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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 64 post(s) |
Agaetis Byrjun Endalaust
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
18
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Posted - 2012.09.20 18:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
long story short: not only you're nerfing the 3 most popular ships in EVE but also the way everyone was pve-ing since ever.
This update is breaking salvaging during mission, mining, plex runners, drone boats, everyone who spent months to skill a 2nd/3rd/.... account for some specific task. Moreover it will break every technique previously used (thus making all sites reporting info and 'blitz strategies' totally useless) such as the bring-the-tough-guy-who-gets-aggro and clean the rooms with dps boats with some specific role and fitting. Now if I'm not completely wrong, every and each ship should potentially be able to tank the full room. This is a dead end.
Yeah, indeed NPC are getting smarter. Doesn't look the same for humans programming them though
And I'm sure It would be stupid to ask for a complete revamp of bounties and missions rewards ______________________________ just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after you |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
581
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Posted - 2012.09.20 18:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Crazy idea I know. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1131
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Posted - 2012.09.20 19:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Tanaka Aiko wrote:is the long term goal having less redboxes but more powerfull ships like incursions and sleepers ?
I would really like that, it's a pain killing all these little things who loot nothing and have no chance killing us, and I don't even talk about thinking of salvaging these...
When you kill a sleeper frigate you don't have the impression of losing your time, cause this thing hurt, have lots of scamble, neut or web so it's real dangerous, but it does also loot not bad. a nullsec frigate however... it may scramble and need to be killed quickly in this case, but you two shot it, and it loot nothing. so you only have the impression of losing your time. Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them.
YES IVE BEEN WAITING 5 years for someone to say that. Someone at CCP was always to scared to follow though. Don't let me down now! http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Melina Lin
Universal Frog
38
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Posted - 2012.09.20 19:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
We need a better seeded market on Duality, if we are supposed to test this. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
443
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Posted - 2012.09.20 20:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
I like where this is going... it might even get to the point where one might consider killing a few red boxes once in a while sooooo... was thinking, when you decrease the number of red boxes eventually... could the amount of sec status gained for killing a strong single red box battleship be increased a lot? Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
594
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Posted - 2012.09.20 20:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
Melina Lin wrote:We need a better seeded market on Duality, if we are supposed to test this.
I know. Right now it is setup for testing the frigates and destroyers so most of the stuff is not seeded. :( Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
594
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Posted - 2012.09.20 20:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:I like where this is going... it might even get to the point where one might consider killing a few red boxes once in a while sooooo... was thinking, when you decrease the number of red boxes eventually... could the amount of sec status gained for killing a strong single red box battleship be increased a lot?
When we eventually get there then yes I hope so. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Gisander
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4
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Posted - 2012.09.20 21:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Tanaka Aiko wrote:is the long term goal having less redboxes but more powerfull ships like incursions and sleepers ?
I would really like that, it's a pain killing all these little things who loot nothing and have no chance killing us, and I don't even talk about thinking of salvaging these...
When you kill a sleeper frigate you don't have the impression of losing your time, cause this thing hurt, have lots of scamble, neut or web so it's real dangerous, but it does also loot not bad. a nullsec frigate however... it may scramble and need to be killed quickly in this case, but you two shot it, and it loot nothing. so you only have the impression of losing your time. Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them.
Actual Feedback: You are my new favourite CCP Employee for saying that. I don't care that you do it in small steps. I don't care that some people now actually need to pay attention during combat. This rocks. I tried a few missions and this is a step in the right direction.
Random Future dreams: I want to see NPC's warp away when they are damaged, forcing you to tackle them. I want to see NPC's switch laser crystals when they can't reach their optimals because you are faster. I want to see NPC's that can actually see that they are losing, and brake off the fight all together after a while (unless they are defending something worth dying over).
I would love to see the navy's actually send out NPC fleets that use the actual gates to patrol the FW systems and eventually run into an enemy NPC fleet... or even get up in Sansha's face... or NPC pirate fleets that force structures into reinforced mode, warp off, and return later to actually finish the job... unless the players defend of course.
But I also want to see NPC's (rarely, and randomly) make mistakes, or try daring things, they should be able to surprise you once in a while.
Ah, and randomised NPC and environment setups every time you run a mission would certainly spice up the re-playability of missions (and stop people from looking up every mission beforehand).
On account of power. NPC's that share the same hulls with players should only be slightly less powerful than the capsuleers (on the same page as a player that has skills trained to 3 or something like that). A T1 capsuleer cruiser should not be able to handle tanking 5 NPC t1 cruisers simultaneously.
Lastly I would love to see (rare) NPC's in non-combat roles. Like Mining NPC's that warp to a belt, mine, and warp back to the station to actually sell their ore. Or transport NPC's that take actual transport contracts and physically move the goods trough high-sec. Or maybe even trading NPC's that bring stuff from places where there is a surplus to places where there is scarcity.
NPC's should represent all the "non-capsuleer piloted ships", but at the moment they don't really do that.
*Sigh* all future dreams... but I love the fact that the first steps towards this have been taken. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
606
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Posted - 2012.09.20 22:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gisander wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Tanaka Aiko wrote:is the long term goal having less redboxes but more powerfull ships like incursions and sleepers ?
I would really like that, it's a pain killing all these little things who loot nothing and have no chance killing us, and I don't even talk about thinking of salvaging these...
When you kill a sleeper frigate you don't have the impression of losing your time, cause this thing hurt, have lots of scamble, neut or web so it's real dangerous, but it does also loot not bad. a nullsec frigate however... it may scramble and need to be killed quickly in this case, but you two shot it, and it loot nothing. so you only have the impression of losing your time. Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them. Actual Feedback:You are my new favourite CCP Employee for saying that. I don't care that you do it in small steps. I don't care that some people now actually need to pay attention during combat. This rocks. I tried a few missions and this is a step in the right direction. Random Future dreams:I want to see NPC's warp away when they are damaged, forcing you to tackle them. I want to see NPC's switch laser crystals when they can't reach their optimals because you are faster. I want to see NPC's that can actually see that they are losing, and brake off the fight all together after a while (unless they are defending something worth dying over). I would love to see the navy's actually send out NPC fleets that use the actual gates to patrol the FW systems and eventually run into an enemy NPC fleet... or even get up in Sansha's face... or NPC pirate fleets that force structures into reinforced mode, warp off, and return later to actually finish the job... unless the players defend of course. But I also want to see NPC's (rarely, and randomly) make mistakes, or try daring things, they should be able to surprise you once in a while. Ah, and randomised NPC and environment setups every time you run a mission would certainly spice up the re-playability of missions (and stop people from looking up every mission beforehand). On account of power. NPC's that share the same hulls with players should only be slightly less powerful than the capsuleers (on the same page as a player that has skills trained to 3 or something like that). A T1 capsuleer cruiser should not be able to handle tanking 5 NPC t1 cruisers simultaneously. Lastly I would love to see (rare) NPC's in non-combat roles. Like Mining NPC's that warp to a belt, mine, and warp back to the station to actually sell their ore. Or transport NPC's that take actual transport contracts and physically move the goods trough high-sec. Or maybe even trading NPC's that bring stuff from places where there is a surplus to places where there is scarcity. NPC's should represent all the "non-capsuleer piloted ships", but at the moment they don't really do that. *Sigh* all future dreams... but I love the fact that the first steps towards this have been taken.
Man, we share so much of the same dream. If your mission is to go kill a specific person and he is losing, he should indeed try to warp away and you should have to try and keep him on the field. If he gets away, well something.
All of that is really good ideas and I can tell you we do think alike.
Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Denidil
Evocations of Shadow Eternal Evocations
524
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Posted - 2012.09.20 22:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Tanaka Aiko wrote:is the long term goal having less redboxes but more powerfull ships like incursions and sleepers ?
I would really like that, it's a pain killing all these little things who loot nothing and have no chance killing us, and I don't even talk about thinking of salvaging these...
When you kill a sleeper frigate you don't have the impression of losing your time, cause this thing hurt, have lots of scamble, neut or web so it's real dangerous, but it does also loot not bad. a nullsec frigate however... it may scramble and need to be killed quickly in this case, but you two shot it, and it loot nothing. so you only have the impression of losing your time. Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them.
will NPC damage be adjusted - both spectrum (all rats going full spectrum) and amount?
active tanks in pvp = sure death for most ships. Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
612
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Posted - 2012.09.20 22:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
Denidil wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Tanaka Aiko wrote:is the long term goal having less redboxes but more powerfull ships like incursions and sleepers ?
I would really like that, it's a pain killing all these little things who loot nothing and have no chance killing us, and I don't even talk about thinking of salvaging these...
When you kill a sleeper frigate you don't have the impression of losing your time, cause this thing hurt, have lots of scamble, neut or web so it's real dangerous, but it does also loot not bad. a nullsec frigate however... it may scramble and need to be killed quickly in this case, but you two shot it, and it loot nothing. so you only have the impression of losing your time. Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them. will NPC damage be adjusted - both spectrum (all rats going full spectrum) and amount? active tanks in pvp = sure death for most ships.
Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
118
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Posted - 2012.09.20 22:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
My biggest question about drone hate is, will they hate them enough that it will be impossible to AFK mission run with a super tanked ship such as a rattlesnake or dominix? As an active drone user it upsets me to see drones used in such a lazy fashion.-á Edit: I would test this right now but I am at work, I will test is once I get back on eve tonight. Ideas for drone improvement |
Denidil
Evocations of Shadow Eternal Evocations
524
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 22:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed.
tl;dr - pve will still be active tank, expect to get ganked :P
but yeah i know you have to take baby steps. Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
998
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 23:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:......... If your mission is to go kill a specific person and he is losing, he should indeed try to warp away and you should have to try and keep him on the field. If he gets away, well something.
The typical thing that is done in other games with PvE is the mission fails. You get a popup "mission fails". At that point the agent should just say "Better luck next time". You get no reward from the agent, but no penalty either (other than wasted time and effort). No status drop, no activation of the 4 hour timer on declining or abandoning a mission. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
998
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 23:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:......
Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed. There are things this change does that is not balanced.
It makes drone boats less useful. It hurts fleets.
vs.
The solo pilot using turrets or missiles is unaffected.
To balance out the effect on drone boats and fleets by reducing the difficulty of the NPCs just makes it easier for the solo pilot using turrets or missiles. The unbalance remains.
Maybe you should talk to others about a small buff to drones and fleets. I suggested:
When drones are set to aggressive, they aggro on enemy ships shooting you when launched without having to wait for a new enemy to shoot you.
My drones and my fleet mates be designated "cooperative targets". This means I can get a target lock on them much faster than normal. This would help with remote reps. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
395
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 23:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:......
Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed. There are things this change does that is not balanced. It makes drone boats less useful. It hurts fleets. vs. The solo pilot using turrets or missiles is unaffected. To balance out the effect on drone boats and fleets by reducing the difficulty of the NPCs just makes it easier for the solo pilot using turrets or missiles. The unbalance remains. Maybe you should talk to others about a small buff to drones and fleets. I suggested: When drones are set to aggressive, they aggro on enemy ships shooting you when launched without having to wait for a new enemy to shoot you. My drones and my fleet mates be designated "cooperative targets". This means I can get a target lock on them much faster than normal. This would help with remote reps.
That or the speed drones recall at need to be increased. I'm sure most drone mission runners have had the odd glitch once in a while where an npc will switch to a drone out of the blue, and there's really no chance you're going to be able to recall something like an ogre.
If anything, the change might make it harder to fly drone boats that can't field sentries. That's a lot of ships that will be marginalized even more, and might not be part of the ship rebalancing.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
637
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Posted - 2012.09.21 11:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:......
Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed. There are things this change does that is not balanced. It makes drone boats less useful. It hurts fleets. vs. The solo pilot using turrets or missiles is unaffected. To balance out the effect on drone boats and fleets by reducing the difficulty of the NPCs just makes it easier for the solo pilot using turrets or missiles. The unbalance remains. Maybe you should talk to others about a small buff to drones and fleets. I suggested: When drones are set to aggressive, they aggro on enemy ships shooting you when launched without having to wait for a new enemy to shoot you. My drones and my fleet mates be designated "cooperative targets". This means I can get a target lock on them much faster than normal. This would help with remote reps.
So far in our testing this change has not hurt either of those two groups.
Drone users: I flew a Dominix into Angel Extravaganza, I began with taking aggro, then I launched light drones to kill off the frigates. While my light drones were out the frigates switched their fire to them, but I dispatched them quickly enough that it was of no concern. Then I switched to heavies and moved on. The whole mission maybe took me a few minutes longer, but based on how long the overall mission took it was not that much of a change. I didn't lose a drone through out it either. So if our "nerf" to drone users is that they have to pay more attention to the game and interact with it, well we can live with that.
Fleets: I ran a mission dual boxing a logi ship and a DPS ship. My DPS ship carried some logi drones, and my logi ship carried DPS drones. I had to pay some more attention to what was going on, but my logi ship had enough buffer to survive every encounter when paired with a few logi drones. The nice thing is that because the logi ship did not need to run its reps the whole mission, as my DPS ship was not always the target, I could change the fit to be less cap stable and add more buffer/resistance.
Both of these groups will have to change and adapt to the new gameplay, but so long as they put a bit of effort into they can more than easily come up with a new plan that works just as well. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
443
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Posted - 2012.09.21 11:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:......
Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed. There are things this change does that is not balanced. It makes drone boats less useful. It hurts fleets. vs. The solo pilot using turrets or missiles is unaffected. To balance out the effect on drone boats and fleets by reducing the difficulty of the NPCs just makes it easier for the solo pilot using turrets or missiles. The unbalance remains. Maybe you should talk to others about a small buff to drones and fleets. I suggested: When drones are set to aggressive, they aggro on enemy ships shooting you when launched without having to wait for a new enemy to shoot you. My drones and my fleet mates be designated "cooperative targets". This means I can get a target lock on them much faster than normal. This would help with remote reps. So far in our testing this change has not hurt either of those two groups. Drone users: I flew a Dominix into Angel Extravaganza, I began with taking aggro, then I launched light drones to kill off the frigates. While my light drones were out the frigates switched their fire to them, but I dispatched them quickly enough that it was of no concern. Then I switched to heavies and moved on. The whole mission maybe took me a few minutes longer, but based on how long the overall mission took it was not that much of a change. I didn't lose a drone through out it either. So if our "nerf" to drone users is that they have to pay more attention to the game and interact with it, well we can live with that. Fleets: I ran a mission dual boxing a logi ship and a DPS ship. My DPS ship carried some logi drones, and my logi ship carried DPS drones. I had to pay some more attention to what was going on, but my logi ship had enough buffer to survive every encounter when paired with a few logi drones. The nice thing is that because the logi ship did not need to run its reps the whole mission, as my DPS ship was not always the target, I could change the fit to be less cap stable and add more buffer/resistance. Both of these groups will have to change and adapt to the new gameplay, but so long as they put a bit of effort into they can more than easily come up with a new plan that works just as well. This is good stuff :) eventually forcing people to use setups that would be useful in pvp even
SO... when you guys get far enough, how will you make warp scram/disruptors useful in pve? What if rats were likely to attempt warping away when going into structure? (And maybe come back a min later having repaired some of its tank)
Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Gary Bell
Odyssey Inc SpaceMonkey's Alliance
16
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Posted - 2012.09.21 11:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
My BIGGEST question is how is this going to affect the aggro in complexes like the maze? I understand what you are trying to do but this is really going to hurt complex runners. It takes a very specific ship to run the maze and be able to tank so I mean where does this leave us?
When I bring in my tank ship to grab aggro from your stupidly overpowered Citidel torp that can only be tanked by like 4 ships in game total and I going to have to worry about all the webbers switching to my Mach and popping it in one volley?
If that is the plan then I give this a thumbs down..
I think you guys really need to look into the 10 of 10s specifically because this is really going to hurt that type of PVE content..
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
403
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Posted - 2012.09.21 11:44:00 -
[50] - Quote
I just hope you're keeping in contact with the ship redesign team. If people are going to need to fit TE/TC/TD and web/scrams to their pve ships too, as well as need a bigger drone bay to replace drones killed in action, that team needs to be aware.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
639
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Posted - 2012.09.21 12:14:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:I just hope you're keeping in contact with the ship redesign team. If people are going to need to fit TE/TC/TD and web/scrams to their pve ships too, as well as need a bigger drone bay to replace drones killed in action, that team needs to be aware.
The guys doing ship balancing sit right behind me, are in most of the meetings, and are fully aware of what we are doing. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
74
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Posted - 2012.09.21 13:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
One of the things nagging at me is that with this change the NPCs have the ability to destroy the drone-using pilot's DPS. The same is not true of the turret-using pilot, and is not presently true of the missile-using pilot (but could be; can you say "firewall NPC" ?). How are you addressing the introduction of this imbalance?
MDD |
Buzz Skywalker
Magnificent Mayhem Mining
0
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Posted - 2012.09.21 14:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
I like this, and I hope it means that PvE will finally be able to support a solid risk/reward balance without having to rely on players to provide the additional risk at the top end. Pure PvE players should lose ships, too. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
873
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Posted - 2012.09.21 14:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't think the L4 missions are the biggest concerns.
You need to really look at the L5's and 6/10s-10/10s DED Complexes.
Those are where things go above and beyond the normal range of DPS/EWAR and so on. There are some ridiculous structures in those sites that need looking into. I'll try and get on the server this weekend.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Josmak Drama
The Kargatane Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2012.09.21 16:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Gary Bell wrote:My BIGGEST question is how is this going to affect the aggro in complexes like the maze? I understand what you are trying to do but this is really going to hurt complex runners. It takes a very specific ship to run the maze and be able to tank so I mean where does this leave us?
When I bring in my tank ship to grab aggro from your stupidly overpowered Citidel torp that can only be tanked by like 4 ships in game total and I going to have to worry about all the webbers switching to my Mach and popping it in one volley?
If that is the plan then I give this a thumbs down..
I think you guys really need to look into the 10 of 10s specifically because this is really going to hurt that type of PVE content..
^^ This. I never quite understood why The Maze's Citadel Torp was EM to begin with, but that's another discussion (as is the discussion as to why the loot table for The Maze is sub-par compared to other 10/10's while being the hardest one to complete). My only concern with this change is if the Citadel torpedo's in DED complexes and escilation sites switches aggro like the rest of the ratts. I really like the change otherwise. I like having a challenge of sorts, managing aggro and ensuring my drones are still alive. Now if we could get random waves and the such thrown in just to keep us honest. I can't tell you how sad it is that I can follow a wiki from 4-5yrs ago and know exactly what is coming and when while running complexes...(and exploration sites, and missions, and...). At least make us adjust our strategies on a yearly basis at a minimum! That said, keep up the good work! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1001
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Posted - 2012.09.21 16:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Drone users: I flew a Dominix into Angel Extravaganza, I began with taking aggro, then I launched light drones to kill off the frigates. While my light drones were out the frigates switched their fire to them, but I dispatched them quickly enough that it was of no concern. Then I switched to heavies and moved on. The whole mission maybe took me a few minutes longer, but based on how long the overall mission took it was not that much of a change. I didn't lose a drone through out it either. So if our "nerf" to drone users is that they have to pay more attention to the game and interact with it, well we can live with that.
.......
Try Blockade L4 vs Guristas with a Domi. Also the Serpentis version. The issue is you get jammed and then cannot direct the drones. The drones catch aggro, so you got to pull them in. On re-deploying them, they just sit there. You cannot get them to attack even if they are on aggressive until you can lock a target, or an enemy ship misses a jam, then hits you again. While you are waiting for that, the drones catch aggro again requiring you to pull them in. The cycle of frustration repeats. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Laventhros Ormus
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.09.21 16:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
I think the new changes to barges, as well as this change to the NPC rats will level each other out.
However, I do agree that complexes like The Maze will be nearly impossible to run with <10 people. |
Gary Bell
Odyssey Inc SpaceMonkey's Alliance
17
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Posted - 2012.09.21 17:04:00 -
[58] - Quote
Gary Bell wrote:My BIGGEST question is how is this going to affect the aggro in complexes like the maze? I understand what you are trying to do but this is really going to hurt complex runners. It takes a very specific ship to run the maze and be able to tank so I mean where does this leave us?
When I bring in my tank ship to grab aggro from your stupidly overpowered Citidel torp that can only be tanked by like 4 ships in game total and I going to have to worry about all the webbers switching to my Mach and popping it in one volley?
If that is the plan then I give this a thumbs down..
I think you guys really need to look into the 10 of 10s specifically because this is really going to hurt that type of PVE content..
SO can I expect to see an answer to this? Cuz i think this is going to be one of your biggest issues? If you have to fly three 4 Bil is t3s to complete the maze cuz the citidel torp changes aggro, or if I am going to have logi getting insta popped because all the web and scram frigs swap to my logi and alpha it?
This really needs to be looked at and answered? |
Hikaru Deran
Konzil der Drei Ewoks
0
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Posted - 2012.09.21 17:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
I dislike the change.
Why?
- drones are the worst damage system ... even if they have "xxx" DPS they need to travel to the target - i look at you 60km orbiting gurista Battleships, - worse case scenary they need to fly 120km ... Ogre II: 840m/s. Same for elitecruiser orbit at 40km range and Hammerhead II with 1680m/s -> so i only can take small drones (speedy enough) or sentrys (stationary damage projection) as drones ... medium and heavy are then for PvP only - If i get damped/ecmed I cannot project the damage ... drones need a new ship to shoot me to react if to late deployed - The drone AI is so bad that if i am jamemd/damped and cannot choose manually the new target sentrys choose a 3000meter orbiting frig as target ... damage dealt: 0 for 20 seconds or 50 seconds to get a target if damped - supposed I am in lockrange (and if i need to travel to get into lockrange I cannot use the sentrys) - IF i shoot the triger I normaly need to pull back the drones because of aggro (lost DPS, they get damage while flying thanks to mwd siganture bonus) - IF they switch on my drone while I tank i need to pull back 1 drone - i loose 1/5 off dronedamage, which is on droneship aorund 10-20% depending on the setup, and hope they switch on me and not on the next drone. - right now the dronebays are to small so I cannot have enough "spare" drones of all sorts -> I need to warp out to get new ones in a droneship ... and if i need to travel to gates in missions it's a waste of time - an elitefrig can be killed with 4 small drones or 5, just takes longer, so turret/missile boats are mostly uneffected - if the webfrig gets a medium or heavy drone it is dead. period. Small droens have little chance of survival. No counter possible. (I look at you rooms with 5 elitefrigs or spider drones). And a web drone get soloed fast.
Also the combination with the gallente ship streamlining (less shield, less armor, more structure) gives the droneboats less eHP so they role as tank get's cut too. And a PvP structure tank? who are you kidding. Just a hint for the guy behind you: give gallente scaling % HP, armarr % resist and all would be fine.
Right now a droneboat has more to do then any other shiptype and need more skills to train (weapons AND drones). I need to fire my guns (including ammo switch for ranges) like every other boat AND mircomanage my drones - with the change even more ... and all that to do the same damage as other ships which only hit f1. And that is then called "ballance".
I do realze that afk-flying with droneboats is possible and done in complexes and even possible in mission without respawns (extravaganza f.e.). But i do not think pummeling all gallentepilots for that behavior is the right choice.
Sincerly |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
660
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Posted - 2012.09.21 17:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote: I don't think the L4 missions are the biggest concerns.
You need to really look at the L5's and 6/10s-10/10s DED Complexes.
Those are where things go above and beyond the normal range of DPS/EWAR and so on. There are some ridiculous structures in those sites that need looking into. I'll try and get on the server this weekend.
I would agree with you on this. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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