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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 81 post(s) |
MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
114
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:MIrple wrote:I love the changes. I hope this is just one of several to the NPC AI as it is very much in need of an overhaul. I had put up a discussion about making a few sites out in null to be more like incursion sites to break up the boorishness of running anoms but this is a great first step.
While we are talking about Brains. Can any of you comment about the brain in a box idea talked about at fan fest will we be seeing this in the winter to at a later date.
Which brain in a box idea is this? I have heard of a few...
The one that was geared at our skill set causing lag when docking/undocking and jumping through gates. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
494
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Bienator II wrote:will FW NPCs receive special treatment? Special in what way? Why would we? i suppose they have now jobs like defend the beacon, don't interfere with pvp etc while still being able to kill pve fitted sigtankers. or am i wrong? otherwise people will just use two alts to farm them. one to pull the npcs away and one to orbit the plex. (if they switch targets, switch jobs)
Right now they are really dumb and all just shoot the first thing they can. Even if there is PvP they will stomp right on over to the first target they can. That being said there are changes coming to FW from other teams that I can't talk about but can say to keep an eye out for. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
494
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:03:00 -
[63] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:What about sites like Dread Guristas Fleet Staging Point 3? There is a Guristas Fleet Stronghold that launches Citadel Torpedos every 30 seconds. It will obliterate any subcap support for the capital already required to tank it if it switches targets. Or is it expected some sites become cap only?
To be honest I am not familiar with this site and will have to test it. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Nickabocka Glory
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
What will happen to the risk reward balance of high, low and null sec NPCs?
Making NPCs harder sounds like fun but the extra time and effort required to kill them needs to be reflected in their value. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
659
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:03:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:MIrple wrote:I love the changes. I hope this is just one of several to the NPC AI as it is very much in need of an overhaul. I had put up a discussion about making a few sites out in null to be more like incursion sites to break up the boorishness of running anoms but this is a great first step.
While we are talking about Brains. Can any of you comment about the brain in a box idea talked about at fan fest will we be seeing this in the winter to at a later date.
Which brain in a box idea is this? I have heard of a few...
It'll be the one to reduce the session change time, when you jump, by keeping all the pilot details separate, rather than torn down, the brought back up. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
494
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
MIrple wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:MIrple wrote:I love the changes. I hope this is just one of several to the NPC AI as it is very much in need of an overhaul. I had put up a discussion about making a few sites out in null to be more like incursion sites to break up the boorishness of running anoms but this is a great first step.
While we are talking about Brains. Can any of you comment about the brain in a box idea talked about at fan fest will we be seeing this in the winter to at a later date.
Which brain in a box idea is this? I have heard of a few... The one that was geared at our skill set causing lag when docking/undocking and jumping through gates.
Oh, that one. Not something that is even close to my area so cannot even being to say anything about it. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
494
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
Nickabocka Glory wrote:What will happen to the risk reward balance of high, low and null sec NPCs?
Making NPCs harder sounds like fun but the extra time and effort required to kill them needs to be reflected in their value.
This should not really make them that much harder to kill, actually it is not changing their tank or DPS at all. So killing time should not change. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
114
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:What about sites like Dread Guristas Fleet Staging Point 3? There is a Guristas Fleet Stronghold that launches Citadel Torpedos every 30 seconds. It will obliterate any subcap support for the capital already required to tank it if it switches targets. Or is it expected some sites become cap only? To be honest I am not familiar with this site and will have to test it.
There are ways to tank this with a subcap ship you either need small sig and speed or a Command Ship or Heavy Dictor with logi support. I am sure there might be other ways but these are two ways to deal with this. The capital is just the quickest way as you have enough damage to kill it quickly. |
Aethlyn
EVE University Ivy League
134
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
Sounds really interesting and will definitely try this out. Also, I don't think there's any massive issue when playing together with newer players.
Over the last few months I've ran missions with lots of new pilots, many who just jumped into their first cruiser.
Sure, we usually kept the aggro on the Battleships and Battlecruisers, but even then, it sometime happened they targeted the "li'l buddy". But then? He can just warp off and return (or try to tank the damage).
IMO these changes are even an advantage for such occassions: It should now be even less likely for fresh spawning Battlecruisers/Battleships to immeditely target and try to pop that poor guy that wanted to have a look at Level 4 missions with his Frigate or Cruiser.
Different Question: Could you use this AI iteration to improve the behavior of NPC Industrials a bit? I'm talking about the usual Personnel Transporters in some missions. I always feel it's rather dumb to see them charging player ships, rather than trying to stay away. They can't outrun players anyway, so this would be a nice addition and it would look less suicidal. :) Looking for more thoughts? Read http://aethlyn.blogspot.com/ or follow me on http://twitter.com/Aethlyn. |
Sturmwolke
290
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:07:00 -
[70] - Quote
L1 AI in L4 missions? ... ahaha ... it'll be very bloody the first few weeks
As for the drones issue, you have a mechanism to save them (by re-calling and re-launching) but it's too archaic/clunky/fidgety for extended use. Fix this and it'll alleviate some of the major issues facing drone boats. I propose an auto-recall function when drone hits a user specified amount of dmg but keep the launch/re-launch manual.
Edit: This also looks like another indirect nerf to L4 income if it changes L4 missioning in such a way that it affects the avg pilot's completion time. The lessons from the incursion changes are still fresh in mind. |
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Mors Magne
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
35
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
This is why I keep subscribing to Eve Online - it's the constant improvements.
AI is a really important aspect of gameplay.
The more interesting the AI is the better. |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
1869
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:08:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Jackie Fisher wrote:Will they pod? I tried man, I tried. :( Something about us losing subscribers or something about angering our players instead of making them happy.
My suggestion to just put this live and not tell anyone or even put it in the patch notes was also rejected.
It would have been hilarious... Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University |
Aethlyn
EVE University Ivy League
134
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:L1 AI in L4 missions? ... ahaha ... it'll be very bloody the first few weeks Why? IMO what makes Sleepers and (Incursion) Sansha more dangerous than the usual pirates are their stats: Speed, Health and Damage. That's nothing touched by just switching the underlying AI, considering most people run missions solo or in small groups only anyway. It might screw up people flying AFK drone boats, but at the same time it's something you shouldn't do anyway (why pay to play a game, when you don't even play then?). Looking for more thoughts? Read http://aethlyn.blogspot.com/ or follow me on http://twitter.com/Aethlyn. |
Chaunnay Solette
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Nickabocka Glory wrote:What will happen to the risk reward balance of high, low and null sec NPCs?
Making NPCs harder sounds like fun but the extra time and effort required to kill them needs to be reflected in their value. This should not really make them that much harder to kill, actually it is not changing their tank or DPS at all. So killing time should not change.
Unless your're having to recall your heavies every three minutes. :) I guess we'll have to wait and see what the drone hate looks like. (Currently, NPCs will aggro on drones in many l4s... are we talking about generally the same aggro across all missions now? more? less?)
Thanks Fox! |
Rezard
Fornax Chemica COALICION HISPANA
3
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:13:00 -
[75] - Quote
I'll start manufacturing all the ravens that will die to this, tho probably drones should be more valuable haha.
I personally like the idea and support this a lot, it will be a game changer for something that has become static and plain repetitive.
Some suggestion: Please please please tell your people to make a shortcut to launch drones, and that is!
I think the logistic pilots and drones will have to look out for themselves now, while solo players or spider tankers will be a new approach! |
Deathwing Reborn
39
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Deathwing Reborn wrote:Ok, now that you are making normal NPC's more interesting. When are you going to finally make something that will make things fun for ratting in Capitals? There are plenty of people that rat in carriers in Null Sec, that are fighting waves of NPCs that can be taken out in a single battleship. When are we going to start to see NPC capitals on the field or new sites in 0.0 that will make things challenging for someone in a carrier again?
The horde sites in the drone regions used to be decent because you could pop all the bunkers and have enough NPC dps to actually threaten your carrier if you wernt careful. Now its just a joke. There are many missions where NPCs are building capitals but we never see them to shoot them. And for those who will moan at grinding NPC capital HP, you could always continue with the current easy mode sites. To be honest we need to make our PvE content more enjoyable for everyone first. While this step will hopefully help, there is a lot more work to be done. Continuing the honesty I don't think the ratting capitals are our highest priority. Hopefully we can continue to make changes that effect most everyone though and not focus to much on one segment.
That is a typical response that I would expect from CCP by this point. I received the same type of answer when the drone regions lost drone alloys and they were not replaced with anything at all. "Right now we have better things to spend our time on than spend 1 day to create or copy a loot table." Just one more instance of making a good iteration on something and then leaving it done half arsed.
Capital pilots aside, since you are making changes to the AI again why can you not make an AI for NPC capitals and make some more interesting content? There are too few missions / complexes that require more that 1 person in a sub cap to complete. |
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
91
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:16:00 -
[77] - Quote
Pretty cool.
I'm presuming the NPC rat AI as it is currently has been this way since time immemorial, right? If so, I guess it would be reasonable to assume that all missions, complexes and anoms since then have been designed by Devs based around the way NPCs have always worked.
With the new NPC AI templates for these everyday NPCs, are you guys going to keep in mind the possibility that a specific mission, complex or anom's "reasonableness" might be drastically altered beyond the what's intended because of its specific layout or NPC size grouping?
I like these changes, just from a design standpoint I'm presuming that current dungeon difficulty is based on current NPC behavior... and now this is going to take that design flow and reverse... something which usually brings highly unintended side effects.
/T |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
616
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:16:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Nickabocka Glory wrote:What will happen to the risk reward balance of high, low and null sec NPCs?
Making NPCs harder sounds like fun but the extra time and effort required to kill them needs to be reflected in their value. This should not really make them that much harder to kill, actually it is not changing their tank or DPS at all. So killing time should not change. And could lead to hilarity regarding ninja salvagers, canflippers and suicide gankers when the rats attack them...
thusly making Hi-Sec safer yet?
TIME WILL TELL!
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
498
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:L1 AI in L4 missions? ... ahaha ... it'll be very bloody the first few weeks As for the drones issue, you have a mechanism to save them (by re-calling and re-launching) but it's too archaic/clunky/fidgety for extended use. Fix this and it'll alleviate some of the major issues facing drone boats. I propose an auto-recall function when drone hits a user specified amount of dmg but keep the launch/re-launch manual. Edit: This also looks like another indirect nerf to L4 income if it changes L4 missioning in such a way that it affects the avg pilot's completion time. The lessons from the incursion changes are still fresh in mind.
Shift+R recalls drones... I do agree though that system needs some work. We will be keeping an eye on the income generated from L4 missions as we do have graphs and statistics for this. :) Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4662
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:16:00 -
[80] - Quote
Fantastic news, long overdue!
Let's hope this is but the first step towards genuinely challenging PvE. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
249
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:17:00 -
[81] - Quote
This sounds both hilarious, and superb. It's been a long time coming...
I know you don't have time, at the moment, to tweak individual missions, but when you do... Please look at making spawn-triggers less predictable. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
498
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Aethlyn wrote:Sturmwolke wrote:L1 AI in L4 missions? ... ahaha ... it'll be very bloody the first few weeks Why? IMO what makes Sleepers and (Incursion) Sansha more dangerous than the usual pirates are their stats: Speed, Health and Damage. That's nothing touched by just switching the underlying AI, considering most people run missions solo or in small groups only anyway. It might screw up people flying AFK drone boats, but at the same time it's something you shouldn't do anyway (why pay to play a game, when you don't even play then?).
To be honest one of my concerns is people abusing the target switching to take even less tank into the mission. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4662
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:19:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Louis deGuerre wrote:BRAIIIIIIINNNNNS BRAIIIINNNNSSSS This is going to be soooooo much fun. I can already taste the sea of tears A sea of tears over this... you should have seen what else we wanted the NPC to do. What "did" you want to them to do? Pods. Lots and lots of pod kills. That and I heard something about NPC's with cynos when someone brings a capital on the field.
Whatever needs to happen for this to be done, I will do it.
Anything. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4662
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:20:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Aethlyn wrote:Sturmwolke wrote:L1 AI in L4 missions? ... ahaha ... it'll be very bloody the first few weeks Why? IMO what makes Sleepers and (Incursion) Sansha more dangerous than the usual pirates are their stats: Speed, Health and Damage. That's nothing touched by just switching the underlying AI, considering most people run missions solo or in small groups only anyway. It might screw up people flying AFK drone boats, but at the same time it's something you shouldn't do anyway (why pay to play a game, when you don't even play then?). To be honest one of my concerns is people abusing the target switching to take even less tank into the mission.
Give the NPCs better FCs! Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
X4ver
The Eden Trading International Corporation Curatores Veritatis Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:20:00 -
[85] - Quote
I welcome the idea of this but i have serious concerns about DED 8/10 and 10/10 currently you have to have a "supertanked" ab t2/t3 to tank (in our case, where its sanshas, a loki with 95/95 resists) to probperly tank. Making the nps aggro randomly dps ships will make a lot of ppl pop or it will take a large group of players which is contraproductive since there is no guaranteed drop apart from the tag to make it worth spending an hour or so to get nothing in the end- pretty much crap imo :P |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
498
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:23:00 -
[86] - Quote
Deathwing Reborn wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Deathwing Reborn wrote:Ok, now that you are making normal NPC's more interesting. When are you going to finally make something that will make things fun for ratting in Capitals? There are plenty of people that rat in carriers in Null Sec, that are fighting waves of NPCs that can be taken out in a single battleship. When are we going to start to see NPC capitals on the field or new sites in 0.0 that will make things challenging for someone in a carrier again?
The horde sites in the drone regions used to be decent because you could pop all the bunkers and have enough NPC dps to actually threaten your carrier if you wernt careful. Now its just a joke. There are many missions where NPCs are building capitals but we never see them to shoot them. And for those who will moan at grinding NPC capital HP, you could always continue with the current easy mode sites. To be honest we need to make our PvE content more enjoyable for everyone first. While this step will hopefully help, there is a lot more work to be done. Continuing the honesty I don't think the ratting capitals are our highest priority. Hopefully we can continue to make changes that effect most everyone though and not focus to much on one segment. That is a typical response that I would expect from CCP by this point. I received the same type of answer when the drone regions lost drone alloys and they were not replaced with anything at all. "Right now we have better things to spend our time on than spend 1 day to create or copy a loot table." Just one more instance of making a good iteration on something and then leaving it done half arsed. Capital pilots aside, since you are making changes to the AI again why can you not make an AI for NPC capitals and make some more interesting content? There are too few missions / complexes that require more that 1 person in a sub cap to complete.
Adding NPC capital ships is going to take more than copying a loot table. Just saying. Unless I am missing something else. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
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Meryen Anais
The Polaris Axis
0
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:24:00 -
[87] - Quote
Does the new change also apply to user drones themselves? If you're permajammed by guristas, they can become targeted. After recall, do they again target your enemies again without you being able to target anything?
Oh, as a fan of taking toilet breaks whenever a blockade or gone berserk turns up: not amused
//semi-afk droneboatee |
Sturmwolke
290
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:24:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Shift+R recalls drones... I do agree though that system needs some work. That it does ... for a whole flight. The more discerning drone users recall drones individually. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
696
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
So basically you're nerfing nullsec personal income again. When do you guys plan to make it compelling for a pilot to live in their space instead of farming missions on an alt? Since you've got a huge obsession with nuking alliance level income, alliances really need their pilots to want to live in their space so they can tax their activities. This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
fofofo |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9526
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Posted - 2012.09.20 15:27:00 -
[90] - Quote
Excellent and long overdue!
As a part of this, has there been any thought to go through the NPCs and give them more GÇ£realGÇ¥ weapons? ECM was a classic case of the NPCs cheating but not using the ECM rules until that one was fixed, for instance, and while they may use the same hit and damage rules, a lot of rats still fire rather improbable weapons (150km torps, grid-wide webs and tracking disruptors, 90% webs, etc.).
After all, if the idea is for them to behave more like GÇ£realGÇ¥ enemies, taking away their h4x might be a good idea as wellGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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