Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Captain's Courageous
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:09:00 -
[1]
Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
|
Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:11:00 -
[2]
/signed.
I guess thats what happens when Goons are voted in.
|
I Love Boobies
Amarr All Hail Boobies
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:12:00 -
[3]
Total non-issue and you're going to be laughed at because you're bringing politics into the game, so don't get upset if you get trolled quite a bit, especially over a quote like this.
|
Wangston Hughes
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:14:00 -
[4]
lol
|
Clavian Voi
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:18:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Clavian Voi on 13/07/2011 03:18:28
Originally by: I Love Boobies Total non-issue and you're going to be laughed at because you're bringing politics into the game, so don't get upset if you get trolled quite a bit, especially over a quote like this.
No, actually the OP was responding to The Mittani bringing his politics into the game. In all fairness, it seems reasonable to comment on CSM members making idiotic statements supposedly on our behalf.
CSM chairman commenting on how irrelevant the players are? The irony is strong with this one.
|
mkint
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:20:00 -
[6]
Who cares about confidence in the CSM? It's CCP I have no confidence in. When (not if) CCP fails, nothing the CSM does will be able to save them.
Also, the only thing relevant about the TP (toilet paper party?) is what their existence implies about the state of America. Their philosophies and policies are just Republicans in khaki's, nothing revolutionary or even interesting. Bringing them up as an argument as to why CCP and the CSM are incompetent is an absolute failure of an argument.
|
I Love Boobies
Amarr All Hail Boobies
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:21:00 -
[7]
Edited by: I Love Boobies on 13/07/2011 03:23:34
Originally by: Clavian Voi Edited by: Clavian Voi on 13/07/2011 03:18:28
Originally by: I Love Boobies Total non-issue and you're going to be laughed at because you're bringing politics into the game, so don't get upset if you get trolled quite a bit, especially over a quote like this.
No, actually the OP was responding to The Mittani bringing his politics into the game. In all fairness, it seems reasonable to comment on CSM members making idiotic statements supposedly on our behalf.
CSM chairman commenting on how irrelevant the players are? The irony is strong with this one.
Perhaps, but he is still gonna get trolled big time for it, especially from the Euro players since the OP seems more concerned about the Tea Party reference than being called irrelevant.
|
Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: mkint Who cares about confidence in the CSM? It's CCP I have no confidence in. When (not if) CCP fails, nothing the CSM does will be able to save them.
Also, the only thing relevant about the TP (toilet paper party?) is what their existence implies about the state of America. Their philosophies and policies are just Republicans in khaki's, nothing revolutionary or even interesting. Bringing them up as an argument as to why CCP and the CSM are incompetent is an absolute failure of an argument.
Since the CSM is suppose to be a bridge between CCP and the players, what is the point of that bridge being just one way?
|
Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:30:00 -
[9]
OP,
Try reading the ENTIRE article, you fu.cking moron, he was speaking directly to you. I've cancelled my sub, and I have considered hanging out till the time runs out, but douche bags like you make it hard to give a fu.ck about the community at all.
As for the rest of it? Well, ôThe Mittaniö doesnÆt mince words:
ôOn EVE-O and other forums there are a minority of people who are whiny little babies. This is politics. The CSM is a political entity; this means that after any situation you are always going to have a minority of loud people who are saying that anything EVE accomplished is bullsh*t and that itÆs all just window dressing and herf-derf. OH AFTER THE CSM MEETING, maybe NOT AT ALL WHAT YOU SAID. You ****ing douche bag.
"I spend a lot of time on Failheap Challenge, which is a forum for primarily the most bitter of that long tail of bitter players. I donÆt really give a sh*t what they say. In fact, if you look at any of my posts in dealing with them, I actively go out of my way to antagonize them because IÆm a cruel person and I enjoy making people like that angry, and from a political perspective itÆs also good to marginalize them.
"They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'll tell you what I believe we should never sell; Anything that messes with the competitive balance of the game. No + stat ammo, no + stat ships and anything of that type. |
Sader Rykane
Amarr The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:34:00 -
[10]
Except the Tea Party is not as impotent as this guy would have you believe...
|
|
P42ALPHA
Gallente nul-li-fy Usurper.
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 03:49:00 -
[11]
LAWL, Mittani is what is best described. A royal Turd, and like any of those ppl on the CSM there internets are clearly to important to them for any company like CCP to really give a crap about.
But props to CCP for truly trolling the crap out of a few individuals. CSM = Hardest Core RP enviroment, ever given to a small group of ppl.
Any one that had any confidence in a Role Playing group to be taken serious by a company, should unlpug for a little bit.
What a joke.
|
Strecs Moliko
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Vote of No Confidence in CSM
I think I saw this movie, she has two kids and dies in the end.
|
Trig Onami
Caldari Onami Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Strecs Moliko
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Vote of No Confidence in CSM
I think I saw this movie, she has two kids and dies in the end.
LOL! EVE. The most ambitious project on earth. |
Simetraz
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous "So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
Quoting your Quote.
I see A CSM member expressing his/her PERSONAL opinion and guess what, CSM members have a right the their opinion just like you.
|
Important Person
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:19:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Important Person on 13/07/2011 04:23:08 CHANGE PLACES!
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:24:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jonathan Ferguson on 13/07/2011 04:25:38 This CSM sucks. No real surprise there. CSM is a PR stunt by CCP and should be done away with. CSM V tried to make it more than that and got put in their place.
Mittens is a drunken clown who doesn't even play the game. The rest of them are sycophants. All they do is protect CCP from the full force of customer outrage/unsubscriptions by letting CCP pretend that they listen to their customers. And act as meatshields.
The whole CSM had read Fearless weeks ahead of its public release and none of them were concerned about it. They chalk up the protests to a 'communications issue' (in other words, CCP needs to lie more convincingly.)
Anyway, complaining about them is a waste of time because they're more useless than anything else and there are bigger fish to fry. But it would be nice if the council were abolished or at least there were a formal way for the players to express the 'vote of no confidence' mentioned in the thread title.
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
Important Person
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson way for the players to express the 'vote of non confidence' mentioned in the thread title.
You could always try playing a game you enjoy instead?
|
Valei Khurelem
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:28:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 13/07/2011 04:28:03
Originally by: Important Person
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson way for the players to express the 'vote of non confidence' mentioned in the thread title.
You could always try playing a game you enjoy instead?
It's hard to when the game you enjoy is being taken apart piece by piece.
I got an Nvidia driver error just now when I tried to log in.
|
Digital Messiah
Oregami Ultd
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:33:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Digital Messiah on 13/07/2011 04:34:29 Lets see here... Hmm Community suspects CCP of P2W... CSM's hear the community cry out for them. They then go to iceland, have a chatter with CCP. And it turns out there will be no P2W, just vanity items to help boost the income of an eight year long investment. "A wise choice for any company that has invested this long. To simply wish to increase revenue so they can continue making a game about flying spaceships."
Oh but wait, the CSM's came back. And in their opinions were ok with there being a system that in no way, shape, or form, effects combat, or game play. 1. fake money "Aurum" buys re-skin/useless doodad. 2. player is excited to look cool "in their opinion". 3. other player gets upset he doesn't look cool? 4. ????? 5. The community rages harder than losing a 6 year old account with 3 titan characters. "titans included"
The moment CCP introduces a p2w product, item, or anything, I will severely change my tune about this game. But you have ranted and raved, danced under the in game statue that can be respawned with a console command, and are now redirecting your blind hatred to others.
At what point did this community of players turn into whiney children, trolls, and ignoramuses?!
I have a pun actually, seeing as it is ever so popular. I was there when EQ went down the toilet for EVE and SWG and finally WOW. I was there when SWG decided to have "New Game Enhancements". I was there when WOW decided to make you grind entire levels and armor sets just to play as you had before. And I was there when Micro Transactions became popular in video games.
EVE online is not suffering from a new game enhancement, nor are they asking you to retrain drones - space ship command level 5, nor are they so drastically changing the game that you lose everything you worked for and have no choice or freedom to level as you like. And is not like every single other dungeons and dragons rip off you see today.
So stop whining, nothing has changed, you can still fight for sov, mine, grind level 4's, invent, explore, manufacture, and research. You just can't blow up monocles.
Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 04:36:00 -
[20]
Speaking of CSM, I remember how big a deal dunderheads like Jayne and Jade (okay, mostly Jade) made out of the whole 'stakeholder' status horse****. Ooooh, they're STAKEHOLDERS now! Hurray!
My take (back in November) was a little different:
"I'm sure that CCP definitely DIDN'T come up with that name by trying to think of a word that sounds kind of significant but when translated to icelandic means 'one who can be ignored.' Good heavens, no!"
The ONE singular accomplishment of CSM V was preventing CCP from going forward with non-vanity MT (other than PLEX.) Turns out CCP didn't even want them to have that one accomplishment and were conspiring to introduce exactly what they'd promised not to.
Put the CSM out of its misery already.
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
|
Adrian Idaho
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
Waaaahhhhh, somebody call the waaahhmbulance! Show us on the doll where the evil Mittens hurt your little American feelings.
|
Cyprus Black
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:19:00 -
[22]
Yeah, in regards to the No Confidence in CSMs, that ship has sailed long ago. I'm surprised it took you this long to come to that realization. _____________________________________
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cyprus Black Yeah, in regards to the No Confidence in CSMs, that ship has sailed long ago. I'm surprised it took you this long to come to that realization.
I dunno. Until now it didn't seem like they were a net negative. (CSM V worked their asses off for the good of the game.) Now they clearly are (albeit a regularly insignificant one.)
They act as CCP damage control/meatshields. They get no tangible results (CCP's statement about microtransactions had been written BEFORE the summit even happened and wasn't changed.) They argue for changes that will benefit their alliances over the good of the game. Time to throw the bums out.
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
Nikayte Askiras
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:37:00 -
[24]
wow...i offer a big fuk u to the CSM douche that said that.
|
Yoa Loother
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:48:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Yoa Loother on 13/07/2011 05:48:54 You guys are aware that threads like these only feed the Mittani¦s ego even more?
I don¦t want to find out what happens when it grows so big that the event horizon breaches his skull, so stop feeding the troll and just enjoy the show:
An Italian in Iceland. _ .. darn |
Mina Sulva'r
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 05:51:00 -
[26]
If this body is not capable of action, I suggest new leadership is needed. I move for a Vote of No Confidence in Chancellor Valorum's leadership, or whatever that guys name was that kept talking over CCP Zulu in this video.
|
Eyup Mi'duck
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
4/4ths of the non-American player base hasn't got a clue what you are on about?
Get over it! Learn from your mistake and move on. |
Maddi5on
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:07:00 -
[28]
Incarna: how to obtain your free mono... |
Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:12:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 13/07/2011 07:17:25
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson Speaking of CSM, I remember how big a deal dunderheads like Jayne and Jade (okay, mostly Jade) made out of the whole 'stakeholder' status horse****. Ooooh, they're STAKEHOLDERS now! Hurray!
My take (back in November) was a little different:
"I'm sure that CCP definitely DIDN'T come up with that name by trying to think of a word that sounds kind of significant but when translated to icelandic means 'one who can be ignored.' Good heavens, no!"
The ONE singular accomplishment of CSM V was preventing CCP from going forward with non-vanity MT (other than PLEX.) Turns out CCP didn't even want them to have that one accomplishment and were conspiring to introduce exactly what they'd promised not to.
Put the CSM out of its misery already.
Instead you have people like The Mittani (or you) who have simply no idea how the term "stakeholder" is used in business management and go on a posting spree to "educate" the gullible masses with false information.
Employees are stakeholders, investors are stakeholders, banks are stakeholders, customers are stakeholders, suppliers are stakeholders, the government is a stakeholder, ...
Stakeholders are "those groups without whose support the organization would cease to exist".
CCP's announcement was that the CSM had now the position of a "stakeholder" in its SCRUM process. In a business sense the customers (and as their representative the CSM) have been stakeholders forever.
|
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:58:00 -
[30]
The CSM is nothing more then a PR tool, to make it seems like CCP wants to involve the eve community in the design and development of eve. They are bought and payed for by CCP, sadly it does not takes more then a few trips to Iceland and some drinks with the devs, to make the CSM members drop their pants and bend over.
The stakeholder roll basically only means that when CCP agrees with an CSM idea that can be added to the backlog, which again means that CCP if and when they fell like can implement the idea. In the end CCP can both now and later turn down any suggestion made bu the CSM.
CCP also fully control the information given to the CSM, and regulates what information the CSM can pass on to the community. Time and time again we have seen that the CSM says that they are not being given the information need to fulfill their roll, and even worse they don't complain about it, as long as they get their free trips to Iceland.
The CSM was ment to be a way for the players to influence the design and development of eve, but it ended up being a tool CCP would use to influence the eve player base.
|
|
Khamelean
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 08:56:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Khamelean on 13/07/2011 09:03:55 ooh ooh, shall we play "Antagonise the fringe lunatics" or "Marginalise the whiny babies"?
So many ways to play. That's why I love eve :)
EDIT: To the OP, which are you? fringe lunatic or whiny baby? Only way you could possibly be offended is if you fit in to one of those categories and feel marginalised/antagonised by mittins' statement.
|
P42ALPHA
Gallente nul-li-fy Usurper.
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:01:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Strecs Moliko
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Vote of No Confidence in CSM
I think I saw this movie, she has two kids and dies in the end.
Best reply to any topic EVER!!!
|
Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:11:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Eyup Mi'duck
4/4ths of the non-American player base hasn't got a clue what you are on about?
Not true - I can for example tell you that the Tea Party are a bunch of looney toon soccer mums who'd rather believe 'facts' they make up themselves to fit their own ideals rather than what could be reasonably proven.
But whether there anything more to them than that I dunno. Besides EVE is not the best place to talk politics, even of the bat**** nuts kind.
|
Real Poison
Minmatar Stormlord Battleforce Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:25:00 -
[34]
oh the whiners. srsly send me all your stuff on the way out.
if you really want cheap monocles so badly go for second life.
i'd rather shrug at designer g-string thongs for 10 plex worth of aurum. if that helps to pay for devs to get 0.0 fixes sooner.
and all that while having a free laugh and pointing fingers at ppl buying the meaningless vanity stuff.
YOU ARE PATHETIC AND CHILDISH. NOW FLAME ON!
|
Ramma Lamma DingDong
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:42:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Ramma Lamma DingDong on 13/07/2011 09:42:28 Educated, intelligent Americans (granted it may seem as if there are few of them) don't take the teabaggers seriously at all.
I mean come on, it's a party that supports people such as Michelle Bachman, a candidate who doesn't know the difference between John Wayne and John Gacy and who along with her husband runs a clinic that "converts" homosexuals.
She warned us all that The Lion King was "g a y" propoganda. She claimed abolishing the minimum wage would create jobs. She called Carbon Dioxide, "harmless." She suggested that Melissa Ethridge, a well known lesbian artist "repent" after getting cancer.
Sadly, there is a portion of American society that buys a ticket to ride this crazy train but the majority are just watching and waiting for the inevitable crash. The Republicans bought a ticket early on and are currently trying to get off at the next stop after realizing the depth of the crazy (and believe me, it is deep.)
|
Cebraio
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Captain's CourageousOver 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party,
[citation needed]
Also, post with your main.
|
Spookyjay
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:53:00 -
[37]
I think the csm is probably as out of touch and deluded as some of the ccp staff who feel $1000+ are needed as a micro transaction in a spaceship game
|
Kaethe Kollwitz
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:44:00 -
[38]
The csm represents 14 out of every 100 eve players as that is the percentage that voted.
no more, no less.
I didnt vote because as far as I can tell, like all politicians everywhere the CSM primarily serves first itself, then CCP and lastly the players.
so in short it doesnt matter if you have no confidence in them - what are you going to do? replace them with another group of people that 86 out of every 100 eve players dont care about, who will be just the same as the current CSM?
let them get on with it, in the end you either like EvE and pay or you dont and you dont!
|
Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz The csm represents 14 out of every 100 eve players as that is the percentage that voted.
no more, no less.
I didnt vote because as far as I can tell, like all politicians everywhere the CSM primarily serves first itself, then CCP and lastly the players.
so in short it doesnt matter if you have no confidence in them - what are you going to do? replace them with another group of people that 86 out of every 100 eve players dont care about, who will be just the same as the current CSM?
let them get on with it, in the end you either like EvE and pay or you dont and you dont!
Sounds like we need an electoral reform candidate for the next CSM election. I wonder if the character name Nick Clegg is taken...
|
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:47:00 -
[40]
should have voted serious IP :P
Microtransactions? Click here and vote Yes, No or Cosmetic only
|
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:00:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Akita T on 13/07/2011 11:03:01
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. [...] I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
The protesters should feel lucky if they're even remotely as relevant as the Tea Party.
Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz The csm represents 14 out of every 100 eve players as that is the percentage that voted.
The CSM represents enough of the people who actually bothered to make a few clicks to vote. No vote, no relevance. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
|
Nigri Oramara
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: dexington The CSM was ment to be a way for the players to influence the design and development of eve, but it ended up being a tool CCP would use to influence the eve player base.
+1
|
ChromeStriker
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:33:00 -
[43]
Edited by: ChromeStriker on 13/07/2011 11:33:21
Seriously think about what your saying! what do u want to do replace the CSM members? theyre prob the most organised, comunative group weve had, not trying to belittle any past CSM's. Or do you want to get rid of the CSM completely? where would that leave us? this thread fails.
4 more years and long live the CSM n all that. - Nulla Curas |
Ajunyx
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:46:00 -
[44]
Lmao.
This communities entitlement complexes have gone off the charts since you all whined and stomped your feet about the Monacles and 'Protested in Jita' a bloobloobloo.
The more people make threads like this the more I want CCP to put things like pay2win in the game so you will actually leave and stop pretending you're going too.
Thread is dumb, OP is dumb.
|
Mr Kidd
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 11:59:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 13/07/2011 12:00:44 Isolated movements:
Christ Mohammed Buddha Napoleon Gandhi ****** - seriously hit ler is filtered? American Revolution Tankman Arab spring
Just a few isolated fringe movements off the top of my head. Skewed Christian and American. Please feel free to add your own.
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:06:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz The csm represents 14 out of every 100 eve players as that is the percentage that voted.
The CSM represents enough of the people who actually bothered to make a few clicks to vote. No vote, no relevance.
So you can't have an opinion on pedophilia if you're not a pedophile? Come on, you're normally better than this.
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz The csm represents 14 out of every 100 eve players as that is the percentage that voted.
The CSM represents enough of the people who actually bothered to make a few clicks to vote. No vote, no relevance.
So you can't have an opinion on pedophilia if you're not a pedophile? Come on, you're normally better than this.
Nice straw-man argument wherein you compare the CSM to pedophiles.
You stay classy, Cashcow Golden Goose. _______________________________________
|
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:21:00 -
[48]
Originally by: White Tree
Nice straw-man argument wherein you compare the CSM to pedophiles.
You stay classy, Cashcow Golden Goose.
in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king...
He didn't compare the CSM to pedophiles, he just pointed out that you didn't need to vote or be in the CSM to voice you opinion, and proved it using an example of a social group which few belong to but most have an opinion about.
|
TehMaster
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:28:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
The CSM along with you has a right to their opinions. While I disagree with insulting the players who left I do not see how it constitutes a vote of no confidence. It shows you take something CCP has done for you for granted, they didnt have to create the CSM you know. Just shows you identify perfectly with the insane Tea Party. Those Americans are completely clueless as to how Government functions. Please, Leave the Jesus Freaks and Bachmann Bots out of Eve.
|
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:38:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
What a silly quote, on serval levels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
|
Aodha Khan
Minmatar Deviance Cartel Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:40:00 -
[51]
Originally by: White Tree
Nice straw-man argument wherein you compare the CSM to pedophiles.
Well, he didn't compare CSM with pedos. And secondly, how about you as CSM make a comment on the actual subject matter since your obviously reading it.
Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken. |
Miss Rabblt
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:52:00 -
[52]
one more whiny thread.... where will you stop after all?
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 12:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Akita T
The CSM represents enough of the people who actually bothered to make a few clicks to vote. No vote, no relevance.
So you can't have an opinion on pedophilia if you're not a pedophile? Come on, you're normally better than this.
Nice straw-man argument wherein you compare the CSM to pedophiles.
You stay classy, Cashcow Golden Goose.
The **** is wrong with your guilty conscience?
|
1Of9
Gallente The Circle SOLAR WING
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Headerman /signed.
I guess thats what happens when Goons are voted in.
+1
so mutch this --------^
goons in csm and in ccp ... what do u people expect? progress? lolol
|
White Tree
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:02:00 -
[55]
I think some of you don't know what a straw-man argument is... _______________________________________
|
Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:03:00 -
[56]
Should've voted Roc.
|
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:08:00 -
[57]
Edited by: dexington on 13/07/2011 13:13:12
Originally by: White Tree I think some of you don't know what a straw-man argument is...
are you trying to say that stated premise fail to support the proposed conclusion?, or are you the one who don't know what a straw-man argument is...
|
Valari Nala Zena
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Headerman
Originally by: mkint Who cares about confidence in the CSM? It's CCP I have no confidence in. When (not if) CCP fails, nothing the CSM does will be able to save them.
Also, the only thing relevant about the TP (toilet paper party?) is what their existence implies about the state of America. Their philosophies and policies are just Republicans in khaki's, nothing revolutionary or even interesting. Bringing them up as an argument as to why CCP and the CSM are incompetent is an absolute failure of an argument.
Since the CSM is suppose to be a bridge between CCP and the players, what is the point of that bridge being just one way?
lol i lost my confidence in the CSM ever since Darius III found it funny to use his position to scam people for votes.
Just stop voting on the CSM next time, the amount of votes they have are a joke anyways.
|
Zelda Wei
Caldari New Horizon Trade Exchange
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:20:00 -
[59]
All the hallmarks of illusory superiority and continuous failure to recognise the extend of their incompetence.
The current CSM is a text book definition of the Dunning Kruger effect.
|
Signal11th
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:22:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Signal11th on 13/07/2011 13:22:58
|
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:28:00 -
[61]
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 13/07/2011 13:13:12
Originally by: White Tree I think some of you don't know what a straw-man argument is...
are you trying to say that stated premise fail to support the proposed conclusion?, or are you the one who don't know what a straw-man argument is...
He's desperately trying to make himself right by trying to sound clever. He could just say, "Sorry, I decided not to read that but react to words that were not written", but nope, he's telling us that we're the stupid ones for not being smart enough to recognise the true genius behind what he said.
|
jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:38:00 -
[62]
If you quit your day job so you can play eve full time Eve becomes your life. Such a person could never represent players who are growing tired of the game's direction and thinking about leaving it. People who do not have lives outside of internet spaceships will never really represent most players.
I don't know or care about all the members, becasue for whatever reason decided to all fall behind brave leader.
I didn't even see any complaints when only mittani was allowed to speak at the press conference on behalf of the csm. Most of the players who voted did not vote for mittani. And its quite likely that most of the players who voted did not want mittani on the csm.
Why is Mittani speaking for the entire csm? The answer is easy. He sufficiently convinced ccp that he would be a loyal puppet. And he certainly has been. The only thing I can think is he is tired of being unemployed and wants a job at ccp. But that of course is just speculation.
The csm 5 was different, and that is why they actually stood up to ccp on several issues instead of playing pr puppet for ccp. They had lives outside of eve so they could take it or leave it. It seems many did leave it because - like many players posting on these forums - they see the game heading in a direction they don't like.
|
Ajunyx
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:44:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 13/07/2011 13:13:12
Originally by: White Tree I think some of you don't know what a straw-man argument is...
are you trying to say that stated premise fail to support the proposed conclusion?, or are you the one who don't know what a straw-man argument is...
He's desperately trying to make himself right by trying to sound clever. He could just say, "Sorry, I decided not to read that but react to words that were not written", but nope, he's telling us that we're the stupid ones for not being smart enough to recognise the true genius behind what he said.
I know White Tree and I can say he probably is smarter than you.
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:46:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ajunyx
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 13/07/2011 13:13:12
Originally by: White Tree I think some of you don't know what a straw-man argument is...
are you trying to say that stated premise fail to support the proposed conclusion?, or are you the one who don't know what a straw-man argument is...
He's desperately trying to make himself right by trying to sound clever. He could just say, "Sorry, I decided not to read that but react to words that were not written", but nope, he's telling us that we're the stupid ones for not being smart enough to recognise the true genius behind what he said.
I know White Tree and I can say he probably is smarter than you.
I can see where he went wrong, that you cannot invalidates your appeal to authority.
|
Sasio Shihari
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:47:00 -
[65]
The Teabaggers haven't really accomplished much other than protesting against tax cuts (which they asked for) and making the republicans look even more like a bunch of irrational rednecks..
Conversely, the Jita protesters did manage to make CCP hold an emergency CSM meeting, which is comparatively a greater result. So don't feel bad, monocle-rioters, you did have an effect.
I'm thinking Mittens was talking more about those people who, deep in their hearts, want CCP and Eve to go down in flames so they can say "I told you so."
|
Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:48:00 -
[66]
Originally by: jackaloped If you quit your day job so you can play eve full time Eve becomes your life. Such a person could never represent players who are growing tired of the game's direction and thinking about leaving it. People who do not have lives outside of internet spaceships will never really represent most players.
I don't know or care about all the members, becasue for whatever reason decided to all fall behind brave leader.
I didn't even see any complaints when only mittani was allowed to speak at the press conference on behalf of the csm. Most of the players who voted did not vote for mittani. And its quite likely that most of the players who voted did not want mittani on the csm.
Why is Mittani speaking for the entire csm? The answer is easy. He sufficiently convinced ccp that he would be a loyal puppet. And he certainly has been. The only thing I can think is he is tired of being unemployed and wants a job at ccp. But that of course is just speculation.
The csm 5 was different, and that is why they actually stood up to ccp on several issues instead of playing pr puppet for ccp. They had lives outside of eve so they could take it or leave it. It seems many did leave it because - like many players posting on these forums - they see the game heading in a direction they don't like.
Now I dont know enough about the powleetix to just write QFT but it definately rings true to me.
The CSM went to Iceland to get a clear reply from CCP and instead they came up with a statement of their own saying (rough translation quote it if you can): What we have seen reassures us that it was all a communication error and future pricing plans are all good.
Then we hear there will be cheaper and more expensive items etc etc and no actual game development (the spaceships game not barbie online) is expected for a good couple of years...
My reaction to the announcements was: does even the CSM have any idea what the problem is here? In my eyes announcements from the CSM and CCP alike were simply oriented to quiet the unrest and sto people unsubing (I like that too if they all leave it will be single player) but calming them with smoke and mirrors and not with addressing the real issues...
"Relax there will be cheaper boots, so all is well and this was all mostly a misunderstanding" is such a completely ridiculous proposition that I am amazed the CSM and CCP had the nerve to utter it in unison...
My 2 isk anyway...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Ripley Nostromo
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:48:00 -
[67]
Originally by: jackaloped - like many players posting on these forums - they see the game heading in a direction they don't like.
I can hardly wait to buy SP. It's coming, you'll see...
It's only a matter of time.... You'll see...
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:52:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Cashcow Golden Goose on 13/07/2011 13:52:12
Originally by: Ripley Nostromo
Originally by: jackaloped - like many players posting on these forums - they see the game heading in a direction they don't like.
I can hardly wait to buy SP. It's coming, you'll see...
It's only a matter of time.... You'll see...
Indeed. When CCP alter the rate at which they sell SP, or give me additional options for purchasing SP, I will take them up on the offer. When I see an explosion in this game, I am already reasonably convinced that the explosion is between 3 and 8% reliant on somebody somewhere using a macro, somebody somewhere account sharing along with many other violations and corruptions of the rules of the game. If the person who was flying the explosion before it was an explosion just so happened to have bought that character for real dollars either on Ebay or Char Bazaar or NeX Store Skill Point EXchAnge won't matter one driplet to me.
|
Mintala Arana
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 13:58:00 -
[69]
The CSM is correct. Fringe groups, unless they can develop grassroots support in numbers sufficient to start making changes, are irrelevant.
Welcome to realpolitik.
|
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:15:00 -
[70]
Originally by: jackaloped If you quit your day job so you can play eve full time Eve becomes your life. Such a person could never represent players who are growing tired of the game's direction and thinking about leaving it. People who do not have lives outside of internet spaceships will never really represent most players.
The CSM only represent the players who by chance share their or their alliances views, they don't in anyway represent the eve player base in general. Anyone who don't share the views of the big alliances have little to no chance of voicing their opinion through the CSM.
The views of the CMS members are to homogenous to represent the player base, it's basically a one party democracy.
|
|
Khamelean
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:21:00 -
[71]
Yes, only a small portion of the total eve population voted in the CSM elections. But the rest still voiced there opinion, which was "I don't care enough to vote". Thus giving up their chance to voice their opinions later. Them's the breaks.
|
jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:21:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Mintala Arana The CSM is correct. Fringe groups, unless they can develop grassroots support in numbers sufficient to start making changes, are irrelevant.
Welcome to realpolitik.
But who is the fringe group? Are there more players who have quit their day job to make eve their life and lead a large null sec alliance, or are there more players who can take or leave eve, and the way things are going will likely leave?
In the minutes it was reported that a large portion of the players have been playing for under 1 year or so. (something like that I don't have time to find the exact quote sorry) Yet the total number of subscriptions has been holding steady over the last 2 years. (instead of growing like it had for the years before) That should tell you that a large portion of the players are not sticking around with eve.
But whatever, it is up to ccp to decide if the views of those who are leaving the game are relevant.
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:35:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Khamelean Yes, only a small portion of the total eve population voted in the CSM elections. But the rest still voiced there opinion, which was "I don't care enough to vote". Thus giving up their chance to voice their opinions later. Them's the breaks.
Zinfandel, why are non voters allowed to post on the forums? Could it be because you are wrong?
|
baltec1
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 14:40:00 -
[74]
Originally by: jackaloped
But who is the fringe group? Are there more players who have quit their day job to make eve their life and lead a large null sec alliance, or are there more players who can take or leave eve, and the way things are going will likely leave?
In the minutes it was reported that a large portion of the players have been playing for under 1 year or so. (something like that I don't have time to find the exact quote sorry) Yet the total number of subscriptions has been holding steady over the last 2 years. (instead of growing like it had for the years before) That should tell you that a large portion of the players are not sticking around with eve.
But whatever, it is up to ccp to decide if the views of those who are leaving the game are relevant.
I would say the current tinfoil hat whiners are the fringe party. Also EVE has been growing over the last 2 years...
|
Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:06:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Sasio Shihari I'm thinking Mittens was talking more about those people who, deep in their hearts, want CCP and Eve to go down in flames so they can say "I told you so."
Eve going down in flames would put a fair amount of people out of their misery. So would Hilmar apologising and guaranteeing that non-vanity MTs will never be introduced.
Since Eve going down in flames is more likely of those two that's their best shot at relief.
|
jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:09:00 -
[76]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: jackaloped
But who is the fringe group? Are there more players who have quit their day job to make eve their life and lead a large null sec alliance, or are there more players who can take or leave eve, and the way things are going will likely leave?
In the minutes it was reported that a large portion of the players have been playing for under 1 year or so. (something like that I don't have time to find the exact quote sorry) Yet the total number of subscriptions has been holding steady over the last 2 years. (instead of growing like it had for the years before) That should tell you that a large portion of the players are not sticking around with eve.
But whatever, it is up to ccp to decide if the views of those who are leaving the game are relevant.
I would say the current tinfoil hat whiners are the fringe party. Also EVE has been growing over the last 2 years...
Originally by: csm minutes
CCP added that newer players, less than one year old, are a very large portion of the playerbase...
Well a very large portion of the player base is less than one year old. In the past year has there been overall "very large growth" in the total number of subscriptions? If the number of total subscriptions are about even then a very large number of subscribers are quitting. Its simple math really.
Do you have some credible information on the amount of growth? The last graph I saw did not look great for eve.
|
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:12:00 -
[77]
There are members of the CSM dumb enough to think ABC ores need to be removed from wormholes (either that or they're protecting their bot operations).
Based on that alone, I have no confidence in the majority of the CSM.
There is no monocle. |
Signal11th
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:24:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ajunyx
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 13/07/2011 13:13:12
Originally by: White Tree I think some of you don't know what a straw-man argument is...
are you trying to say that stated premise fail to support the proposed conclusion?, or are you the one who don't know what a straw-man argument is...
He's desperately trying to make himself right by trying to sound clever. He could just say, "Sorry, I decided not to read that but react to words that were not written", but nope, he's telling us that we're the stupid ones for not being smart enough to recognise the true genius behind what he said.
I know White Tree and I can say he probably is smarter than you.
Crikey, that's quite an assumption on your part.
|
baltec1
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:28:00 -
[79]
Originally by: jackaloped
Well a very large portion of the player base is less than one year old. In the past year has there been overall "very large growth" in the total number of subscriptions? If the number of total subscriptions are about even then a very large number of subscribers are quitting. Its simple math really.
Do you have some credible information on the amount of growth? The last graph I saw did not look great for eve.
Well not so long ago players were quitting at six months so if anything it shows players are staying for longer. EVE has always had a large new player loss rate.
Anyway the numbers can be found in the QEN in evelopia. They show a high in mid 2010 followed by a dip over the summer months followed by a rise in early 2011. Its not much of a rise but there are more space monkies.
|
Xavier Liche
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:29:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
The Tea Party is just a bunch of closet bigots who will make up any bull**** to spread their hate. The started right off with their whole fanatical rant about how Obama was over spending when in fact it was Bush's two pointless wars that cost us so much money. But no, they blame Pbama Care which doesn't even take affect for another year but somehow a law that is not in effect costs more that 2 pointless wars.
lol @ haters
|
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:39:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Xavier Liche
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
The Tea Party is just a bunch of closet bigots who will make up any bull**** to spread their hate. The started right off with their whole fanatical rant about how Obama was over spending when in fact it was Bush's two pointless wars that cost us so much money. But no, they blame Pbama Care which doesn't even take affect for another year but somehow a law that is not in effect costs more that 2 pointless wars.
lol @ haters
I can't say too much for obvious reasons. 1,2 and 3. Pose as a tea bagger. Use some loaded phrases "BLACK man in the WHITE house" I have found to be very effective at getting Director roles.
4. Profit.
|
Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations Eternal Evocations
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 15:52:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 13/07/2011 15:53:22
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson They argue for changes that will benefit their alliances over the good of the game. Time to throw the bums out.
The CSM are elected to speak for various facets of the subscriber base at large, such as null security, empire, industry, PvP, etc.
So are you saying that a 0.0 dweller who is elected to speak on behalf of null security dweller interests, who argues his or her case whether it benefits Empire dwellers or not, is somehow wrong?
I must have a vastly incorrect understanding of what an elected representative is supposed to do, Oh wait, I understand perfectly.
Did you think CCP just had elections for a handful of random popular subscribers in the game, got them all in a room, and demanded "MAKE GAME BETTER! ... GO!" ?
It is not quite like that, friend.
|
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:00:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Roc Wieler Should've voted Roc.
true that brother! :P
Microtransactions? Click here and vote Yes, No or Cosmetic only
|
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:10:00 -
[84]
Edited by: dexington on 13/07/2011 16:23:31
Originally by: Maduin Ardens Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 13/07/2011 15:53:22
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson They argue for changes that will benefit their alliances over the good of the game. Time to throw the bums out.
The CSM are elected to speak for various facets of the subscriber base at large, such as null security, empire, industry, PvP, etc.
So are you saying that a 0.0 dweller who is elected to speak on behalf of null security dweller interests, who argues his or her case whether it benefits Empire dwellers or not, is somehow wrong?
I must have a vastly incorrect understanding of what an elected representative is supposed to do, Oh wait, I understand perfectly.
Did you think CCP just had elections for a handful of random popular subscribers in the game, got them all in a room, and demanded "MAKE GAME BETTER! ... GO!" ?
It is not quite like that, friend.
The problem is that more or less everyone in the CSM wants to improve null sec, the CSM is not covering the various facets of the subscriber base, only the part that lives in 0.0.
The Mittani was whining about the CSM when they didn't mainly focus on 0.0, and now that that goal is reached, everyone who has complains about anything else in the game belong to the minority of raving lunatics.
|
Jita Jenn
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:24:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP.
I stopped reading there. You're obviously an idiot.
|
Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations Eternal Evocations
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:25:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 13/07/2011 16:26:08
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 13/07/2011 16:23:31
Originally by: Maduin Ardens Edited by: Maduin Ardens on 13/07/2011 15:53:22
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson They argue for changes that will benefit their alliances over the good of the game. Time to throw the bums out.
The CSM are elected to speak for various facets of the subscriber base at large, such as null security, empire, industry, PvP, etc.
So are you saying that a 0.0 dweller who is elected to speak on behalf of null security dweller interests, who argues his or her case whether it benefits Empire dwellers or not, is somehow wrong?
I must have a vastly incorrect understanding of what an elected representative is supposed to do, Oh wait, I understand perfectly.
Did you think CCP just had elections for a handful of random popular subscribers in the game, got them all in a room, and demanded "MAKE GAME BETTER! ... GO!" ?
It is not quite like that, friend.
The problem is that more or less everyone in the CSM wants to improve null sec, the CSM is not covering the various facets of the subscriber base, only the part that lives in 0.0.
The Mittani was whining about the CSM when they didn't mainly focus on 0.0, and now that that goal is reached, everyone who has complains about anything else in the game belong to the minority of raving lunatics.
Ahhhh interesting, I stand corrected then... there should be better representation then for sure, however... a few things need to be left alone for good, like making Empire even more easy and giving people less reasons than ever to leave it.
But interesting, thanks for the information!
|
Jita Jenn
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:30:00 -
[87]
Originally by: dexington
The problem is that more or less everyone in the CSM wants to improve null sec, the CSM is not covering the various facets of the subscriber base, only the part that lives in 0.0.
The Mittani was whining about the CSM when they didn't mainly focus on 0.0, and now that that goal is reached, everyone who has complains about anything else in the game belong to the minority of raving lunatics.
CCP devs prioritize highsec because that's where the majority of players live. The CSM highlights problems in nullsec that CCP are not aware of because nullsec has never been a priority.
|
DogTyred
Cool4Cats
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:35:00 -
[88]
If we're having a Tea Party can I have cucumber sandwiches please
|
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:42:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jita Jenn CCP devs prioritize highsec because that's where the majority of players live. The CSM highlights problems in nullsec that CCP are not aware of because nullsec has never been a priority.
If what you say is true then the CSM represent the minority of 0.0 players, and should not be seen as the voice of the community. I don't care all that much if the CSM focus on high or low sec, i'm just sick and tired of them claiming to be "the voice" of the community, when they only work for their own and their alliances interest.
The community clearly voiced more opinions against micro transactions then for, still the CSM chairman publicly says that the only part of the community that don't like micro transactions are loud lunatics.
|
Callic Veratar
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:46:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Zelda Wei
All the hallmarks of illusory superiority and continuous failure to recognise the extend of their incompetence.
The current CSM is a text book definition of the Dunning Kruger effect.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have not served on the CSM and do not have a lot of information about how it works as there are a lot of NDAs signed. If you are going to invoke Dunning Kruger, I would request that you acknowledge that you may be operating under it's cognitive bias as well.
|
|
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:51:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Eyup Mi'duck
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
4/4ths of the non-American player base hasn't got a clue what you are on about?
Neither do 2/4's of the American player-base. And the rest of us just don't care. Let's face it, American politics is no longer about who can do the best job. It's about who will do the least damage.
Hmm. I wonder if Apathetic Cynacism can be considered a political position. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
|
Phugoid
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 16:52:00 -
[92]
Hey Captain's Courageous....
About a week or so I had a similar thread, and you should have seen all the left wing whackos comeout and spill their hatred. All I did was complain bout CSM Mattini's (or whatever his name is) exact statement, and how politics should NOT be brought up in regards to the recent events.
But, guess what? My thread was locked by CCP after about 40 posts or so because of the whackos making my point into a politcal point, which it was not.
Good Luck...dont be surprised if your post get blocked, and it will be responded by a bunch of haters out there. (Romney 2012)
|
1Of9
Gallente The Circle SOLAR WING
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:01:00 -
[93]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: jackaloped If you quit your day job so you can play eve full time Eve becomes your life. Such a person could never represent players who are growing tired of the game's direction and thinking about leaving it. People who do not have lives outside of internet spaceships will never really represent most players.
The CSM only represent the players who by chance share their or their alliances views, they don't in anyway represent the eve player base in general. Anyone who don't share the views of the big alliances have little to no chance of voicing their opinion through the CSM.
The views of the CMS members are to homogenous to represent the player base, it's basically a one party democracy.
true. it's the only reason goons get into the csm anyway. no one else votes on those ***gots
|
Mintala Arana
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:03:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Khamelean Yes, only a small portion of the total eve population voted in the CSM elections. But the rest still voiced there opinion, which was "I don't care enough to vote". Thus giving up their chance to voice their opinions later. Them's the breaks.
Zinfandel, why are non voters allowed to post on the forums? Could it be because you are wrong?
Even if that is indeed a CCP Zinfandel alt (which I kind of doubt), the basic statement is reasonable to me. You're given an opportunity to vote. If you don't vote, that is the same as saying "I don't care about the issues". If you say "I don't care about the issues" then you have no basis for complaint about your elected representatives if the outcome on some (or all) issues isn't to your liking.
And if you do care, perhaps next time you should vote.
|
1Of9
Gallente The Circle SOLAR WING
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:04:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Phugoid Hey Captain's Courageous....
About a week or so I had a similar thread, and you should have seen all the left wing whackos comeout and spill their hatred. All I did was complain bout CSM Mattini's (or whatever his name is) exact statement, and how politics should NOT be brought up in regards to the recent events.
But, guess what? My thread was locked by CCP after about 40 posts or so because of the whackos making my point into a politcal point, which it was not.
Good Luck...dont be surprised if your post get blocked, and it will be responded by a bunch of haters out there. (Romney 2012)
it's not ccp blocking, it's goons working inside ccp.
if topic does not favor gooncrap then lock/delete
|
Ineka
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:12:00 -
[96]
If you want to vote no confidence to the actual CSM you'll be able to, at the next elections party. This is how it works.
People have voted, they are doing their job and you don't have to love it/them or hate it/them with lol threads like this one.
Get close to their opponents and start right now working on your strategics and campaign to elect your favourite "fellah's" next year.
Short version: stop wasting your time and pollute the forum with useless blah blah blah
You can also grow up but it's not mandatory.
|
Daedalus II
Helios Research
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:15:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Daedalus II on 13/07/2011 17:18:13
Originally by: dexington
The community clearly voiced more opinions against micro transactions then for, still the CSM chairman publicly says that the only part of the community that don't like micro transactions are loud lunatics.
Well if you call 5000 loud lunatics "the community" then yes, you're right. I however rather see the remaining 400 000 as the community.
Anyway in relation to the original post, I guess there could be a vulnerability in the current system:
Let's speculate that most of the high sec people vote on a single person. Then say that the nullsec alliances all vote for their respective candidates.
Result; the high sec representative easily gets in with five times as much votes as anyone else. The nullsec representatives get in as well, but with fewer votes. However the high sec representative doesn't have five times as much power. And all of a sudden there's a lot more nullsec representatives than high sec representatives on the CSM despite the high sec population being a lot larger in reality. The same could happen if the high sec people for example voted evenly amongst a lot of high-sec candidates, in such a way that none reached the required level to be elected compared to the nullsec voters more concentrated votes.
Is this likely to happen? I don't know, maybe? Does it really matter anyway? I don't know, maybe?
If this was a problem however a "party system" could be added to solve the problem. One high sec party, one low sec party, one nullsec party and one independent party. Each party gets CSM chairs relative to total votes for all party members. And from inside the party representatives are chosen in descending order based on how many votes they individually got. Sounds fair, no?
___________ Interested in incursions? Join Helios Research! |
Cydori
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:15:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Cydori on 13/07/2011 17:17:47 Whatever faith I had in the CSM evaporated like a fart in the wind after observing its performance during this latest incident. I used to have a modicum of respect for The Mittani, even though I've disagreed with him on various issues in the past. But his obnoxious personality and self-important grandstanding makes it increasingly difficult to support anything he does, regardless of the relative merits of his arguments. And his arguments have been getting worse and worse over time. The best thing to do with people like that is ignore them, as that's the one thing they can't abide.
As for the rest of the CSM members, they've repeatedly demonstrated they're more interested in acting as a PR meatshield for CCP than aggressively pushing issues which are important to the players. Their motto seems to be "No we can't!" The worst part is that some of them have actually convinced themselves they're anything more than sycophants.
The CSM is a fascinating concept marred by horrid implementation. Not unlike many political entities in the real world. Sad, really.
|
jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:40:00 -
[99]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: jackaloped
Well a very large portion of the player base is less than one year old. In the past year has there been overall "very large growth" in the total number of subscriptions? If the number of total subscriptions are about even then a very large number of subscribers are quitting. Its simple math really.
Do you have some credible information on the amount of growth? The last graph I saw did not look great for eve.
Well not so long ago players were quitting at six months so if anything it shows players are staying for longer. EVE has always had a large new player loss rate.
Actually nothing in this thread indicates players are staying longer. CCP said a very large portion of eve players have been playing under 1 year. It did not say this large proportion has been playing over 6 months. This very large portion could be anywhere from 1 day to 365 days in the game. Take off the rose colored glasses and try to look at the numbers objectively.
Originally by: baltec1
Anyway the numbers can be found in the QEN in evelopia. They show a high in mid 2010 followed by a dip over the summer months followed by a rise in early 2011. Its not much of a rise but there are more space monkies.
The numbers show that since December of 2009 the subscriptions have been fluctuating more than ever, with an average of about 330-350k. The graph shows that there has never in the history of the game been such a lack of growth in overall numbers for a 18 month period of time.
Yet CCP says new players (under 1 year) make up a very large portion of the players. The only way that can be the case in light of the qen reports, is if an equally very large portion of players have been leaving since December of 2009.
|
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 17:43:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Daedalus II Edited by: Daedalus II on 13/07/2011 17:18:13
Originally by: dexington
The community clearly voiced more opinions against micro transactions then for, still the CSM chairman publicly says that the only part of the community that don't like micro transactions are loud lunatics.
Well if you call 5000 loud lunatics "the community" then yes, you're right. I however rather see the remaining 400 000 as the community.
I didn't see 400000 players saying they support microtransaction, i didn't see anyone protest in support for micro transactions. The CSM would like to say that the silent majority supported CCP/NEX/microtransactions, which is nothing more then bending the truth to serve their own purpose.
|
|
Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 18:07:00 -
[101]
I heard that posting on an alt with the incorrect use of apostrophe makes the OP extremely courageous, c/d?
Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 18:11:00 -
[102]
Can I just make a vote of general resigned apathy for all things CCP?
Wherever you went - Here you are.
|
Captain's Courageous
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 21:52:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Phugoid Hey Captain's Courageous....
About a week or so I had a similar thread, and you should have seen all the left wing whackos comeout and spill their hatred. All I did was complain bout CSM Mattini's (or whatever his name is) exact statement, and how politics should NOT be brought up in regards to the recent events.
But, guess what? My thread was locked by CCP after about 40 posts or so because of the whackos making my point into a politcal point, which it was not.
Good Luck...dont be surprised if your post get blocked, and it will be responded by a bunch of haters out there. (Romney 2012)
Thank you Phugoid for your thoughtful response. It was also not my intention to bring politics into this post, I was merely offended by the immature statements of my elected representative. I must admit, though, that I did not anticipate so many flame posts. Furthermore, I honestly did not anticipate people flaming me for being a conservative. I'm not. While I respect the political views of my fellow citizens, I specifically composed my original post to be politically neutral.
Way to analytically read the whole post, guys.
|
EI Digin
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:00:00 -
[104]
Since you're all quitting, can I have your stuff?
|
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:24:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Mintala Arana
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: Khamelean Yes, only a small portion of the total eve population voted in the CSM elections. But the rest still voiced there opinion, which was "I don't care enough to vote". Thus giving up their chance to voice their opinions later. Them's the breaks.
Zinfandel, why are non voters allowed to post on the forums? Could it be because you are wrong?
Even if that is indeed a CCP Zinfandel alt (which I kind of doubt), the basic statement is reasonable to me. You're given an opportunity to vote. If you don't vote, that is the same as saying "I don't care about the issues". If you say "I don't care about the issues" then you have no basis for complaint about your elected representatives if the outcome on some (or all) issues isn't to your liking.
And if you do care, perhaps next time you should vote.
You don't need to own a sheep to know what not to put in it. I have no clue why this ridiculous argument keeps coming up again and again. It couldn't be more wrong if it was wired into an electric wronging machine.
|
Strecs Moliko
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:24:00 -
[106]
Originally by: EI Digin Since you're all quitting, can I have your stuff?
This.
|
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:27:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Daedalus II Edited by: Daedalus II on 13/07/2011 17:18:13
Originally by: dexington
The community clearly voiced more opinions against micro transactions then for, still the CSM chairman publicly says that the only part of the community that don't like micro transactions are loud lunatics.
Well if you call 5000 loud lunatics "the community" then yes, you're right. I however rather see the remaining 400 000 as the community.
400,000?
That is far higher than even CCP's own (often doubted) estimates of total players.
|
Koba Kyogen
The Concordiat Concordiat Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:28:00 -
[108]
/signed
CSM is a joke, has been since its inception.
Tea Party is hardly a fluke, biggest election in history? Yeah.
Koba
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.[ |
Dilaro thagriin
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:33:00 -
[109]
sorry chap, but i personally agree with the CSM.
those who quit over an internal and THEORETICAL situation, first of all severely 'jumped the gun' in relation to anything concerning the NeX store, and secondly over-reacted hugely given the current state of affairs.
people concerned that the NeX store may, at any point, have things like ships or faction ammo, all seemed to have the same argument. 'it would be really bad if you could just purchase some currency (Aurum) and use that to buy faction ships or ammo'
ok... but wait... if i wanted to, i could RIGHT NOW, go to any number of ETC sellers, and buy say, 4 ETC, convert those 4 ETC into 8 PLEX, and sell the PLEX on the market in game. that would net me somewhere in the region of 2.8 billion isk.
i could then use a portion of that isk to purchase several faction battleships, and fully fit them.
there are only two things in eve that causes the balance that CCP are going out of their way to ensure remains, Skillpoints, and numbers.
neither of those things are ever likely to end up in the NeX store. so... my opinion.. suck it up, and keep on flying. That's what i'll do.
- Dilaro
|
XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:39:00 -
[110]
The CSM was only ever as strong as the people within and as strong as CCP would allow it to be. Attributing anything to them is folly, they were created as a PR tool and have been quite effective to that end. The only person who ever represented strength in the lot of them was mynxee as she would not take **** from a soul and was not a fanboi with an agenda.
What do you expect people who get elected to do really? You are only ever going to run for it if your mania for the game exceeds that of even the biggest forum ****s here. Throw even the most meager modicum of perceived value or worth to such a position to a player and most likely it's going to rot their brains.
Why would anyone be surprised that when CCP put on the song and dance these VIP alpha nerds drop a load in their pants and comply. The only true issues behind this entire event were not pressed. It's about a lack of communication, willful deception, and a wholesale lack of respect. If you want a middle road with the players you talk to them, you share this creation with them, you share the excitement and they share it with others and grow your game.
As far as CSM taking grievance at their " Sacrifice ". Eat a bag of ****s honestly, you signed up for the ultimate fanboi job deal with what it entails and suck it up. If your lives were so much more important and this is so hard then why are you a PR tool of a game you play without hardly a benefit?
|
|
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:42:00 -
[111]
Originally by: White Tree I think some of you don't know what a straw-man argument is...
A straw man argument is, for example, suggesting that by making a comment about not being a member of a particular group meaning you shouldn't have an opinion on that particular group, the person is comparing the CSM to that group.
Now can the CSM please explain how "super veldspar" and removing ABC from wormholes is going to benefit nullsec industry?
The platform that most CSM folks were elected on was "CSM5 doesn't understand the game, only us nullsec people know how the game works". Yet here we are with a CSM who doesn't understand industry, and doesn't understand w-space. It caught you guys by surprise that ships-from-ether might disrupt industry in nullsec. It caught you guys by surprise that ABCs are available in w-space (which is basically nullsec with no sov or local, and has been that way ever since Apocrypha). You looked on in horror as CSM5 was suggesting things which would break your gameplay, and since CSM6 came in we've had the nerfing of anomalies, nerfing of jump bridges and soon the nerfing of supercapitals - not to mention the badly handled NeX store introduction and CQ implementation which CSM was aware of but did nothing to address. Nice track record!
The first comments in the May minutes were along the lines of, "yeah, nullsec's broken, we need to do something," then the issue was dropped! Why? Is it because you folk are a bunch of incompetents who won't even engage the community on the forums (witness the significant lack of CSM activity in Assembly Hall since CSM6 started) or bother to understand this game?
Perish the thought of actually putting some effort in to understanding the various issues impacting people who don't belong to your alliances! You're working on the assumption that it was your alliances who voted for you - do you even know the demographics of the playerbase who voted for you?
And the chairman doesn't even play the game? What a joke!
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:46:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Dilaro thagriin sok... but wait... if i wanted to, i could RIGHT NOW, go to any number of ETC sellers, and buy say, 4 ETC, convert those 4 ETC into 8 PLEX, and sell the PLEX on the market in game. that would net me somewhere in the region of 2.8 billion isk.
The two transactions are not the same, even from the purchaser's point of view.
With NeX the ship you buy magically appears in your hangar, wherever you are, regardless of how many reds are camping the undock.
With PLEX, you have to go to the market to buy the ship that someone else has manufactured and put up for sale. If that ship isn't for sale in your station, you can't buy it and fly it.
So even with that minor detail, the two purchasing systems are incredibly different. You're also intentionally ignoring the entire industry behind the production of faction ships which includes mission runners farming LP, T1 manufacturers producing the base product, miners supplying the manufacturers, couriers carrying goods back and forth, and the pirates/hisec wardeccers who prey on that entire chain.
You have as little understanding of the game as the current CSM.
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Ineka
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:47:00 -
[113]
The good stuff in your peep's comments is this: if the same CSm is re elected you're just a bunch of freaking useless unbrained nerds
Or:
They have it right and you're just crying nerds unable to do something else.
Keep piercing, it's so (disgusting) awesome !!
|
Dilaro thagriin
|
Posted - 2011.07.15 11:56:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Dilaro thagriin sok... but wait... if i wanted to, i could RIGHT NOW, go to any number of ETC sellers, and buy say, 4 ETC, convert those 4 ETC into 8 PLEX, and sell the PLEX on the market in game. that would net me somewhere in the region of 2.8 billion isk.
The two transactions are not the same, even from the purchaser's point of view.
With NeX the ship you buy magically appears in your hangar, wherever you are, regardless of how many reds are camping the undock.
With PLEX, you have to go to the market to buy the ship that someone else has manufactured and put up for sale. If that ship isn't for sale in your station, you can't buy it and fly it.
So even with that minor detail, the two purchasing systems are incredibly different. You're also intentionally ignoring the entire industry behind the production of faction ships which includes mission runners farming LP, T1 manufacturers producing the base product, miners supplying the manufacturers, couriers carrying goods back and forth, and the pirates/hisec wardeccers who prey on that entire chain.
You have as little understanding of the game as the current CSM.
Firstly no need for the badly veiled insult.
secondly, i was responding to a specific qualm people had brought up which was 'using RL cash to buy faction ships / ammo / modules'
try reading what i said before attempting to poke holes in it.
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 17:51:00 -
[115]
With CSM led by a goon (surrounded by a bunch of servile toadies) and the lead developer for Internet Spaceships being a goon, why is CCP doing nothing to address this clear conflict of interest?
It's not like Gianturdo even PRETENDS to represent the whole community or the game.
It's not like Touborg even PRETENDS that he didn't mean what he said in Fearless.
CCP, HTFU, get to work on a system where your customers get to vote directly on issues and publish the results in real-time (even if you plan to ignore them.) CSM has no credibility with the 90% of players who don't live in 0.0. They had all read Fearless well ahead of its public release and weren't troubled by it. They're all (with the exception of Trebor) in favor of the utterly insane wormhole nerf. If you want to keep them as a sort of Vichy government, with Alex acting as Marshal PTtain, that's fine. But the players need a voice, and it's past time pretending that this CSM is it.
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
DemetRYS
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 17:55:00 -
[116]
Definitely smells like tea party in here.
But that would make Mittens Obama. I think i'm ok with this.
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 20:57:00 -
[117]
I'm sorry, I messed up the link in this thread. Here's the link.
(P.S. Get a sense of humor.)
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:43:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Headerman
Since the CSM is suppose to be a bridge between CCP and the players, what is the point of that bridge being just one way?
A one-way bridge is still a bridge.
</cynicism>
|
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:58:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Real Poison
i'd rather shrug at designer g-string thongs for 10 plex worth of aurum. if that helps to pay for devs to get 0.0 fixes sooner.
What's it going to take to get it through your empty f***ing head that nullsec simply isn't the most important part of EVE, and that a large proportion of the player-base
A) Couldn't give two ****s about it B) Doesn't want it's game ruined to support it, even if they did?
God, seriously, what's it going to take?
Back to fluffing the man-child for you now, sycophant.
|
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:14:00 -
[120]
Originally by: baltec1
I would say the current tinfoil hat whiners are the fringe party. Also EVE has been growing over the last 2 years...
"Please show all figures for your work," as my profs used to put it...
|
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:18:00 -
[121]
I'm no fan of the CSM. But as I voted, I feel I can venture an opinion.
The CSM started as nothing more than a marketing gimmick to distract people from some real bad things that were going on at CCP at the time.
But they do now seem to take their job seriously. They are advocates for a good portion of this splintered, narrow minded and selfish player base. I would hate to be in their position, to be honest. They can't win with you lot and their frustration is starting to show. Their are as many opinionated ideas of how CCP should run their business as there are posters on this forum.
You've managed to alienate CCP and now you are dangerously close to doing the same for the people that dropped everything and went to bat for you far from their homes and livelihoods.
You people have no respect for anything and yet want to be taken seriously.
Give me a break.
Mr Epeen
|
OHU812
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 06:48:00 -
[122]
I vote to abolish Epeen... oops I meant the CSM.
We all know it's nothing more then a PR stunt and CCP has clearly without hesitation told us through actions what direction they will take with THEIR game.
The only thing to do now is use the door they gave through Incarna and move along.
Tis what I'm doing. No Mr Epeen, I will keep posting until my time runs out. Gotta get some use out of my sub since I'm not loggin in anymore.
|
Baden Luskan
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 07:52:00 -
[123]
My whole favorite part of all this is, I know of atleast 3 CSMs who do not log in anymmore (or claim the game is so bad that they refuse to).
Now, I admit these 3 CSMs have either been evicted, or close to being evicted soon, but if a person voted to represent me decides the game is no longer fun because he was on a losing side of a sov battle, then how can he properly represent myself and the others who do PLAY. Hell, I'll go one step further and say that it seems to me these 3 people wanted to get on the CSM board for the free trip to Iceland and to make sure their own personal/corp/alliance agendas are represented.
|
Cry Nova
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 08:45:00 -
[124]
It's funny how people admit to not voting in the CSM elections and now wish to uphold a "vote" of no confidence. Stop being lazy and vote in the CSM elections. If you don't want Goons in office, then conspire with your corp and alliance and put your own people in office if you think you can do a better job.
|
a newbie
d o o m
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 09:00:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
ROFL Could your obvious love for episode 1 be any clearer? No ones heard the phrase "Vote of no Confidence" outside of limited exposure and then it shows up in that debauchery of a sequel and you use it here?
I hope you at least take the time to talk to CSMs directly before coming to this pile of political waste injection into a game topic ROFL.
|
Seven Duce
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 09:39:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Seven Duce on 17/07/2011 09:39:49
Originally by: Khamelean ooh ooh, shall we play "Antagonise the fringe lunatics" or "Marginalise the whiny babies"?
So many ways to play. That's why I love eve :)
You are paying to play an obscure internet spaceship game..
Welcome to the margins of the lunatic fringe, baby..
Also, why am I not surprised that goon leadership are libtard obamadrones?
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 22:15:00 -
[127]
Over on scrapheap, CSM admit to lying in the summit devblog when they said this:
"Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins."
They now concede that it was a lie when they said it, but they can't disclose more under NDA.
Even Trebor is nothing more than a CCP shill at this point. The whole lot of them need to either resign or come out openly as being nothing more than a marketing arm of CCP.
There's a great post by Malcanis about fried chicken and watermelon, but you'll have to find it for yourself.
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:20:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Seven Duce
Also, why am I not surprised that goon leadership are libtard obamadrones?
Why am I not surprised that some ignoramus' bull**** ret4rded right-wing American politics keeps polluting this thread... Keep it out of here, troll, there are many, many other fora on which you can spew that cliche'd rubbish.
Obama is not a liberal, even by Ami "standards," by the way.
|
WisdomLikeSilence
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 08:43:00 -
[129]
+1 vote of no confidence in trolling forum *****s. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Jadecougar
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 09:25:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson Speaking of CSM, I remember how big a deal dunderheads like Jayne and Jade (okay, mostly Jade) made out of the whole 'stakeholder' status horse****. Ooooh, they're STAKEHOLDERS now! Hurray!
Jon, you're such a tool. lol!
Stakeholder status, in its truest form, means a lot. If the process would be improving with each CSM and followed up by actions, we wouldn't be having these discussions. But the misconception of the term and what people expect from the CSM as a result leads to what we have today and CSM6 being a major disappointment (as a whole). Right now, I feel shafted by the group as a whole as Mittens and co. have brought nothing but more politics into an arena that had too much of it already.
So in some strange sense of the word, I seem to (partly) agree with the village idiot.
However, I think there are more accomplishments that aren't being recognized that I don't even need to say here.
Oh, and doing away with CSM? Are you mad??
A direct contact with players the way you want will not be achievable just as it isn't in your government. It's far from perfect as we are seeing with CSM 6 but the people DID vote. It's the fault of the other over 70% of players that didn't vote why things are the way they are.
PR is PR and so what if the CSM is partly a PR thing. They are still bringing issues to the table. Whether they are the issues of the GAME as a whole versus issues from the voters that voted for you only is another question. Don't knock the process, knock the people in the process being ineffective.
Oh, and I do miss these little 'chats' ever so much. Count on ol' Jonny boy to continue ranting about things he knows or could do better than anyone else can.
|
|
Signal11th
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 15:56:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Jadecougar
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
A direct contact with players the way you want will not be achievable just as it isn't in your government. It's far from perfect as we are seeing with CSM 6 but the people DID vote. It's the fault of the other over 70% of players that didn't vote why things are the way they are.
To be honest if 70% of the playerbase don't vote then the CSM shouldn't exist, You have a minority of the playerbase voting in candiates to make or propose changes that affects all of the playerbase. Personally I can't stand the idea of the CSM, it's toothless,self-serving and in your own words doesn't have the backing of the majority of the subscribed players. Reminds me of the s hitty little shop-stewards of the 70's, didn't answer to the majority of people but still caused untold disruption to businesses just because they existed and were backed by the minority of people working at the site.
|
Jadecougar
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 18:37:00 -
[132]
Good point. Although it sounds like the US elections as well doesn't it?
People have a right and a privilege to vote and many choose not to, for whatever reason. Those that do vote...care (or cared?) a great deal. I think there are those that want to believe the CSM represents the players' best interests. I felt CSM5 did a pretty good job in getting their hands dirty and down with the players to address certain issues. We can argue whether that was "successful" but the current "Mittens speaks from the throne" approach is certainly not better!
Unfortunately politics are politics and they creep in from a very early stage and only intensify when dealing with CCP in a formal process, surely. I hear what you're saying. Trouble is, to what degree should/could we expect a voluntary group to influence a corporation with its own strategy and doesn't seem too willing to be open to change??
|
raker
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 18:51:00 -
[133]
Edited by: raker on 18/07/2011 18:56:16 Edited by: raker on 18/07/2011 18:51:41
Originally by: Cry Nova It's funny how people admit to not voting in the CSM elections and now wish to uphold a "vote" of no confidence.
I didnt vote for any CSM and feel the quote above makes a good point
I will however vote for the next one if they are still here
Having a playerbase group that can speak for the playerbase to the Devs is a good idea, I was in constant touch with Devs in another game and it worked well
Maybe the problem is that CCP don't allow the CSM's to voice the work that they do and this undermines them
Or the CSM's have thier own agenda and dont have the views of the playerbase as thier first concearn
But we do need a voice
|
Milla Lekarariba
Minmatar 28 Meows Later Infinitas Consortium
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 23:40:00 -
[134]
Originally by: I Love Boobies Total non-issue and you're going to be laughed at because you're bringing politics into the game, so don't get upset if you get trolled quite a bit, especially over a quote like this.
|
Elder Man
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 23:45:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
This is got to be the most ignorant post I've seen in a long time. Elder Man |
sacredchord
NON PROPERO
|
Posted - 2011.07.19 00:07:00 -
[136]
Right,
I'm going to bite my tongue on a lot of this.
Yes, it was probably a mistake for the CSM to say something like that. Not because of the truth or falsehood of the individual statement, but because of the impact it has on CCP's reasoning when it comes to dissatisfaction of its player base. It doesn't mean the the CSM is inadequate, it was just probably not the best time to give that piece of advice. FOOFALOOP |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.19 19:59:00 -
[137]
The CSM also lied when they said this:
"The Fearless "Greed is Good?" Leak: We accept CCP's position that Fearless is a deliberately controversial internal publication and does not represent the policy of CCP Management or of CCP Zulu, the Senior Producer of EVE Online, nor the direction of game design."
Since they rarely post here and congregate in places like failheap, if you want to give them a piece of your mind, I suggest you do it there.
Want to buy a monocle? |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:21:00 -
[138]
I haven't seen this bit from the minutes mentioned either:
"CCP began by announcing a formal organizational change that has been made within CCP. The CSM project has been moved out of the Research and Statistics department and is now alongside Customer Support, Community Management and The Volunteer Division - since all these communicate directly with customers it makes perfect sense to have them all under the same person for maximum synergy. Ivar, the current director of Customer Support is this person. Ivar is a co-founder to CCP, a former CEO of CCP, former CFO and has basically served any and all roles imaginable within CCP."
If the CSM is 'under' a person at CCP, do they represent the players?
If the CSM is a vehicle to communicate directly with customers while maximizing synergy with the dev alts, the community managers and the rest of the smoke-blowers, can any of them (even the few who don't appear to be asshats at first glance) be expected to represent the players to any meaningful degree?
What's this Ivar character like, anyway? Is he the MT Koolaid brewing bean-counter in chief?
Want to buy a monocle? |
Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:24:00 -
[139]
AkJon you've got to be the newly appointed leader of the prolific bitter-posters.
Where can I subscribe to your newsletter? I would also like to know if I can have your stuff.
|
Uuali
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:54:00 -
[140]
I'll vote no confidence because the Mittani and the CSM don't speak for me in this game nor for my political leanings which are at odds with the Mittani.
I'll also vote no confidence because the Mittani doesn't deserve the celebritydom he's getting from this either.
All these EVE celebrity putzes (you know who you/they are) can kiss my butt!
|
|
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 04:11:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Uuali I'll vote no confidence because the Mittani and the CSM don't speak for me in this game nor for my political leanings which are at odds with the Mittani.
I'll also vote no confidence because the Mittani doesn't deserve the celebritydom he's getting from this either.
All these EVE celebrity putzes (you know who you/they are) can kiss my butt!
Look at dis pubbie rage...
|
Coffe's Babe
Caldari Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 04:47:00 -
[142]
What's going on here? Can someone rate this thread so I can decide whether i should waste my time on it or not? Smart people have quotes in their sig - me |
Woodman2
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 05:02:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Captain's Courageous Edited by: Captain''s Courageous on 13/07/2011 03:37:20 Recently, the CSM has, in a publicized article, implied that the gamers who quit in protest over the recent micro-transactions controversy were as irrelevant as the Tea Party. First, that's insulting and degrading to gamers who have spent years paying for the privilege of playing EVE, and second, the implication is wrong. Over 1/4th of Americans identify themselves with the Tea Party, and the Tea Party have currently usurped the issue positions of the GOP. I believe that this level of unprofessionalism and ignorance speaks volumes about the integrity of the CSM, and must therefore request that a motion for a vote of no confidence be filed.
Signed,
Matthew L.
Original quote: "They are always going to be there. It is not relevant on any level, in any democratic process what the lunatic fringe thinks. Just look at, in America, the Tea Party, the John Birch Society, or what have you. Any of these isolated movements, on the fringes, they are very loud, but they donÆt actually impact sh*t. So, thatÆs pretty much my view of that.ö
- http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/5382/page/2
Edit: I am not supporting or defending the Tea Party. I am objecting to the CSM's statement of comparison.
Really, 1/4 of Americans identify with tea baggers? You apparently get your misinformation from fox news. BTW, how's rupert and his phone hacking gang doing?
|
Elassar
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 05:55:00 -
[144]
But carbon dioxide is harmless ...
|
Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 06:37:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Coffe's Babe What's going on here? Can someone rate this thread so I can decide whether i should waste my time on it or not?
Bad thread full of people who don't understand the role of the CSM. You can safely skip it.
|
Resmand Fredricks
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 07:17:00 -
[146]
A couple of things that I have noticed about this thread:
The Mitani does not play the game yet has a voice as the primary voice of players in the game? Wouldn't that be like a person getting elected President but not living in the country he is supposedly representing?
The political stuff actually in my opinion does have a place here as the CSM are "Elected officials" representing the playerbase. Is all of it important and relative to the situation probably not.
As for a "Vote of No Confidence" how do you vote out some one who is working for CCP. As being under a team member of CCP is in a sense working for the company and they recieve the benefits of free trips to Iceland to have these summits.
In my personal opinion the CSM does serve as simply a meat shield for CCP but every company has one.
I believe that someone had the right idea. The amount of power held by each person on the CSM should represent where they live in EVE space. There should be a restriction on how many people from each space have seats on the board and it should be directly tied to the amount of people that live (spend 60% or more time) in said space. People wishing to represent their chosen area of living (in space)should be voted on only by the people living in said space. Then CCP could make a ballot to represent each space. I know this idea requires a lot of additional coding and tweaking but could resolve the ultimate issue. Which is people not feeling like their voice is being heard.
As an example we will use Jack StPatrick. Jack lives in null sec over the past year he has been in null sec for 80 percent of his in game time. He wishes to run for a position on the CSM. He can only be voted for by other people who have lived in null sec for 60% of their game time. There are lets say 100,000 players that fall into this ability out of the 400,000 players in the game total if we split the seats up evenly you could have 4 or 8 seats. He at that time would be shooting for either 1 of only one seat or 1 of 2 seats. The area of space that has the most players in it would have the larger amount of players based on in game statistics. This could and I emphasize COULD help out with the issue of not feeling like you are being heard. A way to get more people to vote is to give a pop up for one week in game before you can log all the way in that asks you to vote for one of the people in your living space once you vote the pop ups stop.
I know its not the most accurate but I hope this gives some ideas that could be used in the future.
I also know that some of you feel like the CSM does not actually have any power I would look to people that actually have power in the game to better define what powers the CSM actually has if any, or if they are just there to look pretty. In that case I am sure there are a few women that could fill the job much more effectively.
|
Sully Kajahazuum
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 07:55:00 -
[147]
CSM only gets 10% of the players to participate in voting anyways. Right there is your vote of no-confidence. This, however, is just a giant waste of time.
|
Himnos Altar
Gallente Daisy Cutter's
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 08:55:00 -
[148]
wow.....why the hell do I even come on the forums?
I need to go bleach my brain.
but to the person/people calling for a party system with a *guaranteed* number of seats in each CSM (well, in the first place, the first person forgot WH space lol.....or are WHers to be lumped in with independents, then?).
Also....LOL
Rep/Dems aren't GUARANTEED spots. it's just that there's *usually* not a strong enough third party out there that spends enough money, etc, to take those seats away from the reps/dems.
With small exceptions like electing a pro wrestler as governor of MN, who literally climbed out his window so he could make his own budget.....(Jesse Ventura, for the 99.99999% who didn't know/don't really give a **** about this even now).
*knows that people will ignore this post, or just loudly complain about how stupid it is*
Yes, I am just a layman when it comes to politics. you caught me. I DON'T know fancy words or intricate political machinations. just a dude that forgot that wandering into forums of any kind generally leads to brain bleaching.
|
Aeropride
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 09:48:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Ramma Lamma DingDong Edited by: Ramma Lamma DingDong on 13/07/2011 09:42:28 Educated, intelligent Americans (granted it may seem as if there are few of them) don't take the teabaggers seriously at all.
I mean come on, it's a party that supports people such as Michelle Bachman, a candidate who doesn't know the difference between John Wayne and John Gacy and who along with her husband runs a clinic that "converts" homosexuals.
She warned us all that The Lion King was "g a y" propoganda. She claimed abolishing the minimum wage would create jobs. She called Carbon Dioxide, "harmless." She suggested that Melissa Ethridge, a well known lesbian artist "repent" after getting cancer.
Sadly, there is a portion of American society that buys a ticket to ride this crazy train but the majority are just watching and waiting for the inevitable crash. The Republicans bought a ticket early on and are currently trying to get off at the next stop after realizing the depth of the crazy (and believe me, it is deep.)
its hard to take people seriously who use a childish name like teabaggers to refer to the tea party but thats just me...got some video of those comments she made?
|
grunf Ijonen
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 11:15:00 -
[150]
/signed
4 channel kids should not be allowed in the csm! |
|
grunf Ijonen
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 11:23:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Ajunyx
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 13/07/2011 13:13:12
Originally by: White Tree I think some of you don't know what a straw-man argument is...
are you trying to say that stated premise fail to support the proposed conclusion?, or are you the one who don't know what a straw-man argument is...
He's desperately trying to make himself right by trying to sound clever. He could just say, "Sorry, I decided not to read that but react to words that were not written", but nope, he's telling us that we're the stupid ones for not being smart enough to recognise the true genius behind what he said.
I know White Tree and I can say he probably is smarter than you.
As smart as a scammer can be..
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:03:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Aeropride its hard to take people seriously who use a childish name like teabaggers to refer to the tea party but thats just me...got some video of those comments she made?
Two points:
1. Teabaggers coined their own name.
2. I guess you don't take Republicans seriously, then. (Since they stopped calling it the Democratic Party a long time ago.)
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2011.07.24 20:05:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Wangston Hughes lol
-
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |