fees, percentage of profit, anything?
If anything, a larger wallet is worse because the more money you have, the lower your margins, which means you not only don't gain something, you actually lose something.
Again, I assume I am missing something. |
Investment Domino
Domino Investments Bank
0
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Posted - 2012.09.20 20:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Barakach wrote:Investment Domino wrote:Barakach wrote:If 100% of the profit is paid out, what is your incentive? I'm the majority shareholder, so I make a lot of money. I'm sure I'm understanding something wrong or you're saying it wrong, but if 100% of the profit is paid out, then you gain absolutely nothing from the extra money. Essentially working for free. Do you charge any management overhead? Fixed monthly fees, percentage of profit, anything? If anything, a larger wallet is worse because the more money you have, the lower your margins, which means you not only don't gain something, you actually lose something. Again, I assume I am missing something.
I'm not buying spaceships and then blowing them up. I'm merely using the money to trade, gain profit, then reusing the base cost to rebuy, rinse, and repeat. The profit goes off to the investors. Since, right now, I'm the main investor I get 96% of the profit back. If more people were to invest, my profit goes down. Which is ok, their money is making everyone else more money, including myself.
I plan on keeping at least a 51% stake in the IPO. I have many billions to do this with, this is just how it looks when you start out small.
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Vadane Deninard
Deninard Industries
6
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Posted - 2012.09.20 20:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yea Bara, I guess you do. For example: If I'm holding 50% of all shares and pay out all profit as dividends, then 50% of the profit ends up being in my wallet since i own 50% of the shares.
Essentially, he is sharing his profit with fellow shareholders just like other people do when being invested in - just that he does it via shares.
Still I'm wondering what his main character is (this is about 1 month old), which character does the trading/production and so forth. It's an interesting idea - but I personally do not have enough trust in this from a scam-perspective. |
Investment Domino
Domino Investments Bank
0
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Posted - 2012.09.20 20:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vadane Deninard wrote:Yea Bara, I guess you do. For example: If I'm holding 50% of all shares and pay out all profit as dividends, then 50% of the profit ends up being in my wallet since i own 50% of the shares.
Essentially, he is sharing his profit with fellow shareholders just like other people do when being invested in - just that he does it via shares.
Still I'm wondering what his main character is (this is about 1 month old), which character does the trading/production and so forth. It's an interesting idea - but I personally do not have enough trust in this from a scam-perspective.
This is correct. As far as scamming goes, there is no way to not be protected. The share system in EVE Online is pretty flat and doesn't give any guarantees like a real life market does. I really wish they would update it. :(
Anyways, maybe in a few months when you see we're still around, you'll invest. Thanks for looking. |
Thoraemond
Far Ranger
42
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Posted - 2012.09.20 21:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
The OP and Vadane Deninard seem to be miss Barakach's point.
The OP says "I'm the majority shareholder, so I make a lot of money." ... well, the OP stands to make no more under this investment scheme than if he simply invested his own ISK, despite the extra work.
Consider some cases:
Case 1: The OP invests his trading company's 2 billion ISK now, without having any investors buy shares. And let's say he thus makes 1 billion in profit in the month. He keeps the 1 billion ISK in profit.
Case 2: The OP sells 1 billion in shares to investors, so his investment in the company is trimmed to 50% (i.e., half of the trading company's ISK returns to his wallet and it not used for trading by the business). With the same 2 billion ISK amount, the company again makes 1 billion profit. However, half of the profit is due to the investors, so the OP makes only half as much as in Case 1.
Case 2a: The OP does Case 2, but also invests his own 1 billion that was returned to his wallet when he sold his shares to the investors. At the same rate of return as for the company, he makes 500 million ISK on this amount, and so catches up to the return he made under Case 1. Of course, he has a whole extra set of work, dealing with the extra ISK, the accounting of the company's ISK vs. his own ISK, and there is the apparent conflict of interest in his trading (does he take the best deals with the company's ISK or his own?).
Case 3: The OP sells 1 billion in shares to investors, so his share ownership in the company is trimmed to 50%, but he is a poor accountant and continues to use all the ISK (his original 2 billion ISK + the investors' 1 billion ISK) to trade for the company. So with 3 billion ISK, he makes 1.5 billion ISK in profit. The OP pays out the 50% profit via the shares, still making less than he would have made if he used only his own ISK.
Case 3a: The OP belatedly realizes his accounting/ownership mistake and fudges some numbers to pay out only a third of the profit to investors, despite their 50% ownership. Again his profit is the same a Case 1, but again he had the extra work all month.
In no case is the OP better off when he's offering to pay back 100% of the profits to investors.
Add in the tendency of marginal rates of return to decrease as the capital involved increases, and the OP would simply tend to do better without taking investments. |
Investment Domino
Domino Investments Bank
1
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Posted - 2012.09.21 00:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thoraemond, I appreciate your post.
However, I will argue your last talking point as it's the core subject matter.
Quote:In no case is the OP better off when he's offering to pay back 100% of the profits to investors.
The point of getting investors into your company is to make more money. Even if I only had a 10% share in the company, I would make more money at the end of the month than if I would have with ONLY my 10% being used.
It's a very basic idea of how investing works.
Let's use an example. Lets say we had a public corp that was worth 20 dollars. 19 dollars is owned by shareholders and 1 dollar is owned by the corporation. If that corporation didn't have shareholders, it would only have one dollar. Going out and making, buying, selling goods would be very difficult with a dollar. So you're stuck with selling gum for a very minimal profit. However, we have 20 dollars because of investors. We can now go out and buy larger items like cans of coke that we can sell at a better margin and make more money over a period of time.
Sure the company only owns 5% of the total worth, but it makes a lot more because the margin of profit is higher and you sell a whole lot more gum and soda than you would with only 1 dollar.
Another thing, as an investment company, you feel like you're helping out fellow players and being apart of a community. I've got really rich buying and selling on the open eve market. However, I want to help others make money. I don't do this to just get rich, I do it because I enjoy doing it. It's fun to me. |
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Occulta Cantet
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.09.21 01:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Investment Domino wrote: Another thing, as an investment company, you feel like you're helping out fellow players and being apart of a community. I've got really rich buying and selling on the open eve market. However, I want to help others make money. I don't do this to just get rich, I do it because I enjoy doing it. It's fun to me.
This is EvE, beneficence need not apply. |
Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
137
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Posted - 2012.09.21 02:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Posting with my main to vouch for this guy, although I'm not convinced of the business model |
Thoraemond
Far Ranger
45
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Posted - 2012.09.21 04:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Investment Domino wrote:[...]We can now go out and buy larger items like cans of coke that we can sell at a better margin and make more money over a period of time.[...] The premise that underlies this argument is that more capital grants you access to new markets, with better margins.
But you said that you already have "many billions". In New Eden, this means you long ago reached the point of decreasing marginal rates of returns, which you know from your trading experience.
That's why I concluded my previous post with: "Add in the tendency of marginal rates of return to decrease as the capital involved increases, and the OP would simply tend to do better without taking investments."
Investment Domino wrote:Sure the company only owns 5% of the total worth, but it makes a lot more because the margin of profit is higher and you sell a whole lot more gum and soda than you would with only 1 dollar. This makes me wonder if you might be confusing margin amount and margin rate. It is easy to make more profit amount with more capital, but hard to make profits at a faster rate. Unless taking investments increases the margin rate achieved with your own ISK, it's not a good move, fiscally.
Investment Domino wrote:Another thing, as an investment company, you feel like you're helping out fellow players and being apart of a community. I've got really rich buying and selling on the open eve market. However, I want to help others make money. I don't do this to just get rich, I do it because I enjoy doing it. It's fun to me. This seems the only plausible motive for your offering, but even this doesn't make much sense.
If you want to help others, just give them the seed ISK to get them started with trading, or explain to them how to make ISK. Taking others' ISK and using it for them is not really "helping them make money". |
Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
21
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Posted - 2012.09.21 08:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Domino Investments Bank - Investor Resource wrote:Do shares lose or gain value? No, shares will always remain valued at 1 Million ISK each
So what happens if you make a loss? who is going to fill to hole?
Domino Investments Bank - Investor Resource wrote: I got an ingame mail saying their is a vote to create more shares. What do I do? You can simply do nothing or vote yes. If you vote no, you would not only be trying to inhibit the growth of your investments, you would be trying to inhibit the growth of others.
Unless you can guarantee the same rate of return and beat the issue of diminishing returns, then allowing further share issues is going to reduce your dividend as an investor. Pretty good reason to care about controlled growth and want to vote no. Nice try at making shareholders feel bad though.
Investment Domino wrote: Let's use an example. Lets say we had a public corp that was worth 20 dollars. 19 dollars is owned by shareholders and 1 dollar is owned by the corporation. If that corporation didn't have shareholders, it would only have one dollar. Going out and making, buying, selling goods would be very difficult with a dollar. So you're stuck with selling gum for a very minimal profit. However, we have 20 dollars because of investors. We can now go out and buy larger items like cans of coke that we can sell at a better margin and make more money over a period of time.
Corporations dont own their own worth. Shareholders own corporations and corporations own assets. Also, cool story bro. We had no idea how this worked before you came here.
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Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
81
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Posted - 2012.09.21 15:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Investment Domino wrote:
Let's use an example. Lets say we had a public corp that was worth 20 dollars. 19 dollars is owned by shareholders and 1 dollar is owned by the corporation. If that corporation didn't have shareholders, it would only have one dollar. Going out and making, buying, selling goods would be very difficult with a dollar. So you're stuck with selling gum for a very minimal profit. However, we have 20 dollars because of investors. We can now go out and buy larger items like cans of coke that we can sell at a better margin and make more money over a period of time.
I do agree that your total net profit increases, but your percentage growth goes down.
Say you have $1 and you start trading soda and gum. At the end of the month you may have $3, which is 3x of what you started with.
Say you have $20 total, but $19 is other people's money. You start trading soda and gum and at the end of the month you have $30.
In the first example, you gained $2; but in the second example, you only gained $0.50.
If you had some sort of management charge, like 30%, then you would have made $2.85 in the case you had $19 from other people. This is why I was asking if you were planning to have some sort of management charge, be it percentage or fixed fee.
Very rarely does more money in you wallet mean a better percentage return.
Anyway, I am done derailing your thread and I wish you luck in your endeavors. |
Investment Domino
Domino Investments Bank
1
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Posted - 2012.09.23 21:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Only 220 Shares remain.
Taking small investment purchases only. 10 Million (10 shares) or less at this moment.
If you're looking to invest, do it now. I guarantee at least a 10% ROI each month. Don't forget to join the mailing list, DMIB.
Thank you |
Thoraemond
Far Ranger
47
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Posted - 2012.09.25 03:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Investment Domino wrote:We currently have 2000 shares for sale. Domino Investment Bank IPO Investor Resource wrote:We start out at 10000 shares (10 Billion ISK). Your "Share Information" spreadsheet indicates that 12000 shares are owned.
In-game, Domino Corp [DMNO] appears to have 10000 shares, and Domino Investments Bank [DMIB] appears to have 2000 shares.
A few questions:
- How many shares are there? Are they all DMIB shares?
- Your list of investors includes at least half a dozen pilots with the last name "Domino" who are in Domino Corp. Are those your own alts?
- Almost all shares appear to be owned by current or former members of SWAG Co. [SWAG] corporation. What connection, if any, is there this IPO and that corporation?
Investment Domino wrote:I'm proud to announce that Domino Investments Bank is now open to the public for trading. Domino Investment Bank IPO Investor Resource wrote:What can I do with the shares? You can let them sit forever in your wallet giving you extra income. You can sell them freely to whomever you wish.
After some further research, I think I may be ready to get in on this action.
I would like to initiate the secondary market for these shares by bidding 100 kISK per share, for up to 100 shares.
Will these shares be registered on a stock market, like the BSAC Exchange, or should they be traded in this thread? |
Seraph IX Basarab
Vengance Inc.
32
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Posted - 2012.09.25 15:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Pharoh here needs some money to build his pyramid. Isn't it obvious? |
Investment Domino
Domino Investments Bank
1
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Posted - 2012.09.27 13:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thoraemond wrote:Investment Domino wrote:We currently have 2000 shares for sale. Domino Investment Bank IPO Investor Resource wrote:We start out at 10000 shares (10 Billion ISK). Your "Share Information" spreadsheet indicates that 12000 shares are owned. In-game, Domino Corp [DMNO] appears to have 10000 shares, and Domino Investments Bank [DMIB] appears to have 2000 shares.
Yes, I double checked. There is an error on the share count for Domino Investments Bank. There are 12000 shares, but the count on the corp info only shows 2000. I'll submit a bug report to CCP
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:The Pharoh here needs some money to build his pyramid. Isn't it obvious?
Silly, there are no pyramids in EVE! |
Seraph IX Basarab
Vengance Inc.
36
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 22:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
No, but there are pyramid schemes. |
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Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
12
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Posted - 2012.09.27 23:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Question:
Invest 10 million - it will repay in 10 months. (Sell the shares back and the money will double to 20 million)
Or
Use a barge for an hour or two
Or - pick up some stuff in an indy and make this in an hour or two
Or - run a mission or 3
Unless I am missing something, why would anyone want to invest a small amount?
Why are you even offering shares so inexpensively and do people really buy in?
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Investment Domino
Domino Investments Bank
1
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Posted - 2012.10.02 15:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Clystan wrote:Question:
Invest 10 million - it will repay in 10 months. (Sell the shares back and the money will double to 20 million)
Or
Use a barge for an hour or two
Or - pick up some stuff in an indy and make this in an hour or two
Or - run a mission or 3
Unless I am missing something, why would anyone want to invest a small amount?
Why are you even offering shares so inexpensively and do people really buy in?
If all you had was 10m, then yes. I don't think the best way to make money would be to invest it in someone/something else. Especially, like you said, you could easily make as much money back by investing in yourself.
However, not everyone goes out and uses their money, or at least all of it, to make them more money. A lot of people just leave gobs of isk in their wallet collecting space dust. More or less, the essence of how this works is that I'm working for you.
Do people invest? Yes, I have about 4 people that I don't know who have invested. Everyone else are friends that I've met in game or have known for a while. I understand if this looks suspicious, I'd question the whole thing too. I am enjoying what I'm doing though.
Unfortunately there are no shares left to be bought. You can reserve some shares, "prepuchase", some shares for a future share buy. They will come available around New Years. This too is almost sold out. I think I only have about 2000 left, and a lot of those are "verbally" accounted for. This is why I say small sums. It's easier to give people 20 or so shares instead of 2000.
Good speed!
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
15
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Posted - 2012.10.02 16:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'll make a standing offer for 200k isk/share, feel free to evemail me if you're interested in selling yours. TEST Alliance now offering rental agreements in Fountain. -áPlease contact me via eve-mail if interested. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
212
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Posted - 2012.10.02 21:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Can this be validated by any backing parties such as alliances that have something to lose or Trustworthy well known main characters who may have respect to lose?
What access will the public have to the inner dealings information of the internal ISK management? |
Clystan
Binaerie Heavy Industries
12
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Posted - 2012.10.02 21:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Investment Domino wrote:Clystan wrote:Question:
Invest 10 million - it will repay in 10 months. (Sell the shares back and the money will double to 20 million)
Or
Use a barge for an hour or two
Or - pick up some stuff in an indy and make this in an hour or two
Or - run a mission or 3
Unless I am missing something, why would anyone want to invest a small amount?
Why are you even offering shares so inexpensively and do people really buy in?
If all you had was 10m, then yes. I don't think the best way to make money would be to invest it in someone/something else. Especially, like you said, you could easily make as much money back by investing in yourself. However, not everyone goes out and uses their money, or at least all of it, to make them more money. A lot of people just leave gobs of isk in their wallet collecting space dust. More or less, the essence of how this works is that I'm working for you. Do people invest? Yes, I have about 4 people that I don't know who have invested. Everyone else are friends that I've met in game or have known for a while. I understand if this looks suspicious, I'd question the whole thing too. I am enjoying what I'm doing though. Unfortunately there are no shares left to be bought. You can reserve some shares, "prepuchase", some shares for a future share buy. They will come available around New Years. This too is almost sold out. I think I only have about 2000 left, and a lot of those are "verbally" accounted for. This is why I say small sums. It's easier to give people 20 or so shares instead of 2000. Good speed!
On paper - it makes sense with larger amounts of disposable ISK weighted against risk.
Anyway - good luck and thanks for the response. |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
135
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 04:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
I am still not clear on the purpose of this. You are taking on both extra work and new risk with no personal gain at all. If time and effort are money then this venture is a net loss for you. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Vengance Inc.
42
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 08:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
David Forge wrote:I am still not clear on the purpose of this. You are taking on both extra work and new risk with no personal gain at all. If time and effort are money then this venture is a net loss for you.
It's a pyramid scheme. You give him 100 mil, and he pays you back out of your own money. Eventually he gets enough people investing where he stops paying anybody and just runs off with the money. It's been done before. |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
136
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 17:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:It's a pyramid scheme. You give him 100 mil, and he pays you back out of your own money. Eventually he gets enough people investing where he stops paying anybody and just runs off with the money. It's been done before.
I wanted him to let that slip.
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