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Minmatar vs Caldari ships for PvE missioning

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Rodney Spears	Posted - 2011.07.17 02:41:00 - [1] I know this is probably one of those preference questions. Reason I'm asking is because a few weeks ago when I was reading about best mission runners, the general concensus was using drone boats and missions are easy. Well, Drone boating is effective obviously, but it's boring me to death. At the moment I've got Caldari Frig's to lvl 4 and Minmatar to lvl 3. I'm just looking to finish up the SoE Arc then start into some lvl 1 or 2 missions. Now, this is where my title comes in. Just looking for a more active game play. I have more skills into Missles than small projectiles, and a lot more skills into shield tanking then Armor tanking is that makes a difference. So Minmatar or Caldari for missioning? I under the impression Minmatar's are mainly for PvP, but then again I'm less than 2 months old to the game so in no way do I know much of what I'm talking about.
Patri Andari Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2011.07.17 03:17:00 - [2] Welcome to Eve! I do not have any suggestions for you although many will no doubt chime in. I do have some advice however. Make sure you pay close attention to the skill plans behind some of the ships others might suggest in this thread. Although many ships out there can get the job done, you do not want to spend years training skills just to be effective earning isk through PVE. So when folks enter this thread suggesting all manner of faction battleships and such, think about the ships you will pilot on the way to that ship and how effective they will be in earning isk on your way to that perfect ship. For example Macherial requires Gallente and Minmatar battleship trained. If you choose to train for that ship, consider what ships you will use as you progress up the skill tree and how effective they are at PVE. HTH Patri I'll Roshambo You For That Titan!
DemetRYS Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.17 03:21:00 - [3] Missions are boring in general. That said, either path has viable fast-paced alternatives to your current situation. For caldari it is the tengu, for minmatar it's the macharial. If you like the idea of marauders though, i'd reccomend minmatar. I find the vargur > golem simply because you're rarely wanting for range (barrage gives much greater range than jav torps) and you do not need a lot of mids and rigs dedicated to your dps (target painters, hyd bay thrusters, rocket cache part) either. So really, it's a matter of taste: counting missile volleys vs. working in fall-off range. I currently use a tengu and vargur on a somewhat regular basis so I have no personal preference to add.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.17 08:20:00 - [4] The effectiveness of the ship depends on the rats your fighting Missiles and Projectiles are good because they do all damage types. Drones boats are slow for running missions IMHO so their isk per hour efficiency is not very high compared to the Caldari and Minmatar PVE platforms. I don't know if you play to get into PVP at all or just do PVE content, but when it comes to thinking about your skill plan and what ships to fly it's not really a big deal, you'll end up training most of it up at some point even if it's just for the pirate faction ships. So lets say you go all out on Minmatar ships and you want to fly a Mach, train Gal BS IV takes 5 days, hardly a big loss of skill training. When I started in EVE Online I trained Caldari, cos I thought their ships looked cool for the most part. They was also good for PVE content and I knew I would spend a lot of time in Caldari space at the start doing missions making money and learning things. I went Drake (L3 / L4) then CNR, then Tengu. If you plan to go into PVP, then cross training Caldari / Minmatar works pretty well (which is what I did) both use missiles and shields, the armour skills you need for the other Minmatar ships can come later and are not as skill intensive as shields. tl;dr If your in Caldari space I recommend you go Caldari if your in Minmatar space then yeah you get the picture. Overall training for both races works pretty well. Follow Flynn on Twitter
Noemi Nagano	Posted - 2011.07.17 09:29:00 - [5] Edited by: Noemi Nagano on 17/07/2011 09:29:21 IMO in Marauder and BS both races are fairly equal - Machariel (being not plain Minmatar ofc) is probably the best pirate faction BS, Vargur the best gunnery-Marauder. CNR on the other hand is a very viable mission ship (Cruise-fitted), and the Golem can obliterate any mission fastest or very close to fastest contenders (Torp-fitted). The Tengu is by far the best t3 in PvE. But like others said before - you wont be able to really use one of those in the next weeks, at least not with great success ;) The Drake is the strongest BC in PvE and the only one which is really capable of doing l4 missions in a reasonable timeframe and not yet maxed skills. Cross-Skilling to Minmatar is done pretty fast too, and you would have a steady and nice income-base in the time you are preparing for other stuff like PvP (in which Minmatar-ships are very nice).
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2011.07.17 09:51:00 - [6] consider this : it is not op just minmatar matar is the best in everything so in pve too and you dont have to train out another race just to do pvp nerf matar
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2011.07.17 13:00:00 - [7] Edited by: Gavin DeVries on 17/07/2011 13:00:45 I have used both, though for level 4 missions I don't have much Minmatar experience. For missioning, it basically boils down to a missiles vs projectiles debate, because the Caldari gun options suck compared to missiles. Missiles are generally easy to use in missions. They always hit as long as the target is in range. You are immune to tracking disruption (Blood Raiders and Sansha both do this as their form of Ewar, though Blood Raiders toss in energy neutralizers as well). Good support skills are necessary if you want to do any damage to ships smaller than the missile type is intended to hit. Battleship missiles are mainly going to suck at hitting frigates so you'll need some drones to kill those. Missiles generally have extreme range, because in missions most people are using the long range versions. It's not unusual to be able to hit rats as far out as your ship's lock range. Projectiles are tougher because you have to worry about optional range, falloff, and tracking. NPCs with tracking disruptors can really screw you. However, you apply damage instantly; there's no delay between firing and impact. With proper use, you can hit frigates with battleship guns, and often pop them instantly when you do. Especially at the battleship level, damage output is normally higher. My recommendation is to start with Caldari and transition to Minmatar as your skills improve. With missiles you eventually hit a wall. The Navy Raven is probably the best cruise missile boat, but there's only so much damage you can do with cruise missiles. The Golem is better with torpedoes, but range is a huge issue there as with perfect skills you can only hit out to about 40 km with normal torpedoes or 60 km with javelins. By contrast, a Maelstrom/Vargur/Machariel with tech 2 800 mm autocannons (repeating artillery it's called in game) can easily hit into the 40-60 km range and somewhat beyond that depending on the ship and fitting. They can put out higher damage than the Navy Raven, killing things faster and thus speeding up the missions. However, it's a longer training period to be able to do that. ______________________________________________________ PVP is a question that has no one right answer but a lot of wrong ones. - Aelana Anais
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2011.07.17 13:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Gavin DeVries Missiles are generally easy to use in missions. They always hit as long as the target is in range. You are immune to tracking disruption (Blood Raiders and Sansha both do this as their form of Ewar, though Blood Raiders toss in energy neutralizers as well). However, your DPS will suffer if the rats have defender missiles (some do). This is especially true on missile boats with few launcher slots (Golem, I'm looking at you). Also, having a relatively large volley damage, missiles are prone to wasting DPS through overkill if not manages properly (e.g. you're firing a 7-missile salvo at a target that would only take one more missile to kill, effectively wasting 6 missiles). And then there's a possibility of wasting dps if you don't switch targets after firing the volley that will kill the target (missiles still in flight to a target are wasted if the target dies).
Delucian	Posted - 2011.07.17 14:44:00 - [9] Edited by: Delucian on 17/07/2011 14:46:16 Edited by: Delucian on 17/07/2011 14:45:32 Quote: My recommendation is to start with Caldari and transition to Minmatar as your skills improve. This is exactly where I am now. Trained up everything missiles, drones and found myself bored running missions. Have now swiched over to training Minmatar ships and skills. Recently got a Rifter and began playing with it. Great ship as you can fit missiles, rockets, autocannons or artillary on it, and it is almost to small and fast for anything in the PVE world to hit. Makes running missions a bit slower, but much more fun. Just loaded one out last night with artillary that does over 500 DPS and my projectile skills are crap! At 1500 M/S (3600 with a MWD - fun with two standard missile launchers) with an AB it take more management, but is great fun. The other thing I found out doing this (and trying my hand at PVP - which I died horribly in), is that training key skills (lets say for an Assalt ship) is very important. Basic frigs die quickly to an Assalt Ship and/or Inteceptor which it seems most peole in PVP fly. Training now for a Vengeance, only because I can run Rockets on it which leverages my current skills and looks to be a tough little bugger.
Noemi Nagano	Posted - 2011.07.17 15:16:00 - [10] Missiles suffer from defenders, yes. But ACs dont do their fantastic DPS-numbers on longer ranges either, a Machariel will drop to aronud Tengu-level in DPS at 55km, and from there its getting worse .. both systems have their pros and cons, know it and work with it.

Rodney Spears	Posted - 2011.07.17 18:30:00 - [11] Edited by: Rodney Spears on 17/07/2011 18:30:23 Thanks for all the replies. I do plan on getting into PvP. I have already have my rifter only fitted with tech1 stuff but when running some lvl 1 missions with it, it was fun because it was very involved. However if I was to do mission after mission, I can see how flying my little frig would get tiring. I'm going to take the advice and train into both Matar and Caldari battle cruisers before going with BS's. I think in the long run being able to use both will deffinetly keep things fresh. I do prefer shield tanking only because I hate seeing a big red line of my defenses gone before I really can do anything. anyways, thank you again for all the wisdom. I love the community here and it's the first time in a long time where I didn't feel stupid for asking questions for fear of being flamed to hell and back. =) Happy flying.
Flynn Fetladral Caldari BlackSite Prophecy	Posted - 2011.07.17 18:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Rodney Spears Edited by: Rodney Spears on 17/07/2011 18:30:23 Thanks for all the replies. I do plan on getting into PvP. I have already have my rifter only fitted with tech1 stuff but when running some lvl 1 missions with it, it was fun because it was very involved. However if I was to do mission after mission, I can see how flying my little frig would get tiring. I'm going to take the advice and train into both Matar and Caldari battle cruisers before going with BS's. I think in the long run being able to use both will deffinetly keep things fresh. I do prefer shield tanking only because I hate seeing a big red line of my defenses gone before I really can do anything. anyways, thank you again for all the wisdom. I love the community here and it's the first time in a long time where I didn't feel stupid for asking questions for fear of being flamed to hell and back. =) Happy flying. Have fun in New Eden, and good luck Follow Flynn on Twitter
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.18 06:16:00 - [13] All the races are good, teh Caldari are the best because of the drake and teh tengu.


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